Historical vs Modern Instrument: Playing on a Pleyel - 1898
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 พ.ค. 2024
- On this channel I am going to share my experience and thoughts about fingerings, interpretation, fingertechniques and playing piano in general. If you have any questions or ideas please leave it in the comments!
Link to the Chopin recordings:
• Musikpause digital | C...
More on TH-cam:
/ @anniquegottler5542
More on Instagram:
anniquegoet...
Support me on Patreon:
/ anniquegoettler
Visit my website:
www.annique-piano.com/
Thank you very much! Stay safe, stay healthy and stay in the Heart of the Keys!;P
#piano #pianotutorial - เพลง
Hi everyone! It's been a while since the last video - sorry for that:) Have you ever played on a historical instrument? Tell me in the comments!
Here is the link to the whole recording at Landesmuseum Stuttgart : th-cam.com/video/y-T9JoDNPeY/w-d-xo.html
Habe noch nie auf einem historischen Instrument im engeren Sinne gespielt. Bemühe mich aber, auf möglichst vielen akustischen Klavieren und Flügeln sowie Oberklasse-Digitalpianos (ab 5000 EUR) zu spielen. Das verschafft mir einen ganzheitlichen Überblick und erfrischt mich ungemein. 😊
Well not sure if that counts, but the grand in my old "Kinderzimmer" :) is easily 70 years old or older. Still has ivory keys.
Ich habe einmal auf einem ca. 100 Jahre alten (also frühes 20. Jh.) Klavier mit Elfenbeintasten die Chopin Nocturne Op 48 Nr 1 in c-Moll gespielt - und schon das war eine Offenbarung, wie viel leichter der Schlussteil von der Hand ging - endlich war es möglich, flüssig und mit weniger Kraftaufwand schnell die Akkorde zu spielen und sich voll auf die Melodie zu konzentrieren, die sich fast von selbst hervorgehoben hat, nachdem ich normalerweise ja auf einem modernen Klavier übe. Auf einem noch älteren Instrument aus dem 19. Jahrhundert zu spielen und vielleicht gar auf einem Flügel - das wäre natürlich ein absoluter Traum! Danke für das Video!
Den Flügel in der Aula unserer Schule, an der ich arbeite, darf man mittlerweile bestimmt auch als historisch bezeichnen! ;-)
The recording is great! Loved all four etudes and specially nº2 and 4. Also loved the fact that you follow Chopin's manuscript to Stichvorlage in op. 10 nº3 that has some harmonic differences in the middle secction. Greetings and many congratulations.
Classical musicians are from a different planet. Every time I see any performing classical artist, I'm in awe because they live in an alternate universe.
Happy Birthday Chopin!
I can see why Chopin loved Pleyel
A deaf guy writes a piece on a differently constructed instrument over 200 years ago, and now you are beating yourself up over what exactly would please his ears. Man, I want to have that kind of impact on the world. That was a beautiful sounding historic instrument and a great piece by Luddy van B.
Given a choice I would always pick a Pleyel, but an 1840s Pleyel like the ones Chopin played. Much narrower keys and shallower key travel. Chopin also played an Erard but only when he was too ill to play the Pleyel. The Erard was more forgiving. There is a pianist/technician in Malta who actually owns Chopin’s own piano. The Pleyel is tuned well tempered not equal tempered like a modern piano. It sounds amazing. I love your channel and your virtuosity as a classical pianist. Thank you.
It's hard to find out what Beethoven intended because we don't know what he actually heard himself when playing.
😂😂😂👌
Alles Gute zum Geburtstag, Herr Chopin!
I jealous, I haven't yet had the chance to play on a piano that old. But thanks to you I can at least get an impression of what that is like. Thank You :)
That Tommy Wiseu reference was golden
For me the sound of this piece is an invitation. It makes me feel like I'm out in a beautiful valley on a spring day. Then all of a sudden among the sound of the birds and the trees I hear a beautiful sound across the valley, echoing. I then go and try to find the source of the beautiful sound until I get closer and closer to the source. I don't think of a church but maybe a village hall or a private residence and the player is on their own, at one with the music and oblivious to anything around them.
Unusual double piano made by Pleyel, called Duo-Clave. It looks long so it could be a concert model. The pianos shares a single large soundboard which I’m sure makes it sound different than a regular concert piano. I’m curious to know how it sounds with the lids closed vs with it open.
I had the opportunity to play Horowitz’s Steinway. The action was the smoothest and most responsive to subtle dynamic changes that I have ever experienced. It was like playing on smooth skin. Loved it.
interesting. I am a pianotuner and I often remark that a lot of tonal and technical experience of the past in piano building has dissapeared in the modern piano. It is nice to hear that the Beethoven pedalstill works on a late 19th century instrument and not on a early 21th century instrument.
Me: Wow! Angelic, delicate, beautiful! 🥺
Annique: Dirty... filthy... dirty dirt still dirt!!
In all seriousness, great insight and a fascinating take on achieving the sound effect of the time period in which the piece was composed 👏
What are the benefits of a modern pedal and heavier keys over the piano you played in the museum? It sounds like modern piano's are not really an improvement, rather a hindrance.
J'adore vos pantoufles ! I love your slippers !
Nice Detail are the stylish slippers in the Pedal window frame, I love them
3:15 I DID NAAAAHT
AND AGAIN A MINUTE LATER
Y E S S S S S
You were really playing a museum grade piano which was really a good piano ☺️ Piano has a more delightful sound in an open space than a small room. I once played an old (but very well maintained) Steinway made in mid 1800 in a castle. It sounded very authentic like a piano that I had never heard or played!
I think that playing on historical instruments allows us to understand better the intentions of the composers, and to use the capacity of our modern instruments to follow them and inhance our interpretations. (I'm a violinist and I truly understand Mozart's spiccato only once I had the chance to play with a classical bow)
Being an organist, this was very educative. Thanks!
Interesting video and instrument analysis. I believe at one point, text appeared stating that the Pleyel is even too modern to correctly reproduce Beethoven, it makes me wonder what his piano would have sounded like when he played this piece. Thanks for sharing this video, very entertaining.
Excellent video, and thank you! Comparison of instruments is always interesting, but I don't have a historical instrument to play, so I can only apply what I learn on my Yamaha AvantGrand. For me, though, the heart of this video was the pedaling, in relationships to the score, the effect you want to create, the composer's intent as well as the range of possibilities that were available historically, compared to modern instruments. Every piece that uses any pedaling at all poses these questions, whether it's Beethoven or Chopin or Debussy or Philip Glass. Also, the score may have no pedal indications at all, or the pedaling may have been added by an editor. There's really no substitute for listening critically to your own playing, and to other performances. This aspect of listening was the key to making this video so good. Thank you!
Wow, i really enjoyed that “half pedal” technique! It was quite like listening to the Pleyel (what a wonderful, sweet sound, btw!). I used to play a 1903 Bechstein Mod D. As you said, much lighter keys on these pianos. The Bechstein especially was so light that I found difficult to play p or pp phrases. It was the opposite of the Playel about the pedal, instead: the sound was sustained long and magnificently (quite difficult to get the right “half pedal” level). That Bechstein was a romantic piano, in a perfect, personal style.
Please, more videos about historical instruments! And keep it going, I really like your videos.
You play so beautifully regardless of the piano.
Sounds amazing! I love how you manage it!
Stuttgart will always have a special place in my heart. Such a wonderful place for music. :)
Love your videos! They are very educational and entretaining, never stop making videos!
I was thinking if we can go back a bit and have a 1 min, 10 min , 1 hour challenge of Passacaglia in G-minor by Handel!!! It would be charming!!!❤️❤️
Wieder mal sehr interessant und super gemacht! Weiter so!!
Very interesting, thanks! Can't wait the next video.
Love your sensitive playing! Congratulations!
Nice sharing! Knowing that Chopin has played on this Brand is even more incredible !
I also have an late 1800 right up pleyel wasn't tuned for about 45 years and after that it was only half a tone out of tune 🤯.
Absolutely loved it, super high, ivory keys and beautiful woodwork.
You are very clear. Great video. Historical instrument + you are magical!
Grateful that I came across this channel.❤ Loved your content and subscribed after watching the first video. I am a beginner pianist trying to learn classical and your videos are quite motivating for me. Especially, I loved your 1 min v/s 10 min v/s 1 hour videos.
Please keep making such videos. Would have loved to support you on patreon but I am still underage to do so 🙃.
I would be obliged if you suggest a few pieces for beginners.
Danke 🙏 und gleich mal Daumen hoch! 👍 Jetzt das Video gemütlich schauen und sodann an das eigene Klavier setzen. 😊
I like your video. It is wonderful to understand the historic instrument and bring the effect to the modern. Thank you!
😄 Ich musste erstmal über Deine Puschen schmunzeln. Vielen Dank, dass Du mir mit dem Video eine Frage beantwortet hast, die ich mir schon lange gestellt hatte.
Beautiful and interesting video. Congrats.
Its really amazing how pianos are changed thorughout the history. It was really entertaining to listen to, how would you recreate the atmosphere for this type of sounds. I am not a pianist, i played the cello for 7 years, but this stuff is really intrigueing to learn bye musicians such as yourself! Thank you. Keep it up! :)
I really enjoyed....excellent video.... and you....always smile!!!! thanks a lot for all !!!!
1:11 you sang that "thumb's up" :D
3:15 you’re tearing me apart, Annique!
And eventually the question would be why the modern actions are sooo heavy ? I have two pianos : a Yamaha C5 from 1991, and a Pleyel F from 1938, and the difference is considerable.
Hi, such great video for the comparison! I enjoyed the play very much!
Greeting from Cologne :)
I have played on a late 19th century Erard grand, which actually has parallel strings instead of crossed. A truly magnificent instrument, beautiful sonority, very clear and so easy to play on (very light keys also). I played Ravel's Toccata, perfect piece for the piano too! If you are used to heavy modern instruments, playing a historical instrument is so much easier. But you cannot force the instrument (e.g. playing too loud, it distorts the sound too much IMO). Also, the parallel strings of the Erard avoid the strings interfering with each other, so harmonies are even more clear when using the pedal. Playing a historical instrument is highly recommended, if you play the right pieces on it (so no, no Rach ;-)
I imagine a house with a garden in the spring, so all windows and doors wide open. The music from the piano in the house just mixes up with several bird songs and lightens my thoughts. I feel home but also the whole world.
Maybe your halfway pedaling is a quite good idea to match the sound.
😊
Hard to compare at the moment - because the museum place had a heap of reverberation or something - so the sounds started getting mashed together. But back at the moment, there's less mixing/mashing of the sounds. Much much clearer at the home - like 6:38
Amazing video
Wow those are very beautiful piano i wish i could buy one.
Annique is pure perfection
Great video!! Greetings from Brazil. =)
Loving your thoughtful discussion and elegant playing!
The Pleyel seems to offer a lot more on this occasion. There are similar gains to me made on the violin, even without going all the way to a 'baroque' instrument. Gut strings were quite common through mid-20c, and the best early-19c French bows were more flexible than the Sartorys and similar sticks that are preferred by many today. Heifetz insisted that his students use unwrapped A and D strings, and Oscar Shumsky made his stuents use an unwrapped A. It does change how you approach the creation of sound.
What a beautiful delightful lady! I enjoyed your video very much. The Pleyel is beautiful instrument and sounds wonderful
Loved the video! I would love more of this where you compare your practice modern instrument with historical instruments side by side. Now, I have a question. Why does the pedal behave differently between the two instruments? What has fundamentally changed for this to be this way?
This is a very good question! I will try to talk with a specialist about the mechanics and construction of the modern piano and the differences to the historical instruments in another video :)
The tone on the old piano didn't last that long so it would mix less with other tones when the pedal is down.
I don't think it's the pedal itself which changes but it's the whole structure of the 2 instruments, how they're built. Their sound levels, their resonances, are very different, modern instruments are "louder", "fater" and resonnate longer than the ancient ones.
Like the difference in the weight of the keys Annick pointed out. To get a bigger sound, move longer strings with resonate longer in a stiffer structure in order to be played in a large concert hall and not in the ballroom of a mansion, you somehow need more energy.
I have a similar Pleyel from XIXth century (but smaller) and a new Yamaha. The Pleyel is amazing for classical and Chopin, but for Prokofiev, Skriabin and Ravel it isn't very good. They sound much better and softer on Yamaha. When I am switching pianos I always need some time to get used to another one again. It's very interesting.😄
Good points about the pedal. Seems to me that the mid-range/baritone notes are also noticeably louder on the C2; the net effect being that holding the pedal down makes things sound "mushier" more quickly. Your remedy to pump the pedal more is exactly how to compensate for it. Thanks for demonstrating/explaining it so clearly.
It’s a beautiful instrument! I like very much the comparaison with the modern piano !
Hi Annique! Super interesting video! I recently purchased my first grand piano (a new Kawai GX-2) and am having difficulty practicing Chopin's Etudes on it because of its heavy touch (currently dealing with hand/arm pain). Since I do not have any comparison basis, would you please opine on the touch on Kawai grand pianos and how they compare to the other grands you have played (e.g. Steinways, Yamahas)? May I ask what is your practice piano? Thank you very much!
I've played on two grand pianos dating back to 1900 and 1905. They didn't look like the pleyel though. They were shaped closer to the modern grand. I can't remember the brand names on them. I do remember they had real ivory keys and sounded wonderful.
I have two historic instruments, both Blüthner, from 1893 and 1912, and they are both very similar. What you're saying about the touch and the pedaling is absolutely true, even though my instruments have been fully rebuilt, that character they have is something innate in the build structure. Although I think new pianos are "better", I wonder if we've lost something in the pursuit of perfection. I actually plan to buy a new piano in the next 12 - 24 months (in addition to, not instead of my Blüthners!)
"As you can hear it is still pretty dirty"
Me as a jazzer: well...no
Wow that Pleyel sounds so much better (for me) for Beethoven. Cool. But then - nice pedalling on your practicing piano. I would like it a little dryer at the end, just a little
Interesting video thank you - nice to see the virtues of older instruments being appreciated - have you tried the light touch of a Square piano?
With the pedal engaged it's sounds dreamier... I loved it on the Pleyel! I think at this point Beethoven was pushing the boundaries of "classical", und Schubert genauso! We have a Steinway B from 1898 with the original soundboard, ivory and ebony keys and moving parts. It has new hammers and dampers... Es klingt eigentlich viel warmer als die Steinway Flügel von Heute und ich finde es eine richtige Freude darauf zu spielen. It sounds more like the Steinways one hears in pre-war recordings (from Rachmaninoff, Moiseiwitsch and other in the 1930s). The action is actually very sensitive and on the light side, the black keys don't stick up as high as with modern pianos - and I personally really like that. Der Klang hat auch viele Farben und Schattierungen ...eher wie bei Bösendorfer, besonders in der Mittellage und in der Tiefe. Danke für die sehr unterhaltsame (und lehrreiche) Videos! LG
Wow, the Pleyel sounds really soft. It's nice. What is the reason of the diferencies in the pedaling? (Sorry for my bad english).
The dirty pedal issue is a very good point. I’m learning Chipin’s Polonise in G Minor right now and when I try to pedal all across the piece it just horrible because of the pedal itself. I like to play it without pedal because it sounds cleaner. Disclamer: I have an electric piano, though .
It was a wonderful video!
Hola de ARGENTINA me gusta es maravilloso!!!...
I’ll soon replace my Gaveau upright piano from 1913 with a 1/2 Erard from… 1914 ! The old Erard needs some work, but the keyboard is so light !!! It’s really impressive, much much lighter than modern piano
Hey! So I loved seeing that Pleyel sing! But that top you're wearing the orange color shirt if you don't mind me asking where did ya get that?! It's soooo cute! Please tell me 🥰🤩😍
I've played on a 1873 Bösendorfer, but I was a kid and don't remember it very well; all I can tell is that it couldn't be quite properly tuned. However pedalling was not a problem on it (I used to pedal a quite dirty at that time and it didn't sound dirty). The keyboard was very light also. On modern pianos I became a "pedal nazi" so I watch out my legato even when pedalling, cause I prefer to restrict the pedal to the minimum necessary and even use "finger pedalling" rather than the sustain pedal. I find your half-pedal solution works well, but now I am using a digital (I'm not a professional, I have neighbors and can only practice/play the evening/night) and half-pedalling is not so relevant on a digital. I think I'll eventually upgrade to a Yamaha N1X, half pedalling works well on it.
That was an out of the ordinary Pleyel because it actually is a double piano! First time I see one of these!- I literally grew up on an Erard; 50+ years ago they were simply sturdy old pianos that were cheap to buy and weren't easy to kill... ideal for a young student on a budget; not the coveted collectibles they are now. And I also had opportunity to play on some vintage Pleyels which I remember being more mellow, and "sing" better than Erards. I still miss the characterful basses of those French oldies, especially the Erard! Thank you for your thought on pedal technique, that was for me the most interesting aspect.
Off topic, "Fruit Box" is a funny name for a historical piano museum! How come? 😃
I love your music.
By the way I hope I can play to a historical piano. I would love to give a try on a grand piano even though I am just a beginner.
I could listen to you talk for hours. 🤗
Can you play maple leaf rag?
So if historical pianos have a much lighter touch, and that's a beneficial aspect, why were pianos changed? Also, what caused the change in the pedal and was that intentional or not?
I do like the sound of the historical piano better, at least as well as I can tell over the internet.
Modern pianos are made for bigger concert halls. Most of Chopin piano works for instance were composed for a small room with some friends around, not the Carnegie Hall. However, I agree that it should be possible to purchase a "new" Pleyel or at least a Steinway, a Kawai or a Yamaha made for smaller rooms, with less intense pedals and a clearer sound. They make different-size pianos but they are all using the same mechanical system, which is different from the old Pleyel from the 1800s and 1900s.
@@leobourbonnais Thanks for the insight!
No se nada de musica clasica pero tu frescura hace que llege a mi corazon
muy cierto
Ich liebe deine Videos 💖
There is an important difference between paralell strings and crossed strings. Modern pianos have only crossed strings. They make bass notes more brilliant because there is an interference with then strings below. But the sound is not very clear. In the paralell strings, that are the standard in the 19th century, bass notes are not too brilliant. You can play counterpoint and hear each voice very clear, with independece like a choir. I have a 1905 Erard and is a pleasure to play it, it has a very romantic sound, ideal for Chopin, Schumann, etc. Old pianos have their own personality, moderns are all too similar and they are not better than older ones.
Very interesting video :) my 300 euro keyboard sure doesn’t sound like that haha
Really good comparison! Also, some of the historical pianos seem to have slightly less “distance” when fully pressing into the keys.
If i had either of them, i would be so happy
It is fascinating that this Pleyel is *not* straight-strung but has shorter enough of a sustain that the Waldstein Rondo is still OK with the original pedaling; I found out on YT that an Italian and French nickname of the sonata is L'Aurora / L'Aurore
I have played a good sampling of the instruments at the Frederick Historic Piano Collection in Massachusetts, their 1846 Pleyel, on which I attempted the Chopin Op 62 Nr. 2 Nocturne, was by far the hardest to control, and sounded close to the ideal that Massimiliano di Mario prefers (an example being the Op 27 Nr 2 Nocturne played by the wonderful Els Biesemans here: th-cam.com/video/WWKl6e5BU8s/w-d-xo.html). Didn't have time in my visit to get to the Graf which has been my favourite both under Brautigam's hands / McNulty's craftmanship and Staier's hands / Christopher Clarke's masterful restoration
As you can probably tell I think hearing anything written by Mendelssohn or earlier on the modern Steinway-type instruments is a pain :P
Hi Annique, regarding the use of open pedal for a long sequence, you might want to look into Haydn's 60th sonata, first movement (1795) and Clementi's 17th ,1st movement and 24th , 1st movement (1798, if my information is correct). Beethoven doesn't seem to have 'invented' this technique. The effect on a Viennese or indeed a Clementi pianoforte of his own make is striking. Half pedalling is not uncommon since the late 19th Century, so yes, a good solution on a later piano. Cheerio, Willem
The oldest piano I played was a Baldwin piano that not tuned. I like the modern sound but love hearing the older pianos played.
You could take part in the Chopin competition!
Nice house slippers!
Fantastisch! Dieses Video ist eine Offenbarung! Ich hatte bisher nie über die Unterschiede in der Gewichtung der Tastaturen und der Effektstärke von Pedalen bei Instrumenten aus verschiedenen Epochen nachgedacht! Wie viel Gramm beträgt denn der Tastendruck (von/bis - je nach Tonhöhe) bei einem historischen Flügel im Gegensatz zu einem neuen Instrument? Und warum hat sich wohl die Mechanik und damit das Spielgefühl und die technischen Anforderungen im Laufe der Zeit so geändert?
Good insights, aside from the difference in playability I think we can pretty much eat the cake with current pianos as well.
I think Estonia and Petrof to a certain degree have the characteristics of the old Pleyel yet with modern benefits.
❤❤Me encanta esta mujer ❤❤
for this particular piece I would maybe use a sostenuto-pedal, though it is not the same, it might work in this case. what do you think?
What age constitutes historical? My piano is a 1903 blüthner and I’m not sure if it counts, does it?
Lovely sound the Pleyel has for that 3rd mvt section even if Beethoven wasn't on a semi-modern Pleyel. One of the most uplifting Beethoven sonatas, I love it! How about half-pedalling on our modern grands? Depending on the instrument and pedal regulation there might be a spot where it works better than breaking the texture. Obviously in your living-room the pedal breaks sound too much, but maybe in a not too dry hall it really helps!
Ahh, so I wrote that right before you answer that question 😆
I played a bunch of historical instruments at the now no longer existing Finchcock's Museum just before it closed. Including instruments of the exact type Beethoven owned and composed on. A Conrad Graf, Joseph Fritz, Anton Walter (a square though, not sure if Beethoven had a square, i think his was a grand), John Broadwood. Really interesting. Also unusual to have to use the knee-levers. The guys working with Chris Maene have some interesting vids experimenting with Beethoven and designing what they think he had made for his piano, a big concave kind of horn to amplify the sound, as his hearing went.
Would love to have some historical instruments in the home, spend more time with them.
Good queen💪
Woow so old! 0:28
Is this orgue behind the piano? Wow, how I dreamed of seeing him with my own eyes one day before in my country there are 3 and it is difficult for me to see them I will be lucky if we go on a trip to the Sacred Hearts School, the branch in which the orgue is.
I have a 1940's Pleyel and Iove it
I experience the opposite. My (upright) piano is from 1894 and the keys are really heavy. It's probably just tight bushings. But if I compare that to my mum's 1980's (upright) piano; hers is so much easier to play delicately.
I still really enjoy the (slightly out of tune) sound and timbre of my piano. I love playing it!
Super interessant, z.B. das mit dem Pedal. Aber ich frage mich: Warum haben Klaviere heute generell nicht mehr den leichteren Anschlag? Je vollgriffiger, umso anstrengender...
My piano is kind of historical: it was my grandmother's piano and was built in a small factory in Berlin (A. Jaschinsky) at the beginning of the 20th century. Its pedal is very, very soft, and the keys are lighter than my teachers piano. When I was a teenager, a friend of mine had a Pleyel: it was a very small piano with a beautiful sound!