Nice video, I didn't even really ever consider the fact that every ending does have V ending up SoulKilled. That does make for some interesting options for a sequel game. I am curious though, if they did make a CP2077:2, what ending do you think they'd go forward with? First question do you think we'd even play as V? Or would we be a new character all together? Because here's my thoughts on things. Assuming they set it up, where the has it's own, hard coded canon, and it doesn't just pull save file data from your first game, I think the ending where V goes to space is probably the most versatile ending for CDPR to work with. For multiple reasons. 1. It leaves the events in Arasaka mostly in mystery, as the only person who knows what really happens, is V (since he didn't take anyone with him on that suicide mission). So you can spin the urban legends however you want, with nobody to contradict the myths and tall tales. 2. It allows you to have the game be based on the space station, assuming you play as V again, and basically have it be like Bioshock. An outsider infiltrates an isolated, uber-elite, dystopian "ideal city", and has to carve a path through it to get to his objective. I personally don't want that version, but I could see it working from a video game perspective. 3. Assuming we don't play as V (my personal preference), you can set up V as an NPC that the new character could encounter. Similar to running into other Night City legends like Rogue, etc. Or you could just not have them be in it at all. 4. Since the Don't Fear the Reaper ending doesn't mandate anyone's death, you could have the entire cast of characters return in some capacity. Johnny can show back up as an AI with Alt. All of the rogue's gallery of allies are, in theory, all alive, and can show up for cameos. They don't have to write in some storyline for the characters to show back up, or die off camera, etc. Panam could return with the Nomads for some reason, Judy is potentially still in the city, or could also return. Though both of them could simply be a distant contact ally. Rogue could still be giving out jobs as a fixer, etc. It's the only ending that I can think of, where any and all supporting cast could carry over into the new game. Plus it also ends with V still in control of his own meat suit. So if they do go down the route of allowing V to save himself for realzies, there isn't any narrative gymnastics that need to happen. Johnny's already been split out and is alive and well (in theory), V is on a ticking clock sure, but, hey he's still got control of his own body. It's the least chaotic ending, in regards to the state of the cast of characters. So that's my thought on which ending they would carry over, in this theoretical sequel.
I always thought this was possible. I actually thought why didn’t they make a synthetic body as an alternative instead of a biological body. Both live and become legends.
so you first say that once you're soulkilled, you're dead, just a piece of information (Ok I thought the same) but then you also say that if you use that piece of data correctly, it's suddenly good? You really believe that?
just to explain myself (in case that either you don't understand me or I didn’t fully understand which V you thought of) as I see it, once you die, you die and soulkiller kills you. the only thing that can be immortal is that piece of data of yours that soulkiller creates but that's your copy not you (The original V (before the heist went down the drain) is dead no matter what after he gets soulkilled)
So in a perfect scenario, V would give their body to Johnny, then ask Alt to make a relic with their Engram. Then Johnny would try to raid Biotechnica’s facility and produce a clone of V. Given V’s reputation they would get a lot of help, from Rogue to the Aldecados, or even hire some mercs. That way both V and Johnny gets a second chance in life.
I'm not an expert on cloning, but wouldn't a functioning clone take years to develop and gestate to form a perfect clone? Sure you could break into a facility and demand they make a clone, but Corps don't take kindly to being bossed around and BIOTECHNICA is no doubt packing with guards and their own private military. Not to mention they sign partnerships with nomads who could serve as mercs (especially ones that don't like the Aldecaldos) to protect their assets Heck there's a DLC idea. Johnny Silverhand as V (or a different character) learns that Biotechnica has the means to do it, then in response calls up Rogue or whoever then has to do a few hours of tasks to prep a break in at their cloning facility, steal one of the cloning vats and bring it to the Afterlife to create the clone of V. A secret SECRET ending perhaps for those who went with the "Don't fear the Reaper" ending.
There is no so saving V unless it was the Devil ending. As Alt has said, the name soulkiller is accurate. It kills you and replaces you with an engram.
@@wdf70 By 2077, cloning technology's been around for a LONG time, in the Cyberpunk universe. Cloning humans was a thing way before Biotechnica did their thing witn implanting constructs into clones. However, iirc from the p&p sources, those human clones were so cancer-riddled they all found an early, painful end. I can see other big corps giving up on the idea of cloning whole humans after that, dismissing it as too costly. I mean, it's probably fine by them to use such clones as short-lived cannon fodder in their armed conflicts but even there, it'll be cheaper to just use normal humans and replace whatever they lose in battle with (experimental) cyberware until they either get killed or turn cyberpsycho ... Biotechnica, however, stuck with it. Now just look at how fast technology advances nowadays. A LOT can happen in almost 60 years (Biotechnica made their big discovery in 2020, game is set in 2077). I wouldn't put it past them that they've als been working on a way to clone humans faster, WITHOUT all those health issues early clones had. I also wouldn't consider it impossible that they've already found a way or are close to finding one. I can imagine that, if that's the case, they still would keep it hush-hush to avoid a public outcry (I can imagine the Vatican would have a thing or two to say about humans playing God and we mustn't forget that, as by lore, lots of people turned back to religion when things started falling apart). There also might be ethical concerns or it might even be outright outlawed to clone full human bodies (unless, maybe, it's for "organ harvesting" but even then, it would be more economical to clone just the requred organ). Or, of course - profits. They don't want anyone to catch on to what they're doing so they can reap ALL the profits. Just imagine - combining cloning tech and the Relic tech. There you go - immortality. There'd be a LOT of money in that.
Is funny, when I first played the game and learned of the whole "Ya got 6 months, kid" ending, my first thought was "Cool, we raid Biotechnica next, right?" *CDPR does the Anakin stare* "We raid Biotechnica next, *right?*"
@@mmyr8ado.360 Aren't some of the greenhouses populated in-game currently if you go out of bounds? I swear I saw some clips of dudes in hazmat suits inside them with like, human cloning pods or something
Since biotechnica is mentioned by the Aldecaldos I always thought that that might have been the direction of the nomad ending. Since V and Panam discussed trying something else to save V.
I find it so interesting that in the end where Saburo overwrites Yorinobu, Arasaka doesn't hide this fact. I thought they would want to hide something so horrific like killing your child by replacing their personality with yours, it just shows the state of the world.
And there were many people against it. But Saburo shrugged it off as a consensual donation, like giving a piece of your liver or a kidney. I call bulls***, though. Yorinobu would never agree to give up his body to his father.
@@SoulOfJustice1994 Yikes, this explains a lot about Yorinobu's behaviour. He isn't acting out or hating on his father for some arbitrary reason.. he must've learned of the plans his father had to snatch his body lol.
@@anikarobinson4023 that is a small part sure but read through Yorinobu's entry on the wiki. Basically Yorinobu was in his young age taught by a teacher who instead of giving them "Saburo is a lord of all" taught him and his classmates(?) to think rationally and doubt and question stuff but then eventually they found out what the guy was doing so they (Arasaka) got him killed and made a cover story. But Yorinobu wasn't stupid enough to believe that which created in him a hatred for the corpo. Eventually he learnt more about the company and learnt about the horrors that happened and thus formed Black Lotus with a bunch of other extremely influential companies and decided to destroy them through direct force but that eventually failed so going on and on in the story he finally decided to beat his father at the game and destroy Arasaka from within and that's why he decided to sell the Relic V2; to make money and also to make the chances of Relic being used only to resurrect his father
@@SoulOfJustice1994 of course not. but he has the PR department of a megacorp behind him, not to mention a private army. who will disagree? who actually CARED about Yorinobu enough to stick up for him post mortem?
@@alexsolomon8127 - I would feel sorry for Yorinobu if he hadn't started this chain of events in the first place. All the same, I do not wish his fate on anybody. At least V had the freedom to look for help and Johnny, in the end, did not want a new body at the cost of another life. Yorinobu would have been put in isolation while Saburo's engram slowly but surely took over everything.
The Biotechnica angle would make such a great material for a follow up expansion for the game. Especially if going through Temperance ending, it would be amazing to see reformed Johnny a few months or few years after the ending, returning to NC because Engram V has found a way through the Blackwall (which is completely possible, given much of the Blackwall's effectiveness is just Netwatch propaganda), contacting Johnny like Alt once did, informing him about a way with Biotechnica and asking him to return the favor (and if you did the Temperance ending, you know Johnny would absolutely drop everything for V to help them). And it would be so good and surreal at the same time, possibly seeing both Original V Johnny and Engram Clone V together in the end. But, of course, this is Cyberpunk we are talking about. There are no happy endings.
Didn’t Johnny become ‘part of’ alt like the other engrams stored in mikoshi? I’m not entirely sure what that entails, but it doesn’t sound very reversible
Whats gonna be nuts is having to kill the original V as the replacement V. I could see some really good story telling about the nature of reality and further exploration of the presence of a Soul and the implications of its absence.
Idk. It’s pretty obvious that there is no soul and it really only makes life more precious. No heaven, no reincarnation. Hence, this one chance you have is meaningful. The core of Buddhism is exactly this lol No soul, no reincarnation, no heaven Nothing but Right Now
@@OfAngelsAndAnarchistthat's the basics, everything is all right now, past, future, you, me... all in one. OM 🕉 is you though, YOU. And it is normally translated as the soul
@@sexylazercatwizard past/future don’t actually exist outside the mind Try to do something in the past, try to do something in the future. It can’t be done and doesn’t actually even make any sense. You can only do anything, be or exist in the present. That’s all that actually exists. An ever shifting Now. lol It’s only the present moment
To be fair orignal V "dies" multiple times throughout the story. Yet we see a continuation in all but arasaka contract ending and suicide ending. My theory is that the relic chip just pushes the neural activity to the neural co processor when the default brains flatlines.Hence maintaining a continuation in consciousness that the player experience. The neural surgeon talks of similar procedure after the V johnny seperation. Hence, the soul itself could have been digitised.
This is intriguing for a sequel you start the game as you currently overpowered V and do a mission to get the new body. but because of the new body you lose your cyberware and stuff bringing you back to level 1.
I feel that they might have more involvement in PL. Seeing as they have a few facilities we haven't had access to yet. Even their primary cloning facility is in night city
@@LayedBackGamers you would think given the fact they have the ability to fully realize immortality, if they work together, they might have some dealings behind the scenes that we don't know about.
I actually think the solution to Vs situation is embedded in the game already. You can catch a couple of news articles in the game where they talk about a treatment for an otherwise untreatable neurodegenerative disorder. Specifically, they use nanites to rebuild the damaged tissue on a constant basis. Effectively, it's exactly the opposite version of what's happening to V. Now they did say it cost a rather paltry 600,000 eddies a month for said treatment. But if you were just going to steal the tech in the first place, who cares how much it costs?
It's not really in doubt that other Megacorps have the resources to save V. Helman was trying to defect to Kang Tao, and suggests that V go to them for help. V responds that Kang Tao would be more interested in exploiting the Bio-chips technology than saving their life. The same applies for all the other Mega-corps. It's not that they can't save V. It's that they can't be trusted, that you'd get another variation of the Devil ending, that V would end up a prisoner. That's the message of the Game. In order to live freely, you need to accept death as a part of life.
Finally someone says this I’ve been wondering this exact thing if a body with the same dna is the problem why not just clone V and put him in his new body
@@LayedBackGamers agreed especially with them considered to be the top corp or at the very least even with militech and having their hands in everything also I thought the don’t fear the reaper ending was the cannon ending and the phantom liberty dlc is a prequel to the vanilla ending?
@@LayedBackGamers probably for the same reason their entire child Netrunner gonk unit got massacred, no runners were able to forage the data in the deep net
I assume Arasaka has been more focused on not being destroyed, I would also assume they gotta start from scratch so they might try to set that up again in the future? No clue
I think the whole point is that no matter how many bodies you make, his mind was completely catatonic since it basically became Johnny Silverhand. Its like cloning a celebrity’s body. Sure they’re the same person in function, but without the experience and knowledge are they really the same person? Even if V is soul killed, is that really HIM? No. There is a clear difference between Artificial Constructs and an actual person. Though it’s an interesting theory though
Honestly it would be SUPER freaking cool to be running through biotechnica in a sequel or something as a completely different and unconnected protagonist to just come across a cloning vat with a mostly grown clone in it that used the model of the last V you played as if there was a cp2077 save for it to read.
I definitely hope they make use of previous Save data. It would make the next game feel much more Immersive and our previous playthrough more impactful. Even if we aren't playing as V
Didn't expect you to address the "consciousness vs. personality and memories" problem I've had with the game (which that problem is part of the game's point, part of why I love it). To everyone else, it's V. Even to soul-killed V themselves, it's V. The pre-soul-killer V is actually dead and gone like you said, something I was a little disappointed they didn't acknowledge in the game before entering Mikoshi.
This is a lot like Soma, in that you have a person's consciousness being transferred multiple times, and each "host" is an echo of the original. Who V is now is the post-SoulKiller V, whose life started the moment the relic resuscitated them from death. To themselves they're V, even if they're an echo
This theory could work except for one major problem with it that is actually spelled out in the game itself. There is no untainted record of V's original genetic code. The moment Relic activated it started modifying V's brain and body to make it more suitable for Johnny's engram to take over. This included rewriting V on a genetic level. This is actually mentioned in the game as a reason they can't just dump V into a new body. It has to be genetically similar enough to her original body to take the engram, but they don't have her original genetic code to make a new body that would be appropriate. Even by the time she wakes up in Vik's clinic, it's already too late as her genetic code has been changed beyond what would work for a clone body.
Everyone is thinking "You can't use someone else's body," and they're right. Picking someone off the street won't work; the engram doesn't have the right genetic code. However, cloning would be a different story, since a clone could be the correct genetic code. As as been pointed out, V's genetic code pre-relic exists. It's at Vic's office, because genetic mapping would be SOP for patients. Arasaka would also have this as part of V's employee file. Biotechnica knows how to create a clone-they just need a genetic template to work from
I didn't know about Biotechnica or cloning tech for sure existing since they aren't really mentioned in the game and I'm not really familiar with the original tabletop, but I did think of a similar solution that the game either overlooks or disregards for the sake of narrative drama. You can hear and see mentions in-game that completely synthetic cyborg bodies exist, which is referred to as "full chrome". The game says you're still dying after getting the Engram removed because of genetic damage, and you could only get a new body if it had compatible genetics. But you they could just download your mind into a full-cyborg body in the meantime. There's also in-game ads in the background that mention a new treatment that repairs genetic damage that no one mentions in the endings either.
Hey man don't know if I commented about this on your videos before but love the lore you've been doing for Cyberpunk. Can't wait for more theories. No one else does it like you. Hope your channel geta big, you deserve it!
Choom, I really appreciate the support it means a lot to me that you took the time to comment such kind words. I definitely hope to continue growing and reaching as many people as possible. I love creating this content!
5:19 it's weird that Arasaka publicly announced that their dead CEO successfully take over his son's body. It would be smart keep this type of secret be keep hidden. Edit: Just realized that Arasaka advertising Secure your Soul program.
The relic changes V's body into a template for johnny, implied on a cellular level, you could say they can find a sample of v's original tissue to make a clone, like from their eyes after they got kiroshi's or from the bullet necklace they wear having grey matter on it
It still wouldn't matter, since you can't transfer a consciousness, you can only copy and paste it. V would still die in their old body while a clone would get all their memories. This video is pure copium.
There are some very strange similiarities between V and johnny and what happened to the jefferson's something johnny notes also take into account with his six month expiration any chance at finding a cure would be pointless because his own body is destroying itself cause it views V's neuron's as an intruder If there is any cure outside of being soulkilled by arasaka it would be very tightly held by the rein's of whoever was pulling the strings of the jeffersons and the man with blue eyes however like all things cyberpunk such technology that could help him would be probably be worse then just dying I think whatever cure he could find would be worse then the illness. Remember V died once already its more of a tragedy same thing as edgerunners the only real difference is how does V choose to die alone surrounded by enemies and dead as a legend to be remembered in night city OR dying surrounded by loved ones and those you actually care about. OR dying forgotten and not even remembered by a single soul because of your sheer desire to live by selling your own soul to the very thing that keeps night city going. So many tough choices finding a cure at any point was futile you can tell in the dialogue with Johnny and V when they discuss their options have johnny take over OR live out the six months.
While Biotechnica is one of the least explored corporations in Cyberpunk, what little we are given in the game as well as Edge Runners, incorporated with what you've uncovered im the source material makes absolutely perfect scenario for V to have the situation remedied with the technology they possess. If you take the info given that Biotechnica and Militech have a working relationship a Super Soldier type technology combining Clones with AI ( IE Bobby Fett) and Militech under NUSA being at odds makes for the perfect insertion of Phantom Liberty.
At the same time the game does not explore biomaterial or nanomaterial. There's only cyberware. Biotechnica only had to confine itself to a decorative role.
@@artchaos6895 yes, but in the Biotechnica area there's a few things going on that gives bits and pieces about Biotechnica's quote unquote behind the scenes stuff which got a little not alot but a little bit of more light in edgerunners and source material aligns Biotechnica with Militech. Plus other concepts without a direct link kind of hint that Biotechnica dabbles in organ and tissue reproduction.
@@valerieaddy9976 I don't mind, but it's only decorative for the lore. No element of gameplay is supported in this sense, whether at the level of drugs, biological implants, organ transplants, exotic treatments, chimeras and biptids. Maybe some will be developed in the next opus, but here biotechnica is in fact confined to a secondary role.
@@artchaos6895 oh I do get it Biotechnica as of now is just window dressing and mur-murrs, but looking at the totality of it, with Phantom Liberty coming and a sequel already storyboarding along with all the wonderful background source material Layed Back gives us you can definitely delve deeper than just the surface and really see alot more going on than just the cinematics or limited scope of things presented. What I mean to say in the short of it is Creator Mike Pondsmith is onboard, it's really his baby along with the source material so have fun looking at the totality of the work, gleem from it what you can, enjoy this channel which brings excellent content (he should be a marketing agent for Mr. Pondsmith or CDPR) and replay the game in a different light. I have played it a lot and got something new and different every time, yet this channel gets me thinking, remembering bits of information I deemed unconnected and played it all over again and continually feel just like a real world Cyberpunk has so many lenses to see the game through and so much more to offer the deeper you go down the rabbit hole. Kudos to this fine gentlemen by getting people talking, pondering and enjoy the whole experience over and over again #Layed Back Gamers
@@valerieaddy9976 It is true that I did not know this channel before coming across this video but it seems to be doing a very good job. video that I also found following research on Biotechnica (I am French, little chance that I come across it by pure chance) in order to master a corporate campaign on cyberpunk 2020 on fuel crisis atmosphere.
Wait but Alt said V returning to his body was killing him specifically because the body’s cell’s were attacking itself because they were now coded for Johnny. That would mean that a cloned body would retain the same cellular changes which reject V. Unless someone somewhere has some of V’s DNA pre-relic, which would be one hell of a coincidence.
@@LayedBackGamerson top of that it is part of the story to be worked on before the chip occurs, his eyes so definitely has to have some pre chip DNA around there somewhere
Three thoughts on this. First, if the relic didn't take other until V died, possiblely the bullet necklace may have some unaffected DNA on it. Second, in the CORPO beginning Arasaka would have V's fully medical records, that may include samples. Last, in the cut scene an the beginning that has V and Jackie going into business together V gets a tooth knocked out.
@@LayedBackGamers you can get DNA from Hair or Skin cells. It would not be very far fetched to simply go into V's apartment and grab some hair from the shower drain. :/
There are 2 methods that I can think of how v could be saved. 1: Full Borg, like Adam Smasher but more. In the end of the game Alt says V’s body has already accepted Johnny as the dominant personality and will be constantly fight against V, so why not replace the body party’s that rebel and become a walking terminator 2: cloning, in the far future they have synthetic meat created in factories, so why not go one step further. Recreate V’s body so the rampancy isn’t there.
You forget that every v clone will be corrupted with Johnny personality during his 6 months life time, I doubt v have his own dna sample from time before biochip 😢
The only issue with this theory I can think of is that Alt tells to V "DNA reconfiguation has progressed too far" when asked if V can return to their body. This miiiight make it so that a cloned body would retain the reconfiguration done by the Relic, since it has fiddled with the DNA of the body itself. On the other hand though, it should not be impossible at all to find DNA from V from before the insertion of the Relic. Like blood splatter, hair, or whatever in their appartment, or even a replaced limb somewhere RIpperdocs dispose of them to. So with that in mind it should be possible to create a clone of the unmodified V! Awesome video
This was a thought while planning out the theory. In a world of corps though they definitely have his DNA somewhere so I agree with you that it would still likely be possible to find
I keep seeing this argument of nobody having V's base genetic template. Know who would? Viktor, right off the bat. He has data and tissue samples from V from before the heist.
@@LayedBackGamers would like to also bring up the fact that Jonny would have the same constraint. Why is it that his dna can overwrite a body but v can’t? If one were to say the circumstances were the reason what’s to stop you from recreating it to force the process again? Also you could absolutely find samples in his apartment as well even if crops don’t have it or don’t want to fork it over for dna
Id say this theory is treading the waters of Altered Carbon, which in itself is a fantastic piece of Science fiction. However, given Cyberpunks subset a few well placed hits on obtaining biotechnica assets someone could in theory gather the items/research required to clone V, Johnny, Alt, or whoever bringing him/her back to the physical realm.
It's pretty likely I feel like, that biotechnica practically becomes the Tyrrell Corp. They're bound to reach that point as it was already in the talks that they'd mass produce armies
Pretty sure V has been an engram version of himself the moment Dex shoots him in the face. The chip specifically revives V afterward and how else could the chip do that, if it's only meant to save and load the screenshot of the brain?
I think one avenue that has been overlooked is using the very nanites of the prototype relic chip. Reverse engineer them with Alt's help, and using a blood sample of V from before the heist, it should be possible to use the nanites to wage a war against the relic chip and resequence V;s DNA. That would allow for V to not die. However, on the cloning front, as long as there was a uncorrupted DNA sample of V, it should be easy to clone them.
It's weird that between the 2020s and 2077, Soulkiller, Soulkiller alternatives, personality constructs, and cloning are treated like a much more rare and obscure concept. I know there was the DataKrash and Time of the Red, but I find it hard that those events pushed knowledge backward that far.
True however with most data being stored on the net like our timeline, they lost it all several times over due to said events meaning they had to restart or find the original researchers
@T. Smith Or track down the data. Things weren't all deleted. Lots of data got swapped. A 60 year old grandma in London may have had her recipe collection swapped out with classified military documents, and vice versa.
I always felt that V had a shot at survival, but only in specific endings. That said, I also felt it was important to notice that there were other methods possible to bring about a happier ending for V. The Devil ending was essentially a write-off in my eyes, as there's no way Arasaka would allow V to return unless he could be made into a second Adam Smasher. The Star ending likely would put V too far out of range of the necessary resources to reliably expect him to survive the 6 month period that Alt gave him, even with the "Maybe more" part of her estimation. AI do not make mistakes like this, she knows that 6 months is not the cap, but it is the most likely timeline. However, The Star is also the only chance for V to have a child to pass on his legacy, with the romanced Panam, a female V would not survive time necessary to birth a child. The Sun is the only ending that would allow for V to have the resources, influence, and connections necessary to achieve a long life, between gene therapy to lengthen his life and likely with Mr. Blue Eyes providing the final pieces after the raid on the Crystal Palace. So, generally, those are my headcanons for those endings until I hear differently. ^.^
I get where you are coming from cause I thought the same thing about romanced panam, but I think that CDPR wanted to show that no matter how hard you try some people get to live and some have to die. And really, whats V's death compared the thousands of people she kills across the game?
Wait wait wait. Implanting a construct into a clone....... Why did my first thought go to bringing Alt back to flesh, or reviving Johnny? It's not like there aren't any hints that Alt is back (the story Black Dog), or that Relic Johny isn't the same engram that Spider Murphy made with a Soulkiller variant she had lying around....😅
The thing that got me the most is realising, that V dies first when shot in the head and dumped in the garbage, which is alright because you haven't done much with him as a character, but afterwards, after all the side quests and story, when entering mikoshi, V really fully dies, from that point on you're just a copy of V. That shit hit me like a truck.
I wouldn't be surprised if this is the way it would go once you go through the contract ending, Arasaka maybe contracting or working together with Biotechnica as they formerly were business partners at one point in the 1990s but this time instead of trading soldiers for bioweapons, it would be in order to further the Secure Your Soul project
I feel like if CDPR does go with this its gonna be exclusive to only certain endings, specifically I feel like the Star. Panam mentions that they are gonna use every contact they got in Arizona to help V, meaning its quite possible they can get a contact with Biotechnica and do this.
I dunno if I'd say im 100 percent convinced, but it is an interesting idea. I guess my main questions would be along the lines of why WOULD biotechnica help V. Id also like to also point out that if we were to follow this idea of V attempting to either get a favor from Biotechnica, or at least get in close with someone who knows/is connected to them it could be part of the "deal" being made with Mr. Blue eyes in the path of glory ending. If we are talking about human bodies being controlled by an A.I., mr blue eyes is suspect number 1, and could have at least some links back to biotechnica. Overall interesting video though.
Only time will tell. I think there's a possibility that he is more of a verbal story and reference in ORION. As to avoid a confirmed ending but also make his impact clear. Such as with Morgan Blackhand. It would be cool though to be able to upload our previous save so our personal V can appear in the flesh, or like you said have their story continued
@@68freak I agree with you. But then again I kinda like to imagine that Judy uploaded V on a chip and she will be the first person to live on forever but not with a body.
@@68freakthat would be too repetitive & predictable. I say V should have an unconventional ending that sticks two middle fingers to both happy & bad endings. And here’s a good idea… V was actually an A.I. with a mysterious past. As the story progresses, there are slight hints. And by the end, V’s shown to have been modeled after either a special forces operative, or mercenary that died around 1989. Or you can have V survive, only to become the villain in Project Orion.
Sad thing is, we’re not actually saving V, just making a copy of their conscious or matter what happens (even saving V) they will die and a part of him live on, unless they’re able to full download and transfer V’s consciousness into a new one then there will be chance original V will live As a side note, I imagine copying the conscious similar to SOMA, so there is a 50% chance your conscious is moved
You can't transfer a consciousness. Period. One could make a case that copying one could be theoretically possible, but a transfer is just flat out impossible. You can make the perfect copy but it still won't be the same person.
You forgot that V died and was revived by the chip at the beginning of the game. The chip's purpose is to convert the brain pattern into a digitalized form and later load it into the brain. So... ya know,, the V you're playing for most of the game is already a copy.
I've never considered this before ... but uhh V's story seems to be similar to that of Case from Neuromancer. Who isn't dying but has seemingly incurable neuro damage stopping him from going into cyberspace, which was his entire life and his job. He was a cyber criminal that stole from his bosses one day and they punished him by giving him a russian mycotoxin ruining his nerves and ability to go into cyberspace. But even more so is the story of that lady that gives you your first heist mission then tries to scam all sides. Her side quest that you do with Judy, is super super super inspired by the back story of Molly Millions Molly is a 304 working at a doll house. She didn't want to do it .. but it was easy you know? She needed the money. She wanted to upgrade herself and become a razorgirl. (cybernetically enhanced chick with razers that shoot out of her nails) but the cybernetics are expensive af. So she starts doing doll work. At first it's great... she wakes up, sometimes a little sore with a bunch of money. It's like she goes to sleep, wakes up richer. So she keeps doing it .. And her bosses seem to love her, they give her raises and treat her like loyalty. One day she goes to Japan for another surgery / upgrade (for her cybernetics) and one of the doc's nick her doll chip by accident. So it starts malfunctioning .. first she gets dreams, most of them horrible, some of them she really enjoys .. she's basically seeing her self in third person being f'd by strangers. But then over time it becomes worse and worse and the dreams turn into nightmares. One day she wakes up, covered in blood, next to her the lifeless body of a teen girl. On the other side of the bed a fat old guy she recognizes.. it's the mayor. Turns out her bosses had found out about her modifications. They normally don't allow such things.. but they quickly found out some clients really have a thing for dangerous cybernetically enhaced chicks and then it quickly turns into them using her for snuff stuff. This is extremely close to what happens to that girl in cyberpunk. Moreover the dollhouse, how it works, the doll chips, even how the dollhouse looks is very similar in game. And it was all made up by Gibson in the 80s. And it's kinda wild.. considering how popular only fans is.. I imagine if someone invented such a doll chip, with the corrosion of our values and the changes in our sexual attitudes. it wouldn't surprise me if like 20/50% of women in the future have worked at one time or another at such a doll house. Can't pay rent? Spend a day at the doll house Can't pay for a surgery? A few days of dolling Really want that cool expensive new purse, shoes etc? doll house .. and before you know it it's a thing that's part of the female college experience or "doll work is real work! " type sht.
05:40 it wouldnt be possible to make clone of V, this would be because V's body and mind arent V's anymore. So cloning wouldnt be possible unless theres a sample of V's DNA and engram of V's mind. Cloning V's mind would result in clone having either brain damage or another Silverhand in the clones head too. Cloning processes might also clone nanites from the relic because they have attached to V, which would result in clone having the same issue as the original. If cloning is done after Silverhand has been removed, same issue would be there still. V's bodys tissue (DNA) and mind is already "tainted" which would result in clone having the same issue and same about six months to live.
All this theory would require is the possession of Vs DNA before the Relic. Which it's a world ran by corps so there's 100% DNA somewhere. Better yet. Vik has records and samples of Vs DNA. It wouldn't be nearly as much of an issue with the engram. Seeing as Alt Cunningham successfully split the two in Mikoshi and the only issue left was the body being too far gone. Clearly if there was a body identical to his original he would've been fine. This is of course all speculation but that's my take
@@LayedBackGamers (EDIT: Also i forgot. V's has cyberware, so DNA sample would need to likely be from V before larger cyberware or anything like that, because of metals and other residue from cyberware.) Thing is that it would require perfectly preserved sample of V's full DNA and copy of V's mind ( aka engram) before the Relic. Vik doesnt seem like high end operation and doesnt have budget for keeping sample of V's complete DNA sequence. Vik would need 100% perfect complete copy of V's DNA . Copy of V's mind would still likely be require because even after Alt has separated V and Silverhand parts of V's mind would still be missing parts and thats without starting to speculate on long term damage done to V's mind when it was partly overwritten. Only reason we dont really see this damage is likely because it hasnt manifested in a noticeable way before V's six months are up.
@@CriticalHitRabbit You don't need a physical sample, just the DNA sequence. With genetic editing, you could alter DNA from a donor to match the original. We can edit DNA now, with things like CRISPR/Cas. And we know Biotechnica is capable of creating clones from combining DNA from different sources and editing them. In 2077 it shouldn't be impossible, just extremely difficult
I'd say this would be doable for most endings, but I am still wondering what would happen with the endings in which V doesn't get soulkilled. There are some of those, namely the suicide ending (in which V obviously dies) and the alternative route for the Devil Ending in which V rejects Arasaka's final offer.
Great video choom i was only able to watch bits and pieces during lunch but biotechnia i can see working their grubby hands on V but once again like any corpo theyre gonna want something in return...
Definitely. Biotechnica is weird in that sense because honestly they do the most for the world. Sure they're still a Corp that does a lot of bad but they do a lot of good.
This matches with the technology of Altered Carbon. Eventually you are a construct, transmitted from one sleeve to another, but origional body is or may be, no more.
i remember saying this when i heard them talking about their new discovery at the end of the game. It's random but in the background and v glances at it for a moment and i was like, yeah that's an easy fix
Well done. I went a good distance down this same path - I didn't have the BioTechica piece. The secret ending would be Canon and the Blue Eyes (a Morgan Blackhand Construct) would provide the tech for the clone body somehow. I really like this it fills a lot of gaps for me. How "they" (who ever "they" are) get the engram from Alt - it does exist and consequently can be used.
V is going through the onset of autoimmune reject where his body is attempting to purge itself of his nervous system, in other words Multiple sclerosis. The thing is... we have the technology right now to treat V but there generally is no cure.
There is radio news brodcast in CP2077 that BioTechnica(if I didn't fck it up with different corp) just had breakthrough first in history by developing treatment that can restore even severely damaged neurological tissue and etc. V was hit with soulkiller anyway by Alt to split him with Jonny so he is construct anyway - but his body was already changed by chip to fit Jhonny, so the real issue is V's body rejecting V's construct at the end of CP2077(endings that include assult on Arasaka). Unfortunate as it is - only at the Devil ending V is not "soulkilled", if ofc V chooses not to sign the contract with 'saka. All and all...."City always wins"
I haven't finished the game yet, but if V actually stays on the construct (which is my caveat, don't think alt would want that without knowing where the relic goes after and it sounds like it'd be no sweat for her. So more safety in exchange for basically no effort.) then V will eventually be recovered and loaded into a new body either way. I just don't know if we'd see that in cannon.
I've been wondering if everything in the game from the moment V is shot by Dex is a simulation. That is, what B expeiences is the Relic rewriting V's conscious to accomodate "JS"?
Something I saw during CB2077 that made me wonder if Biotechnica can save V or not was that during the game, there is an breaking news for Biotechnica on tv where they say that they have developed a cure for multiple sclerosis, that it is now possible to rebuild nerve tissue. I don't have any medical knowledge to say if sclerosis has anything to do with the problem V has, but when I heard "rebuild nerve tissue" I thought: "Man, couldn't that save V"?
Most of my videos use the end credit music of 2077. It's a great vibe and perfectly encaptured the tone of the game. It's my go to! Thanks for the kindness choom
Interesting, so basically the relic does its thing and makes Vs original body into Johnny Silverhand and Vs not so much corrupted conciousness that is still mostly V lives on in an identical body and in the end, V get twin with the attitude of a Johnny Silverhand. I like this, this definately has the potential to strike some chaos in Night City.
So I’ll go ahead and start here, Cyberpunk 2077 is the extent of my background with this universe and it’s lore but when going through the story I picked up on the whole engram using nano machines to rework V’s DNA. In reality for the legend ending all V would need to do is hire a genetics lab to reconstruct their pre-engram DNA then use a similar nano tech(or in our real world case Crispr) to undo or overwrite the damage done by the engram. The only problem then is the time factor. V’s body would most likely start breaking down like you’d see with radiation sickness patients if they couldn’t move quick enough to secure a dna sample then synthesize a solution.
That's my only issue I take with rewriting Vs DNA or reversing the nano tech. I feel as though his body might not be able to hand so much stress. Especially rewriting back in the middle of a transition. Though I find it to be a very possible chance of survival for V if done right. Especially since he should have his original DNA with vik, on his bullet necklace, or somewhere else
Damn, from what I picked up in game I thought biotechnica was mainly into food production like bio engineered crops and synthetic "meat". Never guessed that they were into this level stuff
I honestly think that V is being soulkilled before signing the contract in the devil ending. They experiment on him/her, cloning the body and uploading engram on it. That's why V's stuck in a loop. In westworld they had Delos cloned in exactly same way.
I really hope the sequel gives us more insight into militech and biotechnica. 2077 focuses super heavily on arasaka and, with them having moved their main operations out of the NUSA by 2079, it leaves room for us to explore the intricacies of the other two big players in America. Maybe some sort of conflict for economic control over night city now that arasaka is out of the picture
I'd love this followed up on in the sequel, the Aldecaldos did head to Arizona in the Nomad ending Perhaps Panam could pull strings and call-in some favors to get in with Biotechneca for a plot like this
To be fair, most if not all corporations have the resources and expertise to keep V alive. Would they though? Absolutely not. Which is why although it’s cool to think V could’ve made it, there really was no chance with the moment V entered Konpeki Plaza.
I mean I wouldn't say just any corporation has the resources but a few do. Such as night Corp. And yeah they'd have a Smasher / blackhanf which is very handy
I think your theory is actually the Canon ending if there was to be a sequel or DLC of Vs story where no matter what ending you got somehow V would learn off Biotechnica and the cloning facilities and try to make a clone of themselves and transfer their consciousness into it and like someone else wrote the best scenario would be Johnny takes over your body but gets an Ingram of your consciousness and takes it with him to find a cloning facility
in the star ending v has a really good chance of survival, since all the characters (especially vik) dont seem to treat you like youre gonna die in a few months, its just v needs to be cautious about taking immunosupressants (probably) and making sure the chip doesnt get dust in it while the modified relic """replaces""" their brain
As long as the tissue sample for growing v’s clone was obtained before the body was taken over too much by Johnny this would work. Because there wouldn’t be much point to replicating a body that was already inhospitable to V. So maybe it could be something a ripperdoc had on hand? Like maybe Vic would have some of v’s old flesh preserved to get a good dna sample from?
Well it could be solved. Hellman said the Relic was attacking V's neural system. A cloned body doesnt need to be a 1:1 copy especially since we're slowly gaining the ability to edit DNA irl. Then theres the BioChip itself. Its made V's body compatible to Johnny before. Who's to say they cant have Nanites do the same for V this time? Especially with an intact neural system this time
I love to brainstorm Cyberpunk post-canon endings in my spare time and my own theories are almost the exact same as the ones in this video. My idea was that V would locate Johnny's body (which, in Cyberpunk Red, was cryogenically frozen and preserved). Given that Biotechnica can grow clones, I don't see why they couldn't also regrow select parts of one's body as well. Therefore, my idea was that this technology would be able to repair the necrotic tissue and therefore restore Johnny's vitals, then his engram could be put back into his body. As for V, I also had the clone idea! It makes so much sense in the context of the universe and Biotechnica is such an untapped wealth of lore potential. However, I do kind of diagree that an engram is just information and not the person themselves. I'm gonna sound like a snob so forgive me lol, but although this holds up from a Watsonian (in-universe) perspective, it doesn't make sense from a Doylist (meta) perspective. The entire story arc of Cyberpunk is focused on the idea of hope, including the idea that Johnny was able to change from being an asshole to everyone around him to deeply loving someone who was massively different from him. I feel like the entire relationship and character arcs of Johnny and V would sort of feel null if Johnny were nothing more than a really clever AI. The idea of religion and spiritual souls is brought up several times throughout the story without the narrative discrediting the ideas (Sinnerman, Misty's tarot cards, the Buddhist monk's meditations, etc). Call me crazy, but I genuinely believe that there is still some soul within the engrams, whether it be just a replication of human brain signals or one's spiritual soul literally linking to the engram as it's transferred.
This is my thing with the whole soulkiller situation. There's some examples in which it feels obvious that the engram is seperste from the original. But in some instances such as Alt, the writing made it feel pretty clear she was ripped from her body and still able to return normally before being unplugged. So it's hard to entirely say without pondsmith weighing in but he likes the ambiguity. I also agree with the idea that V could find silvethand in the flesh. I made a video not too long ago about it. I'd say that story is likely to appear in the ttrpg though over a gsme
biggest problem with this theory is getting the actual material for cloning. Since we don't know what specific areas of V is being overwriten much less know wether the process is gradual all over the body or only affecting certain areas at a time. The only safe assumption that can be made about V's body is that before being soulkilled is that Johnny's enngram should have taken over at least 60-ish percent since V is terminal, and im pretty sure we actually have an exact-ish number with how the game measures our relation to Johnny and knowing how egotistical and narcassistic he is it would mean we're becoming more like him as he likes us more. Additionally when checking the meter in the ending where we give our body to Johnny we see that the number is 100 while in other endings the max we get is 70, enough to ensure we most definitely die but not enough to completely take us off the board just yet. As such if the starting material itself is contaminated the process of replication will only further copy it. But maybe they'll do something with it on phantom liberty considering the spoilers. Edit: Also as a side note the previous "subjects" that were brought back didn't have their body's genetic makeup tampered with pre or post process however in V's case his or her genetic makeup has been actively altered to the extreme, or so we're told by everyone, that is even when considering the genetic data that was taken upon being soulkilled in mikoshi like in johnny's case whose engram is overwriting us with him. As such it would only be possible for V to live if V's parents, close relatives or siblings, if they had any, were to fork over some samples to get the ball rolling. Or if they had stashed some form of genetic material pre-heist that was relatively fresh, which I doubt it is or they even did.
Well I think you're underestimating the easy access of DNA in the Cyberpunk world. There's corps, governments, the military, etc. Then in gsme we can see that Vik keeps the information and I'd assume samples for V from before the heist. As well as the fact that V has a necklace with a bullet that shot him. Meaning his old DNA is attached
I always thought if V body will survive with Johnny mind in it, fusing Jhonny and V mind into a single consciousness could work to save V. Think like Johnny+all V's Memories. Certainty if I were V I'd choose to fuse with Johnny rather than Alt
Interesting theory, but it's missing a big point: Biotechnica has an acive reason to not offer V a new body, given that he, as an outsider, cost them a lot of manpower, and time in negotiations. Without V, it is unlikely that Panam returns to the Aldecaldos, who, if you recall, were in talks with Biotechnica about a long-term labor or logistics contract at the time. Without Panam, Saul signs away the clan into Biotechnica's service, unimpeded, and i find it highly unlikely that Panam was an unknown quantity to them, since prudence would dictate that they understand the dynamics within this group...
I thought there was some in-game dialogue explaining why this wasn't possible, though I may be remembering incorrectly. Something about the relic's nanites already having rewritten too much of V's own DNA in order to facilitate his/her mind being overwritten.
Interesting, yeah I can see that. Also makes me realize there's way more source material that I haven't had a chance to dive into beyond the game. Good video choom, thanks.
Thanks for your kindness and support choom. I'm always happy to bring more people to the source material, every bit is a great read and opportunity to change your perspective of 2077!
He not only possess the actual relic but also its schematics and a past version of soulkiller, so he could just sell it to biotechnica rather than a front assault
since the upgrades seem to not matter when giving them to normal people why not make a robot out of the upgrades using a something similar to Adam smasher because in the game a lot of him is still intact when v kills him and there is spare parts in Adam smashers stash in the docks
I know this is a late response but thanks a lot for the kind comment choom. I love Cyberpunk and being able to create content for others to view about it. I'm glad you ended up here and feel free to join the Discord to chat anytime!
I'd give this double thumbs up if I could. You've done some serious digging. First game I played (instead of GM'd and one I ran so many times for new players) and boy was it an epic. (I've been darkly mumbling for years about how I thought this WAS going to be an option to save V when the game launched.) ...also, it makes those rumours about Biotechnica turing Nomads into 'werewolves' a lot less humourous now.
One of the first games I participated in was Land of the Free. It's crazy how much Lore is packed into that adventure. My party had ended up in dealings with Arasaka. Letting their netrunner Crack into Adrianas head to steal all the information on cloning. To me this feels like a Canon outcome. Seeing as they end up with cloning facilities in 2023. The adventure even went out of its way to make it very clear Adriana held enough info to replicate the facilities. This was a fun video so I'm glad you enjoyed choom
This is just one of the MANY plot holes in CP2077, here are a few: -Why did Jackie not use a hypo? -Why did Delimain not have an onboard AutoDoc but does have "combat mode"? -What is Delimain's "comprehensive" health coverage and why does it let the contract preclude a ripperdoc? -Why can't I actually buy a "Jackie Wells" in the Afterlife? -Why does TBug suck as a hacker? I mean really, she had a good 5 seconds of warning where she could have disconnected. So much for firewalls. -Why does the Relic require storage at low temps but is designed (and saved by Jackie) to insert into the human body? Technical complaints: -How do revolvers have silencers but sniper/DMRs don't? -How can Tech weapons not use silencers? Just make the wall penetration not work with them like ricochets don't. I could go on, but I don't have the time.
With the devil ending, there's already a good chance that Arasaka will bring V back to life when they eventually find a compatible body. For starters, they have a sense of honor but more importantly, they can always use a good merc, especially one whose obedience can be coerced if need be. They'd provide the body and download V but make it so that V needs regular treatment for the body to not reject the personality, treatment that coincidentally, only Arasaka can provide and of course they graciously will... so long as V remains in their good graces.
@@spookyghost515 Saburo is honorable, he prides himself on that. Plus, Arasaka has done everything they promised. They could have let V die, they didn't need him anymore but they tried to fix him. And they offer him free Secure your Soul services if he wants them or he can go and do whatever if he doesn't. Their help with a body might come at a price, as I said but they have no reason to betray V.
The issue is that due to how the Artifact works. Cloning wouldn't fix V. The artifact specifically uses technology in a way to remap the brain completely. To the point that leaving it in will change the brain entirely to Johnny. But if you take it out, the body already views V's remaining brain matter as a cancer and kills it off. That's why V has 6 months left to live, That's how long it'll take before V's brain destroys itself from viewing it 'as' cancer. Using soulkiller to make a new engram of V and shoving it into a new body or even his original doesn't work because at this point, the brain is already being copied in a state of self destruction. Every time the Engram got a new host, it would have 6 months to live before they'd die. And updating the engram with new experiences would in turn reduce that 6 month time limit further. Due to Cancer being genetic and ones own cells attacking themselves or growing out of control. It's not something that could simply be snipped out of the code because it's the brain attacking itself. not the DNA causing replication without limit. The 'only' way V could potentially survive would be to go the way of Smasher, No longer organic at all. Fully Robotic. Their mind would then exist in perpetuity as data that could restore itself, but they would lose the very things that made them human as a result. Which in itself isn't really surviving.
There's something worth considering about clones and putting AIs into their bodies. Part of the issue with AIs is they have limitations to their coding and what they can do. Even if they can write their own code to self-improve, they have to know what to code for. When it comes to biological issues, AIs simply don't have the relevant knowledge and experience. If you were to put an advanced AI into a human body, however, they're going to start utilizing that human brain to form mental connections that they didn't have access to. They're going to get dumped with naturally-producing chemicals that will introduce to them new experiences and new ways to think. The limitation of hardware and their own coding ceases to be a limiting factor when you put an AI into a human brain.
Cloning is a great theory but I believe the answer comes from BioDyne's experimental nanotech multiple-sclerosis treatments. You hear about this in game from an N54 news cast.
A reverse engineering of the nanites in the Relic would be a very viable solution. Just requires someone with the knowledge to do it, seeing as even Alt had no clue how it worked
Thanks for the support choom! There's a lot of interesting possibilities in the Cyberpunk world, a merge would be very interesting seeing as it would make their situation more permanent. It definitely might be possible
I wonder: since becoming a construct, V loses his/her "soul" and just becomes data or "1s and 0s". With years passing in the Net, Alt becomes more robotic and is not like how she was as a person because of this digitalization. If V's engram were to be downloaded into a cloned body, would V also turn into a "robot" (much like Alt did) as times goes on? Does that also mean that Johnny, in the endings were V gives up control of his/her body, will do the same? Anyway, thank you for the awesome content choom! I just subscribed!
An important difference is, that the engram of Alt was uploaded to the net and not chip inside a body. Also between 2013 and 2077 the Net crashed, which may affected Alt.
I always thought people's sentiment online that V has no chance of surviving the 6 months was a bit defeatist to say the least, especially in a world like cyberpunk with all of the advances in medical science and nanite treatment. Good video man.
Ingame and in the story, this would presumably be gonk talk as you put it. We know Arasaka can't swing the neuronal repair V needs. Well they might be lying to us and figure they'd keep V on a USB stick until they need a really capable enforcer and then they'd clone them a new body. We might figure that Mr. Blue eyes might be able to help. But then again what could he be doing that Alt can't? From a technological point of view, V's Problem wouldn't be a problem for long. We see technology employing nanites to alter V's genome so that it would fit the Johnny Silverhand engram and the DNA data presumably attached to it. Alt could've told the nanites to do the very same process again but now alter the V Body to fit the V engram. But then again with the technology we see most of the plot of this story wouldn't make sense. We do see the process of aging being slowed down immensely. Hanako Arasaka was bown in 1999. She does not look her age. This isn't a process available to the highest elite. For the rich maybe but Rouge and the Samurai People aren't looking to be in their eighties. Arasaka has technology to have nanites alter DNA. This whole aging business should be history to them and cloning a body should be trivial; We could clone Humans today, we're not doing that because of ethical considerations.
On a completely different note though, I thought for sure the whole MS treatment news that kept popping up in the news in Night City would for sure be implemented somehow into the story. I mean... why have the writers create something to do with potentially reversing the effects of MS when V is going through a rather similar thing... just for us to not be able to do anything about it? Even though the cost for 1 treatment alone is like 500,000 eddies, that could be a part of how V goes and demands they fix her or she storms their facility with a bunch of her friends, etc etc. I dunno. Just felt like there were a few things she may have not considered. Or maybe it was just the Devs and because of the Shareholders, they were out of time to create a storyline there.
They can use a full cyber-body, maby a blank clone-brain. But it wont work alone just with the person they intend to put in the robotic body. There have to be an A.I. and only WITH the A.I. is it posible sins the human brain isent designed to handel that massive amount of data at the same time. The A.I. however IS designed to do everything and can handel it. Might work with a full mechanical/synthetic brain.
Damn.. I’d say this or a variation of this is 99% going to be canon for next expat. I dunno if they will have the brains to just continue your save files or if it will be standalone but yeah even in the ending in which Johnny takes over your body your engram might make it to a biotech I a clone… this would make V really super special in Cyberpunk.. finally a unkillable Hero fighting the corpus.. with the help of Johnny… man this could make for amazing storytelling.. V and Johnny both fighting a war.. either being a mirror of eachother or becoming the same.. dude this would make such a good story
There's a good chance that the sequel doesn't follow V, BUT I would appreciate the use of save files to alter how V is spoken of in the sequel. Like references to your actual version of V. There's always a chance as well that Angel / Alt and the original Silverhand are still out there for V or Silverhand to encounter!
I really wonder how phantom liberty will tie in. Will it takes place in the middle of the original campaign or will it start after the end of the original. To start the addon with a clone would also explain how you have to build your character from the ground once more. I like that idea.
What if, early in the game after you got Johnny installed, but before he starts to take over, you go to mikoshi and just insert Johnny in there and not yourself. Because he hasnt taken over yet. Wouldn't that be a possibility.
That would be pretty interesting. I hope we can get a new game + feature in the future. Another way to go about a new game + would be as a brain dance feature. Not actually a brain dance but propose it as you running through what your V has recorded and making changes.
Man while i would love for this to actually become reality in the dlc or a sequel i don't think it will happen...especially since i don't see them continuing V's story....at least not as the main character and i doubt we will be playing in the next corporate war, at most we'd be able to create a character that was a veteran of the next war since i heard somewhere or from someone that the next game will take more inspiration from the table top when it comes to character creation, but who knows.
i hope they take more inspiration from the table top. I can't lie how disappointed I was when the storyline of CP2077 was so incredibly linear. I thought I could become a maxtac officer, be part of arasaka or militech. I thought it would be similar to New Vegas with the ability to help factions, go against them or join them and help them become the dominant force.
I have all the sourcebooks, thanks to a humble bundle sale, so when you said what page, I went and looked it up and was like OOOOOH~! XD Makes me wonder if this is going to be in Phantom Liberty....
i've always suspected that v could be saved if johnny and v agreed to share the body. so the big problem is that most of vs brain is now Johnny and rewriting the brain v is super destructive. but what if you tricked the chip into thinking that the merged state was the correct one? the reconstruction would stop and V could begin to heal. i;m sure johnny would like that option more than stealing V's body
I can't see why the biochip can't just reconstruct V's brain to accept his on conciousnes like it did for Johnny. Hell maybe if V does die after 6 months because Alt put his mind on that chip. If the chip stays in him all that time them the chip could activate again and bring V back to life but with 6 months of memories gone and all he remembers is entering the bathtub at Mikoshi as the chip nanite reconstructed the brain again to accept the conciousnes that is on that chip.
Or, alternatively, utilize a largely cyborg body with artificial neural tissues, which is well within the established capabilities of several groups in setting.
As a huge Half Life fan. I feel Cyberpunk 2077 was a very under rated game. Despite the bugs. But Damn I haven't enjoyed a game like that since half life 1. Only game I beat twice since half life 1 as well. Not usually of fan of beating games I already conquered. But the problem I still see with argument in the video is that Alt Cunningham the AI was able to successfully separate your characters construct from Johnny Silverhands. The problem was that it took so long for the player to reach Alt that by the time we seperated our cautiousness , the body already adapted to Johnny's. They already said in the game that if we got there sooner, we probably could of avoided death. So we had the choice to give the body to johnny or live out our days dying. The game never said it was impossible, they simply said the body had already adapted to Johnny's DNA and therefore rejecting our cautiousness or construct. So there's that.
I hope you all enjoyed the video! Let me know your thoughts down below on both the theory and video. Have a great week chooms!
Nice video, I didn't even really ever consider the fact that every ending does have V ending up SoulKilled. That does make for some interesting options for a sequel game. I am curious though, if they did make a CP2077:2, what ending do you think they'd go forward with? First question do you think we'd even play as V? Or would we be a new character all together? Because here's my thoughts on things. Assuming they set it up, where the has it's own, hard coded canon, and it doesn't just pull save file data from your first game, I think the ending where V goes to space is probably the most versatile ending for CDPR to work with. For multiple reasons. 1. It leaves the events in Arasaka mostly in mystery, as the only person who knows what really happens, is V (since he didn't take anyone with him on that suicide mission). So you can spin the urban legends however you want, with nobody to contradict the myths and tall tales. 2. It allows you to have the game be based on the space station, assuming you play as V again, and basically have it be like Bioshock. An outsider infiltrates an isolated, uber-elite, dystopian "ideal city", and has to carve a path through it to get to his objective. I personally don't want that version, but I could see it working from a video game perspective. 3. Assuming we don't play as V (my personal preference), you can set up V as an NPC that the new character could encounter. Similar to running into other Night City legends like Rogue, etc. Or you could just not have them be in it at all. 4. Since the Don't Fear the Reaper ending doesn't mandate anyone's death, you could have the entire cast of characters return in some capacity. Johnny can show back up as an AI with Alt. All of the rogue's gallery of allies are, in theory, all alive, and can show up for cameos.
They don't have to write in some storyline for the characters to show back up, or die off camera, etc. Panam could return with the Nomads for some reason, Judy is potentially still in the city, or could also return. Though both of them could simply be a distant contact ally. Rogue could still be giving out jobs as a fixer, etc. It's the only ending that I can think of, where any and all supporting cast could carry over into the new game. Plus it also ends with V still in control of his own meat suit. So if they do go down the route of allowing V to save himself for realzies, there isn't any narrative gymnastics that need to happen. Johnny's already been split out and is alive and well (in theory), V is on a ticking clock sure, but, hey he's still got control of his own body. It's the least chaotic ending, in regards to the state of the cast of characters.
So that's my thought on which ending they would carry over, in this theoretical sequel.
I always thought this was possible. I actually thought why didn’t they make a synthetic body as an alternative instead of a biological body. Both live and become legends.
This would be an interesting ending for a future expansion. Thanks for putting this together!
so you first say that once you're soulkilled, you're dead, just a piece of information (Ok I thought the same) but then you also say that if you use that piece of data correctly, it's suddenly good? You really believe that?
just to explain myself (in case that either you don't understand me or I didn’t fully understand which V you thought of) as I see it, once you die, you die and soulkiller kills you. the only thing that can be immortal is that piece of data of yours that soulkiller creates but that's your copy not you
(The original V (before the heist went down the drain) is dead no matter what after he gets soulkilled)
So in a perfect scenario, V would give their body to Johnny, then ask Alt to make a relic with their Engram. Then Johnny would try to raid Biotechnica’s facility and produce a clone of V. Given V’s reputation they would get a lot of help, from Rogue to the Aldecados, or even hire some mercs. That way both V and Johnny gets a second chance in life.
the perfect scenario would be the star ending where somehow V can meet alt again since all the engrams are going to be with alt in her endings
That would be EPIC! 🤩
I'm not an expert on cloning, but wouldn't a functioning clone take years to develop and gestate to form a perfect clone? Sure you could break into a facility and demand they make a clone, but Corps don't take kindly to being bossed around and BIOTECHNICA is no doubt packing with guards and their own private military. Not to mention they sign partnerships with nomads who could serve as mercs (especially ones that don't like the Aldecaldos) to protect their assets
Heck there's a DLC idea. Johnny Silverhand as V (or a different character) learns that Biotechnica has the means to do it, then in response calls up Rogue or whoever then has to do a few hours of tasks to prep a break in at their cloning facility, steal one of the cloning vats and bring it to the Afterlife to create the clone of V. A secret SECRET ending perhaps for those who went with the "Don't fear the Reaper" ending.
There is no so saving V unless it was the Devil ending. As Alt has said, the name soulkiller is accurate. It kills you and replaces you with an engram.
@@wdf70 By 2077, cloning technology's been around for a LONG time, in the Cyberpunk universe. Cloning humans was a thing way before Biotechnica did their thing witn implanting constructs into clones. However, iirc from the p&p sources, those human clones were so cancer-riddled they all found an early, painful end. I can see other big corps giving up on the idea of cloning whole humans after that, dismissing it as too costly. I mean, it's probably fine by them to use such clones as short-lived cannon fodder in their armed conflicts but even there, it'll be cheaper to just use normal humans and replace whatever they lose in battle with (experimental) cyberware until they either get killed or turn cyberpsycho ... Biotechnica, however, stuck with it.
Now just look at how fast technology advances nowadays. A LOT can happen in almost 60 years (Biotechnica made their big discovery in 2020, game is set in 2077). I wouldn't put it past them that they've als been working on a way to clone humans faster, WITHOUT all those health issues early clones had. I also wouldn't consider it impossible that they've already found a way or are close to finding one. I can imagine that, if that's the case, they still would keep it hush-hush to avoid a public outcry (I can imagine the Vatican would have a thing or two to say about humans playing God and we mustn't forget that, as by lore, lots of people turned back to religion when things started falling apart). There also might be ethical concerns or it might even be outright outlawed to clone full human bodies (unless, maybe, it's for "organ harvesting" but even then, it would be more economical to clone just the requred organ). Or, of course - profits. They don't want anyone to catch on to what they're doing so they can reap ALL the profits. Just imagine - combining cloning tech and the Relic tech. There you go - immortality. There'd be a LOT of money in that.
Is funny, when I first played the game and learned of the whole "Ya got 6 months, kid" ending, my first thought was "Cool, we raid Biotechnica next, right?"
*CDPR does the Anakin stare*
"We raid Biotechnica next, *right?*"
I'm so glad I wasn't alone in thinking that.
It is interesting how Biotechnica flats is a rather huge, mostly unexplored area in the game. Lots of potential there for future content.
farming simulator 2077
Same with Zetatech tbh. It's all about Arasaka, Militech and Kang Tao
The first trailer for the DLC has shown V sneaking inside a building that looks like a Biotechnica greenhouse.
@@bing-chilling1713 Take my eddies!
@@mmyr8ado.360 Aren't some of the greenhouses populated in-game currently if you go out of bounds? I swear I saw some clips of dudes in hazmat suits inside them with like, human cloning pods or something
Since biotechnica is mentioned by the Aldecaldos I always thought that that might have been the direction of the nomad ending. Since V and Panam discussed trying something else to save V.
Definitely agree. The nomads know a lot more than one might assume on the surface. Especially since they had communication with Biotechnica
I find it so interesting that in the end where Saburo overwrites Yorinobu, Arasaka doesn't hide this fact. I thought they would want to hide something so horrific like killing your child by replacing their personality with yours, it just shows the state of the world.
And there were many people against it. But Saburo shrugged it off as a consensual donation, like giving a piece of your liver or a kidney. I call bulls***, though. Yorinobu would never agree to give up his body to his father.
@@SoulOfJustice1994 Yikes, this explains a lot about Yorinobu's behaviour. He isn't acting out or hating on his father for some arbitrary reason.. he must've learned of the plans his father had to snatch his body lol.
@@anikarobinson4023 that is a small part sure but read through Yorinobu's entry on the wiki. Basically Yorinobu was in his young age taught by a teacher who instead of giving them "Saburo is a lord of all" taught him and his classmates(?) to think rationally and doubt and question stuff but then eventually they found out what the guy was doing so they (Arasaka) got him killed and made a cover story. But Yorinobu wasn't stupid enough to believe that which created in him a hatred for the corpo. Eventually he learnt more about the company and learnt about the horrors that happened and thus formed Black Lotus with a bunch of other extremely influential companies and decided to destroy them through direct force but that eventually failed so going on and on in the story he finally decided to beat his father at the game and destroy Arasaka from within and that's why he decided to sell the Relic V2; to make money and also to make the chances of Relic being used only to resurrect his father
@@SoulOfJustice1994 of course not. but he has the PR department of a megacorp behind him, not to mention a private army. who will disagree? who actually CARED about Yorinobu enough to stick up for him post mortem?
@@alexsolomon8127 - I would feel sorry for Yorinobu if he hadn't started this chain of events in the first place. All the same, I do not wish his fate on anybody. At least V had the freedom to look for help and Johnny, in the end, did not want a new body at the cost of another life. Yorinobu would have been put in isolation while Saburo's engram slowly but surely took over everything.
The Biotechnica angle would make such a great material for a follow up expansion for the game. Especially if going through Temperance ending, it would be amazing to see reformed Johnny a few months or few years after the ending, returning to NC because Engram V has found a way through the Blackwall (which is completely possible, given much of the Blackwall's effectiveness is just Netwatch propaganda), contacting Johnny like Alt once did, informing him about a way with Biotechnica and asking him to return the favor (and if you did the Temperance ending, you know Johnny would absolutely drop everything for V to help them). And it would be so good and surreal at the same time, possibly seeing both Original V Johnny and Engram Clone V together in the end.
But, of course, this is Cyberpunk we are talking about. There are no happy endings.
I would play the hell out of that game
Didn’t Johnny become ‘part of’ alt like the other engrams stored in mikoshi? I’m not entirely sure what that entails, but it doesn’t sound very reversible
Whats gonna be nuts is having to kill the original V as the replacement V. I could see some really good story telling about the nature of reality and further exploration of the presence of a Soul and the implications of its absence.
Even better if you played as the dying, original V. All that work just so you get replaced
Idk. It’s pretty obvious that there is no soul and it really only makes life more precious.
No heaven, no reincarnation.
Hence, this one chance you have is meaningful.
The core of Buddhism is exactly this lol
No soul, no reincarnation, no heaven
Nothing but Right Now
@@OfAngelsAndAnarchistthat's the basics, everything is all right now, past, future, you, me... all in one. OM 🕉 is you though, YOU. And it is normally translated as the soul
@@sexylazercatwizard past/future don’t actually exist outside the mind
Try to do something in the past, try to do something in the future.
It can’t be done and doesn’t actually even make any sense.
You can only do anything, be or exist in the present. That’s all that actually exists.
An ever shifting Now.
lol
It’s only the present moment
To be fair orignal V "dies" multiple times throughout the story. Yet we see a continuation in all but arasaka contract ending and suicide ending.
My theory is that the relic chip just pushes the neural activity to the neural co processor when the default brains flatlines.Hence maintaining a continuation in consciousness that the player experience.
The neural surgeon talks of similar procedure after the V johnny seperation.
Hence, the soul itself could have been digitised.
This is intriguing for a sequel you start the game as you currently overpowered V and do a mission to get the new body. but because of the new body you lose your cyberware and stuff bringing you back to level 1.
Didn’t that happen with the nusa ending
Vs body was made quick and dirty so it can’t handle cyberware anymore because of its delicate state
NUSA replaced so much of V that it should only be possible with a transplant into a new body
I actually thought about this in my original playthrough of 2077 I'm surprised that biotech isn't talk about more in the game
I feel that they might have more involvement in PL. Seeing as they have a few facilities we haven't had access to yet. Even their primary cloning facility is in night city
@@LayedBackGamers god I hope we get to see some cloning in PL I'm ready exited
@@LayedBackGamers you would think given the fact they have the ability to fully realize immortality, if they work together, they might have some dealings behind the scenes that we don't know about.
I actually think the solution to Vs situation is embedded in the game already. You can catch a couple of news articles in the game where they talk about a treatment for an otherwise untreatable neurodegenerative disorder. Specifically, they use nanites to rebuild the damaged tissue on a constant basis. Effectively, it's exactly the opposite version of what's happening to V. Now they did say it cost a rather paltry 600,000 eddies a month for said treatment. But if you were just going to steal the tech in the first place, who cares how much it costs?
It's not really in doubt that other Megacorps have the resources to save V. Helman was trying to defect to Kang Tao, and suggests that V go to them for help.
V responds that Kang Tao would be more interested in exploiting the Bio-chips technology than saving their life. The same applies for all the other Mega-corps.
It's not that they can't save V. It's that they can't be trusted, that you'd get another variation of the Devil ending, that V would end up a prisoner.
That's the message of the Game. In order to live freely, you need to accept death as a part of life.
Finally someone says this I’ve been wondering this exact thing if a body with the same dna is the problem why not just clone V and put him in his new body
I'm surprised Arasaka hasn't gotten their hands on the research since 2023
@@LayedBackGamers agreed especially with them considered to be the top corp or at the very least even with militech and having their hands in everything also I thought the don’t fear the reaper ending was the cannon ending and the phantom liberty dlc is a prequel to the vanilla ending?
@@LayedBackGamers probably for the same reason their entire child Netrunner gonk unit got massacred, no runners were able to forage the data in the deep net
I assume Arasaka has been more focused on not being destroyed, I would also assume they gotta start from scratch so they might try to set that up again in the future? No clue
I think the whole point is that no matter how many bodies you make, his mind was completely catatonic since it basically became Johnny Silverhand. Its like cloning a celebrity’s body. Sure they’re the same person in function, but without the experience and knowledge are they really the same person? Even if V is soul killed, is that really HIM? No. There is a clear difference between Artificial Constructs and an actual person. Though it’s an interesting theory though
Honestly it would be SUPER freaking cool to be running through biotechnica in a sequel or something as a completely different and unconnected protagonist to just come across a cloning vat with a mostly grown clone in it that used the model of the last V you played as if there was a cp2077 save for it to read.
I definitely hope they make use of previous Save data. It would make the next game feel much more Immersive and our previous playthrough more impactful. Even if we aren't playing as V
Didn't expect you to address the "consciousness vs. personality and memories" problem I've had with the game (which that problem is part of the game's point, part of why I love it). To everyone else, it's V. Even to soul-killed V themselves, it's V. The pre-soul-killer V is actually dead and gone like you said, something I was a little disappointed they didn't acknowledge in the game before entering Mikoshi.
This is a lot like Soma, in that you have a person's consciousness being transferred multiple times, and each "host" is an echo of the original. Who V is now is the post-SoulKiller V, whose life started the moment the relic resuscitated them from death. To themselves they're V, even if they're an echo
This theory could work except for one major problem with it that is actually spelled out in the game itself.
There is no untainted record of V's original genetic code.
The moment Relic activated it started modifying V's brain and body to make it more suitable for Johnny's engram to take over. This included rewriting V on a genetic level. This is actually mentioned in the game as a reason they can't just dump V into a new body. It has to be genetically similar enough to her original body to take the engram, but they don't have her original genetic code to make a new body that would be appropriate. Even by the time she wakes up in Vik's clinic, it's already too late as her genetic code has been changed beyond what would work for a clone body.
Everyone is thinking "You can't use someone else's body," and they're right. Picking someone off the street won't work; the engram doesn't have the right genetic code. However, cloning would be a different story, since a clone could be the correct genetic code. As as been pointed out, V's genetic code pre-relic exists. It's at Vic's office, because genetic mapping would be SOP for patients. Arasaka would also have this as part of V's employee file. Biotechnica knows how to create a clone-they just need a genetic template to work from
I didn't know about Biotechnica or cloning tech for sure existing since they aren't really mentioned in the game and I'm not really familiar with the original tabletop, but I did think of a similar solution that the game either overlooks or disregards for the sake of narrative drama.
You can hear and see mentions in-game that completely synthetic cyborg bodies exist, which is referred to as "full chrome". The game says you're still dying after getting the Engram removed because of genetic damage, and you could only get a new body if it had compatible genetics. But you they could just download your mind into a full-cyborg body in the meantime.
There's also in-game ads in the background that mention a new treatment that repairs genetic damage that no one mentions in the endings either.
Hey man don't know if I commented about this on your videos before but love the lore you've been doing for Cyberpunk.
Can't wait for more theories. No one else does it like you. Hope your channel geta big, you deserve it!
Choom, I really appreciate the support it means a lot to me that you took the time to comment such kind words. I definitely hope to continue growing and reaching as many people as possible. I love creating this content!
5:19 it's weird that Arasaka publicly announced that their dead CEO successfully take over his son's body. It would be smart keep this type of secret be keep hidden.
Edit: Just realized that Arasaka advertising Secure your Soul program.
It's a power move.
Arasaka is saying "We can replace a person's entire psyche. You don't want to fuck with us. Because we can replace yours, too."
Right but also they hold a lot of power in doing so. Especially because Saburo is a man of Japan.
The relic changes V's body into a template for johnny, implied on a cellular level, you could say they can find a sample of v's original tissue to make a clone, like from their eyes after they got kiroshi's or from the bullet necklace they wear having grey matter on it
It still wouldn't matter, since you can't transfer a consciousness, you can only copy and paste it. V would still die in their old body while a clone would get all their memories. This video is pure copium.
@@Finckelstein shut up nerd, they can lol. new body, put V on the relic chip and do the same thing that johnny did to V- the relic is the key.
@@Finckelstein and who cares? the copy believes he is the original and every one believe he is the original. good
There are some very strange similiarities between V and johnny and what happened to the jefferson's something johnny notes also take into account with his six month expiration any chance at finding a cure would be pointless because his own body is destroying itself cause it views V's neuron's as an intruder If there is any cure outside of being soulkilled by arasaka it would be very tightly held by the rein's of whoever was pulling the strings of the jeffersons and the man with blue eyes however like all things cyberpunk such technology that could help him would be probably be worse then just dying I think whatever cure he could find would be worse then the illness. Remember V died once already its more of a tragedy same thing as edgerunners the only real difference is how does V choose to die alone surrounded by enemies and dead as a legend to be remembered in night city OR dying surrounded by loved ones and those you actually care about. OR dying forgotten and not even remembered by a single soul because of your sheer desire to live by selling your own soul to the very thing that keeps night city going. So many tough choices finding a cure at any point was futile you can tell in the dialogue with Johnny and V when they discuss their options have johnny take over OR live out the six months.
While Biotechnica is one of the least explored corporations in Cyberpunk, what little we are given in the game as well as Edge Runners, incorporated with what you've uncovered im the source material makes absolutely perfect scenario for V to have the situation remedied with the technology they possess. If you take the info given that Biotechnica and Militech have a working relationship a Super Soldier type technology combining Clones with AI ( IE Bobby Fett) and Militech under NUSA being at odds makes for the perfect insertion of Phantom Liberty.
At the same time the game does not explore biomaterial or nanomaterial. There's only cyberware. Biotechnica only had to confine itself to a decorative role.
@@artchaos6895 yes, but in the Biotechnica area there's a few things going on that gives bits and pieces about Biotechnica's quote unquote behind the scenes stuff which got a little not alot but a little bit of more light in edgerunners and source material aligns Biotechnica with Militech. Plus other concepts without a direct link kind of hint that Biotechnica dabbles in organ and tissue reproduction.
@@valerieaddy9976 I don't mind, but it's only decorative for the lore. No element of gameplay is supported in this sense, whether at the level of drugs, biological implants, organ transplants, exotic treatments, chimeras and biptids. Maybe some will be developed in the next opus, but here biotechnica is in fact confined to a secondary role.
@@artchaos6895 oh I do get it Biotechnica as of now is just window dressing and mur-murrs, but looking at the totality of it, with Phantom Liberty coming and a sequel already storyboarding along with all the wonderful background source material Layed Back gives us you can definitely delve deeper than just the surface and really see alot more going on than just the cinematics or limited scope of things presented. What I mean to say in the short of it is Creator Mike Pondsmith is onboard, it's really his baby along with the source material so have fun looking at the totality of the work, gleem from it what you can, enjoy this channel which brings excellent content (he should be a marketing agent for Mr. Pondsmith or CDPR) and replay the game in a different light. I have played it a lot and got something new and different every time, yet this channel gets me thinking, remembering bits of information I deemed unconnected and played it all over again and continually feel just like a real world Cyberpunk has so many lenses to see the game through and so much more to offer the deeper you go down the rabbit hole. Kudos to this fine gentlemen by getting people talking, pondering and enjoy the whole experience over and over again #Layed Back Gamers
@@valerieaddy9976 It is true that I did not know this channel before coming across this video but it seems to be doing a very good job. video that I also found following research on Biotechnica (I am French, little chance that I come across it by pure chance) in order to master a corporate campaign on cyberpunk 2020 on fuel crisis atmosphere.
Wait but Alt said V returning to his body was killing him specifically because the body’s cell’s were attacking itself because they were now coded for Johnny. That would mean that a cloned body would retain the same cellular changes which reject V. Unless someone somewhere has some of V’s DNA pre-relic, which would be one hell of a coincidence.
Well, the first person I'd think would have Vs original DNA is vik. Since he's his personal friend and ripperdocl
@@LayedBackGamerson top of that it is part of the story to be worked on before the chip occurs, his eyes so definitely has to have some pre chip DNA around there somewhere
Three thoughts on this. First, if the relic didn't take other until V died, possiblely the bullet necklace may have some unaffected DNA on it. Second, in the CORPO beginning Arasaka would have V's fully medical records, that may include samples. Last, in the cut scene an the beginning that has V and Jackie going into business together V gets a tooth knocked out.
It wasn't his DNA that was killing him. But his nueral network, so his brain. They can always clone his body and it will be fine.
@@LayedBackGamers you can get DNA from Hair or Skin cells. It would not be very far fetched to simply go into V's apartment and grab some hair from the shower drain. :/
There are 2 methods that I can think of how v could be saved.
1: Full Borg, like Adam Smasher but more. In the end of the game Alt says V’s body has already accepted Johnny as the dominant personality and will be constantly fight against V, so why not replace the body party’s that rebel and become a walking terminator
2: cloning, in the far future they have synthetic meat created in factories, so why not go one step further. Recreate V’s body so the rampancy isn’t there.
You forget that every v clone will be corrupted with Johnny personality during his 6 months life time, I doubt v have his own dna sample from time before biochip 😢
@@68freak victor must have his dna, he is his doc
Also depending on what choice you had when sending jackies body away and how they progress the story you can also clone jackie
The only issue with this theory I can think of is that Alt tells to V "DNA reconfiguation has progressed too far" when asked if V can return to their body.
This miiiight make it so that a cloned body would retain the reconfiguration done by the Relic, since it has fiddled with the DNA of the body itself.
On the other hand though, it should not be impossible at all to find DNA from V from before the insertion of the Relic. Like blood splatter, hair, or whatever in their appartment, or even a replaced limb somewhere RIpperdocs dispose of them to. So with that in mind it should be possible to create a clone of the unmodified V!
Awesome video
This was a thought while planning out the theory. In a world of corps though they definitely have his DNA somewhere so I agree with you that it would still likely be possible to find
I keep seeing this argument of nobody having V's base genetic template. Know who would? Viktor, right off the bat. He has data and tissue samples from V from before the heist.
@@LayedBackGamers would like to also bring up the fact that Jonny would have the same constraint. Why is it that his dna can overwrite a body but v can’t? If one were to say the circumstances were the reason what’s to stop you from recreating it to force the process again? Also you could absolutely find samples in his apartment as well even if crops don’t have it or don’t want to fork it over for dna
Yeah that’s… not how dna works
Like, at all
@@LayedBackGamersv’s dNA would be with arasaka already if you do the corp route. The others, who knows.
Id say this theory is treading the waters of Altered Carbon, which in itself is a fantastic piece of Science fiction. However, given Cyberpunks subset a few well placed hits on obtaining biotechnica assets someone could in theory gather the items/research required to clone V, Johnny, Alt, or whoever bringing him/her back to the physical realm.
2:46 the AI intelligence that Biotechnica has seems alot like blade runner, and i love it
It's pretty likely I feel like, that biotechnica practically becomes the Tyrrell Corp. They're bound to reach that point as it was already in the talks that they'd mass produce armies
Pretty sure V has been an engram version of himself the moment Dex shoots him in the face. The chip specifically revives V afterward and how else could the chip do that, if it's only meant to save and load the screenshot of the brain?
I think one avenue that has been overlooked is using the very nanites of the prototype relic chip. Reverse engineer them with Alt's help, and using a blood sample of V from before the heist, it should be possible to use the nanites to wage a war against the relic chip and resequence V;s DNA. That would allow for V to not die. However, on the cloning front, as long as there was a uncorrupted DNA sample of V, it should be easy to clone them.
It's weird that between the 2020s and 2077, Soulkiller, Soulkiller alternatives, personality constructs, and cloning are treated like a much more rare and obscure concept.
I know there was the DataKrash and Time of the Red, but I find it hard that those events pushed knowledge backward that far.
True however with most data being stored on the net like our timeline, they lost it all several times over due to said events meaning they had to restart or find the original researchers
@T. Smith Or track down the data. Things weren't all deleted. Lots of data got swapped. A 60 year old grandma in London may have had her recipe collection swapped out with classified military documents, and vice versa.
I always felt that V had a shot at survival, but only in specific endings. That said, I also felt it was important to notice that there were other methods possible to bring about a happier ending for V. The Devil ending was essentially a write-off in my eyes, as there's no way Arasaka would allow V to return unless he could be made into a second Adam Smasher. The Star ending likely would put V too far out of range of the necessary resources to reliably expect him to survive the 6 month period that Alt gave him, even with the "Maybe more" part of her estimation. AI do not make mistakes like this, she knows that 6 months is not the cap, but it is the most likely timeline. However, The Star is also the only chance for V to have a child to pass on his legacy, with the romanced Panam, a female V would not survive time necessary to birth a child. The Sun is the only ending that would allow for V to have the resources, influence, and connections necessary to achieve a long life, between gene therapy to lengthen his life and likely with Mr. Blue Eyes providing the final pieces after the raid on the Crystal Palace. So, generally, those are my headcanons for those endings until I hear differently. ^.^
I get where you are coming from cause I thought the same thing about romanced panam, but I think that CDPR wanted to show that no matter how hard you try some people get to live and some have to die. And really, whats V's death compared the thousands of people she kills across the game?
Wait wait wait. Implanting a construct into a clone....... Why did my first thought go to bringing Alt back to flesh, or reviving Johnny? It's not like there aren't any hints that Alt is back (the story Black Dog), or that Relic Johny isn't the same engram that Spider Murphy made with a Soulkiller variant she had lying around....😅
The thing that got me the most is realising, that V dies first when shot in the head and dumped in the garbage, which is alright because you haven't done much with him as a character, but afterwards, after all the side quests and story, when entering mikoshi, V really fully dies, from that point on you're just a copy of V. That shit hit me like a truck.
I wouldn't be surprised if this is the way it would go once you go through the contract ending, Arasaka maybe contracting or working together with Biotechnica as they formerly were business partners at one point in the 1990s but this time instead of trading soldiers for bioweapons, it would be in order to further the Secure Your Soul project
I feel like if CDPR does go with this its gonna be exclusive to only certain endings, specifically I feel like the Star. Panam mentions that they are gonna use every contact they got in Arizona to help V, meaning its quite possible they can get a contact with Biotechnica and do this.
I dunno if I'd say im 100 percent convinced, but it is an interesting idea. I guess my main questions would be along the lines of why WOULD biotechnica help V. Id also like to also point out that if we were to follow this idea of V attempting to either get a favor from Biotechnica, or at least get in close with someone who knows/is connected to them it could be part of the "deal" being made with Mr. Blue eyes in the path of glory ending. If we are talking about human bodies being controlled by an A.I., mr blue eyes is suspect number 1, and could have at least some links back to biotechnica. Overall interesting video though.
I really hope we get to continue V's story in the cyberpunk sequel!!
Only time will tell. I think there's a possibility that he is more of a verbal story and reference in ORION. As to avoid a confirmed ending but also make his impact clear. Such as with Morgan Blackhand. It would be cool though to be able to upload our previous save so our personal V can appear in the flesh, or like you said have their story continued
V story should be never touched after ending, like edgerunners, no happy endings, wrong people, wrong city
@@68freak I agree with you. But then again I kinda like to imagine that Judy uploaded V on a chip and she will be the first person to live on forever but not with a body.
@@68freakthat would be too repetitive & predictable. I say V should have an unconventional ending that sticks two middle fingers to both happy & bad endings. And here’s a good idea… V was actually an A.I. with a mysterious past. As the story progresses, there are slight hints. And by the end, V’s shown to have been modeled after either a special forces operative, or mercenary that died around 1989. Or you can have V survive, only to become the villain in Project Orion.
Sad thing is, we’re not actually saving V, just making a copy of their conscious or matter what happens (even saving V) they will die and a part of him live on, unless they’re able to full download and transfer V’s consciousness into a new one then there will be chance original V will live
As a side note, I imagine copying the conscious similar to SOMA, so there is a 50% chance your conscious is moved
You can't transfer a consciousness. Period. One could make a case that copying one could be theoretically possible, but a transfer is just flat out impossible. You can make the perfect copy but it still won't be the same person.
You forgot that V died and was revived by the chip at the beginning of the game.
The chip's purpose is to convert the brain pattern into a digitalized form and later load it into the brain. So... ya know,, the V you're playing for most of the game is already a copy.
@@LecherousLizardI wish I didn’t read that 😢
@@LecherousLizard That explains why delamain's car(the crazy one) said V is already dead.
I've never considered this before ... but uhh V's story seems to be similar to that of Case from Neuromancer. Who isn't dying but has seemingly incurable neuro damage stopping him from going into cyberspace, which was his entire life and his job. He was a cyber criminal that stole from his bosses one day and they punished him by giving him a russian mycotoxin ruining his nerves and ability to go into cyberspace.
But even more so is the story of that lady that gives you your first heist mission then tries to scam all sides. Her side quest that you do with Judy, is super super super inspired by the back story of Molly Millions
Molly is a 304 working at a doll house. She didn't want to do it .. but it was easy you know? She needed the money. She wanted to upgrade herself and become a razorgirl. (cybernetically enhanced chick with razers that shoot out of her nails) but the cybernetics are expensive af. So she starts doing doll work.
At first it's great... she wakes up, sometimes a little sore with a bunch of money. It's like she goes to sleep, wakes up richer. So she keeps doing it .. And her bosses seem to love her, they give her raises and treat her like loyalty. One day she goes to Japan for another surgery / upgrade (for her cybernetics) and one of the doc's nick her doll chip by accident. So it starts malfunctioning .. first she gets dreams, most of them horrible, some of them she really enjoys .. she's basically seeing her self in third person being f'd by strangers. But then over time it becomes worse and worse and the dreams turn into nightmares. One day she wakes up, covered in blood, next to her the lifeless body of a teen girl. On the other side of the bed a fat old guy she recognizes.. it's the mayor.
Turns out her bosses had found out about her modifications. They normally don't allow such things.. but they quickly found out some clients really have a thing for dangerous cybernetically enhaced chicks and then it quickly turns into them using her for snuff stuff.
This is extremely close to what happens to that girl in cyberpunk. Moreover the dollhouse, how it works, the doll chips, even how the dollhouse looks is very similar in game. And it was all made up by Gibson in the 80s. And it's kinda wild.. considering how popular only fans is.. I imagine if someone invented such a doll chip, with the corrosion of our values and the changes in our sexual attitudes. it wouldn't surprise me if like 20/50% of women in the future have worked at one time or another at such a doll house.
Can't pay rent? Spend a day at the doll house
Can't pay for a surgery? A few days of dolling
Really want that cool expensive new purse, shoes etc? doll house .. and before you know it it's a thing that's part of the female college experience or "doll work is real work! " type sht.
05:40 it wouldnt be possible to make clone of V, this would be because V's body and mind arent V's anymore. So cloning wouldnt be possible unless theres a sample of V's DNA and engram of V's mind. Cloning V's mind would result in clone having either brain damage or another Silverhand in the clones head too. Cloning processes might also clone nanites from the relic because they have attached to V, which would result in clone having the same issue as the original. If cloning is done after Silverhand has been removed, same issue would be there still. V's bodys tissue (DNA) and mind is already "tainted" which would result in clone having the same issue and same about six months to live.
All this theory would require is the possession of Vs DNA before the Relic. Which it's a world ran by corps so there's 100% DNA somewhere. Better yet. Vik has records and samples of Vs DNA. It wouldn't be nearly as much of an issue with the engram. Seeing as Alt Cunningham successfully split the two in Mikoshi and the only issue left was the body being too far gone. Clearly if there was a body identical to his original he would've been fine. This is of course all speculation but that's my take
@@LayedBackGamers (EDIT: Also i forgot. V's has cyberware, so DNA sample would need to likely be from V before larger cyberware or anything like that, because of metals and other residue from cyberware.) Thing is that it would require perfectly preserved sample of V's full DNA and copy of V's mind ( aka engram) before the Relic. Vik doesnt seem like high end operation and doesnt have budget for keeping sample of V's complete DNA sequence. Vik would need 100% perfect complete copy of V's DNA . Copy of V's mind would still likely be require because even after Alt has separated V and Silverhand parts of V's mind would still be missing parts and thats without starting to speculate on long term damage done to V's mind when it was partly overwritten. Only reason we dont really see this damage is likely because it hasnt manifested in a noticeable way before V's six months are up.
@@CriticalHitRabbit You don't need a physical sample, just the DNA sequence. With genetic editing, you could alter DNA from a donor to match the original. We can edit DNA now, with things like CRISPR/Cas. And we know Biotechnica is capable of creating clones from combining DNA from different sources and editing them. In 2077 it shouldn't be impossible, just extremely difficult
I think you are quite right and i believe that is where Nomad scenario is actually heading through that mentioned contacts. Could be great DLC.
Just heard in the radio maximum Mike talking about biotechnica bringing back extinct species and mentions a black lab up north.
I'd say this would be doable for most endings, but I am still wondering what would happen with the endings in which V doesn't get soulkilled. There are some of those, namely the suicide ending (in which V obviously dies) and the alternative route for the Devil Ending in which V rejects Arasaka's final offer.
Great video choom i was only able to watch bits and pieces during lunch but biotechnia i can see working their grubby hands on V but once again like any corpo theyre gonna want something in return...
Coporate greed is what leads to the downfall of all....
Definitely. Biotechnica is weird in that sense because honestly they do the most for the world. Sure they're still a Corp that does a lot of bad but they do a lot of good.
This matches with the technology of Altered Carbon. Eventually you are a construct, transmitted from one sleeve to another, but origional body is or may be, no more.
i remember saying this when i heard them talking about their new discovery at the end of the game. It's random but in the background and v glances at it for a moment and i was like, yeah that's an easy fix
Well done. I went a good distance down this same path - I didn't have the BioTechica piece. The secret ending would be Canon and the Blue Eyes (a Morgan Blackhand Construct) would provide the tech for the clone body somehow. I really like this it fills a lot of gaps for me. How "they" (who ever "they" are) get the engram from Alt - it does exist and consequently can be used.
V is going through the onset of autoimmune reject where his body is attempting to purge itself of his nervous system, in other words Multiple sclerosis. The thing is... we have the technology right now to treat V but there generally is no cure.
There is radio news brodcast in CP2077 that BioTechnica(if I didn't fck it up with different corp) just had breakthrough first in history by developing treatment that can restore even severely damaged neurological tissue and etc. V was hit with soulkiller anyway by Alt to split him with Jonny so he is construct anyway - but his body was already changed by chip to fit Jhonny, so the real issue is V's body rejecting V's construct at the end of CP2077(endings that include assult on Arasaka). Unfortunate as it is - only at the Devil ending V is not "soulkilled", if ofc V chooses not to sign the contract with 'saka. All and all...."City always wins"
I haven't finished the game yet, but if V actually stays on the construct (which is my caveat, don't think alt would want that without knowing where the relic goes after and it sounds like it'd be no sweat for her. So more safety in exchange for basically no effort.) then V will eventually be recovered and loaded into a new body either way. I just don't know if we'd see that in cannon.
I've been wondering if everything in the game from the moment V is shot by Dex is a simulation. That is, what B expeiences is the Relic rewriting V's conscious to accomodate "JS"?
Something I saw during CB2077 that made me wonder if Biotechnica can save V or not was that during the game, there is an breaking news for Biotechnica on tv where they say that they have developed a cure for multiple sclerosis, that it is now possible to rebuild nerve tissue.
I don't have any medical knowledge to say if sclerosis has anything to do with the problem V has, but when I heard "rebuild nerve tissue" I thought: "Man, couldn't that save V"?
Also I love the music in the back ground really gives your video content a Eerie feel and mystery Great work.
That's straight from the game, yo
Most of my videos use the end credit music of 2077. It's a great vibe and perfectly encaptured the tone of the game. It's my go to! Thanks for the kindness choom
Interesting, so basically the relic does its thing and makes Vs original body into Johnny Silverhand and Vs not so much corrupted conciousness that is still mostly V lives on in an identical body and in the end, V get twin with the attitude of a Johnny Silverhand. I like this, this definately has the potential to strike some chaos in Night City.
So I’ll go ahead and start here, Cyberpunk 2077 is the extent of my background with this universe and it’s lore but when going through the story I picked up on the whole engram using nano machines to rework V’s DNA. In reality for the legend ending all V would need to do is hire a genetics lab to reconstruct their pre-engram DNA then use a similar nano tech(or in our real world case Crispr) to undo or overwrite the damage done by the engram. The only problem then is the time factor. V’s body would most likely start breaking down like you’d see with radiation sickness patients if they couldn’t move quick enough to secure a dna sample then synthesize a solution.
That's my only issue I take with rewriting Vs DNA or reversing the nano tech. I feel as though his body might not be able to hand so much stress. Especially rewriting back in the middle of a transition. Though I find it to be a very possible chance of survival for V if done right. Especially since he should have his original DNA with vik, on his bullet necklace, or somewhere else
Damn, from what I picked up in game I thought biotechnica was mainly into food production like bio engineered crops and synthetic "meat". Never guessed that they were into this level stuff
Might be good to know that they probably use human cloning for meat production as well
@@LayedBackGamers oh gods I'm evil. I laughed way too hard at that implication
I honestly think that V is being soulkilled before signing the contract in the devil ending. They experiment on him/her, cloning the body and uploading engram on it. That's why V's stuck in a loop. In westworld they had Delos cloned in exactly same way.
Not a bad idea choom!
Hadn't thought of it that way, but that's an evil ending. Perfectly Arasaka
I really hope the sequel gives us more insight into militech and biotechnica. 2077 focuses super heavily on arasaka and, with them having moved their main operations out of the NUSA by 2079, it leaves room for us to explore the intricacies of the other two big players in America. Maybe some sort of conflict for economic control over night city now that arasaka is out of the picture
I'd love this followed up on in the sequel, the Aldecaldos did head to Arizona in the Nomad ending
Perhaps Panam could pull strings and call-in some favors to get in with Biotechneca for a plot like this
To be fair, most if not all corporations have the resources and expertise to keep V alive. Would they though? Absolutely not. Which is why although it’s cool to think V could’ve made it, there really was no chance with the moment V entered Konpeki Plaza.
Get their own Adam smasher 2.0
I mean I wouldn't say just any corporation has the resources but a few do. Such as night Corp. And yeah they'd have a Smasher / blackhanf which is very handy
@@LayedBackGamers And turning V into a psychopathic slave of a megacorp is a better ending than the ones we have? LOL
I think your theory is actually the Canon ending if there was to be a sequel or DLC of Vs story
where no matter what ending you got somehow V would learn off Biotechnica and the cloning facilities and try to make a clone of themselves and transfer their consciousness into it
and like someone else wrote the best scenario would be Johnny takes over your body but gets an Ingram of your consciousness and takes it with him to find a cloning facility
in the star ending v has a really good chance of survival, since all the characters (especially vik) dont seem to treat you like youre gonna die in a few months, its just v needs to be cautious about taking immunosupressants (probably) and making sure the chip doesnt get dust in it while the modified relic """replaces""" their brain
As long as the tissue sample for growing v’s clone was obtained before the body was taken over too much by Johnny this would work.
Because there wouldn’t be much point to replicating a body that was already inhospitable to V.
So maybe it could be something a ripperdoc had on hand? Like maybe Vic would have some of v’s old flesh preserved to get a good dna sample from?
Well it could be solved. Hellman said the Relic was attacking V's neural system. A cloned body doesnt need to be a 1:1 copy especially since we're slowly gaining the ability to edit DNA irl. Then theres the BioChip itself. Its made V's body compatible to Johnny before. Who's to say they cant have Nanites do the same for V this time? Especially with an intact neural system this time
I love to brainstorm Cyberpunk post-canon endings in my spare time and my own theories are almost the exact same as the ones in this video. My idea was that V would locate Johnny's body (which, in Cyberpunk Red, was cryogenically frozen and preserved). Given that Biotechnica can grow clones, I don't see why they couldn't also regrow select parts of one's body as well. Therefore, my idea was that this technology would be able to repair the necrotic tissue and therefore restore Johnny's vitals, then his engram could be put back into his body. As for V, I also had the clone idea! It makes so much sense in the context of the universe and Biotechnica is such an untapped wealth of lore potential.
However, I do kind of diagree that an engram is just information and not the person themselves. I'm gonna sound like a snob so forgive me lol, but although this holds up from a Watsonian (in-universe) perspective, it doesn't make sense from a Doylist (meta) perspective. The entire story arc of Cyberpunk is focused on the idea of hope, including the idea that Johnny was able to change from being an asshole to everyone around him to deeply loving someone who was massively different from him. I feel like the entire relationship and character arcs of Johnny and V would sort of feel null if Johnny were nothing more than a really clever AI. The idea of religion and spiritual souls is brought up several times throughout the story without the narrative discrediting the ideas (Sinnerman, Misty's tarot cards, the Buddhist monk's meditations, etc). Call me crazy, but I genuinely believe that there is still some soul within the engrams, whether it be just a replication of human brain signals or one's spiritual soul literally linking to the engram as it's transferred.
This is my thing with the whole soulkiller situation. There's some examples in which it feels obvious that the engram is seperste from the original. But in some instances such as Alt, the writing made it feel pretty clear she was ripped from her body and still able to return normally before being unplugged. So it's hard to entirely say without pondsmith weighing in but he likes the ambiguity. I also agree with the idea that V could find silvethand in the flesh. I made a video not too long ago about it. I'd say that story is likely to appear in the ttrpg though over a gsme
@@LayedBackGamers Ooh, interesting! I'll definitely check it out.
There is also the nanotechnology treatment. While playing one might hear about it in the news. Alt could use those to save the original V.
biggest problem with this theory is getting the actual material for cloning. Since we don't know what specific areas of V is being overwriten much less know wether the process is gradual all over the body or only affecting certain areas at a time. The only safe assumption that can be made about V's body is that before being soulkilled is that Johnny's enngram should have taken over at least 60-ish percent since V is terminal, and im pretty sure we actually have an exact-ish number with how the game measures our relation to Johnny and knowing how egotistical and narcassistic he is it would mean we're becoming more like him as he likes us more. Additionally when checking the meter in the ending where we give our body to Johnny we see that the number is 100 while in other endings the max we get is 70, enough to ensure we most definitely die but not enough to completely take us off the board just yet. As such if the starting material itself is contaminated the process of replication will only further copy it. But maybe they'll do something with it on phantom liberty considering the spoilers.
Edit: Also as a side note the previous "subjects" that were brought back didn't have their body's genetic makeup tampered with pre or post process however in V's case his or her genetic makeup has been actively altered to the extreme, or so we're told by everyone, that is even when considering the genetic data that was taken upon being soulkilled in mikoshi like in johnny's case whose engram is overwriting us with him. As such it would only be possible for V to live if V's parents, close relatives or siblings, if they had any, were to fork over some samples to get the ball rolling. Or if they had stashed some form of genetic material pre-heist that was relatively fresh, which I doubt it is or they even did.
Well I think you're underestimating the easy access of DNA in the Cyberpunk world. There's corps, governments, the military, etc. Then in gsme we can see that Vik keeps the information and I'd assume samples for V from before the heist. As well as the fact that V has a necklace with a bullet that shot him. Meaning his old DNA is attached
I always thought if V body will survive with Johnny mind in it, fusing Jhonny and V mind into a single consciousness could work to save V. Think like Johnny+all V's Memories. Certainty if I were V I'd choose to fuse with Johnny rather than Alt
Interesting theory, but it's missing a big point: Biotechnica has an acive reason to not offer V a new body, given that he, as an outsider, cost them a lot of manpower, and time in negotiations.
Without V, it is unlikely that Panam returns to the Aldecaldos, who, if you recall, were in talks with Biotechnica about a long-term labor or logistics contract at the time. Without Panam, Saul signs away the clan into Biotechnica's service, unimpeded, and i find it highly unlikely that Panam was an unknown quantity to them, since prudence would dictate that they understand the dynamics within this group...
I thought there was some in-game dialogue explaining why this wasn't possible, though I may be remembering incorrectly. Something about the relic's nanites already having rewritten too much of V's own DNA in order to facilitate his/her mind being overwritten.
Not only biotechnica, it stormtech corporation who are allies of the aldecaldos have interests and projects in genetic engineering
Interesting, yeah I can see that. Also makes me realize there's way more source material that I haven't had a chance to dive into beyond the game. Good video choom, thanks.
Thanks for your kindness and support choom. I'm always happy to bring more people to the source material, every bit is a great read and opportunity to change your perspective of 2077!
He not only possess the actual relic but also its schematics and a past version of soulkiller, so he could just sell it to biotechnica rather than a front assault
since the upgrades seem to not matter when giving them to normal people why not make a robot out of the upgrades using a something similar to Adam smasher because in the game a lot of him is still intact when v kills him and there is spare parts in Adam smashers stash in the docks
Just discover your channel and i absolutely love these theory, because love this cyberpunk universe
Keep up the good work 👍
I know this is a late response but thanks a lot for the kind comment choom. I love Cyberpunk and being able to create content for others to view about it. I'm glad you ended up here and feel free to join the Discord to chat anytime!
I'd give this double thumbs up if I could. You've done some serious digging.
First game I played (instead of GM'd and one I ran so many times for new players) and boy was it an epic.
(I've been darkly mumbling for years about how I thought this WAS going to be an option to save V when the game launched.)
...also, it makes those rumours about Biotechnica turing Nomads into 'werewolves' a lot less humourous now.
One of the first games I participated in was Land of the Free. It's crazy how much Lore is packed into that adventure. My party had ended up in dealings with Arasaka. Letting their netrunner Crack into Adrianas head to steal all the information on cloning. To me this feels like a Canon outcome. Seeing as they end up with cloning facilities in 2023. The adventure even went out of its way to make it very clear Adriana held enough info to replicate the facilities. This was a fun video so I'm glad you enjoyed choom
@@LayedBackGamers You had my curiosity, but now you have my attention...
This is just one of the MANY plot holes in CP2077, here are a few:
-Why did Jackie not use a hypo?
-Why did Delimain not have an onboard AutoDoc but does have "combat mode"?
-What is Delimain's "comprehensive" health coverage and why does it let the contract preclude a ripperdoc?
-Why can't I actually buy a "Jackie Wells" in the Afterlife?
-Why does TBug suck as a hacker? I mean really, she had a good 5 seconds of warning where she could have disconnected. So much for firewalls.
-Why does the Relic require storage at low temps but is designed (and saved by Jackie) to insert into the human body?
Technical complaints:
-How do revolvers have silencers but sniper/DMRs don't?
-How can Tech weapons not use silencers? Just make the wall penetration not work with them like ricochets don't.
I could go on, but I don't have the time.
With the devil ending, there's already a good chance that Arasaka will bring V back to life when they eventually find a compatible body. For starters, they have a sense of honor but more importantly, they can always use a good merc, especially one whose obedience can be coerced if need be. They'd provide the body and download V but make it so that V needs regular treatment for the body to not reject the personality, treatment that coincidentally, only Arasaka can provide and of course they graciously will... so long as V remains in their good graces.
@@spookyghost515 You clearly didn't read what I wrote.
@@spookyghost515 Saburo is honorable, he prides himself on that. Plus, Arasaka has done everything they promised. They could have let V die, they didn't need him anymore but they tried to fix him. And they offer him free Secure your Soul services if he wants them or he can go and do whatever if he doesn't. Their help with a body might come at a price, as I said but they have no reason to betray V.
The issue is that due to how the Artifact works. Cloning wouldn't fix V.
The artifact specifically uses technology in a way to remap the brain completely. To the point that leaving it in will change the brain entirely to Johnny. But if you take it out, the body already views V's remaining brain matter as a cancer and kills it off. That's why V has 6 months left to live, That's how long it'll take before V's brain destroys itself from viewing it 'as' cancer.
Using soulkiller to make a new engram of V and shoving it into a new body or even his original doesn't work because at this point, the brain is already being copied in a state of self destruction. Every time the Engram got a new host, it would have 6 months to live before they'd die. And updating the engram with new experiences would in turn reduce that 6 month time limit further.
Due to Cancer being genetic and ones own cells attacking themselves or growing out of control. It's not something that could simply be snipped out of the code because it's the brain attacking itself. not the DNA causing replication without limit.
The 'only' way V could potentially survive would be to go the way of Smasher, No longer organic at all. Fully Robotic. Their mind would then exist in perpetuity as data that could restore itself, but they would lose the very things that made them human as a result. Which in itself isn't really surviving.
There's something worth considering about clones and putting AIs into their bodies. Part of the issue with AIs is they have limitations to their coding and what they can do. Even if they can write their own code to self-improve, they have to know what to code for. When it comes to biological issues, AIs simply don't have the relevant knowledge and experience. If you were to put an advanced AI into a human body, however, they're going to start utilizing that human brain to form mental connections that they didn't have access to. They're going to get dumped with naturally-producing chemicals that will introduce to them new experiences and new ways to think. The limitation of hardware and their own coding ceases to be a limiting factor when you put an AI into a human brain.
Cloning is a great theory but I believe the answer comes from BioDyne's experimental nanotech multiple-sclerosis treatments. You hear about this in game from an N54 news cast.
A reverse engineering of the nanites in the Relic would be a very viable solution. Just requires someone with the knowledge to do it, seeing as even Alt had no clue how it worked
I had the same theory similar to this like ‘what if’ Biotech was able to merge V and Johnny’s personality. But all in all love this theory
Thanks for the support choom! There's a lot of interesting possibilities in the Cyberpunk world, a merge would be very interesting seeing as it would make their situation more permanent. It definitely might be possible
I wonder: since becoming a construct, V loses his/her "soul" and just becomes data or "1s and 0s". With years passing in the Net, Alt becomes more robotic and is not like how she was as a person because of this digitalization. If V's engram were to be downloaded into a cloned body, would V also turn into a "robot" (much like Alt did) as times goes on? Does that also mean that Johnny, in the endings were V gives up control of his/her body, will do the same?
Anyway, thank you for the awesome content choom! I just subscribed!
An important difference is, that the engram of Alt was uploaded to the net and not chip inside a body. Also between 2013 and 2077 the Net crashed, which may affected Alt.
@@progamertwo-oh-oh-one890 Ah fair enough, I didn't even think of those two points.
I always thought people's sentiment online that V has no chance of surviving the 6 months was a bit defeatist to say the least, especially in a world like cyberpunk with all of the advances in medical science and nanite treatment.
Good video man.
Ingame and in the story, this would presumably be gonk talk as you put it.
We know Arasaka can't swing the neuronal repair V needs. Well they might be lying to us and figure they'd keep V on a USB stick until they need a really capable enforcer and then they'd clone them a new body.
We might figure that Mr. Blue eyes might be able to help. But then again what could he be doing that Alt can't?
From a technological point of view, V's Problem wouldn't be a problem for long. We see technology employing nanites to alter V's genome so that it would fit the Johnny Silverhand engram and the DNA data presumably attached to it.
Alt could've told the nanites to do the very same process again but now alter the V Body to fit the V engram.
But then again with the technology we see most of the plot of this story wouldn't make sense. We do see the process of aging being slowed down immensely. Hanako Arasaka was bown in 1999. She does not look her age. This isn't a process available to the highest elite. For the rich maybe but Rouge and the Samurai People aren't looking to be in their eighties.
Arasaka has technology to have nanites alter DNA. This whole aging business should be history to them and cloning a body should be trivial; We could clone Humans today, we're not doing that because of ethical considerations.
On a completely different note though, I thought for sure the whole MS treatment news that kept popping up in the news in Night City would for sure be implemented somehow into the story. I mean... why have the writers create something to do with potentially reversing the effects of MS when V is going through a rather similar thing... just for us to not be able to do anything about it? Even though the cost for 1 treatment alone is like 500,000 eddies, that could be a part of how V goes and demands they fix her or she storms their facility with a bunch of her friends, etc etc. I dunno. Just felt like there were a few things she may have not considered. Or maybe it was just the Devs and because of the Shareholders, they were out of time to create a storyline there.
I realized this in the playthrough but I was never able to find a avenue to pursue this idea.
It's tricky attempting to piece these ideas together. There's a lot of different sources to look through and not everything is always as it seems
They can use a full cyber-body, maby a blank clone-brain. But it wont work alone just with the person they intend to put in the robotic body. There have to be an A.I. and only WITH the A.I. is it posible sins the human brain isent designed to handel that massive amount of data at the same time. The A.I. however IS designed to do everything and can handel it. Might work with a full mechanical/synthetic brain.
Strangely, I know a Cyberpunk story that actually explores this exact same situation. It's called Night City: Legacy.
Damn.. I’d say this or a variation of this is 99% going to be canon for next expat. I dunno if they will have the brains to just continue your save files or if it will be standalone but yeah even in the ending in which Johnny takes over your body your engram might make it to a biotech I a clone… this would make V really super special in Cyberpunk.. finally a unkillable
Hero fighting the corpus.. with the help of Johnny… man this could make for amazing storytelling.. V and Johnny both fighting a war.. either being a mirror of eachother or becoming the same.. dude this would make such a good story
There's a good chance that the sequel doesn't follow V, BUT I would appreciate the use of save files to alter how V is spoken of in the sequel. Like references to your actual version of V. There's always a chance as well that Angel / Alt and the original Silverhand are still out there for V or Silverhand to encounter!
I really wonder how phantom liberty will tie in. Will it takes place in the middle of the original campaign or will it start after the end of the original. To start the addon with a clone would also explain how you have to build your character from the ground once more. I like that idea.
What if, early in the game after you got Johnny installed, but before he starts to take over, you go to mikoshi and just insert Johnny in there and not yourself. Because he hasnt taken over yet. Wouldn't that be a possibility.
This sounds like an amazing way to implement new game +, clone V with a different personality i.e background/choices.
That would be pretty interesting. I hope we can get a new game + feature in the future. Another way to go about a new game + would be as a brain dance feature. Not actually a brain dance but propose it as you running through what your V has recorded and making changes.
I would love to see this a super DUPER secret ending, but extremely difficult to achieve
Maybe the secret ending will change a bit at least dialogue wise with the new expansion. Would be nice to see
Man while i would love for this to actually become reality in the dlc or a sequel i don't think it will happen...especially since i don't see them continuing V's story....at least not as the main character and i doubt we will be playing in the next corporate war, at most we'd be able to create a character that was a veteran of the next war since i heard somewhere or from someone that the next game will take more inspiration from the table top when it comes to character creation, but who knows.
i hope they take more inspiration from the table top.
I can't lie how disappointed I was when the storyline of CP2077 was so incredibly linear.
I thought I could become a maxtac officer, be part of arasaka or militech. I thought it would be similar to New Vegas with the ability to help factions, go against them or join them and help them become the dominant force.
I have all the sourcebooks, thanks to a humble bundle sale, so when you said what page, I went and looked it up and was like OOOOOH~! XD Makes me wonder if this is going to be in Phantom Liberty....
i've always suspected that v could be saved if johnny and v agreed to share the body. so the big problem is that most of vs brain is now Johnny and rewriting the brain v is super destructive. but what if you tricked the chip into thinking that the merged state was the correct one? the reconstruction would stop and V could begin to heal. i;m sure johnny would like that option more than stealing V's body
Question is, how do you make this work?
I can't see why the biochip can't just reconstruct V's brain to accept his on conciousnes like it did for Johnny. Hell maybe if V does die after 6 months because Alt put his mind on that chip. If the chip stays in him all that time them the chip could activate again and bring V back to life but with 6 months of memories gone and all he remembers is entering the bathtub at Mikoshi as the chip nanite reconstructed the brain again to accept the conciousnes that is on that chip.
Or, alternatively, utilize a largely cyborg body with artificial neural tissues, which is well within the established capabilities of several groups in setting.
As a huge Half Life fan. I feel Cyberpunk 2077 was a very under rated game. Despite the bugs. But Damn I haven't enjoyed a game like that since half life 1. Only game I beat twice since half life 1 as well. Not usually of fan of beating games I already conquered. But the problem I still see with argument in the video is that Alt Cunningham the AI was able to successfully separate your characters construct from Johnny Silverhands. The problem was that it took so long for the player to reach Alt that by the time we seperated our cautiousness , the body already adapted to Johnny's. They already said in the game that if we got there sooner, we probably could of avoided death. So we had the choice to give the body to johnny or live out our days dying. The game never said it was impossible, they simply said the body had already adapted to Johnny's DNA and therefore rejecting our cautiousness or construct. So there's that.