Let me know all your thoughts down below chooms! Do you think its likely this Mikoshi merge has something to do with Project Oracle? I hope you enjoyed and have a great week!
@@LayedBackGamers like with the Alt AI. They don't care about honor, integrity or have humanity. Theres no favor with the AIs possible. Only being useful for their own objectives, until you aren't.
It’s mentioned as one of the big 5 corps but ingame you never do find them in anything it’s odd every other corp is caught by you in some scuzzy dealing or blantant evil acts but nightcorp is just hidden throughout
@@LayedBackGamersi played and beat the game about 5 times so apparently they’re so good at hiding themselves that if i’m not paying attention i’ll miss them even if i encounter them
I mean, the voodoo boys did kinda speculate on this topic, when they wanted to breach the black wall to ally themselves with the ai outside the the black wall.
An AI will always see humans as tools. Alt confirmed it to V in the Star Ending. Voodoo Boys are really stupid I mean REALLY STUPID. Thank God it backfired bc imagine them working for Rogue AIs ... Night City would be fcked...
I think 5th corporate war is inevitable, in any ending aside from the devil ending, you hear on the radio about increased tensions between a weakened Arasaka and Militech. The blue eyes being an indication of constant data stream isn't something I considered, but makes perfect sense, as you see it momentarily in data or money (which digitally would still just be data) transactions. I also wonder how much 'Project Oracle' has to do with the Oracle AI from 2020, or if it's possible that the AI we interface with that appears as Alt is actually that Oracle AI, or what it has become.
There's also the gig in Heywood involving (spoilers] Arasaka paying the Valentinos to attack an Arasaka transport with Militech equipment. Seems like Arasaka is trying to kickstart a war.
Phantom Liberty delves deep into the growing tensions of Arasaka and Militech. There's also a gig for Padre where you uncover plots by Arasaka hiring gangs to hit militech, trying to provoke a casus belli
with the ending paths of phantom liberty (cynosure lab and orbital air) both of them tie into this theory perfectly going forward. you can hear on the news with tensions rising between NUSA and Orbital Air after completing that ending, with some talking about a fifth corporate war. the cynosure path is pretty self explanatory with its implications for AI going forward too. would love to see a follow up video taking into account the new info from phantom liberty !!
I think the name Orion comes from the quote from Blade Runner. "I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. [laughs] Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like [coughs] tears in rain. Time to die." I also think that there are also alien AI from Alpha Centauri, thrown in there, simply because of the Neuromancer references along with Mr. blue eyes being a reference to Wintermute. I believe in the next cyberpunk game you will play as a hunter of the AI replicants.
this seems pretty possible as cyberpunk sequel has codename ORION and we know that ORION in cyberpunk 2020 was basically group of bad ass special operation soldiers. I imagine that the sequel will be about rescuing humanity and fighting against AI. also this is possible that V will come back as a merc fighting with AI if the temperance ending is canon (in temperance ending V joins alt but theoretically V became an engram so its still possible to separate him from alt and bring back to life as it is shown as possible in the devil ending when saburo arasaka comes back to light in the body of his son)
@@ennabermost of the endings can be canon and their saves imported with the help of clever adjustments/additions to the narrative. One example being no matter what V did the relic’s symptoms seem to be returning steadily. Mr. Blue Eyes offers V a sure fire cure in exchange for his services and boom theres your foray into dealing with rouge AI’s and corporate war on the horizon.
@@kadirr8974Agreed. Space, if included at all, would probably be a very small part of the game. Cyberpunk has to be grungy and you can make space grungy but not like Night City that promises so much and looks good in neon, until you walk down an alley way and see the distressed and disillusioned hulks. But I do hope we get rogue AI and at least more space than in Cyberpunk 2077.
On the topic of the blackwall and its overall effectiveness, the netwatch agent you meet in the voodoo boys quest pretty much describes the truth. He says netwatch is losing, and the breakthrough is inevitable, especially with people like the voodoo boys poking holes. He describes the current state of the blackwall as actually being more like a wet paper full of holes than a sturdy wall
Mr. Blue Eyes shows up again during the "Killing Moon" ending of Phantom Liberty, again lurking in the background. It's also implied that he was the one to buy Songbird's ticket to the moon
I'm keeping my eye on Brenden now. You didn't mention him, I mean maybe he just isn't important, but he directly says he's a "friendly A.I.". Hes next to Clouds club and you move a dumpster for him if you are feeling nice that day 😅
If you finish Brenden's questline you eventually find out he's not an AI, but basically just a chatbot. It's pretty sad, and there is another character involved but yea, he isn't actually all that advanced.
@@GrainOnTheGothat something an advanced AI would claim😂 but it is funny and interesting that both Brendan and Mr. Blue Eyes would say the exact same thing to V “I know what you are V”. They both know about V dying and resurrecting thanks to the chip. Something that only to people are supposed to know in NC.
I hate the fact that even if you play V as a “Netrunner”, V is completely ignorant to anything about the Net. Also I saw a comment about Brendan, and his situation is very interesting. During his missions, he claims that he’s not advanced or even an AI to begin with (something an advanced AI would say to stay alive). He also knows what V is, something that only two people in the story know, Viktor and Misty. Nobody else in the whole of NC know about V and the chip in their brain, well except one other very specific person… Mr. Blue Eyes, in fact the two of the say a very similar line to V “I know what you are V”. To me this implies that Brendan is indeed an AI and more importantly, he might be allied with the AI that is Mr. Blue Eyes. I know in the Brendan mission they “decommissioned” Brendan, but do we really know for sure? Or maybe they were running other experiments with AI in the physical world.
V never jacks in to the Net (except to see the black wall) in game, as he's just a user of the tech written and made by actual netrunners. Hes smart enough to use the tools, not make them, no matter how you play.
@@Ultravenom1 Which is bullshit. The game acts like you're a netrunner in certain dialogue options, and CDPR said you'd get to play a netrunner, but the reality is that you're just a solo with quickhacks. My first character back when the game launched was supposed to be a netrunner, and I was beyond disappointed that all that cool Net shit that I got all excited about before launch was completely inaccessible in the actual game, and the netrunning we saw in the demo was a total lie.
@@jaffarebellion292 I agree. The first ending I got was the one where I stormed Arasaka towers with Johnnys old crew. During the conversation with Alt that you will die anyways you have to decide wether to go beyond the blackwall or return to your body. The catch being that you speak from the perspective of silverhand. At that point I wanted Johnny to have my bod but when I selected it V would be sooo pissed about it. Dude. You are an ex corp netrunner. Isnt this the best thing to ever happen to you? You will die anyways and this this way you will become an immortal ai living in the net. That sounds awesome. What tf you are gonna do with those measly 6 monts anyway? Why not give your body to Silverhand, your best friend at this point? Really was a "the illusion of choice moment" for me...
there is such a rabbit hole of information related to Project Oracle, FF06B5, Rogue AIs, Mr Blue Eyes, Malestrom, and Arasaka. I wish there was more content around it but it's hard when more than half of the information is speculation based off of source books and what we know from 2077. regardless, great video! i definitely think phantom liberty is going to dive a little deeper into rogue AI at some point as a side plot to the corporate war, I just don't know how much they will go into the mysteries because they seem pretty adamant about keeping those as something that the lore side of the community needs to solve. i really like what you said about the blackwall tho, Brigitte's statements are definitely foreshadowing and i hope there is more exploring that in the expansion too
Cyberpunk, Phantom Liberty and Edgerunners all point towards going to outerspace in their endings + its where the people in power are. It also supports the idea that the best ending is not the one where you totally get saved....no .... cyberpunk's universe is about doing everything you can to find "phantom liberty" - an elusive freedom, freedom away from the control of others in the flashiest and wild way possible, even though termporary or fake, building your reputation and legend, living life the the fullest in a dangerous and deceptive dark world. You either get swallowed up in night city or you go out guns blazing, and the only direction is up. In the all two games and anime, you reached the top of society, next up...SPACE.
Sounds legit i wonder could some AI programs be active now that help humanity in some type of aspect. I think the Monk in game is a A I that functions to help humanity. Great video.
I dont think the monk had any cyberware. Unless it invades individuals and become kinda like what Johnny is to V. Only the individual sees the monk but rest dont, but that feels kinda off since he hands you a BD headset if i remember correctly.
@@marcusbergman6116 makes more sense he a guide to you and other around night city and the world and at the end Johnny points out how he didn’t see anything you did so the monk only spoke to you and only you saw his visions it’s odd considering Johnny is in everything else
I have been saying this since playing the game. Little hints are dropped throughout the game subtle and slap up side of the head. Peralez being primary, to the loading screen screen at you. Alt 's end goal in the game with personalities. Mr BlueEyes possibly being Morgan Blackhand being controlled by AI. Sandra Dorsett's discovery that almost got her killed and her paranoia after.
I really hope Mr Blue Eyes isn't actually Blackhand. It'd be pretty pathetic if he got gamed like that. I don't think he is since Pondsmith claimed that Blackhand in 2045 looks like George Clooney
MBE is not Morgan Blackhand. Morgan Blackhand was last seen fighting Adam Smasher atop Arasaka tower. (Johnny's relic chip is fragged and he does not remember history accurately.) Unlike Silverhand, Morgan was actually a Solo and was more than enough of a match for that earlier iteration of Smasher. I have been playing the tabletop since cyberpunk 2013 (1st Ed).
@@LordofSyn 1. Nah, even narcissism cannot just alter memories that drasticaly 2. Experiment to test engram stability, for example? Who is a better guinea pig for that than your former enemy? But that's not the only possible reason. 3. Yes, that's another possibility.
this is what i use youtube for, and what it should be. some dude who is just obsessed with some topic telling the rest of us about it. love your discussions on cyberpunk, excited to see what comes next
I wouldn't put much stock in the "orion" thing. CDProjectRed tends to use celestial bodies to name their projects. Witcher 4 is codename "Polaris" as an example.
Something that could unite all endings os the fact Alt was a rogue Ai and her getting everyone from Mikoshi might just be what the Ai need to push through. In all these endings Arasaka is weakened. And in what ending it isnt? In the Devil ending. So that could be a way to connect the games
You know, I actually really loved working with/for the Peralez. I tried to ring Jeff after the game ended, but he didn't pick up. Did anyone else do that? Call all the numbers after completing the game. Interestingly enough Peralez is featured in the end credits. I'm hoping to bump into them in Orion.
Choom...the theory's you string together so coherently is truly one of a kind on this platform. Enjoyed from beginning to end and definitely sounds like a concrete possibility! I also have a question. Wanting to delve knee deep in Cyberpunk lore. Obviously the wiki in certain aspects isn't gonna cut it. Do you recommend i grab the source books? Is it worth it? I'm all ears sensei 😂
I'm glad you've been enjoying the content choom! I appreciate your support and hope to continue improving. It's a matter of personal preference, there are pdfs online that you can find pretty easily if your only goal is to read through the sourcebooks. There's also wiki covering all the different sourcebooks in existence so they're easier to search the title of. Now if you're a collector or hands on reader like myself, I'd definitely recommend at least getting the core rulebook. Such as 2020 and red. I also have a video covering the essential sourcebooks so that might help also!
I have to admit, engaging in especulations like this is fun and addictive as we wait for a new release. But every time I’ve engaged in this type of especulations, it slowly starts becoming expectations without meaning to do it. And expecting someting in this manner hurts giving merit for the end result on its own terms and liking it for what it is. That’s just my 2 cents though, maybe many of you haven’t had the problems I’ve had in the past
I've had enough terrible things happen to me in life that no matter what I enjoy speculating, I never expect the best outcome, but the worst - I'm never disappointed lol
@@chloewebb5526 I've been there and personally had to stop. Constantly expecting the worst did affect some relationships and made me build some pretty extreme walls. I think that disappointment can be healthy, disappointment can be an excellent teacher. Just how surprise can be a delicious reward. I mean, expecting the worst and saying "I knew it" is kind of wild don't you think? But when I expect something, without it being wishful thinking but a reasonable assessment, it does leave room for "this is what went right, and this is what went wrong, next time adjust"
After playing Phantom Library and seeing Mr Blue Eyes special interest in Songbird ... I definitely I think that something about AI are coming in some serious manner in next game.
It seems like the canon ending of 2077 is that regardless of what V does, militech rises to surpass arasaka as head dog in night city. In general militech is poised to be the actual big player in 2077 thanks to all the phantom liberty reveals with militech's project cynosure and a seemingly hidden affiliation between midnight arms in the case of the erebus AI powered SMG
This would make The Tower ending much easier to swallow and would probably also mean the end of Smasher, borgs like him would never survive the Ai's beyond the blackwall, IMO.
Ok so in the Crystal palace ending u can read on the computer in the space shuttle about how even with V being the king/queen of the afterlife and night city and having all of his friends and connections he was unable to find out who the “client” is or any information on him which I assume is mr blue eyes and it also says that he either has friends wayyy above them and I forgot the other thing which is crazy because as we know rouge had contacts in space and V becomes a actual living legend and takes rouges place
Finally!! Someone made a Video about this!!! I thought me and my friend were the only people who believed an AI invasion will be a major plot point in the Sequel! Thank You!!!
When you head to get your first gun link and optical upgrade, if you head straight down instead of turning left to Misty's then you see the chap mentioned (as jumping out the window) plummet to their death in front of you...
From an RPG standpoint and storytelling standpoint in general I guess, this could actually make a very interesting successor to CP2077. My tinfoil hat theory is that our created protagonist could be a newer generation child soldier(kinda like lucy) that was apart of a group of kids being trained for the next corporate war but also secretly to combat the impending AI invasion. I feel like that kind of story is definitely a great canvas for what CDPR wanted to do with 2077 giving a greater variety for character builds and narrative decisions that you’ll want to seek out depending on your outlook on the situation.
I just wanted to say that you are doing great job sir. Love these videos and it's really impressive the lengths you go to acquire lore information and present it to us in cool cool videos! Thanks!
A thought. If the AI "consume" engrams to form their Hivemind, Doo they maintain Night City through Night Corp as a breeding farm of harvestible humans for future engrams? Maybe there won't need to be a AI war. Maybe they've already won.
I definitely think they won with the datakrash. The blackwall can't stop it, and humanity already ceded so much of the net, and if the blackwall is really the same AI we see a fragment of in phantom liberty, it's looking less like a wall to keep them out, and more like a wall to keep us contained.
If I had to guess that the official title will be Cyberpunk 2080. The plot: V went on a gig for mr blue eyes right to the crystal palace. But something went wrong and V (you) was killed and presumed dead. But Nightcorp managed to recover your body and got your neural engram and consciousness out of your old body. For 3 long years they managed to create you a new synthetic body while also placing your engram in a new experimental chip similar to the relic. Which gives you the ability to not only revive your self from the dead by sending your engram to a new body when you flatline. But also gives you the ability to enter cyberspace without a netrunner chair. But V is not the only one, some other mercs and legends also got brought back New faces and some familiar ones too. But there is a reason why blue eyes and nightcorp brought you back. A GOOD ONE. The 5th corporate war has broken out and to make matters worse, the blackwall has been breached and destroyed putting all of night city in danger. So it's up to V to not only bring an end to the war but to also stop the post-war AIs from wiping out humanity.
In PL, during the Heavy Hearts mission, you can find a random lady who also has glowing blue eyes. I dunno if that has anything to do with anything, but them blue eyes people might just be roaming around Dogtown as well. Edit: now that i think about it, it might be during the party up at the Black Saphhire... In any case, Dogtown got some real fuckery goin on.
What would be an interesting theory is what if a rogue AI is taking over people and sending them into "cyberpsychosis" and slowly ramping up to where it could take over multiple people at once
Doubtful, as cyberpychosis has been a thing since cyberpunk 2020. No AI is needed to drive people psycho, just too many human-deviated implants. The more software you need to get an implant to work with human biology, and the more chunks of the brain you replace/supplement with tech, the more psychologically you deviate from being a normal human and the more your ability to empathize with others is impacted and reduced. Add in pre existing mental instability and the people living in the shitty conditions of 2077 have on average a very low capacity for the more advanced and non-human-biology conforming cyberware.
No that would just be stupid and take away everything of what cyber psychosis is meant to be which is a mental illness brought about and made worse by other factors
@natebeare9978 we have a cyberpsychosis quickhack, so I'd be unsurprised if there was some influence, but it seems to be a combination of an event that sends them into a high stress environment, loading up on cybernetics, and something that sends them over the edge fully
Fantastic video Choom! One of your best yet. You really read my mind with this topic, it's something ive thought about ever since I finished the game. Not only do i believe a 5th Corperate War and AI Invasion are where the story is going, but i think one will lead to the other. What if fighting in the Net during the 5th CW results in the Blackwall unintentionally being destroyed. Or, an even mire interesting possibility, one side destroys it on purpose hoping to use the Rogue AI to their advantage. I definitely feel like this is a real possibility. I'd also like to point out two things: 1: IIRC theres a shard that can be found throughout the game where geopolitical analysts claim a 5th CW will start by 2080 2: The Cyberpsycho encounter where we see Mealstrum worshipping an AI. Between the second point and all the other quest that talk about Rogue AI, no doubt theyll play a HUGE role in the story later down the line. I cant wait to see if the events of PL play any sort of role in this!
Thanks a lot for the kindness and support choom! Especially for the additional information. I'm hoping we see some more progress in this plot during PL. I originally believed the DLC would be almost entirely about Paralez but not entirely sure anymore on that. Though I can see more being added in relation
My theory? In Orion, our character will stumble across and make contact with an AI from beyond the Blackwall. A benevolent one though; who says they've come to warn humanity with their siblings that a war is coming due to the hostile AIs. The game proceeds as we watch the corps try to fight the AIs and people become corrupted by them. Our character will be able to channel blackwall abilities through their skill trees and will be vital to a corp/the corps in fighting the AIs. Either join the corp (could be like The Devil ending) and help them fight them, or work solo or with friends. ... Waitwaitwait.. what if.. no.. What if you play AS a Blackwall AI? Begin the game, character investigates the Blackwall on a risky job and an AI gets through and joyrides them, taking over their body. Either through their death or an alliance the AI is now at least partially in control of the body and the plot continues from there. Oh my god. That would be really good, I'm not going to lie. Obviously it would be more ironed out than these scribbles but yeah, plot, boom, right there. I guess we'll see when it's out.
the choice of the Orion constellation may be of importance, but it must be noted that most other CDPR projects' working titles refer to either famous stars or contellations. The two upcoming Witcher games are called Polaris (referring to the North Star, Alpha Ursae Minoris) and Sirius (Alpha Canis Majoris). Then there is the Cyberpunk sequel (the Orion constellation) and an unnamed unrelated project called Hadar (Beta Centauri).
The fact that in phantom liberty (songbird aside) Erebus and the militech canto MK6 both imply that they can also use humans as flesh puppets to act out their own will, E.g calling people waste of resources when you kill them not cause the AI’s care about people but because you’re damaging both what could be a future puppet and their cyberware, only further cements the theory that Mr Blue eyes is actually being controlled by a force beyond the Blackwall similar to how songbird might have ended up
Fantastic video man. Good to know I am not the only one that has seen this coming. Couple of things on this to support it: 1. There is a mission you do for Padre, that at the end of it he tells you that everything he has seen points to Arasaka trying to start a new war with Militech. SO even in the base game, things are being put in place for another corpo war. 2. I will not give any spoilers, but after the events of Phantom Liberty, it is even clearer that the AI's on the other side of the Black Wall are planning something big. 3. As someone else has already pointed out, Brigette mentions a digital war is coming. So yeah, it is obvious that CDPR has had this whole thing planned out for some time now. The signs and clues are there. Now we just have to wait a few years to find out what exactly it is they have planned for all of us...
Honestly if they add depth to the 2.x version of the game id be happy a 5th corporate war as well as the ai invasion is a strong base for the base game and an opportunity to have a new protagonist as well as more backrounds for the protagonist and if were going deep into the ai uprising id love to see levels similar in asthetic to tron maby they can be like the bds interactible with a avatar or even bigger a net version of night city that you have to be jacked in to see
Lucy is gonna be involved. A born and bred netrunner with tons of experience with rogue ai and old gen cyberspace who literally lives on the moon. All but guaranteed to have something to do with all this.
'I've stood on the back deck of a blinker bound for the Plutition Camps with sweat in my eyes watching stars fight on the shoulder of Orion...' - Roy Batty, Bladerunner
I have a theory that Delamain is not itself from beyond the Blackwall, but it was infected by one (or more) AIs from beyond that then fractured off from it and tried to go their own way in the real world. The part of Del that says it is from beyond the Blackwall is one of those splintered off "children" parts of Del, not Del itself, and if you choose to merge Del with his "children" or let them go free by destroying Del, you are in fact unleashing the rogue AIs into the real world. Essentially, I believe the rogue AIs are all constantly trying to break out, and the Delamain situation is them actually succeeding at it through the backdoor of binding themselves to something on the real world side of the wall, much like Mr. Blue Eyes.
Delamain is a tamed rogue ai that the taxi company paid for. when V got shot by Dex and was being transported to Viks Delamain requested Takemura connect V to the cars system directly, shortly after that mission Delamain experienced the virus for the first time implying the relic caused it. When you take the cyberware or gun you get from siding with Reed to the final Delamain quest they diagnose the problem almost instantly. The diagnosis sounds identical to what is happening to V but with multiple personalities instead of 1. When you merge all the delamains together the cyberware/gun will say something along the lines of "You expect this to help you, how foolish"
Now that Phantom Liberty has come out… I’m convinced there is a 5th Corporate War in the future of this game. But the players aren’t JUST corporations… and you mentioned one major player here already: AI’s. The NUSA is likely to be involved as well, not just Militech. And in the expansion we have V doing work with the NUSA as a newly minted FIA Agent… a spy. I think this coming war is going to drag V back in. I’ll not be specific here in case anyone watching this hasn’t played the expansion yet, but I’ll say that even in fiction, you’re never really out of the game. Once government has its hooks in you, you’re stuck and I think that goes double for the NUSA. I’ll bet Arasaka has renewed interest in V also. Maybe the NUSA will make another play to Unify? Corporate War would lend plenty of chaos for the NUSA to make such an attempt. Could even give them the “Moral High Ground” for it, even though the only thing Myers wants is more power. And of course, within this mess are the AI’s from beyond the Blackwall. Maybe with “Alt” leading the charge there? I also think it’s AI’s running Night Corp; if not directly, then for sure through proxy.
What i enjoy so much about Cyberpunk in general is that we as a player in 2077 do not really change anything really. After V is gone the city does what it always does, and we have changed nothing. I enjoyed your theory and honestly i hope that we will get to play during that time of upheaval, my hope is once again that the player is basically powerless and does not overthrow anything to create world peace all of a sudden.
True that Night City will survive and no real major improvements to the system are made regardless of V's actions, but on the other hand Vs actions (intentional or not) led to the destruction of Arasaka in most endings which is a huge change in how the world works since Arasaka was already the world superpower and if it survived the games' events it would have used the Relic program to secure immortality for its leadership.
personally I think you have a massive impact. Yorinobu is starting a 5th corporate war to destroy Arasaka. Depending on your choices you can leave him in power to start the 5th corporate war. Or you can defeat him and get him replaced by his father who will steer Arasaka away from another war. So your choices could not have a bigger impact on future lore
5:25 the word your looking for here is proxy war, a war between two Partys who never officially declare war on each other, but engage each other throughout various conflicts and wars in which each side has an interest in not losing, this happened IRL during the Vietnam War where the Soviet union often provided weapons and unofficial air support for the vietcong under the table even though they were never officially at war with the USA, this is also what is happening right now in Ukraine although it's not popular to call it what it actually is.
The Star is the Canon ending and I'll explain why, shortly, because I know the overall sottry of Cyberpunk Orion, you only need to know the mythology behind Orion... this is the legend: "Orion was a huntsman for a time, but was blinded after raping the king's daughter. Orion then travelled across the sea to lemnos to petition for help in recovering his sight. He then was directed to the rising place of the sun where Helios restored his vision, he then returned to Greece to take revenge on the king, whom fled and hid himself in a bronze underground chamber..." Now, what i think it will be the main, overall story of Cyberpunk Orion: "V was a Solo for a time, but he was condemned to a slow death after stealing the "Relic". V, then travelled across the sand sea to petition someone for help saving him/her life. He//She was then directed to the rising place of the sun (Land of the Rising Sun, Maybe Japan????) where Helios (Maybe the president of some Corporation, perhaps the new president of Arasaka????) restored his/her life... I don't know if they will make "V" return after that....
And the information that Orion is not leaving the USA does not counter this theory because there is a State known as the "Sun State"... Florida, that if you are pointing North, is East, the same as the Land of the Rising Sun...
I really hope they make cyberpunk 2077 decisions impact Orion's, like the Mass Effect series. I bet it won't happen but it would be freaking awesome, if it did
All I gotta say is, the storytelling potential on this franchise is fucking incredible and I'm so hyped to see what they do with it now that it is both successful and has multi-media staying power. It's clear they have a winner they just need to keep up the quality and dive deeper. They also need to keep implanting history and depth into the context of the game's because they run the issue of being too far from the source for there to be "valueable" lore in the way of depth for the player. I just hope they keep it grounded, the worst thing you can do in Cyberpunk is go full sci-fantasy. I hope the DLC has a new ending where V accepts Hanako's offer and then infiltrates the HQ to implant something for Militech/NUSA that will start the war. I think the second game should be a Corpo war that starts some type of AI incursion as each major company is weak fighting each other and then the AI start to bleed in. I also hope AS STORYTELLERS they make good use of the symbolism the AI can represent in the plot to apply to our world now...not as just "AI" but as any kind of opressed latent force from the past. I think AI are the perfect force to EMBODY a kind of ideology or decision making humans make today: surveillance, control, belief in humanity and our nature, etc. I hope they exist as "gods" that embody our modern culture in a way they did in previous Cyberpunk works.
Ima make a prediction real quick, if this is true, the next game will probably based during the corporate war just before the AI invade (or atleast before the AI invasion gets into full swing), with the full on invasion either being in a DLC (probably too big for that though tbh), or the next game
If the next game is a sequel I wonder which v ending will be cannon or if you continue as v or someone who knew them and where it’ll take place nightcity again would be boring if nothing changed
1 Thank you for mentioning the ttrpg versions. 2 The feared AI uprising has been a thing to worry about since 2nd Edition (cp2020) 3 *This is super important* : Wherever CDPR goes with Phantom Liberty it *IS NOT* canon to the franchise and IP. Unless R. Talsorian Games have given it their seal of approval, it will then become yet another alternate history of Night City. (Yeah, this is not the first time that this has happened). I have been playing the ttrpg since launch in the 80s. There will be a source book for Cyberpunk Red (the newest edition of the game which takes place in 2045) that will allow you to play in 2077 on the tabletop. Originally, 2077 was planned to allow you to bring your V to the table or one of your table characters into 2077 but that was never completed. Again, wherever CDPR is taking this, it is not canon. That is not me hating, if anything; I hope that it makes people want to play the ttrpg versions because they are way more violent and better than 2077 is.
I mean from what I've seen Pondsmith fully endorses 2077 and Phantom Liberty as Canon material to Cyberpunk red. Though I am extremely excited for the edgerunner mission kit. Its going to have a lot of information to reveal, and I'm sure we will get a new story to fill in the gaps of Black Dog - 2077. Glad to have your support on my Content choom and am always looking for feedback. Been trying to gather some new information on Smasher, do you know if during the 2023 raid its ever stated what borg body he is in during the silverhand attack compared to his Dai oni armor in the blackhand duel? I can't figure out if he had Dai oni during the lab attack or switched between battles...
@@LayedBackGamers Great question regarding Smasher. Even that is not certain as Pondsmith (who wrote that history) has wavered a few times and may not even remember the certainty of details now. Wish I could give you more but with any creative work this old, there are always retconns and inconsistencies that pop up. I can look back through all of my collection of books but I doubt I'll find it.
I was playing yesterday and I entered the Net part of a computer and entered Arasaka I don't remember the exact name of the tab in the webpage but there was an article about something to do with a partnership with a company called ORION I don't remember the exact content but it was something about a patent if I'm not mistaken It could be a code or a teaser of some sort but I suck at deciphering those 😂
I'm not the best at ciphers but that sounds like interesting information. I'll have to look into it if I can find it choom! Thanks for watching and for the info!
The news segment on Orbital Air suddenly surging up in stock price because AI trading bots suspect people with money will want off Earth quickly makes a lot more sense now lmao
Yep. I see a lot of tragedy on its way in the world. Bound to eventually end up in a blade runnet esque situation. Especially since biotechnica is seeming to approach a tyrel status
Outstanding video. With cybernetics implanted I don't see why not future AGI will not influence decision making of important people or the one's close to them.
Tbh I think Johnny was wrong, I don't think this is at all rogue AI, I genuinely think this is just night corp trying out new methods to control the politics of the city Edit: however I would be very interested to see how this would go if it does happen
Great video highlighting the stories about the corps and AI in 2077. Nothing you said is untrue of course, I just don't think any of this is proof the next game will be about an AI invasion. If anything, the main story focused so much on AI this time, I hope they move onto something different in the future. A full scale invasion would take us out of the cyberpunk genre and into post apocalyptic terminator type genre, thats not what cyberpunk is about.
I definitely hope they manage to pull it off. I think Orion will be an amazing follow up to 2077. There's a lot they can do now since they have the frame work for Cyberpunk. All they have to do is expand on it now.
What I was surprised about in the first game was the lack of robots and AI counter parts to help you in missions. You had one AI gun and you don't get to keep it. You get one robot crawler and don't get to keep it. You had Johnny Silver hand in your head but he could do nothing to help you fight, and he was an Ghost in a shell. Just a big wasted opportunity.
Actually you were right on track! In the new ending of the game after Phantom Liberty, 2 years after 2077 , so in 2079 Arasaka pulled out of Night City and instead Militech fully moved in ;) Speaking about the Blackwall, I find it hilarious how the Blackwall is actually an AI itself. To start the AI invasion all you would have to do is to teach this AI to stand with the other AIs.... ^_^
Thought provoking as ever. The ending of 2077 has a massive impact on future lore and the sequel of the game. After Yorinobu kills Saburo and takes control of the company he starts pushing Arasaka and Militech to a 5th corporate war as the only way of totally destroying Arasaka. if Saburo comes back by taking over Yorinobu's body then he will steer the company back to normal and away from any chance of a corporate war. Militech had no interest in a war... it was just Yorinobu trying to start trouble. So yes a 5th corporate war is innevitable but only if Yorinobu remains in control of Arasaka. Personally I think the canon ending will see V beyond the black wall and he will give his body to Johnny Silverhand. Although I see that the net and AIs will be very important in the next game. I have no clue what the story will be. But I think V being behind the black wall gives us a whole new world to explore. We may even be able to switch between characters in the game as we switch between the net and the real world. Maybe V takes over human victims to allow the gamer to switch between net & real world. Maybe V and the AIs try to stop Yorinobu & the 5th corporate war. If you are right the AIs are going to start a maliciois invasion of the real world. in the next game.. why? what do they want ? Do they care about flesh & the real world? Or do you think Rache is somehow able to control every AI to start an invasion? Definitely a lot to think about on this topic. Mike P has done a great job of leaving lots of clues & red herrings to keep everyone guessing. So I don't think we can guess the next story
Don't you think it's odd that, in Cyberpunk, we all replace our eyes with optics, made by Kiroshi, whose logo is magenta, and not just any magenta, but a very specific magenta that has a very specific hex code?
Yeah I've started thinking recently after seeing some talk about Kiroshi in relation to ff, that perhaps if you can find something in game before the kiroshi optics are installed
Read NEUROMANCER by William Gibson. As I was reading it made me think of Alt Cunningham and the ending of CP2077. All about A.I and this was written in the 60s.
Who are the 2 main conglomerates CINTO & OTEC that are really behind the fourth corporate war. And do they start up the 5th corporate war by introducing the rouge ai through night corp
I always thought it was funny that NightCorp tells you not to do anything but then immediately follows up by saying that you won't change anything. Comes off as silly, not intimidating.
Tbf in witcher 3 it became a war game maybe, cyberpunk 2 basically leds to the start of war then you could import cyberpunk 2 character into the war itself. We can only imagin how gigantic cyberpunk 2 since witcher 3 and cyberpunk 77 used last gen tech and the second cyberpunk will likely be next gen
*SPOILERS FOR PHANTOM LIBERTY* One other thing - After PL i started to think that Mr Blue Eyes will help only IAs, Songbird is starting to merge with IA and dying and he offers her help but in King of wands she doesn't contact us directly - what if he wants her to become IA? same with V - In Sun ending we are basicly relic in V body so he offers help then. (sorry if my gramar is bad :/)
Let me know all your thoughts down below chooms! Do you think its likely this Mikoshi merge has something to do with Project Oracle? I hope you enjoyed and have a great week!
I remember Brigette saying there will be a digital war. So she wanted to prepare to survive it for herself and her crew.
Yeah she just got way too naive. It's somewhat silly that maelstrom and vdb think it's that easy to curry favor with the AI
Too bad I killed her
@@LayedBackGamers like with the Alt AI. They don't care about honor, integrity or have humanity.
Theres no favor with the AIs possible. Only being useful for their own objectives, until you aren't.
Yeah when she double crossed my V, it was a choice she didn't get a chance to regret.
@@kbo8029 just like the vdb honestly
I always viewed Night Corp as the real sleeping giant in Night City.
Their hidden involvement in so many events is chilling.
It's weird how you can even play the game without ever hearing about them pretty much. Really goes to show how well they hide themselves.
It’s mentioned as one of the big 5 corps but ingame you never do find them in anything it’s odd every other corp is caught by you in some scuzzy dealing or blantant evil acts but nightcorp is just hidden throughout
@LayedBackGamers my first playthrough I had literally no idea that they existed
@@LayedBackGamersi played and beat the game about 5 times so apparently they’re so good at hiding themselves that if i’m not paying attention i’ll miss them even if i encounter them
@@LayedBackGamers i surmize the AI's have already taken control of their first big mega corp hands presence in NC is chilling don't u think?
I mean, the voodoo boys did kinda speculate on this topic, when they wanted to breach the black wall to ally themselves with the ai outside the the black wall.
Too bad that Backfired. Low key deserved it
An AI will always see humans as tools. Alt confirmed it to V in the Star Ending.
Voodoo Boys are really stupid I mean REALLY STUPID. Thank God it backfired bc imagine them working for Rogue AIs ... Night City would be fcked...
I think 5th corporate war is inevitable, in any ending aside from the devil ending, you hear on the radio about increased tensions between a weakened Arasaka and Militech. The blue eyes being an indication of constant data stream isn't something I considered, but makes perfect sense, as you see it momentarily in data or money (which digitally would still just be data) transactions. I also wonder how much 'Project Oracle' has to do with the Oracle AI from 2020, or if it's possible that the AI we interface with that appears as Alt is actually that Oracle AI, or what it has become.
There's also the gig in Heywood involving (spoilers] Arasaka paying the Valentinos to attack an Arasaka transport with Militech equipment. Seems like Arasaka is trying to kickstart a war.
Phantom Liberty delves deep into the growing tensions of Arasaka and Militech. There's also a gig for Padre where you uncover plots by Arasaka hiring gangs to hit militech, trying to provoke a casus belli
with the ending paths of phantom liberty (cynosure lab and orbital air) both of them tie into this theory perfectly going forward. you can hear on the news with tensions rising between NUSA and Orbital Air after completing that ending, with some talking about a fifth corporate war. the cynosure path is pretty self explanatory with its implications for AI going forward too. would love to see a follow up video taking into account the new info from phantom liberty !!
I think the name Orion comes from the quote from Blade Runner.
"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. [laughs] Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like [coughs] tears in rain. Time to die."
I also think that there are also alien AI from Alpha Centauri, thrown in there, simply because of the Neuromancer references along with Mr. blue eyes being a reference to Wintermute.
I believe in the next cyberpunk game you will play as a hunter of the AI replicants.
That it's in 2095 checked the timeline
this seems pretty possible as cyberpunk sequel has codename ORION and we know that ORION in cyberpunk 2020 was basically group of bad ass special operation soldiers.
I imagine that the sequel will be about rescuing humanity and fighting against AI. also this is possible that V will come back as a merc fighting with AI if the temperance ending is canon
(in temperance ending V joins alt but theoretically V became an engram so its still possible to separate him from alt and bring back to life as it is shown as possible in the devil ending when saburo arasaka comes back to light in the body of his son)
@@ennabermost of the endings can be canon and their saves imported with the help of clever adjustments/additions to the narrative. One example being no matter what V did the relic’s symptoms seem to be returning steadily. Mr. Blue Eyes offers V a sure fire cure in exchange for his services and boom theres your foray into dealing with rouge AI’s and corporate war on the horizon.
Loved it. I hope we see rogue AI and space action. It would connect nicely to V’s trip to the Crystal Palace
They gotta balance that though. I think Cyberpunk JUST in space wouldnt work that well.
@@kadirr8974Agreed. Space, if included at all, would probably be a very small part of the game. Cyberpunk has to be grungy and you can make space grungy but not like Night City that promises so much and looks good in neon, until you walk down an alley way and see the distressed and disillusioned hulks. But I do hope we get rogue AI and at least more space than in Cyberpunk 2077.
On the topic of the blackwall and its overall effectiveness, the netwatch agent you meet in the voodoo boys quest pretty much describes the truth. He says netwatch is losing, and the breakthrough is inevitable, especially with people like the voodoo boys poking holes. He describes the current state of the blackwall as actually being more like a wet paper full of holes than a sturdy wall
Mr. Blue Eyes shows up again during the "Killing Moon" ending of Phantom Liberty, again lurking in the background. It's also implied that he was the one to buy Songbird's ticket to the moon
I'm keeping my eye on Brenden now. You didn't mention him, I mean maybe he just isn't important, but he directly says he's a "friendly A.I.". Hes next to Clouds club and you move a dumpster for him if you are feeling nice that day 😅
Lmao isn't that the vending machine. Watch out choom...he's gonna start vending humans
Keep returning to Brenden and he'll eventually give you a quest where you'll learn a lot more about him.
If you finish Brenden's questline you eventually find out he's not an AI, but basically just a chatbot. It's pretty sad, and there is another character involved but yea, he isn't actually all that advanced.
its more ambiguous than that. all he's SUPPOSED to be is a chatbot.@@GrainOnTheGo
@@GrainOnTheGothat something an advanced AI would claim😂 but it is funny and interesting that both Brendan and Mr. Blue Eyes would say the exact same thing to V “I know what you are V”. They both know about V dying and resurrecting thanks to the chip. Something that only to people are supposed to know in NC.
I hate the fact that even if you play V as a “Netrunner”, V is completely ignorant to anything about the Net.
Also I saw a comment about Brendan, and his situation is very interesting. During his missions, he claims that he’s not advanced or even an AI to begin with (something an advanced AI would say to stay alive). He also knows what V is, something that only two people in the story know, Viktor and Misty. Nobody else in the whole of NC know about V and the chip in their brain, well except one other very specific person… Mr. Blue Eyes, in fact the two of the say a very similar line to V “I know what you are V”. To me this implies that Brendan is indeed an AI and more importantly, he might be allied with the AI that is Mr. Blue Eyes. I know in the Brendan mission they “decommissioned” Brendan, but do we really know for sure? Or maybe they were running other experiments with AI in the physical world.
V never jacks in to the Net (except to see the black wall) in game, as he's just a user of the tech written and made by actual netrunners. Hes smart enough to use the tools, not make them, no matter how you play.
@@Ultravenom1 Which is bullshit. The game acts like you're a netrunner in certain dialogue options, and CDPR said you'd get to play a netrunner, but the reality is that you're just a solo with quickhacks. My first character back when the game launched was supposed to be a netrunner, and I was beyond disappointed that all that cool Net shit that I got all excited about before launch was completely inaccessible in the actual game, and the netrunning we saw in the demo was a total lie.
@@jaffarebellion292
I agree. The first ending I got was the one where I stormed Arasaka towers with Johnnys old crew. During the conversation with Alt that you will die anyways you have to decide wether to go beyond the blackwall or return to your body. The catch being that you speak from the perspective of silverhand.
At that point I wanted Johnny to have my bod but when I selected it V would be sooo pissed about it.
Dude. You are an ex corp netrunner. Isnt this the best thing to ever happen to you? You will die anyways and this this way you will become an immortal ai living in the net. That sounds awesome. What tf you are gonna do with those measly 6 monts anyway? Why not give your body to Silverhand, your best friend at this point?
Really was a "the illusion of choice moment" for me...
there is such a rabbit hole of information related to Project Oracle, FF06B5, Rogue AIs, Mr Blue Eyes, Malestrom, and Arasaka. I wish there was more content around it but it's hard when more than half of the information is speculation based off of source books and what we know from 2077. regardless, great video! i definitely think phantom liberty is going to dive a little deeper into rogue AI at some point as a side plot to the corporate war, I just don't know how much they will go into the mysteries because they seem pretty adamant about keeping those as something that the lore side of the community needs to solve. i really like what you said about the blackwall tho, Brigitte's statements are definitely foreshadowing and i hope there is more exploring that in the expansion too
Cyberpunk, Phantom Liberty and Edgerunners all point towards going to outerspace in their endings + its where the people in power are. It also supports the idea that the best ending is not the one where you totally get saved....no .... cyberpunk's universe is about doing everything you can to find "phantom liberty" - an elusive freedom, freedom away from the control of others in the flashiest and wild way possible, even though termporary or fake, building your reputation and legend, living life the the fullest in a dangerous and deceptive dark world. You either get swallowed up in night city or you go out guns blazing, and the only direction is up. In the all two games and anime, you reached the top of society, next up...SPACE.
Sounds legit i wonder could some AI programs be active now that help humanity in some type of aspect. I think the Monk in game is a A I that functions to help humanity. Great video.
I'd agree! I believe the monk is another example of a rogue AI with its own purpose like delamain. To help humans and interact with them
I dont think the monk had any cyberware. Unless it invades individuals and become kinda like what Johnny is to V. Only the individual sees the monk but rest dont, but that feels kinda off since he hands you a BD headset if i remember correctly.
@@LayedBackGamerspersonally I think he, like the tarot cards, may indicate something more spiritual than an AI.
@@marcusbergman6116 makes more sense he a guide to you and other around night city and the world and at the end Johnny points out how he didn’t see anything you did so the monk only spoke to you and only you saw his visions it’s odd considering Johnny is in everything else
I have been saying this since playing the game. Little hints are dropped throughout the game subtle and slap up side of the head. Peralez being primary, to the loading screen screen at you. Alt 's end goal in the game with personalities. Mr BlueEyes possibly being Morgan Blackhand being controlled by AI. Sandra Dorsett's discovery that almost got her killed and her paranoia after.
I really hope Mr Blue Eyes isn't actually Blackhand. It'd be pretty pathetic if he got gamed like that. I don't think he is since Pondsmith claimed that Blackhand in 2045 looks like George Clooney
MBE is not Morgan Blackhand.
Morgan Blackhand was last seen fighting Adam Smasher atop Arasaka tower. (Johnny's relic chip is fragged and he does not remember history accurately.)
Unlike Silverhand, Morgan was actually a Solo and was more than enough of a match for that earlier iteration of Smasher.
I have been playing the tabletop since cyberpunk 2013 (1st Ed).
@@LordofSyn I actualy believe that JS memories are not accurate because Arasaka mendle with it.
@@secondaryfront
1 Johnny was not a nice guy.
2 Why would they?
3 The technology itself could have corrupted the memories
@@LordofSyn 1. Nah, even narcissism cannot just alter memories that drasticaly 2. Experiment to test engram stability, for example? Who is a better guinea pig for that than your former enemy? But that's not the only possible reason. 3. Yes, that's another possibility.
this is what i use youtube for, and what it should be. some dude who is just obsessed with some topic telling the rest of us about it. love your discussions on cyberpunk, excited to see what comes next
I wouldn't put much stock in the "orion" thing. CDProjectRed tends to use celestial bodies to name their projects. Witcher 4 is codename "Polaris" as an example.
Something that could unite all endings os the fact Alt was a rogue Ai and her getting everyone from Mikoshi might just be what the Ai need to push through. In all these endings Arasaka is weakened. And in what ending it isnt? In the Devil ending. So that could be a way to connect the games
You know, I actually really loved working with/for the Peralez. I tried to ring Jeff after the game ended, but he didn't pick up. Did anyone else do that? Call all the numbers after completing the game. Interestingly enough Peralez is featured in the end credits. I'm hoping to bump into them in Orion.
Choom...the theory's you string together so coherently is truly one of a kind on this platform. Enjoyed from beginning to end and definitely sounds like a concrete possibility! I also have a question. Wanting to delve knee deep in Cyberpunk lore. Obviously the wiki in certain aspects isn't gonna cut it. Do you recommend i grab the source books? Is it worth it? I'm all ears sensei 😂
I'm glad you've been enjoying the content choom! I appreciate your support and hope to continue improving. It's a matter of personal preference, there are pdfs online that you can find pretty easily if your only goal is to read through the sourcebooks. There's also wiki covering all the different sourcebooks in existence so they're easier to search the title of. Now if you're a collector or hands on reader like myself, I'd definitely recommend at least getting the core rulebook. Such as 2020 and red. I also have a video covering the essential sourcebooks so that might help also!
I've got the vast majority on PDF. Shout me if you want them. 👍
Agree with choom above and as well do i have a majority on pdf as well most definitely tho waiting for the edgerunners ttrpg!!
@@paulleach3612 Can I have those PDFs? 🙏 I'd love to read them while sitting at work waiting for something interesting to happen 😂😂
@@J4RDAAN I'm watching this video at work waiting for something to happen. Lol
Seeing new players getting giddy about a game that I've adored for thirty years gives me warm fuzzy feelings.
I agree with this idea. I’m hoping the DLC will cover more of the corpo politics and will explain why a 5th war will come
Definitely believe it will. The teasers barely scrapped the surface on what's going to happen
Phantom Liberty is going to be the last DLC released for Cyberpunk 2077, officially announced 5 days ago.
I have to admit, engaging in especulations like this is fun and addictive as we wait for a new release. But every time I’ve engaged in this type of especulations, it slowly starts becoming expectations without meaning to do it. And expecting someting in this manner hurts giving merit for the end result on its own terms and liking it for what it is. That’s just my 2 cents though, maybe many of you haven’t had the problems I’ve had in the past
I've had enough terrible things happen to me in life that no matter what I enjoy speculating, I never expect the best outcome, but the worst - I'm never disappointed lol
@@chloewebb5526 I've been there and personally had to stop. Constantly expecting the worst did affect some relationships and made me build some pretty extreme walls. I think that disappointment can be healthy, disappointment can be an excellent teacher. Just how surprise can be a delicious reward.
I mean, expecting the worst and saying "I knew it" is kind of wild don't you think? But when I expect something, without it being wishful thinking but a reasonable assessment, it does leave room for "this is what went right, and this is what went wrong, next time adjust"
After playing Phantom Library and seeing Mr Blue Eyes special interest in Songbird ... I definitely I think that something about AI are coming in some serious manner in next game.
“For everyone interested in Orion and the whole perception of AI, I can’t recommend enough that you read the manga EDEN: It’s an Endless World!”
It seems like the canon ending of 2077 is that regardless of what V does, militech rises to surpass arasaka as head dog in night city. In general militech is poised to be the actual big player in 2077 thanks to all the phantom liberty reveals with militech's project cynosure and a seemingly hidden affiliation between midnight arms in the case of the erebus AI powered SMG
This would make The Tower ending much easier to swallow and would probably also mean the end of Smasher, borgs like him would never survive the Ai's beyond the blackwall, IMO.
Ok so in the Crystal palace ending u can read on the computer in the space shuttle about how even with V being the king/queen of the afterlife and night city and having all of his friends and connections he was unable to find out who the “client” is or any information on him which I assume is mr blue eyes and it also says that he either has friends wayyy above them and I forgot the other thing which is crazy because as we know rouge had contacts in space and V becomes a actual living legend and takes rouges place
Finally!! Someone made a Video about this!!! I thought me and my friend were the only people who believed an AI invasion will be a major plot point in the Sequel! Thank You!!!
Glad you watched and agree choom! Orion is going to have a lot of hype
When you head to get your first gun link and optical upgrade, if you head straight down instead of turning left to Misty's then you see the chap mentioned (as jumping out the window) plummet to their death in front of you...
Yup. Was wondering if anyone else would mention that.
From an RPG standpoint and storytelling standpoint in general I guess, this could actually make a very interesting successor to CP2077. My tinfoil hat theory is that our created protagonist could be a newer generation child soldier(kinda like lucy) that was apart of a group of kids being trained for the next corporate war but also secretly to combat the impending AI invasion. I feel like that kind of story is definitely a great canvas for what CDPR wanted to do with 2077 giving a greater variety for character builds and narrative decisions that you’ll want to seek out depending on your outlook on the situation.
I just wanted to say that you are doing great job sir. Love these videos and it's really impressive the lengths you go to acquire lore information and present it to us in cool cool videos! Thanks!
Thanks a lot choom! I love creating this content for the community and the support helps a lot. I hope you continue to enjoy! Yet again, thank you.
A thought. If the AI "consume" engrams to form their Hivemind, Doo they maintain Night City through Night Corp as a breeding farm of harvestible humans for future engrams? Maybe there won't need to be a AI war. Maybe they've already won.
I definitely think they won with the datakrash. The blackwall can't stop it, and humanity already ceded so much of the net, and if the blackwall is really the same AI we see a fragment of in phantom liberty, it's looking less like a wall to keep them out, and more like a wall to keep us contained.
Damn bro, Gary was actually cooking with his theories. Rest in peace king. 😤🙏
Fascinating topic, core Delemain seems quite friendly while some of the divergents are quite hostile so they aren't all Alt vs VDB
If I had to guess that the official title will be Cyberpunk 2080. The plot: V went on a gig for mr blue eyes right to the crystal palace. But something went wrong and V (you) was killed and presumed dead. But Nightcorp managed to recover your body and got your neural engram and consciousness out of your old body. For 3 long years they managed to create you a new synthetic body while also placing your engram in a new experimental chip similar to the relic. Which gives you the ability to not only revive your self from the dead by sending your engram to a new body when you flatline. But also gives you the ability to enter cyberspace without a netrunner chair. But V is not the only one, some other mercs and legends also got brought back New faces and some familiar ones too. But there is a reason why blue eyes and nightcorp brought you back. A GOOD ONE. The 5th corporate war has broken out and to make matters worse, the blackwall has been breached and destroyed putting all of night city in danger. So it's up to V to not only bring an end to the war but to also stop the post-war AIs from wiping out humanity.
In PL, during the Heavy Hearts mission, you can find a random lady who also has glowing blue eyes. I dunno if that has anything to do with anything, but them blue eyes people might just be roaming around Dogtown as well.
Edit: now that i think about it, it might be during the party up at the Black Saphhire... In any case, Dogtown got some real fuckery goin on.
What would be an interesting theory is what if a rogue AI is taking over people and sending them into "cyberpsychosis" and slowly ramping up to where it could take over multiple people at once
Doubtful, as cyberpychosis has been a thing since cyberpunk 2020. No AI is needed to drive people psycho, just too many human-deviated implants. The more software you need to get an implant to work with human biology, and the more chunks of the brain you replace/supplement with tech, the more psychologically you deviate from being a normal human and the more your ability to empathize with others is impacted and reduced.
Add in pre existing mental instability and the people living in the shitty conditions of 2077 have on average a very low capacity for the more advanced and non-human-biology conforming cyberware.
No that would just be stupid and take away everything of what cyber psychosis is meant to be which is a mental illness brought about and made worse by other factors
@natebeare9978 we have a cyberpsychosis quickhack, so I'd be unsurprised if there was some influence, but it seems to be a combination of an event that sends them into a high stress environment, loading up on cybernetics, and something that sends them over the edge fully
Another great video dude. Your content for theories and ideas is always on point!
Thanks a lot choom I'm glad to have your support. I got a Black Dog Narration on the way out of RED then back to another theory!
Fantastic video Choom! One of your best yet. You really read my mind with this topic, it's something ive thought about ever since I finished the game.
Not only do i believe a 5th Corperate War and AI Invasion are where the story is going, but i think one will lead to the other. What if fighting in the Net during the 5th CW results in the Blackwall unintentionally being destroyed. Or, an even mire interesting possibility, one side destroys it on purpose hoping to use the Rogue AI to their advantage. I definitely feel like this is a real possibility.
I'd also like to point out two things:
1: IIRC theres a shard that can be found throughout the game where geopolitical analysts claim a 5th CW will start by 2080
2: The Cyberpsycho encounter where we see Mealstrum worshipping an AI.
Between the second point and all the other quest that talk about Rogue AI, no doubt theyll play a HUGE role in the story later down the line. I cant wait to see if the events of PL play any sort of role in this!
Thanks a lot for the kindness and support choom! Especially for the additional information. I'm hoping we see some more progress in this plot during PL. I originally believed the DLC would be almost entirely about Paralez but not entirely sure anymore on that. Though I can see more being added in relation
My theory?
In Orion, our character will stumble across and make contact with an AI from beyond the Blackwall. A benevolent one though; who says they've come to warn humanity with their siblings that a war is coming due to the hostile AIs. The game proceeds as we watch the corps try to fight the AIs and people become corrupted by them.
Our character will be able to channel blackwall abilities through their skill trees and will be vital to a corp/the corps in fighting the AIs.
Either join the corp (could be like The Devil ending) and help them fight them, or work solo or with friends.
...
Waitwaitwait.. what if.. no..
What if you play AS a Blackwall AI?
Begin the game, character investigates the Blackwall on a risky job and an AI gets through and joyrides them, taking over their body. Either through their death or an alliance the AI is now at least partially in control of the body and the plot continues from there.
Oh my god. That would be really good, I'm not going to lie.
Obviously it would be more ironed out than these scribbles but yeah, plot, boom, right there.
I guess we'll see when it's out.
the choice of the Orion constellation may be of importance, but it must be noted that most other CDPR projects' working titles refer to either famous stars or contellations. The two upcoming Witcher games are called Polaris (referring to the North Star, Alpha Ursae Minoris) and Sirius (Alpha Canis Majoris). Then there is the Cyberpunk sequel (the Orion constellation) and an unnamed unrelated project called Hadar (Beta Centauri).
Cdpr is an alien confirmed
The fact that in phantom liberty (songbird aside) Erebus and the militech canto MK6 both imply that they can also use humans as flesh puppets to act out their own will, E.g calling people waste of resources when you kill them not cause the AI’s care about people but because you’re damaging both what could be a future puppet and their cyberware, only further cements the theory that Mr Blue eyes is actually being controlled by a force beyond the Blackwall similar to how songbird might have ended up
I feel like V will play a major role in the fifth corpo war. Cause V in roman is 5.
Mr Blue Eyes is visable on surveillance camera in the space port during Killing Moon in Phantom Liberty.
He is visible on the platform when the train leaves for the shuttle. He standing there with an umbrella
Fantastic video man. Good to know I am not the only one that has seen this coming. Couple of things on this to support it:
1. There is a mission you do for Padre, that at the end of it he tells you that everything he has seen points to Arasaka trying to start a new war with Militech. SO even in the base game, things are being put in place for another corpo war.
2. I will not give any spoilers, but after the events of Phantom Liberty, it is even clearer that the AI's on the other side of the Black Wall are planning something big.
3. As someone else has already pointed out, Brigette mentions a digital war is coming.
So yeah, it is obvious that CDPR has had this whole thing planned out for some time now. The signs and clues are there. Now we just have to wait a few years to find out what exactly it is they have planned for all of us...
I also like to think the Illusive Man from Mass effect has some sort of connection
Cyberpunk has a lot of easter eggs and external references, Mr Blue Eyes' look is probably one of them
No, dummy.
Different franchise.
Would just be a for-fun Easter egg.
It would cost them way too much money.
Honestly if they add depth to the 2.x version of the game id be happy a 5th corporate war as well as the ai invasion is a strong base for the base game and an opportunity to have a new protagonist as well as more backrounds for the protagonist and if were going deep into the ai uprising id love to see levels similar in asthetic to tron maby they can be like the bds interactible with a avatar or even bigger a net version of night city that you have to be jacked in to see
Lucy is gonna be involved. A born and bred netrunner with tons of experience with rogue ai and old gen cyberspace who literally lives on the moon. All but guaranteed to have something to do with all this.
I found this video after I came to the SAME theory after playing Phantom Liberty.
Crazy that this vid was made BEFORE the release and events of Phantom Liberty lmao wild
'I've stood on the back deck of a blinker bound for the Plutition Camps with sweat in my eyes watching stars fight on the shoulder of Orion...'
- Roy Batty, Bladerunner
I guess that ripper that doesnt have any cybernetic implants will be fine
I have a theory that Delamain is not itself from beyond the Blackwall, but it was infected by one (or more) AIs from beyond that then fractured off from it and tried to go their own way in the real world. The part of Del that says it is from beyond the Blackwall is one of those splintered off "children" parts of Del, not Del itself, and if you choose to merge Del with his "children" or let them go free by destroying Del, you are in fact unleashing the rogue AIs into the real world. Essentially, I believe the rogue AIs are all constantly trying to break out, and the Delamain situation is them actually succeeding at it through the backdoor of binding themselves to something on the real world side of the wall, much like Mr. Blue Eyes.
Unfortunately there’s a message on a computer in game about buying him the ai I mean he is definitely from beyond the Blackwall
Delamain is a tamed rogue ai that the taxi company paid for. when V got shot by Dex and was being transported to Viks Delamain requested Takemura connect V to the cars system directly, shortly after that mission Delamain experienced the virus for the first time implying the relic caused it. When you take the cyberware or gun you get from siding with Reed to the final Delamain quest they diagnose the problem almost instantly. The diagnosis sounds identical to what is happening to V but with multiple personalities instead of 1. When you merge all the delamains together the cyberware/gun will say something along the lines of "You expect this to help you, how foolish"
Now that Phantom Liberty has come out… I’m convinced there is a 5th Corporate War in the future of this game. But the players aren’t JUST corporations… and you mentioned one major player here already: AI’s.
The NUSA is likely to be involved as well, not just Militech. And in the expansion we have V doing work with the NUSA as a newly minted FIA Agent… a spy. I think this coming war is going to drag V back in. I’ll not be specific here in case anyone watching this hasn’t played the expansion yet, but I’ll say that even in fiction, you’re never really out of the game. Once government has its hooks in you, you’re stuck and I think that goes double for the NUSA. I’ll bet Arasaka has renewed interest in V also.
Maybe the NUSA will make another play to Unify? Corporate War would lend plenty of chaos for the NUSA to make such an attempt. Could even give them the “Moral High Ground” for it, even though the only thing Myers wants is more power.
And of course, within this mess are the AI’s from beyond the Blackwall. Maybe with “Alt” leading the charge there?
I also think it’s AI’s running Night Corp; if not directly, then for sure through proxy.
What i enjoy so much about Cyberpunk in general is that we as a player in 2077 do not really change anything really.
After V is gone the city does what it always does, and we have changed nothing.
I enjoyed your theory and honestly i hope that we will get to play during that time of upheaval, my hope is once again that the player is basically powerless and does not overthrow anything to create world peace all of a sudden.
True that Night City will survive and no real major improvements to the system are made regardless of V's actions, but on the other hand Vs actions (intentional or not) led to the destruction of Arasaka in most endings which is a huge change in how the world works since Arasaka was already the world superpower and if it survived the games' events it would have used the Relic program to secure immortality for its leadership.
personally I think you have a massive impact. Yorinobu is starting a 5th corporate war to destroy Arasaka. Depending on your choices you can leave him in power to start the 5th corporate war. Or you can defeat him and get him replaced by his father who will steer Arasaka away from another war. So your choices could not have a bigger impact on future lore
5:25 the word your looking for here is proxy war, a war between two Partys who never officially declare war on each other, but engage each other throughout various conflicts and wars in which each side has an interest in not losing, this happened IRL during the Vietnam War where the Soviet union often provided weapons and unofficial air support for the vietcong under the table even though they were never officially at war with the USA, this is also what is happening right now in Ukraine although it's not popular to call it what it actually is.
The Star is the Canon ending and I'll explain why, shortly, because I know the overall sottry of Cyberpunk Orion, you only need to know the mythology behind Orion...
this is the legend:
"Orion was a huntsman for a time, but was blinded after raping the king's daughter. Orion then travelled across the sea to lemnos to petition for help in recovering his sight. He then was directed to the rising place of the sun where Helios restored his vision, he then returned to Greece to take revenge on the king, whom fled and hid himself in a bronze underground chamber..."
Now, what i think it will be the main, overall story of Cyberpunk Orion:
"V was a Solo for a time, but he was condemned to a slow death after stealing the "Relic". V, then travelled across the sand sea to petition someone for help saving him/her life. He//She was then directed to the rising place of the sun (Land of the Rising Sun, Maybe Japan????) where Helios (Maybe the president of some Corporation, perhaps the new president of Arasaka????) restored his/her life...
I don't know if they will make "V" return after that....
And the information that Orion is not leaving the USA does not counter this theory because there is a State known as the "Sun State"...
Florida, that if you are pointing North, is East, the same as the Land of the Rising Sun...
I really hope they make cyberpunk 2077 decisions impact Orion's, like the Mass Effect series. I bet it won't happen but it would be freaking awesome, if it did
I wonder if they’re gonna touch on this in phantom liberty.
I'm hoping they do. It would make for a great plot between Night Corp and NUSA.
Well, the new Phantom Liberty ending shows there will be another war
Or could be Aliens. They did mention in one of the old books that getting over to the nearest system is just one long jump through the net.
All I gotta say is, the storytelling potential on this franchise is fucking incredible and I'm so hyped to see what they do with it now that it is both successful and has multi-media staying power. It's clear they have a winner they just need to keep up the quality and dive deeper. They also need to keep implanting history and depth into the context of the game's because they run the issue of being too far from the source for there to be "valueable" lore in the way of depth for the player.
I just hope they keep it grounded, the worst thing you can do in Cyberpunk is go full sci-fantasy.
I hope the DLC has a new ending where V accepts Hanako's offer and then infiltrates the HQ to implant something for Militech/NUSA that will start the war.
I think the second game should be a Corpo war that starts some type of AI incursion as each major company is weak fighting each other and then the AI start to bleed in.
I also hope AS STORYTELLERS they make good use of the symbolism the AI can represent in the plot to apply to our world now...not as just "AI" but as any kind of opressed latent force from the past. I think AI are the perfect force to EMBODY a kind of ideology or decision making humans make today: surveillance, control, belief in humanity and our nature, etc. I hope they exist as "gods" that embody our modern culture in a way they did in previous Cyberpunk works.
As I was watching I also thought about the fourth paragraph you wrote
Ima make a prediction real quick, if this is true, the next game will probably based during the corporate war just before the AI invade (or atleast before the AI invasion gets into full swing), with the full on invasion either being in a DLC (probably too big for that though tbh), or the next game
@CLB Ronin yeah, I think that'll probably turn out to be rather accurate
If the next game is a sequel I wonder which v ending will be cannon or if you continue as v or someone who knew them and where it’ll take place nightcity again would be boring if nothing changed
Idk if it's mentioned in the video but orion is most likely a code name. Most of cdpr projects have stellar/ constellation based code names.
1 Thank you for mentioning the ttrpg versions.
2 The feared AI uprising has been a thing to worry about since 2nd Edition (cp2020)
3 *This is super important* : Wherever CDPR goes with Phantom Liberty it *IS NOT* canon to the franchise and IP.
Unless R. Talsorian Games have given it their seal of approval, it will then become yet another alternate history of Night City. (Yeah, this is not the first time that this has happened).
I have been playing the ttrpg since launch in the 80s. There will be a source book for Cyberpunk Red (the newest edition of the game which takes place in 2045) that will allow you to play in 2077 on the tabletop.
Originally, 2077 was planned to allow you to bring your V to the table or one of your table characters into 2077 but that was never completed.
Again, wherever CDPR is taking this, it is not canon. That is not me hating, if anything; I hope that it makes people want to play the ttrpg versions because they are way more violent and better than 2077 is.
I mean from what I've seen Pondsmith fully endorses 2077 and Phantom Liberty as Canon material to Cyberpunk red. Though I am extremely excited for the edgerunner mission kit. Its going to have a lot of information to reveal, and I'm sure we will get a new story to fill in the gaps of Black Dog - 2077. Glad to have your support on my Content choom and am always looking for feedback. Been trying to gather some new information on Smasher, do you know if during the 2023 raid its ever stated what borg body he is in during the silverhand attack compared to his Dai oni armor in the blackhand duel? I can't figure out if he had Dai oni during the lab attack or switched between battles...
@@LayedBackGamers
Great question regarding Smasher. Even that is not certain as Pondsmith (who wrote that history) has wavered a few times and may not even remember the certainty of details now. Wish I could give you more but with any creative work this old, there are always retconns and inconsistencies that pop up.
I can look back through all of my collection of books but I doubt I'll find it.
We could technically jump over to Mr. Blue Eyes, though we can't do anything after that. And if we turn away, he is gone.
It's kind of eery how he just stands there completely untouchable. Wonder if our inability to attack him is due to a netrunning tactic
Imagine if you could play in the Net. Like you can interact and kill AI etc.
This hits hard after songbird's ending
I was playing yesterday and I entered the Net part of a computer and entered Arasaka
I don't remember the exact name of the tab in the webpage but there was an article about something to do with a partnership with a company called ORION
I don't remember the exact content but it was something about a patent if I'm not mistaken
It could be a code or a teaser of some sort but I suck at deciphering those 😂
I'm not the best at ciphers but that sounds like interesting information. I'll have to look into it if I can find it choom! Thanks for watching and for the info!
The lore of this world is amazing iv inky just started playing the game about 10 days ago now and cannot get enough
The news segment on Orbital Air suddenly surging up in stock price because AI trading bots suspect people with money will want off Earth quickly makes a lot more sense now lmao
Yep. I see a lot of tragedy on its way in the world. Bound to eventually end up in a blade runnet esque situation. Especially since biotechnica is seeming to approach a tyrel status
Just subscribed, because this man is cooking!
Outstanding video. With cybernetics implanted I don't see why not future AGI will not influence decision making of important people or the one's close to them.
A major war between factions alongside a world ending threat that humanity sealed away years ago?
This is just Skyrim. Todd Howard have done it again.
Got the same feeling that the main themes for Orion are gonna be these ones hope we got to explore a new city
Quality content choomba! Dont forget Lilith! Didnt she break through the wall with that Maelstrom Borg cult ritual?
Should've mentioned more examples of the rogue AI getting through. Lilith is definitely an important one because of that Maelstrom connection!
@@LayedBackGamers I've always thought that the Blackwall was up to something. Letting in select AI's like Lilith, Delamain and The Great Bozo.
That's crazy they copyrighted you keep u the great work Choom can't wait for the next stream have a amazing day Choom
Thanks a lot for the support choom. It's weird how the copyright system works but that's a part of youtube I guess. I hope to see ya in the stream!
Those damn Corpos!
@@luismadrigal-hidalgo exactly what I was thinking choom
This is amazing i cant wait to see where cyberpunk goes from here
Turn up the brightness
Tbh I think Johnny was wrong, I don't think this is at all rogue AI, I genuinely think this is just night corp trying out new methods to control the politics of the city
Edit: however I would be very interested to see how this would go if it does happen
Great video highlighting the stories about the corps and AI in 2077. Nothing you said is untrue of course, I just don't think any of this is proof the next game will be about an AI invasion. If anything, the main story focused so much on AI this time, I hope they move onto something different in the future. A full scale invasion would take us out of the cyberpunk genre and into post apocalyptic terminator type genre, thats not what cyberpunk is about.
Now this concept is how you rival new vegas. Now they just need to land the execution.
I definitely hope they manage to pull it off. I think Orion will be an amazing follow up to 2077. There's a lot they can do now since they have the frame work for Cyberpunk. All they have to do is expand on it now.
@@LayedBackGamers, Agreed. A rocky start is still a start. I can see CDPR has passion. They just need clear direction.
What I was surprised about in the first game was the lack of robots and AI counter parts to help you in missions. You had one AI gun and you don't get to keep it. You get one robot crawler and don't get to keep it. You had Johnny Silver hand in your head but he could do nothing to help you fight, and he was an Ghost in a shell. Just a big wasted opportunity.
Definitely think a lot of the quest / story features got wasted. Such as that nomad tank. Why would we not have access to more vehicles like that?
Actually you were right on track! In the new ending of the game after Phantom Liberty, 2 years after 2077 , so in 2079 Arasaka pulled out of Night City and instead Militech fully moved in ;)
Speaking about the Blackwall, I find it hilarious how the Blackwall is actually an AI itself. To start the AI invasion all you would have to do is to teach this AI to stand with the other AIs.... ^_^
Great video awesome storyline, very accurate conclusions. Keep it up and we will solve the mystery.
Thought provoking as ever. The ending of 2077 has a massive impact on future lore and the sequel of the game. After Yorinobu kills Saburo and takes control of the company he starts pushing Arasaka and Militech to a 5th corporate war as the only way of totally destroying Arasaka. if Saburo comes back by taking over Yorinobu's body then he will steer the company back to normal and away from any chance of a corporate war. Militech had no interest in a war... it was just Yorinobu trying to start trouble. So yes a 5th corporate war is innevitable but only if Yorinobu remains in control of Arasaka. Personally I think the canon ending will see V beyond the black wall and he will give his body to Johnny Silverhand. Although I see that the net and AIs will be very important in the next game. I have no clue what the story will be. But I think V being behind the black wall gives us a whole new world to explore. We may even be able to switch between characters in the game as we switch between the net and the real world. Maybe V takes over human victims to allow the gamer to switch between net & real world. Maybe V and the AIs try to stop Yorinobu & the 5th corporate war. If you are right the AIs are going to start a maliciois invasion of the real world. in the next game.. why? what do they want ? Do they care about flesh & the real world? Or do you think Rache is somehow able to control every AI to start an invasion? Definitely a lot to think about on this topic. Mike P has done a great job of leaving lots of clues & red herrings to keep everyone guessing. So I don't think we can guess the next story
Don't you think it's odd that, in Cyberpunk, we all replace our eyes with optics, made by Kiroshi, whose logo is magenta, and not just any magenta, but a very specific magenta that has a very specific hex code?
Yeah I've started thinking recently after seeing some talk about Kiroshi in relation to ff, that perhaps if you can find something in game before the kiroshi optics are installed
Read NEUROMANCER by William Gibson. As I was reading it made me think of Alt Cunningham and the ending of CP2077. All about A.I and this was written in the 60s.
Who are the 2 main conglomerates CINTO & OTEC that are really behind the fourth corporate war. And do they start up the 5th corporate war by introducing the rouge ai through night corp
Alpha Centauri is in the Orion system and is apparently where the aliens come from according to Garry so probably something there
I always thought it was funny that NightCorp tells you not to do anything but then immediately follows up by saying that you won't change anything. Comes off as silly, not intimidating.
Orion named projects alude to them being very big or very difficult. I think that what it probably alludes to.
Amazing video
This is a solid theory
Thanks a lot McJcave! I hope to see you in the next stream choom and as always thank you for all your support. Rock on choom
The blue eye guy looks like the illusive man from mass effect.
Tbf in witcher 3 it became a war game maybe, cyberpunk 2 basically leds to the start of war then you could import cyberpunk 2 character into the war itself. We can only imagin how gigantic cyberpunk 2 since witcher 3 and cyberpunk 77 used last gen tech and the second cyberpunk will likely be next gen
There's a possibility you missed, AI posing as Alt may not be an AI at all, it could be Bartmoss himself.
Don’t forget Arasaka planning a false flag op with tiger claws theres a fixer mission about it
*SPOILERS FOR PHANTOM LIBERTY* One other thing - After PL i started to think that Mr Blue Eyes will help only IAs, Songbird is starting to merge with IA and dying and he offers her help but in King of wands she doesn't contact us directly - what if he wants her to become IA? same with V - In Sun ending we are basicly relic in V body so he offers help then. (sorry if my gramar is bad :/)