In most sitcoms the character arc that was probably not the main arc just a part of their personality they started out with steadily become the only character arc. Found it with all the friends characters and even ofah etc
I always thought Phoebe was a good representation of a traumatized character. People who grow up traumatized can lose their filter and either not know or care that what they're talking about will make things awkward for other people, because it's their life and it's so normal, and keeping it secret and pretending to be well-adjusted is a lot of emotional labour. Phoebe was honest about being traumatized, and didn't care that it made other people think she was weird. and I love that. Her dark backstory informed her character, and I thought it was refreshing, instead of having her only talk about her trauma in serious moments. Living with trauma can be like that!
I feel like when people accuse Ross of homophobia, they keep missing a crucial point: he’s angry at Carol and Susan not because they’re not straight, but because they cheated. I 100% believe they’d have written his resentment the same way had Carol cheated with another man. Sure, lesbianism being the butt of the joke can be unsavoury, but I don’t think the writers did it maliciously
The show came out before twitter, and before wokeness. It was progressive in its time but was made when we could still laugh at things without a load of angry articles saying it's problematic
Not only that, but he was still semi-civil to the person who his wife had an affair with, despite her being rude and dismissive to him, so that he could still have a relationship with his son.
Well sure , and remember Friends was one of the first American TV shows to intergrate LGBTQ characters, storylines. Especially on a longterm basis. Which was pretty impressive and groundbreaking at the time. And why today many may view those things as cringe, it actually pretty much reflected society's view at that moment in time. And why today most shows have a gay character, basically almost a " sitcom trope" today, like the ditzy friend, rebellious child, doomed relationship plotlines of the past. It's mistakenly refered today as " woke" because some are determined to make that the most overused term in history. But it's actually societal evolution, and growth.
what the hell is ,,homofhobia” ??? cuz me not agreeing amd feeling disgusted with men poking each other where they defecate and 2 women using dildos to substitute a dick isn’t a phobia …
I always felt that Rachel and Chandler were the characters that grew the most, while the others became more and more caricatures of who they originally were. Monica less so than the others, but she does still become a bit of a caricature.. I'm still disappointed that Rachel got off the plane. That was Rachel's dream job, and Ross' meddling made it clear he will doesn't respect her job or her dreams, that his are more important. He spends all this time trying to keep her there, and never even thinks about going with her.
I agree but I must add that they addressed why Ross felt he couldn’t go with her, it was bc of Ben (a bit of a poor excuse albeit but an excuse nonetheless)
@@peoplehelppeople6612 but Ben also had 2 moms. He would have been fine. But Rachel probably couldn't have handled being a single working mom without anyone's help alone in a whole new country a after she was so used to being around her 5 friends for a decade. Ross should have went with her to Paris.
my argument for the joey-rachel relationship has always been that she needed someone to actually love her for her and not the person she was in high school. as much as they didn’t make sense, he fell in love with her practically at her lowest. i actually could have seen her influencing him to grow up a bit before they decided he was getting a spin-off. it honestly makes more sense than the actual ending.
Yeah I know it's an unpopular opinion on my end but I do find Joey and Rachel to be a sweet pairing for the same reason as you, and I think if the writers had taken a different angle it could have been more appealing/enjoyable to viewers rather than awkward. Not that they should have ended up together, but I do think that arc could have felt a lot more organic with some tweaks and I don't hate the concept itself.
There is no evidence to suggest that Ross only loved Rachel for the person that she was in high school. There is evidence to suggest that Ross loved Rachel during high school and when she reappeared in his life, particularly when he was at a low point in his life, those feelings of love resurfaced. Ross would love Rachel regardless because she is essentially a version of Monica, who he loves the most. Remember also that Monica ends up married to Ross's best friend, Chandler. Both Monica and Ross fell in love with their sibling's best friend. I'm not saying this to say there's some weird incest feelings between Ross and Monica but if you are close to your siblings as Monica and Ross are, it is normal to seek after and have feelings for people who are similar. As long as Rachel was Monica's best friend and she was nearby, I feel like Ross would always have feelings for her. There is a double regard he has for her, not just as a woman he loves, but as a woman who is also the best friend of someone else who he loves. He loves and cares for her in a stronger way than he would for any other woman.
I hated the Joey and Rachel relationship! It felt completely not real! To me, it was simply because their friendship seemed real and they found somethings humorous together. But Rachel’s character (imo) would never put up with Joey’s behavior in a relationship. Just my thoughts.
Thats such a female thought. Men dont fall in love with "who someone was in high school". Im still in love with the same girl I met at 14... We are 40 now and she has, to an untrained eye, changed into a completely different person but I still feel the same. Cuz the core of what makes her her is still the same, regardless of who she was then and is now and thats what I fell in love with. Her... For being her. Then, now or tomorrow.
I grew up in an Anti-Ross household (even though I am the odd one out for wanting Rachel to be with Joey lol) but damn David Schwimmer is such a good actor
It's weird, I'm usually on Ross' side when it comes to his and Rachel's relationship based arguments. But I'm usually on anyone but his side when it's not relationship stuff. And then by season 9, when Ross is going to therapy, he actually becomes one of my favourites.
He was a great comedic actor for the show, but I hated him through it all and if Rachel were my friend I would warn her to stay away from him. Too selfish, possessive, insecure and most of all so ugly. It’s funny someone else says he was the best looking. I always had trouble watching (edited: because his character is so horrid to me) he became ugly to me. (Edited: but yes, he did age the best, and he was good in the OJ Simpson movie).
Wait! Joey was also the most loyal. He also accepted anyone, literally anyone on their own terms and he was completely non judgemental. Those qualities are to be admired. They are very rare.
Joey was a great friend ... and what you would like to have in a friend. Concerning his loyalty and unwavering support and commitment. Even when it's not directly or equally reciprocated.
There was the time in (Vegas, I think? Fuzzy on that) and Rachel was drunk. Joey gave her the "How you doin'?" When Rachel responded positively to it, he IMMEDIATELY ordered her cut off and be watched. He could have taken advantage of her, but Joey isn't like that. It was one of the moments that endeared me to him. He was a GOOD friend.
Right? I dont get why people say joey cheats when he doesnt, he just hooks up with attractive girls and then ghosts them and thats it. He never cheated while he was in a relationship tho (unlike ross bonnie & rachel)
I think they should’ve ended it with when Rachel comes back saying “I got off the plane” they have a conversation where Ross wants to actually go with her to Paris with their daughter so that she can have that experience & progress within her career. It would’ve given that satisfaction of Rachel actually did it! She worked her way up & pursued her dreams & it all paid off in the end. WHILE ALSO showing growth & character development in ross. Not trying to repeat the same mistake as before, showing how much he truly respects Rachel & her career now & making up for the times he’s held her back before. & that’s how you have your cake & eat it too because the audience would’ve also been happy that they finally got together in the end.
@@abulnese but if Rachel did go to Paris and Ross stayed, then he wouldn’t be around Emma. Either way, one child will be in another country. But it’s Rachel who gives up her dream so it all works out conveniently for Ross. However, I think Ross giving up his life in New York to support Rachel’s dream and go with her to Paris would speak a lot louder that his character has grown rather than leaving it to the last minute to profess his love to her at the airport.
Fully agree, and since I'm cheesy, I say: let him be sad and mopey about her leaving, then everyone else get's fed up, and says the opening line, "so no one told you life was gonna be this way, and even claps as in to say wake up, get over it" and adds that he should deal with life being different than wha he expected and get om the plane to be with her. Yes, chesse, but c'mon Title Drop in the last episode? Perfect
Surprised you didn't talk more about Phoebe's arcs pre-Mike. Everything with her meeting her Dad, her brother, finding out who her real Mom is, carrying the triplets, that's all my favorite "dramatic" stuff from Friends.
Probably, because, the "dramatics" of Ross & Rachel, as well as the steady life of Monica & Chandler, got to overshadow Phoebe's arc in every possible way.
Yeah that's nice, then it never goes anywhere. The effects don't matter, the new family members she finds never comes back, or just as well shouldn't have, and the triplets, none of this has a lasting impact of her or anything she does. Neither does her aunt dying off screen.
Because her arcs don’t affect the show. Like Phoebe or not she is the most disposable character in the series. Get rid of her and not too much actually changes in the dynamic.
@@filiporvik2782 It’s really unfortunate that the writers did that. I kinda wish that, instead of Mike being Phoebes happy ending, her happy ending could’ve been getting to reunite in some meaningful way with the family she had reconnected with over the years. That would have given her the family she’s always wanted and been more meaningful to the audience than…Paul Rudd. (No offense to Paul, he did a good job).
You know, while the Joey and Rachel storyline was not going to go anywhere, it did give us the opportunity to see Matt le Blanc's best acting in the whole show in my opinion, in the scene in the restaurant where he finally tells her. For a moment there, he actually acts like a mature adult who is dealing with loss... and that is really fantastic to watch. I always felt bad for Matt that he never got any really good storylines to act out and he always had this one note character, so it was really great for him to watch him be able to have something really meaty to work with for a change.
David Crane and his partner Jeffrey Klarik really did Matt LeBlanc a solid when they wrote their 2011 meta-satire called "Episodes" around Matt LeBlanc (the character). He's so different from Joey in that role and is making fun of what people would expect from "Matt LeBlanc, actor who played Joey".
By the end of the show, they did Matt LeBlanc and Courtney Cox so dirty. Monica went from the cool, collected, sassy mom friend to nothing but a shrill bundle of nerves. Joey was always a bit of an airhead, but he was witty enough in the first few seasons that he could actually riff with the other friends. By season 10 he was completely devoid of braincells to the point where it wasn't funny anymore. I think the others got decent development and character arcs that mostly made sense; Rachel in particular had really strong development through the whole show. But what they did to Joey and Monica was unfair.
Its sad, she was a capable, pretty and strong woman in the beginning, then she devolved into this OCD freak that only has OCD as her defining feature. Rachel definitely came a long way compared to the dumb princess that she started out as, although I really hated her relationship with Ross, generally I hate that they keep doing the on and off and on and off bullshit like a lot of sitcoms do, it kills any love I have for the interactions between characters. Especially the "I thought we were on a break" bit, if it was a deal breaker, just fuck off, if you can forgive him for it, do it already. I'd love it more if Rachel actually went away and got with someone else or if they got together earlier and stayed together. The particular part where I hated their relationship the most was that Ross was with someone and then Rachel had to be all jealous and shit. Extremely toxic, she didn't want him, but she also didn't want anyone else to have him.
Yes! There's not a storyline I hate more in Friends than "Joey can't speak French". I felt like the creators were insulting my intelligence there as a viewer.
I choose to believe Rachel gets off the plane but DOES NOT give up the job in Paris. She makes a call, sorts it out, and goes to Paris at a later date. Ross ultimately moves to Paris with her and gets a job at a fancy museum or a professorship. Either way, I refuse to believe she ends up like Donna from That 70s Show. Donna should've stayed on that bus!
The one with the Lesbian Wedding may have aged poorly, but we can't expect a 2022-perspective on LGBTQ issues in an episode written in 1996 (or so). Also, I always liked the subtle but powerful display of Susan's dad coming to his lesbian daughter's wedding as proudly as ever, wearing his Westpoint uniform and all.
Honestly i really liked their whole subplot because it showed lesbians in a kind of realistic way, having kids, taking care of them, just living a normal life. Which i think is nice for a sitcom of that decade. Sure some of the jokes aged badly but it’s a good storyline
Yeah,what do you want?most TH-camrs suffer from a case of presentism,they cannot for the life of them,judge something in it's time period and not put on it our modern outrage/cancel culture,same with the whole Ross "toxicity".
@@bobbyokeefe4285 I mean to be fair, Ross being a self-absorbed crybaby isn't really related to any current political or sociological issues, it was true then, it's true today and it would've been true 100 years ago lmao
@@airotkiv Perhaps...but that's besides the point,no one tried to go after the character back in the day,people got that it was just comedy without any moral judgement,now entertainment is all about virtue signalling,audiences take everything so literally without any context or distance.
@@bobbyokeefe4285 I think analyzing a show and its characters doesn't equal "going after a character". A show needs annoying characters too, not everybody can be likeable. Ross' character is obnoxious to many, but that's what makes him entertaining. Loving the show and appreciating the comedy and seeing Ross or others as flawed isn't mutually exclusive to me!
The binge model of watching doesn’t do the Ross and Rachel relation any favours. This was airing week by week before DVD box sets were a thing and you needed to build an extension if you wanted anywhere near a decent TV collection on VHS. Clip shows were still a thing because we didn’t have TH-cam yet. When you watch the relationship with back to back episodes it’s obvious how fragile it is, the issues keeping it from being stable long term.
The thing with Emily is that she didn't have to agree to get married to Ross if it was too soon. If Ross is foolish for proposing too soon, then Emily is foolish for accepting too soon. She also shouldn't have reconciled with Ross in the first place if she couldn't trust him. Emily's actions were understandable not faultless.
@@billmilligan7272 exactly, so it clearly wasn’t just a Ross problem. In fact, Emily was the original spontaneous one who encouraged Ross to be more like that. He might’ve taken it too far FIRST, but she caught up pretty quickly and kept that pace going after divorcing Ross.
If you recall though, she thought she trusted him way more than she actually did and seemed to realize it while she was talking with him on the phone. He asked her if she trusted him and she said no and then it was the end of it. Really she wasn't even being that unreasonable to expect him to cut an ex out of his life. The show did her so dirty by acting like she was being so horrible for wanting him to cut Rachel out of his life because they were the golden couple. Also think about it from her side, she wanted to reconcile with him after he had spent their wedding day/night/next day begging her and insisting that it meant nothing. She loved him and decided that their marriage was worth fighting for, so she goes to the airport and sees him getting on a plane with Rachel. After that it was once again Ross pushing to reconcile with her and she finally gives in again. Come to think of it, he seemed to push her into a lot of things because that's just how he is.
This is great analysis but I must immensely disagree with your take on Phoebe's ending. You must look at it through the lens of someone who has been through a lot of trauma. And as someone who has, nothing would make me happier than having a stable life with a loving partner. Because of her background, it makes a lot of sense for her to want this and they showed that in a lightbulb moment when she realised she DID want to be that "soccer mum". Also, I loved her relationship with Mike. I thought they were very cute together. He never put down her quirks whilst also showing that you can't really do shit like keep dirty rats around. He's a great partner for her. Phoebe had grown into a healthy, functioning adult with a healthy, functioning relationship, and that's all anyone who had been through what she had been through could ask for.
I agree with you, but the take on Mike being a prop was far too accurate. He felt out of place with the rest of the group. Perfect for Phoebe though. I wish they spent more time fleshing him out rather than highlighting the awkwardness in scenes with the guys.
I disagree with Ross/Carol take. Being a lesbian is not a flow, but cheating and using someone is. She used Ross, had an affair, left him for her AP, and tried to make the pregnancy and child only about her and Susan. If you take out the sexuality aspect that's a horrible person. Ross had all rights to his negative emotions and still he chose to walk his cheating ex down the aisle. He is a bigger person than me, because I wouldn't even been able to attend such wedding. And she asked his sister to cater... Actually, now that I think back to the show, I don't remember him being homophobic towards Carol and Susan at all.
I will die on the hill that the Joey and Rachel dynamic was way better than people give it credit for, and I think Ross and Rachel getting back together (and therefore the writing torpedoing Joey and Rachel’s romantic relationship very quickly after it began) only happened because of the potential audience outrage rather than something that was actually right for the characters. I just assume that Ross and Rachel broke up again a year after the finale, because I have zero confidence that they all of a sudden would work romantically together.
I agree. Joey and Rachel were actually really compatible. They both enjoyed media and fashion. They both had a similar sense of humour and intelligence, and a relaxed but dramatic nature about them. There had always been a little attraction between them that wasn't acted on. This could have been the moment Joey stepped up and Rachel started to take him seriously. Especially with how he changed after they moved in together. He was so supportive of her becoming a mother, even when it meant he had to make personal sacrifices. He was always so supportive of her career and personal choices and interests. He praised her for these things, unlike Ross who mocked her. He unconditionally adored her, whereas Ross always wanted her to change for him and fit into his world. I honestly think they were incredibly well suited.. and the show set it up perfectly in that moment where Rachel was pregnant and horny and Joey had been developing feelings for her and they went on that sweet friend date because Joey wanted to make her feel beautiful. But then the writers torpedoed it because they had their sights set on Ross and Rachel. Also probably didn't help that it was hard to take Joey seriously as a romantic interest since he was written as a man baby 90% of the time :(
THIS!!!!! I don't get why this is such an unpopular opinion. I thought their pairing was actually incredibly fitting and sweet, especially in contrast to her relationship with Ross. She actually shared interests and values with Joey and he respected her feelings more than Ross ever did. They brought out the best in each other in a lot of ways. It also makes sense to me that someone like Joey wouldn't be able to fall in love with a woman unless they were good friends first. It was kinda beautiful to see love grow due to them genuinely caring about each other and enjoying each other's company.
Yes yes yes, to all 3 of you! It is so frustrating being in such a minority opinion in the fandom, but I really love Joey * Rachel, and hate how so much of their potential was wasted on Ross drama (I do love Ross too, but this couple should have been given a chance and could have a storyline outside of how it made Ross feel).
I actually have an argument for Joey and Rachel. It all started when she was pregnant, Joey was taking care of her and they were living together. On Rachel's end, she's having needs met by Joey that Ross couldn't because he was starting a new relationship. She's vulnerable, has a nice "date" with Joey and you can see there is some chemistry there. Joey has now built Rachel up in his mind and has been idealizing them as a couple. After a while I think it became a sort of forbidden fruit kind of thing and they wanted it the more they couldn't have it. This relationship had been so built up in their minds but when it finally manifested there just wasn't enough to keep it going.
@SayaCeline Joey was like a brother to Rachel, and that is why it made sense for her to reject him as she did in season 8. Meaning, season 8 was totally *not* alien to the history of the show in the preceding seasons, because, we do see that Rachel often times saw Joey as her younger brother and someone she could not relate with on an emotional and physical level. That also means, of course, it was interesting and wonderful to see in season 8 that Joey came to treat Rachel right, like a gentleman, for it finally gave his character some character growth, but it did not have to go too far. You know, that even Rachel herself now suddenly falls in love with Joey, which was just far-fetched.
Someone once pointed out that all the girls have kids at one point in the show but never in a conventional way (Pheobe is a surrogate, Rachel gets accidentally pregnant and Monica adopts) because the showrunners wanted to show different ways pregnancy/motherhood could look like. Dont know if it’s real but i kinda buy it
Yes, Rachel and Joey was weird, but even more weird was the fact that after they 'broke up' the relationship was never talked about or hinted at again, they just went on as if nothing ever happened, and that really showed that the writers realised they made a mistake.
@@anshitgupta1294 roey was the worse plotline in the show imo. they were so wrong for eachother, great friends but a horrible relationship pair. everytime those episodes come up i skip them because of how awkward they were
I disagree with the analysis of Phoebe's ending. I always identified with Phoebe, having had a similar traumatic goodbye with my mother and suffering PTSD. And while I compensate with some admittedly weird behaviour and I have a fear of settling down and a strong flight reaction when I run into problems, one of my biggest desires is to just have some normalcy. A normal family, a permanent home and reliable friends. It's also what attracted me to my partner, who comes from a healthy family, grew up in one place in a quiet area of the country with good friends.
Well-said (and I'm sorry about all you've endured). There's really no hint whatsoever that Phoebe must sacrifice her quirkiness and originality in order to marry Mike. And Mike wasn't a boring blank slate plot device to give Phoebe her happy ending, he had plenty of great weirdness and humor and fun to him as well, and they're a fantastic fit. I think it's great for Phoebe to have someone balance her out and talk her down when she takes things too far, in a way that the other Friends were always too afraid or uncomfortable. The narrator of the video (which I overall loved) seemed to think that was a good thing, that the Friends would let Phoebe "be herself" and "not care what anyone thinks" but everyone needs a little grounding sometimes, and that's what Mike offered her. Her chance at "some of the normal stuff" was really beautiful, as were her vows to Mike about finally finding that family and future. It shouldn't be short-changed just because Paul Rudd sadly wasn't introduced until Season 9 and therefore the writers needed to rush the relationship a bit. I wish he had more screentime too, but what we did get was lovely.
I totally agree with you. Not to mention that Mike loved her weirdness and all, even saying it in his vows. I think her relationship with him wouldn’t change her at all, because she’s allowed to be herself with him (being that’s one of the reasons he loves her so much ❤)
I think when not focusing on the Ross/Rachel storyline plaguing the 10 Seasons, David Schwimmer can be the funniest actor in the show. That episode with Ben Stiller, the Sandwich episode and the White Teeth episode are all hilarious. Problem is, the Ross/Rachel storyline just takes precedence, and that is infinitely less interesting.
@English Giraffe Well said. Couldn't agree more. Back in the early seasons, mostly seasons 1-3, Schwimmer was really entertaining and funny as Ross, because, Ross' relationship with Rachel was working. They were still treating each other with more respect and admiration. Rather than pity and vengeance etc. Of course the latter makes for good comedy, but nuance is important. That includes, deciding later to push Ross through two more divorcres, including one with Rachel after Vegas. Which did both his character and that of Rachel a big disfavor, because, it felt like they were right back at square one as teenagers again, whilst they were adults already in their early 30s at the time. Not to forget, Ross hiding their marriage from Rachel, made his character seem very weird and unlikable. Poison the well etc. No wonder as a consequence, that Schwimmer has commented on the Rachel/Ross arc, and said, he would have made it less dysfunctional and unhealthy in retrospect. That includes the falling back in love and moving on again with Rachel.
Chandler's third dimension is his insecurity about his masculinity. This is because of his strained relationship with his paternal figure 'Charles,' who is queer. In the pilot this is expressed when he mentions he '[sometimes wishes] to be a lesbian' and then becoming ashamed because he didn't mean to say it out loud. In the pilot Chandler also mentions a dream about his mother, who is also unpredictable and extravagant. Chandler's 'normalcy' is his trauma response to having such over the top parents.
I get why they did it, but the finale made ZERO sense. *They're raising a child together* - Rachel moving to Paris was never going to be a "goodbye" between them.
@@unicornL Ben appeared loads of times in the series. He was just a peripheral character. He was in the Holiday Armadillo episode when he was all grown up. I don't know why people act like Ross forgot about Ben when he appears all the way through the series. Ben lives with Carol and Susan so he's obviously not going to be a permanent presence in the show.
The show is unfortunately written from Ross's perspective so what Rachel feels and whether she can keep her job and be together with Ross is never even considered by the writers.
Considering the last two seasons were building up to an ending the writers could have used season ten as Ross and Rachel doing soul searching and fixing their character flaws as individuals and as romantic partners so they could come back as a couple, a healthy couple this time, in the finale and earning it. Sitcom viewers are suckers for a redemption arc and to redeem not only two characters but also the relationship that had fans so invested seems like a no brainer.
_"Sitcom viewers are suckers for a redemption arc and to redeem not only two characters but also the relationship that had fans so invested seems like a no brainer."_ Tell that to the producers and writers at Friends and executives at WB and NBC etc. Or whoever was ultimately responsible for the storytelling and development at Friends. For I continue to wonder what went wrong inside their brains to have messed up seasons 9 & 10 as much as they have. I mean, when you have the actors, like Jennifer Aniston and Matt LeBlanc, voicing their complain, disagreement and stating why, regarding Rachel/Joey, you don't ignore it. There is a reason why it doesn't work and won't work. Not to forget, wasting potential on something more englightening and inspirational, like Rachel and Rose doing some soul-searching and slowly but steadily start working their way back together.
I've always felt this. I really love friends, and feel that season 10 slowly fixing Ross and Rachel's problems that kept them apart would have made it even better
The Joey/Rachel relationship made perfect sense to me. Joey had a deep aversion to change. Rachel, on the cusp of true growth, had enough fear left that she clung to her earlier self -- and made Joey the object receptacle for those feelings. Joey in turn felt he needed to grow but had no idea how -- and made Rachel the object vehicle for his growth rather than figuring himself out. I think the relationship was as inevitable as it was utterly doomed to launch, because their needs for each other were completely incompatible. And in the last one, in spite of his career success, Joey was the only one unable to truly grow and move on, which makes him the darkest character arc for me ... but then again I think just about every friend group growing up has one member that just stopped moving pretty early.
So? What's the problem with that? Should we all be sad fat geezers? With children, a spouse, a house with white fence? All boring things that LITERALLY tie you up for the rest of your days? I've NEVER understood what's the problem with not maturing.... That's for fruits and vegetables. I like GETTING OLDER, which is very different from GROWING UP. And I doubt I'll ever change since I'm 40 already. I plan to be an OLD teenager....
@@sideskroll Your life, your choice. I'm a little older than you, and as I look back at myself in my 20s and even my 30s, I think that the guy I used to be was kind of an idiot. Life has more meaning to me when I try to be all I can be. Reaching for the stars involves growing towards them. I'm my mind, failure to grow is stagnancy and a prelude to death. To me that's the opposite of boring. But you do you.
@@billmilligan7272 I was an early achiever. In my teens/early adulthood I LITERALLY was everything most kids dream of. I had a pretty "successful" rock band, acted a bit, was a skater, went out with the best chicks, had a nice motorcycle... Basically the "cool character" in a sitcom or movie. Nowadays I'm mostly a has been and I'm perfectly contempt with it to be honest. I devote 90% + of my time to working out and still get by on my looks alone. Whenever that comes to an end (and it will) I'll be ready to bite the dust. As I don't have any plans nor desire to have a family, get married.... Basically, anything "adult related". It just looks like a sad existence to be perfectly honest. I've been an "achiever" and now, a has been. I've known both sides of the coin and I can die peacefully now. (After I become fat and wrinkled that is) till then I'll keep on doing whatever I want whenever I want to and rejoice in the envy of my very much "adult friends" that are all married with children...😁👍
@@sideskroll you're talking so much about yourself on a video about Friends. If you're so satisfied and everyone is jealous of you, why are you trying to convince internet strangers about how incredible you are? Joey's issue was that he *wanted* what Chandler/Monica had and showed he wanted a committed loving relationship throughout the show but never matured enough to get there. He also failed to chose the right women for that goal (Ursula, Janine, Cecilia, Kathy, Erin, ...hell, even Rachel). So many episodes where he showed he wanted to find "the one" but hadn't yet. And its tragic to see a character consistently try to connect on a deeper level but be unable to. Which has nothing to do with whatever you're talking about with your own life and ego trip.
I never understood the Emily hatred. She was reacting very normal! She was being loved bomb by Ross the entire time, manipulating and gaslight by everyone because they wanted Ross and Rachel together. I defend Emily’s actions till this day as someone who has been in her shoes.
yeah, i think that when Ross said Rachel instead of her name in the wedding that relationship was over inmediately, it wasnt going to work after knowing that your husband still loves his ex so much.
Being concerned about his ex and her not wanting them to stay friends is understandable but completely alienating Ross from his other friends? That’s just selfish, toxic behavior. She literally tried to control his whole life because of her insecurities and should have ended the relationship way before. If you think her actions are still “normal” then I don’t know what to tell you maybe reflect on it a little bit.
@@claudiac5331 idk, if his other friends are also friends with his ex and want them together, i would feel uncomfortable of him hanging out with them all the time, especially bc ross didn't set boundaries. She didn't have insecurities out of nowhere, ross made it hard for her. And his love bombing made it hard for her to decide to simply break the relationship off, bc when they were together (only the two of them) it was good, but when his friends were around (including rachel) things got messy.
I think she was written in a way where we might have even cared for her character... but, not to be rude, I think it is entirely the fault of the actress. She played Emily in a irritating way where you do genuinely start to dislike her compared to the Rachel we know and love.
@@ponyosoultheir friends didn't want Ross and Rachel together at that point though? They specifically discouraged Rachel from going to the wedding to tell Ross how she felt, they just also weren't going to choose between their two friends for activities and gatherings because of Emily's insecurities. I can understand Emily not wanting Ross and Rachel to spend time together alone, but to expect either of them to miss out on group things? That's going overboard, Ross would eventually just alienate himself from everyone living like that
I always had the impression that chandler's dad was an irresponsible parent who would rather satiate his lust then actually take care of his son. I wouldn't say chandler is homophobic more like he hates his dad specificly because his dad was negligent.
Most of Chandlers complaints if swapped into a complaint about his dad hitting on girls/his friends moms would be gross. He only has about 3-4 complaints that are specifically about his dad being queer.
Same. I got the impression both of his parents were more interested in themselves than him, both had narcissistic traits. I enjoyed this video mostly but he missed the mark there. Chandler doesn't have to "get over" and accept his dad being abusive and self-absorbed. Transgenderism doesn't make his dad immune to being a shitty father.
I think part of the problem is more that making homophobic jokes at all is iffy. There is a bit of a trend where people who would otherwise be progressive slip into homophobic or transphobic rhetoric specifically when weaponized against people they have legitimate reason to dislike, such as midgendering someone just because they are a bad person and stuff like that. It creates situations where laughing at homophobia because 'okay' if directed at a target who is bad for unrelated reasons, rather than just focusing on those negative qualities If someone is a narcissist, hate them and make fun of them for being a narcissist. Their bad qualities are what are deserving of mockery and ridicule. But there was a heavy focus on Chandler having a negative association with homosexuality, to the point where people thinking he was gay was a weird running joke, so he always had a bad relationships with queerness, even if not out of homophobia. It's a complicated and nuanced issue, but tbh Chandler is still one of my favorite characters and even as a gay man, I didn't find his relationship with his father offensive
@@Bmoney902 That's the same situation with Carol, their sexuality doesn't excuse them. They still ripped apart and traumatized people because they wanted to please themselves. There are much healthier ways to break up.
it’s nice to see a deep dive of Friends from someone who doesn’t simply dislike the show. that idea that you should be ashamed of enjoying Friends still seems common these days - to see someone analyse the show critically and point out the things that it does well as a comedy is so refreshing!!
@@leejones8582 I thought that was just a joke, like when a friend just pretends to be mean, I mean phoebe has been there for chandler, but is just mean to him for no reason which makes it funny
I'm a gay trans man who grew up watching Friends (started at 3 years old and really haven't stopped over the last 21 years), and I grew up in a very rural area of NY where there were maybe 10 people of colour and nobody around me that was openly LGBTQ+ In that environment, the late 90's and early 00's version of representation made me understand that these people existed and could just be like "everyday people" (as in the main 6 to my child brain, lol) in the world. Looking back at it, it isn't the ideal representation of LGBT people that the late-2010s and beyond have strived for, but it was never meant to be that, it was good representation of the community for the time. The Seinfeld episode (where they're like "not that there's anything wrong with that") often gets brought up in these types of discussions, and that's not perfect representation either, and the LGBT people are often the butt of the joke; but, Seinfeld won a GLAAD award for that episode, and tbh that's how I feel about the LGBT+ representation in Friends- it's not perfect, or ideal, especially by post-2010s standards, but it was GOOD for the time. They even had the guts to introduce an LGBT+ couple that remains for the *entire* series in Episode 1!!!! Like I think that including LGBT+ people into being the butt of the joke *in a sitcom* is fine when every other character gets made to be the butt of the joke, and I don't understand applying modern standards to media that's literally over 15 years old. But yeah, that's just my thoughts as one LGBT+ person who was heavily impacted by Friends as a child.
Agreed. And they were also the first lesbian wedding on TV if I remember right. People saying that Friends is homophobic either didn't watch the show or take their jokes too seriously. The serious moments with representation ARE ACTUALLY GOOD. And the jokes are that. JOKES. To make people of the time laugh. If they age good or bad is irrelevant because their objective is to make people OF THAT TIME laugh. NOT TO SEND A MESSAGE. The Message btw, they DID SEND but in the serious moments with the wedding and with Carol and Susan. The writers knew WHEN to make the impact and make the emotions land.
@@emilytretyak2534 I hundredpercent agree with you, I don’t remember him being homophobic so I was little confused by that. If people are saying that hating a specific gay person is now homophobia that’s nonsensical, if I hate somebody for burglarizing my house and I find out that they’re Jewish I’m not antisemitic I just dislike a Jewish person for trashing my house. He could’ve had other comments that were seen as homophobic or insensitive it’s been a while since I’ve watched the show start to finish
I always feel the “friend zone” line gets an unfair misrepresentation. Joey says it in the The One With The Blackout, which was back in 1994 and its misogynistic meaning didn’t exist yet. It was actually the origin of the name. The joke needs to be understood in the wider concept of the episode. The 3 guys’ ineptitude/comfortableness with talking to people they fancy is being juxtaposed. Chandler is trying to act cool to impress a woman, but with each attempt, makes himself look more and more weird. Ross is being socially awkward and being too afraid to tell Rachel he likes her. Joey, in contrast, is laid back and relaxed and seems to have this massive knowledge of a world the other 2 guys don’t understand. The use of the term “friend zone” instead of “she thinks you just want to be friends” is there just to make it funny and hint at this abstracted world that Joey understands which makes so many women want to sleep with him. EDIT: Oh God. What have I created? The comments on this are a nightmare. To clarify: Being *Friendzoned* is a misogynistic concept, used by men who think that women are vending machine that you put 'nice' chips into until sex comes out. However, when this episode came out, the 'Friendzone' was not a thing yet and had no basis in reality. It's presented as an abstract concept for comedic purposes. Joey is applying it to Ross and Rachel because Rachel could potentially like Ross in a romantic way, but Ross's actions up until this point have given her no signals that he intends to follow up his initial comment about asking her out (which she responded positively to). So now Rachel just thinks of Ross as a friend. In this situation, Ross has put himself in this zone, not Rachel.
Also the idea of the friend zone is disproven within the show anyway, not only by Rachel reciprocating Ross's feelings but also by Monica and Chandler getting together after many years of friendship
Just saying that the phrase "friend zone" has "misogynistic" meaning shows how horribly spoiled and entitled you are, how horrible a human being can be to say something like that. A man is so much in love that he can't force himself to be away from a woman, the woman uses this feeling to turn him into her obedient toy and when anyone points out how shitty that behavior is, she cries "misogyny". If a man does this same thing, he is seen as an absolutely cruel asshole. A girl tried to friendzone me once, I had enough willpower to say no and cut any contact. I was twice in a situation when a girl was in love with me, I didn't want a relationship and I could say "let's just be friends" and take all the benefits from it, but the idea seemed to me as something absolutely evil and I rejected it outright.
@@Magic12553 Yeah, that's not a confusion, that's deliberately equating it. Friendhip can't work if one person is crazy in love with the other and the other is not.
I agree, but I think most people who criticise it are saying "this would be problematic nowadays" rather than "wow, I can't believe they let him say that!" We know it was acceptable in 1994, that's what's so fascinating
Thanks, you've manged to make me feel better about spending so many hours watching Friends back in the day. Just the once mind you. On the ending, yes, I guess they had to get the golden couple back together, but what I've never understood is why do it that way? It must have occurred to someone in the writing team that Ross going to Paris was an option, or even a long distance relationship? And yet they went with Rachel getting off the plane. Well, I suppose at least it was her choice, but her choice to also give up a great career? That's just plain awful.
I think he could've and would've gone with her, but just as with Emily and moving to London, he couldn't leave Ben behind, which I think is extremely valid as he was only 9(?) years old at the end of the show and deserved to have his father around on a regular basis. I also wonder how different a long distance relationship would've been back then, without smartphones and video calls and being cut off in a way we aren't anymore today (plus of course there was now another child in the mix, so one of the two of them would have to miss out). I don't know if that necessarily means Rachel shouldn't have taken her dream job, but I at least don't believe there was anything wrong with Ross needing to stay, I really appreciate that in fact.
@@BobRobertsMusic absolutely right, this was a time when if you wanted to get in touch with your husband to let him know you were labor, you had to _call his beeper_ and leave a number for him to call you back. Cell phones were something the friends didn't come by until the end of the show, and this was back in the day when there was no free long distance for cell phones (I know; I worked for AT&T Wireless Long Distance at the time, and explaining why members got 2 charges--one for long distance, and another for roaming long distance--was a chore I undertook literally dozens of times a day) and calling internationally usually required the purchase of calling cards. The problem is that the show didn't do a good enough job of displaying the fact that Ross was a dad to another kid already. Once Ben aged up to the point where he couldn't be played by a doll and the young actor was old enough to start to understand (or at least repeat) some of the risque jokes the show used, we saw less and less of Ben and the writers eventually forgot to mention him. Ross's machinations to keep Rachel in town were as much to be a part of his baby's life as to keep Rachel there. There were episodes soon after Ben was born that showed how bummed out Ross was about missing out on all the first moments his son had because he wasn't with him all the time, and he didn't want that to happen with Emma. Despite that, his machinations were despicable, and I was always ticked off that he didn't have the guts to sit down and TALK with Rachel about it like a grown-up. He was in his late 30s after all. The only way he redeemed himself was by telling her to go to Paris. When he realized that it wasn't just about the money and the position title, that she wanted this badly, he told her to go and to follow her dream. In the end, he wanted her to be happy more than he wanted to keep her there, which is a sign of true and actual love.
she gave up a great career?? She had a top positions at Ralph Lauren. In Manhattan. Plus, you don't leave a daughter without father just because you want to go to Paris, jesus christ
I recently started re-watching Friends for the first time in years, and I was thinking "Gee, I wonder if anyone on TH-cam has done a full retrospective of the entire run." Then I discovered this video on the day it came out. Great video, my friend!
i've been rewatching the show lately (the first time i've done it in almost eight years) and honestly for some reason, i appreciate monica and chandler's relationship even more. also felt like some character backstories (phoebe's for example) if you take out the audience's laughter they'd somewhat feel as if they'd stem from something kinda deeper than just for comedic purposes
I actually liked Janice. All thenfriends hated her but she was actually not a bad person. Yeah, she had that voice but so did the Nanny and I love her.
58:35 but it is explained. They wanted to make it seemed like it “wasnt a big deal” because it WAS so if they were to break -up it would end the friend group. This was the most accurate relationship. Because dating your friends doesn’t work out if there are any real feeling’s involved.
Didn’t Carol cheat on Ross with Susan? If so, then she is in the wrong. He has every right to be upset about that, and I don’t blame him for wanting to get back with her. He isn’t toxic. Insecure and jealous, yes. But not toxic. To say he’s toxic takes away from people who really are, and people we should watch out for.
Yeah Carol was "working out" with Susan and Ross was supportive of her finding a new friend. Everyone shits on Ross but Carol was his high school sweetheart. He lost his virginity to her, married her and conceived a child with her. After all this she betrayed him and her and Carol even tried to nudge him out of the picture with his own son. I'd go as far as to say Carol is evil in the early seasons. She has absolutely no regard for Ross and no respect for his role as a father. When Susan says they refer to Ross as "the sperm guy" or when they try to give Ben Susans last name I was spitting foam. It really struck a nerve with me as someone who experienced something similar with my own son.
@@jackthehat1093they met in college. It's mentioned when they started dating in the Thanksgiving episode where Chandler loses the tip of his toe by Monica. 😊
I've always said Ross & Rachel deserve each other as spoiled brats who never moved beyond it (their focus on the break being an embodiment of it). While Monica and Chandler have had to deal with their emotions and accept the unfairness of life so they are willing to work, talk, and listen to each other to create a truly healthy relationship.
I dunno. Both really seemed to mature in Seasons 9/10. Ross got therapy and Rachel was at peace with her life. I really wish they just ended the series as co parents, not lovers.
I wish that Ross had ended up with Charlie. She was absolutely the best match for him, compared to Ross’s various other partners. Why they trashed that relationship in the service of ending with Ross and Rachel getting back together, I’ll never know. The notion that partners who have virtually no interests in common except their kids make for a good longterm relationship is one of the stupidest aspects of showbiz pairing. And, I’m just going to say it: Monica belonged with Richard. The chemistry between the actors was off the charts, and afaic, Monica became a shrill shrew after that point in the show. I disliked the character, pretty much from that point on. I don’t know why, after a couple of years, sitcom characters tend to evolve into shrill screamers, but they set my teeth on edge. On Friends, Monica was by far the hardest for me to watch, after the Richard era. And if you watch the couple of episodes in which Richard appears again, you can see Courtney Cox return to Earlier Monica, a much better character. Also, in re Monica: do any of the recent critiques of the show focus on that wretched subplot about Monica’s hair in the Barbados episodes? Because that was so racist, so offensive - as someone with “ethnic hair” who suffered years of ridicule from other girls in a very white suburb - that I couldn’t believe it when those episodes aired. “Bad” hair? Wow. Not to mention the utter nonsense of pretending that a 30-yr-old woman with that type of hair wouldn’t have known how to manage it by then. As if there were no styling products or blow dryers, no scarves, no endless streams of articles in magazines about styling that type of hair. Since I was born in NYC and grew up on Long Island, I can attest that the summer humidity there can be brutal, and girls learn how to work with it. And have, since before the 90s. Appalling.
I liked Pheobe until she started being slightly mean towards Ross and Chandler. It made me realise when I was super young that sometimes people really do change over time. It was a comforting show at times. Chandler is still my favourite character because he did alot of personal growth and eventually finding love and a complete arc. Rachel too. I think the only person who didnt do any growth was Joey, he just kept doing the same thing over and over again though it could be a good representation of people who never change. Perhaps thats where the writers were going? It was just infurating watching him in later seasons but even though he acted like a literal child, he did have a loyalty towards his friends.
I never paid much attention to Friends back in the 90s, my wife and her sister loved it. But I was in hospital this year, so I binge watched it. I think it's revenge comedy. The Gellers are a dysfunctional family with a narcissistic Mother, Ross is the toxic golden child who can do no wrong, Monica is the scapegoat, she is maligned and blamed for everything, she is a perfectionist in the vain hope she won't be criticized . Jack Geller is the co-dependent husband and weak father. They even mention the toxic grandmother. I'm guessing the writers experienced this and crafted the story into a comedy. I'm also guessing that some family members would have watched the successful show and cringed all the way through. My favourite moment of all time is when Jack Geller gives his Porsche to Monica and Ross has a tantrum shouting, What about me? I'm guessing again, that something like this actually happened, maybe other incidents too. As this video mentions, Ross gets worse and worse, David Schwimmer plays it with relish, he got the full character brief for sure.
that just makes the friends a whole lot better in that perspective. Loved it in my youth but can't bring myself to watch it anymore. Maybe this will help me enjoy it.
I told myself “no more watching overly long analysis videos, they just eat away my free time” Then Stu uploads this video and I’m obligated to watch because it’s Stu I WAS ON A BREAK!!!!!! from long analysis videos for the time being
Stubagful videos are the exception. They have to be. No matter what kinds of videos you want to stop watching or never intended to watch in the first place.
I recently watched all of Friends, and it was honestly alot better than I thought it would be. The biggest surprise about the show is how edgy it was. It's not South Park or anything, but its humor has some more bite than people gave it credit for. EDIT: Insomnia Cafe sounds more like the title of a weird horror show than a sitcom.
Phoebe was always my favorite character on the show (I could never get myself to like Rachel as much as the show wanted me to). So much of it was Kudrow and what she could do with the material, but there are some key points to her in relation to the other characters: she is often the one to pull them away from their nonsense. One of my favorites: when she as "Ben" pulls the plug on the conflict between Ross and Susan while Carol is in labor. She points out how lucky the baby is to have so many parents caring for it, comparing that with her own background. It is because of this that Ross and Carol name their baby Ben. Ross' child is Phoebe's namesake. She is the one to start the group integrating again after the Ross/Rachel breakup, in the episode where Ross rescues them in the snow. She has an interesting in-and-out affinity/conflict with Ross: the evolution/anti-evolution argument. The bagpipe. Ross' comprehension of how to overcome her fear of the bicycle. In the fantasy episode of inter-romance friends she and Ross are the couple. It's interesting to me that the two characters who might be furthest apart have strands that pull them together in ways the others can't understand.
Much as you've said here, the fixation the showrunners/writers had with Ross and Rachel, to the detriment of the final episode, was really odd. There wasn't anything good about them together as a couple? In contrast, Monica and Chandler became better characters when they got together. I think Monica, Rachel and Joey were the worst characters of the early seasons. Chandler and Phoebe carried the show for most of the first few years.
Chandler’s character arc is the the most fruitful IMO. Easily the most relatable character for most cis boys. Joey’s goofiness is exaggerated and Ross’ desperation is too sappy and tropey.
What I love about friends is that it's that...friends. So many shows out there about mainly love and romance and treating friendships as an afterthought. As an aromantic who has had friends leave me just because they entered a relationship on more than one occasion, it hurts to constantly see media acting like friendships don't matter as much as romantic relationships. (It hurts when people do that too but I'm talking about the media aspect since I'm talking about a TV show.) Friendship means as much to me as romance means to other people and I have so often felt very alone for that. Any show where the main theme is friendship, or where the main characters are like a group of friends rather than a couple, I really cling to shows like that. In this show, they even have some of the main group date each other but still manage to make it feel natural and like the other friends still matter. Why can't everyone be like that rather than acting so weird when they enter relationships? Why should friendship change just because someone got a boyfriend or girlfriend? Anyway I really love this show because I really love that it's about a group of friends. I've heard of people thinking it's problematic but I don't think I'm seeing whatever is problematic about it. What I do know is it's a very comforting show for someone like me.
I feel so depressed finishing this amazing show. I started It in jan. this year and I also met this girl that was a big fan of the show aswell. And so, I've watched It everyday till today. I loved It!! She would always compare us to Chandler and Monica and I didn't quite understand until the London episode came in. Now that girl is my girlfriend and It just already makes me nostalgic for all the memories this show has made for us. Can't tell you how sad I feel now, without getting to have more of the experiences with these characters that helped me smile in life over and over again even tho that seemed impossible. I'll be there for you "Friends", cuz you're there for me too ♥️
I have to disagree with people who say that the Friends characters are horrible people. I think they are absolutely amazing, precisely because collectovely they have pretty much every negative trait a persona can have. The magic (both in the writing ans the casting) is that you love them in spite of that and that makes them feel lile real people. Let's be honest, every single person in our lives, from our parents to our friends, significant others, coworkers and so on have stuff we don't like about them
By the time season 10 started Rachel has already achieved her dream. She made it into fashion, she became independent, she became a self-made woman. Her arc is done. While going to paris would elevate her career, i would argue her career is already elevated as is and that Paris is more of a luxary then anything extordinary.
Idk I think Susan and Carol were pretty horrible to Ross, specifically in the beginning of the show. Idk where they got off trying to give Ben the last name of some random girl that the mom just started dating. Wouldn't matter if they were gay or straight, that's super cold.
Darling, if that is what you think is the worse, just imagine the lesbian couples that are forcing their children to transgender. Also, I don't really think it's just 'some girl she just start dating''. Let's give some credit to Carol too. She wouldn't give everything on just a whim
She wasn't just some girl the mom started dating. We see in the college flashback, that they had known each other since before Ross and her even got engaged.
@@kyleellis1825 that is wrong, in the episode where Ross think Emily will become a lesbian, he say that "when Susan met Carol" implying that she met Susan while being married to Ross
Sometimes, during my walks, I'll remember random Friends quotes and I'll start laughing on my own. And that's why I'll always love the show (Not really, that's just one reason, but it is a reason). I simply cannot be, nor want to be, objective about how "good" it is. That's just me.
Monica and Chandler are the superior couple, if only because they aren't spiteful to each other and don't actively disrespect one another's work. Ross and Rachel was so stretched out that they had to basically break it beyond repair in order to keep it from committing to either permanent breakup or eventually getting back together. And honestly by the end of the show I kind of wanted both to just find someone else but no, they had to force a kid in there to try and anchor them firmly in a potentially toxic relationship. Even though that literally did not work with Ross and Carol. Also a tiny, tiny tiny defense of Ross and the whole Carol situation. Yeah he exhibits some signs of "funny" homophobia that comes with the territory of a show made in the 90s and early 2000s, which is written from the perspective that bisexuality just does not exist, and thus they ultimately frame a lot of this in a rather narrow minded way. And seeing as all his friends seem to basically think and state their opinions along the lines of "People cannot be bisexual, so Carol leaving you means you somehow pushed her into being gay, and thus implying you are a failure as a man", you can see why it'd be a sensitive subject for him. The show even flat out has one of his friends tell him that he "pushed" Carol over the edge to being a lesbian. Which is not only super dismissive of gay people, super super dismissive of bisexuals (as it pretends they don't even exist) and it also implies someone finding out their sexuality is somehow the other person's "fault", and that they are a failure as a result of that happening, which is just......so messed up.
I gotta say what I've always say whenever I watch all of these : every characters hair starts out amazing and gets worse throughout the series. The boys get choppy too short hair and the girls all get flatter straighter hair whereas the only ones hair that starts out shit then becomes gorgeous was Ross my least favourite character I find a bit creepy but mum said he has a look that defines sexy (she used to tell me that sex was a specific look and not necessarily just good looking or attractive. I didn't get that with Ross. Just that he's a bit dorky and cringe at times. That being said the times when he acted more responsible and dominant he was more attractive rather than slobbering over Rachel like a disgusting simp )
If you like the subtle darker undercurrent in Friends, you should really check out It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia. While that show is blatant satirical black comedy, there is genuine depth and thought put into the characters and world-building. It takes the “laughing at bad/stupid people doing bad/stupid things” to the extreme, which ultimately makes it so satisfying when we are rewarded with rich and subtle character work exploring all sorts of traumas and disorders. Highly recommend it if you haven’t seen it- as somebody with a black sense of humour, I think you’ll love it. Just try to stick with it through a few rough early episodes. Great, thoughtful analysis btw :)
IASIP is possibly the greatest sitcom ever made the characters are fucking hilariously awful but have incredible depth and the satire/social commentary is top notch
I agree so much with how the Rachel/Ross series ending should have ended. I have hated forever how she once again sacrificed her career desires for a guy who literally would never. And we've seen Ross refuse to do a career move/change in canon with someone else: Emily. Like yeah, the argument of Ben is there, but Ben gets forgotten by like, what, s6? S7? Ross could have been doing a back-n-forth life there... but won't. So we can be like 99% sure if demanded by Rachel, he'd refuse her too. Ugh. The one-sided-ness of R&R with things like that just makes me more mad every time I rewatch Friends lol
Ben wasn't so much forgotten as it was the showrunners didn't want to work with too many child actors, especially when they had a recurring baby "actor". To write off Ross' attachment to his own Son just because they didn't have Ben on camera, kind of sounds like you're trying to devalue Ross' agency in this. It's like when people say "Ben is only in like 6 episodes, you telling me Ross only sees his son 6 times in 10 years?", it just means they only wrote so many comedic situations for the character and you have to assume he sees his son a lot off camera (much like how we have to assume Phoebe saw her birth mother more off camera) There's another comment on this video that lays it out better, but Racheal's life is not just about her anymore, it's also about her daughter.
@@sofiatakahashi5769 dude are you dumb or stupid lmao. He didn't tell Rachel he had that interview until later. I MEAN. I fucking haven't rewatched in a little bit, but I sure that's the case. So. No lmao. She didn't "manipulate" him out of a career thing or whatever it is you're trying to imply.
It's the biggest thing I'm mad about regarding Friends as well. Imagine if Rachel actually went for Paris... I actually would have preferred that and I think that would have carried a whole lot more emotional weight that the actual finale already does (I still fairly like it, but you get it). They played it safe for the fans by making Ross and Rachel "endgame" and making Rachel stay. It was a "happy ending" really unearned on his part, and an ending that really robbed her of something better for herself.
Monica is the mom friend because she was never given the emotional support of a mom, and is projecting that onto those around her. Well, no wonder I relate to Monica the most. Fuck.
This has been amazing! Friends will always be my comfort show, it came out when I was the same age and my friend group was my family. We broke away from our parents and drew together to create our own family and those years were golden… even when they were crap. Eventually we split off into our own families but those years make up an era that Friends will always represent to me.
On the topic of Ross, it's almost like people we like make mistakes. They all make mistakes. Rachel was wrong with the break. She said, "A break from us..." and then brands him as a cheater. Rachel went to England to sabotage Ross' wedding... Chandler was ashamed of his father. Joey used women. Phoebe enjoyed making people uncomfortable and sowing discord...Joey did this too. Monika is the only one I can't thing of ever being intentionally mean. Ross gets singled out because he was uncomfortable with homosexuality...no wonder...he was used by a homosexual and that impacts someone.
I watched Friends in real airing time. I can put on Friends, do 10 things, sit down for snack, and know exactly what’s gone on, what’s going on, and what will go on. I had at least 12 pieces of clothing that Joey wore, J Crew was big back then. Your analysis of the whole series is brilliant. Such great guest stars, Brooke Shields, my personal favorite, Christina Applegate, Tom Selleck, with and without mustache, Marlo, Teri Garr, John Lovitz, Morgan Fairchild, ok, now I’m just naming all of them. And the greatest recurring character ever, Maggie Wheeler. I had just moved from NYC when friends started, so it was an old, comforting friend, that just was. The Apothecary Table from Yor. Pottery Barn dishes. And yes, poor Paul Rudd. I liked David better. Any hoo, any beloved series ends kinda poorly, except Newhart, absolutely brilliant, and Mary Tyler Moore. My only issue with Kathleen Turner as Chandlers dad, hilarious, true, but in my mind, Chandlers dad was gay, and a drag performer, and not transgendered. I wish it would have been Harvey Fierstein instead. And that Joey spin off, horrible, nothing could have saved that. All in all, it was, we loved it, it brings back a simpler time. I only recently watched the Reunion show. It was fun, minus James Cordon, arsehole. HeeHee. And they should have had more of Dr Geller towards the later seasons. Once again, brilliant, and I loved the stick figure drawings. Cheers!
Only 5 minutes in, but the reason Phoebe is a more complete character is that she is the twin of a character developed on Mad About You. At this point I think the suggestion was that it is the same character. So, Lisa Kudrow had been playing this role for a few years and had already developed her back story.
If you want a low hanging fruit of sitcoms to bash, I recommend reviewing anything by Dan Schneider. Dan Schneider made sitcoms for Nickelodeon and former iCarly star Jennette Mccurdy is publishing a book called I'm Glad My Mom Died August 9th 2022 that is going to revile a lot of terrible shit about Dan Schneider and Nickelodeon.
I think modern audiences want more of a It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia approach where the characters are punished for their actions and end up leading shitty lives for their bad choices
That was only the mini revival series for it that ended that way, specifically to leave the door open for another revival...also the creative team confirmed it's Logan 😅
I really enjoyed your in depth analysis of this show. Love it or not, you cannot deny it is a significant piece of recent culture. Well done. Excellent effort and an overdue deconstruction. Thank you ☺️
Thank you for this video! As a massive friends fan who watches episodes on the daily, it’s great to see someone analysing the show and going a bit more in depth. It made me realise a lot of new things that will make watching the show a little more meaningful for me from now on :) Especially the way you explained Monica and chandler’s relationship and why they so desperately wanted to keep it a secret - finally I understand the reasons! That was always one of the question marks in the show for me before
Days of Our Lives is a lot of things, but medical soap opera? !? Also, Scrubs had a great finale as long as you accept the manta that season 9 never happened, or was really a bad spin-off. Season 9 is to Scrubs as the two seasons of Joey was to Friends or AfterMASH is to MASH.
The amount of times I wanted to scream JOEY YOU HAVE BEEN IN LOVE BEFORE is just painfull. Espiecally because the pregnancy by the end really made Rachel shine as an indppendant and mature person overall so what was there for her to gain from being somones first love? And what was there for joey to gain IF HE DID THAT 5 SEASONS AGO?
If you want a show with a compelling dysfunctional romantic subplot, I recommend Better Call Saul. Kim and Jimmy relationship is able to have a balance of making each other happy while also being toxic for each other. Farscape & Avatar the Last Air Bender also have fantastic romantic subplots with its main characters. I also recommend the show Monk for being a fantastic comedy, a fantastic detective show, and being fantastic at portraying the grim emotions of losing the love of your life.
This is so good! Thank you for putting so much hard work into this analysis. It's unlike any other analysis of friends that I've ever listened to or read.
Really fantastic analysis, one of your best videos for sure. I love seeing you talk so passionately about the characters, arcs and how the show sometimes fucked things up but other times did stuff right
As much as the show likes to depict its protagonists as cautionary tales for different types of behaviour, there is a feeling some are treated more leniently than others. Specifically Rachel. She’s the one the show has as the success story, rising from the bottom to reach her dreams by her own effort rather than buying her way straight to the top with her daddy’s money, yet the actual narrative doesn’t quite support this. She makes dodgy relationship decisions that if one of the others, Ross especially, would get called out for. About season 7 iirc she hires Tag, a younger man, as her assistant specifically because she’s attracted to him and they soon start a relationship which ends because the age gap can’t be ignored. If Ross did this he would be burned in the fires of hatred from every single viewer. Additionally this leads to a very badly aged piece of dialogue when Gavin is introduced. He challenges Rachel to say Tag’s last name. She has to admit she doesn’t know it, and when Gavin provides it she quips he must have been in the relationship with Tag. Laugh track. Again, if this were Joey or Ross, the scene would have ended differently. The final episode’s conclusion to the Ross and Rachel relationship is another misjudged one by present day commentators. It’s often said Rachel should have stayed on the plane because Ross dragged her down. This ignores the context, that Rachel still had a job in New York and was ready to move herself and her toddler daughter to another continent away from Emma’s father and any existing support structure without even talking to Ross about it. The show was using this as a career woman move, but ignored the parent aspect to the character.
@@jbcatz5 She did, but it was still a teacher-student relationship that was banned by the university with good reason. She's 12 years younger than Ross. She's what, 19/20 to Ross's 31/32. I would say Ross and Rachel suck at the same level with these two relationships. Rachel was Tag's boss, while Ross got himself a girl who wasn't even allowed to drink legally.
Great video. I always liked The Last One as it parallels much of their relationship. Mark being the catalyst for their break up as well as them getting back together. The airport setting much like the end of season 1 where Rachel sees him with Juley. I also like how this time Rachel prioritises her love over her career this time. The only thing I find weird about the episode is how bizzare that Ross is cool with his kid moving to Paris🤣
@@elijahfordsidioticvarietys8770 I didn't know that, and it does kinda change things, but considering death of the author, and what's actually in the show, I still interpret the character as a transvestite more than transsexual. Helena Handbasket screams stage name, the character works at a gay burlesque show, never corrects anyone's use of pronouns or old names. And sure, that might have been less of a thing then, and the character does seem the sort not to mind that sort of thing. Ultimately, I can see it both ways, but even knowing the intention, I stand by my interpretation.
@@vulpinedeity3379 "Transvestite" and "transsexual" are words that aren't used by people familiar and okay with these concepts. Just thought I'd tell you in case you care. "Drag queen"/"cross dresser" and "transgender" are the words to use, if I understand correctly what you were saying.
@@vulpinedeity3379 Fully agreed. I don't care about "Word of God" confirmations or interpretations and vastly prefer to leave things up to the audience. I also agree with your view in this specific case, that Chandler's father just seems to take his drag persona to an extreme, as there is never an indication that he identifies as a woman or has changed his name or pronouns. Simply a very flamboyant gay man who cross-dresses. But I understand the modern-day trans comparisons, those are fair enough. But the character doesn't give much indication aside from his attire, which really isn't strong enough evidence.
@@Wawagirl17 art is 50% what the creator intends and 50% what the audience gets out of it. They may have intended for Helena to be interpreted one way. But the larger viewing audience has taken Helena to be a gay dragqueen based on what the show provided.
I've never watched more than like twenty episodes of friends with my mom, but you asked for a trans person's opinion so I watched the one with chandler's father so I could share my thoughts. I think I was expecting it to be worse than it was. Chandler's father is very nice and Chandler is portrayed as being reasonably embarrassed by his dad, even if it is Chandler's environment and his own biases that lead to his embarrassment. I wouldn't say I was offended by it as the dad is not transgender but it still doesn't feel entirely not mean-spirited with the portrayal of the drag queens and the gay men. - a trans woman
Also to be clear, drag queens ARE NOT the same as 'transgender'. There are men that like to drag and still be very much heterosexual or even be a man for the rest of their time. I was just glad they didn't make Charlies an obnocious villan or something. For all his faults, he still loved his son.
@@oliverford5367 I see and validate this point. However I feel Rachel should have left his toxicity alone. Just my opinion. I don’t think we don’t have flaws but jealousy, control, and obsession is tooooooo toxic for me
@@starlaminde8436 Maybe you've been luckier than me. My experience is that it's not possible to find someone who cares about you but at the same time isn't jealous. If you have then great!
@@oliverford5367 being jealous isn’t toxic unless it’s extreme jealousy that also makes the person possessive and controlling. Everyone experiences jealousy even myself…it’s what I do about it that is healthy or unhealthy. My husband and I trust each other even after 25 years I am my own person and vice versa so we rarely find ourselves acting upon the jealousy issues. So yeah I’m lucky but we work at it also we continue therapy and go to marriage retreats once a year…to help keep guiding us in the right direction. I put my spouse in the same place I put myself …I love both of us. I don’t intentionally hurt or distrust those I love as Ross character did .
1:25 I suspect one reason for the reevaluation of Friends is that it began streaming at the start of 2015, less than a year after the disappointing, underwhelming, and just plain awful finale of How I Met Your Mother. The suckiness of that finale took the wind out of the sales of most HIMYM fans who'd been claiming it was so completely superior to Friends. And I'm even saying this as a former HIMYM fan (emphasis on "former") who'd never even watched Friends at the time. The sudden availability of a long-running sitcom that at the very least had a finale that didn't suck would've done a lot to help increase appreciation for the show as a whole.
![โอ้มายก๊อด! ไม่ถึงชั่วโมงหมดเป็นแสน 😅 [cc] แดนแพทตี้ SS2 | EP.42 |](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/OH2ShXfO6tA/mqdefault.jpg)
Joey was originally just the pretty actor guy and slowly became a literal child
I hate that specific character arc
In most sitcoms the character arc that was probably not the main arc just a part of their personality they started out with steadily become the only character arc. Found it with all the friends characters and even ofah etc
@@kookytoots6755 what is ofah
@@asdabir only fools and horses sitcom
The redeeming thing is that he always loved his friends.
I always thought Phoebe was a good representation of a traumatized character. People who grow up traumatized can lose their filter and either not know or care that what they're talking about will make things awkward for other people, because it's their life and it's so normal, and keeping it secret and pretending to be well-adjusted is a lot of emotional labour. Phoebe was honest about being traumatized, and didn't care that it made other people think she was weird. and I love that. Her dark backstory informed her character, and I thought it was refreshing, instead of having her only talk about her trauma in serious moments. Living with trauma can be like that!
as someone who has experienced a lot of traumatic events at a young age she is really great representation
Yeah, sometimes I can act just like her, forgetting that some of the shit I went through just isn’t normal people activity
@@hopekeeley2122 Same here
Is it weird as to why my speech patterns finally makes sense?
I agree with this but I also see some autistic traits with Phoebe that I relate to
I feel like when people accuse Ross of homophobia, they keep missing a crucial point: he’s angry at Carol and Susan not because they’re not straight, but because they cheated. I 100% believe they’d have written his resentment the same way had Carol cheated with another man. Sure, lesbianism being the butt of the joke can be unsavoury, but I don’t think the writers did it maliciously
The show came out before twitter, and before wokeness. It was progressive in its time but was made when we could still laugh at things without a load of angry articles saying it's problematic
LITERALLY! I feel like people can be so dumb
Not only that, but he was still semi-civil to the person who his wife had an affair with, despite her being rude and dismissive to him, so that he could still have a relationship with his son.
Well sure , and remember Friends was one of the first American TV shows to intergrate LGBTQ characters, storylines. Especially on a longterm basis. Which was pretty impressive and groundbreaking at the time. And why today many may view those things as cringe, it actually pretty much reflected society's view at that moment in time. And why today most shows have a gay character, basically almost a " sitcom trope" today, like the ditzy friend, rebellious child, doomed relationship plotlines of the past. It's mistakenly refered today as " woke" because some are determined to make that the most overused term in history. But it's actually societal evolution, and growth.
what the hell is ,,homofhobia” ??? cuz me not agreeing amd feeling disgusted with men poking each other where they defecate and 2 women using dildos to substitute a dick isn’t a phobia …
I always felt that Rachel and Chandler were the characters that grew the most, while the others became more and more caricatures of who they originally were. Monica less so than the others, but she does still become a bit of a caricature..
I'm still disappointed that Rachel got off the plane. That was Rachel's dream job, and Ross' meddling made it clear he will doesn't respect her job or her dreams, that his are more important. He spends all this time trying to keep her there, and never even thinks about going with her.
I agree but I must add that they addressed why Ross felt he couldn’t go with her, it was bc of Ben (a bit of a poor excuse albeit but an excuse nonetheless)
@@peoplehelppeople6612 I had forgotten that, likely because Ross seems to often forget Ben's existence. I always felt really bad for Ben.
@@peoplehelppeople6612 but Ben also had 2 moms. He would have been fine. But Rachel probably couldn't have handled being a single working mom without anyone's help alone in a whole new country a after she was so used to being around her 5 friends for a decade. Ross should have went with her to Paris.
@@xo-alien-xo yea like I said I’m not saying it was a good excuse but that was the excuse lol
@@H.P.93 I kinda blame that on the writers tbh but I get you
my argument for the joey-rachel relationship has always been that she needed someone to actually love her for her and not the person she was in high school. as much as they didn’t make sense, he fell in love with her practically at her lowest. i actually could have seen her influencing him to grow up a bit before they decided he was getting a spin-off. it honestly makes more sense than the actual ending.
Yeah I know it's an unpopular opinion on my end but I do find Joey and Rachel to be a sweet pairing for the same reason as you, and I think if the writers had taken a different angle it could have been more appealing/enjoyable to viewers rather than awkward. Not that they should have ended up together, but I do think that arc could have felt a lot more organic with some tweaks and I don't hate the concept itself.
There is no evidence to suggest that Ross only loved Rachel for the person that she was in high school. There is evidence to suggest that Ross loved Rachel during high school and when she reappeared in his life, particularly when he was at a low point in his life, those feelings of love resurfaced. Ross would love Rachel regardless because she is essentially a version of Monica, who he loves the most. Remember also that Monica ends up married to Ross's best friend, Chandler. Both Monica and Ross fell in love with their sibling's best friend. I'm not saying this to say there's some weird incest feelings between Ross and Monica but if you are close to your siblings as Monica and Ross are, it is normal to seek after and have feelings for people who are similar. As long as Rachel was Monica's best friend and she was nearby, I feel like Ross would always have feelings for her. There is a double regard he has for her, not just as a woman he loves, but as a woman who is also the best friend of someone else who he loves. He loves and cares for her in a stronger way than he would for any other woman.
I hated the Joey and Rachel relationship! It felt completely not real!
To me, it was simply because their friendship seemed real and they found somethings humorous together. But Rachel’s character (imo) would never put up with Joey’s behavior in a relationship. Just my thoughts.
Thats such a female thought.
Men dont fall in love with "who someone was in high school".
Im still in love with the same girl I met at 14... We are 40 now and she has, to an untrained eye, changed into a completely different person but I still feel the same.
Cuz the core of what makes her her is still the same, regardless of who she was then and is now and thats what I fell in love with.
Her... For being her.
Then, now or tomorrow.
How was being pregnant her lowest?
I grew up in an Anti-Ross household (even though I am the odd one out for wanting Rachel to be with Joey lol) but damn David Schwimmer is such a good actor
yeah, and looking up the cast now two decades later, he's the best looking one out of all six by far :D
It's weird, I'm usually on Ross' side when it comes to his and Rachel's relationship based arguments. But I'm usually on anyone but his side when it's not relationship stuff.
And then by season 9, when Ross is going to therapy, he actually becomes one of my favourites.
He was a great comedic actor for the show, but I hated him through it all and if Rachel were my friend I would warn her to stay away from him. Too selfish, possessive, insecure and most of all so ugly. It’s funny someone else says he was the best looking. I always had trouble watching (edited: because his character is so horrid to me) he became ugly to me. (Edited: but yes, he did age the best, and he was good in the OJ Simpson movie).
@@hangtownranger i am saying now he is the most good looking, in 2022. He aged very gracefully compared to the others.
@@hangtownranger Rachel wasnt that much better. Incredibly toxic relationship
Wait! Joey was also the most loyal. He also accepted anyone, literally anyone on their own terms and he was completely non judgemental. Those qualities are to be admired. They are very rare.
Joey was a great friend ... and what you would like to have in a friend. Concerning his loyalty and unwavering support and commitment. Even when it's not directly or equally reciprocated.
There was the time in (Vegas, I think? Fuzzy on that) and Rachel was drunk. Joey gave her the "How you doin'?" When Rachel responded positively to it, he IMMEDIATELY ordered her cut off and be watched. He could have taken advantage of her, but Joey isn't like that. It was one of the moments that endeared me to him. He was a GOOD friend.
Yep. Agree 👍😎🌱🤣💖
Right? I dont get why people say joey cheats when he doesnt, he just hooks up with attractive girls and then ghosts them and thats it. He never cheated while he was in a relationship tho (unlike ross bonnie & rachel)
@@tanhatarannumlatif4735 He did cheat on Cathy though
I think they should’ve ended it with when Rachel comes back saying “I got off the plane” they have a conversation where Ross wants to actually go with her to Paris with their daughter so that she can have that experience & progress within her career. It would’ve given that satisfaction of Rachel actually did it! She worked her way up & pursued her dreams & it all paid off in the end. WHILE ALSO showing growth & character development in ross. Not trying to repeat the same mistake as before, showing how much he truly respects Rachel & her career now & making up for the times he’s held her back before. & that’s how you have your cake & eat it too because the audience would’ve also been happy that they finally got together in the end.
I agree! Gosh I wish that's how it ended lol
Ross can't leave Ben in NY, is the same problem with Emily
@@abulnese but if Rachel did go to Paris and Ross stayed, then he wouldn’t be around Emma. Either way, one child will be in another country.
But it’s Rachel who gives up her dream so it all works out conveniently for Ross.
However, I think Ross giving up his life in New York to support Rachel’s dream and go with her to Paris would speak a lot louder that his character has grown rather than leaving it to the last minute to profess his love to her at the airport.
Fully agree, and since I'm cheesy, I say: let him be sad and mopey about her leaving, then everyone else get's fed up, and says the opening line, "so no one told you life was gonna be this way, and even claps as in to say wake up, get over it" and adds that he should deal with life being different than wha he expected and get om the plane to be with her. Yes, chesse, but c'mon Title Drop in the last episode? Perfect
It would have been really funny if Joey was in the plane with her.
Surprised you didn't talk more about Phoebe's arcs pre-Mike. Everything with her meeting her Dad, her brother, finding out who her real Mom is, carrying the triplets, that's all my favorite "dramatic" stuff from Friends.
Good call!
Probably, because, the "dramatics" of Ross & Rachel, as well as the steady life of Monica & Chandler, got to overshadow Phoebe's arc in every possible way.
Yeah that's nice, then it never goes anywhere. The effects don't matter, the new family members she finds never comes back, or just as well shouldn't have, and the triplets, none of this has a lasting impact of her or anything she does. Neither does her aunt dying off screen.
Because her arcs don’t affect the show. Like Phoebe or not she is the most disposable character in the series. Get rid of her and not too much actually changes in the dynamic.
@@filiporvik2782
It’s really unfortunate that the writers did that. I kinda wish that, instead of Mike being Phoebes happy ending, her happy ending could’ve been getting to reunite in some meaningful way with the family she had reconnected with over the years. That would have given her the family she’s always wanted and been more meaningful to the audience than…Paul Rudd. (No offense to Paul, he did a good job).
You know, while the Joey and Rachel storyline was not going to go anywhere, it did give us the opportunity to see Matt le Blanc's best acting in the whole show in my opinion, in the scene in the restaurant where he finally tells her. For a moment there, he actually acts like a mature adult who is dealing with loss... and that is really fantastic to watch. I always felt bad for Matt that he never got any really good storylines to act out and he always had this one note character, so it was really great for him to watch him be able to have something really meaty to work with for a change.
That is one of my favorite scenes from the show!! Joey is so honest there, its wholesome
David Crane and his partner Jeffrey Klarik really did Matt LeBlanc a solid when they wrote their 2011 meta-satire called "Episodes" around Matt LeBlanc (the character). He's so different from Joey in that role and is making fun of what people would expect from "Matt LeBlanc, actor who played Joey".
Ross: I wonder how many people would see Jurassic parka
Devil’s wear Prada: hold my beer
Exactly.
Not to mention--fashion/costuming is a massive part of literally every TV show/movie/live performance.
YES! Every time I hear that joke I think of The Devil Wears Prada, it was a massive success and still one of the best comedies ever.
@@MillyLou and a billion dollar industry, dinosaurs are not
Miranda Priestley was waaaay scarier than any of those velociraptors.
By the end of the show, they did Matt LeBlanc and Courtney Cox so dirty. Monica went from the cool, collected, sassy mom friend to nothing but a shrill bundle of nerves. Joey was always a bit of an airhead, but he was witty enough in the first few seasons that he could actually riff with the other friends. By season 10 he was completely devoid of braincells to the point where it wasn't funny anymore. I think the others got decent development and character arcs that mostly made sense; Rachel in particular had really strong development through the whole show. But what they did to Joey and Monica was unfair.
Its sad, she was a capable, pretty and strong woman in the beginning, then she devolved into this OCD freak that only has OCD as her defining feature. Rachel definitely came a long way compared to the dumb princess that she started out as, although I really hated her relationship with Ross, generally I hate that they keep doing the on and off and on and off bullshit like a lot of sitcoms do, it kills any love I have for the interactions between characters. Especially the "I thought we were on a break" bit, if it was a deal breaker, just fuck off, if you can forgive him for it, do it already. I'd love it more if Rachel actually went away and got with someone else or if they got together earlier and stayed together. The particular part where I hated their relationship the most was that Ross was with someone and then Rachel had to be all jealous and shit. Extremely toxic, she didn't want him, but she also didn't want anyone else to have him.
yes!! sometimes it feels like by the end some characters were just charicature of their original selves
Yes! There's not a storyline I hate more in Friends than "Joey can't speak French". I felt like the creators were insulting my intelligence there as a viewer.
I choose to believe Rachel gets off the plane but DOES NOT give up the job in Paris. She makes a call, sorts it out, and goes to Paris at a later date. Ross ultimately moves to Paris with her and gets a job at a fancy museum or a professorship. Either way, I refuse to believe she ends up like Donna from That 70s Show. Donna should've stayed on that bus!
The one with the Lesbian Wedding may have aged poorly, but we can't expect a 2022-perspective on LGBTQ issues in an episode written in 1996 (or so). Also, I always liked the subtle but powerful display of Susan's dad coming to his lesbian daughter's wedding as proudly as ever, wearing his Westpoint uniform and all.
Honestly i really liked their whole subplot because it showed lesbians in a kind of realistic way, having kids, taking care of them, just living a normal life. Which i think is nice for a sitcom of that decade. Sure some of the jokes aged badly but it’s a good storyline
Yeah,what do you want?most TH-camrs suffer from a case of presentism,they cannot for the life of them,judge something in it's time period and not put on it our modern outrage/cancel culture,same with the whole Ross "toxicity".
@@bobbyokeefe4285 I mean to be fair, Ross being a self-absorbed crybaby isn't really related to any current political or sociological issues, it was true then, it's true today and it would've been true 100 years ago lmao
@@airotkiv Perhaps...but that's besides the point,no one tried to go after the character back in the day,people got that it was just comedy without any moral judgement,now entertainment is all about virtue signalling,audiences take everything so literally without any context or distance.
@@bobbyokeefe4285 I think analyzing a show and its characters doesn't equal "going after a character". A show needs annoying characters too, not everybody can be likeable. Ross' character is obnoxious to many, but that's what makes him entertaining. Loving the show and appreciating the comedy and seeing Ross or others as flawed isn't mutually exclusive to me!
The binge model of watching doesn’t do the Ross and Rachel relation any favours. This was airing week by week before DVD box sets were a thing and you needed to build an extension if you wanted anywhere near a decent TV collection on VHS. Clip shows were still a thing because we didn’t have TH-cam yet. When you watch the relationship with back to back episodes it’s obvious how fragile it is, the issues keeping it from being stable long term.
The thing with Emily is that she didn't have to agree to get married to Ross if it was too soon. If Ross is foolish for proposing too soon, then Emily is foolish for accepting too soon. She also shouldn't have reconciled with Ross in the first place if she couldn't trust him. Emily's actions were understandable not faultless.
Emily also got remarried very, very quickly. I was always impressed by how consistent they made her character.
I think she just loved him too much
@@billmilligan7272 exactly, so it clearly wasn’t just a Ross problem. In fact, Emily was the original spontaneous one who encouraged Ross to be more like that. He might’ve taken it too far FIRST, but she caught up pretty quickly and kept that pace going after divorcing Ross.
If you recall though, she thought she trusted him way more than she actually did and seemed to realize it while she was talking with him on the phone. He asked her if she trusted him and she said no and then it was the end of it. Really she wasn't even being that unreasonable to expect him to cut an ex out of his life. The show did her so dirty by acting like she was being so horrible for wanting him to cut Rachel out of his life because they were the golden couple.
Also think about it from her side, she wanted to reconcile with him after he had spent their wedding day/night/next day begging her and insisting that it meant nothing. She loved him and decided that their marriage was worth fighting for, so she goes to the airport and sees him getting on a plane with Rachel. After that it was once again Ross pushing to reconcile with her and she finally gives in again.
Come to think of it, he seemed to push her into a lot of things because that's just how he is.
Somebody made a great video pointing out just how dirty the writers were to Emily's character.
This is great analysis but I must immensely disagree with your take on Phoebe's ending. You must look at it through the lens of someone who has been through a lot of trauma. And as someone who has, nothing would make me happier than having a stable life with a loving partner. Because of her background, it makes a lot of sense for her to want this and they showed that in a lightbulb moment when she realised she DID want to be that "soccer mum". Also, I loved her relationship with Mike. I thought they were very cute together. He never put down her quirks whilst also showing that you can't really do shit like keep dirty rats around. He's a great partner for her.
Phoebe had grown into a healthy, functioning adult with a healthy, functioning relationship, and that's all anyone who had been through what she had been through could ask for.
I agree with you, but the take on Mike being a prop was far too accurate. He felt out of place with the rest of the group. Perfect for Phoebe though. I wish they spent more time fleshing him out rather than highlighting the awkwardness in scenes with the guys.
I disagree with Ross/Carol take. Being a lesbian is not a flow, but cheating and using someone is. She used Ross, had an affair, left him for her AP, and tried to make the pregnancy and child only about her and Susan. If you take out the sexuality aspect that's a horrible person. Ross had all rights to his negative emotions and still he chose to walk his cheating ex down the aisle. He is a bigger person than me, because I wouldn't even been able to attend such wedding. And she asked his sister to cater... Actually, now that I think back to the show, I don't remember him being homophobic towards Carol and Susan at all.
I will die on the hill that the Joey and Rachel dynamic was way better than people give it credit for, and I think Ross and Rachel getting back together (and therefore the writing torpedoing Joey and Rachel’s romantic relationship very quickly after it began) only happened because of the potential audience outrage rather than something that was actually right for the characters. I just assume that Ross and Rachel broke up again a year after the finale, because I have zero confidence that they all of a sudden would work romantically together.
I agree. Joey and Rachel were actually really compatible. They both enjoyed media and fashion. They both had a similar sense of humour and intelligence, and a relaxed but dramatic nature about them. There had always been a little attraction between them that wasn't acted on. This could have been the moment Joey stepped up and Rachel started to take him seriously.
Especially with how he changed after they moved in together. He was so supportive of her becoming a mother, even when it meant he had to make personal sacrifices. He was always so supportive of her career and personal choices and interests. He praised her for these things, unlike Ross who mocked her. He unconditionally adored her, whereas Ross always wanted her to change for him and fit into his world.
I honestly think they were incredibly well suited.. and the show set it up perfectly in that moment where Rachel was pregnant and horny and Joey had been developing feelings for her and they went on that sweet friend date because Joey wanted to make her feel beautiful. But then the writers torpedoed it because they had their sights set on Ross and Rachel. Also probably didn't help that it was hard to take Joey seriously as a romantic interest since he was written as a man baby 90% of the time :(
THIS!!!!! I don't get why this is such an unpopular opinion. I thought their pairing was actually incredibly fitting and sweet, especially in contrast to her relationship with Ross. She actually shared interests and values with Joey and he respected her feelings more than Ross ever did. They brought out the best in each other in a lot of ways. It also makes sense to me that someone like Joey wouldn't be able to fall in love with a woman unless they were good friends first. It was kinda beautiful to see love grow due to them genuinely caring about each other and enjoying each other's company.
FRRRRRRRRRRR
Yes yes yes, to all 3 of you! It is so frustrating being in such a minority opinion in the fandom, but I really love Joey * Rachel, and hate how so much of their potential was wasted on Ross drama (I do love Ross too, but this couple should have been given a chance and could have a storyline outside of how it made Ross feel).
I’m of this thought too. ❤ they made a lot more sense and did good for each other.
I actually have an argument for Joey and Rachel. It all started when she was pregnant, Joey was taking care of her and they were living together. On Rachel's end, she's having needs met by Joey that Ross couldn't because he was starting a new relationship. She's vulnerable, has a nice "date" with Joey and you can see there is some chemistry there. Joey has now built Rachel up in his mind and has been idealizing them as a couple. After a while I think it became a sort of forbidden fruit kind of thing and they wanted it the more they couldn't have it. This relationship had been so built up in their minds but when it finally manifested there just wasn't enough to keep it going.
This is exactly how I felt about it, close proximity that wasn't there before as roommates sparked a curiosity as their 1 on 1 friendship grew closer
they were so much better off as friends
@SayaCeline Joey was like a brother to Rachel, and that is why it made sense for her to reject him as she did in season 8. Meaning, season 8 was totally *not* alien to the history of the show in the preceding seasons, because, we do see that Rachel often times saw Joey as her younger brother and someone she could not relate with on an emotional and physical level.
That also means, of course, it was interesting and wonderful to see in season 8 that Joey came to treat Rachel right, like a gentleman, for it finally gave his character some character growth, but it did not have to go too far. You know, that even Rachel herself now suddenly falls in love with Joey, which was just far-fetched.
Rest in Peace Matthew Perry. The one where we lost a friend. The 🌎 has lost a beautiful but tortured soul, I hope he knew how much he was loved 🕊
Someone once pointed out that all the girls have kids at one point in the show but never in a conventional way (Pheobe is a surrogate, Rachel gets accidentally pregnant and Monica adopts) because the showrunners wanted to show different ways pregnancy/motherhood could look like. Dont know if it’s real but i kinda buy it
Yes, Rachel and Joey was weird, but even more weird was the fact that after they 'broke up' the relationship was never talked about or hinted at again, they just went on as if nothing ever happened, and that really showed that the writers realised they made a mistake.
Ikr. It was smart imo. Their relationship is the cringes thing ever
@@anshitgupta1294 roey was the worse plotline in the show imo. they were so wrong for eachother, great friends but a horrible relationship pair. everytime those episodes come up i skip them because of how awkward they were
Yep. Anyone who actually likes the Rachel and Joey relationship is an idiot and living in denial about how desperate and horrible it really was.
Yep. Anyone who actually likes the Rachel and Joey relationship is an idiot and living in denial about how desperate and horrible it really was.
I disagree with the analysis of Phoebe's ending. I always identified with Phoebe, having had a similar traumatic goodbye with my mother and suffering PTSD. And while I compensate with some admittedly weird behaviour and I have a fear of settling down and a strong flight reaction when I run into problems, one of my biggest desires is to just have some normalcy. A normal family, a permanent home and reliable friends. It's also what attracted me to my partner, who comes from a healthy family, grew up in one place in a quiet area of the country with good friends.
Well-said (and I'm sorry about all you've endured). There's really no hint whatsoever that Phoebe must sacrifice her quirkiness and originality in order to marry Mike. And Mike wasn't a boring blank slate plot device to give Phoebe her happy ending, he had plenty of great weirdness and humor and fun to him as well, and they're a fantastic fit. I think it's great for Phoebe to have someone balance her out and talk her down when she takes things too far, in a way that the other Friends were always too afraid or uncomfortable. The narrator of the video (which I overall loved) seemed to think that was a good thing, that the Friends would let Phoebe "be herself" and "not care what anyone thinks" but everyone needs a little grounding sometimes, and that's what Mike offered her. Her chance at "some of the normal stuff" was really beautiful, as were her vows to Mike about finally finding that family and future. It shouldn't be short-changed just because Paul Rudd sadly wasn't introduced until Season 9 and therefore the writers needed to rush the relationship a bit. I wish he had more screentime too, but what we did get was lovely.
I totally agree with you. Not to mention that Mike loved her weirdness and all, even saying it in his vows. I think her relationship with him wouldn’t change her at all, because she’s allowed to be herself with him (being that’s one of the reasons he loves her so much ❤)
I think when not focusing on the Ross/Rachel storyline plaguing the 10 Seasons, David Schwimmer can be the funniest actor in the show. That episode with Ben Stiller, the Sandwich episode and the White Teeth episode are all hilarious. Problem is, the Ross/Rachel storyline just takes precedence, and that is infinitely less interesting.
@English Giraffe Well said. Couldn't agree more. Back in the early seasons, mostly seasons 1-3, Schwimmer was really entertaining and funny as Ross, because, Ross' relationship with Rachel was working. They were still treating each other with more respect and admiration. Rather than pity and vengeance etc. Of course the latter makes for good comedy, but nuance is important.
That includes, deciding later to push Ross through two more divorcres, including one with Rachel after Vegas. Which did both his character and that of Rachel a big disfavor, because, it felt like they were right back at square one as teenagers again, whilst they were adults already in their early 30s at the time. Not to forget, Ross hiding their marriage from Rachel, made his character seem very weird and unlikable. Poison the well etc.
No wonder as a consequence, that Schwimmer has commented on the Rachel/Ross arc, and said, he would have made it less dysfunctional and unhealthy in retrospect. That includes the falling back in love and moving on again with Rachel.
The way Schwimmer delivered *one word* made it one of the funniest lines in the whole series..
*Pivot* !!! 😂
Chandler's third dimension is his insecurity about his masculinity. This is because of his strained relationship with his paternal figure 'Charles,' who is queer. In the pilot this is expressed when he mentions he '[sometimes wishes] to be a lesbian' and then becoming ashamed because he didn't mean to say it out loud. In the pilot Chandler also mentions a dream about his mother, who is also unpredictable and extravagant. Chandler's 'normalcy' is his trauma response to having such over the top parents.
I get why they did it, but the finale made ZERO sense. *They're raising a child together* - Rachel moving to Paris was never going to be a "goodbye" between them.
I dunno look what happened to Ben lol
@@unicornL who
@@locke8412 I dunno if you're joking or serious, but that's the point. The child he had w Carol, who was raising that child w Susan.
@@unicornL Ben appeared loads of times in the series. He was just a peripheral character. He was in the Holiday Armadillo episode when he was all grown up. I don't know why people act like Ross forgot about Ben when he appears all the way through the series. Ben lives with Carol and Susan so he's obviously not going to be a permanent presence in the show.
The show is unfortunately written from Ross's perspective so what Rachel feels and whether she can keep her job and be together with Ross is never even considered by the writers.
Man, it's crazy to see such an extensive analysis and praising of Friends. Honestly, it's pretty damn refreshing in fact.
Considering the last two seasons were building up to an ending the writers could have used season ten as Ross and Rachel doing soul searching and fixing their character flaws as individuals and as romantic partners so they could come back as a couple, a healthy couple this time, in the finale and earning it. Sitcom viewers are suckers for a redemption arc and to redeem not only two characters but also the relationship that had fans so invested seems like a no brainer.
You're right. There was never an episode like the one in Scrubs where Elliott and JD have a deep heart to heart.
_"Sitcom viewers are suckers for a redemption arc and to redeem not only two characters but also the relationship that had fans so invested seems like a no brainer."_
Tell that to the producers and writers at Friends and executives at WB and NBC etc. Or whoever was ultimately responsible for the storytelling and development at Friends. For I continue to wonder what went wrong inside their brains to have messed up seasons 9 & 10 as much as they have. I mean, when you have the actors, like Jennifer Aniston and Matt LeBlanc, voicing their complain, disagreement and stating why, regarding Rachel/Joey, you don't ignore it. There is a reason why it doesn't work and won't work. Not to forget, wasting potential on something more englightening and inspirational, like Rachel and Rose doing some soul-searching and slowly but steadily start working their way back together.
I've always felt this. I really love friends, and feel that season 10 slowly fixing Ross and Rachel's problems that kept them apart would have made it even better
YES. I think the best would be if they got together after Emma instead of that stupid joey proposal
So refreshing to see a positive analysis of such a beloved show. The fans know some of the arcs is dumb, but it is genuinely good though!
Yup! We know and we’re ok with it lol
The Joey/Rachel relationship made perfect sense to me. Joey had a deep aversion to change. Rachel, on the cusp of true growth, had enough fear left that she clung to her earlier self -- and made Joey the object receptacle for those feelings. Joey in turn felt he needed to grow but had no idea how -- and made Rachel the object vehicle for his growth rather than figuring himself out. I think the relationship was as inevitable as it was utterly doomed to launch, because their needs for each other were completely incompatible. And in the last one, in spite of his career success, Joey was the only one unable to truly grow and move on, which makes him the darkest character arc for me ... but then again I think just about every friend group growing up has one member that just stopped moving pretty early.
Joey will run away when they have to make serious commitment. Also there is a Joey show where he moves away completely.
So? What's the problem with that? Should we all be sad fat geezers? With children, a spouse, a house with white fence? All boring things that LITERALLY tie you up for the rest of your days? I've NEVER understood what's the problem with not maturing.... That's for fruits and vegetables. I like GETTING OLDER, which is very different from GROWING UP. And I doubt I'll ever change since I'm 40 already. I plan to be an OLD teenager....
@@sideskroll Your life, your choice. I'm a little older than you, and as I look back at myself in my 20s and even my 30s, I think that the guy I used to be was kind of an idiot. Life has more meaning to me when I try to be all I can be. Reaching for the stars involves growing towards them. I'm my mind, failure to grow is stagnancy and a prelude to death. To me that's the opposite of boring. But you do you.
@@billmilligan7272 I was an early achiever. In my teens/early adulthood I LITERALLY was everything most kids dream of. I had a pretty "successful" rock band, acted a bit, was a skater, went out with the best chicks, had a nice motorcycle... Basically the "cool character" in a sitcom or movie. Nowadays I'm mostly a has been and I'm perfectly contempt with it to be honest. I devote 90% + of my time to working out and still get by on my looks alone. Whenever that comes to an end (and it will) I'll be ready to bite the dust. As I don't have any plans nor desire to have a family, get married.... Basically, anything "adult related". It just looks like a sad existence to be perfectly honest. I've been an "achiever" and now, a has been. I've known both sides of the coin and I can die peacefully now. (After I become fat and wrinkled that is) till then I'll keep on doing whatever I want whenever I want to and rejoice in the envy of my very much "adult friends" that are all married with children...😁👍
@@sideskroll you're talking so much about yourself on a video about Friends. If you're so satisfied and everyone is jealous of you, why are you trying to convince internet strangers about how incredible you are? Joey's issue was that he *wanted* what Chandler/Monica had and showed he wanted a committed loving relationship throughout the show but never matured enough to get there. He also failed to chose the right women for that goal (Ursula, Janine, Cecilia, Kathy, Erin, ...hell, even Rachel). So many episodes where he showed he wanted to find "the one" but hadn't yet. And its tragic to see a character consistently try to connect on a deeper level but be unable to. Which has nothing to do with whatever you're talking about with your own life and ego trip.
I never understood the Emily hatred. She was reacting very normal! She was being loved bomb by Ross the entire time, manipulating and gaslight by everyone because they wanted Ross and Rachel together. I defend Emily’s actions till this day as someone who has been in her shoes.
yeah, i think that when Ross said Rachel instead of her name in the wedding that relationship was over inmediately, it wasnt going to work after knowing that your husband still loves his ex so much.
Being concerned about his ex and her not wanting them to stay friends is understandable but completely alienating Ross from his other friends? That’s just selfish, toxic behavior. She literally tried to control his whole life because of her insecurities and should have ended the relationship way before. If you think her actions are still “normal” then I don’t know what to tell you maybe reflect on it a little bit.
@@claudiac5331 idk, if his other friends are also friends with his ex and want them together, i would feel uncomfortable of him hanging out with them all the time, especially bc ross didn't set boundaries. She didn't have insecurities out of nowhere, ross made it hard for her. And his love bombing made it hard for her to decide to simply break the relationship off, bc when they were together (only the two of them) it was good, but when his friends were around (including rachel) things got messy.
I think she was written in a way where we might have even cared for her character... but, not to be rude, I think it is entirely the fault of the actress. She played Emily in a irritating way where you do genuinely start to dislike her compared to the Rachel we know and love.
@@ponyosoultheir friends didn't want Ross and Rachel together at that point though? They specifically discouraged Rachel from going to the wedding to tell Ross how she felt, they just also weren't going to choose between their two friends for activities and gatherings because of Emily's insecurities. I can understand Emily not wanting Ross and Rachel to spend time together alone, but to expect either of them to miss out on group things? That's going overboard, Ross would eventually just alienate himself from everyone living like that
I always had the impression that chandler's dad was an irresponsible parent who would rather satiate his lust then actually take care of his son. I wouldn't say chandler is homophobic more like he hates his dad specificly because his dad was negligent.
Most of Chandlers complaints if swapped into a complaint about his dad hitting on girls/his friends moms would be gross. He only has about 3-4 complaints that are specifically about his dad being queer.
Same. I got the impression both of his parents were more interested in themselves than him, both had narcissistic traits. I enjoyed this video mostly but he missed the mark there. Chandler doesn't have to "get over" and accept his dad being abusive and self-absorbed. Transgenderism doesn't make his dad immune to being a shitty father.
I think part of the problem is more that making homophobic jokes at all is iffy. There is a bit of a trend where people who would otherwise be progressive slip into homophobic or transphobic rhetoric specifically when weaponized against people they have legitimate reason to dislike, such as midgendering someone just because they are a bad person and stuff like that. It creates situations where laughing at homophobia because 'okay' if directed at a target who is bad for unrelated reasons, rather than just focusing on those negative qualities
If someone is a narcissist, hate them and make fun of them for being a narcissist. Their bad qualities are what are deserving of mockery and ridicule. But there was a heavy focus on Chandler having a negative association with homosexuality, to the point where people thinking he was gay was a weird running joke, so he always had a bad relationships with queerness, even if not out of homophobia. It's a complicated and nuanced issue, but tbh Chandler is still one of my favorite characters and even as a gay man, I didn't find his relationship with his father offensive
@@Bmoney902 That's the same situation with Carol, their sexuality doesn't excuse them. They still ripped apart and traumatized people because they wanted to please themselves. There are much healthier ways to break up.
it’s nice to see a deep dive of Friends from someone who doesn’t simply dislike the show. that idea that you should be ashamed of enjoying Friends still seems common these days - to see someone analyse the show critically and point out the things that it does well as a comedy is so refreshing!!
phoebes wedding is probs the best thing in the whole show its so beautiful love her and that episode
@@leejones8582 I thought that was just a joke, like when a friend just pretends to be mean, I mean phoebe has been there for chandler, but is just mean to him for no reason which makes it funny
@@leejones8582 Yes! This is ignored by most people
Rip Matthew. We loved you.
I'm a gay trans man who grew up watching Friends (started at 3 years old and really haven't stopped over the last 21 years), and I grew up in a very rural area of NY where there were maybe 10 people of colour and nobody around me that was openly LGBTQ+
In that environment, the late 90's and early 00's version of representation made me understand that these people existed and could just be like "everyday people" (as in the main 6 to my child brain, lol) in the world. Looking back at it, it isn't the ideal representation of LGBT people that the late-2010s and beyond have strived for, but it was never meant to be that, it was good representation of the community for the time.
The Seinfeld episode (where they're like "not that there's anything wrong with that") often gets brought up in these types of discussions, and that's not perfect representation either, and the LGBT people are often the butt of the joke; but, Seinfeld won a GLAAD award for that episode, and tbh that's how I feel about the LGBT+ representation in Friends- it's not perfect, or ideal, especially by post-2010s standards, but it was GOOD for the time. They even had the guts to introduce an LGBT+ couple that remains for the *entire* series in Episode 1!!!!
Like I think that including LGBT+ people into being the butt of the joke *in a sitcom* is fine when every other character gets made to be the butt of the joke, and I don't understand applying modern standards to media that's literally over 15 years old.
But yeah, that's just my thoughts as one LGBT+ person who was heavily impacted by Friends as a child.
Agreed. And they were also the first lesbian wedding on TV if I remember right. People saying that Friends is homophobic either didn't watch the show or take their jokes too seriously. The serious moments with representation ARE ACTUALLY GOOD. And the jokes are that. JOKES. To make people of the time laugh. If they age good or bad is irrelevant because their objective is to make people OF THAT TIME laugh. NOT TO SEND A MESSAGE.
The Message btw, they DID SEND but in the serious moments with the wedding and with Carol and Susan. The writers knew WHEN to make the impact and make the emotions land.
@@ianesgrecia8568 agreed, Carol and Susan's relationship is probably one of the healthiest ones on the show
@@Cheesusful true😂
Exactly. What people don’t understand is that this kind of butt of joke representation paved the way for modern representation.
@@emilytretyak2534 I hundredpercent agree with you, I don’t remember him being homophobic so I was little confused by that. If people are saying that hating a specific gay person is now homophobia that’s nonsensical, if I hate somebody for burglarizing my house and I find out that they’re Jewish I’m not antisemitic I just dislike a Jewish person for trashing my house.
He could’ve had other comments that were seen as homophobic or insensitive it’s been a while since I’ve watched the show start to finish
Glad to see other people talk about how much healthier, relatable and engaging of a couple Monica and Chandler are than Ross and Rachel
Hot take: I love Emily, and I hated that her character was positioned so poorly after Ross said the wrong name at the altar.
Yep, the writers and producers did Emily's character dirty, but that of Kathy too.
My husband and I have a running joke where any time Emily says something they try to play off as crazy we both say "justified". 😂
Helen Baxendale was unavailable for season 5 so they had to cut down her role and put her in a few short scenes to write her out of the show.
I always feel the “friend zone” line gets an unfair misrepresentation. Joey says it in the The One With The Blackout, which was back in 1994 and its misogynistic meaning didn’t exist yet. It was actually the origin of the name. The joke needs to be understood in the wider concept of the episode. The 3 guys’ ineptitude/comfortableness with talking to people they fancy is being juxtaposed. Chandler is trying to act cool to impress a woman, but with each attempt, makes himself look more and more weird. Ross is being socially awkward and being too afraid to tell Rachel he likes her. Joey, in contrast, is laid back and relaxed and seems to have this massive knowledge of a world the other 2 guys don’t understand. The use of the term “friend zone” instead of “she thinks you just want to be friends” is there just to make it funny and hint at this abstracted world that Joey understands which makes so many women want to sleep with him.
EDIT: Oh God. What have I created? The comments on this are a nightmare. To clarify: Being *Friendzoned* is a misogynistic concept, used by men who think that women are vending machine that you put 'nice' chips into until sex comes out. However, when this episode came out, the 'Friendzone' was not a thing yet and had no basis in reality. It's presented as an abstract concept for comedic purposes. Joey is applying it to Ross and Rachel because Rachel could potentially like Ross in a romantic way, but Ross's actions up until this point have given her no signals that he intends to follow up his initial comment about asking her out (which she responded positively to). So now Rachel just thinks of Ross as a friend. In this situation, Ross has put himself in this zone, not Rachel.
Also the idea of the friend zone is disproven within the show anyway, not only by Rachel reciprocating Ross's feelings but also by Monica and Chandler getting together after many years of friendship
Just saying that the phrase "friend zone" has "misogynistic" meaning shows how horribly spoiled and entitled you are, how horrible a human being can be to say something like that. A man is so much in love that he can't force himself to be away from a woman, the woman uses this feeling to turn him into her obedient toy and when anyone points out how shitty that behavior is, she cries "misogyny". If a man does this same thing, he is seen as an absolutely cruel asshole. A girl tried to friendzone me once, I had enough willpower to say no and cut any contact. I was twice in a situation when a girl was in love with me, I didn't want a relationship and I could say "let's just be friends" and take all the benefits from it, but the idea seemed to me as something absolutely evil and I rejected it outright.
@@petrmaly9087 the problem here may be In somehow confusing “friend” with “obedient little toy”
@@Magic12553 Yeah, that's not a confusion, that's deliberately equating it. Friendhip can't work if one person is crazy in love with the other and the other is not.
I agree, but I think most people who criticise it are saying "this would be problematic nowadays" rather than "wow, I can't believe they let him say that!" We know it was acceptable in 1994, that's what's so fascinating
Thanks, you've manged to make me feel better about spending so many hours watching Friends back in the day. Just the once mind you.
On the ending, yes, I guess they had to get the golden couple back together, but what I've never understood is why do it that way? It must have occurred to someone in the writing team that Ross going to Paris was an option, or even a long distance relationship? And yet they went with Rachel getting off the plane. Well, I suppose at least it was her choice, but her choice to also give up a great career? That's just plain awful.
I think he could've and would've gone with her, but just as with Emily and moving to London, he couldn't leave Ben behind, which I think is extremely valid as he was only 9(?) years old at the end of the show and deserved to have his father around on a regular basis. I also wonder how different a long distance relationship would've been back then, without smartphones and video calls and being cut off in a way we aren't anymore today (plus of course there was now another child in the mix, so one of the two of them would have to miss out). I don't know if that necessarily means Rachel shouldn't have taken her dream job, but I at least don't believe there was anything wrong with Ross needing to stay, I really appreciate that in fact.
@@BobRobertsMusic absolutely right, this was a time when if you wanted to get in touch with your husband to let him know you were labor, you had to _call his beeper_ and leave a number for him to call you back. Cell phones were something the friends didn't come by until the end of the show, and this was back in the day when there was no free long distance for cell phones (I know; I worked for AT&T Wireless Long Distance at the time, and explaining why members got 2 charges--one for long distance, and another for roaming long distance--was a chore I undertook literally dozens of times a day) and calling internationally usually required the purchase of calling cards.
The problem is that the show didn't do a good enough job of displaying the fact that Ross was a dad to another kid already. Once Ben aged up to the point where he couldn't be played by a doll and the young actor was old enough to start to understand (or at least repeat) some of the risque jokes the show used, we saw less and less of Ben and the writers eventually forgot to mention him.
Ross's machinations to keep Rachel in town were as much to be a part of his baby's life as to keep Rachel there. There were episodes soon after Ben was born that showed how bummed out Ross was about missing out on all the first moments his son had because he wasn't with him all the time, and he didn't want that to happen with Emma.
Despite that, his machinations were despicable, and I was always ticked off that he didn't have the guts to sit down and TALK with Rachel about it like a grown-up. He was in his late 30s after all.
The only way he redeemed himself was by telling her to go to Paris. When he realized that it wasn't just about the money and the position title, that she wanted this badly, he told her to go and to follow her dream. In the end, he wanted her to be happy more than he wanted to keep her there, which is a sign of true and actual love.
she gave up a great career?? She had a top positions at Ralph Lauren. In Manhattan. Plus, you don't leave a daughter without father just because you want to go to Paris, jesus christ
When I was younger, I thought the shark storyline was a super self-aware nod to the "jumping the shark" cliche.
Phoebe’s “He stabbed me first!!” @27:56 is one of my favorite deliveries of any line on any show.
I recently started re-watching Friends for the first time in years, and I was thinking "Gee, I wonder if anyone on TH-cam has done a full retrospective of the entire run." Then I discovered this video on the day it came out. Great video, my friend!
It’s like he was there for you
i've been rewatching the show lately (the first time i've done it in almost eight years) and honestly for some reason, i appreciate monica and chandler's relationship even more. also felt like some character backstories (phoebe's for example) if you take out the audience's laughter they'd somewhat feel as if they'd stem from something kinda deeper than just for comedic purposes
I actually liked Janice. All thenfriends hated her but she was actually not a bad person. Yeah, she had that voice but so did the Nanny and I love her.
58:35 but it is explained. They wanted to make it seemed like it “wasnt a big deal” because it WAS so if they were to break -up it would end the friend group. This was the most accurate relationship. Because dating your friends doesn’t work out if there are any real feeling’s involved.
Right, because they had already been through this with Ross and Rachel and their breakup.
Didn’t Carol cheat on Ross with Susan? If so, then she is in the wrong. He has every right to be upset about that, and I don’t blame him for wanting to get back with her. He isn’t toxic. Insecure and jealous, yes. But not toxic. To say he’s toxic takes away from people who really are, and people we should watch out for.
Yeah Carol was "working out" with Susan and Ross was supportive of her finding a new friend. Everyone shits on Ross but Carol was his high school sweetheart. He lost his virginity to her, married her and conceived a child with her. After all this she betrayed him and her and Carol even tried to nudge him out of the picture with his own son. I'd go as far as to say Carol is evil in the early seasons. She has absolutely no regard for Ross and no respect for his role as a father. When Susan says they refer to Ross as "the sperm guy" or when they try to give Ben Susans last name I was spitting foam. It really struck a nerve with me as someone who experienced something similar with my own son.
@@jackthehat1093they met in college. It's mentioned when they started dating in the Thanksgiving episode where Chandler loses the tip of his toe by Monica. 😊
I've always said Ross & Rachel deserve each other as spoiled brats who never moved beyond it (their focus on the break being an embodiment of it). While Monica and Chandler have had to deal with their emotions and accept the unfairness of life so they are willing to work, talk, and listen to each other to create a truly healthy relationship.
I dunno. Both really seemed to mature in Seasons 9/10. Ross got therapy and Rachel was at peace with her life. I really wish they just ended the series as co parents, not lovers.
I wish that Ross had ended up with Charlie. She was absolutely the best match for him, compared to Ross’s various other partners. Why they trashed that relationship in the service of ending with Ross and Rachel getting back together, I’ll never know. The notion that partners who have virtually no interests in common except their kids make for a good longterm relationship is one of the stupidest aspects of showbiz pairing. And, I’m just going to say it: Monica belonged with Richard. The chemistry between the actors was off the charts, and afaic, Monica became a shrill shrew after that point in the show. I disliked the character, pretty much from that point on. I don’t know why, after a couple of years, sitcom characters tend to evolve into shrill screamers, but they set my teeth on edge. On Friends, Monica was by far the hardest for me to watch, after the Richard era. And if you watch the couple of episodes in which Richard appears again, you can see Courtney Cox return to Earlier Monica, a much better character.
Also, in re Monica: do any of the recent critiques of the show focus on that wretched subplot about Monica’s hair in the Barbados episodes? Because that was so racist, so offensive - as someone with “ethnic hair” who suffered years of ridicule from other girls in a very white suburb - that I couldn’t believe it when those episodes aired. “Bad” hair? Wow. Not to mention the utter nonsense of pretending that a 30-yr-old woman with that type of hair wouldn’t have known how to manage it by then. As if there were no styling products or blow dryers, no scarves, no endless streams of articles in magazines about styling that type of hair. Since I was born in NYC and grew up on Long Island, I can attest that the summer humidity there can be brutal, and girls learn how to work with it. And have, since before the 90s. Appalling.
I liked Pheobe until she started being slightly mean towards Ross and Chandler. It made me realise when I was super young that sometimes people really do change over time. It was a comforting show at times. Chandler is still my favourite character because he did alot of personal growth and eventually finding love and a complete arc. Rachel too. I think the only person who didnt do any growth was Joey, he just kept doing the same thing over and over again though it could be a good representation of people who never change. Perhaps thats where the writers were going? It was just infurating watching him in later seasons but even though he acted like a literal child, he did have a loyalty towards his friends.
I never paid much attention to Friends back in the 90s, my wife and her sister loved it. But I was in hospital this year, so I binge watched it.
I think it's revenge comedy. The Gellers are a dysfunctional family with a narcissistic Mother, Ross is the toxic golden child who can do no wrong, Monica is the scapegoat, she is maligned and blamed for everything, she is a perfectionist in the vain hope she won't be criticized . Jack Geller is the co-dependent husband and weak father. They even mention the toxic grandmother. I'm guessing the writers experienced this and crafted the story into a comedy. I'm also guessing that some family members would have watched the successful show and cringed all the way through. My favourite moment of all time is when Jack Geller gives his Porsche to Monica and Ross has a tantrum shouting, What about me? I'm guessing again, that something like this actually happened, maybe other incidents too. As this video mentions, Ross gets worse and worse, David Schwimmer plays it with relish, he got the full character brief for sure.
that just makes the friends a whole lot better in that perspective. Loved it in my youth but can't bring myself to watch it anymore. Maybe this will help me enjoy it.
Oh my God, an hour and a half? Wow. Stu, you have outdone yourself.
He’s been hanging out with Jay too much, clearly.
@@CouncilofGeeks oh man it's the Doctor Who lady
I told myself “no more watching overly long analysis videos, they just eat away my free time”
Then Stu uploads this video and I’m obligated to watch because it’s Stu
I WAS ON A BREAK!!!!!! from long analysis videos for the time being
Stubagful videos are the exception. They have to be. No matter what kinds of videos you want to stop watching or never intended to watch in the first place.
I recently watched all of Friends, and it was honestly alot better than I thought it would be. The biggest surprise about the show is how edgy it was. It's not South Park or anything, but its humor has some more bite than people gave it credit for.
EDIT: Insomnia Cafe sounds more like the title of a weird horror show than a sitcom.
Phoebe was always my favorite character on the show (I could never get myself to like Rachel as much as the show wanted me to). So much of it was Kudrow and what she could do with the material, but there are some key points to her in relation to the other characters: she is often the one to pull them away from their nonsense.
One of my favorites: when she as "Ben" pulls the plug on the conflict between Ross and Susan while Carol is in labor. She points out how lucky the baby is to have so many parents caring for it, comparing that with her own background. It is because of this that Ross and Carol name their baby Ben. Ross' child is Phoebe's namesake.
She is the one to start the group integrating again after the Ross/Rachel breakup, in the episode where Ross rescues them in the snow.
She has an interesting in-and-out affinity/conflict with Ross: the evolution/anti-evolution argument. The bagpipe. Ross' comprehension of how to overcome her fear of the bicycle. In the fantasy episode of inter-romance friends she and Ross are the couple. It's interesting to me that the two characters who might be furthest apart have strands that pull them together in ways the others can't understand.
Much as you've said here, the fixation the showrunners/writers had with Ross and Rachel, to the detriment of the final episode, was really odd. There wasn't anything good about them together as a couple? In contrast, Monica and Chandler became better characters when they got together. I think Monica, Rachel and Joey were the worst characters of the early seasons. Chandler and Phoebe carried the show for most of the first few years.
i liked Phoebe.
@@paulflint6254 Best character in the show. By a mile.
Chandler’s character arc is the the most fruitful IMO. Easily the most relatable character for most cis boys. Joey’s goofiness is exaggerated and Ross’ desperation is too sappy and tropey.
What I love about friends is that it's that...friends. So many shows out there about mainly love and romance and treating friendships as an afterthought. As an aromantic who has had friends leave me just because they entered a relationship on more than one occasion, it hurts to constantly see media acting like friendships don't matter as much as romantic relationships. (It hurts when people do that too but I'm talking about the media aspect since I'm talking about a TV show.) Friendship means as much to me as romance means to other people and I have so often felt very alone for that. Any show where the main theme is friendship, or where the main characters are like a group of friends rather than a couple, I really cling to shows like that. In this show, they even have some of the main group date each other but still manage to make it feel natural and like the other friends still matter. Why can't everyone be like that rather than acting so weird when they enter relationships? Why should friendship change just because someone got a boyfriend or girlfriend? Anyway I really love this show because I really love that it's about a group of friends.
I've heard of people thinking it's problematic but I don't think I'm seeing whatever is problematic about it. What I do know is it's a very comforting show for someone like me.
You can thank the show living single for this show which stole its concept while airing at the same time.
@@cherryrue89 I will have to check that show out then. Thanks for telling me.
I feel so depressed finishing this amazing show. I started It in jan. this year and I also met this girl that was a big fan of the show aswell. And so, I've watched It everyday till today. I loved It!! She would always compare us to Chandler and Monica and I didn't quite understand until the London episode came in. Now that girl is my girlfriend and It just already makes me nostalgic for all the memories this show has made for us. Can't tell you how sad I feel now, without getting to have more of the experiences with these characters that helped me smile in life over and over again even tho that seemed impossible. I'll be there for you "Friends", cuz you're there for me too ♥️
If a girl told me we were Chandler and Monica, I would marry her on the spot
I have to disagree with people who say that the Friends characters are horrible people. I think they are absolutely amazing, precisely because collectovely they have pretty much every negative trait a persona can have. The magic (both in the writing ans the casting) is that you love them in spite of that and that makes them feel lile real people. Let's be honest, every single person in our lives, from our parents to our friends, significant others, coworkers and so on have stuff we don't like about them
By the time season 10 started Rachel has already achieved her dream. She made it into fashion, she became independent, she became a self-made woman. Her arc is done. While going to paris would elevate her career, i would argue her career is already elevated as is and that Paris is more of a luxary then anything extordinary.
Idk I think Susan and Carol were pretty horrible to Ross, specifically in the beginning of the show. Idk where they got off trying to give Ben the last name of some random girl that the mom just started dating. Wouldn't matter if they were gay or straight, that's super cold.
Darling, if that is what you think is the worse, just imagine the lesbian couples that are forcing their children to transgender.
Also, I don't really think it's just 'some girl she just start dating''. Let's give some credit to Carol too. She wouldn't give everything on just a whim
@@ianesgrecia8568 the lesbian couples that are WHAT??? girl shut up LMFAOOO
@@ianesgrecia8568 Bruh you're hella weird for that that has nothing to do with what I was talking about
She wasn't just some girl the mom started dating. We see in the college flashback, that they had known each other since before Ross and her even got engaged.
@@kyleellis1825 that is wrong, in the episode where Ross think Emily will become a lesbian, he say that "when Susan met Carol" implying that she met Susan while being married to Ross
It is crazy how much people don't like Emily. Considering everything laid out, I can't blame her for being as Furious and embarrassed as she was.
Emily’s feelings were completely valid in my opinion. If I were in her shoes I’d feel the same way.
Sometimes, during my walks, I'll remember random Friends quotes and I'll start laughing on my own. And that's why I'll always love the show (Not really, that's just one reason, but it is a reason). I simply cannot be, nor want to be, objective about how "good" it is. That's just me.
Monica and Chandler are the superior couple, if only because they aren't spiteful to each other and don't actively disrespect one another's work.
Ross and Rachel was so stretched out that they had to basically break it beyond repair in order to keep it from committing to either permanent breakup or eventually getting back together. And honestly by the end of the show I kind of wanted both to just find someone else but no, they had to force a kid in there to try and anchor them firmly in a potentially toxic relationship. Even though that literally did not work with Ross and Carol.
Also a tiny, tiny tiny defense of Ross and the whole Carol situation. Yeah he exhibits some signs of "funny" homophobia that comes with the territory of a show made in the 90s and early 2000s, which is written from the perspective that bisexuality just does not exist, and thus they ultimately frame a lot of this in a rather narrow minded way. And seeing as all his friends seem to basically think and state their opinions along the lines of "People cannot be bisexual, so Carol leaving you means you somehow pushed her into being gay, and thus implying you are a failure as a man", you can see why it'd be a sensitive subject for him.
The show even flat out has one of his friends tell him that he "pushed" Carol over the edge to being a lesbian. Which is not only super dismissive of gay people, super super dismissive of bisexuals (as it pretends they don't even exist) and it also implies someone finding out their sexuality is somehow the other person's "fault", and that they are a failure as a result of that happening, which is just......so messed up.
I gotta say what I've always say whenever I watch all of these : every characters hair starts out amazing and gets worse throughout the series. The boys get choppy too short hair and the girls all get flatter straighter hair whereas the only ones hair that starts out shit then becomes gorgeous was Ross my least favourite character I find a bit creepy but mum said he has a look that defines sexy (she used to tell me that sex was a specific look and not necessarily just good looking or attractive. I didn't get that with Ross. Just that he's a bit dorky and cringe at times. That being said the times when he acted more responsible and dominant he was more attractive rather than slobbering over Rachel like a disgusting simp )
Welcome to the late 90s and early 00s regarding the hair.😂
If you like the subtle darker undercurrent in Friends, you should really check out It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia. While that show is blatant satirical black comedy, there is genuine depth and thought put into the characters and world-building. It takes the “laughing at bad/stupid people doing bad/stupid things” to the extreme, which ultimately makes it so satisfying when we are rewarded with rich and subtle character work exploring all sorts of traumas and disorders. Highly recommend it if you haven’t seen it- as somebody with a black sense of humour, I think you’ll love it. Just try to stick with it through a few rough early episodes. Great, thoughtful analysis btw :)
Yeah I was like "This guy absolutely needs to watch that"
IASIP is possibly the greatest sitcom ever made the characters are fucking hilariously awful but have incredible depth and the satire/social commentary is top notch
I agree so much with how the Rachel/Ross series ending should have ended. I have hated forever how she once again sacrificed her career desires for a guy who literally would never. And we've seen Ross refuse to do a career move/change in canon with someone else: Emily. Like yeah, the argument of Ben is there, but Ben gets forgotten by like, what, s6? S7? Ross could have been doing a back-n-forth life there... but won't. So we can be like 99% sure if demanded by Rachel, he'd refuse her too. Ugh. The one-sided-ness of R&R with things like that just makes me more mad every time I rewatch Friends lol
Ben wasn't so much forgotten as it was the showrunners didn't want to work with too many child actors, especially when they had a recurring baby "actor". To write off Ross' attachment to his own Son just because they didn't have Ben on camera, kind of sounds like you're trying to devalue Ross' agency in this.
It's like when people say "Ben is only in like 6 episodes, you telling me Ross only sees his son 6 times in 10 years?", it just means they only wrote so many comedic situations for the character and you have to assume he sees his son a lot off camera (much like how we have to assume Phoebe saw her birth mother more off camera)
There's another comment on this video that lays it out better, but Racheal's life is not just about her anymore, it's also about her daughter.
LOL what about the time Rachel was HURT and made Ross stay when he was supposed to do an interview with the discovery channel
@@sofiatakahashi5769 dude are you dumb or stupid lmao. He didn't tell Rachel he had that interview until later. I MEAN. I fucking haven't rewatched in a little bit, but I sure that's the case. So. No lmao. She didn't "manipulate" him out of a career thing or whatever it is you're trying to imply.
It's the biggest thing I'm mad about regarding Friends as well. Imagine if Rachel actually went for Paris... I actually would have preferred that and I think that would have carried a whole lot more emotional weight that the actual finale already does (I still fairly like it, but you get it).
They played it safe for the fans by making Ross and Rachel "endgame" and making Rachel stay. It was a "happy ending" really unearned on his part, and an ending that really robbed her of something better for herself.
@@alexoceanmeow take ur aggression somewhere lmao Rachel was way more manipulative than ross.
Monica is the mom friend because she was never given the emotional support of a mom, and is projecting that onto those around her. Well, no wonder I relate to Monica the most. Fuck.
This has been amazing! Friends will always be my comfort show, it came out when I was the same age and my friend group was my family. We broke away from our parents and drew together to create our own family and those years were golden… even when they were crap. Eventually we split off into our own families but those years make up an era that Friends will always represent to me.
Honestly, I haven't thought about Friends in so long and this deep dive really did help me remember how messed up it gets sometimes
Ihaven't watched it all the way through in years, but I remember loving Racehl and Joey - it felt like a really sweet, kind and safe relationship
If you forget Joey is a playboy.
On the topic of Ross, it's almost like people we like make mistakes. They all make mistakes. Rachel was wrong with the break. She said, "A break from us..." and then brands him as a cheater. Rachel went to England to sabotage Ross' wedding... Chandler was ashamed of his father. Joey used women. Phoebe enjoyed making people uncomfortable and sowing discord...Joey did this too. Monika is the only one I can't thing of ever being intentionally mean. Ross gets singled out because he was uncomfortable with homosexuality...no wonder...he was used by a homosexual and that impacts someone.
Monica definitely was intentionally mean sometimes, she literally said she had a right to control Ross just because they’re siblings lol
I watched Friends in real airing time. I can put on Friends, do 10 things, sit down for snack, and know exactly what’s gone on, what’s going on, and what will go on. I had at least 12 pieces of clothing that Joey wore, J Crew was big back then. Your analysis of the whole series is brilliant. Such great guest stars, Brooke Shields, my personal favorite, Christina Applegate, Tom Selleck, with and without mustache, Marlo, Teri Garr, John Lovitz, Morgan Fairchild, ok, now I’m just naming all of them. And the greatest recurring character ever, Maggie Wheeler. I had just moved from NYC when friends started, so it was an old, comforting friend, that just was. The Apothecary Table from Yor. Pottery Barn dishes. And yes, poor Paul Rudd. I liked David better. Any hoo, any beloved series ends kinda poorly, except Newhart, absolutely brilliant, and Mary Tyler Moore. My only issue with Kathleen Turner as Chandlers dad, hilarious, true, but in my mind, Chandlers dad was gay, and a drag performer, and not transgendered. I wish it would have been Harvey Fierstein instead. And that Joey spin off, horrible, nothing could have saved that. All in all, it was, we loved it, it brings back a simpler time. I only recently watched the Reunion show. It was fun, minus James Cordon, arsehole. HeeHee. And they should have had more of Dr Geller towards the later seasons. Once again, brilliant, and I loved the stick figure drawings. Cheers!
Only 5 minutes in, but the reason Phoebe is a more complete character is that she is the twin of a character developed on Mad About You. At this point I think the suggestion was that it is the same character. So, Lisa Kudrow had been playing this role for a few years and had already developed her back story.
If you want a low hanging fruit of sitcoms to bash, I recommend reviewing anything by Dan Schneider. Dan Schneider made sitcoms for Nickelodeon and former iCarly star Jennette Mccurdy is publishing a book called I'm Glad My Mom Died August 9th 2022 that is going to revile a lot of terrible shit about Dan Schneider and Nickelodeon.
I think modern audiences want more of a It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia approach where the characters are punished for their actions and end up leading shitty lives for their bad choices
"You can't just end a series by revealing that a key character is pregnant and not tell us who the father is"
Happened in Gilmore Girls 😓
That was only the mini revival series for it that ended that way, specifically to leave the door open for another revival...also the creative team confirmed it's Logan 😅
I really enjoyed your in depth analysis of this show. Love it or not, you cannot deny it is a significant piece of recent culture. Well done. Excellent effort and an overdue deconstruction. Thank you ☺️
After a long week at work I come home to this! Thank you so much for your hard work Stu! I will be able to unwind with this!
The fact people watches and discusses it today, it makes it one of the best piece of art and most of it's situations still makes it actual today.
When Ross says "Fine by me!" in The One Where Ross is Fine is one of the greatest deliveries of a line ever. It was so hilarious!
Thank you for this video! As a massive friends fan who watches episodes on the daily, it’s great to see someone analysing the show and going a bit more in depth. It made me realise a lot of new things that will make watching the show a little more meaningful for me from now on :)
Especially the way you explained Monica and chandler’s relationship and why they so desperately wanted to keep it a secret - finally I understand the reasons! That was always one of the question marks in the show for me before
16:00 it’s called The Devil Wears Prada and everyone loved it Ross. You just had to wait a few more years 😂😂
Days of Our Lives is a lot of things, but medical soap opera? !? Also, Scrubs had a great finale as long as you accept the manta that season 9 never happened, or was really a bad spin-off. Season 9 is to Scrubs as the two seasons of Joey was to Friends or AfterMASH is to MASH.
The amount of times I wanted to scream JOEY YOU HAVE BEEN IN LOVE BEFORE is just painfull. Espiecally because the pregnancy by the end really made Rachel shine as an indppendant and mature person overall so what was there for her to gain from being somones first love? And what was there for joey to gain IF HE DID THAT 5 SEASONS AGO?
If you want a show with a compelling dysfunctional romantic subplot, I recommend Better Call Saul. Kim and Jimmy relationship is able to have a balance of making each other happy while also being toxic for each other. Farscape & Avatar the Last Air Bender also have fantastic romantic subplots with its main characters. I also recommend the show Monk for being a fantastic comedy, a fantastic detective show, and being fantastic at portraying the grim emotions of losing the love of your life.
This is so good! Thank you for putting so much hard work into this analysis. It's unlike any other analysis of friends that I've ever listened to or read.
Yes, Monica and Chandler are relationship goals
Really fantastic analysis, one of your best videos for sure. I love seeing you talk so passionately about the characters, arcs and how the show sometimes fucked things up but other times did stuff right
To be honest ross is just better when he's single
As much as the show likes to depict its protagonists as cautionary tales for different types of behaviour, there is a feeling some are treated more leniently than others. Specifically Rachel. She’s the one the show has as the success story, rising from the bottom to reach her dreams by her own effort rather than buying her way straight to the top with her daddy’s money, yet the actual narrative doesn’t quite support this. She makes dodgy relationship decisions that if one of the others, Ross especially, would get called out for. About season 7 iirc she hires Tag, a younger man, as her assistant specifically because she’s attracted to him and they soon start a relationship which ends because the age gap can’t be ignored. If Ross did this he would be burned in the fires of hatred from every single viewer. Additionally this leads to a very badly aged piece of dialogue when Gavin is introduced. He challenges Rachel to say Tag’s last name. She has to admit she doesn’t know it, and when Gavin provides it she quips he must have been in the relationship with Tag. Laugh track. Again, if this were Joey or Ross, the scene would have ended differently.
The final episode’s conclusion to the Ross and Rachel relationship is another misjudged one by present day commentators. It’s often said Rachel should have stayed on the plane because Ross dragged her down. This ignores the context, that Rachel still had a job in New York and was ready to move herself and her toddler daughter to another continent away from Emma’s father and any existing support structure without even talking to Ross about it. The show was using this as a career woman move, but ignored the parent aspect to the character.
not to mention the amount of shit phoebe gets away with, she's low-key the most egotistical, violent and judgemental character in the series.
Ross had a whole relationship with one of his students what do you mean 😂
@@CL-jw4ei Hadn’t Elizabeth already finished his class by the time they dated?
@@jbcatz5 She did, but it was still a teacher-student relationship that was banned by the university with good reason. She's 12 years younger than Ross. She's what, 19/20 to Ross's 31/32. I would say Ross and Rachel suck at the same level with these two relationships. Rachel was Tag's boss, while Ross got himself a girl who wasn't even allowed to drink legally.
@@bluegreen5377 At least he knew Elizabeth’s surname and didn’t make any gay jokes about it.
Great video. I always liked The Last One as it parallels much of their relationship. Mark being the catalyst for their break up as well as them getting back together. The airport setting much like the end of season 1 where Rachel sees him with Juley. I also like how this time Rachel prioritises her love over her career this time. The only thing I find weird about the episode is how bizzare that Ross is cool with his kid moving to Paris🤣
I don't think Chandler's dad is trans, I think he's just a crossdresser.
The creator SAID she was supposed to be trans later on and apologized for the way it was handled.
@@elijahfordsidioticvarietys8770 I didn't know that, and it does kinda change things, but considering death of the author, and what's actually in the show, I still interpret the character as a transvestite more than transsexual. Helena Handbasket screams stage name, the character works at a gay burlesque show, never corrects anyone's use of pronouns or old names. And sure, that might have been less of a thing then, and the character does seem the sort not to mind that sort of thing. Ultimately, I can see it both ways, but even knowing the intention, I stand by my interpretation.
@@vulpinedeity3379 "Transvestite" and "transsexual" are words that aren't used by people familiar and okay with these concepts. Just thought I'd tell you in case you care. "Drag queen"/"cross dresser" and "transgender" are the words to use, if I understand correctly what you were saying.
@@vulpinedeity3379 Fully agreed. I don't care about "Word of God" confirmations or interpretations and vastly prefer to leave things up to the audience. I also agree with your view in this specific case, that Chandler's father just seems to take his drag persona to an extreme, as there is never an indication that he identifies as a woman or has changed his name or pronouns. Simply a very flamboyant gay man who cross-dresses. But I understand the modern-day trans comparisons, those are fair enough. But the character doesn't give much indication aside from his attire, which really isn't strong enough evidence.
@@Wawagirl17 art is 50% what the creator intends and 50% what the audience gets out of it. They may have intended for Helena to be interpreted one way. But the larger viewing audience has taken Helena to be a gay dragqueen based on what the show provided.
I've never watched more than like twenty episodes of friends with my mom, but you asked for a trans person's opinion so I watched the one with chandler's father so I could share my thoughts.
I think I was expecting it to be worse than it was. Chandler's father is very nice and Chandler is portrayed as being reasonably embarrassed by his dad, even if it is Chandler's environment and his own biases that lead to his embarrassment. I wouldn't say I was offended by it as the dad is not transgender but it still doesn't feel entirely not mean-spirited with the portrayal of the drag queens and the gay men.
- a trans woman
I would also recommend watching the wedding episode to get a full picture, there's more of an implication that chandlers "father" is transgender
Also to be clear, drag queens ARE NOT the same as 'transgender'. There are men that like to drag and still be very much heterosexual or even be a man for the rest of their time.
I was just glad they didn't make Charlies an obnocious villan or something. For all his faults, he still loved his son.
A Moo point actually makes sense when you think about it 🐮
The morning after is one of my favourite episodes atm, its weirdly comforting
Didn’t think i’d watch all of this through in one sitting: fantastic work man
Ross and Rachel is a toxic relationship, not romantic. There I said it! 🎉
Agree
It's a relationship between imperfect people. Who is perfect enough to not be "toxic"?
@@oliverford5367 I see and validate this point. However I feel Rachel should have left his toxicity alone. Just my opinion. I don’t think we don’t have flaws but jealousy, control, and obsession is tooooooo toxic for me
@@starlaminde8436 Maybe you've been luckier than me. My experience is that it's not possible to find someone who cares about you but at the same time isn't jealous. If you have then great!
@@oliverford5367 being jealous isn’t toxic unless it’s extreme jealousy that also makes the person possessive and controlling. Everyone experiences jealousy even myself…it’s what I do about it that is healthy or unhealthy. My husband and I trust each other even after 25 years I am my own person and vice versa so we rarely find ourselves acting upon the jealousy issues. So yeah I’m lucky but we work at it also we continue therapy and go to marriage retreats once a year…to help keep guiding us in the right direction. I put my spouse in the same place I put myself …I love both of us. I don’t intentionally hurt or distrust those I love as Ross character did .
1:25 I suspect one reason for the reevaluation of Friends is that it began streaming at the start of 2015, less than a year after the disappointing, underwhelming, and just plain awful finale of How I Met Your Mother. The suckiness of that finale took the wind out of the sales of most HIMYM fans who'd been claiming it was so completely superior to Friends. And I'm even saying this as a former HIMYM fan (emphasis on "former") who'd never even watched Friends at the time. The sudden availability of a long-running sitcom that at the very least had a finale that didn't suck would've done a lot to help increase appreciation for the show as a whole.