Hey everyone. Next week's video is going to be releasing on Sunday (at the usual timeslot) because I'll be busy getting drunk Saturday night. Hopefully y'all can still make it.
Its safe to say Kentares was heavily inspired by the real life atrocity of the Nanjing Massacre. Appropriate since the Combine are based on Imperial Japan.
I hadn't thought about the connection before but it's a fairly obvious parallel in hindsight. I actually don't know much about the real life event, beyond some of the details from the first few days. Dan Carlin had a superb series on Imperial Japan that discussed at length the ruthlessness with which they treated the Chinese in that era, but I think a lot of the discussion around Nanjing regarded it's modern day controversy and less so the actual slaughter. But then that was like a 30-hour podcast so I'm probably forgetting a lot.
@@m4r00123 The Japanese honor system was largely for royals, but even then it was convenient at best. Japanese history is full of atrocities on their own people, so it is no surprise that during the second World War that that same brutality would continue.
I didnt think I would ever find an IP to rival 40k, but here we are! I just discovered Battletech through Mechwarrior 5, so this channel and Black Pants Legion have been amazing :)
Welcome to the community mate, pull up your favourite mech, crack open a beer and sit back and enjoy the warcrimes. But overall glad to have you here and hope you stick around and enjoy.
I never realized just how close to winning Kurita had come. Makes me wonder if this was the impetus for Davion focusing so much on training its troops from this point forward.
There's definitely an aspect of "never again" about the way the AFFS transformed into the premier power in the Inner Sphere, at least until it happens again later on in the timeline.
I see that now too. The drive to New avalon was deep. Thus ilclan Era hijinks come to life. But didn't the Davion Civil War pre star league damage a lot of worlds in the crucial March? Was castle Brian strategy also copied my great houses? Thus better home defenses close to capitals.
Ironically, the Massacre of Kentares probably saved the Fed Suns, as it showed them they had to win no matter the cost. With one order, Jinjiro lost them the war.
It galvanised the Federated Suns when they were facing an imminent defeat, but it also shocked the Kuritans into immobility. They lost all cohesion at the front, and they were a long way from home.
@@SvenVanDerPlank Also the local ComStar precentor deciding to publicize it showed Blake and Toyama another way they could pull everyone's strings for the next few centuries.
The fact that the massacre used only conventional weapons, and the ability of people to see it happening, is something people probably only now realise the psychological effect of when compared to the vague notion of a number that's beyond human comprehension. This weekend being a perfect example of this in the real world, though multiple conflicts over the past decade have managed to see similar effect due to the existence of social media which all had a more emotional impact on people then things within living memory of larger scale, such as the Congo civil war.
As a true son of House Davion, all that can be said is “Remember Kentares”. Tho to any loyal davion, we all know what Kentares truly means, and that big nice red blob is about to be driven in hard and the kuritan casualty numbers are going to sky rocket massively. But keep up the good work mate, can’t wait for you to have this series over so I can watch it through as 1 big blob but also stream it with my friends. And hopefully with the rising star of the Battletech universe, hopefully a few up and coming TH-camrs and vtubers might be pointed in the direction of yours and Tex’s vids and we can see a new era of Battletech reactions to rival 40k ones. And while 40k one’s can have their “dramatic moments” just the human nature and feel of Battletech just leaves something completely different feeling in your heart after you watch these - especially when they are excellently voice acted too.
Minor note, the talon Sgt that was dispatched to give the Coordinator that news. I hope he prevented that cowardly aide from having a second, or took up that duty and was derelict in beheading him. Kudos to the coordinator for being merciful to that enlisted man.
IIRC it was the latter. Jinjiro personally took on the role of second and made a botched job by decapitating Sorai fully instead of leaving enough skin to keep his head attached to the body. Whether the botching was on purpose or not is known only to Jinjiro himself.
Ironic that the events of Kentares IV had the opposite effect that House Kurita wanted. Instead of further demoralizing House Davion, it spurred them on to kick House Kurita back to (almost) pre-war borders. It also serves as an interesting formation of a future Merc unit; the Ever Free. One of the Kuritian officers who refused orders wasn't outright executed, but sent to a convict regiment where he met his wife and the two of them would then defect to House Davion.
Love that you added episode numbers to them. Helps keep the order for rewatching and/or searching for specific info within. But would it be possible, when talking about planets on the strategic map, that you do a highlight of the names? So when you are talking about Tikonov, for instance, we don't have to scan the entire map section? A highlighted target(s) can help draw the viewer into where the OPFOR is going and movement of the regiment banners, from where the came, illustrates scope of the campaign, as it were. It is a minor thing, but with the map so huge, it could help in seeing the scope or movements of each house/unit
Thank you for the suggestion, it's a very good one. I will look at making that change. I do use crosshairs regularly in the videos but it's usually to point out a planet when I don't know the specific unit involved in the attack (and thus, no regimental icon moving). I think what's happening is that I've spent so many hundreds of hours looking at these maps on my end that I've developed a horrifying ability to point to where these places are without even having to look. So when I say, "they went to Tikonov," that takes me about 0.1 seconds to locate. However, my mistake is forgetting that nobody but the super nerds like me have that knowledge.
It's not horrifying, it's simple familiarity. England isn't terribly large, but as an American I'd be hard pressed to be able to point out where London is located. Yet I can point out the locations of several major cities in the US, a far larger geographic region. It's simple familiarity with the subject matter. Nothing horrific about it at all.
You will have my interest to the end of this series and beyond. Your videos are always so entertaining, and feel like a real life documentary of these events. Keep up the great work, and, as a Fed Suns fan, “Remember Kentares!”
I feel a proper TV series covering the history of the Battletech universe with the greatest of respect towards the lore would be absolutely amazing... but I would also be left crying/enraged/depressed after every episode.
I suspect any TV show that got made would leave BT fans crying/enraged/depressed, but probably not because of respect to the lore, but lore inaccuracy 😂
@@SvenVanDerPlank Considering the current track record of media industry and how often it plays fast and loose with any creative source materials... I must reluctantly agree with your assessment.
I'm continually surprised myself to learn just how deep the rabbit hole goes. Kind of madness that a relatively obscure sci-fi universe has more written about it than pretty much any more popular modern series. Only the juggernauts like Star Trek and Star Wars have a wider range of sources.
Noticed you doing color swap when territories change hands - I really like this! I think if I remember right very early on you said in a comment it was probably not worth doing but I feel it works really well and I'm glad to see you changed your mind!
I've been doing that throughout this entire series. It was always my intention to do so, that's why I made my own maps so I could more easily reflect the changes on screen.
@@SvenVanDerPlank Ahh OK, I think maybe in the very first few episodes on BattleTech history map swaps didn't happen? Maybe I'm misremember but that's what I meant, comment included. Great series anyway!
That unit and insignia originates in a 1988 sourcebook. Obviously LotR was a very widely known series of books, especially among the kind of nerd who plays tabletop games, but I don't think it stood out nearly as much back then as it does now in the 21st century.
I had no idea. I already knew I didn't root for any of the successor states, but I hadn't been given a reason to hate a specific one as much as Kurita deserves. Its a symptom of this being a realistic setting, there are no good guys, but there are certainly worse guys.
I been a BT fan all the way back when the cartoon 1st came out. I am really happy to see how it all begins. Reading it without a map kinda does not show the whole picture. Your videos do an excellent job of showing it. Keep up the good job.
Thank you, I will. I'd definitely does help you picture events more clearly when you see them unfold on a map. It also lets me see who was referencing a map when they wrote their sourcebooks, and who wasn't, lol.
Man... And I though how the combine screw one of their own over when learning about the marauder 2 and the wolf's dragoons history was bad enough of an dishonorable display. Not going to be surprised if the fed sun guys starts to just start raining nukes and moving on in the next episode for the blood letting carried out.
The Kuritans have one more year of gaining territory before word of the massacre on Kentares spreads through the ranks like a virus and brings the campaign to a crashing halt. The shot that kills Minoru is a turning point in the history between the two realms.
Great job as always! I think it is good you point out why it was such a changer in the war. The fact it was so personal in a war that was usually less personal.
It's a weird situation where the nature of the massacre coupled with the fact it was a turning point in the war means it has far more longevity in the public consciousness than the Exterminatus of several planets with populations in the billions.
I think Kentares IV sticks out in the First Succession War because those others at least were not trying to kill civilians, it was just an unintended side-effect. Steiner may have nuked an entire planet but at least their goal was to deny Kurita the factories on the surface. When Jinjiro ordered the civilian population exterminated all he was doing was venting his own frustration and even undermined his own war effort.
Well, I'd say that's a very charitable view of the general Succession War mindset. As our humble narrator pointed out several times up to this point, it was a very common attitude to grab what you can, and blow up everything else to deny your opponents any edge. I'd say that glassing entire civilisations can hardly be considered an "unintended side-effect". It's simply easier to push a button and annihilate a planet than to mobilize ground forces for a lengthy and costly campaign. It's business, nothing more.
@@monkeybusiness673 Except you can't say 'It's business, nothing more' about Kentares IV. How was it supposed to benefit the Draconis offensive? It hurt the offensive, even ignoring moral because troops and supplies have to be diverted from the front lines to carry it out.
@@spectre111 Well, yes. Which is precisely why it sticks out so much. Everybody else could point at the DC and say "That was really messed up, mate!", all the while ignoring their own atrocities which they willingly and without second thought accepted as "That's just how it works!" My point was that (in your example) Steiner denying Kurita the factories was the goal and nuking civilians in the process was just shrugged off, which imho is not really any better than Kentares IV.
@@monkeybusiness673 I won't argue which is better or worse because it would be too marginal anyway. I think that is why Kentares IV stands out in BT despite other incidents. Unlike the others there is just no defense you could offer for it.
At least glassing major population centers from orbit was a fast demise. Waiting for maniacs with swords and small arms is far more drawn out suffering.
In the face of such nightmares, I often try to look to the helpers. I wonder if any of the tragically small number of Kuritans who defied Jinjiro managed to save some precious few lives.
One example is from the Legacy (Anthology), specifically the short story titled "Swords of Light and Darkness" in which a Kuritan Tai-i struggles with his ideals of honor and duty as he hides a local Kentaran girl from his superiors. It isn't clear whether he was successful, but it highlights the inner conflict that was brought up with the file-and-rank Kuritans.
I may be combining two different short stories, but I think there was another story set during the Chain gang missions on the run-up to the 2ndSW (confusingly written before the Legacy anthology) that continues his story. He's haunted by the ghost of a girl he killed (or allowed to be killed) on Kentares.
A great day made even better with another BattleTech lore video! I finally got my PS5 after 2 years of life getting in the way, so watching this while it's setting up is a major win. Hope you're doing well today!
In what book is it written that a Sargent in the Davion military assassinated Minoru Kurita? I have read the original house Kurita book multiple times and never came across that information?
I don't actually know this era of the story, so this is particularly interesting to hear. If there's any justice, Jinjiro will be assassinated by his own military for honor's sake. Knowing Battletech, I'm expecting Jinjiro to live to a ripe old age and die peacefully in his sleep.😕
It's interesting how different dispassionate slaughter and personalized massacres are from an instinctive moral perspective. It's horrible to wipe cities or planets off the map, but such is war. You can write it off as lamentable collateral damage. It's unforgivable to industrialize the slaughter of civilians with the actual goal being the utter annihilation of an entire population, one victim at a time. It's why the firebombing of Dresden and the nuclear destruction of Hiroshima and Nagasaki are so much less offensive than the death camps of Germany. It's why the mass slaughter of tens or even hundreds of millions under communism doesn't get the same visceral reaction as the targeted murders of the Holocaust, the Greek/Armenian Genocides, and other ethnic cleansings and genocidal campaigns even though the absolute number of victims pales in comparison. There's something especially heinous in the deliberate and personal killing of innocents as a goal in and of itself rather than as an incidental by-product of a socio-economic policy or strategy of war.
So by your account the Capellan Confederation is a faction that not became a primary victim of unprovoked agression on par with the Hegemony but also commited the least amount of war crimes.
Welcome to the history of Battletech. Suprisingly House Liao is actually the least aggressive Great House, and the least likely to betray their employees with occasional exceptions. The Exceptions become infamous.
The Capellans had their fair share of warcrimes. None that I can think of reached the multi-million mark though, so perhaps less so than the others. But they definitely deployed WMDs against both Davion and Marik (don't know about Kurita and there's no known attacks on Steiner) and threatened several Terran Hegemony worlds with Exterminatus unless they swore fealty.
No, not really. In fact the largest task force the Capellans would assemble during the war was part of the infamous "Devlin Solution" and existed explicitly for exterminating Marik cities. Their campaign against the Davions was decidedly more reserved, but that was largely because of one guy, who will be one of the focus points in the next episode. But the Chesterton Liberation Battalion had already set off a tactical nuke on Demeter back in 2760, so they're not really any better than anyone else.
Yes, the next episode covers (among other things) the response to the Kentares Massacre, including the Eridani Light Horse's decision to depart the Combine.
@@SvenVanDerPlankWhy would they sign up with the Dragon in the first place eludes me. All they wanted was to protect the Rasalhague people since the SLDF left them to die in the Succession Wars.
They never did. The 3rdRCT was based on the Combine since before the Star League Civil War. After the High Council sent everyone home at the conclusion of the conflict, they returned to their base on Trondheim. The DC allowed them to remain on the condition that they help repel any "pirate" activity in the region. They continually rejected offers by the DC to hire on as mercenaries.
@@SvenVanDerPlank I thought the whole Sendai situation started when ELH broke the employment contract due to the Kentares massacre, and the planetary governor took their families hostage to make them stay. And this kicked off a lot of mercs leaving Kurita since now they knew Kurita would kill every last one of them rather than have them potentially work for their rivals.
Not quite. I'll talk about it in the next video. The governor did take their families hostage but there was no contract. Just a case of "if I can't have you, no one can."
So, basically the First Succession war was most if not all the warships in the Inner Sphere going "MUTAL DESTRUCTION" on each other... 20:56 And thus began the Kentares massacre... One of the most if not THE most infamous massmurder in Battletech history... No wonder the hatred. Of course whatever anti-asian hatred from Fed Suns and Lyrans is nothing compared the the utter loathing the Rasalhagians have for Japanese... While Liao have this tendency to go insane Kurita has a tendency to go full on genocidal. Steiner are arrogant and stupid. Davion are like "Hey look at me!" Can be as devious as their English ancestors. And Marik is just "Where the hell did I put my warships?"...
I think the Kentares Massacre is a bit like that Stalin commentary: "a single death is a tragedy, a million deaths are a statistic” It certainly was a good propaganda/morale boost for Davion. Millions died on Kentares executed yea, it is horrible... but billions died on the rest of the Inner Sphere by the hands of the other militaries and their mass destruction toys. Personally I find the second option a much more horrendous way to end things. Pretty much like the disasters in our real world.
Dying in the cold black of a failing terraformed world, or nuclear winter brought to a more habitable one. I can picture a lone survivor, before succumbing to death's embrace staring up at stars and screaming; "God damn them all! God damn them all to Hell!"
Stuff like the Kentares Massacre is why I never miss a chance to shit on the Combine. I prefer even the Capellans to the Combine, and i utterly hate the Capellans.
He should have taken the throne himself, as the last Regent of the Star League, he was probably the most suitable candidate for position, and likely the one least contestable.
"Least contestable" - contested by literally every single other House Lord, and probably the periphery ones too, not to mention all the people in the Hegemony who blamed him for bringing war to their worlds. The Star League was doomed. It was either fight and die to build something new amongst the ruins of the Hegemony, or skedaddle out to the deep unknown.
@@captainteutonica5474 funny how I first found out about this universe's funny mechs and I'm now discussing the ramifications of a fictional sniper that inadvertently caused a 400 mil genocide
Hey everyone. Next week's video is going to be releasing on Sunday (at the usual timeslot) because I'll be busy getting drunk Saturday night. Hopefully y'all can still make it.
That is an honorable reason
it's Saturday afternoon & I raise this beer to your well being
Just a question,but do we know what's going on with the Clans at this time,while the Succession Wars are raging?
@@Rellana1 Bitchfight slapfest and 'muh honor'
@@Rellana1The Clan's don't exsist yet. The Old SLDF is still colonizing the Kerensky Cluster. That all changes here real soon, in 2800.
"It was an AFFS Sniper that managed to kill nearly 52 million civilians with a single bullet" -Kurita
Any sane reasonable individual will surely reach the same conclusion.
If you disagree the ISF will happily discuss it with you. At length.
Just a friendly chat between friends.
If Davion didn't want that level of bloodshed they shouldn't have fired that shot.
@@samanthamccormick1436 The length of a katana.
Its safe to say Kentares was heavily inspired by the real life atrocity of the Nanjing Massacre. Appropriate since the Combine are based on Imperial Japan.
I hadn't thought about the connection before but it's a fairly obvious parallel in hindsight. I actually don't know much about the real life event, beyond some of the details from the first few days. Dan Carlin had a superb series on Imperial Japan that discussed at length the ruthlessness with which they treated the Chinese in that era, but I think a lot of the discussion around Nanjing regarded it's modern day controversy and less so the actual slaughter. But then that was like a 30-hour podcast so I'm probably forgetting a lot.
@@SvenVanDerPlank and after all thay they still dare blabbering about honor left and right where there is none
@@m4r00123
The Japanese honor system was largely for royals, but even then it was convenient at best. Japanese history is full of atrocities on their own people, so it is no surprise that during the second World War that that same brutality would continue.
Wow!
I didnt think I would ever find an IP to rival 40k, but here we are!
I just discovered Battletech through Mechwarrior 5, so this channel and Black Pants Legion have been amazing :)
Welcome to the community mate, pull up your favourite mech, crack open a beer and sit back and enjoy the warcrimes.
But overall glad to have you here and hope you stick around and enjoy.
In 40k, there are supernatural and alien forces to make the world suck.
In battletech, it's ALL on old fashioned human cruelty and greed.
@reecedignan8365 Cheers brother, appreciate it!
@vp21ct Hell yeah. So far my impression is that it's a lot more technical as opposed to 40ks high fantasy approach. Really cool stuff
@@vp21ct
In 40k, it sucks, has sucked, and will always suck, if not suck MORE. In BT, it SOMETIMES sucks less.
I never realized just how close to winning Kurita had come. Makes me wonder if this was the impetus for Davion focusing so much on training its troops from this point forward.
There's definitely an aspect of "never again" about the way the AFFS transformed into the premier power in the Inner Sphere, at least until it happens again later on in the timeline.
I see that now too. The drive to New avalon was deep. Thus ilclan Era hijinks come to life. But didn't the Davion Civil War pre star league damage a lot of worlds in the crucial March? Was castle Brian strategy also copied my great houses? Thus better home defenses close to capitals.
Ironically, the Massacre of Kentares probably saved the Fed Suns, as it showed them they had to win no matter the cost. With one order, Jinjiro lost them the war.
It galvanised the Federated Suns when they were facing an imminent defeat, but it also shocked the Kuritans into immobility. They lost all cohesion at the front, and they were a long way from home.
@@SvenVanDerPlank Also the local ComStar precentor deciding to publicize it showed Blake and Toyama another way they could pull everyone's strings for the next few centuries.
The fact that the massacre used only conventional weapons, and the ability of people to see it happening, is something people probably only now realise the psychological effect of when compared to the vague notion of a number that's beyond human comprehension. This weekend being a perfect example of this in the real world, though multiple conflicts over the past decade have managed to see similar effect due to the existence of social media which all had a more emotional impact on people then things within living memory of larger scale, such as the Congo civil war.
In a few months, with guns and swords Jinjiro matches Stalin and Mao's kill count and they did that over decades with Famines
As a true son of House Davion, all that can be said is “Remember Kentares”. Tho to any loyal davion, we all know what Kentares truly means, and that big nice red blob is about to be driven in hard and the kuritan casualty numbers are going to sky rocket massively.
But keep up the good work mate, can’t wait for you to have this series over so I can watch it through as 1 big blob but also stream it with my friends.
And hopefully with the rising star of the Battletech universe, hopefully a few up and coming TH-camrs and vtubers might be pointed in the direction of yours and Tex’s vids and we can see a new era of Battletech reactions to rival 40k ones.
And while 40k one’s can have their “dramatic moments” just the human nature and feel of Battletech just leaves something completely different feeling in your heart after you watch these - especially when they are excellently voice acted too.
Minor note, the talon Sgt that was dispatched to give the Coordinator that news. I hope he prevented that cowardly aide from having a second, or took up that duty and was derelict in beheading him. Kudos to the coordinator for being merciful to that enlisted man.
IIRC it was the latter. Jinjiro personally took on the role of second and made a botched job by decapitating Sorai fully instead of leaving enough skin to keep his head attached to the body. Whether the botching was on purpose or not is known only to Jinjiro himself.
52 million FedSun souls disagree with Jinjiro having any Kudos
Ironic that the events of Kentares IV had the opposite effect that House Kurita wanted. Instead of further demoralizing House Davion, it spurred them on to kick House Kurita back to (almost) pre-war borders. It also serves as an interesting formation of a future Merc unit; the Ever Free. One of the Kuritian officers who refused orders wasn't outright executed, but sent to a convict regiment where he met his wife and the two of them would then defect to House Davion.
Love that you added episode numbers to them. Helps keep the order for rewatching and/or searching for specific info within. But would it be possible, when talking about planets on the strategic map, that you do a highlight of the names? So when you are talking about Tikonov, for instance, we don't have to scan the entire map section? A highlighted target(s) can help draw the viewer into where the OPFOR is going and movement of the regiment banners, from where the came, illustrates scope of the campaign, as it were. It is a minor thing, but with the map so huge, it could help in seeing the scope or movements of each house/unit
Thank you for the suggestion, it's a very good one. I will look at making that change.
I do use crosshairs regularly in the videos but it's usually to point out a planet when I don't know the specific unit involved in the attack (and thus, no regimental icon moving).
I think what's happening is that I've spent so many hundreds of hours looking at these maps on my end that I've developed a horrifying ability to point to where these places are without even having to look. So when I say, "they went to Tikonov," that takes me about 0.1 seconds to locate. However, my mistake is forgetting that nobody but the super nerds like me have that knowledge.
It's not horrifying, it's simple familiarity.
England isn't terribly large, but as an American I'd be hard pressed to be able to point out where London is located. Yet I can point out the locations of several major cities in the US, a far larger geographic region.
It's simple familiarity with the subject matter. Nothing horrific about it at all.
"You absolute psychopaths" bro stop calling me out
I just wanted to see how you would handle the event and you handled it very impactfully
You will have my interest to the end of this series and beyond. Your videos are always so entertaining, and feel like a real life documentary of these events. Keep up the great work, and, as a Fed Suns fan, “Remember Kentares!”
Thank you, I'm glad to have your support.
It's the Kuritans that must remember Kentares anytime they mention anything about honor
Agreed, and if they don’t, I am sure the AFFS will be happy to help them remember.
I feel a proper TV series covering the history of the Battletech universe with the greatest of respect towards the lore would be absolutely amazing... but I would also be left crying/enraged/depressed after every episode.
I suspect any TV show that got made would leave BT fans crying/enraged/depressed, but probably not because of respect to the lore, but lore inaccuracy 😂
@@SvenVanDerPlank Considering the current track record of media industry and how often it plays fast and loose with any creative source materials... I must reluctantly agree with your assessment.
We always have the propaganda cartoon.
That ending shook me. Well done.
Also, happy to see a shout out to the Fighting Urukhai. I got a giggle when I stumbled across their Sarna article.
These videos dont have enough likes man. They're so friggin good. I dont think most people realize how good and how deep the mechwarrior lore is.
I'm continually surprised myself to learn just how deep the rabbit hole goes. Kind of madness that a relatively obscure sci-fi universe has more written about it than pretty much any more popular modern series. Only the juggernauts like Star Trek and Star Wars have a wider range of sources.
@SvenVanDerPlank well thank you for deepening all of our knowledge, you deserve 10x the views and likes on each of your videos!
Noticed you doing color swap when territories change hands - I really like this! I think if I remember right very early on you said in a comment it was probably not worth doing but I feel it works really well and I'm glad to see you changed your mind!
I've been doing that throughout this entire series. It was always my intention to do so, that's why I made my own maps so I could more easily reflect the changes on screen.
@@SvenVanDerPlank Ahh OK, I think maybe in the very first few episodes on BattleTech history map swaps didn't happen? Maybe I'm misremember but that's what I meant, comment included. Great series anyway!
14:09 the fighting Urukhai with the white hand is pretty on the nose lol
That unit and insignia originates in a 1988 sourcebook. Obviously LotR was a very widely known series of books, especially among the kind of nerd who plays tabletop games, but I don't think it stood out nearly as much back then as it does now in the 21st century.
"Davion squeezes the Kuritan bulge."
Just for the record, the sourcebook said that. Repeatedly. It wasn't me who chose that phrasing.
God, guns, and Battletech. Absolutely love your approach to the lore. Makes me with they would put thin down in novels.
I have played Battletech since it's original creation, but this fictional story, just hits me in the feels for some reason.
I had no idea. I already knew I didn't root for any of the successor states, but I hadn't been given a reason to hate a specific one as much as Kurita deserves. Its a symptom of this being a realistic setting, there are no good guys, but there are certainly worse guys.
I been a BT fan all the way back when the cartoon 1st came out. I am really happy to see how it all begins. Reading it without a map kinda does not show the whole picture. Your videos do an excellent job of showing it.
Keep up the good job.
Thank you, I will. I'd definitely does help you picture events more clearly when you see them unfold on a map. It also lets me see who was referencing a map when they wrote their sourcebooks, and who wasn't, lol.
@@SvenVanDerPlank there lore that makes no sense on the map or just wrong locations?
Man... And I though how the combine screw one of their own over when learning about the marauder 2 and the wolf's dragoons history was bad enough of an dishonorable display.
Not going to be surprised if the fed sun guys starts to just start raining nukes and moving on in the next episode for the blood letting carried out.
The Kuritans have one more year of gaining territory before word of the massacre on Kentares spreads through the ranks like a virus and brings the campaign to a crashing halt. The shot that kills Minoru is a turning point in the history between the two realms.
Great job as always! I think it is good you point out why it was such a changer in the war. The fact it was so personal in a war that was usually less personal.
It's a weird situation where the nature of the massacre coupled with the fact it was a turning point in the war means it has far more longevity in the public consciousness than the Exterminatus of several planets with populations in the billions.
I think Kentares IV sticks out in the First Succession War because those others at least were not trying to kill civilians, it was just an unintended side-effect. Steiner may have nuked an entire planet but at least their goal was to deny Kurita the factories on the surface. When Jinjiro ordered the civilian population exterminated all he was doing was venting his own frustration and even undermined his own war effort.
Well, I'd say that's a very charitable view of the general Succession War mindset. As our humble narrator pointed out several times up to this point, it was a very common attitude to grab what you can, and blow up everything else to deny your opponents any edge. I'd say that glassing entire civilisations can hardly be considered an "unintended side-effect". It's simply easier to push a button and annihilate a planet than to mobilize ground forces for a lengthy and costly campaign. It's business, nothing more.
@@monkeybusiness673 Except you can't say 'It's business, nothing more' about Kentares IV. How was it supposed to benefit the Draconis offensive? It hurt the offensive, even ignoring moral because troops and supplies have to be diverted from the front lines to carry it out.
@@spectre111 Well, yes. Which is precisely why it sticks out so much. Everybody else could point at the DC and say "That was really messed up, mate!", all the while ignoring their own atrocities which they willingly and without second thought accepted as "That's just how it works!"
My point was that (in your example) Steiner denying Kurita the factories was the goal and nuking civilians in the process was just shrugged off, which imho is not really any better than Kentares IV.
@@monkeybusiness673 I won't argue which is better or worse because it would be too marginal anyway.
I think that is why Kentares IV stands out in BT despite other incidents. Unlike the others there is just no defense you could offer for it.
At least glassing major population centers from orbit was a fast demise. Waiting for maniacs with swords and small arms is far more drawn out suffering.
In the face of such nightmares, I often try to look to the helpers. I wonder if any of the tragically small number of Kuritans who defied Jinjiro managed to save some precious few lives.
One example is from the Legacy (Anthology), specifically the short story titled "Swords of Light and Darkness" in which a Kuritan Tai-i struggles with his ideals of honor and duty as he hides a local Kentaran girl from his superiors. It isn't clear whether he was successful, but it highlights the inner conflict that was brought up with the file-and-rank Kuritans.
I may be combining two different short stories, but I think there was another story set during the Chain gang missions on the run-up to the 2ndSW (confusingly written before the Legacy anthology) that continues his story. He's haunted by the ghost of a girl he killed (or allowed to be killed) on Kentares.
A great day made even better with another BattleTech lore video! I finally got my PS5 after 2 years of life getting in the way, so watching this while it's setting up is a major win. Hope you're doing well today!
I watched this vid series many time. very good for using time in business trip. like typical netflix documenary.
Thank you, I'm glad you've been enjoying them. Hopefully they're a welcome distraction from work.
I can't believe I missed the premier.
This is such a powerful episode. Incredible work.
No worries, thanks for the support, and for the title to the video.
@@SvenVanDerPlank You continue to do the most unique work. It really feels like historical documentary except it is from future that never happened.
God.. finally only 5 hour remaining.. waiting is hard at least we had PLENNNNTY OF HISTORY OF BATTLETECH in queue. right sven?
thanks to content creator for the work you put into the channel, your audience appreciates you sir
Well done. Always good to get home and unwind to some good lore. Good stuff as always.
Awesome video, please keep up the good work :D
Another great video! Thanks for such an in-depth look
More deep lore! I need MORE!
Damn. I had head of the massacre and knew Kurita was involved but DAMN.
Their proudest moment. Goddamn Kuritans.
Always good to have a Saturday show
Very well done Sven.
Another amazing video... Gosh dang does Kurita go over the edge.
Love your work
Thank you, glad to hear it.
I was crying through the kentares narration
More fantastic stuff!!!
Great work. Really love it.
This is excellent stuff. There is a fantastic picture of a Von Rohrs/Hebi at 17:17, may I ask the source? It’s one of my favourite mechs.
It's from the Kurita Handbook. I didn't recognise the 'Mech so I thought it was a much later design.
@@SvenVanDerPlankThe Kurita Handbook? Thanks for the info👍
I hope you all now see that the course of action we took over Galedon was deserved and righteous, quiaff?
- Clan Snow Raven
In what book is it written that a Sargent in the Davion military assassinated Minoru Kurita? I have read the original house Kurita book multiple times and never came across that information?
It's in the original Davion Housebook from 1988. Think it might also have been in the First Succession War sourcebook.
@SvenVanDerPlank I don't have the Davion hand book but I do have the first succession war book. I will go over it
I don't actually know this era of the story, so this is particularly interesting to hear. If there's any justice, Jinjiro will be assassinated by his own military for honor's sake. Knowing Battletech, I'm expecting Jinjiro to live to a ripe old age and die peacefully in his sleep.😕
Well not to spoil anything, but it sounds like you know BattleTech history pretty well, lol 😢
it might be useful in the descriptions to list the time frames these cover.
Cheers!
The moment we’ve all been waiting for…
14:10 Well, someone is a LOTR fan.
I have put my money where my mouth is. I am a patron for you. Keep up the great work. Remember kentares!
Thank you very much for supporting me on Patreon. I hope you continue to enjoy the videos as I put them out.
Grind through this... because it will be WELL worth it when you get to Tukkayid in 300 years
Can't tell if you're making a joke about how long it's taking me to get through the timeline, lol. One day I'll reach the Clan Invasion.
8:39 I've gotta know, what mech is this? There's not too many around with a center torso autocannon. Or as distinctive a head.
It's a Hermes (they are Hermeses? lol)
www.sarna.net/wiki/Hermes_II
@@SvenVanDerPlank Thanks!
Great stuff
It's interesting how different dispassionate slaughter and personalized massacres are from an instinctive moral perspective. It's horrible to wipe cities or planets off the map, but such is war. You can write it off as lamentable collateral damage. It's unforgivable to industrialize the slaughter of civilians with the actual goal being the utter annihilation of an entire population, one victim at a time. It's why the firebombing of Dresden and the nuclear destruction of Hiroshima and Nagasaki are so much less offensive than the death camps of Germany. It's why the mass slaughter of tens or even hundreds of millions under communism doesn't get the same visceral reaction as the targeted murders of the Holocaust, the Greek/Armenian Genocides, and other ethnic cleansings and genocidal campaigns even though the absolute number of victims pales in comparison. There's something especially heinous in the deliberate and personal killing of innocents as a goal in and of itself rather than as an incidental by-product of a socio-economic policy or strategy of war.
Apparently the industrial slaughter of Native Americans hardly makes a blip, as the perps still market and think of themselves as the good guys....
So by your account the Capellan Confederation is a faction that not became a primary victim of unprovoked agression on par with the Hegemony but also commited the least amount of war crimes.
Welcome to the history of Battletech.
Suprisingly House Liao is actually the least aggressive Great House, and the least likely to betray their employees with occasional exceptions. The Exceptions become infamous.
The Capellans had their fair share of warcrimes. None that I can think of reached the multi-million mark though, so perhaps less so than the others. But they definitely deployed WMDs against both Davion and Marik (don't know about Kurita and there's no known attacks on Steiner) and threatened several Terran Hegemony worlds with Exterminatus unless they swore fealty.
@@SvenVanDerPlank So they only used WMD against adversaries and not civilian populations? In a defensive stance I might add.
No, not really. In fact the largest task force the Capellans would assemble during the war was part of the infamous "Devlin Solution" and existed explicitly for exterminating Marik cities.
Their campaign against the Davions was decidedly more reserved, but that was largely because of one guy, who will be one of the focus points in the next episode. But the Chesterton Liberation Battalion had already set off a tactical nuke on Demeter back in 2760, so they're not really any better than anyone else.
@@SvenVanDerPlank wrong answer, comrade. I think you should spend some time in a rehabilitation camp to help you come to your semses.
Loving the vids
Remember folks nothing happened on Kentares IV
There don't seem to be any "good" guys around, but the Kuritans are certainly on the bad spectrum.
I wonder if you will be going over what happened on Sendai after Kentares.
Yes, the next episode covers (among other things) the response to the Kentares Massacre, including the Eridani Light Horse's decision to depart the Combine.
@@SvenVanDerPlankWhy would they sign up with the Dragon in the first place eludes me. All they wanted was to protect the Rasalhague people since the SLDF left them to die in the Succession Wars.
They never did. The 3rdRCT was based on the Combine since before the Star League Civil War. After the High Council sent everyone home at the conclusion of the conflict, they returned to their base on Trondheim. The DC allowed them to remain on the condition that they help repel any "pirate" activity in the region. They continually rejected offers by the DC to hire on as mercenaries.
@@SvenVanDerPlank I thought the whole Sendai situation started when ELH broke the employment contract due to the Kentares massacre, and the planetary governor took their families hostage to make them stay.
And this kicked off a lot of mercs leaving Kurita since now they knew Kurita would kill every last one of them rather than have them potentially work for their rivals.
Not quite. I'll talk about it in the next video. The governor did take their families hostage but there was no contract. Just a case of "if I can't have you, no one can."
Wow, that was dark.
So, basically the First Succession war was most if not all the warships in the Inner Sphere going "MUTAL DESTRUCTION" on each other...
20:56 And thus began the Kentares massacre... One of the most if not THE most infamous massmurder in Battletech history... No wonder the hatred. Of course whatever anti-asian hatred from Fed Suns and Lyrans is nothing compared the the utter loathing the Rasalhagians have for Japanese...
While Liao have this tendency to go insane Kurita has a tendency to go full on genocidal. Steiner are arrogant and stupid. Davion are like "Hey look at me!" Can be as devious as their English ancestors. And Marik is just "Where the hell did I put my warships?"...
I guess kuritans don't like to talk about Kentares.
Why, what happened on Kentares? Nothing I've heard of.
When you gonna play desert global storm I love how you play the game ❤
I wonder if any one thought to offer the sniper to the kuritans.
No further mention of that person.
There are further mentions of hin actually
When he found out what he caused he killed himself
Remember Kentares!
Goddamn do they need a version of the hague or something.
Well there was this thing called the Ares Conventions but it was hella inconvenient.
events BT can feel darker the 40k, because this isn't a grimdark universe, this was neither unavoidable nor normal.
fighting Urukhai
When did House Davion abandon reason for madness?
That question could be pretty much aimed at everyone at this point in the lore. lol
When the writers felt it needed to be done. (Caleb Davion, 3099-3144)
The great tragedy is about to happen on Kentares.
One of the greatest japes of our time.
@@SvenVanDerPlank not quite a bit of trolling, nor a smidge of trolling
a CERTAIN AMOUNT of trolling
This makes it really hard to play through the Dragons Gambit expansion of MW5.
Well, different times and all that. Not many modern-day states are too proud of what they were up to in the 18th century.
brutal
Remember Kentares!!
I think the Kentares Massacre is a bit like that Stalin commentary: "a single death is a tragedy, a million deaths are a statistic”
It certainly was a good propaganda/morale boost for Davion.
Millions died on Kentares executed yea, it is horrible... but billions died on the rest of the Inner Sphere by the hands of the other militaries and their mass destruction toys.
Personally I find the second option a much more horrendous way to end things.
Pretty much like the disasters in our real world.
Dying in the cold black of a failing terraformed world, or nuclear winter brought to a more habitable one. I can picture a lone survivor, before succumbing to death's embrace staring up at stars and screaming; "God damn them all! God damn them all to Hell!"
i shouldnt watch these while drinking
"squeezed kuritas bulge"
You found the idea strangely alluring?
@@SvenVanDerPlank and incredibly amusing. a welcome break from the horrors of the war so far
I've said it before and i'll keep saying it the dragon is the poison in the heart of the inner sphere
Typical fedrat. The Dragon is your salvation. Bow before it.
@@SvenVanDerPlank I am a lyran loyalist and Patriot good ser
Urgh! Elsies are even worse. Steiner bootlicker and money-grubber.
Kentares was a self-defence situation.
They were fired upon first.
Han shot first
And the War Crimes continue!
How one FWL leader and his addiction to steroids expanded his territory by dozens of systems
Stuff like the Kentares Massacre is why I never miss a chance to shit on the Combine. I prefer even the Capellans to the Combine, and i utterly hate the Capellans.
...the oNe thing that i know for real
THERE WILL BE BLOOD
SHED
THE MAN IN THE MIRROR NODS HIS HEAD
I prefer Battletech universe to WH40k it much more grounded but stil grim! Kerensky was wrong to leave
He should have taken the throne himself, as the last Regent of the Star League, he was probably the most suitable candidate for position, and likely the one least contestable.
"Least contestable" - contested by literally every single other House Lord, and probably the periphery ones too, not to mention all the people in the Hegemony who blamed him for bringing war to their worlds. The Star League was doomed. It was either fight and die to build something new amongst the ruins of the Hegemony, or skedaddle out to the deep unknown.
Remember Kentares
"Should have shot him in the other head." - Sargeant Latha Pischel
He offed himself after finding out what happened on Kentares btw
@@TheR00k ouch
@@TheR00kfamous last words I guess.
@@captainteutonica5474 funny how I first found out about this universe's funny mechs and I'm now discussing the ramifications of a fictional sniper that inadvertently caused a 400 mil genocide
@@TheR00k I absolutely feel you.
There are no good guys in Battletech, only guys who are less worse.
REMEMBER KENTARES!
Speed, distance, technological advancements and reversals...
Humanity stays the same. Its oldest curses permenant; war, greed, racism.
REMEMBER KENTARES!!!!!
Pretty fucking grim
"...they had it coming"..