Who else is here after watching Sally’s parents Mormon story? Thank you John for gifting the world with your platform by these stories. Hopefully they are opening closed up minds to other sides of humility and humanity
I saw them in the shorts and got here through the connection of Mormonism to the Daybells, something I didn’t follow and that showed up in my feed because I listened to one in the up next column. Glad I found the podcast.
I enjoyed this podcast so much. I am an old gay ex-Mo. I am also one of the organizers of the beach event at the beach mentioned in this episode. It is so gratifying that someone found our gatherings helpful. We call it the SoCal Interfaithless Family Beach Day. We invite the ex-Mormons, ex-Scientologists, ex-JW's, ex-Orthodox Jews, ex-Muslim, ex-Mennonite etc. We all have similar experiences leaving high-demand religions. It can be cathartic finding others that have had similar experiences. We were able to have one in September 2021 with about 80+ people joining us for the beach party. Best wishes for Lena & Sal to have a happy life.
That's beautiful. I'm ex-mormon and the first helpful conversation I had after my faith transition was with an ex-muslim. I was surprised by how similar our life experiences were and so encouraged by our shared humanity.
Yes. This was a big deal. A short story but so impactful. Everyone listening was thinking of that one thing they wished they’d done or that one person they wished they’d pursued or what have you. Thanks, John, that was incredibly meaningful.
🤯 “Self betrayal is not a virtue…” This entire interview is amazing!! Love the Glennon Doyle shoutout as well! You ladies have no idea the positive impact this will have on those wrestling with their own sexuality. I wish I’d had the capacity to exit the church and my marriage the way you two have, with love and grace. 🙏🏼 it may have saved some heartache. Regardless, I am in a peaceful place now, and the work it took to get here was worth it. I just want to honour your stories and thank you for sharing them.
Why do people act like we don't know our sexuality? People know who they are. If these two were "lesbian" or even bi, they would have known. Lena is the more quiet one, and Sal takes control, so she follows. They would have known their sexual orientations.
@@IWantToMature85 Not necessarily. Their sexuality may have been deeply repressed due to their religious conditioning. They perhaps didn't know what true romantic love was until they found it in each other.
I am a fan of Mormon Stories, I’m not a Mormon and never was, and the thing that makes this channel so great is because all this is about is human experiences and stories. This has been one of my most favorite episodes . A truly love story, so courageous and brave. I wish you the best but I know you are there now. Beautiful!! From Mexico City
Not Mormon or ever Mormon. But I’ve never heard a love story so similar to myself and my wife. She was raised very catholic. Met in Catholic college. Neither of us identified as gay/lesbian. But the magnetic force was there. We ended up marrying and have 7 kids now. Thankfully our families have mostly all come around. And they never say harmful things to the kids. Which is my number one rule. It was great to hear a story so similar to ours. We never really chose to date. Just ended up here. Thanks for the story!
These two have helped me adopt a whole new perspective on being in love and being gay. I have two gay children and I’ve always outwardly accepted them but inside I have always struggled and wanted “ more for them”. This brought me to full acceptance and complete happiness for them. Thank you both for sharing your deepest emotions in telling your story. You both are such beautiful souls and such incredible humans! May your love never fade. ❤
Well this is a huge cup of sunshine. Watching John and Carah being absolutely obsessed with them both was the most gorgeous thing. So much of this story is what living life is all about. Happy tears. Thank you all as ever, and thank you John for opening up with the story about Gina, so powerful and so pertinent alongside this Mormon Story. Much love to you all.
Why do you think that it's all of those things? Women know who they are attracted to and these two are trying to say that they realized later and never liked their husband's. Come on!
This is hands down my favorite episode of Mormon Stories. I’m literally getting butterflies listening to you describe your falling in love story. It’s just beautiful!💗💗💗
Their story had me tearing up multiple times throughout. So, so beautiful. You can see and feel the love between them. I'm so happy to see them living authentically and ditching the self betrayal.
The long-haired one (Lena) didn't even feel that way. Sal was supposedly into her. That isn't fair to act like she liked her too just because one did. Come on, you are grown enough to know this!
Ladies your story seriously brought happy tears to my eyes. That moment starting at 1:19:00 of you guys reconnecting and finally experiencing love, boy that was powerful.
The way Lena and Sal have to be connecting and touching is so evident of how much they adore each other. That cannot be manufactured and makes this story so real as they tell it. Wow, so wonderful to see people finally choose to live authentically. Having left the church and my marriage in my 50's, I certainly can attest that you learn that it simply does not matter what anyone else thinks of you. Only we are responsible for our own happiness, end of story. Also, deep down many that are so judgmental are quite often not happy themselves and are quite jealous of other's personal freedom, authenticity and happiness.
I've watched both interviews with Sal and Lena and I am exhausted but in a very good way. You are examples of what I have always felt and that is this: love is love. We need way more of what you share and not less of it. Thank you for this great interview - incredibly inspiring to all.
How? Both were married, having emotional affairs and y'all find this great to hear. Come on! Lena was bring pushed into this. Sal was trying to force her out of her marriage. You can't even do that when you are not in the confines of their marriage.
Please extract the section at about 1:30 where John tells the story of his sister and Lena and Sal respond. That section is so powerful. It would make for a great about 15 minute video.
John, Lena and Sal - As a 79 yr old non Mormon white guy who grew up around lots of Mormons in Las Vegas, this is the best of your Podcasts to date. Beautiful love story - so happy for all of you. John - your podcasts have human appeal way beyond just the Mormon church focus. Lessons in truth, science, spirituality, love and honesty are always timely.
Len's and Sal's story is just so so beautiful. I have been really touched by it as a male of 72 who has been happily married to my lovely wife for 46 years. The power of love!
Straight, non Mormon here. It takes a tremendous amount of courage to to get a Divorce. What I admire in both of you: Not bashing your former husbands, not blaming your husband for the divorce. Still wanting your former husband’s to be in your childrens life, being true to yourselfs.
They are soo cute! As a bisexual that used to surpress their crushes on girls, hearing how they navigated it all and came out on top is really heartwarming!
As a lesbian, ex-Mormon, thank you thank you for NOT saying being gay is about sexuality! I knew when I was 3 years old, first crush in 4th grade, way before sex. These two ladies fell in love before even the first kiss! I hate it when “Christians” say, “ don’t throw your sexuality in my face.” Being gay has zero to do with sex. Everything to do with who you’re attracted to. Sex, later, is an expression of that love.
This is literally the story of my fiancé and I except in the evangelical Christian world…. And I didn’t have a husband. Refused to get married but didn’t know why until I fell in love with my person 😂😂 Thank you for sharing!!
This was beautiful thank you! 😊 Watched both parts 1 and 2... longest podcast interview I have ever seen! 😄 Love how deep you went with your conversation. Beautiful, loving authenticity 🙏
Sal was rushing this relationship when Lena didn't seem comfortable yet everyone here including the host finds it great and funny. It's sad that we defend betraying spouses in this case.
@@IWantToMature85 I don't recall getting that impression at all! It's not a betrayal to their spouses, it's being honest! There was no romantic love there. These women have also set their spouses free and given them a chance to find true love with heterosexual women.
I am not Mormon but really enjoy hearing people's personal stories & life journeys and this podcast is so wonderful for that. I loved listening to Sal & Lena's story - they are blessed in finding each other and then finding a path to be together, despite all the difficulties. Their perspectives are inspirational and moving.
So good to see you happy. The pain of knowing you are hurting someone you care about is torture. The strength you have shown to be who you are is amazing.
My heart skipped a beat when they talked about confessing to each other. Love should always take priority, especially if it means the difference between ending everything for devotion to the church over self respect, self acceptance, and self love. This was great!
Lena didn't even confess. She's more quiet. Sal spoke for both of them. Lena should be able to think for herself before making confessions as you call it.
The second last section hit pretty hard, since I'm transgender and stuck living with an unaccepting family, I was raised in a cult-like community, and have had to put my transition on hold for the sake of keeping the "peace". It's exhausting not being true to myself for the benefit of other people. Ironically, I can tell my parents aren't happy either, because they firmly believe that life is about making sacrifices and doing what's "right" at the cost of themselves. Although I've never been Mormon, Mormon Stories has been helping me unpack a lot of struggles I grew up with. I really appreciate what Mormon Stories is doing, it's not only helping ex Mormons but anyone coming from religions they've felt trapped in. Thank you for sharing the story of this amazing couple.
Thank you for sharing your story ❤❤ I hope things get better for you. You deserve a life surrounded with people who you love and who love you, and with whom you can be yourself authentically. ❤❤❤
Absolutely BEAUTIFUL in every way. Thank you all for your honesty and vulnerability. John, thank you for sharing Gina’s story. Four incredible humans on this very special podcast.
What a story, so eloquent. What a love story, amazing. Astonishing how peoples gay or lesbian feelings, can stay dormant for a long time with out them knowing it. Such beautiful person's Lena and Sal. I can only wish them happiness. There must be other women or men out their who might be similar who do not know they are gay or lesbian. These can be leaders in the church, yet the LDS church treats the LGBT community badly.
Came to TH-cam from the audio Podcast so I could see the magnetism. Congrats to these two for making difficult decisions, finding one another and living their truth!
I feel like this episode was made for me. Thank you so so so much for having the hard conversations so that we can grow as a community. Peace and love 🤟
Wow. That’s such a powerful short story, John. Thanks for sharing that with us. The thing I was most concerned about in this story was cheating. Cheating is devastating to the partner. The second most thing I was concerned about was the children because children that grow up in a single parent home are at a severe disadvantage to other children, but these two in sharing their story there is really nothing wrong with their actions and choices based on what they shared with us. It would be nice to hear from the husbands to see their point of view and how it unfolded from their side, but these two have shared a genuine, loving, and beautiful story.
I don't agree with 99 percent of these comments. I just don't. But I'm glad I listened and I'm thankful as an ex mormon to mormon stories podcast. Everybody's stories deserve to be heard. ❤
What I would say to your sister and to people who are asking those questions, sometimes you have to be selfish in order to be selfless. One of my favorite episodes John, appreciate your work and the stories you’re sharing :)
Why do you say that when they hurt their spouses and had affairs whether it's emotional or not? That isn't okay, but I guess if one sex cheats then you find it fine. Please do better!
Thanks John for sharing. It's just unbelievable that some people can sacrifice so much but you owe it to yourself to be happy. What is more heartbreaking is people who live in denial their entire life. My heart is broken for those that never come out because of fear or religion. They will never know the love that Sal and Lena now have found. Everyone has a right to be themselves and be authentic. What is so strange is how people think it's a choice. No one would choose to have so many leave or hate you. When you are about to die you will smile and you will NOT regret dying because you will know you lived a true and authentic life.
My Great-Great Grandmother was widowed after her husband became sick while guarding the bodies of Joseph and Hyrum Smith in Nauvoo and died two weeks later. She was sealed to Dr.Bernhisel soon after, along with five other "women" on the same day. The good doctor was 46 years old, a lifelong bachelor and residing in Joseph's Smith's home. When I think of Joseph Smith's polygamy I also think of this doctor. I have to wonder what else was going on in that home? This relationship and family history re- Joseph Smith trouble me still. He neglected all of the wives except for his favorite, the 15 year old. He had been married to her mother as well. My GGGrandma did have a baby with him in Winters Quarters but was otherwise miserable. Wilford Woodruff approved her divorce years after her death.
It’s really tragic that there is only so much room on the MSP website for the top 25/100 podcasts. Every time I hear a good one it pushes another one down the list that is really good. This is one of the best as well. These two tell a beautiful story and I am extremely happy for them that they found their authentic selfs and can live as they would enjoy.
I’m an ex Christian and I absolutely love this interview. I’m a boring straight lady, but I absolutely loved getting a glimpse into this very real and beautiful lesbian relationship without all the stereotypes that comes along with tv and movies. Very happy for you two and I hope and pray every day people will feel strong enough to exit their religion boxes and just go be what they came here to be on Earth… free to just be you and me.
I love this podcast. Even though I'm not Mormon or ever was, there's so many things that I can relate as an ex-christian. Sometimes it's hard to believe that you can be spiritual without religion, but I learned I can and now I'm happy. I would love my family to hear these testimonies, but they don't know English 😢 does someone know where or how can I start with this kind of information or podcasts but in Spanish? thanks for the stories !
John your pod casts are so powerful. The ladies are fantastic. Poor Sal has lived so much of her life repressed. Lena also was so brave. You need to be your authentic self. I become so angry when people call it a "lifestyle" and believe it is a choice. Your sexuality is like the color of your eyes or your skin color. You can't change it. I do feel sympathy for the husbands but they can clearly see that what you did was not intentional you both did not know. So glad it all worked out.
Also wanted to add how much I enjoy Carah on the show - she & John have a terrific on-air symmetry when interviewing people. I didn't know that Carah was incredibly conservative before. I'm now looking up Carah's story so I can get up to speed on all that!
An amazing interview. It is an ‘and’. It also released your husbands to find fulfilling relationships that they also did not have. You are amazing that your marriages were so successful and I can see nothing but huge pluses for all the children having this huge blended family full of love.
Thank you Leaa and Sal for sharing your story. You are such a beautiful, authentic, loving, kind, and amazing couple. I'm so glad you both followed your inner voices and had the strength to be authentic to yourselves. Your children are so blessed to be in such a loving and devoted family. I send love and best wishes to you both and your family. I also enjoyed Kara and John's comments. John thank you for sharing your sister's story. Very powerful.
Major takeaways, “I have one wild and precious life” (brought a few tears). And, “We NEED healers.” Shared this with a friend who is studying to create her own yoga practice because wow that gave me such warm fuzzy feelings. Loved loved LOVED this episode. Thank you for sharing, both to Sal and Lena, and also John. Hoping Mormon stories has more lesbians on very soon 🥰 shout out to John’s commitment to diverse representation. Learning about asexuality from Maven’s story was so enlightening-and I’m a progressive Gen Z (cusp of millennial to be fair haha)! Also, whoever is leaving because of Kara… I’d just like to “talk”… I’m bummed when she’s gone (but love love love Jen, Sam, Margie, and ESPECIALLY Gerardo-GIVE US MORE GERARDO!!!!!!!)
I totally see the love language between Sal and Lena. You can can see that they are so in love with each other. I am so glad that they found each other!!!!!!
A very inspiring story. I believe that the fact the children are all so young as these family changes take place is a blessing. Older children trained in the bias of the church would more likely struggle. Best wishes for a wonderful, meaningful life!
Thanks so much for sharing your story. As a former wife, current mother, friend and ally of beautiful LGBTQIA+ people, it is so encouraging to see that you have found a space of love and peace. As for folks who have unkind things to say...remember that is about them, not you. I think of the scripture which says that "inasmuch as ye have done it unto the least of these...ye have done it unto me". We are to love one another...period.
Thank you Sal, Lena, John, and Cara. This is a great 2-episode series. Life is not easy (even for those who, from the outside seem to lead charmed lives), and being outside the "norm" in any significant way adds additional layers of problems to deal with. No one welcomes extra adjustments and problems, but trade-offs do exist and this show covers the some of the harm that comes from the thoughtlessness of the rigidity of other people extremely well. Keep up the good work.
That story about your sister really resonated with me. I married a non-member and for a few years I wrestled with thoughts that I made a mistake. Not because of his character, he is an amazing person, but because I didn’t have an eternal marriage. He was always supportive of my faith though and ok with our kids being raised Mormon and me paying tithing, wearing garments, etc. I never thought I would be “re-assigned” to a new husband but I had faith that it would work itself out after death and hope that he would be converted after death. Now that I’m out of the church I feel so lucky to have my husband and the life I chose. My faith transition was so much easier than a lot of people who are at odds with their still-believing spouse. Now I see that my feelings of regret were self imposed due to the teachings of the church and not because I made a poor choice in spouse. I’m so sorry your sister went to her grave still regretting her choice.
their story is so beautiful & is so humbling :’) i’m only 20 & been out for 8 yrs now holy crap, it’s insane how polar opposite our stories are yet i can still relate. what sal said about not having to explain herself to anyone is so powerful to me, it’s awful she felt that bc she couldn’t handle more trauma that i can’t imagine. but i will say, being out young & caring so deeply what ppl thought was its own trauma. i’m eternally grateful for that in an odd way, bc at my young age i truly never need anyone else to validate or even accept my identity. no matter what situation you came out in, it’s always such a brave choice. the queer experience is so varied yet intertwined, it’s fascinating.
Glennon and Abby have said they want to have double dates on their podcast and I hope these two get to go on and do that! That would be a great double date.
Wow, a very powerful love story. So pleased that Sal and Lena discovered their identity and are able to live their reality. I need to watch again as I fell asleep listening and didn’t hear how things worked out for Shane and Paul but I hope they both found contentment and joy in their lives. Thanks so much for sharing.
The Tom Phillips episode is the one that broke my shelf as well!!! I had been tip toeing away but when I heard his story, I thought “If someone who has their Calling and election made sure can just walk away, there is something I need to look into.”
I am so grateful to Lena and Sal as well as Cara and John for putting together such a wonderful few podcasts around these two lovely ladies in their stories.❤❤❤❤
This had me crying so many times. The live these two beautiful humans share is so rare. So deep. This is incredible. Really made me think about myself and my own marriage. Thank you for telling your beautiful story.🏳️🌈🤍🏳️🌈🤍🏳️🌈
Kids adapt. The hardest is probably for the spouse who is left. This happened to a close friend of my mom’s. He actually knew from a young age that he was gay, but it was not acceptable in society at that time, or his family or his church who he worked for (non Mormon). This was back in the late 70s-early 80s. He came out at age 59, after being married for 35 years and raising three kids. His wife was devastated. So it does a huge disservice to people everywhere when their religion pathologies homosexuality. Not all, but many more people would be able to come out before getting married….and thus avoid breaking the hearts of unknowing spouses.
I am so happy you found each other. Anyone who has felt love like this can't deny it in others. Sexuality is a spectrum. Gender is a spectrum. You shouldn't have to make yourself small to fit in other people's boxes. If G-d's love feels like shame, hate, or patriarchal control I don't want it. Love is love.
I'm a hour into this part, and I adore these two more then the 1st one, these two DEFINE ADORABLE! like they are so cute ! I freaking cannot deal with it lol. I absolutely love their chemistry, its beautiful, kinda gives me some hope that love is truly out there :) Beautiful Couple, and wonderful humans period, I sincerely hope these two are happy
I think they're very cute! But I can't help feeling bad for their previous husbands (I dont blame Lena and Sal-it's the system) I hope they're doing okay.
I would love to hear a Mormon story about how people broke the news to their children and how they phased them out or handled all of their questions. I fully support everyone leaving, I’m just curious about how you raise children fundamentally and then it takes you months to come to the “end” (your exit from the church) of your faith crisis and realize you’re done and they can’t really conceptualize what you’ve been going through for months.
We told our kids that it was just like finding out Santa clause wasn’t real, but for adults. We told them stories they could understand like that Joseph translated the BOM with a rock and a hat and that as adults we hadn’t heard that before. They asked how we knew that the story of the rock and the hat was real and we showed them the sources and the church website. My kids were 11, 9, 6 and 3 when my husband and I left the church. We have had so many conversations since and it’s really beautiful. Some of my kids expressed that they were excited because church was boring and my oldest said she never believed the stories told in Sunday school.
Two things: (1) either Sal or Lena mentioned seeing a therapist who wanted to make sure she wasn’t going through a “phase” by running to the woman she loves. How can a therapist think this was a phase? I can understand a therapist saying that to a spouse who was having an affair/fling with someone much younger person but this was two women who had surpassed their sexuality because of a high demand religion. It is a reality check and not a “phase”….in my opinion. (2) I am always amazed at the sheer number of people I have come across who have spent a life time suppressing their feelings for someone of the same sex. In my experiences it seems to be more women who have done this. I just can’t imagine being “forced” to be married to someone you are not attracted to.
Who else is here after watching Sally’s parents Mormon story? Thank you John for gifting the world with your platform by these stories. Hopefully they are opening closed up minds to other sides of humility and humanity
Watched it last year and now rewatch it after Sal's parents' episode :)
I saw them in the shorts and got here through the connection of Mormonism to the Daybells, something I didn’t follow and that showed up in my feed because I listened to one in the up next column. Glad I found the podcast.
I'm here because of the interview with Sals parents
Me
What’s the title of that episode
I enjoyed this podcast so much. I am an old gay ex-Mo. I am also one of the organizers of the beach event at the beach mentioned in this episode. It is so gratifying that someone found our gatherings helpful. We call it the SoCal Interfaithless Family Beach Day. We invite the ex-Mormons, ex-Scientologists, ex-JW's, ex-Orthodox Jews, ex-Muslim, ex-Mennonite etc. We all have similar experiences leaving high-demand religions. It can be cathartic finding others that have had similar experiences. We were able to have one in September 2021 with about 80+ people joining us for the beach party.
Best wishes for Lena & Sal to have a happy life.
That's beautiful. I'm ex-mormon and the first helpful conversation I had after my faith transition was with an ex-muslim. I was surprised by how similar our life experiences were and so encouraged by our shared humanity.
So is that leaving the Biblical definition of marriage between man and woman only, behind?
John, thank you for feeling open enough to share the story about your sister. It was so powerful and so heartbreaking.
Yes. This was a big deal. A short story but so impactful. Everyone listening was thinking of that one thing they wished they’d done or that one person they wished they’d pursued or what have you. Thanks, John, that was incredibly meaningful.
Amen
🤯 “Self betrayal is not a virtue…” This entire interview is amazing!! Love the Glennon Doyle shoutout as well! You ladies have no idea the positive impact this will have on those wrestling with their own sexuality. I wish I’d had the capacity to exit the church and my marriage the way you two have, with love and grace. 🙏🏼 it may have saved some heartache. Regardless, I am in a peaceful place now, and the work it took to get here was worth it. I just want to honour your stories and thank you for sharing them.
Love this comment ❤❤❤
Why do people act like we don't know our sexuality? People know who they are. If these two were "lesbian" or even bi, they would have known. Lena is the more quiet one, and Sal takes control, so she follows. They would have known their sexual orientations.
@@IWantToMature85 Not necessarily. Their sexuality may have been deeply repressed due to their religious conditioning. They perhaps didn't know what true romantic love was until they found it in each other.
I am a fan of Mormon Stories, I’m not a Mormon and never was, and the thing that makes this channel so great is because all this is about is human experiences and stories. This has been one of my most favorite episodes . A truly love story, so courageous and brave. I wish you the best but I know you are there now. Beautiful!! From Mexico City
I love this story so much. I am a 75 widow. A grandmother of many, at least three of them gay. What wonderful human beings. 💜❤️💜❤️
Not Mormon or ever Mormon. But I’ve never heard a love story so similar to myself and my wife. She was raised very catholic. Met in Catholic college. Neither of us identified as gay/lesbian. But the magnetic force was there. We ended up marrying and have 7 kids now. Thankfully our families have mostly all come around. And they never say harmful things to the kids. Which is my number one rule. It was great to hear a story so similar to ours. We never really chose to date. Just ended up here. Thanks for the story!
💛💛💛
These two have helped me adopt a whole new perspective on being in love and being gay. I have two gay children and I’ve always outwardly accepted them but inside I have always struggled and wanted “ more for them”. This brought me to full acceptance and complete happiness for them. Thank you both for sharing your deepest emotions in telling your story. You both are such beautiful souls and such incredible humans! May your love never fade. ❤
Well this is a huge cup of sunshine. Watching John and Carah being absolutely obsessed with them both was the most gorgeous thing. So much of this story is what living life is all about. Happy tears.
Thank you all as ever, and thank you John for opening up with the story about Gina, so powerful and so pertinent alongside this Mormon Story. Much love to you all.
I am going to be stealing that, “What a huge cup of sunshine.” The perfect way to describe my exact feelings.
I am literally crying
"I've been waiting for you" how beautiful, heartbreaking and amazing all at the same time
Why do you think that it's all of those things? Women know who they are attracted to and these two are trying to say that they realized later and never liked their husband's. Come on!
This is hands down my favorite episode of Mormon Stories. I’m literally getting butterflies listening to you describe your falling in love story. It’s just beautiful!💗💗💗
Same
Totally. I have been blown away by such expression of love between 2 people.
Their story had me tearing up multiple times throughout. So, so beautiful. You can see and feel the love between them. I'm so happy to see them living authentically and ditching the self betrayal.
The long-haired one (Lena) didn't even feel that way. Sal was supposedly into her. That isn't fair to act like she liked her too just because one did. Come on, you are grown enough to know this!
Ladies your story seriously brought happy tears to my eyes. That moment starting at 1:19:00 of you guys reconnecting and finally experiencing love, boy that was powerful.
Covenants are only as sacred as the “TRUTH” they are founded upon.
I smiled through this entire interview
“Can you hear yourself, and will you follow that?” -Sal
So good!
The way Lena and Sal have to be connecting and touching is so evident of how much they adore each other. That cannot be manufactured and makes this story so real as they tell it. Wow, so wonderful to see people finally choose to live authentically. Having left the church and my marriage in my 50's, I certainly can attest that you learn that it simply does not matter what anyone else thinks of you. Only we are responsible for our own happiness, end of story. Also, deep down many that are so judgmental are quite often not happy themselves and are quite jealous of other's personal freedom, authenticity and happiness.
How do you know? You don't even know this. Sal was the one trying to push Lena into a relationship.
❤ your channel. Thank you for creating this platform!!
I would LOVE to see an interview with both ex husbands
that would bring huge ratings
Me too. I’d love to know how their life is now.
This podcast has been a delight. Sal and Lena are so cute and obviously can't stop smiling and adoring each other. ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
My wife and I are both ex-mormon a few years behind you two. I am so glad you’re story is out there for all of us romantics needing hope.
I've watched both interviews with Sal and Lena and I am exhausted but in a very good way. You are examples of what I have always felt and that is this: love is love. We need way more of what you share and not less of it. Thank you for this great interview - incredibly inspiring to all.
How? Both were married, having emotional affairs and y'all find this great to hear. Come on! Lena was bring pushed into this. Sal was trying to force her out of her marriage. You can't even do that when you are not in the confines of their marriage.
Please extract the section at about 1:30 where John tells the story of his sister and Lena and Sal respond. That section is so powerful. It would make for a great about 15 minute video.
John, Lena and Sal - As a 79 yr old non Mormon white guy who grew up around lots of Mormons in Las Vegas, this is the best of your Podcasts to date. Beautiful love story - so happy for all of you. John - your podcasts have human appeal way beyond just the Mormon church focus. Lessons in truth, science, spirituality, love and honesty are always timely.
someone should make a movie about their love story because wow what a story!!!
I have been watching this non-stop, it's just so intriguing.
Seriously! I would totally watch that movie. ❤️
A mini series
There's a 4 part documentary on hulu
@@alyssaschollenberger4516 and it's really good!
Len's and Sal's story is just so so beautiful. I have been really touched by it as a male of 72 who has been happily married to my lovely wife for 46 years.
The power of love!
Straight, non Mormon here. It takes a tremendous amount of courage to to get a Divorce. What I admire in both of you: Not bashing your former husbands, not blaming your husband for the divorce. Still wanting your former husband’s to be in your childrens life, being true to yourselfs.
They are soo cute! As a bisexual that used to surpress their crushes on girls, hearing how they navigated it all and came out on top is really heartwarming!
As a lesbian, ex-Mormon, thank you thank you for NOT saying being gay is about sexuality!
I knew when I was 3 years old, first crush in 4th grade, way before sex.
These two ladies fell in love before even the first kiss!
I hate it when “Christians” say, “ don’t throw your sexuality in my face.”
Being gay has zero to do with sex. Everything to do with who you’re attracted to.
Sex, later, is an expression of that love.
This is literally the story of my fiancé and I except in the evangelical Christian world…. And I didn’t have a husband. Refused to get married but didn’t know why until I fell in love with my person 😂😂 Thank you for sharing!!
This was beautiful thank you! 😊 Watched both parts 1 and 2... longest podcast interview I have ever seen! 😄 Love how deep you went with your conversation. Beautiful, loving authenticity 🙏
Sal was rushing this relationship when Lena didn't seem comfortable yet everyone here including the host finds it great and funny. It's sad that we defend betraying spouses in this case.
@@IWantToMature85 I don't recall getting that impression at all! It's not a betrayal to their spouses, it's being honest! There was no romantic love there. These women have also set their spouses free and given them a chance to find true love with heterosexual women.
I am not Mormon but really enjoy hearing people's personal stories & life journeys and this podcast is so wonderful for that. I loved listening to Sal & Lena's story - they are blessed in finding each other and then finding a path to be together, despite all the difficulties. Their perspectives are inspirational and moving.
So good to see you happy. The pain of knowing you are hurting someone you care about is torture. The strength you have shown to be who you are is amazing.
My heart skipped a beat when they talked about confessing to each other. Love should always take priority, especially if it means the difference between ending everything for devotion to the church over self respect, self acceptance, and self love. This was great!
Lena didn't even confess. She's more quiet. Sal spoke for both of them. Lena should be able to think for herself before making confessions as you call it.
The second last section hit pretty hard, since I'm transgender and stuck living with an unaccepting family, I was raised in a cult-like community, and have had to put my transition on hold for the sake of keeping the "peace". It's exhausting not being true to myself for the benefit of other people. Ironically, I can tell my parents aren't happy either, because they firmly believe that life is about making sacrifices and doing what's "right" at the cost of themselves. Although I've never been Mormon, Mormon Stories has been helping me unpack a lot of struggles I grew up with. I really appreciate what Mormon Stories is doing, it's not only helping ex Mormons but anyone coming from religions they've felt trapped in. Thank you for sharing the story of this amazing couple.
Thank you for sharing your story ❤❤ I hope things get better for you. You deserve a life surrounded with people who you love and who love you, and with whom you can be yourself authentically. ❤❤❤
I can’t get over my curiosity about whatever is muted at about 43:25. Looks like Lena just says ‘thanks Babe.’ Great episode.
Absolutely BEAUTIFUL in every way. Thank you all for your honesty and vulnerability. John, thank you for sharing Gina’s story. Four incredible humans on this very special podcast.
What a story, so eloquent. What a love story, amazing. Astonishing how peoples gay or lesbian feelings, can stay dormant for a long time with out them knowing it. Such beautiful person's Lena and Sal. I can only wish them happiness. There must be other women or men out their who might be similar who do not know they are gay or lesbian. These can be leaders in the church, yet the LDS church treats the LGBT community badly.
@@deebee2603 `Yes! I think it is human instinct to love another person regardless of gender.
Came to TH-cam from the audio Podcast so I could see the magnetism. Congrats to these two for making difficult decisions, finding one another and living their truth!
I feel like this episode was made for me. Thank you so so so much for having the hard conversations so that we can grow as a community. Peace and love 🤟
Wow. That’s such a powerful short story, John. Thanks for sharing that with us.
The thing I was most concerned about in this story was cheating. Cheating is devastating to the partner.
The second most thing I was concerned about was the children because children that grow up in a single parent home are at a severe disadvantage to other children, but these two in sharing their story there is really nothing wrong with their actions and choices based on what they shared with us.
It would be nice to hear from the husbands to see their point of view and how it unfolded from their side, but these two have shared a genuine, loving, and beautiful story.
I don't agree with 99 percent of these comments. I just don't. But I'm glad I listened and I'm thankful as an ex mormon to mormon stories podcast. Everybody's stories deserve to be heard. ❤
Thank you so much for this! What a beautiful story. Sal and Lena are truly two of the most authentic souls. I love their love. ❤️
What I would say to your sister and to people who are asking those questions, sometimes you have to be selfish in order to be selfless.
One of my favorite episodes John, appreciate your work and the stories you’re sharing :)
I am not/have never been Mormon (or any religion) but this was such a great story of just being human!
I watched her parents podcast first and saw how happy her parents were, it was life-changing! ❤❤🎉
Wishing Sal and Lena soooo many happy years together ❤💛💗
This is the most beautiful story EVER.
Why do you say that when they hurt their spouses and had affairs whether it's emotional or not? That isn't okay, but I guess if one sex cheats then you find it fine. Please do better!
Thanks John for sharing. It's just unbelievable that some people can sacrifice so much but you owe it to yourself to be happy. What is more heartbreaking is people who live in denial their entire life. My heart is broken for those that never come out because of fear or religion. They will never know the love that Sal and Lena now have found. Everyone has a right to be themselves and be authentic. What is so strange is how people think it's a choice. No one would choose to have so many leave or hate you. When you are about to die you will smile and you will NOT regret dying because you will know you lived a true and authentic life.
My Great-Great Grandmother was widowed after her husband became sick while guarding the bodies of Joseph and Hyrum Smith in Nauvoo and died two weeks later. She was sealed to Dr.Bernhisel soon after, along with five other "women" on the same day. The good doctor was 46 years old, a lifelong bachelor and residing in Joseph's Smith's home. When I think of Joseph Smith's polygamy I also think of this doctor. I have to wonder what else was going on in that home? This relationship and family history re- Joseph Smith trouble me still. He neglected all of the wives except for his favorite, the 15 year old. He had been married to her mother as well. My GGGrandma did have a baby with him in Winters Quarters but was otherwise miserable. Wilford Woodruff approved her divorce years after her death.
It’s really tragic that there is only so much room on the MSP website for the top 25/100 podcasts. Every time I hear a good one it pushes another one down the list that is really good.
This is one of the best as well. These two tell a beautiful story and I am extremely happy for them that they found their authentic selfs and can live as they would enjoy.
I think Lena and Sal's love story should be heard far and wide - hopefully you will have many followers and supporters.
I’m an ex Christian and I absolutely love this interview. I’m a boring straight lady, but I absolutely loved getting a glimpse into this very real and beautiful lesbian relationship without all the stereotypes that comes along with tv and movies. Very happy for you two and I hope and pray every day people will feel strong enough to exit their religion boxes and just go be what they came here to be on Earth… free to just be you and me.
"Are we gonna kiss? Mind blown emoji." Loved it!!
This love has just made me believe in love again. I can’t imagine anyone stopping these two. You are magnificent
Beautiful epic episode. One of the many high points was John singing Til There Was You.
I love this story. Being your self and knowing who we really are and feel free is so hard but once we reached so fully.
I love this podcast. Even though I'm not Mormon or ever was, there's so many things that I can relate as an ex-christian. Sometimes it's hard to believe that you can be spiritual without religion, but I learned I can and now I'm happy. I would love my family to hear these testimonies, but they don't know English 😢 does someone know where or how can I start with this kind of information or podcasts but in Spanish?
thanks for the stories !
John your pod casts are so powerful. The ladies are fantastic. Poor Sal has lived so much of her life repressed. Lena also was so brave. You need to be your authentic self. I become so angry when people call it a "lifestyle" and believe it is a choice. Your sexuality is like the color of your eyes or your skin color. You can't change it. I do feel sympathy for the husbands but they can clearly see that what you did was not intentional you both did not know. So glad it all worked out.
Also wanted to add how much I enjoy Carah on the show - she & John have a terrific on-air symmetry when interviewing people. I didn't know that Carah was incredibly conservative before. I'm now looking up Carah's story so I can get up to speed on all that!
Holy cow what a great episode!! I absolutely loved watching thier story and wish everybody all the happiness in the world 🌎 ❤
An amazing interview. It is an ‘and’. It also released your husbands to find fulfilling relationships that they also did not have. You are amazing that your marriages were so successful and I can see nothing but huge pluses for all the children having this huge blended family full of love.
Thank you Leaa and Sal for sharing your story. You are such a beautiful, authentic, loving, kind, and amazing couple. I'm so glad you both followed your inner voices and had the strength to be authentic to yourselves. Your children are so blessed to be in such a loving and devoted family. I send love and best wishes to you both and your family. I also enjoyed Kara and John's comments. John thank you for sharing your sister's story. Very powerful.
Etherically altering interviews❣️❣️❣️THANK YOU, Lena & Sal. ❤️💫
Major takeaways, “I have one wild and precious life” (brought a few tears).
And, “We NEED healers.” Shared this with a friend who is studying to create her own yoga practice because wow that gave me such warm fuzzy feelings.
Loved loved LOVED this episode. Thank you for sharing, both to Sal and Lena, and also John. Hoping Mormon stories has more lesbians on very soon 🥰 shout out to John’s commitment to diverse representation. Learning about asexuality from Maven’s story was so enlightening-and I’m a progressive Gen Z (cusp of millennial to be fair haha)!
Also, whoever is leaving because of Kara… I’d just like to “talk”… I’m bummed when she’s gone (but love love love Jen, Sam, Margie, and ESPECIALLY Gerardo-GIVE US MORE GERARDO!!!!!!!)
Thank you all for your courage and truth. 🙋♀️
I totally see the love language between Sal and Lena. You can can see that they are so in love with each other. I am so glad that they found each other!!!!!!
What a beautiful story. Thank you all for sharing 💙
A very inspiring story. I believe that the fact the children are all so young as these family changes take place is a blessing. Older children trained in the bias of the church would more likely struggle. Best wishes for a wonderful, meaningful life!
I literally gasped and started crying when Sal mentioned that her brother called her to say he wanted to go to Pride. How beautiful
Thanks so much for sharing your story. As a former wife, current mother, friend and ally of beautiful LGBTQIA+ people, it is so encouraging to see that you have found a space of love and peace. As for folks who have unkind things to say...remember that is about them, not you. I think of the scripture which says that "inasmuch as ye have done it unto the least of these...ye have done it unto me". We are to love one another...period.
Wow! "Courage can feel like lonely clarity". BINGO!!!
Thank you Sal, Lena, John, and Cara. This is a great 2-episode series. Life is not easy (even for those who, from the outside seem to lead charmed lives), and being outside the "norm" in any significant way adds additional layers of problems to deal with. No one welcomes extra adjustments and problems, but trade-offs do exist and this show covers the some of the harm that comes from the thoughtlessness of the rigidity of other people extremely well. Keep up the good work.
Oh my gosh, this part of the interview has me grinning so hard. Aaaaaaww. 😊😊😊 I just can’t wait to have this too❤
That story about your sister really resonated with me. I married a non-member and for a few years I wrestled with thoughts that I made a mistake. Not because of his character, he is an amazing person, but because I didn’t have an eternal marriage. He was always supportive of my faith though and ok with our kids being raised Mormon and me paying tithing, wearing garments, etc. I never thought I would be “re-assigned” to a new husband but I had faith that it would work itself out after death and hope that he would be converted after death. Now that I’m out of the church I feel so lucky to have my husband and the life I chose. My faith transition was so much easier than a lot of people who are at odds with their still-believing spouse. Now I see that my feelings of regret were self imposed due to the teachings of the church and not because I made a poor choice in spouse. I’m so sorry your sister went to her grave still regretting her choice.
their story is so beautiful & is so humbling :’) i’m only 20 & been out for 8 yrs now holy crap, it’s insane how polar opposite our stories are yet i can still relate. what sal said about not having to explain herself to anyone is so powerful to me, it’s awful she felt that bc she couldn’t handle more trauma that i can’t imagine. but i will say, being out young & caring so deeply what ppl thought was its own trauma. i’m eternally grateful for that in an odd way, bc at my young age i truly never need anyone else to validate or even accept my identity. no matter what situation you came out in, it’s always such a brave choice. the queer experience is so varied yet intertwined, it’s fascinating.
I love love love this episode! So validating
Glennon and Abby have said they want to have double dates on their podcast and I hope these two get to go on and do that! That would be a great double date.
Wow, a very powerful love story. So pleased that Sal and Lena discovered their identity and are able to live their reality. I need to watch again as I fell asleep listening and didn’t hear how things worked out for Shane and Paul but I hope they both found contentment and joy in their lives. Thanks so much for sharing.
I listened and watched for the entire six hrs. What a beautiful and inspiring story. Thank you Len and Sal 💜💚
The Tom Phillips episode is the one that broke my shelf as well!!! I had been tip toeing away but when I heard his story, I thought “If someone who has their Calling and election made sure can just walk away, there is something I need to look into.”
What a beautiful love story... Discovery of each other and the journey to true self.
Beautiful story! May your love be everlasting ♥️
Family is people an family is love that’s a family love is love. Nothing is stronger then love.
Thank you for sharing your powerful story. Love is so much easier to feel and share when it is not filtered through God.
I feel like....after 6 hrs together.....I should also be invited to this amazing event! Lol!!!
I am so grateful to Lena and Sal as well as Cara and John for putting together such a wonderful few podcasts around these two lovely ladies in their stories.❤❤❤❤
This had me crying so many times. The live these two beautiful humans share is so rare. So deep. This is incredible. Really made me think about myself and my own marriage. Thank you for telling your beautiful story.🏳️🌈🤍🏳️🌈🤍🏳️🌈
Kids adapt. The hardest is probably for the spouse who is left. This happened to a close friend of my mom’s. He actually knew from a young age that he was gay, but it was not acceptable in society at that time, or his family or his church who he worked for (non Mormon). This was back in the late 70s-early 80s. He came out at age 59, after being married for 35 years and raising three kids. His wife was devastated. So it does a huge disservice to people everywhere when their religion pathologies homosexuality. Not all, but many more people would be able to come out before getting married….and thus avoid breaking the hearts of unknowing spouses.
Especially when you know that spouse deserves someone who loves them for all that they are
I am so happy you found each other. Anyone who has felt love like this can't deny it in others. Sexuality is a spectrum. Gender is a spectrum. You shouldn't have to make yourself small to fit in other people's boxes. If G-d's love feels like shame, hate, or patriarchal control I don't want it. Love is love.
Irregardless isn't a word. It's 'regardless'. Sorry, stupid pet peeve. Now that I've vented, thank you for sharing your stories!
A truly beautiful story! ❤️❤️❤️
Loved this series! Thanks for sharing your story!
You should always choose truth over a lie. This was such a beautiful story.
“Kind of being super bored.” 💀 So true. Love this episode.
I'm a hour into this part, and I adore these two more then the 1st one, these two DEFINE ADORABLE! like they are so cute ! I freaking cannot deal with it lol. I absolutely love their chemistry, its beautiful, kinda gives me some hope that love is truly out there :) Beautiful Couple, and wonderful humans period, I sincerely hope these two are happy
I loooove their story! Gives me so much hope! They are adorable!!!!
I think they're very cute! But I can't help feeling bad for their previous husbands (I dont blame Lena and Sal-it's the system) I hope they're doing okay.
I would love to hear a Mormon story about how people broke the news to their children and how they phased them out or handled all of their questions. I fully support everyone leaving, I’m just curious about how you raise children fundamentally and then it takes you months to come to the “end” (your exit from the church) of your faith crisis and realize you’re done and they can’t really conceptualize what you’ve been going through for months.
We told our kids that it was just like finding out Santa clause wasn’t real, but for adults. We told them stories they could understand like that Joseph translated the BOM with a rock and a hat and that as adults we hadn’t heard that before. They asked how we knew that the story of the rock and the hat was real and we showed them the sources and the church website. My kids were 11, 9, 6 and 3 when my husband and I left the church. We have had so many conversations since and it’s really beautiful. Some of my kids expressed that they were excited because church was boring and my oldest said she never believed the stories told in Sunday school.
Lena, like, like, like, like...you sound like a valley girl. Please stop!
mormonfaithcrisis.com deals a lot with this.
I didn’t notice her saying ”like,” but California is part of her heritage, her individuality. She says “fer sure,” which is adorable.
Thank you so much for your beautiful story, it was hopeful, inspiring, and touching
Two things: (1) either Sal or Lena mentioned seeing a therapist who wanted to make sure she wasn’t going through a “phase” by running to the woman she loves. How can a therapist think this was a phase? I can understand a therapist saying that to a spouse who was having an affair/fling with someone much younger person but this was two women who had surpassed their sexuality because of a high demand religion. It is a reality check and not a “phase”….in my opinion. (2) I am always amazed at the sheer number of people I have come across who have spent a life time suppressing their feelings for someone of the same sex. In my experiences it seems to be more women who have done this. I just can’t imagine being “forced” to be married to someone you are not attracted to.