Salamat Ali Khan: Life and Music Interview to Satyasheel Deshpande | Samvaad Foundation |1980s
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 พ.ย. 2024
- This interview of Salamat Ali Khan (December 12, 1934 - July 11, 2001) with Satyasheel Deshpande for the Samvaad Foundation, sometime in the 1980s, is one for the ages.
It should be noted that while Nazakat and Salamat Ali Khan totally captivated Indian audiences ever since they started touring the country in the mid-1950s, their visits stopped after the 1965 hostilities and then the eventual war with Pakistan. This interview was clearly one such visit in the 1980s when he returned after the 1971 war's memories had receded and the two countries restarted efforts to normalise relations, with Cricket matches and such exchanges.
Salamat Ali Khan is delightful and far more forthcoming here about his early influences than in his Lok Virsa interview.
At the outset, he apologises for his Punjabi-inflected Urdu. He is not falsely modest or coy. Among other things, he talks about his childhood in the 1930s and 1940s, and the lasting influence of the great Rajab Ali Khan (who scoffed at everyone: Wahid Khan? Singer? "Arre hataao, woh to sarangiya hai, gavaiyya nahii hai.") with whom, as a 10-year-old, he spent three months in Gwalior (Nazakat and Salamat Ali were invited to Gwalior by Krishnarao Shankar Pandit).
He talks about his father's early demise, and the turmoil after Partition and how they moved first to Lahore and then to Multan. About how he and elder brother Nazakat - "Shaam Chaurasi ke do munDe" - fashioned their singing style after Partition, modelling themselves after greats like Ashiq Ali Khan, Tawaqqal Khan and Bade Ghulam Ali Khan by merely listening to them. Essentially, they taught themselves and their style evolved as they consciously wanted to present a style different from that of the big names who were popular at that time in Pakistan.
He talks about how learning to sing Kafis in Multan proved to be the turning point that got them noticed and on to Pakistan Radio, which made people in India realise that the Shaam Chaurasi duo had now grown up to become established singers (and that rumours of their death during Partition riots had indeed been exaggerated).
Since Pakistan Radio was followed in India, their performances got them (once again) invited to Harballabh Sangeet Sammelan in 1953, and again in 1955 where they sang Miyan ki Malhaar for over 3 hours and came to Ravi Shankar's notice, whom Salamat Ali Khan credits for all later fame, as Shankar invited them first to perform in Delhi (Constitution Club) and later to Calcutta.
He also talks at some length about Bade Ghulam Ali Khan. The big man heard them sing as grownup adults for the first time in Delhi, he says, and was not happy with their arrival in India (suggests that he saw it as an encroachment on his turf). "Par maine parvaah nahiij kii (I did not bother)," he says, for the brothers knew that India was where they would find a discerning audience for classical singing, and not in Pakistan.
BGAK, he says, was so upset at their participation in the All India Music Conference in Calcutta that he decided to back out. He asked for too high a fee for attending, SAK says, and the organisers begged off, saying they could not afford it.
BGAK may not have participated, but all the other greats were present at Calcutta: Amir Khan, Kesarbai (Kerkar), Mogubai (Kurdikar), Gangubai (Hangal), Hirabai (Barodekar), Ravi Shankar, AAK, Vilayat Khan, Hafiz Ali Khan. Young Bhimsen and Kumar Gandharva. This was the year DV Paluskar had passed away, as Salamat Ali Khan remembers his photograph on the stage.
They won over the Calcutta audience. They had arrived. Calcutta became an annual fixture where they would spend about two and a half months each year between 1955-1965. There isn't a more appreciative audience than in Calcutta, he says. But the 1965 war ensured they would be barred from visiting till 1980, but it made them look for other avenues - travelling to Europe and the USA. In 1969, he and Nazakat appeared at the Edinburgh Festival, leading him to earn international recognition
In sum, SAK thanks Ravi Shankar for their success. Says it was after their recognition and fame in India - mentions their photos being published in popular film magazines Filmfare, Cine Blitz and Shama - that their popularity spread in Pakistan, where till then BGAK was still the big name at that time. And then to Afghanistan, Nepal and, later, Bangladesh, and eventually beyond South Asia.
Despite BGAK's "dushmani" (enmity), SAK praises him. Says BGAK and Amir Khan were the two singers he enjoyed listening to. When asked about the difference between BGAK's recorded and real voice, says some of the miiThaapan (sweetness) in his voice was not captured in that time's primitive recording tech.
Deshpande mentions that [Prof BR] Deodhar told him that BGAK would often say that those who can't sing Thumri, can't sing Khayal. SAK says that Amir Khan told him, "Bhai Ghulam Ali thumri jaise gaate hain, ham se gaayii nahii gayii".
Contd. in the comments section.
Khoobsurat interview. Maaza aa gaya.
What a confident person.... He spoke well of almost everyone, even his contemporaries. He was a great vocalist.
Bhttt khoob Interview❤
CONTD FROM DESCRIPTION
When talking about the state of Indian classical music, he says, "हमारे पंजाब में कहावत है," he says. "गाना पंजाब में जवान था, ग्वालियर में बूढा हो गया और महाराष्ट्र में उसकी हड्डी पसली रह गयी" "There is a saying in Punjab: the song spent its youth in Punjab, grew old in Gwalior and in Maharashtra, it is left with its bones and ribs."
The real high point in the interview is at about the 1hr:16mts mark when Deshpande gets a rise out of him by saying that some say "kaa Karuun Sajnii and Yaad Piyaa kii aaye are geets and not thumris," that Punjabis can't sing thumri, and that it is only sung in Banaras.
तनक़ीद भी जायज़ होनी चाहिए, नाजायज़ नही, he adds. Even criticism should be fair, and not unfair. [It might be interesting in this regard to Kesarbai Kerkar's sark for example, in her Hyderabad concert about those who only seem to be pining for their sajni: जितने भी गव्वैये आते हैं वो क्या कह के जाते हैं... कि...क्या करूँ सजनी - तो सजनी के नाम से वो रोते है, और तो कुछ जानते नहीं हैं." th-cam.com/video/iWOiMp-jMKo/w-d-xo.html at about the 45-second mark]
Thumri's evolution has made it more refined, he says. He demonstrates it by singing the Banaras thumri - Baajuu band - then sings like BGAK and Barkat Ali. Says people who can't sing it like them are the ones complaining. People travelled first by bullock carts, then cars, then early aeroplanes, now in Jumbo Jets. Would you say jumbo jets should be abandoned and we should go back to early planes?
Can you compare Akhtari Begum with Lata Mangeshkar? Begum Akhtar would take one and a half hours to sing a ghazal and Lata kills people in a three-minute song. Would you say Lata is not a great singer?
This is a supremely enjoyable - and edifying - interview.
***
I had been sharing this interview of Salamat Ali Khan far and wide and thought of sharing it on his death anniversary yesterday. I find that the first part has gone missing from NCAA website and also from archives.org, and in its place only the second part of 8.52 mts has been repeated twice, where it has been labelled as Interview of Ustad Salamat Ali Khan and Ustad Sharafat Ali Khan (Vol. II)", with what is now being called being repeated. I am glad I downloaded the interview when I did and also that others have already shared it on YT.
While the idea behind a National Cultural Audiovisual Archives is commendable, what is missing is rigour in proper labelling, transparency and accountability.
One can only hope that Part I will be restored to the website and also on archives.org.
th-cam.com/play/PLMYQ2DE1_LdbKcuIw7va_hBuLbqGQOlo.html
Thank you for the upload & your insightful views. Very very noteworthy.
Thumari k concept mein bhtt ashi baat ki
Ek ustad Bde Gulam Ali g se miln ki bat b bhttt ashi lgi gana ek taraf nature ek taraf
apke detailed comments .....speechless. Thanks
🙏
My other question is that salamat sahab mentioned death of his father while he was still a child. then who taught salamat sahab later??
If you listen to the interview, or read the description, he addresses the question very clearly where he mentions that the brothers did not have any other ustad after their father's death but that they learnt by modelling themselves after greats like Ashiq Ali Khan, Tawaqqal Khan and Bade Ghulam Ali Khan by merely listening to them. Essentially, they taught themselves and their style evolved as they consciously wanted to present a different style from the big names who were popular at that time in Pakistan.
He learnt from many ustaads including Ustad Fateh Ali Khan (Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan's Father). He would often visit him and learn different raags and bandish from him.
th-cam.com/video/95fRq8lW_sE/w-d-xo.html
Why bgak was upset with them l wonder?.....it is not that india does not have other classical singers other than bgak.....so why enimity towards salamat sahab??there must be a strong reason
He clearly alludes to the reasons in the interview. BGAK was the reigning celebrity in the HCM universe when the Ali brothers showed up on the scene. The great man felt insecure, evidently.
Amit Choudhury recounts a conversation with A Kanan:
scroll.in/article/962117/recordings-by-vocalist-salamat-ali-khan-remind-us-how-precise-and-beautiful-the-unimaginable-can-be
//
I remember having conversations with A Kanan in the 1990s about musicians we admired. This was at a time when I’d make weekly visits to his house in the expansive ITC Sangeet Research Academy properties, and he’d pass on traditional khayal compositions to me.I brought up the brothers Nazakat Ali (1928-’84) and Salamat Ali Khan (1934-2001) during one of these exchanges, and A Kanan recounted a story about when he’d gone to visit Bade Ghulam Ali Khan at a time when the musician was presumably living in Park Circus in Calcutta. He portrayed the Khan as an innocent, as great artists can be, grumbling to him about this upstart duo from Pakistan - the younger brother, Salamat, especially - about whom extraordinary claims were being made. “Who are they?” he asked A Kanan. “Is he really that good?”A Kanan had to reassure him that he wasn’t. Bade Ghulam Ali had a specific status in India, as the khayal’s greatest virtuoso, and it was Salamat Ali’s virtuosity that had prompted that second question.
//
Depending on one's inclinations, anecdotes can of course be pulled out to show one against the other. BGAK himself faced enough hostility from the divas he left behind in his rise to the top.
Kesarbai's pronouncements about him leave no scope for any confusion about what she thought of him, for example. Likewise, no dearth of those who detest Salamat-Nazakat style of singing and consider them an abomination, or upstarts, just as there are many who seem to worship the ground they walked on.
th-cam.com/video/d4PMDJYguJA/w-d-xo.html
@@SundeepDougal yeah I have read this article ....it's interesting that salamat sahab gives only a hint and do not talk about his experience with bgak in detail ....he clearly respected bgak that's why he do not want to give air to the debate ....however I wonder why he is not mentioned in india whenever the classical legends are talked about....he seems to be forgotten....this saddens me.
The thing called civility and not speaking ill of the dead, I would imagine. The thing to remember is that this is many years after BGAK's demise. Time is a great healer. In earlier times, there are accounts where he is supposed to have shared what he felt, and it was not this adulatory, evidently. Anyway, I wouldn't really want to pop-psychologise either of the two.
There is a autobiography book written on salamat sahab, I believe.can you tell me the name of the book and also from where can I get it?
His autobiography is not in print, from what I know. Might be available somewhere in libraries or second hand book shops in Pakistan somewhere. It's in Urdu and is titled 'maeN aur merii mausiiquii'.