Fun fact: it cannot be used under certain circumstances since the consequences are just too inconvenient for the game state to allow. "The card's ability has errata so you can't activate the ability during casting of a spell or activating of an ability. This prevents you from getting into a position where someone paying 1 could stop you from having enough mana to pay for the spell. If you want to use it pay for a spell or ability, you need to use this card before you start the casting or activating."
I think in 3-colors I'll still play them because it's still a great option if you actually don't want to run too many taplands. The main downsides against surveil-lands for ME are basically: 1. I'd need to run 2 or 3 of the surveil lands to fetch the right one and while triomes are also expensive, it's ony one expensive triome vs 2-3 expensive surveil lands. 2. having to run 2-3 increases the amounts of taplands in the list. (you can basically just run the one triome as your only tapped fetch target + shocklands to reduce those feelbads when you really need a landdrop only to draw into a tap land.) Obviously the surveillands are all-stars anyway and it's more a question of which cards do you already have, what is your budget etc. In my Necrobloom Landfall deck I'm definetly running all three surveil lands for abzan. In 5 colors, none of them really make the cut for me anymore, not because it's bad but because it's too expensive. I love my Ur-Dragon deck but I can't have it hogging 25+ fetches/shocks/triomes/battlebond lands etc. and I'm better off just running a bunch of cheaper green/x duals + green ramp + 5-color lands (city of brass, command tower, exotic orchard etc.)
@@ghostkill221 I think you have a point with fetchlands in casual being a bit of an indicator for a higher power level deck but I honestly don't see the connection to your first claim. Why are triomes straight up better than surveil lands in casual? Both can be fetched with farseek, nature's lore (if part forest) or fetchlands in general. Surveil lands fix slightly less but 90% of the time, all you need is that one extra color, not all three. But if you're not making use of the fact that they have basic land types, then you might as well play the Alara-Trilands over the Triomes as they're like half a buck at most vs 10+ bucks for any given triome. -> don't play triomes OR surveilland OR shocks in your casual lists. You need pretty specific green ramp or, well, fetchlands to make use of either Triomes' or surveil lands' basic land type to be able to reliable fetch them out of your deck. If you can't then theres' almost zero reason to play expensive triomes. But when you draw into a surveil land, it will still always surveil 1, whereas a tapped triome could have been basically any other multicolor tapland in your deck. So surveil lands, just like the scrylands are, in a sense kind of better in casual decks (without fetchlands). But also I think you just generally increase the bang for your buck if you can consistently fetch into your expensive lands. Like, in a 99 singleton deck if you just naturally want to draw into either land (triomes, shocks or surveil) they show up way less and so their impact on your overall deck performance is diminished. These lands are often more expensive than the fetchlands that enable you to see them almost every game and I'm convinced fetchlands should be your priority whenever you're looking to upgrade your manabase. Like the blue white fetchland flooded strand is about 8-10 bucks on Cardmarket in Europe, while the corresponding surveilland starts at about 14 bucks. The dimir suveil land is like 25 bucks now, polluted delta is 12+ bucks. Whenever fetch lands are reprinted, if you're "serious" about magic and have been playiyng for a long time (I've been playing for a bit over 20 years now) then you should just try to get a few. I'm at a point, where I have about a playset of each fetchlands to be able to put them into a variety of decks. So now when I DO get a more expensive triome, surveil land or shockland, I have a much higher chances of seeing them. Overall it just makes my decks run smoother. But I still don't run Sol-Ring in 95% of my decks, I refuse to run infinite combos, I despise "auto-includes" like Rhystic Study (I own five of them from back in the day) because I'd rather run cards that synnergize in some way with my chosen theme. So often times, my deck IS a 7 (a 7 isn't "weak" by the way, there's six whole numbers under that and a ton of precons are like a 3 or 4 powerwise, otherwise, what use are these numbers?)
I've always like Grand Coliseum. Sure its a tap land but it taps for any color afterwards with no restriction. And it has the added benefit of tapping for colorless so you don't have to ping yourself every time. Sure, its becoming harder and harder to find a place for tap lands but in a five color deck without the shocks and fetches, i think it's pretty good. It desperately needs a reprint
12:39 are you kidding me these are absolutely better than Fetches for landfall decks. Not only are they free they can search a land even when they enter tapped. Which makes them a turn faster than evolving wilds or a fetch land.
It's funny you hit all the reasons to use Lotus Field besides the primary reasons I do: non-green white catch-up ramp and recursion interactions. Feels great to Brought Back the two lands, but even just a Sun Titan is a reason to consider it. And if playing catch up ramp package it's an S-tier card even in mono white. Definitely not an every deck card, but incredible support for a number of strategies.
I play cactus preserve in Ur-Dragon. It's so good. Someone Boardwipes my dragons, my turn, pay 3 mana attack for 9 damage. Don't mind if I do. I've once even attacked on my turn 3 for 9 damage because I had no other turn 3 play (after turn 2 ramp). 9 damage this early is no joke. Even if they have a creature out it's not going to beat a 9/9 so now they have to make a choice if they want to take 9 or chump block with their llanowar elves or other utility creature. Oh and obviously it can make any mana if your other mana-fixing is up to snuff. Really helps with casting tripple-red, double blue, double white dragons etc. People are SLEEPING on cactus preserve. I'll happily play it in mono-green alongside Ghalta. 12/12 manland for 3 mana? ARE YOU KIDDING?
I kept having to remind myself that this list is focusing on colors.... Cuz seeing a list with Myriad landscape in a higher tier than Three Tree City is WILD. 😂
Having the correct mana-base for your deck is soooo crucial in any format. In EDH we have sooooo many options that choosing the correct ones for your deck specifically really will have a huge impact on your deck. All these cards you call C's are sooooo good in the decks that can abuse their specific characteristics. This sort of list really has trouble with that, really needed a special category rather than calling these cards a C! Didnt know about Horizon of Progress though...damn that is a card, S+ for sure.
Myriad Landscape is good in Vadrik so you can pass holding up instant interaction to makenit night, and if no one does anything worth getting rid of you ramp in the preceeding end step.
Myriad Lanscaoe also works with Wild Growth, Llanowar Elves and any other turn-1 ramp. Now you can easily just ramp turn 2. And outside green (or sol-ring, manacrypt, moxen etc. but who is playing fast mana and this...) it's still non-rock-ramp, which just is hard to come by. Like, Maybe don't play this in mono-white, which has SOME good options with their catch up ramp. But Mono-Black with cabal coffers is probably happily going to play this.
The New Capenna fetches are only 5 for the 5 shards, there aren't wedges equivalent yet. I play 3 of them in my Baylen, the Haymaker deck. The Naya one which can fetch any of my basics, the Jund one which can fetch a mountain or forest, and the Bant one which can fetch a forest or plains. I could run the other 2 but at that point it's just another plains or mountain that always enters tapped.
Yeah, I'm waiting for them to be completed. It's not the end of the world for my abzan landfall deck but I'd like to run an actual abzan-wedge capenna fetch.
idk about cavern being a baseline, with the amount of bounce or exile effects on the stack, the uncounterability clause is less useful. Like in 3 colors running a colorless source for 90 cards is fine, tribal is better ofc. But in 5c? you need to be heavy tribal, probably 25+ of the type, to afford a colorless land on your ramp and all that. Also is probably near the top of the strip mine list, after field and chasm imo. I think its mid b, max low a. Theres just too many cards that get around the clause that are growing in popularity. The one clause i see in 4+ c decks is at least it gives your must kill commanders some protection on the stack.
it always kinda feels bad though because nature's lore, three visits and skyshroud claim specifically let you play the forests untapped, so to then get a triome sometimes feels like a bit of a waste. Obviously depends on the deck but if it's turn 2 and I have another 1-drop, I'll rather get a shock-land. But it's obviously nice to have the choice of getting a triome, if you can't spend 1 mana anyway.
I feel like Gemstone Caverns caught too much flack. At worst it’s an untapped colorless land. Which in low color decks especially is pretty negligible. I get that it’s card disadvantage but if you use it to drop an early advantage engine or your commander does that for your then I feel like it’s a free roll.
Yeah, unless a late drawn colorless land in your deck is somehow a dealbreaker (e.g. you're playing a ton of cheap cards and barely have any colorless pips in your spells) it's close to an auto-include. But I'll never find out whether or not I'm just being completely crazy because it's just a bit too pricey of a card. At 30€ in europe (cardmarket) there's too many other lands or just cards in general that I'd be spending money on before I get a real urge to buy this.
The last for the year!! Amazing content guys. Looking forward to 2025!!
I wanna put rhystic cave in a white blue deck just to see everyone's reaction
Fun fact: it cannot be used under certain circumstances since the consequences are just too inconvenient for the game state to allow.
"The card's ability has errata so you can't activate the ability during casting of a spell or activating of an ability. This prevents you from getting into a position where someone paying 1 could stop you from having enough mana to pay for the spell. If you want to use it pay for a spell or ability, you need to use this card before you start the casting or activating."
The surveil lands push the triomes out of most decks for me.
I think in 3-colors I'll still play them because it's still a great option if you actually don't want to run too many taplands.
The main downsides against surveil-lands for ME are basically:
1. I'd need to run 2 or 3 of the surveil lands to fetch the right one and while triomes are also expensive, it's ony one expensive triome vs 2-3 expensive surveil lands.
2. having to run 2-3 increases the amounts of taplands in the list. (you can basically just run the one triome as your only tapped fetch target + shocklands to reduce those feelbads when you really need a landdrop only to draw into a tap land.)
Obviously the surveillands are all-stars anyway and it's more a question of which cards do you already have, what is your budget etc. In my Necrobloom Landfall deck I'm definetly running all three surveil lands for abzan.
In 5 colors, none of them really make the cut for me anymore, not because it's bad but because it's too expensive. I love my Ur-Dragon deck but I can't have it hogging 25+ fetches/shocks/triomes/battlebond lands etc. and I'm better off just running a bunch of cheaper green/x duals + green ramp + 5-color lands (city of brass, command tower, exotic orchard etc.)
Triomes are straight up better in casual. Anyone dropping fetch is instant warning bells.
"my decks a 7" - first three lands they play are 100$
@@ghostkill221 I think you have a point with fetchlands in casual being a bit of an indicator for a higher power level deck but I honestly don't see the connection to your first claim.
Why are triomes straight up better than surveil lands in casual? Both can be fetched with farseek, nature's lore (if part forest) or fetchlands in general. Surveil lands fix slightly less but 90% of the time, all you need is that one extra color, not all three.
But if you're not making use of the fact that they have basic land types, then you might as well play the Alara-Trilands over the Triomes as they're like half a buck at most vs 10+ bucks for any given triome. -> don't play triomes OR surveilland OR shocks in your casual lists.
You need pretty specific green ramp or, well, fetchlands to make use of either Triomes' or surveil lands' basic land type to be able to reliable fetch them out of your deck. If you can't then theres' almost zero reason to play expensive triomes.
But when you draw into a surveil land, it will still always surveil 1, whereas a tapped triome could have been basically any other multicolor tapland in your deck. So surveil lands, just like the scrylands are, in a sense kind of better in casual decks (without fetchlands).
But also I think you just generally increase the bang for your buck if you can consistently fetch into your expensive lands. Like, in a 99 singleton deck if you just naturally want to draw into either land (triomes, shocks or surveil) they show up way less and so their impact on your overall deck performance is diminished. These lands are often more expensive than the fetchlands that enable you to see them almost every game and I'm convinced fetchlands should be your priority whenever you're looking to upgrade your manabase.
Like the blue white fetchland flooded strand is about 8-10 bucks on Cardmarket in Europe, while the corresponding surveilland starts at about 14 bucks. The dimir suveil land is like 25 bucks now, polluted delta is 12+ bucks.
Whenever fetch lands are reprinted, if you're "serious" about magic and have been playiyng for a long time (I've been playing for a bit over 20 years now) then you should just try to get a few. I'm at a point, where I have about a playset of each fetchlands to be able to put them into a variety of decks. So now when I DO get a more expensive triome, surveil land or shockland, I have a much higher chances of seeing them.
Overall it just makes my decks run smoother. But I still don't run Sol-Ring in 95% of my decks, I refuse to run infinite combos, I despise "auto-includes" like Rhystic Study (I own five of them from back in the day) because I'd rather run cards that synnergize in some way with my chosen theme. So often times, my deck IS a 7 (a 7 isn't "weak" by the way, there's six whole numbers under that and a ton of precons are like a 3 or 4 powerwise, otherwise, what use are these numbers?)
I've always like Grand Coliseum. Sure its a tap land but it taps for any color afterwards with no restriction. And it has the added benefit of tapping for colorless so you don't have to ping yourself every time. Sure, its becoming harder and harder to find a place for tap lands but in a five color deck without the shocks and fetches, i think it's pretty good. It desperately needs a reprint
12:39 are you kidding me these are absolutely better than Fetches for landfall decks. Not only are they free they can search a land even when they enter tapped. Which makes them a turn faster than evolving wilds or a fetch land.
It's funny you hit all the reasons to use Lotus Field besides the primary reasons I do: non-green white catch-up ramp and recursion interactions. Feels great to Brought Back the two lands, but even just a Sun Titan is a reason to consider it. And if playing catch up ramp package it's an S-tier card even in mono white.
Definitely not an every deck card, but incredible support for a number of strategies.
I play cactus preserve in Ur-Dragon. It's so good. Someone Boardwipes my dragons, my turn, pay 3 mana attack for 9 damage. Don't mind if I do.
I've once even attacked on my turn 3 for 9 damage because I had no other turn 3 play (after turn 2 ramp). 9 damage this early is no joke. Even if they have a creature out it's not going to beat a 9/9 so now they have to make a choice if they want to take 9 or chump block with their llanowar elves or other utility creature.
Oh and obviously it can make any mana if your other mana-fixing is up to snuff. Really helps with casting tripple-red, double blue, double white dragons etc.
People are SLEEPING on cactus preserve. I'll happily play it in mono-green alongside Ghalta. 12/12 manland for 3 mana? ARE YOU KIDDING?
I kept having to remind myself that this list is focusing on colors.... Cuz seeing a list with Myriad landscape in a higher tier than Three Tree City is WILD. 😂
Having the correct mana-base for your deck is soooo crucial in any format. In EDH we have sooooo many options that choosing the correct ones for your deck specifically really will have a huge impact on your deck. All these cards you call C's are sooooo good in the decks that can abuse their specific characteristics. This sort of list really has trouble with that, really needed a special category rather than calling these cards a C!
Didnt know about Horizon of Progress though...damn that is a card, S+ for sure.
11:30 not even kidding i was working on my korvold lands list when keltson said that, thats spooky timing 🤯
Myriad Landscape is good in Vadrik so you can pass holding up instant interaction to makenit night, and if no one does anything worth getting rid of you ramp in the preceeding end step.
Myriad Lanscaoe also works with Wild Growth, Llanowar Elves and any other turn-1 ramp. Now you can easily just ramp turn 2.
And outside green (or sol-ring, manacrypt, moxen etc. but who is playing fast mana and this...) it's still non-rock-ramp, which just is hard to come by. Like, Maybe don't play this in mono-white, which has SOME good options with their catch up ramp. But Mono-Black with cabal coffers is probably happily going to play this.
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The New Capenna fetches are only 5 for the 5 shards, there aren't wedges equivalent yet. I play 3 of them in my Baylen, the Haymaker deck. The Naya one which can fetch any of my basics, the Jund one which can fetch a mountain or forest, and the Bant one which can fetch a forest or plains. I could run the other 2 but at that point it's just another plains or mountain that always enters tapped.
Yeah, I'm waiting for them to be completed. It's not the end of the world for my abzan landfall deck but I'd like to run an actual abzan-wedge capenna fetch.
idk about cavern being a baseline, with the amount of bounce or exile effects on the stack, the uncounterability clause is less useful. Like in 3 colors running a colorless source for 90 cards is fine, tribal is better ofc. But in 5c? you need to be heavy tribal, probably 25+ of the type, to afford a colorless land on your ramp and all that. Also is probably near the top of the strip mine list, after field and chasm imo. I think its mid b, max low a. Theres just too many cards that get around the clause that are growing in popularity.
The one clause i see in 4+ c decks is at least it gives your must kill commanders some protection on the stack.
Hear me out: Rhystic caves in a blue deck to bluff counterspells to force opponents to pay the 1
The name of the game with lands these days is versatility. Horizon of Progress is better than Reflecting Pool methinks... But I haven't run it yet.
No love for Pillar of Paruns?
Forest triomes are best because you can nature’s lore and other nonbasic forest tutor for them
it always kinda feels bad though because nature's lore, three visits and skyshroud claim specifically let you play the forests untapped, so to then get a triome sometimes feels like a bit of a waste. Obviously depends on the deck but if it's turn 2 and I have another 1-drop, I'll rather get a shock-land.
But it's obviously nice to have the choice of getting a triome, if you can't spend 1 mana anyway.
I feel like Gemstone Caverns caught too much flack. At worst it’s an untapped colorless land. Which in low color decks especially is pretty negligible. I get that it’s card disadvantage but if you use it to drop an early advantage engine or your commander does that for your then I feel like it’s a free roll.
Yeah, unless a late drawn colorless land in your deck is somehow a dealbreaker (e.g. you're playing a ton of cheap cards and barely have any colorless pips in your spells) it's close to an auto-include. But I'll never find out whether or not I'm just being completely crazy because it's just a bit too pricey of a card. At 30€ in europe (cardmarket) there's too many other lands or just cards in general that I'd be spending money on before I get a real urge to buy this.
:)7