@James Brashears more than once, it's stated that the heart is treacherous. Leading with the flesh only takes you away from God and that is why we as Christians are told to lead with the spirit. We all have feelings and desires but that doesn't mean we should act on them. Shalom brother.
@May I halik you?: Insults? No, you cloud your own stupidity. You've proven nothing. You're argument begins with a foregone conclusion. You have no truth. You're guessing what 2000 year old fables from the middle east mean.
@Boom Bam: Really? Does your precious Bible predict 534,000 innocent people to suffer horribly and die from Covid 19. While an Almighty Powerful Loving God Silently & Invisibly stands by & watches? I predict more will die, so am I a God? Like .... so what man.... Get Real.
Correct. Same reason they dont preach that divorce is not allowed by God bc only death breaks the marital Covenant. AND, that remarriage after a divorce while the original Covenant spouse is still alive puts one into CONSTANT ADULTERY.
..and or they in it themselves. It's all fornication and adultery (some cases). The church will continue to struggle to have conviction and deliverance because we not addressing the real sexual issues on a spiritual level. Flee fornication is easy to say but can we expound on why. Amen Luie
To the people who think that being gay is a choice, does that mean when you were young you could have chosen to be gay if you wanted to? If you answer no to that question, why would you think that someone else could choose to be gay? I honestly don't know why I am gay, but I do know that it had nothing to do with how my parents raised me. I was nowhere near a "momma's boy". I was actually much closer to my dad and spent more time with him than I did with my mom, and he treated me just like any "normaI" dad would treat his son. I was raised exactly the same way and in the same house as my older brother, who turned out to be straight. And I was never sexually abused when I was a kid. I never even knew anyone who was gay until I was 17. Nothing about my childhood was abnormal or out of the ordinary. If it were as easy as just being a choice, I would have chosen to be straight a long time ago, because the discrimination and hatred that many gay people face has tormented me for most of my life. Because of that, I still haven't accepted myself for being gay, unfortunately, from the time I knew that I was different when I was 8-9 years old, all the way up until today. I thank God that there are caring people out there who support and understand the LGBTQ community.
@Viktor Petrov Sweetie, you're that troll using 4-5 burner troll accounts because you're embarrassed by your inability to defend your arguments. Everything you're prattling on about, you've already lost numerous times over, and you just keep repeating it. Why are you so obsessed with the attention of gay men, troll? Hmmm? Is it internalized homophobia because you're gay and this is the only way you can interact with gay men?
@Viktor Petrov so are you saying that if you wanted to, you could choose to turn gay and be sexually attracted to other men? Do you think you could ever be tempted and enjoy having sex with men, and have the desire for that kind of relationship? If you think that you could never have the desire to be with a man and enjoy having sex with men, that means that your sexual orientation probably isn't something you could ever change, no matter how badly you wanted to be gay. What do you think causes homosexuality? Like I said before in my comment above, I don't know what the cause was in my case. I have never really believed the argument that gay people are "born that way", but I am sure that your sexual orientation isn't fluid, and that it will never be possible for me to find women sexually attractive, even though I would give my right arm to be straight.
@Viktor Petrov "It's a choice. All sin is a choice." 1. There is no "sin". 2. Your silly list of rules has little to do with real morality. 3. Who you are attracted to and the strength of that attraction is the result of very complex biology and physiology and is NOT a choice of the individual.
@yellowleaf Ohhhh. Thank you for sharing that. I find myself getting caught up in the wordly ---can I say "crap?" Like you said, "built on sand." I appreciate your post. I hope you have a good, positive, productive day.
@yellowleaf I respect your search for truth and your study of the Bible. I am intrigued by the people who so adamantly refuse to believe. Like you, I pray for them, and hope they find some peace somewhere. I In your opinion, Yellowleaf, what makes some atheists so angry? Some atheists don't seem to even think about God and don't seem to care. It is the angry, vicious atheists who intrigue me. Why are they so angry about something in which they don't believe?
@@eric-qs8ii doesn't really matter. I'll know how he or she thinks even if I talk first because of this video. I can see where they come from and understand what they're saying.
Sorry but your bible based bigotry towards other people behavior that does not impact on you is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. I do not care what your bible says about anything, it is NOT a moral basis and your ignorance and judgemental attitude shows that with perfect clarity.
@Possum I am here calling out the BIGOTRY and IGNORANCE of this homophobia. I am calling it out this ignorance because I have seen first hand the suffering brought on by these holier than thou assholes talking about what they know nothing about. You have NO right to tell others how to live their lives.
Every one of my siblings and I were unable to form meaningful relationships due to watching the godly, toxic marriage of our parents who only stayed together because "god said so". Took years of therapy for us to learn what basic respect was in a relationship. Turned out we werent the only family in this situation. It was the common experience of the majority of kids we grew up with in our fundamentalist christian community that was unsurprisingly riddled with domestic violence and child abuse.
@@palatasikuntheyoutubecomme2046 i take it you didnt watch the video. Otherwise you would know why Jordi addressed what was discussed in the video....which wasn't just homosexuality.
Though i havent been able to accept homosexuality completely but if we go by the logic that marriage should be accredited by Society, there was a time when interracial marriage too was considered to be a sin.
Also, marriage wasn’t about love in ancient days; it was about biological heirs and economics. Marriage has changed and why is it that only Christians get to decide what it is and isn’t?
Here's a tip for you, (free, at no charge) homosexuality isn't wrong. Now with that out of the way you can get on with living your life and let others live theirs.
@@stopcensorship7705, _"there are well documented risks associated to such lifestyle."_ If you don't like the risks, then don't live the lifestyle (whatever "the lifestyle" is supposed to mean). No one is trying to force you to live such a lifestyle, are they?
@Darth Sidious, writes _"It [homosexuality] is wrong"_ If you feel that way then I recommend you not do it. But since other disagree with you and their actions don't affect you in any way what so ever, hows about you just leave them be?
GAY RIGHTS Also like stfu this comment section is anoyingggggg, Like im gonna go marry a man, and you all can go cry abt it. Also hello fellow gays in the comments, you aren't alone!
You dont 'have marriage', pagans married long before christianity or judaism or islam existed. Yes, pastors shouldn't be forced to marry gays or pagans, but they don't get to keep them from marrying through secular means. Marriage is human, you don't get a monopoly on it. This is what it's all about.
You’re honestly comparing pedophelia and incest with two gay adults loving each other? Shame on you. You have ZERO right to post videos and make yourself sound educated and reasonable when you make statements like this. Also, by your logic I’m assuming that neither of you ever have sex out of pleasure - only for purpose for reproduction?
Ghastly. A series of convoluted and fallacious claims aimed at justifying your intruding upon, judging, condemning and restricting other people's personhood, liberty and consensual relationships. In short, an argument for a theocratic dictatorship.
AcerMaple72 "Why should my religion dictate the lives of others?" Go tell that to the Right-Wing Conservatards. They want their interpretation of Christianity to dictate the lives of others and take away their first amendment rights (especially freedom of speech, freedom of choice, separation of "church" and state, freedom of and from religion, etc). I'm a Center-Left Christian, and I can tell you this, If the Right-Wing Conservatards had their way, society would regress back into the Dark Ages, and everyone except for the Right-Wing Fundies (non-Christian religious people, Atheists, progressive Christians, etc) would be jailed, beaten, tortured, killed, burned at the stake for questioning, disagreeing with, or rejecting Right-Wing FundaMENTAList ideology. They already started bringing fascism to America, taking people's basic rights away, and attempting to dictate the lives of others like banning sex education, birth control, safe and legal life-saving abortion for women who were abused by men and little girls who were abused by child predators, gay marriage, gay adoption, interracial marriage, medically assisted suicide for people who are in excruciating pain all the time and have very little to no quality of life, etc, etc. Your beliefs and you values are between you and Jesus/God, it's none of the Conservatives' business, so when they try to lecture you or try to force you to live by their messed up Right-Wing FundaMENTAList ideology, tell them to fuck off, that's what I do.
@Steve Roberts negative sir. God did not make a race of homosexuals. He created woman to be his helper as it was not good for man to be alone. Spin scripture any way you like, it is incorrect. I suppose you also believe in evolution as well? You cannot justify homosexuality, no matter how much you twist scripture, 2 men cannot created a child. Never have never will.
The question isn’t about marriage though, it’s “How can homosexuality be wrong if it doesn’t harm anyone” as a gay atheist who wouldn’t get married, you’ve just skimmed over the whole question by banging in about same sex marriage rather than the sexuality itself.
You are denying yourself a happy life, in love with somebody else, having a family, children to raise..because your faith makes you think you’re an abomination - you are not. You are loved and would still be loved for accepting yourself. You are enough, even without somebody else telling you that you are.
@@breakingboundaries3950 you don’t need a partner nor children to have a happiness. If they don’t want that, then they don’t have to. Not everyone desires a family or romantic relationships.
@@christworks3458 well of course if somebody doesn’t want that they shouldn’t feel pressured to, but neither should they be pressured not to do something they do want to do.
As a gay cancer patient, I have to ask what the hell makes Christian think they have the right to force gay people to live and die alone? I ask this because people with partners in cancer wards are more likely to survive than those who don’t have partners.
When the question is asked; "How can homosexuality be wrong if it doesn't harm anybody?" the argument is over. Morality is all about what helps or harms people. Homosexuality does not harm anyone. Therefore, there is nothing immoral about homosexuality.
That’s because Christians aren’t concern about it harming anybody. They are concern about them gambling with their souls when they receive the final judgment from God
@@heseesyou582 Wrong. Christians are simply concerned with asserting the primacy of their particular myth over all beings. It's a problem among the adherents of the Abrahamic myths. They all seem to think everyone else must follow it just as they do.
@@GavinAlexander. if you heard that Christians are suppose to make people believe in God, you heard wrong. Christians mission is to spread the gospel around the world. Christians will tell people what they are doing is wrong and a sin in Gods eyes. If the person or people don’t listen, then that’s their choice, God doesn’t force anybody to follow him so Christians should do the same.
@@heseesyou582 Your attempt at gaslighting is cute. This isn't about what I've heard. It's about the history of those who follow the Abrahamic myths. A history of a collection of people who, as Christopher Hitchens put it so well, all claim to have this belief that will bring about peace and happiness, yet cannot seem to be peaceful or happy unless everyone else believes it exactly as they do. If you believe this myth, it governs YOUR life alone. End of story.
As a atheist I cat help but laugh.... I don't have a shit if someone if gay or straight.. I'm not s pervert thinking of someone's sexual orientation all the time
There is no such thing as them and us. We are all sinners. The only thing saves us is blood of Jesus, covers all sinns. My God is strong fortress, I am safe in him.
@saint of jesus Christ a convenient way to dodge guilt and resist personal growth which is why christianity in its fundamental form is psychologically detrimental.
In this life, there is truth in alot of things but God is the Ultimate Truth. Let those who are without God be as liars because they Deny The Ultimate Truth. Because if you Deny the Truth, Your a liar. When we tell the Truth, We uphold it and Strengthen its Hold.
@@lionbolt2136 No, if you deny the truth, you are either ignorant or delusional. Which creationists often are. What's the ultimate truth? How do you know it is ultimate?
@@katamas832 Truth is not a concept, is a person, just like love is not a concept, but a person. You don’t know Who Truth and Love is, then what you think you know doesn’t matter.
Get the hell out of people's bedrooms, ultimately it's between God and the individual. Again leave those people aline and tou do you. That's why people are leaving the church!
Or when it approves of slavery, rape, genocide, infanticide, pillory, terrorism, misogyny, and discrimination against handicapped people. Yeah, it's not a good "moral" guide at all.
Mark 9:42 “Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him if a great millstone were hung around his neck and he were thrown into the sea.
@@virtuoussoulhealer3644 if homoxesuality was wrong, you'd expect it say "men don't lie with men" and "women don't lie with women". it says neither. the hebrew is unclear but the conventional rendering says not to use a man or boy like a woman in bed. under patriarchy, women were considered inferior, so a male taking a woman's role was denigrating. regardless, haven't you heard we no longer follow the OT law? the news went out 2K years ago, I'm surprised you haven't heard.
Christian really have a problem with keeping their religion to themselves. Same sex relationships has been going on throughout history, you can’t change nor deny that.
@Nathan Desta okay, but that just means that their lust in general was bad. Not per se which gender each angel and human had so that wouldnt really say anything about gay rights or wether or not it makes senses for them to get married, right?
@Nathan Desta yeah, I get what youre on about. I dont even think it matters what the bible say about these things since I'm not a Christian and dont believe that it is the word of god or any god for that matter
@Nathan Desta one thing tho. Saying that god wouldnt let the bible get polluted is not really true since it has a lot of other awful stuff in it(slavery, genocid etc that he orders his people to commit) so I dont really see why homophobia would be out of the question. Unless you think these things are A okay
@@hueyfreeman5947 because no straight man should care that much or hate somebody for being different the bible literally says love people and you've taken it upon yourself to take that as be the same
Really, how is that? Are you under the impression you that can earn your way in? Where do you get that from?. If you believe in Heaven, something must have convinced you that it exists.. So, lets start there... btw atheists don't believe there is God or heaven. But what made you believe in heaven? If your saying they have a better shot at getting heaven. Then that must mean you believe there is one..That's means you also believe God exists because he created heaven. NO?
@@ezrazentor7725 Nobody said nothing about hating, God does not hate them. God loved all man so much, he nailed his son to a cross for all man's sin. Because the penalty of sin, is death and separation from him for ever. Se he came into world as man,.. to give his life as ransom for many. Because he was without sin. And only by believing in his grace and sacrifice through his son, can we enter the kingdom of heaven. His laws are how we should live on earth. and also the reason, we'd never get to heaven without Jesus.. because man violates everyone of those commandments at some point in his life.. even by thinking about killing, or adultery,..you've done it according to God. . And when you except Christ into your heart. You don't to HAVE to live rightously, You WANT to, You won't be perfect, you'll still sin,.But, your sin has been paid for, you just have to trust and live by Jesus's example. Not any preachers, or Pope.. They are human, and they will fail you,...
You're clearly a bigot if you can't respect that these people have a different viewpoint than you do. A lot of people think there is something spiritually and/or morally wrong with homosexuality.
They spend the whole time talking about how gay marriage is wrong and make assumptions that all gays are non-monogamous and didn't answer the question. What if there are two homosexuals in a monogamous relationship whom keep to themselves and live a life of faithfulness and integrity? There is not one logical argument anyone can make as to why this scenario would be amoral. Just saying "because it says so in the Bible" is NOT a good enough answer and having a response as such is a genuine insult to God's intelligence.
These arguments aren't logical at all. Two adults who don't conform to heteronormative, Christian principles, who choose to marry with lucid minds, are not harming anyone else. Pushing your religion on others is the real breach of ethics. Thank goodness we now have equality in marriage!
You didn’t answer the question that you yourselves asked, “Can homosexuality be wrong if it doesn’t harm anyone?” I wasted 10 minutes of three guys rambling about marriage and divorce without even actually tackling homosexuality and it’s problems. Maybe that’s because there are no problems and none of you can give real answers without consulting the Bible
Yeah. They presented same sex marriage as a slippery slope to a 50 year old man marrying a 12 year old girl, completely ignoring the issue of whether there is harm in such relationships, as there obviously is in such an unbalanced relationship as the latter.
And looking again, "Can homosexuality be wrong ...", wasn't even the question they asked. It was " *How* can homosexuality be wrong...". It is clear that they started with the conclusion that it is wrong, and are desperately trying to find reasons.
@@briantitchener4829 If that's what they thought, then they should have just said that and saved ten minutes. Of course, it wouldn't have convinced anybody who didn't already believe it, any more than it does when you say it.
So it's your god's design to give non hetero behavior to 1500 animal species, but say it's offensive only in one of them? Weird. Sex is not just about children, unless you're saying infertile people can't have sinless sex either. Sex is about trust, enjoyment, exercise, and giving. If you think it's just about children, I pity your partners. Marriage is also not just about children. If non hetero people want to raise children, let them. Plenty of screwed up kids come from hetero parents; hetero parents have just as many issues as non heteros. The bible says nothing about non-hetero marriage. It's a huge red herring. Marriage to a minor has demonstrable harm. Absolutely. It's not illegal to have a child without being married. No state penalizes that situation at all. Laws have no interest in dictating marriage as one thing or another beyond their bigoted religious roots.
Saying "if animals do it, it must be ok" is a bad argument. Many animals also do things such as eat their young, or practice incest, yet they are obviously not ok.
@@hamburglar8794 *"Saying "if animals do it, it must be ok" is a bad argument."* Correct. Which is why you erected that Strawman argument, to knock it down.
@@GavinAlexander. That was your argument in your first paragraph. You said that in God's plan, it is apparently only offensive for humans to practice homosexuality, and fine if animals do it. I am just pointing out that your logic doesn't hold up under further scrutiny. There are many things that animals do that are completely unacceptable for humans to do.
@@hamburglar8794 *"That was your argument in your first paragraph. You said"* Pay attention. I'm not the person who wrote that. *"that in God's plan, it is apparently only offensive for humans to practice homosexuality, and fine if animals do it."* No, that's not what the person said. You added in "and fine if animals do it". *"I am just pointing out that your logic doesn't hold up under further scrutiny."* No, you were erecting a strawman of the original commentator's argument, falsely claiming they were saying something is okay if animals do it. That's not what they said. *"There are many things that animals do that are completely unacceptable for humans to do."* Just because you double down on your strawman, doesn't mean it's not still a strawman.
@@hamburglar8794Clearly you failed to interpret their argument correctly. They simply stated that it would be highly hypocritical of a theoretically omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient deity to proclaim that homosexuality is only prohibited in humans yet make no mention of it in regards to other animals. Thereby brining this deity’s perceived benevolence into question, i.e. If such a deity is shown to be sadistic considering their inclination to condemnation of innocents that have committed no offence other than failing to comply with the nonsensical criterion set by themselves under a masquerade of “moral superiority” and “purging of injustice”, are they really a deity one should worship? Are their ideals really what one would hope to enshrine?
Wow. These guys are insanely out of touch. I suppose getting all your morals and world view from a book written thousands of years ago doesn’t allow for much personal development. The dude on the left said he shouldn’t have to hire homosexuals😂
Same here Jonas simkins. I only watched this video because I’m trying to understand why people are offended by normal down to earth gay people (there are some crazy people who have sorta occupied the movement these days lol) who just want to live there lives. I didn’t find those answers in this video lol just more ‘god said’ BS
I kind of agree with you. People shouldn’t be forced to hire women, black people, asians, disabled people, gingers....etc if they don’t want to either I suppose. I think tho that we can agree choosing not to associate/hire someone based entirely on a bias against the category you chose to put them in is something we are trying to evolve beyond as a society and for good reason.
Whut? "Children have always been brought forth in monogamous marriage"? You should try reading the Bible. Abraham had one wife (his half-sister, by the way) and at least one concubine. We don't _know_ if Isaac had any concubines, but there's nothing to indicate that he would have thought it was wrong. Jacob had _two_ wives and _two_ concubines. Mosaic Law - God's Perfect Law - allows for marrying more than one woman. Gideon, a champion of Israel, had two wives. King David, who was "a man after the God's own heart" had _eight_ wives. Polygamy and concubinates are _everywhere_ in the Old Testament.
Those families from the OT that you mentioned had a lot of conflict and problems in the home. Hence why God said that we should only have one man and one wife.
@@efearioga5117 Where did he say that again? Not in the Mosaic Law. Also, God really shouldn't have to learn that multiple wives lead to problems. He should already know.
@@efearioga5117 There is conflict between monogamous couples as well: Adam and Eve, Isaac and Rebecca, Samson and Delilah. There is conflict in all relationships. Just because there is conflict means it's a sin?
IF ANY GAYBABY WATCHED THIS FOR INTELLECTUAL REASON, I DO COMMEND YOU AND HOPE YOU STAY LOVING TOWARDS YOURSELF AND YOUR NATURE, WHICH IS NOT A SIN! Thankfully there is in the US Constitution a division of state and church. There are many loving and healthy lifelong monogomous lgbtq relationships. We raise loving and caring families, and we're citizens who have the right to have marriages recognized by the state. To have the same inheritance, tax, and other social rights that any married person deserves. You can believe your little book, but morality, and monogmous homosexual relationships long predate the bible. And it is not a sin, nor is it a choice, nor is it nothing comparble to lieing or divorcing. Nor is it a human odity. Penguins are a classic case of animals that have life long monogmous homosexual partnerships, adopting eggs and contruibuting to the life and love of the colony. Giraffes, lions and so many more, homosexuality is so prevalent in the animal kingdom, it is not unnatural. Certainly not a sin. It is love. It is caring and healthy relationships. And should be respect and honored as all love should be.
@Benz thats why in the U.S. thankfully we have the division of state and church. Because religion has no authority in deciding what is good for mental health, nor what is ethical, nor is it the foundation to human morals. Living a prosperous life with healthy kids and a home and living as a law abiding citizen that does charity and helps his community is a blessing, doesnt harm anyone, and lives in a truly empathetic way.
Idk you people use the animal kingdom for reference... like Bible thumper if you're going to use the thing then be 100% with it. Because you forget their is rape in their and killing their own children just to have more sex to. Animal kingdom is not free it's pretty much a fixed system , you are not fixed you're free to do w.e you want. So use something else for your references and be 100% with it don't go cherry picking. The only problem I see with homosexuality is their is no real rules to it, you can do and be w.e you wan this you have cult alphabet gang... which should be burned to the ground or sealed away or something.
@@twistedlime1975 *"Idk you people use the animal kingdom for reference..."* Wrong. The animal kingdom is used to point out its occurrence in nature, thus countering the fallacious claim that same-sex attraction is unnatural. See, what you bigots do is fallaciously try to invalidate same-sex attraction by claiming it's not natural. First, that's nothing more than an argument from nature logical fallacy. Secondly, is false. What can be observed occurring/arising in nature, is natural. And same-sex attraction has been recorded all throughout nature, therefore, it is natural. The animal kingdom is pointed to as evidence of its natural occurrence, not as a reference for how humans can behave. *"like Bible thumper if you're going to use the thing then be 100% with it. Because you forget their is rape in their and killing their own children just to have more sex to. Animal kingdom is not free it's pretty much a fixed system , you are not fixed you're free to do w.e you want. So use something else for your references and be 100% with it don't go cherry picking."* Stop. The argument isn't, "it's in nature so it can be done". That's a gross misunderstanding on your part, or you're intentionally erecting a strawman argument. *"The only problem I see with homosexuality is their is no real rules to it, you can do and be w.e you wan this you have cult alphabet gang... which should be burned to the ground or sealed away or something."* Yes, we get it, you're a bigot. Spewing your bigotry isn't the presentation of an argument. It's just exposing your bigotry.
So near the beginning of the video let's say starting at 2:30 . It is private it's not harming anybody it is a civil rights issue and it won't harm the church because you are to separate church and state. His argument for this is that you don't separate church and state and it will start harming the church. And in no popular opinion is it OK for an older gentleman to be with an underaged person. He's trying to use sensationalized examples to exaggerate a point. Even if it was a popular opinion we have a standard for age of consent. Also for him to say later on in the video that's how the the world is a ridiculous statement is a bit of a hypocritical statement. . back in biblical times it was OK for a much older gentleman to be with somebody 12 or 13. It was OK to start your family at that age in back then if you didn't start your family at that age you risked not starting a family at all. times were different back then but according to him you can't use the phrase that's how the world is. Because that is "ridiculous"
@@shidfard Wait, your logic on another thread was "x group did such, and its my opinion that doing so caused them to fail, so its not permissible". It's amusing how you can see "x group did such, so it is permissible" is "stupid logic", yet cant see how YOURS was the exact same stupid logic in reverse.
lol those type of people are funny they try to find a hole so they can stimulate themselves it's like if a earhole was large enough to fit their members in they would probably go for that if it was safe. goofy people wanting that interaction 👨💻🐒 its low key sad
@@explodingheart2824 gay people are not different from straight people. We humans found out that we love pleasure, and we're civilized enough to know how to pleasure ourselves without hurting anyone. Your God or your book don't dictate what is moral and what is not, neither does nature.
I just don't understand why it's always compared to pedophilia. Love is all you need sure but pedophilia is a completely different matter as it can happen heterosexually as well. With a mentality like that heterosexuality is wrong too. It's a deeper issue than homosexuality on its own when it enters the idea of pedophilia.
@@BorisVixen Sexual sin can include adultery , sex before marriage, porn, etc. so under that umbrella term it’s all essentially the same as pedophilia, right? Why not focus on existing bigger issues like that fact that marriages don’t last! Address the core issue of lacking love than to focus on consenting adults already in love. Because they’re so comparable as you say…what a joke!
As of June 2020, Voddie has stood firm on the word of God and has not conformed to this world, but has stood firm on the inerrancy and sufficiency of the word of God for every real world event and decisions.
I think the fact that we’re commenting on it shows it wasn’t at all done for them, but for communities that are interested in what Christians believe about marriage and homosexuality.
You did not answer the question about what is harmful in homosexuality. You present it as a commandmend, not to engage in it. OK. That is true. Its in the bible. What is confusing is, that with f.e. murder or theft, it is obvious why this is wrong and how it harms people. But what harm does it, if a tiny percentage of gays marry each other or have sex in the first place? As long as christians cannot come up with arguments parallel to the bible, they will not convince people. And it is possible, that the anti-gay rules are outdated. Maybe they made sense in ancient times, bc back then it was a means to distinguish from heathen cults and societies. Just like animal sacrifieces and weird rules about how to corporal punish your slaves and that you should stone your kids, if they dont obey. Is there any conclusive argument, why this rule should still apply in the 21st Century?
Here’s some arguments I can think of, some are devil’s advocate: -Some ancient philosophers like Plato condemned it because he considered it to be an act of pure lust since it could not result in procreation. -Gay subcultures tend to be highly promiscuous. The average number of partners a straight man will have in his lifetime is 7, for a gay man it’s 50. This is also a high contributing factor to the STD epidemic in the gay subculture as well. -Gay subcultures tend to encourage hedonistic lifestyles with not a lot of moderation. Drug use is rampant as is unbridled kink practices. -Many ancient philosophers (and some modern ones) believe engaging in same sex attraction long term makes men effeminate or keeps them from becoming fully masculine. An understandable anxiety if you lived in an ancient tribe because in those days if your men weren’t manly you got conquered by your neighbors.
@@TheNightWatcher1385 Thank you. These are valid arguments. I heard about the STD-aspect and it seems a real problem. The only problem that remains now is, how they can deal with it. Bc Celibacy seems not very realistic for most men. Even Jesus and Paul agreed to that. What should they do - being not interested in women? So called "conversion-Therapies" seem to do a lot of harm to gay people and not work out. Any idea about that?
@@petervonbergen5364 A decent question. One more argument against it I can think of is that for submissive men in gay relationships, they will inevitably receive anatomical damage since the male body isn’t designed to be penetrated. As they age, this often makes them incontinent. I’d say that the idea that sexuality can never be changed is a pretty modern idea. The very term “straight” comes from “the straight and narrow.” This term originated from the phenomenon of gay men stopping their behavior and “going straight”, which apparently happened a lot in the past before our culture pushed this idea that it never happens. Amusingly, the term “straight” used to refer to a gay individual who had chosen to stop engaging in that behavior. Tastes change. I used to love peas as a kid, now I hate them. I used to hate carrots, now I love them. Anything is possible.
@@TheNightWatcher1385 I am no expert on this. But all I read about studies and research points in the direction, that it is a given if you are gay and that it cant be changed. Some christians claim that, but its very likely that they just live in denial, because many victims of "conversion therapy" have admitted that they pretended to be straight now bc of the social pressure. That cant be good, if it leads to forced bigotry. The argument, that in former times it was seen that way is not very strong. In former times, people knew literally nothing about psychology and science. They believed the earth is flat. I have seen the testimony of many gay men, who claimed to have been always that way, as long as they can remember. I admit this is not a comfortable view for christians. But should we not be honest more than apologetic? Imagine christians - who ought to love their next like themselves - terrorize and invalidate people, who literally have no choice. They can either live as shamed outsiders or deny who they are. Isnt that horrible? Sadly we have no direct word from the lord about it. And Paul admitted that he offered his personal opinions concerning these things and always pointed out, if it is somehting directly from God that he speaks about. Is it possible, that Paul was a child of his time and just judged it as bad, bc everybody did? On the other hand, the anal health issues are really disgusting. That cant be the way either. I am still confused about the issue.
@@petervonbergen5364 I don’t personally buy the idea that behavior can never change, and even if certain desires don’t change, every one of us deals with our own temptations and inclinations. This doesn’t give us free reign to engage in all our temptations. Some are prone to alcohol abuse and so take steps to avoid it. Some are more prone to violence and so try to keep themselves calm with various methods. Some of us suffer with depression and so go to therapy. Even if it were true that our base desires don’t change, our chosen behavior certainly can. For example, I’ve had same sex encounters before, but I don’t consider myself gay and I haven’t had an encounter in years now, because I simply chose not to pursue them, combined with prayers for the strength to do so. Am I permanently changed? The temptation sometimes appears, but my behavior has definitely changed on that front and if it happens again I will repent and seek forgiveness as we should all do whenever we fall short. If we don’t believe that anything is possible with God then we’re saying he’s not all powerful, and if he isn’t, why would he be worthy of worship?
It's contrary to God's design, nature, society, community, the human body. It's pretty straight forward. Wrong has to do with morality. And God is the only one that has authority over morality. He's designated it as wrong.
@@EGM369 kudos to Voddie, my big brother in Christ. He is increasingly becoming the voice of John the Baptist in our society, something we have been lacking for decades. Great shall be his reward in heaven!
Brian, why are you spreading lies and rumors? It's ungodly and gross. JD Greear and Russell Moore have not walked back on this issue. You're being slanderous.
"Homosexuality is present in over 500 hundred species. Homophobia is only present in one. If an insect can get over it so can you"- Some Random Guy On Gay TikTok
@@verafosnow5858 you should get a life. My gay fathers are using that shit app. I live them more than anything, they adopted me and made me feel special and part of a family. But that is not an excuse to use tiktok. They think that I feel embrassed by them being gay, bur it's actually what they do on that app. I'm gonna call the orphanage to bring me back.
@@chuksdagamer6523 The thing is, there is no victim to homosexuality. The only reason people are against it is because of a book written thousands of years ago with zero evidence to prove its true. People just mindlessly follow whatever's ina and use it for hateful, discriminatory, purposes.
pretty much none of this even makes sense in the context outside of your religion. honestly I was hoping for actual opinions without using gospel... if you cannot explain to me why its wrong without using your belief system in turn making us follow your religion in turn not freedom of religion from our end the point is mute. Its not wrong I am not christian nor will i follow christian doctrine unless that said doctrine just happens to be basic human decency if you can explain to me why its bad without using the bible than I would concede but at this rate you just seem like you want to push religion... the only thing i can get behind is divorce hurts children but this isnt a homosexuality issue and even if it was a gay marriage they would still face this also. its entirely a different subject to tackle.
Child marriage is already legal in all but 4 states in the U.S. the attempt to outlaw it is opposed by religious groups, mainly Christian. So the people in this video will be addressing that right? Will we see videos about the dangers of child marriage?
@@gryph346 see but the Bible doesn’t condemn it so is it okay ?? even tho we know morally it’s wrong. That’s why it’s belived a lot of homosexual verses are about pedophilla.
@@marquicetaylor3941 You need a book that plenty of people myself included do not believe in to teach you about morality ? If you wanna talk about the bible, Mary was suposedly between 13 and 14 years old when she gave birth to jesus. She would've been married or engaged to Joseph, which would make him 19 or 20. So the god from the bible literally choose a child bride. Ew. And you want morals out of this ?
I have a question for the religious people. Sexuality doesn't change as things like conversion therapy don't work and actually severely harm the people who undergo it. This would imply that sexuality is a part of a person, and they were born with or naturally developed their sexuality. Why would God purposefully put someone on this Earth who is gay or lesbian if it's wrong? Why would He set someone up for failure?
@@mariemzobiri5793 So this all loving God wants people to give up happiness and the potential for a fulfilling, loving relationship for him? Why? To assert some weird sense of servitude and dominance? That's one thing I'll never understand. Some people phrase God as a loving father-figure that they have a personal relationship with and others phrase him as a dictator. Do you want to be ruled by someone who has a personal relationship with you or a dictator?
@@mariemzobiri5793 Why does this benevolent God torture His creation in hell, or if you don't believe in hell, deny them happiness for something as simple as loving another person. Isn't the most integral teaching of most religions loving the people around you?
When you are born again as a gay person & realize that the Bible was written over 1000 years ago by men, not GOD! Also Jesus never even mentioned or condemned Homosexuality!!!
I doubt anyone, let alone my target audience will see this, but there is nothing wrong with being lgbt. It is impossible to change who you’re attracted to, or the way you feel about your body. I understand that these people love to hate on queer people, but their opinion of you does not change one simple fact. You were born with infinite dignity, value, and worth, and nothing can take that away. Why am I watching this video if I disagree with them? The internalized homophobia and transphobia. I’ve tried to change. Many, many times. I have not succeed in the least. Someone once told me, “it’s your relationship with god, not the church.” Take this as you will
First of all: We don’t hate the people, only the sin involved. You’ve tried to change but you couldn’t, so perhaps you should consider reading the Bible if you haven’t, and praying to God as well. Because in Him and only Him alone can he truly help you. I promise that if you give Him a chance that he can change you for the good.
@Viktor Petrov that argument is useless. Obviously being attracted to children is wrong. I know that. That is because children cannot consent. Your argument about “they are responsible for acting on it” can just as well be turned around on you as a heterosexual male. So when someone is falling in love, feelings and emotions play no part in that? My guess is you’ve never been in love. Feelings and emotions are literally what make you fall in love 🤣 Reason and reality also play a part in falling in love, yes. Reason, to be able to look beyond just your feelings in order to see if the person is actually right for your and in order to see past manipulation that may occur, and reality. You need to present in this reality in order to fall in love. You cannot fall in love if the reality inside your head is so drastically different from the reality of this world. I do agree that queer people need to seek help. They have received so much hate and some even murdered for not being able to change who they love. You straight people aren’t being killed for being straight. You Christian’s aren’t being killed for your religion. Some of you are, but nowhere near the numbers and severity that you make it out to be. I bet most Christian’s killed are not killed for their faith but for the way they treat others. The violence that exists today towards LGBTQ people, and POC for that matter, disgusts me. The color of peoples skin, of who their attracted to, doesn’t affect you. Gay marriage isn’t going to get rid of straight marriage. The LGBTQ community isn’t trying to erase straight people. They’re trying to get equality.equal treatment, because they are just as much human as anyone else. Bizarre desires? How so? Just because you don’t know what it’s like doesn’t automatically make it bizarre. You know what’s bizarre? How well over 500 species also practice homosexuality. Yet in only one species are their killed and raped for it. Can you guess which one? You guessed it! Humans! I don’t care what you believe, that doesn’t give anyone a right to rape, kill, hate crime, or harass anyone you please. Let alone shove your Christianity down our throats because you think we need to be fixed.
@@That1Guy112 I promise you that god cannot change me. You have not seen the countless hours I sobbed in pray begging him to change me because I so desperately believed there was something wrong with me. I have read the Bible, and I’m trying to slowly work through it deeply before I reside on my faith for myself, as I am currently agnostic. I just prayed the other night in fact. Just about my day. Asked god to give me a dream (which, when I was Christian, he seemed to follow through on more) about a girl I like I may like. That that if he did, it would mean that it’s was him who made me this way, and that there is nothing wrong with it. And he did. And before you say anything against it, he always answered when I asked for a dream about his second coming. That if was coming back, if he would give me a dream. Hell, he would give them without me asking 🤣 “Love the sinner, hate the sin” I hate this phrase so much. It is so incredibly toxic. This phrase seems to spread love to the person, but it actually spreads hate. This phrase tells the person, that whatever it is you’re talking about, you hate the part of them that does that or feels that. It delivers a message that the person must stop immediately because it is so incredibly wrong and they’ll burn for all eternity with no escape. Like being LGBTQ or having premarital sex (which isn’t as bad as you make it out to be. I can plain more if you’d like). But these things are not wrong if they are don’t consensually. In fact, they aren’t even the same thing. If they are done unconsensually, that’s rape. Not sex or gay sex. Rape. And I don’t know what you believe to a T, but rape is wrong. Which, correct me if I’m wrong, but the Bible never condemns rape. Pretty bizarre to me.
@@ffrostedblakess I don’t understand how the phrase that I presented is “toxic.” What that means is that even though I don’t love the sin, I won’t condemn the person for it. It’s not saying I hate a part of that person at all, because that is not what us Christians believe in. Also, dreams have more meaning than you think. After all, Joseph was able to interpret pharaohs dreams which had an interesting meaning. Also, even though the Bible never explicitly states that rape is wrong, we as a people still define it as wrong and you can be given long sentences for doing such an act. This is because of our moral standards, and knowing what God days is sin gives us enough understanding to realize that God would say that rape is wrong because he never intended for that to happen.
You're absolutely right, do not even try to change for these people, you are who you are. There's nothing wrong with that. I do hope there are no people in your life who think homosexuality is a sin and you should change, especially your family, not anymore at least.
@@rochellecalvin311 That's fucking stupid. So a hetero man with low sperm count or hetero barren woman in a relationship is wrong? People who choose to have no kids at all are wrong? Despite adding more happiness to the world? You're wrong and supporting dogma over reason. You should be ashamed.
@@rochellecalvin311 Let's not conflate the term 'unnatural' with 'wrong' - we don't see glasses anywhere in nature, and yet many of us gladly wear them to help us see. We live vastly unnatural lives, because unnatural things (cars, clothes, domesticated animals, and arguably religion itself) can very well be good and inspire joy.
@@raptorlewis what I'm saying is the MAIN purpose of sex is to reproduce. If two men or women can reproduce then there will be no use for the opposite sex. Life is a cycle no one has to restart nature or anything, a man and a women comes together and have a baby, the plants gives us oxygen and we give them carbon dioxide so we need them and they need us for survival. It's a continuous cycle. Anyway I and The Lord Jesus loves you with whatever you choose but know it's wrong it's a sin, and every sin is punished. My wish is that you all find peace and love in Jesus. God bless and be safe.
@@rochellecalvin311 The cycle isn't really important. There will always be straight people, and the existence of gay people doesn't put the cycle at risk - we will continue to procreate as a species unless we all magically turn gay, which obviously won't happen and nobody wants. So for what reason is homosexuality scrutinised against in the way that it is? It doesn't inhibit the circle of life or the natural progression of the human species - it's a harmless, self-contained notion which doesn't deserve to be labelled as "sinful" or transgressive.
@Viktor Petrov Noah and Ham (Genesis 9:20-27), Sodom and Gomorrah (Genesis 19:1-11), Levitical laws condemning same-sex relationships (Leviticus 18:22, 20:13), two words in two Second Testament vice lists (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; 1 Timothy 1:10), and Paul's letter to the Romans (Romans 1:26-27). (Genesis 9:20-27, 19:1-11), cultic prostitution (Leviticus 18:22, 20:13), male prostitution and pederasty (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; 1 Timothy 1:10), and the Isis cult in Rome (Romans 1:26-27).
Why don't you speak up about the horrible abuses perpetrated to children, rape, torture, murder at the hands of those who run these churches?!! Ah no, they are more interested in controlling who shall love who
Since when have we begun to define our walk with Christ without sacrifice. The truth is it cost all of us to follow Jesus. How then do we define love without sacrifice. Love costs. Just read “the Book.” No one is exempt. Everyone has a choice, obey or disobey. But if you love HIM more than you “love” self, you would make the sacrifice.
I believe you may be mistaking what we believe as followers of Christ. We seek all to follow HIM. Perhaps you knew that bug wanted me to express my for your taunting. In any case, I’ll oblige. We believe that there is only ONE way. So, no my comment does not include other faith systems, since we don’t recognize their eternal value. You may view this as arrogant, we accept this as Truth.
@@normantaylor1711 I have specifically asked thousands of Christians if Buddhist go to hell simply for not converting, and all but 3 have answered yes, and then tried to justify that evil. That is more than arrogance, that's willful immorality.
@@normantaylor1711 Here is an example of what I'm talking about. lion fish 5 minutes ago @Spurious Effect Buddhist do not go to Heaven, those non believers go to hell. That's the truth. Non believers can exercise their free will whether to accept Christ or not.
That's a pretty cavalier statement to make FOR SOMEONE ELSE. Assuming you're straight could you simply deny your heterosexuality for your entire life because you believe "a god" demanded it. Don't bother answering, because it is EASY to make this proclamation when you'll never have to put it to the test. This is why it's so fundamentally offensive to hear all these hetero christians flippantly tell gay people to "just deny" who they are while simultaneously NEVER having to live up to the same standards they set.
Homosexuality is not a decease..............They are born this way.......religion will not make it go away. Each and every one of us has a gay family member.......they are human just like us non-homosexuals...WAKE UP.
Homosexuals are human and should not be mistreated because of their status but they should not be given special treatment either. What God says outweighs everything else. God says homosexuality is not what HE had in mind when HE created male and female. The only opinion that matters is God's. Be blessed.
Go to my channel. Look in the biblical Truth playlist. Find the show TEST, TRIALS AND TRIBULATIONS.. It can help in the homosexual conversation.. Leave a comment. Also what does the bible say on l.g.b.t.q.+.. find out.. watch the show from start to finish and find out.
*Non à l'homophobie* calls kids "GARBAGE" and "PIECES OF SH*T". He says he will "make" them do things that they don't want to do. Why is he abusing kids like this?
The black dude is comparing a same sex couple/marriage with child abuse 💀 And here I am and thought we were already over that and a full grown man would know the difference between two adults being in a loving, consensual relationship and a man raping a child and forcing it into a child marriage. 💀
@@theyellowshoe "children can never grow up normal with 2 dads or 2 moms" source? I have personally seen 2 dads being FAR SUPERIOR parents than a dad and mom. You also kinda forget single parents. Single parents are child abusers?
@@theyellowshoe I'm guessing you made that up. Because you seem like the type to make up stuff and believe it. Then proceed to act like your little theory is fact.
@@theyellowshoe There were already made studies about LGBT+ parents and the children grew up loved and safe. Even without the LGBT+ Community, there are still children who grew up with a single parent or with their grandparents or were adopted or had a step parent...
@@hhhsss7432 I don't have to agree or disagree. If I believe in Christianity, I have to follow the rules. My feelings are irrelevaqant in the rules. "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it?" (Jeremiah 17:9). So, yes I am of the viewpoint it is wrong. but people can do what they do. It's between God and them
@@hhhsss7432 Apologies let me try to clarify. I am bisexual yes. However my sexuality does no change the rules of Christianity. If I claim to be a Christian, I cannot pick and choose what rules to follow. The same way if I went to a different country I cannot pick and choose the laws I like to follow. I have to follow all of them, regardless of how I feel. Christianity says homosexual acts should not be committed. So even though I may be attracted to men, I must follow the rules and not sleep with men. Did that make sense or make it worse?
It very pathetic of not one not two but three men. Adult and matured to come together and say they are talking about why something is wrong and then say absolutely nothing relevant..One of you says "It is impossible, based on what sexuality is" referring to same sex marriage and proceeds to not even explain..no evidence not explanation just an authoritative proclamation..Another one of you says that the current debate on it being a private matter is a lie..Again proceeds to give no explanation why...then he continues to say that law is established under principle and precedent and gives an onroute that we the existence of same sex marriage comes other sexual vices..This coming from a black man whose ancestors faced discrimination....it is hilarious. How do you come to establish that homosexuality is a leeway or gateway to things like pedo****? Another one of you comes and says monogamy does not exist in same sex relationships...and again I ask...from whom and where are you making these assertion????....It is utterly disappointing to just see people spreading hate masked as the truth..with no evidence or concrete justification apart from belief...If there is a God I hope he had mercy on your damned souls.
@Κύκλωπας depravity? lack of boundaries? total lack of respect for ones self and others? what do you mean by this? these are subjective and not based in reality. who's being disrespected? what boundaries are being skirted? how is it depraved?
Those preachers are against divorce. Amazing. So I believe inside abusive relationships, the woman must suffer all the violence done by an abusive husband. And as well the children must suffer the abuses of a violent father? I hope you were talking to divorce in general, as something that should not be done as easily.
Marriage is a covenant made between two humans and God, not two humans that marry in ritual with a Priest supposedly under God. If there is abuse within a legally acknowledged marriage, it was never made in God’s covenant but a partnering made in the flesh. Following the path of the flesh will always lead to disaster. Legal marriage is only a flimsy manifestation based on True spiritual marriage, and legal divorce may not be equivalent to a spiritual divorce.
they're saying: we love you, just don't love or care of have feeling for anyone, we'll be ok with you but only if you go far away and live alone forever without loving anyone even tho that love is so much pure and real than a lot of other "straight" love.
I discovered this to be true first-hand. I went through years of conversion therapy, “ex-gay” church programs, followed by years of celibacy. It was very lonely and miserable. Then I realized that God loves me unconditionally as I am. It was the teachings of men that asked me to deny my very capacity to love and express love. My life with God is so much deeper and richer than it was when I was hating myself out of a misguided attempt at holiness.
@@tres-adames nope. God does not love those who refuse to repent of their sinful ways. You must repent and believe the gospel. No repentance = no salvation.
@@tyc4587 no god loves them just the way they are. It kills you to see others happy and that is why you want to make others believe that God hates them. You are not Gods favorite child. He has helped my gay ass get through times he even blessed me so much. So you can suck it I don’t care. God loves us soooooo much and you know it, you jealous bigot!
@Κύκλωπας There are a number of things presented that I wouldn't accept without question. One that stands out particularly is the "slippery slope" argument that is suggested in the video. This is made on the assumption that a "love is all you need" principle is being established through the acceptance of same sex relationships. I see no good reason to imagine this is the case and none is offered. Restrictions on the age at which someone can consent to a sexual relationship would be less appropriate. They would seem to have nothing at all to do with sexual orientation - why should/would they? I suspect the argument is made in the video merely to paint a broad-brush view of same sex relationships as equivalent to abusive ones. But it isn't substantiated ... hence the interest in challenging it to see if there is any merit in it at all or if it is just invention.
I'm a female that cannot have kids. Does that mean I shouldn't get married? I also believe that divorce is necessary for many different reasons. It is said that divorce hurt kids, you know what hurt kids seeing their parent beaten, abused, emotionally and mentally a mess. I don't know if homosexuality is wrong or not, all I know is that I will try to love everyone as Christ said.
#1 God said, "If you love me, keep my commandments". IF you love God, you would have made sure that you became aware of his instructions that are all found in the Bible. #2 The Bible CLEARLY states what is allowed and what is forbidden by God. This is God's world that is run on God's rules. #3 IF you want to know God, then you want to know what his instructions are for your life. Part of what God expects you to do during your lifetime is spread the Gospel to the lost, which you have no idea what it says. What's stopping you from knowing him? How on earth can you love the lost "as Christ" unless you KNOW Christ?
According to you, they must be straight, right? To each its own, I guess. I personally go with psychoanalytic theories and say that homophobia is just a result of repressed homosexual urges or a form of latent homosexuality.
@@BlueSky-ej7xn For some people maybe. But I know from my own experience that I just read my mistranslated Bible that said it's a sin. It wasn't latent homoxesuality, it was just following what I thought the Bible said. Now I didn't buy the eisegesis - that the Bible says men marry women means that they must only marry women - which is what saved me. So when I checked the Bible in its original languages I changed my mind. As for these guys, you're right, we don't know.
It seems unreasonable for you to believe that you should be able to restrict and control strangers lives simply because you want to judge people even when the bible clearly states that that is Gods place, not mans
Actually, God tells us we must discern and judge all things. We are not to condemn! Big difference. Matthew 7 "Do not judge" is the first 3 words of a chapter that explained how to "do not judge HYPOCRITICALLY" but to instead JUDGE RIGHTEOUSLY. Read more than 3 words.
@@HOPE444LastHours the bible also says not to judge the 'sin' of your brother when you yourself are just as unholy in God's eyes. "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?" Matthew 7: 3-5. There is no human on this earth who can say they are sinless, so who are you to judge the 'sins' of others when you are a sinner yourself. That is Gods place, not ours. Not only that but the 'sin' that so offends you doesn't even effect you.
I find it funny that they never actually answered the question. The question isn’t about marriage, it’s how is Homosexuality bad if it doesn’t harm anyone? Also, Christians always make the same mistake in an argument: They try to use Christian ideology in their arguments, when the opposing side does not believe in their ideology. You can’t say that you’re speaking “truth” when the person you’re talking to doesn’t believe in your version of “truth”. Outside the strict and harmful Christian lifestyle, there is nothing morally wrong with 2 men being happy in a relationship.
You know, that's definitely an interesting thought, it seemed like they kind of talked around the question in a sense...but you said the question isn't about marriage, but it in fact is. Either a homosexual, or straight marriage. Although that sentence doesn't even really work because of the fact that biblically, it's impossible to have a homosexual marriage. It's not a marriage. You also mentioned that they used christian stuff, and you're totally right. If the opposing side disagrees, it might not change their mind. But Voddie once said that even if they disagree, we can't just put away the truth. If someone says "oh I don't believe in the Bible" to put it away is to put away THE authority. I know you'll probably disagree with everything I said, but that's my stance. You also mentioned there's nothing morally wrong with two men in a homosexual relationship, and I'm curious where you get your standard of morally wrong from?
@@vunenenthani6640 They really didn't. They more or less avoided the question directly and never gave a TL;DR response. They never really get to the point, but that's just me.
@@rgpearce5847 They indeed talked around the question. Well, you got to understand that not everyone believes in Biblical stuff. Your authority isn't my authority. When I meant morally wrong, I meant that in the sense that if they're happy and not hurting anyone in the process, why should it matter? "Morally wrong" to me is someone going out of their way to do something harmful to someone or a group of people. "Morally wrong" to me is to break morals and do something awful, either in general or to someone or something. If two men are happy being together, happier than forcing themselves to be with a woman, then I don't understand the problem.
Sorry guys, and especially Mr. Baucham: you want to say that homosexuals are harming the heterosexual marriage? If that would be so then there is nothing wrong with homosexuals , there is something wrong with heterosexual marriages as you propose them. Civil rights in a society with different believes and worldviews and based on human rights cant respect believes when they are agaisnt human rights (the Tolerance paradoxon of Karl Hoppe). Based on your interpretation of the bible you think homosexuals shouldnt be allowed to marry, tahst your interpretation, your believe and should never become a standart in our society as you support promiscuity and weaken those homosexuals who want to live in monogamous relationsships.
Accept the fact that being gay is an innate, natural, unchosen and unchangeable characteristic of the human condition, which God bestows upon some of His children. Teach this truth, and you will be on the right path!
Preach the truth in love. Preach about God and His love. It's difficult to understand the things of God if you don't fully understand God Himself. Hypocrisy and history have caused a skewed perception of God, represent Him correctly and rely on Him. I also encourage you to read books by Ravi Zacharias, one of the leading apologists out there. Check out his TH-cam videos too!
@@dove6069 No, you are wrong. There are thousands of religions and all members of each faith truly believe in their religion. Our society will fall apart if we do not separate church from state. It is unfair and dangerous.
*The purpose of sex:* To form a deep bond between two individuals that they would surround each other emotionally and in that they will then surround a child and together support that child. Not a toy. But can still be love between two married men and two married women. The Bible says "Do not lay with man as you would with woman." That means if you are a man who loves a man, this man will fulfill you in that he is a man. He will not fulfill those parts of you like a woman. He will fulfill those parts of you like a man. *Is having a same-sex lover a terrible or evil decision?* It is not. *Is having a same-sex lover a VERY BIG decision?* Yes, it is a choice one must make maturely with careful thought. They will not fulfill you the same exact way as an opposite gender individual will. But in alternate ways, yes, they will still fulfill you. Do you love them enough to still let them fulfill you this way. That would be your own answer to think over.
But why marriage? Like yall make up so many things why not make your own marriage up and leave Christianisnity alone about it? Yall even have false Christian churches with drags preaching and adding to the Bible.. that and their is no covenant ( I don't think) with gay marriage.
@@twistedlime1975 What is wrong with you? Christianity did not invent the social institution of marriage, nor is it the arbiter of the social institution of marriage, nor does it own the social institution of marriage. The arrogant sense of supremacy that your kind has is mind-boggling.
This is not about Our human way, it is about God's way. He has clearly designed a plan that is best for all mankind because He is our creator & His love for us is never ending. We cannot try to justify a human desire with what we think God thinks. Same gender people must not act on sexual attraction. God understands how hard that can be for people just as he understands how hard other affictions are on others- but we cannot Love God and knowingly sin against Him. We must take up our cross & follow Jesus- Suffering for what is right shows our life has been changed.
God designed marriage. Not humans. So it cannot be changed to fit society. Call it something else, but it is not holy matrimony. A marriage is a union of one man & one woman brought together by God.
I am gay, always have been. My twin brother was gay as well. I say was because he was Murdered!! He was a nurse and helped to get people better. Someone killed him possibly because of the hate thrown at gays, maybe he figured my brother's life didn't matter. Some woman came up to me and said his murder was a sighn from God and that my brother is in Hell and I must change or I will go there too!!!! God knew us in our mother's woumb did he not?!! Being Gay is Not a Choice. I run, not walk from people like the woman who said my brother is in Hell, she called herself born again, sanctified whatever it is she boasts to be. I have a personal relationship with God, my best friend and Always has been!! I have No time for preachers, religion or church. God is here with me and loves me, loved my brother and I have Peace!! 🙏
Actually a 2019 genetic study proved that homosexuality cannot be predicted by a single gene in the entire genome and thus is not genetic. Meaning nobody is born with any kind of sexual orientation. If you end up being gay, its something that developed early on in childhood due to your environment and circumstances and level of curiosity. It is an influenced choice.
I don't think it would be fair to me as a woman to have a man who has homosexual desires marry me and deny those desires because he will always have them and I want to be with a man who sexually desires me, not one who is trying to please God by 'doing the right thing' and being with me.
BVale just because someone does a video on TH-cam doesn't mean they can't lie.......i know plenty who did change and now are married with kids so it's possible because god is possible.....god knows peoples heart....and if you really want to be righteous or not.........he sees a soul that wants to be clean and free from sin...and he won't take it those demons away...?...i doubt that....and remember anybody who says jesus can't save that's the spirit of the antichrist
BVale a therapy session isn't gonna change that.....that was doomed from the start......only jesus can change a person.....abd that comes from a personal relationship with him....and the holy spirit
@@timothymccray6034 you think that the people going to Exodus International didn't ask Jesus to change their hearts? You are so quick to dismiss it as a 'therapy session' When People that went there desperately desired Jesus to change their hearts so much that they begged for help and believed it would happen and here you are discounting that as though its nothing.
@@hhhsss7432 From your atheistic pov. Yes it does not commit harm. If you are of faith, then yes it does commit harm. It is sin against yourself and God and you're simply damaging your relationship with him. Now that's not the issue, the issue is that you're assuming that because we don't support homosexuality, we are against homosexuals and hate them, which is not true. Frankly it is the opposite. Plus homosexuality is a choice via lifestyle
@@lekem9617 But, if you don't follow their religion or even believe in God, then it's immediately irrelevant. Why try to enforce your own religious principles upon others? Marriage is far from just a Judea Christian act, only meant for them.
@@GABA-Gool I'll attempt to answer you on that. The first thing to understand is that the Church doesn't try to enforce anything just to have its way (I can't speak for politicians representing Christianity though. Many there want to guarantee their own). The Church pushes for a traditional marriage agenda because it genuinely believes that same sex marriage is harmful to all society and the future of humanity, just like dysfunctional traditional homes, abortions, etc. The Church believes it's extremely harmful from a spiritual perspective for the lives of the people involved in that family, and from a societal perspective as a whole. So coming against certain things is a protective measure, out of love, not a tyranical move like we're made believe. People tend to assume that love is when people just let us do whatever we want, whatever makes us happy. Under that logic, a mother that loves a son wouldn't discipline him. A person who does drugs would be left alone self-destroying while the family watches. The second thing is by enforcing the homosexual right of marriage, the lgbt community is also pushing for laws to force churches to lose their religious freedom, to break their loyalty to their God in order to cater to their wants. It's very selfish if you think about it. I'm gonna force you to lose your religious freedom because I want you to marry me and my partner, even if it makes you break your moral principles, even though I can just move in together with that partner. If they want to get married and the state allows so, then let them be married by who is OK marrying them and not forcing an entire world to accept you and normalize who you believe you are when being born gay is not even proved Scientifically and it's extremely obvious that homosexuality has increased over the years, and not just not talked about like some claim to defend the matter. I can give you respect without having to accept your lifestyle if I don't believe you're meant to have it, the same way they don't have to accept the lifestyle I choose to have and the identity I choose to incorporate as a person. A drug addict's mother loves her son without accepting his lifestyle as a drug addict or criminal, for example. It doesn't make it any less love, but forcing me to accept you the way you are when I already give you respect as a human being is insecurity and manipulation. Trying to force someone to love you.
@@GABA-Gool they are not trying to enforce anything on you.. Just as you have your right to disagree, hold on and express your beliefs , they are also doing the same. With emphasis that the government should not force them to accept same sex marriage or join them either.
As long as there’s been human history, people have raised children within groups and practiced polygamy. Claiming humans have always been monogamous between one man and one woman is completely false. Colonialism & Patriarchy wants to believe that’s true, but there is plenty of evidence to the contrary.
This whole dialogue is conflated with perpetuating and reinforcing misinformation. Sexual orientation is an instinct, it’s not a behavior or a choice. It is not an issue of morality.
I rather be gay and happily married, than married to a women and unhappy for the rest of my life, I would be a worse sinner by lying to myself and everyone else around me.
@Flunky he is not royal he is just stating by nature he won't involve himself in blasphemy, Christianity went against nature, gay people are of nature, and the fact that Christianity went against it and tried to eradicate it, they are now seeing the repercussions of their sins, Christianity is a primitive religion that goes against nature. there is a reason why gays popped up during late-stage capitalism, we are becoming more evolved and more free
I find this a bit silly not gonna lie, people are so inversed in arguing if homosexuality is correct, like why? Its our life, let us live. So far I've seen people arguing why they think its a sin or wrong, completely fine to hold opinions, what I dislike is that you feel your 'opinions' have the right to shape the rights of the humans who have done nothing wrong. People in love is a sin based on the gender ? why? Reproduction doesn't necessarily have to be done through the traditional manner, so many people now do surrogacy, IVF, IFJ, adoption and many many more, (and if your argument with my statement is with the alternative methodology, I beg of you please go touch grass then typing here). And people here telling stuff like its a 'test', test of what? 'Temptation', if sexual desire didn't exist then reproduction and children wouldn't be born, so what if some people feel their sexual desire with the same sex? It does you no harm, the community consists of people who are mutually and consensually in a relationship, what gives you the right to barge your nose it someone else's love life? And if you make a stupid comparison with me like 'anger' or 'pedo' , then I implore you to understand; gays are also consisting of fully grown adults that you deny the right to be with, and if your comparison of 'love'; an aspect of life that does no harm to you or the parties involved, to something that does, you are a baseless idiot yelling on top of your lungs. Am I saying a grown man cannot groom a young boy? no. But is it any different than a grown man grooming a young girl, also no. Do not use rotten examples as 'Jeffrey Dahmer' to summarize a community, because you straight people got 'Ted Bundy' as your representation If a man and a woman can raise a degenerate, why are 2 completely sane and healthy moms not allowed to raise a child? Its time you logically argue with us, then throwing verses from few hundreds year old book. If not, its fine, as long as you don't blabber on how to live our lives, cause so far, I've seen nothing but 'opinions' surface as your 'argument'. Do you believe in god so much that you'd reduce a human from loving?
These people really don’t understand what true mutual love is... and they wallow in their ignorance. I’m a man. I love another man. It’s not the same thing as pedophilia, we both are in our right minds and can properly consent as fully develop males. We know right and wrong. We can conceive of what is and isn’t just. And we love each other, as one soul does it’s compliment. My love is no less from God than that of a heterosexual couple’s. It is pure, it is good, and it is by God’s good Grace alone that I love another man. If God isn’t about that important factor of love being good, then that is not a God I want or believe in. I believe in the God that is Love.
@Brazilian Goddess lol ridiculous. You might as well say "you worship a literal lamb, because Jesus is called a lamb many times" twisting words and scripture doesn't do you any favours
@Brazilian Goddess that's King David talking about after an invasion, and he is angry. That is not a command from God. He is speaking out of what happened to the Israelites and that they would feel the same pain. Honestly, you might as well say "the bible says Jesus is a lamb, therefore Christians worship animals". I doubt you think Christians really believe God tells them to do that. I can't change your hatred of the way the bible puts things, such as the flood for instance. But I pray you do seek after the truth
@Brazilian Goddess exactly. Npw you understand, to just say 'impossible' to everything. the Bible also says God made the world in 7 days, that's impossible!! Says God loves you, impossible!
@Hineni John3:16 Let her/him be - he/she is trying to create a debate where there is none - nobody is as blind as those who do not want to see. He/She is just a sign of society so dont judge ignorance.
I'll just end my two cents with saying this: it doesn't matter how you were born, but you must be born again.
You know the God that you worship said that it's okay not just to own slaves but also to beat them, right? Exodus 21:20-21, Leviticus 25:44-46.
It also says a permanently injuried soace was to be set free.
+Patrick MC Yeah, it also says that in the old testament. Come back when you have a violent verse in the new testament.
Oh so the God speaking, giving those instructions to Moses to pass on to his people has nothing to do with the God you believe in?
+Patrick MC - Read, think, comprehend and read some more.
*"The heart is deceitful above all things" Jeremiah 17:9*
@James Brashears more than once, it's stated that the heart is treacherous. Leading with the flesh only takes you away from God and that is why we as Christians are told to lead with the spirit. We all have feelings and desires but that doesn't mean we should act on them. Shalom brother.
Boom Bam BOOM BAM! Amen.
Hahaha! 🤣 Sounds like Jeremiah has loved & lost. That guy needs psychiatric counselling.
@May I halik you?: Insults? No, you cloud your own stupidity. You've proven nothing. You're argument begins with a foregone conclusion.
You have no truth. You're guessing what 2000 year old fables from the middle east mean.
@Boom Bam: Really? Does your precious Bible predict 534,000 innocent people to suffer horribly and die from Covid 19. While an Almighty Powerful Loving God Silently & Invisibly stands by & watches? I predict more will die, so am I a God? Like .... so what man.... Get Real.
People don’t preach it because they fear their church attendance will shrink.
Correct. Same reason they dont preach that divorce is not allowed by God bc only death breaks the marital Covenant. AND, that remarriage after a divorce while the original Covenant spouse is still alive puts one into CONSTANT ADULTERY.
Therefore their incoming money will shrink.
..and or they in it themselves. It's all fornication and adultery (some cases). The church will continue to struggle to have conviction and deliverance because we not addressing the real sexual issues on a spiritual level. Flee fornication is easy to say but can we expound on why. Amen Luie
@@philarevolutionarywarriorp8295 infidelity also breaks the covenant
@@Shield60 No it doesn't brother. Sorry that's a man made myth. Read the following verses for proof...
Mark 10:9
Romans 7:1-3
1 Corinthians 7:39
To the people who think that being gay is a choice, does that mean when you were young you could have chosen to be gay if you wanted to? If you answer no to that question, why would you think that someone else could choose to be gay? I honestly don't know why I am gay, but I do know that it had nothing to do with how my parents raised me. I was nowhere near a "momma's boy". I was actually much closer to my dad and spent more time with him than I did with my mom, and he treated me just like any "normaI" dad would treat his son. I was raised exactly the same way and in the same house as my older brother, who turned out to be straight. And I was never sexually abused when I was a kid. I never even knew anyone who was gay until I was 17. Nothing about my childhood was abnormal or out of the ordinary. If it were as easy as just being a choice, I would have chosen to be straight a long time ago, because the discrimination and hatred that many gay people face has tormented me for most of my life. Because of that, I still haven't accepted myself for being gay, unfortunately, from the time I knew that I was different when I was 8-9 years old, all the way up until today. I thank God that there are caring people out there who support and understand the LGBTQ community.
@Viktor Petrov
Sweetie, you're that troll using 4-5 burner troll accounts because you're embarrassed by your inability to defend your arguments. Everything you're prattling on about, you've already lost numerous times over, and you just keep repeating it. Why are you so obsessed with the attention of gay men, troll? Hmmm? Is it internalized homophobia because you're gay and this is the only way you can interact with gay men?
@Viktor Petrov so are you saying that if you wanted to, you could choose to turn gay and be sexually attracted to other men? Do you think you could ever be tempted and enjoy having sex with men, and have the desire for that kind of relationship? If you think that you could never have the desire to be with a man and enjoy having sex with men, that means that your sexual orientation probably isn't something you could ever change, no matter how badly you wanted to be gay. What do you think causes homosexuality? Like I said before in my comment above, I don't know what the cause was in my case. I have never really believed the argument that gay people are "born that way", but I am sure that your sexual orientation isn't fluid, and that it will never be possible for me to find women sexually attractive, even though I would give my right arm to be straight.
@@djhutcherson6761 I don't recommend engaging with him, he's just making assertions and playing games, not worthy of your time.
@Viktor Petrov Sin is a choice. The fact that being gay is not a choice proves it's not a sin.
@Viktor Petrov "It's a choice. All sin is a choice."
1. There is no "sin".
2. Your silly list of rules has little to do with real morality.
3. Who you are attracted to and the strength of that attraction is the result of very complex biology and physiology and is NOT a choice of the individual.
I like "we are in the world but not of this world." That helps me a lot.
@yellowleaf Ohhhh. Thank you for sharing that. I find myself getting caught up in the wordly ---can I say "crap?" Like you said, "built on sand."
I appreciate your post. I hope you have a good, positive, productive day.
@yellowleaf I respect your search for truth and your study of the Bible.
I am intrigued by the people who so adamantly refuse to believe. Like you, I pray for them, and hope they find some peace somewhere. I
In your opinion, Yellowleaf, what makes some atheists so angry? Some atheists don't seem to even think about God and don't seem to care. It is the angry, vicious atheists who intrigue me. Why are they so angry about something in which they don't believe?
We're ambassadors part of a Kingdom not of this worldly flesh mentality. So as we live in the spirit we see God's laws and love.
@@yaheard215 I like "not of this worldly flesh mentality. It's interesting to me how different I feel being a Christian. Do you feel that?
Yes, its another way saying we are full of bullshit.
Honestly I'm just here to see how the other half thinks. You can't step into an argument without listening to the person you disagree with.
Darn right!
@Mason Moore This woman might not agree with this video, but she's respectfully stepping out of her echo chamber, which is a great thing to do
than who’s gonna talk first?🤔
@@AJCVYC93 thank you.
@@eric-qs8ii doesn't really matter. I'll know how he or she thinks even if I talk first because of this video. I can see where they come from and understand what they're saying.
Sorry but your bible based bigotry towards other people behavior that does not impact on you is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. I do not care what your bible says about anything, it is NOT a moral basis and your ignorance and judgemental attitude shows that with perfect clarity.
You need to be born again.
@@jasonjasper9097 Nope. I have no use for your death cult. I saw through it's nonsense as a teenager.
@Possum I am here calling out the BIGOTRY and IGNORANCE of this homophobia. I am calling it out this ignorance because I have seen first hand the suffering brought on by these holier than thou assholes talking about what they know nothing about. You have NO right to tell others how to live their lives.
@@walkergarya are you going to call out the racism among alphabet people too ?
@@stopcensorship7705 If that becomes a problem, I will but I am not holding my breath.
Yes, divorce hurts children. Almost as much as having parents who constantly fight and visibly hate each other
Every one of my siblings and I were unable to form meaningful relationships due to watching the godly, toxic marriage of our parents who only stayed together because "god said so". Took years of therapy for us to learn what basic respect was in a relationship. Turned out we werent the only family in this situation. It was the common experience of the majority of kids we grew up with in our fundamentalist christian community that was unsurprisingly riddled with domestic violence and child abuse.
What does that have to do for homosexuality
@@palatasikuntheyoutubecomme2046 i take it you didnt watch the video. Otherwise you would know why Jordi addressed what was discussed in the video....which wasn't just homosexuality.
@@jaclo3112 You didn't really have Christian parents then .
@@saved217 no, that's exactly what Christian parents act like
Though i havent been able to accept homosexuality completely but if we go by the logic that marriage should be accredited by Society, there was a time when interracial marriage too was considered to be a sin.
Also, marriage wasn’t about love in ancient days; it was about biological heirs and economics. Marriage has changed and why is it that only Christians get to decide what it is and isn’t?
Here's a tip for you, (free, at no charge) homosexuality isn't wrong.
Now with that out of the way you can get on with living your life and let others live theirs.
@Possum Are you talking about he 1961 team (male & female) that died in a plane crash?
there are well documented risks associated to such lifestyle.
@@stopcensorship7705, _"there are well documented risks associated to such lifestyle."_
If you don't like the risks, then don't live the lifestyle (whatever "the lifestyle" is supposed to mean). No one is trying to force you to live such a lifestyle, are they?
@Darth Sidious, writes _"It [homosexuality] is wrong"_
If you feel that way then I recommend you not do it. But since other disagree with you and their actions don't affect you in any way what so ever, hows about you just leave them be?
@Darth Sidious What makes it wrong?
GAY RIGHTS Also like stfu this comment section is anoyingggggg, Like im gonna go marry a man, and you all can go cry abt it. Also hello fellow gays in the comments, you aren't alone!
@@Wshm10 nah i think gay is amazing
@@Wshm10 brainwashing? Im just living my life. Love is love. You can be anyone you want to be, you can be free
Did you not just watch the video?
@@timothyshevchuk8280 wdym
You dont 'have marriage', pagans married long before christianity or judaism or islam existed. Yes, pastors shouldn't be forced to marry gays or pagans, but they don't get to keep them from marrying through secular means. Marriage is human, you don't get a monopoly on it. This is what it's all about.
You’re honestly comparing pedophelia and incest with two gay adults loving each other? Shame on you. You have ZERO right to post videos and make yourself sound educated and reasonable when you make statements like this.
Also, by your logic I’m assuming that neither of you ever have sex out of pleasure - only for purpose for reproduction?
Homosexuality is not objectively wrong because religion is not a fact. Without religion there is nothing wrong with it
@UTube how exactly
@UTube Heterosexuals use it for that purpose too. FYI, even heterosexual men sometimes :)
@UTube why is there a pleasure organ there then? It also triggers orgasm.
@UTube biology. Look it up.
@UTube have you heard of the prostate?
Ghastly. A series of convoluted and fallacious claims aimed at justifying your intruding upon, judging, condemning and restricting other people's personhood, liberty and consensual relationships. In short, an argument for a theocratic dictatorship.
Indeed!
Even CDC stats should be warning enough against such lifestyle. Yet they all ignore science for pleasure.
@Possum how are things in 3rd grade these days?
@@stopcensorship7705 interesting to see someone advocating lesbianism here
Why should my religion dictate the lives of others?
It's not dictate gadha
If they follow the same religion
AcerMaple72
"Why should my religion dictate the lives of others?"
Go tell that to the Right-Wing Conservatards. They want their interpretation of Christianity to dictate the lives of others and take away their first amendment rights (especially freedom of speech, freedom of choice, separation of "church" and state, freedom of and from religion, etc). I'm a Center-Left Christian, and I can tell you this, If the Right-Wing Conservatards had their way, society would regress back into the Dark Ages, and everyone except for the Right-Wing Fundies (non-Christian religious people, Atheists, progressive Christians, etc) would be jailed, beaten, tortured, killed, burned at the stake for questioning, disagreeing with, or rejecting Right-Wing FundaMENTAList ideology. They already started bringing fascism to America, taking people's basic rights away, and attempting to dictate the lives of others like banning sex education, birth control, safe and legal life-saving abortion for women who were abused by men and little girls who were abused by child predators, gay marriage, gay adoption, interracial marriage, medically assisted suicide for people who are in excruciating pain all the time and have very little to no quality of life, etc, etc. Your beliefs and you values are between you and Jesus/God, it's none of the Conservatives' business, so when they try to lecture you or try to force you to live by their messed up Right-Wing FundaMENTAList ideology, tell them to fuck off, that's what I do.
It shouldn't
eexactly, religion is an IDEOLOGY at the end of the day, not everyone has to believe in it
Be born again. Accept Jesus as your Lord and savior! There is power the name of Jesus to break every chain.
@Steve Roberts who is your authority?
@Steve Roberts not the God of the bible.
Why would God not condemn homosexuality? It is not in the created order.
@Steve Roberts negative sir. God did not make a race of homosexuals. He created woman to be his helper as it was not good for man to be alone. Spin scripture any way you like, it is incorrect. I suppose you also believe in evolution as well? You cannot justify homosexuality, no matter how much you twist scripture, 2 men cannot created a child. Never have never will.
@Steve Roberts and by the by the way you talk about the bible, God is not your authority. You seem to think you are.
@Steve Roberts If you were a Christian, born again believer in our Saviour, you would not diminish God as you do.
The question isn’t about marriage though, it’s “How can homosexuality be wrong if it doesn’t harm anyone” as a gay atheist who wouldn’t get married, you’ve just skimmed over the whole question by banging in about same sex marriage rather than the sexuality itself.
You are denying yourself a happy life, in love with somebody else, having a family, children to raise..because your faith makes you think you’re an abomination - you are not. You are loved and would still
be loved for accepting yourself. You are enough, even without somebody else telling you that you are.
@@breakingboundaries3950 you don’t need a partner nor children to have a happiness. If they don’t want that, then they don’t have to. Not everyone desires a family or romantic relationships.
@@christworks3458 well of course if somebody doesn’t want that they shouldn’t feel pressured to, but neither should they be pressured not to do something they do want to do.
😂😂😂
As a gay cancer patient, I have to ask what the hell makes Christian think they have the right to force gay people to live and die alone?
I ask this because people with partners in cancer wards are more likely to survive than those who don’t have partners.
When the question is asked; "How can homosexuality be wrong if it doesn't harm anybody?" the argument is over.
Morality is all about what helps or harms people. Homosexuality does not harm anyone. Therefore, there is nothing immoral about homosexuality.
That’s because Christians aren’t concern about it harming anybody. They are concern about them gambling with their souls when they receive the final judgment from God
@@heseesyou582 Wrong. Christians are simply concerned with asserting the primacy of their particular myth over all beings. It's a problem among the adherents of the Abrahamic myths. They all seem to think everyone else must follow it just as they do.
@@GavinAlexander. if you heard that Christians are suppose to make people believe in God, you heard wrong. Christians mission is to spread the gospel around the world. Christians will tell people what they are doing is wrong and a sin in Gods eyes. If the person or people don’t listen, then that’s their choice, God doesn’t force anybody to follow him so Christians should do the same.
@@heseesyou582
Your attempt at gaslighting is cute. This isn't about what I've heard. It's about the history of those who follow the Abrahamic myths. A history of a collection of people who, as Christopher Hitchens put it so well, all claim to have this belief that will bring about peace and happiness, yet cannot seem to be peaceful or happy unless everyone else believes it exactly as they do. If you believe this myth, it governs YOUR life alone. End of story.
@@GavinAlexander. so your basically saying that this Arabic myth is suppose to govern my life alone? Right?
As a atheist I cat help but laugh.... I don't have a shit if someone if gay or straight.. I'm not s pervert thinking of someone's sexual orientation all the time
Then why are you here? This discussion is for gays and straights that DO give a shit about God and heaven.
Same i don't care if you are gay or straight or what your race or religion is
There is no such thing as them and us. We are all sinners. The only thing saves us is blood of Jesus, covers all sinns. My God is strong fortress, I am safe in him.
@Ddot Norreh We must pray for them. Blood of Crist is more than enough for all.
there is no greater us and them concept than the sheep and the goats, heaven or hell.
@saint of jesus Christ a convenient way to dodge guilt and resist personal growth which is why christianity in its fundamental form is psychologically detrimental.
Brad Crampton the Bible is all about pain in life and then growing from it lol what are you talking about? 😂
The spirit and flesh can not meet.
Let GOD be true and every man a liar.
So you're lying right now
@@katamas832 so are you 😆 hehe
In this life, there is truth in alot of things but God is the Ultimate Truth. Let those who are without God be as liars because they Deny The Ultimate Truth. Because if you Deny the Truth, Your a liar.
When we tell the Truth, We uphold it and Strengthen its Hold.
@@lionbolt2136 No, if you deny the truth, you are either ignorant or delusional. Which creationists often are.
What's the ultimate truth? How do you know it is ultimate?
@@katamas832 Truth is not a concept, is a person, just like love is not a concept, but a person. You don’t know Who Truth and Love is, then what you think you know doesn’t matter.
Three heterosexual men speaking on homosexuality 🙄. That's like three white men speaking on African American culture.
More accurately 3 racist white supremacist speaking on African American culture.
And you know the black one is too happy to feel equal 😂😂😂
Get the hell out of people's bedrooms, ultimately it's between God and the individual. Again leave those people aline and tou do you. That's why people are leaving the church!
When the bible says homosexuality is wrong but fails to condemn pedophilia, I cannot consider the bible to be a moral guide.
Or when it approves of slavery, rape, genocide, infanticide, pillory, terrorism, misogyny, and discrimination against handicapped people. Yeah, it's not a good "moral" guide at all.
the bible does NOT say homoxesuality is wrong. it's just people have convinced themselves it does.
Mark 9:42
“Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him if a great millstone were hung around his neck and he were thrown into the sea.
@@MusicalRaichu Leviticus 18:22
You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.
@@virtuoussoulhealer3644 if homoxesuality was wrong, you'd expect it say "men don't lie with men" and "women don't lie with women". it says neither.
the hebrew is unclear but the conventional rendering says not to use a man or boy like a woman in bed. under patriarchy, women were considered inferior, so a male taking a woman's role was denigrating.
regardless, haven't you heard we no longer follow the OT law? the news went out 2K years ago, I'm surprised you haven't heard.
Christian really have a problem with keeping their religion to themselves. Same sex relationships has been going on throughout history, you can’t change nor deny that.
What happened to the city of Sodom?🤔🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
@Nathan Desta Jesus himself stated that it was because they didnt show kindness to those who seeked shelter...
@Nathan Desta okay, but that just means that their lust in general was bad. Not per se which gender each angel and human had so that wouldnt really say anything about gay rights or wether or not it makes senses for them to get married, right?
@Nathan Desta and in the end they were angels so their "strange flesh" was not human so... dont try to fuck with angels?
@Nathan Desta yeah, I get what youre on about. I dont even think it matters what the bible say about these things since I'm not a Christian and dont believe that it is the word of god or any god for that matter
@Nathan Desta one thing tho. Saying that god wouldnt let the bible get polluted is not really true since it has a lot of other awful stuff in it(slavery, genocid etc that he orders his people to commit) so I dont really see why homophobia would be out of the question. Unless you think these things are A okay
Welcome ladies and gentleman to the mental gymnastics face off the the century.
i know plenty of gay atheists who have a better shot at getting into heaven than many christians.
Why you lying too yourself
@@hueyfreeman5947 because no straight man should care that much or hate somebody for being different the bible literally says love people and you've taken it upon yourself to take that as be the same
Really, how is that? Are you under the impression you that can earn your way in? Where do you get that from?. If you believe in Heaven, something must have convinced you that it exists.. So, lets start there... btw atheists don't believe there is God or heaven. But what made you believe in heaven? If your saying they have a better shot at getting heaven. Then that must mean you believe there is one..That's means you also believe God exists because he created heaven. NO?
@@scooteranthony6297 buddy strawmanning the shit of of nothing
@@ezrazentor7725 Nobody said nothing about hating, God does not hate them. God loved all man so much, he nailed his son to a cross for all man's sin. Because the penalty of sin, is death and separation from him for ever. Se he came into world as man,.. to give his life as ransom for many. Because he was without sin. And only by believing in his grace and sacrifice through his son, can we enter the kingdom of heaven. His laws are how we should live on earth. and also the reason, we'd never get to heaven without Jesus.. because man violates everyone of those commandments at some point in his life.. even by thinking about killing, or adultery,..you've done it according to God. . And when you except Christ into your heart. You don't to HAVE to live rightously, You WANT to, You won't be perfect, you'll still sin,.But, your sin has been paid for, you just have to trust and live by Jesus's example. Not any preachers, or Pope.. They are human, and they will fail you,...
Well at least these people can have a conversation with the most polite manners and cordiality in the world.
Watching people politely debate a prejudicial viewpoint has an odd way of being worse than watching the knuckle-draggers scream about it.
You're clearly a bigot if you can't respect that these people have a different viewpoint than you do. A lot of people think there is something spiritually and/or morally wrong with homosexuality.
Admittedly so.
+Greed777
Rightly so.
Quite quite.
They spend the whole time talking about how gay marriage is wrong and make assumptions that all gays are non-monogamous and didn't answer the question.
What if there are two homosexuals in a monogamous relationship whom keep to themselves and live a life of faithfulness and integrity? There is not one logical argument anyone can make as to why this scenario would be amoral.
Just saying "because it says so in the Bible" is NOT a good enough answer and having a response as such is a genuine insult to God's intelligence.
These arguments aren't logical at all. Two adults who don't conform to heteronormative, Christian principles, who choose to marry with lucid minds, are not harming anyone else. Pushing your religion on others is the real breach of ethics. Thank goodness we now have equality in marriage!
These people seem to think we live in a theocracy, but we don’t so why would we base our laws around unverified scripture.
You do know we humans are born either male & female right?
@@KhalilSonic What does that have to do with the op?
@@KhalilSonic Biological sex exists? Damn bro thats crazy!!1!1!
@@basicytgamer9983 so how do you see Homosexuality being natural when it clearly isn't
I think that half of these commenters didn't even watch this video.
David Hudgins It's really hard to get through when you want to yell at the screen.
I do yell at the screen.
David Hudgins there's no god
It is okay to be gay
It is okay to act on your 'gayness'
You didn’t answer the question that you yourselves asked, “Can homosexuality be wrong if it doesn’t harm anyone?”
I wasted 10 minutes of three guys rambling about marriage and divorce without even actually tackling homosexuality and it’s problems. Maybe that’s because there are no problems and none of you can give real answers without consulting the Bible
Yeah. They presented same sex marriage as a slippery slope to a 50 year old man marrying a 12 year old girl, completely ignoring the issue of whether there is harm in such relationships, as there obviously is in such an unbalanced relationship as the latter.
And looking again, "Can homosexuality be wrong ...", wasn't even the question they asked. It was " *How* can homosexuality be wrong...". It is clear that they started with the conclusion that it is wrong, and are desperately trying to find reasons.
@@djhalling God says it's wrong. Good enough.
@@briantitchener4829 If that's what they thought, then they should have just said that and saved ten minutes. Of course, it wouldn't have convinced anybody who didn't already believe it, any more than it does when you say it.
@@briantitchener4829 I loved this reply🤣🥰
So it's your god's design to give non hetero behavior to 1500 animal species, but say it's offensive only in one of them? Weird.
Sex is not just about children, unless you're saying infertile people can't have sinless sex either. Sex is about trust, enjoyment, exercise, and giving. If you think it's just about children, I pity your partners.
Marriage is also not just about children. If non hetero people want to raise children, let them. Plenty of screwed up kids come from hetero parents; hetero parents have just as many issues as non heteros.
The bible says nothing about non-hetero marriage.
It's a huge red herring. Marriage to a minor has demonstrable harm. Absolutely.
It's not illegal to have a child without being married. No state penalizes that situation at all. Laws have no interest in dictating marriage as one thing or another beyond their bigoted religious roots.
Saying "if animals do it, it must be ok" is a bad argument. Many animals also do things such as eat their young, or practice incest, yet they are obviously not ok.
@@hamburglar8794
*"Saying "if animals do it, it must be ok" is a bad argument."*
Correct. Which is why you erected that Strawman argument, to knock it down.
@@GavinAlexander. That was your argument in your first paragraph. You said that in God's plan, it is apparently only offensive for humans to practice homosexuality, and fine if animals do it. I am just pointing out that your logic doesn't hold up under further scrutiny. There are many things that animals do that are completely unacceptable for humans to do.
@@hamburglar8794
*"That was your argument in your first paragraph. You said"*
Pay attention. I'm not the person who wrote that.
*"that in God's plan, it is apparently only offensive for humans to practice homosexuality, and fine if animals do it."*
No, that's not what the person said. You added in "and fine if animals do it".
*"I am just pointing out that your logic doesn't hold up under further scrutiny."*
No, you were erecting a strawman of the original commentator's argument, falsely claiming they were saying something is okay if animals do it. That's not what they said.
*"There are many things that animals do that are completely unacceptable for humans to do."*
Just because you double down on your strawman, doesn't mean it's not still a strawman.
@@hamburglar8794Clearly you failed to interpret their argument correctly. They simply stated that it would be highly hypocritical of a theoretically omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient deity to proclaim that homosexuality is only prohibited in humans yet make no mention of it in regards to other animals. Thereby brining this deity’s perceived benevolence into question, i.e. If such a deity is shown to be sadistic considering their inclination to condemnation of innocents that have committed no offence other than failing to comply with the nonsensical criterion set by themselves under a masquerade of “moral superiority” and “purging of injustice”, are they really a deity one should worship? Are their ideals really what one would hope to enshrine?
Wow. These guys are insanely out of touch.
I suppose getting all your morals and world view from a book written thousands of years ago doesn’t allow for much personal development.
The dude on the left said he shouldn’t have to hire homosexuals😂
thank god i found another sane person in this comment section
Same here Jonas simkins. I only watched this video because I’m trying to understand why people are offended by normal down to earth gay people (there are some crazy people who have sorta occupied the movement these days lol) who just want to live there lives.
I didn’t find those answers in this video lol just more ‘god said’ BS
I kind of agree with you. People shouldn’t be forced to hire women, black people, asians, disabled people, gingers....etc if they don’t want to either I suppose. I think tho that we can agree choosing not to associate/hire someone based entirely on a bias against the category you chose to put them in is something we are trying to evolve beyond as a society and for good reason.
To Jonas simkins-
Same here buddy🤟
@Wombat but if the employee is only not hired cuz theyre gay then that’s discrimination.
Gay people deserve a happy sexual relationship also
You'll never find it in another man's pooh. So sad, too bad.
@@koala5054 your social class is showing
@@kmt8825 why are you bringing his social class in this argument?
Whut? "Children have always been brought forth in monogamous marriage"? You should try reading the Bible. Abraham had one wife (his half-sister, by the way) and at least one concubine. We don't _know_ if Isaac had any concubines, but there's nothing to indicate that he would have thought it was wrong. Jacob had _two_ wives and _two_ concubines. Mosaic Law - God's Perfect Law - allows for marrying more than one woman. Gideon, a champion of Israel, had two wives. King David, who was "a man after the God's own heart" had _eight_ wives. Polygamy and concubinates are _everywhere_ in the Old Testament.
Those families from the OT that you mentioned had a lot of conflict and problems in the home. Hence why God said that we should only have one man and one wife.
@@efearioga5117 Where did he say that again? Not in the Mosaic Law.
Also, God really shouldn't have to learn that multiple wives lead to problems. He should already know.
@@Valdagast It says so in the NT (specifically in Paul’s letters)
@@efearioga5117 There is conflict between monogamous couples as well: Adam and Eve, Isaac and Rebecca, Samson and Delilah. There is conflict in all relationships. Just because there is conflict means it's a sin?
I think you guys should differentiate man's will from God's will.
IF ANY GAYBABY WATCHED THIS FOR INTELLECTUAL REASON, I DO COMMEND YOU AND HOPE YOU STAY LOVING TOWARDS YOURSELF AND YOUR NATURE, WHICH IS NOT A SIN! Thankfully there is in the US Constitution a division of state and church. There are many loving and healthy lifelong monogomous lgbtq relationships. We raise loving and caring families, and we're citizens who have the right to have marriages recognized by the state. To have the same inheritance, tax, and other social rights that any married person deserves. You can believe your little book, but morality, and monogmous homosexual relationships long predate the bible. And it is not a sin, nor is it a choice, nor is it nothing comparble to lieing or divorcing. Nor is it a human odity. Penguins are a classic case of animals that have life long monogmous homosexual partnerships, adopting eggs and contruibuting to the life and love of the colony. Giraffes, lions and so many more, homosexuality is so prevalent in the animal kingdom, it is not unnatural. Certainly not a sin. It is love. It is caring and healthy relationships. And should be respect and honored as all love should be.
@Benz thats why in the U.S. thankfully we have the division of state and church. Because religion has no authority in deciding what is good for mental health, nor what is ethical, nor is it the foundation to human morals. Living a prosperous life with healthy kids and a home and living as a law abiding citizen that does charity and helps his community is a blessing, doesnt harm anyone, and lives in a truly empathetic way.
Idk you people use the animal kingdom for reference... like Bible thumper if you're going to use the thing then be 100% with it. Because you forget their is rape in their and killing their own children just to have more sex to. Animal kingdom is not free it's pretty much a fixed system , you are not fixed you're free to do w.e you want. So use something else for your references and be 100% with it don't go cherry picking.
The only problem I see with homosexuality is their is no real rules to it, you can do and be w.e you wan this you have cult alphabet gang... which should be burned to the ground or sealed away or something.
@@twistedlime1975
*"Idk you people use the animal kingdom for reference..."*
Wrong. The animal kingdom is used to point out its occurrence in nature, thus countering the fallacious claim that same-sex attraction is unnatural. See, what you bigots do is fallaciously try to invalidate same-sex attraction by claiming it's not natural. First, that's nothing more than an argument from nature logical fallacy. Secondly, is false. What can be observed occurring/arising in nature, is natural. And same-sex attraction has been recorded all throughout nature, therefore, it is natural. The animal kingdom is pointed to as evidence of its natural occurrence, not as a reference for how humans can behave.
*"like Bible thumper if you're going to use the thing then be 100% with it. Because you forget their is rape in their and killing their own children just to have more sex to. Animal kingdom is not free it's pretty much a fixed system , you are not fixed you're free to do w.e you want. So use something else for your references and be 100% with it don't go cherry picking."*
Stop. The argument isn't, "it's in nature so it can be done". That's a gross misunderstanding on your part, or you're intentionally erecting a strawman argument.
*"The only problem I see with homosexuality is their is no real rules to it, you can do and be w.e you wan this you have cult alphabet gang... which should be burned to the ground or sealed away or something."*
Yes, we get it, you're a bigot. Spewing your bigotry isn't the presentation of an argument. It's just exposing your bigotry.
thank you sir
So then by this logic.. birth control, oral and anal sex, and pulling out are all sins too..
More bigotry dressed up as Biblical command.
@Koala Reported for hate speech.
@Karl Dubhe lmao man no need to try and slap these clowns I bet you anything these are old white guys who think they’re still in their prime
So near the beginning of the video let's say starting at 2:30 . It is private it's not harming anybody it is a civil rights issue and it won't harm the church because you are to separate church and state. His argument for this is that you don't separate church and state and it will start harming the church. And in no popular opinion is it OK for an older gentleman to be with an underaged person. He's trying to use sensationalized examples to exaggerate a point. Even if it was a popular opinion we have a standard for age of consent. Also for him to say later on in the video that's how the the world is a ridiculous statement is a bit of a hypocritical statement. . back in biblical times it was OK for a much older gentleman to be with somebody 12 or 13. It was OK to start your family at that age in back then if you didn't start your family at that age you risked not starting a family at all. times were different back then but according to him you can't use the phrase that's how the world is. Because that is "ridiculous"
the greeks, practiced homosexuality fyi. :)
"x group did such, so it is permissible"
really stupid logic
@@shidfard And a group (Christian bigots) says it is wrong....
really stupid logic
@@shidfard Wait, your logic on another thread was "x group did such, and its my opinion that doing so caused them to fail, so its not permissible". It's amusing how you can see "x group did such, so it is permissible" is "stupid logic", yet cant see how YOURS was the exact same stupid logic in reverse.
@@GavinAlexander. You can't compare the two? Are you really that dense?
@@shidfard Who are you to say what is permissible. Its permissible if its legal. Case closed.
it’s easy to say that being gay is wrong when you’re straight and have never experienced same sex attraction
lol those type of people are funny they try to find a hole so they can stimulate themselves it's like if a earhole was large enough to fit their members in they would probably go for that if it was safe. goofy people wanting that interaction 👨💻🐒 its low key sad
@@explodingheart2824 gay people are not different from straight people. We humans found out that we love pleasure, and we're civilized enough to know how to pleasure ourselves without hurting anyone. Your God or your book don't dictate what is moral and what is not, neither does nature.
“We don’t hide the truth and place it under a bushel” 🙌🏼
homophobics do
@nickj14711 true, homophobics are not even christian anyway.
@nickj14711 yeah, thats homophobics for ya!
@nickj14711 I get ur not educated on the bible but God said the old law is dead now so why are u calling God a liar?
@nickj14711 but I agree......so Im not doing it for selfish reasons
I lost brain cells watching this video
May you receive them back in Jesus name
@@IyanLeol that's the best response ever bro. I love it hahah!
Me too 😅😅😆
I just don't understand why it's always compared to pedophilia. Love is all you need sure but pedophilia is a completely different matter as it can happen heterosexually as well. With a mentality like that heterosexuality is wrong too. It's a deeper issue than homosexuality on its own when it enters the idea of pedophilia.
@@BorisVixen Sexual sin can include adultery , sex before marriage, porn, etc. so under that umbrella term it’s all essentially the same as pedophilia, right? Why not focus on existing bigger issues like that fact that marriages don’t last! Address the core issue of lacking love than to focus on consenting adults already in love. Because they’re so comparable as you say…what a joke!
As of June 2020, Voddie has stood firm on the word of God and has not conformed to this world, but has stood firm on the inerrancy and sufficiency of the word of God for every real world event and decisions.
Yeah now they want to force doctrine on 4, 5, 6 year Olds etc about transgender identity in schools Just focus on ACBs jeez....so sad.
did God speak directly to Voddie?
@@camerong5513 he speaks to us through his word. The Bible.
@@tazzyt5269 so God doesn't speak directly to you. Got it
@@tazzyt5269 I second that!
Three guys sitting around patting each other on the back for their same views is accomplishing EXACTLY NOTHING.
Precisely!
as if commenting about your frustration does.
I think the fact that we’re commenting on it shows it wasn’t at all done for them, but for communities that are interested in what Christians believe about marriage and homosexuality.
Worse. They are rallying hate.
@@stopcensorship7705 "Better out than in." - Shrek 3:14
You did not answer the question about what is harmful in homosexuality. You present it as a commandmend, not to engage in it. OK. That is true. Its in the bible. What is confusing is, that with f.e. murder or theft, it is obvious why this is wrong and how it harms people. But what harm does it, if a tiny percentage of gays marry each other or have sex in the first place?
As long as christians cannot come up with arguments parallel to the bible, they will not convince people. And it is possible, that the anti-gay rules are outdated. Maybe they made sense in ancient times, bc back then it was a means to distinguish from heathen cults and societies. Just like animal sacrifieces and weird rules about how to corporal punish your slaves and that you should stone your kids, if they dont obey. Is there any conclusive argument, why this rule should still apply in the 21st Century?
Here’s some arguments I can think of, some are devil’s advocate:
-Some ancient philosophers like Plato condemned it because he considered it to be an act of pure lust since it could not result in procreation.
-Gay subcultures tend to be highly promiscuous. The average number of partners a straight man will have in his lifetime is 7, for a gay man it’s 50. This is also a high contributing factor to the STD epidemic in the gay subculture as well.
-Gay subcultures tend to encourage hedonistic lifestyles with not a lot of moderation. Drug use is rampant as is unbridled kink practices.
-Many ancient philosophers (and some modern ones) believe engaging in same sex attraction long term makes men effeminate or keeps them from becoming fully masculine. An understandable anxiety if you lived in an ancient tribe because in those days if your men weren’t manly you got conquered by your neighbors.
@@TheNightWatcher1385 Thank you. These are valid arguments. I heard about the STD-aspect and it seems a real problem. The only problem that remains now is, how they can deal with it. Bc Celibacy seems not very realistic for most men. Even Jesus and Paul agreed to that. What should they do - being not interested in women? So called "conversion-Therapies" seem to do a lot of harm to gay people and not work out. Any idea about that?
@@petervonbergen5364 A decent question. One more argument against it I can think of is that for submissive men in gay relationships, they will inevitably receive anatomical damage since the male body isn’t designed to be penetrated. As they age, this often makes them incontinent.
I’d say that the idea that sexuality can never be changed is a pretty modern idea. The very term “straight” comes from “the straight and narrow.” This term originated from the phenomenon of gay men stopping their behavior and “going straight”, which apparently happened a lot in the past before our culture pushed this idea that it never happens. Amusingly, the term “straight” used to refer to a gay individual who had chosen to stop engaging in that behavior.
Tastes change. I used to love peas as a kid, now I hate them. I used to hate carrots, now I love them. Anything is possible.
@@TheNightWatcher1385 I am no expert on this. But all I read about studies and research points in the direction, that it is a given if you are gay and that it cant be changed. Some christians claim that, but its very likely that they just live in denial, because many victims of "conversion therapy" have admitted that they pretended to be straight now bc of the social pressure. That cant be good, if it leads to forced bigotry. The argument, that in former times it was seen that way is not very strong. In former times, people knew literally nothing about psychology and science. They believed the earth is flat. I have seen the testimony of many gay men, who claimed to have been always that way, as long as they can remember.
I admit this is not a comfortable view for christians. But should we not be honest more than apologetic?
Imagine christians - who ought to love their next like themselves - terrorize and invalidate people, who literally have no choice. They can either live as shamed outsiders or deny who they are. Isnt that horrible? Sadly we have no direct word from the lord about it. And Paul admitted that he offered his personal opinions concerning these things and always pointed out, if it is somehting directly from God that he speaks about. Is it possible, that Paul was a child of his time and just judged it as bad, bc everybody did?
On the other hand, the anal health issues are really disgusting. That cant be the way either. I am still confused about the issue.
@@petervonbergen5364 I don’t personally buy the idea that behavior can never change, and even if certain desires don’t change, every one of us deals with our own temptations and inclinations. This doesn’t give us free reign to engage in all our temptations. Some are prone to alcohol abuse and so take steps to avoid it. Some are more prone to violence and so try to keep themselves calm with various methods. Some of us suffer with depression and so go to therapy. Even if it were true that our base desires don’t change, our chosen behavior certainly can.
For example, I’ve had same sex encounters before, but I don’t consider myself gay and I haven’t had an encounter in years now, because I simply chose not to pursue them, combined with prayers for the strength to do so. Am I permanently changed? The temptation sometimes appears, but my behavior has definitely changed on that front and if it happens again I will repent and seek forgiveness as we should all do whenever we fall short.
If we don’t believe that anything is possible with God then we’re saying he’s not all powerful, and if he isn’t, why would he be worthy of worship?
They didn't make one good point about it being wrong in the whole video.
It's contrary to God's design, nature, society, community, the human body. It's pretty straight forward. Wrong has to do with morality. And God is the only one that has authority over morality. He's designated it as wrong.
@@Monzerratz You just cant help yourself with all these troll accounts.
It's three straight guys pontificating about something they neither understand or even want to.
@@Monzerratz God does not exist and it is only a guide to ignorants. Others should not live based on your lies.
Anyone else notice that they didn't answer the question?
It's 2021 and only 1 of these dudes hasn't walked this issue back a bit or try to reframe it.
Which one
@@emeldacampbell417 The gentleman Voddie Baucham, big fella on the left.
@@EGM369 kudos to Voddie, my big brother in Christ. He is increasingly becoming the voice of John the Baptist in our society, something we have been lacking for decades. Great shall be his reward in heaven!
Lol, hypocrites.
Brian, why are you spreading lies and rumors? It's ungodly and gross. JD Greear and Russell Moore have not walked back on this issue. You're being slanderous.
"Homosexuality is present in over 500 hundred species. Homophobia is only present in one. If an insect can get over it so can you"- Some Random Guy On Gay TikTok
OMG I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU QUOTED THAT
@@dimitrifeher1232 I knew my extensive hours on tiktok would pay off one day.
@@verafosnow5858 you should get a life. My gay fathers are using that shit app. I live them more than anything, they adopted me and made me feel special and part of a family. But that is not an excuse to use tiktok. They think that I feel embrassed by them being gay, bur it's actually what they do on that app. I'm gonna call the orphanage to bring me back.
anonymous person so... guess we can kill our children since species do it too 😊
@@chuksdagamer6523 The thing is, there is no victim to homosexuality. The only reason people are against it is because of a book written thousands of years ago with zero evidence to prove its true. People just mindlessly follow whatever's ina and use it for hateful, discriminatory, purposes.
pretty much none of this even makes sense in the context outside of your religion. honestly I was hoping for actual opinions without using gospel... if you cannot explain to me why its wrong without using your belief system in turn making us follow your religion in turn not freedom of religion from our end the point is mute. Its not wrong I am not christian nor will i follow christian doctrine unless that said doctrine just happens to be basic human decency if you can explain to me why its bad without using the bible than I would concede but at this rate you just seem like you want to push religion...
the only thing i can get behind is divorce hurts children but this isnt a homosexuality issue and even if it was a gay marriage they would still face this also. its entirely a different subject to tackle.
The funny thing is that this doesn't even make sense _within_ the context of the faith.
They're making things up mostly.
Child marriage is already legal in all but 4 states in the U.S. the attempt to outlaw it is opposed by religious groups, mainly Christian.
So the people in this video will be addressing that right? Will we see videos about the dangers of child marriage?
@Red Skull excuse me what?
Why child marriage is wrong in your opinion though? (If it is mutually agreed)
@@MoLtenMetaL7 What ? Because it's a child. If a child cannot consent to sexual actions, why would marriage suddenly be okay ?
@@gryph346 see but the Bible doesn’t condemn it so is it okay ?? even tho we know morally it’s wrong. That’s why it’s belived a lot of homosexual verses are about pedophilla.
@@marquicetaylor3941 You need a book that plenty of people myself included do not believe in to teach you about morality ?
If you wanna talk about the bible, Mary was suposedly between 13 and 14 years old when she gave birth to jesus. She would've been married or engaged to Joseph, which would make him 19 or 20.
So the god from the bible literally choose a child bride. Ew.
And you want morals out of this ?
I have a question for the religious people.
Sexuality doesn't change as things like conversion therapy don't work and actually severely harm the people who undergo it. This would imply that sexuality is a part of a person, and they were born with or naturally developed their sexuality.
Why would God purposefully put someone on this Earth who is gay or lesbian if it's wrong? Why would He set someone up for failure?
It's a test humans are tested with issues all the time and its a huge temptation god is testing what you can give up for him
@@mariemzobiri5793 So this all loving God wants people to give up happiness and the potential for a fulfilling, loving relationship for him? Why? To assert some weird sense of servitude and dominance? That's one thing I'll never understand. Some people phrase God as a loving father-figure that they have a personal relationship with and others phrase him as a dictator. Do you want to be ruled by someone who has a personal relationship with you or a dictator?
@@eve4685 cause heaven isn't easy it takes hard work and sacrifice for someone to deserve also am genuinely sorry I don't make these rules
@@mariemzobiri5793 Why does this benevolent God torture His creation in hell, or if you don't believe in hell, deny them happiness for something as simple as loving another person. Isn't the most integral teaching of most religions loving the people around you?
@@eve4685 you can love it's just forbidden to get sexual
When you are born again as a gay person & realize that the Bible was written over 1000 years ago by men, not GOD! Also Jesus never even mentioned or condemned Homosexuality!!!
I doubt anyone, let alone my target audience will see this, but there is nothing wrong with being lgbt. It is impossible to change who you’re attracted to, or the way you feel about your body. I understand that these people love to hate on queer people, but their opinion of you does not change one simple fact. You were born with infinite dignity, value, and worth, and nothing can take that away.
Why am I watching this video if I disagree with them?
The internalized homophobia and transphobia. I’ve tried to change. Many, many times. I have not succeed in the least.
Someone once told me, “it’s your relationship with god, not the church.”
Take this as you will
First of all: We don’t hate the people, only the sin involved. You’ve tried to change but you couldn’t, so perhaps you should consider reading the Bible if you haven’t, and praying to God as well. Because in Him and only Him alone can he truly help you. I promise that if you give Him a chance that he can change you for the good.
@Viktor Petrov that argument is useless. Obviously being attracted to children is wrong. I know that. That is because children cannot consent. Your argument about “they are responsible for acting on it” can just as well be turned around on you as a heterosexual male. So when someone is falling in love, feelings and emotions play no part in that? My guess is you’ve never been in love. Feelings and emotions are literally what make you fall in love 🤣 Reason and reality also play a part in falling in love, yes. Reason, to be able to look beyond just your feelings in order to see if the person is actually right for your and in order to see past manipulation that may occur, and reality. You need to present in this reality in order to fall in love. You cannot fall in love if the reality inside your head is so drastically different from the reality of this world.
I do agree that queer people need to seek help. They have received so much hate and some even murdered for not being able to change who they love. You straight people aren’t being killed for being straight. You Christian’s aren’t being killed for your religion. Some of you are, but nowhere near the numbers and severity that you make it out to be. I bet most Christian’s killed are not killed for their faith but for the way they treat others. The violence that exists today towards LGBTQ people, and POC for that matter, disgusts me. The color of peoples skin, of who their attracted to, doesn’t affect you. Gay marriage isn’t going to get rid of straight marriage. The LGBTQ community isn’t trying to erase straight people. They’re trying to get equality.equal treatment, because they are just as much human as anyone else.
Bizarre desires?
How so? Just because you don’t know what it’s like doesn’t automatically make it bizarre. You know what’s bizarre? How well over 500 species also practice homosexuality. Yet in only one species are their killed and raped for it. Can you guess which one? You guessed it! Humans! I don’t care what you believe, that doesn’t give anyone a right to rape, kill, hate crime, or harass anyone you please. Let alone shove your Christianity down our throats because you think we need to be fixed.
@@That1Guy112 I promise you that god cannot change me. You have not seen the countless hours I sobbed in pray begging him to change me because I so desperately believed there was something wrong with me. I have read the Bible, and I’m trying to slowly work through it deeply before I reside on my faith for myself, as I am currently agnostic. I just prayed the other night in fact. Just about my day. Asked god to give me a dream (which, when I was Christian, he seemed to follow through on more) about a girl I like I may like. That that if he did, it would mean that it’s was him who made me this way, and that there is nothing wrong with it. And he did. And before you say anything against it, he always answered when I asked for a dream about his second coming. That if was coming back, if he would give me a dream. Hell, he would give them without me asking 🤣
“Love the sinner, hate the sin”
I hate this phrase so much. It is so incredibly toxic. This phrase seems to spread love to the person, but it actually spreads hate. This phrase tells the person, that whatever it is you’re talking about, you hate the part of them that does that or feels that. It delivers a message that the person must stop immediately because it is so incredibly wrong and they’ll burn for all eternity with no escape. Like being LGBTQ or having premarital sex (which isn’t as bad as you make it out to be. I can plain more if you’d like). But these things are not wrong if they are don’t consensually. In fact, they aren’t even the same thing. If they are done unconsensually, that’s rape. Not sex or gay sex. Rape. And I don’t know what you believe to a T, but rape is wrong. Which, correct me if I’m wrong, but the Bible never condemns rape. Pretty bizarre to me.
@@ffrostedblakess I don’t understand how the phrase that I presented is “toxic.” What that means is that even though I don’t love the sin, I won’t condemn the person for it. It’s not saying I hate a part of that person at all, because that is not what us Christians believe in. Also, dreams have more meaning than you think. After all, Joseph was able to interpret pharaohs dreams which had an interesting meaning. Also, even though the Bible never explicitly states that rape is wrong, we as a people still define it as wrong and you can be given long sentences for doing such an act. This is because of our moral standards, and knowing what God days is sin gives us enough understanding to realize that God would say that rape is wrong because he never intended for that to happen.
You're absolutely right, do not even try to change for these people, you are who you are. There's nothing wrong with that. I do hope there are no people in your life who think homosexuality is a sin and you should change, especially your family, not anymore at least.
That's the rub. Outside of "because the bible told me so" homosexuality isn't wrong
even nature tells us that two men or women cant make a child. So its wrong.
@@rochellecalvin311 That's fucking stupid. So a hetero man with low sperm count or hetero barren woman in a relationship is wrong?
People who choose to have no kids at all are wrong? Despite adding more happiness to the world?
You're wrong and supporting dogma over reason.
You should be ashamed.
@@rochellecalvin311 Let's not conflate the term 'unnatural' with 'wrong' - we don't see glasses anywhere in nature, and yet many of us gladly wear them to help us see. We live vastly unnatural lives, because unnatural things (cars, clothes, domesticated animals, and arguably religion itself) can very well be good and inspire joy.
@@raptorlewis what I'm saying is the MAIN purpose of sex is to reproduce. If two men or women can reproduce then there will be no use for the opposite sex. Life is a cycle no one has to restart nature or anything, a man and a women comes together and have a baby, the plants gives us oxygen and we give them carbon dioxide so we need them and they need us for survival. It's a continuous cycle. Anyway I and The Lord Jesus loves you with whatever you choose but know it's wrong it's a sin, and every sin is punished. My wish is that you all find peace and love in Jesus. God bless and be safe.
@@rochellecalvin311 The cycle isn't really important. There will always be straight people, and the existence of gay people doesn't put the cycle at risk - we will continue to procreate as a species unless we all magically turn gay, which obviously won't happen and nobody wants.
So for what reason is homosexuality scrutinised against in the way that it is? It doesn't inhibit the circle of life or the natural progression of the human species - it's a harmless, self-contained notion which doesn't deserve to be labelled as "sinful" or transgressive.
When the bible says homosexuality is wrong but fails to condemn pedophilia, I cannot consider the bible to be a moral guide.
@Viktor Petrov Everywhere.
@Viktor Petrov Noah and Ham (Genesis 9:20-27),
Sodom and Gomorrah (Genesis 19:1-11), Levitical laws condemning same-sex relationships (Leviticus 18:22, 20:13),
two words in two Second Testament vice lists (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; 1 Timothy 1:10), and Paul's letter to the Romans (Romans 1:26-27).
(Genesis 9:20-27, 19:1-11), cultic prostitution (Leviticus 18:22, 20:13), male prostitution and pederasty (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; 1 Timothy 1:10), and the Isis cult in Rome (Romans 1:26-27).
Why don't you speak up about the horrible abuses perpetrated to children, rape, torture, murder at the hands of those who run these churches?!! Ah no, they are more interested in controlling who shall love who
Since when have we begun to define our walk with Christ without sacrifice. The truth is it cost all of us to follow Jesus. How then do we define love without sacrifice. Love costs. Just read “the Book.” No one is exempt. Everyone has a choice, obey or disobey. But if you love HIM more than you “love” self, you would make the sacrifice.
That's YOUR religion. There are billions of people in the world with other religions.
I believe you may be mistaking what we believe as followers of Christ. We seek all to follow HIM. Perhaps you knew that bug wanted me to express my for your taunting. In any case, I’ll oblige. We believe that there is only ONE way. So, no my comment does not include other faith systems, since we don’t recognize their eternal value. You may view this as arrogant, we accept this as Truth.
@@normantaylor1711 I have specifically asked thousands of Christians if Buddhist go to hell simply for not converting, and all but 3 have answered yes, and then tried to justify that evil. That is more than arrogance, that's willful immorality.
@@normantaylor1711 Here is an example of what I'm talking about. lion fish
5 minutes ago @Spurious Effect Buddhist do not go to Heaven, those non believers go to hell. That's the truth. Non believers can exercise their free will whether to accept Christ or not.
That's a pretty cavalier statement to make FOR SOMEONE ELSE. Assuming you're straight could you simply deny your heterosexuality for your entire life because you believe "a god" demanded it. Don't bother answering, because it is EASY to make this proclamation when you'll never have to put it to the test. This is why it's so fundamentally offensive to hear all these hetero christians flippantly tell gay people to "just deny" who they are while simultaneously NEVER having to live up to the same standards they set.
Homosexuality is not a decease..............They are born this way.......religion will not make it go away.
Each and every one of us has a gay family member.......they are human just like us non-homosexuals...WAKE UP.
Homosexuals are human and should not be mistreated because of their status but they should not be given special treatment either. What God says outweighs everything else. God says homosexuality is not what HE had in mind when HE created male and female. The only opinion that matters is God's. Be blessed.
This guy in the middle looks so much like Ryan Reynolds. I was about to say since when did Ryan Reynolds get saved?
I don't think you know who Ryan Reynolds is.
😂😂 I thought so too
Go to my channel. Look in the biblical Truth playlist. Find the show
TEST, TRIALS AND TRIBULATIONS..
It can help in the homosexual conversation..
Leave a comment. Also what does the bible say on l.g.b.t.q.+.. find out.. watch the show from start to finish and find out.
*Non à l'homophobie* calls kids "GARBAGE" and "PIECES OF SH*T". He says he will "make" them do things that they don't want to do. Why is he abusing kids like this?
You are a liar. Reported for harrasment.
The black dude is comparing a same sex couple/marriage with child abuse 💀
And here I am and thought we were already over that and a full grown man would know the difference between two adults being in a loving, consensual relationship and a man raping a child and forcing it into a child marriage. 💀
it IS child abuse. children can never grow up normal with 2 dads or 2 moms. 1 father and 1 mother, no exceptions.
@@theyellowshoe "children can never grow up normal with 2 dads or 2 moms" source? I have personally seen 2 dads being FAR SUPERIOR parents than a dad and mom.
You also kinda forget single parents. Single parents are child abusers?
@@theyellowshoe I'm guessing you made that up. Because you seem like the type to make up stuff and believe it. Then proceed to act like your little theory is fact.
@@theyellowshoe There were already made studies about LGBT+ parents and the children grew up loved and safe. Even without the LGBT+ Community, there are still children who grew up with a single parent or with their grandparents or were adopted or had a step parent...
It's the goodness of God that leads men to repentance.
"And by the fear of the LORD one departs from evil."-Proverbs 16:6
I don't want to repent.
@@flunkiebubs2002 - then you must not have thought much about eternity
@@Charles.Wright Well, I have
@@flunkiebubs2002 then your going to hell
i came in here thinking 2 sides are debating, all 3 are against homosexuality and they're having homophobic chat
What is homophobic? I'm bi and agree, I'm a homophobic?
@@triplemoyagames4195 you are bi and u agree homosexuality is wrong?🗿🗿🗿
@@hhhsss7432 I don't have to agree or disagree. If I believe in Christianity, I have to follow the rules. My feelings are irrelevaqant in the rules.
"The heart is deceitful above all things,
and desperately sick;
who can understand it?" (Jeremiah 17:9). So, yes I am of the viewpoint it is wrong. but people can do what they do. It's between God and them
@@triplemoyagames4195 ok u r confusing me rn u say u r bi but u also say its wrong in Christianity
@@hhhsss7432 Apologies let me try to clarify. I am bisexual yes. However my sexuality does no change the rules of Christianity. If I claim to be a Christian, I cannot pick and choose what rules to follow. The same way if I went to a different country I cannot pick and choose the laws I like to follow. I have to follow all of them, regardless of how I feel. Christianity says homosexual acts should not be committed. So even though I may be attracted to men, I must follow the rules and not sleep with men. Did that make sense or make it worse?
It very pathetic of not one not two but three men. Adult and matured to come together and say they are talking about why something is wrong and then say absolutely nothing relevant..One of you says "It is impossible, based on what sexuality is" referring to same sex marriage and proceeds to not even explain..no evidence not explanation just an authoritative proclamation..Another one of you says that the current debate on it being a private matter is a lie..Again proceeds to give no explanation why...then he continues to say that law is established under principle and precedent and gives an onroute that we the existence of same sex marriage comes other sexual vices..This coming from a black man whose ancestors faced discrimination....it is hilarious. How do you come to establish that homosexuality is a leeway or gateway to things like pedo****? Another one of you comes and says monogamy does not exist in same sex relationships...and again I ask...from whom and where are you making these assertion????....It is utterly disappointing to just see people spreading hate masked as the truth..with no evidence or concrete justification apart from belief...If there is a God I hope he had mercy on your damned souls.
Homosexuality is not just a form of sex, it is a form of love.
still didn't answer the question. who's it harming? no one. why's it wrong? it's not
@Κύκλωπας what do you mean by that?
@Κύκλωπας i've read a fair bit about LGBT history, what specifically are you referring to and what relevance does it have?
@Κύκλωπας quite a lot. I'm one of them 😅
@Κύκλωπας that gay relationships are pretty much the same as straight ones... Obviously
@Κύκλωπας depravity? lack of boundaries? total lack of respect for ones self and others?
what do you mean by this? these are subjective and not based in reality. who's being disrespected? what boundaries are being skirted? how is it depraved?
Those preachers are against divorce. Amazing. So I believe inside abusive relationships, the woman must suffer all the violence done by an abusive husband. And as well the children must suffer the abuses of a violent father?
I hope you were talking to divorce in general, as something that should not be done as easily.
Thats why God express not to be un equally yoked
It's not the preacher's against divorce ....it's Gods word against divorce (Malachi 2:16)
Marriage is a covenant made between two humans and God, not two humans that marry in ritual with a Priest supposedly under God. If there is abuse within a legally acknowledged marriage, it was never made in God’s covenant but a partnering made in the flesh. Following the path of the flesh will always lead to disaster. Legal marriage is only a flimsy manifestation based on True spiritual marriage, and legal divorce may not be equivalent to a spiritual divorce.
Divorce would hardly ever happen if people thought through their marriages more before getting married
One thing a covenant is between man and woman not the same gender
spoiler alert : it isn't
It’s self-harm.
@@TheNightWatcher1385 it's love, the only self harm comes from repression and hate.
@@TheNightWatcher1385 Self harm is being a judgmental bigot. No one likes them.
@@TheNightWatcher1385 I'm gay and am just fine, please grow up
@@gabrielamaya2964 The human body isn’t made for homosexuality. It’s a falsehood imposed by our own flawed desires.
they're saying: we love you, just don't love or care of have feeling for anyone, we'll be ok with you but only if you go far away and live alone forever without loving anyone even tho that love is so much pure and real than a lot of other "straight" love.
Thissss...
I discovered this to be true first-hand. I went through years of conversion therapy, “ex-gay” church programs, followed by years of celibacy. It was very lonely and miserable. Then I realized that God loves me unconditionally as I am. It was the teachings of men that asked me to deny my very capacity to love and express love. My life with God is so much deeper and richer than it was when I was hating myself out of a misguided attempt at holiness.
@@tres-adames nope. God does not love those who refuse to repent of their sinful ways. You must repent and believe the gospel. No repentance = no salvation.
@@tyc4587 no god loves them just the way they are. It kills you to see others happy and that is why you want to make others believe that God hates them. You are not Gods favorite child. He has helped my gay ass get through times he even blessed me so much. So you can suck it I don’t care.
God loves us soooooo much and you know it, you jealous bigot!
@@tyc4587 god said that to you?
The people discussing this could have done with someone at the table to discuss and challenge their ideas.
@Κύκλωπας these ideas have been challenged. You just refuse to acknowledge it
@Κύκλωπας
There are a number of things presented that I wouldn't accept without question.
One that stands out particularly is the "slippery slope" argument that is suggested in the video. This is made on the assumption that a "love is all you need" principle is being established through the acceptance of same sex relationships. I see no good reason to imagine this is the case and none is offered. Restrictions on the age at which someone can consent to a sexual relationship would be less appropriate. They would seem to have nothing at all to do with sexual orientation - why should/would they?
I suspect the argument is made in the video merely to paint a broad-brush view of same sex relationships as equivalent to abusive ones. But it isn't substantiated ... hence the interest in challenging it to see if there is any merit in it at all or if it is just invention.
I'm a female that cannot have kids. Does that mean I shouldn't get married? I also believe that divorce is necessary for many different reasons. It is said that divorce hurt kids, you know what hurt kids seeing their parent beaten, abused, emotionally and mentally a mess. I don't know if homosexuality is wrong or not, all I know is that I will try to love everyone as Christ said.
#1 God said, "If you love me, keep my commandments". IF you love God, you would have made sure that you became aware of his instructions that are all found in the Bible. #2 The Bible CLEARLY states what is allowed and what is forbidden by God. This is God's world that is run on God's rules. #3 IF you want to know God, then you want to know what his instructions are for your life. Part of what God expects you to do during your lifetime is spread the Gospel to the lost, which you have no idea what it says. What's stopping you from knowing him? How on earth can you love the lost "as Christ" unless you KNOW Christ?
Three straight guys pontificating about something they neither understand or even want to.
According to you, they must be straight, right? To each its own, I guess. I personally go with psychoanalytic theories and say that homophobia is just a result of repressed homosexual urges or a form of latent homosexuality.
@@BlueSky-ej7xn For some people maybe. But I know from my own experience that I just read my mistranslated Bible that said it's a sin. It wasn't latent homoxesuality, it was just following what I thought the Bible said.
Now I didn't buy the eisegesis - that the Bible says men marry women means that they must only marry women - which is what saved me. So when I checked the Bible in its original languages I changed my mind.
As for these guys, you're right, we don't know.
It seems unreasonable for you to believe that you should be able to restrict and control strangers lives simply because you want to judge people even when the bible clearly states that that is Gods place, not mans
You tell them buddy, you tell them!
But what did you expect from Right-Wing Conservatards?
Actually, God tells us we must discern and judge all things. We are not to condemn! Big difference. Matthew 7 "Do not judge" is the first 3 words of a chapter that explained how to "do not judge HYPOCRITICALLY" but to instead JUDGE RIGHTEOUSLY.
Read more than 3 words.
@@HOPE444LastHours the bible also says not to judge the 'sin' of your brother when you yourself are just as unholy in God's eyes. "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?" Matthew 7: 3-5. There is no human on this earth who can say they are sinless, so who are you to judge the 'sins' of others when you are a sinner yourself. That is Gods place, not ours. Not only that but the 'sin' that so offends you doesn't even effect you.
@@michelled.4874 don't get politics involved there are homophopic people on both sides.
I find it funny that they never actually answered the question. The question isn’t about marriage, it’s how is Homosexuality bad if it doesn’t harm anyone? Also, Christians always make the same mistake in an argument: They try to use Christian ideology in their arguments, when the opposing side does not believe in their ideology. You can’t say that you’re speaking “truth” when the person you’re talking to doesn’t believe in your version of “truth”. Outside the strict and harmful Christian lifestyle, there is nothing morally wrong with 2 men being happy in a relationship.
They actually answered a whole lot then just the question itself. They answered the why, the how and what is bad about it.
You know, that's definitely an interesting thought, it seemed like they kind of talked around the question in a sense...but you said the question isn't about marriage, but it in fact is. Either a homosexual, or straight marriage. Although that sentence doesn't even really work because of the fact that biblically, it's impossible to have a homosexual marriage. It's not a marriage. You also mentioned that they used christian stuff, and you're totally right. If the opposing side disagrees, it might not change their mind. But Voddie once said that even if they disagree, we can't just put away the truth. If someone says "oh I don't believe in the Bible" to put it away is to put away THE authority. I know you'll probably disagree with everything I said, but that's my stance.
You also mentioned there's nothing morally wrong with two men in a homosexual relationship, and I'm curious where you get your standard of morally wrong from?
2 happy got damn man just listen to what ur saying
@@vunenenthani6640 They really didn't. They more or less avoided the question directly and never gave a TL;DR response. They never really get to the point, but that's just me.
@@rgpearce5847 They indeed talked around the question. Well, you got to understand that not everyone believes in Biblical stuff. Your authority isn't my authority. When I meant morally wrong, I meant that in the sense that if they're happy and not hurting anyone in the process, why should it matter? "Morally wrong" to me is someone going out of their way to do something harmful to someone or a group of people. "Morally wrong" to me is to break morals and do something awful, either in general or to someone or something. If two men are happy being together, happier than forcing themselves to be with a woman, then I don't understand the problem.
Three men with the same opinion pretending to have a discussion. Now THAT is truly a farce.
Sorry guys, and especially Mr. Baucham: you want to say that homosexuals are harming the heterosexual marriage? If that would be so then there is nothing wrong with homosexuals , there is something wrong with heterosexual marriages as you propose them.
Civil rights in a society with different believes and worldviews and based on human rights cant respect believes when they are agaisnt human rights (the Tolerance paradoxon of Karl Hoppe).
Based on your interpretation of the bible you think homosexuals shouldnt be allowed to marry, tahst your interpretation, your believe and should never become a standart in our society as you support promiscuity and weaken those homosexuals who want to live in monogamous relationsships.
How in the fuck can you have a homosexual conversation without a single homosexual's input
I KNOW RIGHT! THATS WHAT I THOUGHT
Here! Here! Hypocrite Bastards.
Religion in a nutshell
UK Christians, how should we approach this topic as were far more liberal than USA, without compromising truth?
Just preach the gospel.
Praying for you sir. Stand strong in the Lord & in the power of His might!!
Mel L Thank you for your encouragement!
Accept the fact that being gay is an innate, natural, unchosen and unchangeable characteristic of the human condition, which God bestows upon some of His children. Teach this truth, and you will be on the right path!
Preach the truth in love. Preach about God and His love. It's difficult to understand the things of God if you don't fully understand God Himself. Hypocrisy and history have caused a skewed perception of God, represent Him correctly and rely on Him.
I also encourage you to read books by Ravi Zacharias, one of the leading apologists out there. Check out his TH-cam videos too!
If marriage is thought to be a religious institution then it should be separate from the state.
Wrong.
Lol i love this 😆 in a good way
@@dove6069 No, you are wrong. There are thousands of religions and all members of each faith truly believe in their religion. Our society will fall apart if we do not separate church from state. It is unfair and dangerous.
Marriage is a legal institution, not necessarily a religious one.
@@devinligtelyn915 I agree!
*The purpose of sex:*
To form a deep bond between two individuals
that they would surround each other emotionally
and in that they will then surround a child
and together support that child.
Not a toy.
But can still be love
between two married men
and two married women.
The Bible says "Do not lay with man as you would with woman."
That means if you are a man who loves a man,
this man will fulfill you in that he is a man.
He will not fulfill those parts of you like a woman.
He will fulfill those parts of you like a man.
*Is having a same-sex lover a terrible or evil decision?*
It is not.
*Is having a same-sex lover a VERY BIG decision?*
Yes, it is a choice one must make
maturely with careful thought.
They will not fulfill you the same exact way as
an opposite gender individual will.
But in alternate ways, yes, they will still fulfill you.
Do you love them enough to still let them fulfill you this way.
That would be your own answer to think over.
But why marriage? Like yall make up so many things why not make your own marriage up and leave Christianisnity alone about it? Yall even have false Christian churches with drags preaching and adding to the Bible.. that and their is no covenant ( I don't think) with gay marriage.
@@twistedlime1975
What is wrong with you? Christianity did not invent the social institution of marriage, nor is it the arbiter of the social institution of marriage, nor does it own the social institution of marriage. The arrogant sense of supremacy that your kind has is mind-boggling.
This is not about Our human way, it is about God's way. He has clearly designed a plan that is best for all mankind because He is our creator & His love for us is never ending. We cannot try to justify a human desire with what we think God thinks. Same gender people must not act on sexual attraction. God understands how hard that can be for people just as he understands how hard other affictions are on others- but we cannot Love God and knowingly sin against Him. We must take up our cross & follow Jesus- Suffering for what is right shows our life has been changed.
God designed marriage. Not humans. So it cannot be changed to fit society. Call it something else, but it is not holy matrimony. A marriage is a union of one man & one woman brought together by God.
I am gay, always have been. My twin brother was gay as well. I say was because he was Murdered!! He was a nurse and helped to get people better. Someone killed him possibly because of the hate thrown at gays, maybe he figured my brother's life didn't matter. Some woman came up to me and said his murder was a sighn from God and that my brother is in Hell and I must change or I will go there too!!!! God knew us in our mother's woumb did he not?!! Being Gay is Not a Choice. I run, not walk from people like the woman who said my brother is in Hell, she called herself born again, sanctified whatever it is she boasts to be. I have a personal relationship with God, my best friend and Always has been!! I have No time for preachers, religion or church. God is here with me and loves me, loved my brother and I have Peace!! 🙏
Actually a 2019 genetic study proved that homosexuality cannot be predicted by a single gene in the entire genome and thus is not genetic. Meaning nobody is born with any kind of sexual orientation. If you end up being gay, its something that developed early on in childhood due to your environment and circumstances and level of curiosity. It is an influenced choice.
@@mpdebate6239 BEING👏GAY👏 IS👏 NOT👏 A👏CHOICE.
@@mpdebate6239 and? Being str8 is a choice???
@@camerong5513 Heterosexuality is predictable by genetics but homosexuality is not. Meaning only one is a choice and only one is in a person's nature
@@mpdebate6239 and...? If that's the case, so what if they choose it?
I don't think it would be fair to me as a woman to have a man who has homosexual desires marry me and deny those desires because he will always have them and I want to be with a man who sexually desires me, not one who is trying to please God by 'doing the right thing' and being with me.
FeelTheLack god doesn't have the power to change his desires?
BVale he has the power and he won't use the power unless you want him too......you have to want it...
BVale just because someone does a video on TH-cam doesn't mean they can't lie.......i know plenty who did change and now are married with kids so it's possible because god is possible.....god knows peoples heart....and if you really want to be righteous or not.........he sees a soul that wants to be clean and free from sin...and he won't take it those demons away...?...i doubt that....and remember anybody who says jesus can't save that's the spirit of the antichrist
BVale a therapy session isn't gonna change that.....that was doomed from the start......only jesus can change a person.....abd that comes from a personal relationship with him....and the holy spirit
@@timothymccray6034 you think that the people going to Exodus International didn't ask Jesus to change their hearts? You are so quick to dismiss it as a 'therapy session' When People that went there desperately desired Jesus to change their hearts so much that they begged for help and believed it would happen and here you are discounting that as though its nothing.
Jesus said
“The time is coming when they shall say
how blessed are the barren.”
Captain Underpants said: LA LA LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
@Johhny Johnstone ref. Please ?
@Johhny Johnstone sorry, your reference doesn’t mention “how blessed are the barren”
@Johhny Johnstone it doesn’t help me because it doesn’t mention what Jesus said
Never in your reference does it say
The barren were blessed ?
@Johhny Johnstone this ain’t my first rodeo
This is very hateful content.
this comments section is scary
how tf does it hurt u if some1 is gay wtf
Did you not watch the video? I say this as a gay guy myself
@@triplemoyagames4195 the video is completely unnecessary
Your point?
@@hhhsss7432 You didn't come to listen. You came to disagree as your mind was already made up. Are you a christian?
@@triplemoyagames4195 no
There points are completely invalid bcz that is NOT even a question homosexuality does NOT harm any1
@@hhhsss7432 From your atheistic pov. Yes it does not commit harm. If you are of faith, then yes it does commit harm. It is sin against yourself and God and you're simply damaging your relationship with him. Now that's not the issue, the issue is that you're assuming that because we don't support homosexuality, we are against homosexuals and hate them, which is not true. Frankly it is the opposite. Plus homosexuality is a choice via lifestyle
"Same sex marriage is impossible." Then... how exactly have gay couples been able to get married and have it legally recognized?
It wasn't meant in that context.. They were referring to marriage as defined by God.
Simple stupid people exist
@@lekem9617 But, if you don't follow their religion or even believe in God, then it's immediately irrelevant. Why try to enforce your own religious principles upon others? Marriage is far from just a Judea Christian act, only meant for them.
@@GABA-Gool I'll attempt to answer you on that. The first thing to understand is that the Church doesn't try to enforce anything just to have its way (I can't speak for politicians representing Christianity though. Many there want to guarantee their own). The Church pushes for a traditional marriage agenda because it genuinely believes that same sex marriage is harmful to all society and the future of humanity, just like dysfunctional traditional homes, abortions, etc. The Church believes it's extremely harmful from a spiritual perspective for the lives of the people involved in that family, and from a societal perspective as a whole. So coming against certain things is a protective measure, out of love, not a tyranical move like we're made believe. People tend to assume that love is when people just let us do whatever we want, whatever makes us happy. Under that logic, a mother that loves a son wouldn't discipline him. A person who does drugs would be left alone self-destroying while the family watches. The second thing is by enforcing the homosexual right of marriage, the lgbt community is also pushing for laws to force churches to lose their religious freedom, to break their loyalty to their God in order to cater to their wants. It's very selfish if you think about it. I'm gonna force you to lose your religious freedom because I want you to marry me and my partner, even if it makes you break your moral principles, even though I can just move in together with that partner. If they want to get married and the state allows so, then let them be married by who is OK marrying them and not forcing an entire world to accept you and normalize who you believe you are when being born gay is not even proved Scientifically and it's extremely obvious that homosexuality has increased over the years, and not just not talked about like some claim to defend the matter. I can give you respect without having to accept your lifestyle if I don't believe you're meant to have it, the same way they don't have to accept the lifestyle I choose to have and the identity I choose to incorporate as a person. A drug addict's mother loves her son without accepting his lifestyle as a drug addict or criminal, for example. It doesn't make it any less love, but forcing me to accept you the way you are when I already give you respect as a human being is insecurity and manipulation. Trying to force someone to love you.
@@GABA-Gool they are not trying to enforce anything on you.. Just as you have your right to disagree, hold on and express your beliefs , they are also doing the same. With emphasis that the government should not force them to accept same sex marriage or join them either.
Deliverance ,Jesus christ is a deliverer 🙏
Amen
As long as there’s been human history, people have raised children within groups and practiced polygamy. Claiming humans have always been monogamous between one man and one woman is completely false. Colonialism & Patriarchy wants to believe that’s true, but there is plenty of evidence to the contrary.
I just remembered how many times that was practiced in multiple cultures, it's still somewhat practiced too by some people
This whole dialogue is conflated with perpetuating and reinforcing misinformation. Sexual orientation is an instinct, it’s not a behavior or a choice. It is not an issue of morality.
*Hi, I’m gay, goodbye.*
Jesus loves you, I hope that you find your way to him in your life. If you need any help, please just reply
@@brynnhatcher8279 I like men but Jesus is pretty fine too ngl
So sad ... SEE YA!
I rather be gay and happily married, than married to a women and unhappy for the rest of my life, I would be a worse sinner by lying to myself and everyone else around me.
@Flunky he is not royal he is just stating by nature he won't involve himself in blasphemy, Christianity went against nature, gay people are of nature, and the fact that Christianity went against it and tried to eradicate it, they are now seeing the repercussions of their sins, Christianity is a primitive religion that goes against nature. there is a reason why gays popped up during late-stage capitalism, we are becoming more evolved and more free
I find this a bit silly not gonna lie, people are so inversed in arguing if homosexuality is correct, like why? Its our life, let us live. So far I've seen people arguing why they think its a sin or wrong, completely fine to hold opinions, what I dislike is that you feel your 'opinions' have the right to shape the rights of the humans who have done nothing wrong.
People in love is a sin based on the gender ? why? Reproduction doesn't necessarily have to be done through the traditional manner, so many people now do surrogacy, IVF, IFJ, adoption and many many more, (and if your argument with my statement is with the alternative methodology, I beg of you please go touch grass then typing here).
And people here telling stuff like its a 'test', test of what? 'Temptation', if sexual desire didn't exist then reproduction and children wouldn't be born, so what if some people feel their sexual desire with the same sex? It does you no harm, the community consists of people who are mutually and consensually in a relationship, what gives you the right to barge your nose it someone else's love life? And if you make a stupid comparison with me like 'anger' or 'pedo' , then I implore you to understand; gays are also consisting of fully grown adults that you deny the right to be with, and if your comparison of 'love'; an aspect of life that does no harm to you or the parties involved, to something that does, you are a baseless idiot yelling on top of your lungs. Am I saying a grown man cannot groom a young boy? no. But is it any different than a grown man grooming a young girl, also no. Do not use rotten examples as 'Jeffrey Dahmer' to summarize a community, because you straight people got 'Ted Bundy' as your representation
If a man and a woman can raise a degenerate, why are 2 completely sane and healthy moms not allowed to raise a child?
Its time you logically argue with us, then throwing verses from few hundreds year old book. If not, its fine, as long as you don't blabber on how to live our lives, cause so far, I've seen nothing but 'opinions' surface as your 'argument'. Do you believe in god so much that you'd reduce a human from loving?
These people really don’t understand what true mutual love is... and they wallow in their ignorance. I’m a man. I love another man. It’s not the same thing as pedophilia, we both are in our right minds and can properly consent as fully develop males. We know right and wrong. We can conceive of what is and isn’t just. And we love each other, as one soul does it’s compliment. My love is no less from God than that of a heterosexual couple’s. It is pure, it is good, and it is by God’s good Grace alone that I love another man. If God isn’t about that important factor of love being good, then that is not a God I want or believe in. I believe in the God that is Love.
And now over 4 years later Voddie's words have proven to be prophetic
Brazilian Goddess was that supposed to and 2 weeks later your words have proven to be stupid
@Brazilian Goddess lol ridiculous. You might as well say "you worship a literal lamb, because Jesus is called a lamb many times" twisting words and scripture doesn't do you any favours
@Brazilian Goddess that's King David talking about after an invasion, and he is angry. That is not a command from God. He is speaking out of what happened to the Israelites and that they would feel the same pain.
Honestly, you might as well say "the bible says Jesus is a lamb, therefore Christians worship animals". I doubt you think Christians really believe God tells them to do that.
I can't change your hatred of the way the bible puts things, such as the flood for instance. But I pray you do seek after the truth
@Brazilian Goddess exactly. Npw you understand, to just say 'impossible' to everything. the Bible also says God made the world in 7 days, that's impossible!! Says God loves you, impossible!
@Hineni John3:16 Let her/him be - he/she is trying to create a debate where there is none - nobody is as blind as those who do not want to see. He/She is just a sign of society so dont judge ignorance.