Another Austinite who thinks so too. Very interesting take, and well worth the investment if it pans out. Just don't forget about the ones who "brung" you along the way. We're your supporters, not your whiners
I'm wondering if the subscribers you pick up from this are actually worth having. I'm thinking specifically about how videos posted on your Instagram feed will (if they are popular) pull in a lot of followers, but they are generally followers that aren't actually engaged with the topic. They are just looking for something briefly interesting before moving on, and since following someone doesn't cost anything, they do that. Also I'd be a bit concerned that regular viewers would be put off by frequent short videos without much substance. I guess it comes down to following trends as they pop up and hoping for the best, or staying the course while being open to change when needed. BTW, I watch this channel and miss the content :)
Shorts are annoying to me because I watch on tv. I subscribe to channels of people I like. I watch every video John makes, even if it's not a project I will ever do. I hope TH-cam doesn't discourage old channels to stop producing content.
John, some regular viewers are definitely put off by frequent content. I lost a lot of older viewers when I was putting out daily content last year, but picked up a ton of new viewers. And as my lockdown series ran its course, the number of regular viewers steadily dropped. Subscribers move on. I think as TH-camrs we need to stop placing such an emphasis on subscribers. I really do think it's becoming an outdated model for finding and watching videos. I would guess that most people use the subscribe button today as a form of "like" without intending to really watch much more. It's mostly an ego number. View counts and watch time are far more relevant. This used to be a different landscape focused on subscribers, but today I don't think it's possible to grow a channel (especially ones as old as ours) if we don't constantly seek out new viewers and experiment with the platform. Plus, for me, making Shorts is actually really fun and exciting. A new challenge to cram info into 150 words!
@@SteveRamsey I think the real and obvious direction this is being forced to go is that your overlord will let you know what is good to watch as opposed to what you choose to watch. Do you check all the desireable boxes for their mission/nudge? Then ok we will suggest you to watch. If you are cantankerous old man like John... dustbin. No judgement John. Following you for years. Watch everything.
@@SteveRamsey without the subscribers, your videos aren't getting that initial surge of views, so subs are definitely still important. The absolute number? Not really. What I've seen to be more important is the percentage of your subs that watch the video when it's first released tells YT how much to suggest it. That's why newer channels that are doing well and have a more engaged subscriber base generally do better than older ones with a less engaged sub base, even when the video content in comparable.
@@Reprint001 You nailed it. I'm in the same "boat" and I once tried to operate with several accounts for different categories (I also love Jeepin and sailing), but that didn't work ofc. Instead I have many times been asking myself why YT cannot categorize channels. Or better, have the viewer make his/her own categories with assigned channels accordingly (like a personal catalogue), and let the viewer decide what to watch that day.
Excellent insight, Steve. I really appreciate videos like this that pull back the curtain and help us understand the thought process of the creator and the logistics of TH-cam.
Thanks for sharing your analytics! We’ve had the hunch that shorts would be great for discoverability. Thanks for putting some easily digestible data here. 10+ years online and you’re still a pioneer for the rest of us - thank you 🙏🏼
I don't have an issue with #shorts if that's what creators want to make and it's what the consumers want to view. My issue stems from the fact I consume TH-cam on my TV. I don't want to watch short vertical videos, so I'd really appreciate it if TH-cam didn't show me these videos on those devices. In fact, I'd prefer it if I could filter out the #shorts videos from my subscription feeds. Yes, I'm old school (and old), I subscribe to the channels I like and I watch them on TV.
You make such sense, I really think you are on to something and it explains why the way I search for things doesn't work the same anymore. I like your shorts because it reminds me of keypoint techniques that I might have to dig for in longer videos I've watched. Thanks for the behind the scenes. We enjoy understanding how it works for youtubers like you whom we care about :D
I like your short videos, Steve. As long as shorts don’t get in the way of the in depth content a lot of us are here for, then they’re fun little bonuses.
Ironically I'm currently not subscribed to your main channel so I got this video because I watch my subscription feed almost exclusively. (When it runs out I go elsewhere)
The problem with "shorts".... For me at least.... I actually stream TH-cam videos to my TV, ( I no longer have cable or dish. Steaming only.) ... TH-cam tells me I have to disconnect my TV in order to watch the shorts. If I could insert them into my playlist that I'm watching on my tv, I would. I see a lot of shorts the seem like they would be entertaining but I don't want to disconnect and reconnect repeatedly. So, for now, I am not a shorts viewer. ... of course, I may not be part of the "target audience".... I was creating websites on the internet before TH-cam was a thing. Just saying. 😁
“How do I ___?” It wasn’t through a short, but I’m pretty sure that’s exactly how I first stumbled across your main page. It’s a smart move to try to read and predict the upcoming market and I have no doubt that it’ll work out well for you.
Thank you for the insight. I like the regular content video, and look forward to post by the channels I watch on a regular basis. Yours being one of my favorite woodworking channels. Of which i only have a few.
Should have called them #pants. I generally don’t watch them. Sorry that they aren’t monitized. Sounds like they are another “free exposure instead of pay” mechanism.
Hi, Steve. That's very complicated, man. Creator's lives are not easy. I remember when you posted on Keek. If memory serves me, it was a 30 seconds videos too. Please, keep posting shorts and regular videos. Thank you for that explanation. Have a great weekend.
I like shorts, the problem is when the algorithm decides to show straight up Tiktok videos. I watch youtube cause I don't like tiktok videos. And youtube suddenly decided that 10 minutes is not the algorithm sweet spot anymore, they changed it to 8.
Shoulda went all in and backed up from the camera with some cut off shorts on and walked out of the frame. I appreciate this video response as I did comment on your recent survey, expressing my hope that your shorts run as previews, project throwbacks, or quick guide how-to's. They will surely gather interest or be that answer to someone's search question. Keep up with the times, the quality production - it is appreciated!
The algorithm works horrible for me. That's why I'm subscribed to a scary number of channels... Because or I'm watching their new videos or I don't have anything to watch. 😕 Anyway, I still think searchability(?) is important. Because if I want to re watch some project, maybe to repeat it... I need to be able to find it. About shorts themselves I don't have anything against them. Because many people are making really informative shorts. Including yourself, Steve. 😊 Anyway, stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Hey, Steve, you only know best what's working out for you, financially or otherwise. But I do watch most if not all of your videos for the educational content, even if I live in an apartment, with no room for a shop, and I don't have access to most wood types (only fir or beech varieties are widely available where I live). I'm struggling to complete my projects with the least amount of tools and space and your tips save me a lot of trouble. So even if shorts will be the main part of your channel for a while, please continue making them informative and funny!
Hi Steve. I don't do TikTok, Instagram, or any of the newer stuff. I have so many subscriptions I don't bother counting anymore, but they're are diverse and I only have notifications on a couple of them. However, my go-to first thing was Lindsay's and yours. I don't mind the shorts, but I prefer the longer ones. Thanks for explaining the inner workings of TH-cam.
Appreciate the explanation of why you use shorts and glad to see you are doing what you can to help your channel. Personally they are not my thing because I prefer longer form content and loved the lock down series
Thanks for this video Steve! The shorts from you are the only ones I ever watch, they're very informative! For me I mostly only watch a long form video if the project is what I am interested in doing. I do like your videos though, always so clear and useful 👍
Almost all of my TH-cam viewing is from my subscription list. TH-cam is pretty good at recommending additional videos that would be of interest to me, but I still prefer subscribing to channels that I want to watch.
I’ve pretty much bailed on my channel. You’re definitely right about subscriptions being meaningless. My subscriber count continues to climb, but nothing else on my channel reflects those numbers. Maybe I’ll try shorts in the future, but right now I’ve actually had much better success posting Star Wars content on IG.
Just took a quick look at your channel. Three years in any still hardly any views per video- There could be many causes. But I would say the biggest one is that the audio is terrible. People HATE bad audio and they simply won't watch. Not having a good mic is killing your channel, in my opinion. Just a free tip :)
I generally watch the longer format videos instead of regular TV - there's very little on that interests me. Anything vaguely technical is, more often than not, dumbed down and spoon fed with lots of padding and fluff. I do still watch the sort vids though, usually while I'm sat on the bog 😁
All joking aside(well, most joking aside), I have a subscription to a channel that changed their posting from 5 days a week to 3 times a week. I used to bank their videos so I could watch one every day. Now that I can't do that anymore I don't really watch their videos on any regular basis at all. They're a "homesteading" channel. Now with Frank Howarth I almost always watch them the day or so when it pops up. I can't tell you the difference other than the break in their posting routine has changed my interest in the channel.
I'm not a fan of the 'vertical' format videos so find shorts in general annoying but I do watch some of them. I look on them as an advert for a particular channel so would in general agree with your ideas on them. John Heisz (and others) make some very valid comments about subscriptions. I'm subscribed to a lot of channels on a variety of subjects but I don't have notifications turned on for most of them - only those whose content is regularly either informative or entertaining (both yourself and John have them turned on). One thing I wish was available in TH-cam is notifications for new posts in the Community section of a channel. Quite often there are announcements etc made there that I end up missing.
But a damn good relict. I'm sure a lot of "old-fashioned-sub-and-not-a-fancy-pancy-Ramsey-#shorty-YTviewers" are missing more uber-enginered content from you - I do.
Subscriptions are useless now because I have to go looking for most of them. TH-cam doesn't send out notifications for most of them. That sucks! Because I miss a lot of content. I actually watch fewer videos now partly because of the notifications and partly if I wanted to watch commercials I turn on the TV. Especially commercials about TH-cam, you can't even skip those. I'm about ready to give up on TH-cam and only use it when I need it. I'm going to Rumble for the news because TH-cam censors any right wing thought, it's a shame. Sorry for the rant!
The most important truth you utter here is that TH-cam is absolutely saturated with woodworking channels. The problem is, for me at least, most are total crap. Kind of like the cooking videos that imply in a video with well cut edits that you can make a multi-tier wedding cake using a microwave and coffee mug and mix from a box. I have no objection to shorts. I find them amusing, interesting, and short. (See what I did there?) That said my time is spent mostly going through my subscription list so I get the channels I have curated for myself. That might be because I'm a GenX'r but I don't feel it's unique to my generation of TH-cam fans. Thanks for the content, Steve. It's appreciated.
Sometimes the ripoffs are better. For instance, I think Instagram stories are a lot better than Snapchat, but TH-cam stories aren't. My audience is already on TH-cam. Getting people to cross platforms is very difficult and probably not worth the effort to bother with TikTok.
@@SteveRamsey I feel I must mention, there is a guy here that just recently came from TikTok, his name is Milard Mirg. I really struggle to understand why I can't stop watching and how is all this even possible. He got 1 mil. subscribers in like first month and he is skyrocketing on both platforms. The "why" part is what keeps me awake at nights. In 30 seconds he makes a sandwich and tells a story from (his) everyday life. With an obnoxious voice. That's it. But atomic and self sustained. Rinse and repeat.
Considering the increase in ads, especially mandatory ads, I find myself making a value judgement before I click. Do I think this content will be worth the commercials I must suffer? Typically I will not click on the short. It's just not worth a 15 second commercial to watch a 55 second video. It doesn't pencil.
I think shorts are great for simple woodworking tips and nuggets of information, e.g. making a box joint jig with 10 bits of 1/2 inch stock glued together at 2 different lengths and using a flush trim bit. That can be done in 60 seconds. Explaining a fancier one made for the table saw with dadoes or for the router table takes a bit longer. Making push sticks, explaining feather boards, simple jigs etc all usefull things that don't need a 15 minute video.
I don't mind shorts, I don't mind them being on TH-cam. I generally don't watch them though. I do mind TH-cam changing the new double ads every 2-3 minutes in longer videos. It breaks up a carefully crafted video into randomly divided short chunks of content.
Personally, I find “shorts” to be somewhat annoying, but I don’t fault anyone for using or enjoying them. They do have a purpose. Then again, many content creators change their style and content to keep up with the times. For dinosaurs like myself , who prefer the older style of longer full project videos with more detail, shorts and other shorter videos kind of feel like highlight reels. The beauty of platforms such as TH-cam, is that there’s something for everyone, including dinosaurs like me.
Shorts are okay in that I can watch them in an odd minute here and there. The longer form videos are more my thing generally but it sometimes takes several days to get round to watching them because so many of the creators I follow release videos on a Friday afternoon (my time). In the space of an hour there is often suddenly 6 or more hours of 'content' to catch up on, so it gets watched in order, though I sometimes skip some where I suspect they are talking head videos rather than 'doing' videos.
How nice! I stopped watching the main channel, so It was a surprise to see this, though a welcome one. I'll stay subscribed for this type of content :) I do follow my subscriptions, haha, you made me feel old ;)
My only issue with shots is that I don't see that they are shots when I click on them. So, when a channel posts many of them, I subconsciously click less on their videos.
as a long time desktop youtube viewer, i used to be mildly annoyed by them popping up on my feed, but i feel like people got used to them really quick. Legal eagle for example posts short updates for some prominent legal cases and its getting SO many views. And if the content is properly adapted, its kind of nice to have videos that are quick to the point, instead of dragged to 10 minutes. imo: if you dont like them, they arent hard to just skip, but they seem to be really good for youtubers.
I’m a huge fan of your build videos and your courses. I do understand why you are doing what you are doing with the shorts, but I have to say I’m not a huge fan of shorts. Not to get all philosophic, but I do see major increases in short attention spans in all of my children and grandchildren. They all are just scrolling seemingly mindlessly through Tic Toc or Instagram, or TH-cam shorts. That’s what they do when the get together with friends or come to my house for a cookout. Scrolling and scrolling, and now scrolling past videos that are longer than 20 seconds cause they can’t wait they long. Steve you are a good guy and have taken the time to develop great videos and throw in free plans that are very useful. My patio and house are full of stuff made from your videos. But I have to say we are doing our younger generation a diservice by providing them an environment that gives them constant small shots of dopamine with these kinds of short snippets; they live for it and constantly search for another shot. I’m work as a data scientist and I can tell you that the data we are gathering about milenials and younger children in terms of brain function, and the ability to process information critically and develop life skills that were naturally acquired just 10 years ago is evaporating. The data is irrefutable. The data shows this to be and American phenomenon, as younger folks globally are actually increasing functional intelligence while Americans youth is dropping at an alarming rate while they chase the shot of dopamine. Steve this all of course isn’t your fault because of your shorts; but I do know from your podcast that you do like to discuss social media. When you look at some of the data I’m referring to, it would seem this might be a topic for you.
For the most part I agree. Most people would probably feel a lot better if they spent less time on social media. There are plenty of movements sprouting up (by young people) encouraging other young people to reduce screen time and I think the pendulum will swing back. Woodworking is one of those ways to do so. But the length or format isn't really the main issue. I'm not sure if a 61 second "long" video is somehow "better" than a 60 second Short. Or if watching a 2 hour movie on Netflix is any different than watching shorts for 2 hours. Or even reading a book, which is a pretty anti-social activity but gets a pass from older people.
You should watch "the spiffing brit" video on the subject. He'll explain how to take much more effective advantage of the current 'preference' TH-cam has for shorts. Why more then you might think. I'll also point out that telling people to just not watch them makes no scenes. It's like telling you not to read the bad comments, just the good ones.
I'm not a fan of the shorts. I typically don't watch since most creators I follow upload them as teasers of sorts. When I sit down to watch TH-cam videos in the evenings, I still just go through my subscription feed. I'm pretty invested in the channels I follow. I'm probably not typical though (outside the 18-40 demographic) and I dont begrudge anyone for making them.
0:30 - Ohh, I didn't even realize that his is not the main channel :D 3:12 - I remember the time when YT front page changed from showing my subs to showing that YT thinks I would like. And that day I made a bookmark with the YT/feed/subscriptions URL and never looked back. I might be old fashioned but I do sub to channels and I watch every video from them. If I find myself watching less and less of their content I just unsub and maybe check back once in 2 months if I'm interested at all. I watch shorts when you upload them and I spend my time mostly on desktop. There are a couple of channels where I'm subbed but I don't see their shorts on desktop. Before going to bed I like to check stuff on my phone and sometimes I check YT and find shorts there from channels I'm subbed but don't see their short videos on desktop version. I don't know why your videos show up on desktop... I think what you channel needs more is more Jon&Lou!
I subscribe to help channels with the metric, but because I'm an old-school internet kind of guy, all of my subscriptions are served up and managed via feedly (RIP Google Reader :( ), which lets me time shift videos by hours/days (or some times even weeks). Yours might be the only channel I've seen "shorts" on, but I also mostly only watch on desktop or my TV so maybe the algorithm is hiding them from me.
I haven’t added any new subscriptions in 8 months or so. I do go to my subscription list and watch new videos from that. But , in the last few seconds, I swipe up and see what other videos YT is recommending. Re: Shorts: I don’t really watch them but I am a subscriber so there’s that. I would love to start a TH-cam channel on rookie woodworking but don’t have the smarts to do it. Lol
Really interesting stuff. I wonder if this new/impending TH-cam model will force you to rethink your brand/mission. Will you continue to be a “come to my channel to learn ww through fairly thorough, introductory curricular lessons” model,or more of a “resource for answering specific detailed questions” channel?
I hadn't expected these shorts to have such an impact. I don't like them because they are always very blurry half through the duration and because I want to watch a whole project and fear you don't post as many of them anymore (what seems to be true at the moment).
It isn't that I don't like your shorts... I watch all of your videos - but you haven't been producing many non-short videos lately and THAT is why I commented the other day. I thought you'd stopped making videos longer than a minute and maybe you have. I guess time will tell. We still love you from outside Ottawa, Ontario 🇨🇦
Respectfully, as long as phones can easily be turned to view content in landscape wide screen format there’s no excuse to have videos in portrait format. Turn you phones people!
Your's is the only channel I'm subscribed to.that does "#shorts" I have 3 TH-cam channels with 3 distinctly different interests. This one for woodworking I am subbed to 95 different channels. My other 2 channels have 241.
Your shorts are good. Funny enough you are the only one I consistently see shorts for. I do want to repeat. Do not overly music on your videos. I just makes it too hard to hear you speaking. You are cramming a lot of good info in these and no need to make it harder to catch everything.
The only thing that annoys me about this platform is that a bunch of users still encourage me to like and subscribe to their channel after every video. I subscribe to the content that I want to see on a daily basis and I use likes to keep track of my favorite videos.
@@SteveRamsey Thanks! I was curious about the table and fence attached to it. Is it aftermarket or was it included? Seems like a premium feature for such an affordable tool.
Fantastic! Don't know how I missed it. Well done on this one! I love projects like these that are relatively easy and result in a product that is superior to those available on the market. I've watched your videos for ages. Keep up the great work and don't forget to take some time to really be proud of what you've built with this channel (and yourself) and how far you've come.
I appreciate your posting this. I do understand better why you would want to experiment with this format. I'm still not sure you're hearing much of our feedback when you say "That's fine, but don't bother telling me" I made one comment and that was your reply as well. What I don't think you heard is that we really like you and your content, and we're concerned about the impact of "Don't watch them" on your base algorithm performance. Because it's not just "don't watch them." The fastest growing TH-cam viewing use case is on television via OTT box (Your comments in this video seem to only see a binary of mobile and desktop). Mobile is shrinking a bit. On TV, we're faced with two issues: 1. the vertical format is especially problematic and 2. We're shown about 20 videos in our recommended list. If we don't watch them, they tend to stick around blocking other content unless we mark them as "Not Interested." I hate clicking Not Interested on your videos because I'm afraid that hurts you, but I don't have much other choice. Additionally, there is a bit of FOMO about missing out on that content. Another TH-camr my husband follows is trying something interesting and releasing a traditionally formatted recap of that week's shorts which has been nice. In the end, even if this is a passing bump because TH-cam is extra promoting shorts videos, I hear that it's helpful to get those subs even if it only lasts until the shorts marketplace is more crowded. I'd just also appreciate a bit more acknowledgment of how it's impacting your core viewership rather than lumping us together as whiners and luddites. Both your complaints and ours are more complex than that.
Here's where I'm getting device info: www.emarketer.com/content/youtube-viewing-shifting-ctv-screens It shows last year that TV share rose from 27.0 to 34.4% while mobile dropped from 49.0 to 40.9%. As for the binary you mention between mobile vs desktop, desktop is only about 10-11% of viewership. It's Roku/FireTV/Cord-cutters vs mobile, and shorts are rough on the cord-cutting crowd.
Very good video Steve. Thanks for pulling the curtain back. At the end of the day, you must leverage opportunities to bring new blood to your channel if it is to survive. As you well know, past success does not guarantee future success. Us "ole timers" will just have to see the shorts as what they are. Begrudging them doesn't help us, so we should view them as yet another enabler to your channel health which in turn will benefit us by you continuing to produce excellent content. In the end, I am not a fan of shorts, but I do watch them....all of them(yours). If for anything, in support of you and your channel. A worthy investment for just 60 seconds of my time. P.S. LOVE the cutting board video. Lastly, LOVE your courses. Hope there will be more of them in the future.
I don’t watch shorts! As you talked about somewhat, I think shorts are for manipulating people herding them like sheep. They are a tool. Just my two cents.
It's weird how some creators I only want shorts. I find Real Men Real Style videos to be too long, too "talky" because I don't care about style but his how-to shorts I love! I just want to know how to tie my shoes, not the why. But for you, I want the why. I guess thats where the line might be. Do you what an answer or do you want a story and it depends on the topic/creator. Cause I'll watch 20 videos of Mattias just fucking about.
Personally I enjoy shorts. In the summer pants can be stifling and don't breath so well. Shorts offer comfort and mobility. Oh wait... You're talking about short videos?
Also sounds for as a mee too copy from tiktok. I personally dont need shorts because i'm able to concentrate more than 60 seconds. I like well prepared videos that go into the details only a pro woodworker can do. How would you put that information into shorts? By making 20 shorts? Not my cup of tea. But hey, if you like it, make it. I'll keep on watching your "traditional" videos then.
I think your "searchability" comment is very prescient. Great insights.
Have to agree... had not considered that.
It's a great insight, but so is looking through the gates of hell.
I sub to you too 👍
Two of my favorite channels like each other!!
Another Austinite who thinks so too. Very interesting take, and well worth the investment if it pans out. Just don't forget about the ones who "brung" you along the way. We're your supporters, not your whiners
I'm wondering if the subscribers you pick up from this are actually worth having. I'm thinking specifically about how videos posted on your Instagram feed will (if they are popular) pull in a lot of followers, but they are generally followers that aren't actually engaged with the topic. They are just looking for something briefly interesting before moving on, and since following someone doesn't cost anything, they do that.
Also I'd be a bit concerned that regular viewers would be put off by frequent short videos without much substance.
I guess it comes down to following trends as they pop up and hoping for the best, or staying the course while being open to change when needed.
BTW, I watch this channel and miss the content :)
Shorts are annoying to me because I watch on tv. I subscribe to channels of people I like. I watch every video John makes, even if it's not a project I will ever do. I hope TH-cam doesn't discourage old channels to stop producing content.
John, some regular viewers are definitely put off by frequent content. I lost a lot of older viewers when I was putting out daily content last year, but picked up a ton of new viewers. And as my lockdown series ran its course, the number of regular viewers steadily dropped. Subscribers move on. I think as TH-camrs we need to stop placing such an emphasis on subscribers. I really do think it's becoming an outdated model for finding and watching videos. I would guess that most people use the subscribe button today as a form of "like" without intending to really watch much more. It's mostly an ego number. View counts and watch time are far more relevant. This used to be a different landscape focused on subscribers, but today I don't think it's possible to grow a channel (especially ones as old as ours) if we don't constantly seek out new viewers and experiment with the platform. Plus, for me, making Shorts is actually really fun and exciting. A new challenge to cram info into 150 words!
@@SteveRamsey
I think the real and obvious direction this is being forced to go is that your overlord will let you know what is good to watch as opposed to what you choose to watch. Do you check all the desireable boxes for their mission/nudge? Then ok we will suggest you to watch. If you are cantankerous old man like John... dustbin. No judgement John. Following you for years. Watch everything.
@@SteveRamsey without the subscribers, your videos aren't getting that initial surge of views, so subs are definitely still important.
The absolute number? Not really.
What I've seen to be more important is the percentage of your subs that watch the video when it's first released tells YT how much to suggest it. That's why newer channels that are doing well and have a more engaged subscriber base generally do better than older ones with a less engaged sub base, even when the video content in comparable.
@@Reprint001 You nailed it. I'm in the same "boat" and I once tried to operate with several accounts for different categories (I also love Jeepin and sailing), but that didn't work ofc.
Instead I have many times been asking myself why YT cannot categorize channels. Or better, have the viewer make his/her own categories with assigned channels accordingly (like a personal catalogue), and let the viewer decide what to watch that day.
The shorts you've made stand out to me as the best ive seen. Very informative, very digestible, not just diverting.
Excellent insight, Steve. I really appreciate videos like this that pull back the curtain and help us understand the thought process of the creator and the logistics of TH-cam.
Thanks for sharing your analytics!
We’ve had the hunch that shorts would be great for discoverability. Thanks for putting some easily digestible data here.
10+ years online and you’re still a pioneer for the rest of us - thank you 🙏🏼
Subscribed since 2014, watched all your videos. You're my favorite woodworker, by far!
Keep'em coming, shorts or not! Bless ya!
I don't have an issue with #shorts if that's what creators want to make and it's what the consumers want to view. My issue stems from the fact I consume TH-cam on my TV. I don't want to watch short vertical videos, so I'd really appreciate it if TH-cam didn't show me these videos on those devices. In fact, I'd prefer it if I could filter out the #shorts videos from my subscription feeds.
Yes, I'm old school (and old), I subscribe to the channels I like and I watch them on TV.
I like everything you post, longs, shorts and mediums!
You make such sense, I really think you are on to something and it explains why the way I search for things doesn't work the same anymore. I like your shorts because it reminds me of keypoint techniques that I might have to dig for in longer videos I've watched. Thanks for the behind the scenes. We enjoy understanding how it works for youtubers like you whom we care about :D
I like your short videos, Steve. As long as shorts don’t get in the way of the in depth content a lot of us are here for, then they’re fun little bonuses.
0:23 Shots fired at John Heisz haha
“River” style tables. SO many videos!
Ironically I'm currently not subscribed to your main channel so I got this video because I watch my subscription feed almost exclusively. (When it runs out I go elsewhere)
You're not alone. ;-)
The problem with "shorts".... For me at least.... I actually stream TH-cam videos to my TV, ( I no longer have cable or dish. Steaming only.) ... TH-cam tells me I have to disconnect my TV in order to watch the shorts. If I could insert them into my playlist that I'm watching on my tv, I would. I see a lot of shorts the seem like they would be entertaining but I don't want to disconnect and reconnect repeatedly. So, for now, I am not a shorts viewer.
... of course, I may not be part of the "target audience".... I was creating websites on the internet before TH-cam was a thing. Just saying. 😁
I really like your basic stuff content. My workshop is just at the beginning and continuously evolving and some tips and hints are really useful. :)
“How do I ___?”
It wasn’t through a short, but I’m pretty sure that’s exactly how I first stumbled across your main page. It’s a smart move to try to read and predict the upcoming market and I have no doubt that it’ll work out well for you.
Well summarized! Thanks for sharing the impact info, also.
Thank you for the insight. I like the regular content video, and look forward to post by the channels I watch on a regular basis. Yours being one of my favorite woodworking channels. Of which i only have a few.
Should have called them #pants. I generally don’t watch them. Sorry that they aren’t monitized. Sounds like they are another “free exposure instead of pay” mechanism.
Hi, Steve. That's very complicated, man. Creator's lives are not easy. I remember when you posted on Keek. If memory serves me, it was a 30 seconds videos too. Please, keep posting shorts and regular videos. Thank you for that explanation. Have a great weekend.
I like shorts, the problem is when the algorithm decides to show straight up Tiktok videos. I watch youtube cause I don't like tiktok videos. And youtube suddenly decided that 10 minutes is not the algorithm sweet spot anymore, they changed it to 8.
Shoulda went all in and backed up from the camera with some cut off shorts on and walked out of the frame.
I appreciate this video response as I did comment on your recent survey, expressing my hope that your shorts run as previews, project throwbacks, or quick guide how-to's. They will surely gather interest or be that answer to someone's search question. Keep up with the times, the quality production - it is appreciated!
The algorithm works horrible for me. That's why I'm subscribed to a scary number of channels... Because or I'm watching their new videos or I don't have anything to watch. 😕
Anyway, I still think searchability(?) is important. Because if I want to re watch some project, maybe to repeat it... I need to be able to find it.
About shorts themselves I don't have anything against them. Because many people are making really informative shorts. Including yourself, Steve. 😊
Anyway, stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
I enjoy the shorts. I do miss the regular posting of project videos.
Hey, Steve, you only know best what's working out for you, financially or otherwise. But I do watch most if not all of your videos for the educational content, even if I live in an apartment, with no room for a shop, and I don't have access to most wood types (only fir or beech varieties are widely available where I live). I'm struggling to complete my projects with the least amount of tools and space and your tips save me a lot of trouble. So even if shorts will be the main part of your channel for a while, please continue making them informative and funny!
It's really fascinating what you can learn about youtube from a woodworking channel! Thanks for the nice summary, very helpful. Cheers!
Thanks for the extra info, Steve! Glad to hear the shorts are an addition to your regular videos.
I was genuinely here to see a debate on shorts as in pants with no legs - in woodworking. How does it look and is it even safe.
The biggest problem I see with shorts, is that you have to sit through adds that are some times longer that the video is, which I think is total BS.
Steve, you are a smart guy. Appreciate your thoughts and creativity.
I never leave the house without clean shorts
Hi Steve. I don't do TikTok, Instagram, or any of the newer stuff. I have so many subscriptions I don't bother counting anymore, but they're are diverse and I only have notifications on a couple of them. However, my go-to first thing was Lindsay's and yours. I don't mind the shorts, but I prefer the longer ones. Thanks for explaining the inner workings of TH-cam.
Concise explanation. I for one just miss your vloggy type shenanigans.
It's still too cold for shorts in the UK. Maybe as the weather warms up next month I'll switch to my shorts.
I watch from my sub feed and I watch both long and short to support the channel. I dont make anything, just find you interesting and entertaining.
Appreciate the explanation of why you use shorts and glad to see you are doing what you can to help your channel. Personally they are not my thing because I prefer longer form content and loved the lock down series
Nice explanation. Thanks!
Thanks for this video Steve! The shorts from you are the only ones I ever watch, they're very informative! For me I mostly only watch a long form video if the project is what I am interested in doing. I do like your videos though, always so clear and useful 👍
Almost all of my TH-cam viewing is from my subscription list. TH-cam is pretty good at recommending additional videos that would be of interest to me, but I still prefer subscribing to channels that I want to watch.
I’ve pretty much bailed on my channel. You’re definitely right about subscriptions being meaningless. My subscriber count continues to climb, but nothing else on my channel reflects those numbers. Maybe I’ll try shorts in the future, but right now I’ve actually had much better success posting Star Wars content on IG.
Just took a quick look at your channel. Three years in any still hardly any views per video- There could be many causes. But I would say the biggest one is that the audio is terrible. People HATE bad audio and they simply won't watch. Not having a good mic is killing your channel, in my opinion. Just a free tip :)
Good rundown.
I generally watch the longer format videos instead of regular TV - there's very little on that interests me. Anything vaguely technical is, more often than not, dumbed down and spoon fed with lots of padding and fluff.
I do still watch the sort vids though, usually while I'm sat on the bog 😁
All joking aside(well, most joking aside), I have a subscription to a channel that changed their posting from 5 days a week to 3 times a week. I used to bank their videos so I could watch one every day. Now that I can't do that anymore I don't really watch their videos on any regular basis at all. They're a "homesteading" channel. Now with Frank Howarth I almost always watch them the day or so when it pops up. I can't tell you the difference other than the break in their posting routine has changed my interest in the channel.
I'm not a fan of the 'vertical' format videos so find shorts in general annoying but I do watch some of them. I look on them as an advert for a particular channel so would in general agree with your ideas on them.
John Heisz (and others) make some very valid comments about subscriptions. I'm subscribed to a lot of channels on a variety of subjects but I don't have notifications turned on for most of them - only those whose content is regularly either informative or entertaining (both yourself and John have them turned on).
One thing I wish was available in TH-cam is notifications for new posts in the Community section of a channel. Quite often there are announcements etc made there that I end up missing.
Hmm this is the first time I hear of "Shorts". I'm such a long gone relict :D
But a damn good relict. I'm sure a lot of "old-fashioned-sub-and-not-a-fancy-pancy-Ramsey-#shorty-YTviewers" are missing more uber-enginered content from you - I do.
Subscriptions are useless now because I have to go looking for most of them. TH-cam doesn't send out notifications for most of them. That sucks! Because I miss a lot of content. I actually watch fewer videos now partly because of the notifications and partly if I wanted to watch commercials I turn on the TV. Especially commercials about TH-cam, you can't even skip those. I'm about ready to give up on TH-cam and only use it when I need it. I'm going to Rumble for the news because TH-cam censors any right wing thought, it's a shame. Sorry for the rant!
The most important truth you utter here is that TH-cam is absolutely saturated with woodworking channels. The problem is, for me at least, most are total crap. Kind of like the cooking videos that imply in a video with well cut edits that you can make a multi-tier wedding cake using a microwave and coffee mug and mix from a box.
I have no objection to shorts. I find them amusing, interesting, and short. (See what I did there?)
That said my time is spent mostly going through my subscription list so I get the channels I have curated for myself. That might be because I'm a GenX'r but I don't feel it's unique to my generation of TH-cam fans.
Thanks for the content, Steve. It's appreciated.
Wow, I really like this video. It is unique in content and relevant insight in where it is likely that google/TH-cam is heading.
I see shorts as an TikTok ripoff, just like there is also a Twitch ripoff. That being said, why not try to post also on TikTok to drive people here?
Sometimes the ripoffs are better. For instance, I think Instagram stories are a lot better than Snapchat, but TH-cam stories aren't. My audience is already on TH-cam. Getting people to cross platforms is very difficult and probably not worth the effort to bother with TikTok.
@@SteveRamsey I feel I must mention, there is a guy here that just recently came from TikTok, his name is Milard Mirg. I really struggle to understand why I can't stop watching and how is all this even possible. He got 1 mil. subscribers in like first month and he is skyrocketing on both platforms.
The "why" part is what keeps me awake at nights.
In 30 seconds he makes a sandwich and tells a story from (his) everyday life. With an obnoxious voice. That's it.
But atomic and self sustained. Rinse and repeat.
Considering the increase in ads, especially mandatory ads, I find myself making a value judgement before I click. Do I think this content will be worth the commercials I must suffer? Typically I will not click on the short. It's just not worth a 15 second commercial to watch a 55 second video. It doesn't pencil.
It’s just now getting warm enough for shorts
Interesting insights Steve. Shorts are here to stay I believe. I believe I will give it a try on my channel.
How about a "full length" video making a short coffee table???
I think shorts are great for simple woodworking tips and nuggets of information, e.g. making a box joint jig with 10 bits of 1/2 inch stock glued together at 2 different lengths and using a flush trim bit. That can be done in 60 seconds. Explaining a fancier one made for the table saw with dadoes or for the router table takes a bit longer. Making push sticks, explaining feather boards, simple jigs etc all usefull things that don't need a 15 minute video.
I don't mind shorts, I don't mind them being on TH-cam. I generally don't watch them though. I do mind TH-cam changing the new double ads every 2-3 minutes in longer videos. It breaks up a carefully crafted video into randomly divided short chunks of content.
People always watch me in short shorts. Ha, ha!
I like shorts. Mostly because it gives me information about the channel and let’s me decide whether or not to check into it further.
I was going to write something similar to your comment but my fingers got tongue tied and I couldn't straighten out my thought process.
I watch all of your regular videos. I might or might not watch the shorts, but I’m not bothered by them.
I'm a subscriber to your main channel and I enjoy the Shorts you post.
Personally, I find “shorts” to be somewhat annoying, but I don’t fault anyone for using or enjoying them. They do have a purpose. Then again, many content creators change their style and content to keep up with the times. For dinosaurs like myself , who prefer the older style of longer full project videos with more detail, shorts and other shorter videos kind of feel like highlight reels. The beauty of platforms such as TH-cam, is that there’s something for everyone, including dinosaurs like me.
This is how long it's been since anything got posted here. Me, "who is this Steve Ramsey and why is he in my subscription feed?"
I gotta say, I don’t like shorts. I get that it is what it is, but just don’t dig it - especially the vertical format
Shorts are okay in that I can watch them in an odd minute here and there. The longer form videos are more my thing generally but it sometimes takes several days to get round to watching them because so many of the creators I follow release videos on a Friday afternoon (my time). In the space of an hour there is often suddenly 6 or more hours of 'content' to catch up on, so it gets watched in order, though I sometimes skip some where I suspect they are talking head videos rather than 'doing' videos.
How nice!
I stopped watching the main channel, so It was a surprise to see this, though a welcome one.
I'll stay subscribed for this type of content :) I do follow my subscriptions, haha, you made me feel old ;)
My only issue with shots is that I don't see that they are shots when I click on them. So, when a channel posts many of them, I subconsciously click less on their videos.
Great insight Steve.
The only thing your channel needs is Shorts mixed with thousands of gallons of epoxy filled coffee tables : D.
as a long time desktop youtube viewer, i used to be mildly annoyed by them popping up on my feed, but i feel like people got used to them really quick. Legal eagle for example posts short updates for some prominent legal cases and its getting SO many views. And if the content is properly adapted, its kind of nice to have videos that are quick to the point, instead of dragged to 10 minutes.
imo: if you dont like them, they arent hard to just skip, but they seem to be really good for youtubers.
I’m a huge fan of your build videos and your courses. I do understand why you are doing what you are doing with the shorts, but I have to say I’m not a huge fan of shorts. Not to get all philosophic, but I do see major increases in short attention spans in all of my children and grandchildren. They all are just scrolling seemingly mindlessly through Tic Toc or Instagram, or TH-cam shorts. That’s what they do when the get together with friends or come to my house for a cookout. Scrolling and scrolling, and now scrolling past videos that are longer than 20 seconds cause they can’t wait they long. Steve you are a good guy and have taken the time to develop great videos and throw in free plans that are very useful. My patio and house are full of stuff made from your videos. But I have to say we are doing our younger generation a diservice by providing them an environment that gives them constant small shots of dopamine with these kinds of short snippets; they live for it and constantly search for another shot. I’m work as a data scientist and I can tell you that the data we are gathering about milenials and younger children in terms of brain function, and the ability to process information critically and develop life skills that were naturally acquired just 10 years ago is evaporating. The data is irrefutable. The data shows this to be and American phenomenon, as younger folks globally are actually increasing functional intelligence while Americans youth is dropping at an alarming rate while they chase the shot of dopamine. Steve this all of course isn’t your fault because of your shorts; but I do know from your podcast that you do like to discuss social media. When you look at some of the data I’m referring to, it would seem this might be a topic for you.
For the most part I agree. Most people would probably feel a lot better if they spent less time on social media. There are plenty of movements sprouting up (by young people) encouraging other young people to reduce screen time and I think the pendulum will swing back. Woodworking is one of those ways to do so.
But the length or format isn't really the main issue. I'm not sure if a 61 second "long" video is somehow "better" than a 60 second Short. Or if watching a 2 hour movie on Netflix is any different than watching shorts for 2 hours. Or even reading a book, which is a pretty anti-social activity but gets a pass from older people.
1:25 bit of an issue since my Moto G Stylus has a pre-rotated sensor so I can hold my phone wrong but it will record in 16:9.
You should watch "the spiffing brit" video on the subject. He'll explain how to take much more effective advantage of the current 'preference' TH-cam has for shorts. Why more then you might think.
I'll also point out that telling people to just not watch them makes no scenes. It's like telling you not to read the bad comments, just the good ones.
God damnit. I got halfway through this video before I realized you weren't talking about shorts as in wood shorts.
I'm not a fan of the shorts. I typically don't watch since most creators I follow upload them as teasers of sorts. When I sit down to watch TH-cam videos in the evenings, I still just go through my subscription feed. I'm pretty invested in the channels I follow. I'm probably not typical though (outside the 18-40 demographic) and I dont begrudge anyone for making them.
0:30 - Ohh, I didn't even realize that his is not the main channel :D
3:12 - I remember the time when YT front page changed from showing my subs to showing that YT thinks I would like. And that day I made a bookmark with the YT/feed/subscriptions URL and never looked back. I might be old fashioned but I do sub to channels and I watch every video from them. If I find myself watching less and less of their content I just unsub and maybe check back once in 2 months if I'm interested at all.
I watch shorts when you upload them and I spend my time mostly on desktop. There are a couple of channels where I'm subbed but I don't see their shorts on desktop. Before going to bed I like to check stuff on my phone and sometimes I check YT and find shorts there from channels I'm subbed but don't see their short videos on desktop version. I don't know why your videos show up on desktop...
I think what you channel needs more is more Jon&Lou!
I subscribe to help channels with the metric, but because I'm an old-school internet kind of guy, all of my subscriptions are served up and managed via feedly (RIP Google Reader :( ), which lets me time shift videos by hours/days (or some times even weeks). Yours might be the only channel I've seen "shorts" on, but I also mostly only watch on desktop or my TV so maybe the algorithm is hiding them from me.
I haven’t added any new subscriptions in 8 months or so. I do go to my subscription list and watch new videos from that. But , in the last few seconds, I swipe up and see what other videos YT is recommending. Re: Shorts: I don’t really watch them but I am a subscriber so there’s that. I would love to start a TH-cam channel on rookie woodworking but don’t have the smarts to do it. Lol
Your regular videos have disappeared. It seems you are more interested in "shorts" than the videos I watch. Don't turn this into TikTok bs.
Not my preference but when Steve speaks I at least turn an ear! Keep on Steve watched you for years and still really enjoy your builds!
I watch mostly on my TV, via Chromecast, while having breakfast on the couch... Does it make me an old school potato?
Really interesting stuff. I wonder if this new/impending TH-cam model will force you to rethink your brand/mission. Will you continue to be a “come to my channel to learn ww through fairly thorough, introductory curricular lessons” model,or more of a “resource for answering specific detailed questions” channel?
It's probably not an either/or thing. I can probably do both.
I just wish I could opt out of notifications for shorts.
All well and good.....as long as no one asks google "why has 4x2 lumber got round edges"
I hadn't expected these shorts to have such an impact. I don't like them because they are always very blurry half through the duration and because I want to watch a whole project and fear you don't post as many of them anymore (what seems to be true at the moment).
This is TH-cam’s way to complete against TikTok and Instagram and cater to that audience. Pretty much that’s it.
It isn't that I don't like your shorts... I watch all of your videos - but you haven't been producing many non-short videos lately and THAT is why I commented the other day. I thought you'd stopped making videos longer than a minute and maybe you have. I guess time will tell. We still love you from outside Ottawa, Ontario 🇨🇦
Respectfully, as long as phones can easily be turned to view content in landscape wide screen format there’s no excuse to have videos in portrait format.
Turn you phones people!
I don't like shorts, but I watch some anyway. Thanks utoob! But Steve, thanks for the insider look at the machinery behind youtube.
Your's is the only channel I'm subscribed to.that does "#shorts" I have 3 TH-cam channels with 3 distinctly different interests. This one for woodworking I am subbed to 95 different channels. My other 2 channels have 241.
Your shorts are good. Funny enough you are the only one I consistently see shorts for. I do want to repeat. Do not overly music on your videos. I just makes it too hard to hear you speaking. You are cramming a lot of good info in these and no need to make it harder to catch everything.
Shorts is a version-ish of tictok. I mostly ignore unless I just feel idle.
Now we need shorts on How to fold a shirt and how to drive a nail the right way.
The only thing that annoys me about this platform is that a bunch of users still encourage me to like and subscribe to their channel after every video. I subscribe to the content that I want to see on a daily basis and I use likes to keep track of my favorite videos.
Hey Steve! What kind of drill press table do you have in the back there and do you recommend it? Thanks!
That's an old Ryobi...back before they were green!
@@SteveRamsey Thanks! I was curious about the table and fence attached to it. Is it aftermarket or was it included? Seems like a premium feature for such an affordable tool.
@@philedwards5703 oh sorry...I misread that lol. Here's the table: th-cam.com/video/xkXY7JeLSKk/w-d-xo.html
Fantastic! Don't know how I missed it. Well done on this one! I love projects like these that are relatively easy and result in a product that is superior to those available on the market. I've watched your videos for ages. Keep up the great work and don't forget to take some time to really be proud of what you've built with this channel (and yourself) and how far you've come.
I appreciate your posting this. I do understand better why you would want to experiment with this format.
I'm still not sure you're hearing much of our feedback when you say "That's fine, but don't bother telling me" I made one comment and that was your reply as well. What I don't think you heard is that we really like you and your content, and we're concerned about the impact of "Don't watch them" on your base algorithm performance. Because it's not just "don't watch them." The fastest growing TH-cam viewing use case is on television via OTT box (Your comments in this video seem to only see a binary of mobile and desktop). Mobile is shrinking a bit.
On TV, we're faced with two issues: 1. the vertical format is especially problematic and 2. We're shown about 20 videos in our recommended list. If we don't watch them, they tend to stick around blocking other content unless we mark them as "Not Interested." I hate clicking Not Interested on your videos because I'm afraid that hurts you, but I don't have much other choice.
Additionally, there is a bit of FOMO about missing out on that content. Another TH-camr my husband follows is trying something interesting and releasing a traditionally formatted recap of that week's shorts which has been nice.
In the end, even if this is a passing bump because TH-cam is extra promoting shorts videos, I hear that it's helpful to get those subs even if it only lasts until the shorts marketplace is more crowded. I'd just also appreciate a bit more acknowledgment of how it's impacting your core viewership rather than lumping us together as whiners and luddites. Both your complaints and ours are more complex than that.
Here's where I'm getting device info: www.emarketer.com/content/youtube-viewing-shifting-ctv-screens
It shows last year that TV share rose from 27.0 to 34.4% while mobile dropped from 49.0 to 40.9%.
As for the binary you mention between mobile vs desktop, desktop is only about 10-11% of viewership. It's Roku/FireTV/Cord-cutters vs mobile, and shorts are rough on the cord-cutting crowd.
Very good video Steve. Thanks for pulling the curtain back. At the end of the day, you must leverage opportunities to bring new blood to your channel if it is to survive. As you well know, past success does not guarantee future success. Us "ole timers" will just have to see the shorts as what they are. Begrudging them doesn't help us, so we should view them as yet another enabler to your channel health which in turn will benefit us by you continuing to produce excellent content. In the end, I am not a fan of shorts, but I do watch them....all of them(yours). If for anything, in support of you and your channel. A worthy investment for just 60 seconds of my time. P.S. LOVE the cutting board video. Lastly, LOVE your courses. Hope there will be more of them in the future.
I don’t watch shorts! As you talked about somewhat, I think shorts are for manipulating people herding them like sheep. They are a tool. Just my two cents.
It's weird how some creators I only want shorts. I find Real Men Real Style videos to be too long, too "talky" because I don't care about style but his how-to shorts I love! I just want to know how to tie my shoes, not the why. But for you, I want the why. I guess thats where the line might be. Do you what an answer or do you want a story and it depends on the topic/creator. Cause I'll watch 20 videos of Mattias just fucking about.
Of course, cargo shorts are really where it's at
Lol...the 90's live on!
I haven't really gotten into your shorts yet... wait.
Personally I enjoy shorts. In the summer pants can be stifling and don't breath so well. Shorts offer comfort and mobility.
Oh wait... You're talking about short videos?
Also sounds for as a mee too copy from tiktok. I personally dont need shorts because i'm able to concentrate more than 60 seconds. I like well prepared videos that go into the details only a pro woodworker can do. How would you put that information into shorts? By making 20 shorts? Not my cup of tea. But hey, if you like it, make it. I'll keep on watching your "traditional" videos then.