Remember that time Capcom brought Dead Rising 2 over to modern consoles and the game took 5 minutes to get past the Application Boot-up screen? Remember how everyone initially thought the game was freezing? Remember how it took Capcom TWO MONTHS to fix this? What a great company.
The PS4 version of Dead Rising 2 that came out in 2016. The application boot-up screen took so long to get through, and without any visual indicator that it was doing anything, that the vast majority of players considered the title unplayable until some fans (not Capcom) confirmed that the game would actually start up after around 5 minutes (being generous with that number) of waiting. No part of Capcom ever mentioned this problem, even post launch, and it wasn't patched until 2 months later. The rerelease also had freezing issues on console that weren't present in the 2010 release.
it's true !!! Remember when Capcom had released Resident Evil director's cut and had promised integrale scene without censorship... result : Nothing !!! exactly like the original game !!! And even if they make an update lool , the cartridge/cd is very badly made !!! Too easy to do crap and after making an update...
Great video, GigaBoots. I was really curious about how the X Legacy Collection as a whole stood up against all of the other titles on the original hardware as well as the PS2/GC collection. Thank you for this.
No problem! After I’m done with the X Collection on Switch, Xbone, and pc (plus SNES Mini) I’m going to move onto some other retro collections like the original MM Legacy Collection, Rare Replay, and the Sega stuff. Then we’ll do some genre analysis of action games.
Needlecrash It plays fine, honestly I feel like this is more just looking for a problem just to nit pick, we all know what the Legacy Collection it's Capcom testing the ground to see everyone's response, and really I sitting here mashing the X button and it feels great.
The Analogue Super NT is not "analog". Analogue is the name of the company. 8 frames of input lag is not an inescapable nature of current tech. It's trivial to emulate Mega Man X at around half of that input lag on a PC. If you have a fast PC, you can almost match the original console (within a few tenths of a frame).
"honestly I feel like this is more just looking for a problem just to nit pick" Sounds like you're just insecure about the fact that you're being shown what a casual you are. There's nothing wrong with not being as serious of a player as others, it's when you start getting uppity and combative towards those more serious players that you look like a whiny pissant.
Ohh thats why I feel the controls more cluncky and it's harder to react to boss atacks, also making difficult jumps like the one for getting the shoryuken en X2 and grabbing the heart container from Wheel Aligator stage without add ups.
Even though on the original versions, the snes is clocked @60.09hz the buttons on the actual snes controller require less travel distance to make contact than the PS4 buttons. When I played between both versions thats when I noticed. After somewhat adjusting to the difference I began to kick ass again with no problems.
nice just brought the collection, us version 60 euros, and now i find out that it has 4 times the imput lag the snes version had, i am super sensitive to imput lag so this gonna be a lot of fun...
GigaBoots people usually see this type of thing as *nitpicking* like it's going to really hurt their general experience. I love the collection but thought the video gave me some inseight as I'm not one that really notices input lag.
Yeah, but it's so frustrating ... I just had killed Sigma in MMX and took me 2 hr, I had to use Hadouken and E-Tanks cuz he' driving me crazy, I wanted to kill him in a fair battle :/
Yeah I really hope there’s a way to patch it and improve the lag. I don’t understand how lag can’t be fixed for modern high powered systems. It’s the one thing holding the collection back.
Davis1228 That’s not true if you at least played the originals, just a little bit. A lot of things you could do, and expect to do, with the originals can’t be done. It’s upsetting. Love the games, still supported them, but I won’t just shut up because they can/most likely won’t fix it.
this is a no win issue, there's no way around it, unfortunatelly. from the diferent ways display present the games, to the fact that most new consoles use wireless controllers, to even the simple truth that games made for older consoles wont run well, in newer machines because of the amount of busywork required to emulate said machines. at the end of the day, if you want a new collection, there will be imput lag, they may be able to optmize things, and make it closer to the ps2 collection. but if im being honest, im pretty sure this is basically emulation on top of emulation so dont expect miracles.
I tested the Steam ver. with the original PC version as well. I tried to do the Z cancel saber combo and HO BOY!!!! the Input lag was REALLY taking a toll on me and my gameplay.
Hand held are considerably easier than on the controller. I played X4 with the PSP and Vita with the PSX JP ver. and the cancelling was much easier and I played it for like an extended of time when I took the bus. The Switch controller imo was also ideal for Saber cancelling imo. My playthrough on my channel was the PSN JP ver. PS3 and the canceling was much much easier than the collection. My PC was packing up with 1080ti.
One thing I've also noticed they did in X8 to help the game feel was they made it so your dash, jump, wall jump, and attack have almost no wind up animation so you actions happen as fast as possible.
Chocobo Chokeslam you do realize the man himself still wants people to buy the fucking game, why he showed it this way as kinda a march against the game is kinda incoherent to his clear want for a new x game, but he does say despite these issues which let's be honest unless you're looking for it you're not going to find them to still support the game.
FromBeyondTheGrave1 actually the latency is incredibly noticeable in specific circumstances. Throwing a tantrum at everyone who points out problems with the collection is not helping, it's just desperate fanboying. Yes I want an X9 but I don't want a pile of shit being passed of as a new game. Capcom needs to know that the consumer demands quality. Your attitude is literally killing the gaming industry. Blindly supporting developers while they put out bad product is going to lead to a collapse. As it is the input lag issues are fixable via hardware and software patches so the games are playable but I am not going to lie to consumers and not acknowledge the piss poor launch on all consoles out of some desperate attempt to get a sequel. X9 is going to hinge on how well MM11 sells.
I hope this isn't just me, but the screen tearing in Mega Man X3 (on a PS4 Pro) is unreal. I really hope a patch is coming to address some of these issues.
Let me mimic half this comment section. "You wouldn't even notice the screen tearing unless you played the originals two hours before playing the collection!" ;)
Interesting data results Thank You for this! There's no denying the latency but I was noticing, maybe someone else might of mentioned already but at least across the first 3 X's I noticed that there is a lot more travel in between button press on the PS4 vs a Snes controller. I don't have the equipment to film or measure that difference but I do believe it is something to be accounted for adding more delay than it should. If you notice the A&B on the snes requires less distance to make contact vs on the PS4. I was ever so slightly pushing down on the PS4 controller to see how much or further it would have travel before contact and it's quite a bit. The Snes controller you can notice the difference if you have a 8bitdo wireless snes remote I compared those and also noticed the travel issue as well. It wasn't as much but maybe it has something to do with the silicone pads being the correct size for an authoritative feel. It could just be me rambling but I think you should definitely look into it. Cheers!
I used the DS4 with the 8bitdo on SNES and the only difference input lag was exactly what was expected given that it's a wireless device now. Third video coming sometime next week, it's got everything.
Davis1228 You know you're wrong right. Anybody that has a history with playing games can feel the lag or unresponsive inputs in the game. You don't need to have played the originals in order to tell that this game is slower. Just because you want a new X game doesn't mean I should let bad porting slide.
MrComic23, you know that your argument is also relative, right? there arent as many people that care about imput lag as you think there are. sure there are many, but they are far and away from the majority. most wont even know its a thing! seriously, dont treat this as common knowledge, its not.
Marcos Danilo Dude, anybody can visibly see lag especially when it's an 8 secand delay. I mean I don't know how/why you would defend this. It's just a bad port of some good games. Yes, some people won't care but a whole bunch do. It would be nice if capcom fixed it.
of course anyone would see an 8 second delay, thing is, its NOT 8 seconds, its 8 frames. also, there's no real way around this, they would need to make the game from the ground up, they may be able to cut a few frames, but dont expect some miracle. there are too many problems, from the new TVs natural delay compared with the old tvs, to even the wireless controllers. its not something easy to fix.
@@GigaBoots interesting, would love to see an analysis on it, because I’ve heard it’s fixed. But I guess that will never happen because you’ve made your mind. Oh well
I THOUGHT I WAS CRAZY! 😂 I said “I guess it’s cause the games old ya know” I even bought it on the PS4 and switch cause I originally thought it’s the pro controller on the switch
Watch "My life in gaming" episode and learn the basics of FAT and slim versions first. Even X-Box 360 emulates original X-Box being not powerful then laugh like moron. Also: there are several PS1 emulators for PS2 like POPStarter and PS2PSXe. So, you're fucked.
Its not emulation, neither interpretation. "Au contraire". Its strange, but really... The fat ps2 comes with ps1 original hardware. Ps2 slim comes with similar hardware, almost original, not enough to say that is emulation. Its like the snes jr version compared to its original, its modified hardware, but its not emulation. Like so, the megadrive versions 2 and 3: not emulation, original..ish hardware.
FAT PS2 has the PS1 CPU as an I/O controller, which acts as the CPU when playing PS1 games. It includes PS1's 2MB RAM. Meanwhile, PS1 games' GPU duties are performed by the PS2's graphics synthesizer in hardware (since it is a hardware successor - it is essentially eight PS1 GPUs glued together). Here's where things get tricky. The slim PS2, like the fat PS2, has many different motherboard revisions - even under the same serial number. Slim PS2's I/O MIPS chip can still comprise the entirety of PS1's R3000A, sometimes with and without PS1's RAM, and IDE traces (30-second soldering can install an IDE HDD!). But, even if the R3000A chip is included in a slim PS2, it is unused for PS1 games. It's only for I/O processing peripherals. To run PS1 games, slim PS2 performs PS1's CPU, GTE (Geometry Transfer Engine), MDEC (Motion Decoder) and SPU through emulation on the PS2's CPU (Emotion Engine) instead. Hence PS1 games' generally higher frame-rates, incompatibility with PS1 and PS2 games which used the R3000A for I/O sound processing (or in Jak X's case, network data on PS1's RAM), and missing music and reverb due to the lack of PS1 SPU in slim PS2s. Slim's CPU was overclocked from to 294MHz to 299MHz for this. Sony designed this for easier PS1/PS2 emulation in PS3. Also: original version of PS3 has PS2 hardware to play its games natively nut was axed to reduce production costs. All PS2 games in PSN are emulated. Among titles you could found "Contra: Shattered Soldier", "Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas" (until infamous 2014 destruction), "Need For Speed: Most Wanted" and many others.
The final video on this collection is out! We tested all platforms for the XLC and we tested Virtual Console (Wii U & 3DS) SNES Classic, and more! Please enjoy, it took an intense amount of work: th-cam.com/video/EvZkty_FQHA/w-d-xo.html
It was, I explained the method in the other video about this. I film at 1200, count the frames between the button and action, and subtract our TVs input lag which we know because of our Leo Bodnar device. So yea, a tv is connected but no, it doesn’t affect latency.
Question on your testing: did you use the ps4 controller wirelessly and wired on the test? The second gen controllers can apparently use an option that when played wired they have less lag. I haven't tried it yet, but that may help.
In order to reduce latency it would need at least 500Hz polling, 1000Hz preferred but it's only 250Hz. Switch also does it. Our new video on the X Legacy Collection talks about it. Coming out in the next day or two.
Do you plan on testing the SNES Classic and Virtual Console releases? I also wonder if there are any input differences between the PS2 and PC versions of MMX8.
We don’t have the Gamecube version and it’s pricy so we won’t be covering it. The PS2 Collection and Wired SNES results are ready to watch now. th-cam.com/video/F-zTRrolyUg/w-d-xo.html
I'm so glad that I'm not the only player who feels the lag. It's kind of sad to realize that there's no way to solve this input lag on PS4 ATM... Capcom please work on this for Megaman fans!!!!
Hopefully the Switch/One video goes up soon, all comparisons i've seen so far have been of the PS4 version but im really curious how the other ones run.
We finally finished all the tests after over a week of work. This info is pretty huge IMO so look forward to it soon. I'm writing it now, hopefully it goes up by Friday!
I haven't played the Megaman X series in almost a decade. And the moment I started playing X2 on this collection, I felt the lag immediately. I thought my remote control or game was broken.
We explain this in the original video but I thought I also noted it here but judging by the comments section I didn’t. The displays input lag is subtracted from all of the numbers depending on where on the screen where measuring the action. The bottom of the screen has more input lag them the top, generally speaking. Some displays are actually upside down in that regard, but ours is normal. If you are curious, the input lag on our display is 21.5 ms in the center region
List the tv you used to measure the lag, please. There are probably a few variables that go into the lag test including the tv ability to transcode and/or upconvert a digital vs analog signal. If you had one available, an original ps3 that has hardware to play ps2 games would be interesting to include. Also all ps3 systems can play ps1 games.
1. We mentioned this in the last video but forgot to mention it here, the input lag of the TV is subtracted. On average the input lag on our B7 LG OLEG is 21.5ms and at the bottom of the screen it's 25ms. This will be re-clarified in our next video. 2. We've tested Mega Man X1 16 total times for our third video on this topic but sure, we'll add more tests to this. Our final day of testing is tomorrow and then I'm making the script and everything. 3. If you could sub and stick around for this that'd be great. There's some huge bombshells in our next vid.
I said this in the last video but maybe I forgot to say it again here: We subtract the entirety of the displays input lag. We measure it based on a device called a Leo Bodnar Tester. The display's lag literally accounts for none of these figures.
I assume the reason for the feature is to reduce interference. Don't worry though, the PS4 isn't alone in this, the switch does the same thing. Wired is more latent than wireless. Check it out: th-cam.com/video/EvZkty_FQHA/w-d-xo.html
So I have a question: what about a wired controller directly into the PS4? Would that matter at all or would it do nothing to decrease the input latency by any decent amount?
All of the display’s input lag is subtracted from the figures so it is not taking it into account. If you’re curious though we are using an OLED with 21.5 ms.
I realize that on a Nintendo Switch, there is little to no lag when you use it in handheld mode or when you use the joycons as one controller with the grip. It is even better when you play the japanese versions of x1 and x2. Little to no lag with the others. However, I notice the lag when using any other bluetooth controller (8bitdo and off brand pro controllers). Not sure about the pro controller itself, but im guessing it has lag also as others report lag. I have to ask if switch owners are using any other controller aside from the joycons?
We have a video up now about the Switch version and all the others and we tested them all with various controllers: th-cam.com/video/EvZkty_FQHA/w-d-xo.html
The 4th generation (SNES) X games (X1 - X3) are alright but I like 5th generation (PS1, Sega Saturn) and 6th generation (PS2) X games (X4 - X6, X7 - X8) more. Even X6 and X7!
Hey! thank you for the video! I have bought both X collections on Steam. Do you know if there is any input lag on the PC ? I'm on an older generation I7 and I'm thinking of playing X 1, 2 and 3 again, but I'm not sure if I should play it on my PC or SNES. I personally cant stand 100ms+ imput lag, but maybe if I play on a Gaming-Monitor, the lag wont be as bad as on a modern TV.
We’re testing the PC version right now. It will be covered in our third video. Our second video is up and it covers all the games in the collection: th-cam.com/video/F-zTRrolyUg/w-d-xo.html
Thanks, Gigabois. I'll be waiting for this info as well, since PC is the target of my potential purchase. No way I'm paying full price for a product if it turns out to be dog shit, and I'm not as tolerant for something as basic as emulation to get botched if the product ends up being a piss-poor effort to cash and dash.
+FromBeyondTheGrave1 Aw you're so cute. 1. I never said not buy it. I said "not paying full price for it". 2. Dan doesn't give me money (and neither do you) so I will spend it in whatever damn way I want. Tough titties but that's real life for us.
I purchased the game on steam as a means to conveniently practice some runs on my pc when I'm not up to hooking up my ps1 or snes to speed run the games. I set up all the options for what I assume would offer "best performance" then started mmx and immediately noticed the input lag as soon I held right and shot a few lemons. I quit game, tried the others and was appalled by the delay in all the titles, especially x3, while x4 didn't seem too bad but still very noticable. Unfortunately I may be out of a wasted 20$ unless I can somehow get a refund. I honestly feel ripped off, if no go on a refund, my fingers are crossed for an update to address this poor performance. What a shame too, I was actually really excited for this :(
We've never done Street Fighter because Noodalls on Twitter has a good track record when it comes to actually testing fighting games. Turns out that SF 30th Anniversary Collection has a really good input lag score on 3rd Strike. Only a few ms more latent than originally IIRC.
PS4 input lag sounds a lot higher than what I'm seeing on PC MMXLC, which seems below the SNESC. Assuming of course you're not running one of the potatoes that actually exacerbates the issues; PC performance kinda spikes depending on what rig you've got. Mine's beefy and it's pretty close to Higan performance imo.
is there any fix for this yet? I read in some forums that disabling the wallpaper in the game cold make the trick, but I still have input lag...how the hell am I supposed to play a game that requires precision and exact timing with this damn input lag?
Our final video on this is coming out soon. There is no fix but that video has some REALLY interesting info on which platform to play it on and how crazy better it can get.
I know you said you're sensitive to input lag, but I want to stress for anyone on the fence about buying the game that the lag barely affected my experience with the games and getting the Platinum. I don't think the input lag is enough to refuse to buy the games over, especially Legacy Collection 1. I really want Capcom to make a new X game and I think $20 is a fair price to ask for X1, X2, X3, and X4, regardless of the added lag.
Can't agree at all. The SNES games feel nearly unplayable to me on PS4. The second collection fairs better but it's disappointing that Capcom doesn't care about the quality of these ports and people are dismissing the problems they the collections have.
WaddleDee105 yes it is troubling that Capcom couldn't have put 100% attention and love into this release. Although, I honestly can't tell the difference because I haven't played an original on a snes in like 15 years. If I were to have recently played the x series on a Snes and crt, and then play the mmxlc on a modern console, I guarantee you I would feel it as well. It's not a big deal to most of us because we don't have a point of reference.
As someone who casually speedruns the SNES games on original hardware, I gotta say the lag is pretty trivial. It is barely noticeable and the game plays pretty close to how it did back then. A lot of people just want to find reason to complain like this or lag (which is pretty ridiculous, because the game lagged in the SNES in certain areas and the emulation was set to imitate it), but the truth is that the collection is pretty good and worth it.
Alex Morales Carballo You’re ridiculous. This video is me analyzing input lag. It’s objective measurement of a metric of the game’s performance. If people don’t think Input Lag is legitimately important then why do these X input lag videos have thousands of views?
I wish I could do it but after justifying the XB1 to test that version of the X Legacy Collection and other games we're doing in the future, I really really really can't justify buying X1 on PC. I could probably find a download on though. IDK.
You could've also compare the Wii, Wii U and New 3DS Virtual Console as well as the GameCube version of the old collection and the Xbox One, Switch and PC (Steam) version of X1's input lag too.
If you are planning to do X4 input lag aswell, then also compare it to the 2006 collection, PS1 Classics version on PS3, PSVita and PSP, the PC CD-ROM version and Sega Saturn.
You do realize these videos take 40+ hours to make, right? But yea, our final video will cover every platforn that X Legacy Coll. is on as well as 3DS and Wii U versions of X1. Its a huge undertaking.
When it comes to the player's objective results of the tests, focus only on the number of frames lost from latency, not the milliseconds and the percents. If you're going to base the purchase of a game based on sheer numbers which may represent your reaction time and extreme hypersensitivity to milliseconds of image processing, you should be selling your mind and body to the military.
Aqua Jet This is a pretty common misconception. The exact part of a frame time that Input is received is a huge part of how quickly it can impact the game. Some times, games are even inconsistent about whether on how long it takes to affect the game even when the input time relative to frame-time is identical every time. Noodals charts show these sorts of things over on twitter. They are really obtuse though so it’s okay if you can’t figure them out.
No wonder I didn't feel it as much... The X Collection was how I was already used to playing the games. I personally don't mind it at all, but I'm well aware that that doesn't mean that it isn't a problem.
Playable is not enjoyable, I think I prefer the Wii U Virtual console versions and of course the originals on SNES. But I only have X3 Super Famicom cartridge.
Can we get a side by side comparison at full speed, please? X1 SNES on the left, X1 PS4 on the right, and sync up the button presses that way we can actually SEE the latency?
I’m not really interested in this but people keep asking for it. Why is that? What’s wrong with numbers? Also, you can see our test in the beginning of the vid.
GigaBoots I think it's because we're more visual. It's hard for us normal gamers (who don't really care about 30 or 60 fps so long as the game is fun) to visualize what an 80ms delay looks like.
I guess in the future we can do something like this, but I think playing it back at real time speeds will have people understate the impact on the game feel. For example, Killzone 2 which got lambasted for how "heavy" and "unresponsive" it felt was only slightly more than 1/5 of a second input lag. In realtime that doesn't look like much at all but it made the game really awful compared to Call of Duty: MW and people noted it for such. It's reviews suffered for that reason, and they had to reduce input lag on the next game.
Look, I am a big fan of this games, I have basically played them all several times, and consider myself an expert, but in this collection, is like i was a newbie, there are stuff I was used to do that I suddenly became really bad at, i just feel like the controls doesn’t respond the way I use to, and is really baad... it really messes up the experience of gaming, we really need a patch...
Input lag is really important and the journalistic side of this industry should cover it. It's too bad that they're nowhere near interested in anything technical.
Eh not a big deal to me. I would believe X4 on PS3 (a PS1 Classic) as well as X8 on PS3 (you can get as a PS2 Classic from the JPN Store) would be exactly the same.
Well, we didn't have a SNES controller plugged in (we'll be testing solutions for that in the future) but we did thoroughly test PC in the final video in this series: th-cam.com/video/EvZkty_FQHA/w-d-xo.html
Even with this input lag, I never had latency issues messing me up while getting two Platinums. Its nowhere near as bad as Mega Man Anniversary Collection.
Your ability to get a platinum is irrelevant. I triple platinum’d Mighty No. 9 and that game has horrible framerate, stability, and design problems. Also, I’ll check that out to see if you’re right!
GigaBoots, this was mostly a message to peeps who were turned off by the numbers and saying “blargh ruined” in the comment section. Regarding MMAC, it really had noticeable lag even on CRT, with MM1-6 inheriting it from Rockman Complete Works rereleases (RM2 had as much lag on my Vita). Dunno why that carried over to MM7 and 8 tho.
rRegarding the lag I just now realized what you mean cause when playing more of the games I noticed that something is off cause when testing the buttons by itself it is not that noticable but when put in an intense situation o boy this is where the frames start to bite you. From my ecperience x1-3 were the worst in that case. x4-6 not as bad but still there x7-8 were the smoothest when comes to control input Still enjoy the collection.
I've heard that you can fix the lag issues by changing the game's screen settings (ie: the lag is only that bad on the default settings). Can anyone confirm this?
I mean, Input Latency literally makes things require tighter responses from the player because they no have almost 6 fewer frames to react to everything.
I can tell you from using the ps5 that it has less latency at all times than the PS4 so I would likewise expect a mild reduction here. This wasn’t tested but i can feel an 8ms difference and I’m certain of it. Online analysis of the Dualsense on PC reflects my findings.
That would be really neat. Maybe we'll get around to it sometime soon! For now, we have a 3rd video in this series that covers literally everything: th-cam.com/video/EvZkty_FQHA/w-d-xo.html
i think the psp game has the best one.. i dunno it feels very smooth to when i press and he jumps. the one i hate most is the original snes one as much as i like the game the input is just... off? delayed. i get better playtroughs on the emulated version.
I play on the Xbox One X with a Hori wired fight commander controller. It definitely feels more responsive than the Switch version. Even playing on the Xbox One X though, nothing beats the original SNES and PSX hardware.
@@GigaBoots Oh, i think i confounded your video, i had multiple taps open, my bad. I recognized it when i saw your name after you answered my comment. Anyway, i have a question: is it normal hat the figure in megaman 1 and 2 need half a second to walk after i press right/left?
I played it I dont see what's the problem and I like it so sorry but I am glad that I dont have to spend hundreds of dollars for the Super Nintendo version or PS2 version. I know that capcom is a money mad company but it's better then spending hundreds of dollars I look up the Super Nintendo version in Amazon for the Mega man X1-X3 the X1 is around $330😱🤯 something X2 $109😱 I believe so and the X3 $206😱 you people are out of your minds and the Gamecube version for the Mega man X collection is $100 😱 but if I go to Estarland I could get it for $36.88 so ya very cheap for the X1 game
MrAmazing79 indeed I almost fell of my chair lol you would think that video games would not cost that much but hay people love money to much sad though. But we got the Mega man x Legacy Collection so I am happy 😊
They cost that much because they're rare and desirable, idiot. Back then they didn't release games digitally or produce millions of copies, the gaming medium was smaller and less copies were produced, making them rare decades later as more people get into video games but the amount of copies floating around remain the same. There are other alternatives, too. You can emulate the first three games and probably get decently less input delay than these versions, or you can buy them on the Virtual Console on Wii U if you own one. I don't know how they stack up but if memory serves the delay on Wii U was not as bad as this collection. By the way the X Collection from last gen is only expensive on Gamecube, the PS2 version is cheap as dirt.
Man of Truth well they can stay rare forever for collectors all the days of its life. But me nope I am glad I dont have to spend hundreds of dollars so I thank capcom for that even though there money mad company plus things dont last forever so to me they have no value. People with souls and spirit have value but objects do not. But if collector what's these game go for it. Just dont get mad if company decides To re-release a game in this generation console. Finally the younger people get to play Mega Man X games all in one With out spending hundreds of dollars.
Besides I think lag is funny people rage like no tomorrow and they get mad all because of a lag or some glitchy stuff that's in the game then talks about input latency like this was not here or there or anywhere this is not the Original game. That's because it's called the X Legacy collection they make you think that it is and then the rage comes out I see lag here and there lag lag lagging! See funny 😂. Anyway I like the X Legacy collection great game still dont see any lag that you people cry about lag lag laggy!😱
+Davis1228 So he has to eat shit even if he doesn't want to in order to ensure somewhere, sometime, the game developer MIGHT feel kind enough to give this person something edible when they feel like it? Yeah, no. It's not his or anyone's fault if there isn't an mmx9 ever. Go fucking kick rocks, the internet is just too much for you.
Fair initiative. Though honestly I doubt it would be too much of a noticeable hindrance unless you're speed running or something. And as others have said it takes purchase and proof that there is a fan base that wants another X game or more Mega Man games. I'm tired of buying and seeing the classic series get pushed forward, especially with the 8-bit era being pushed like a race horse devoid of it's fluids, but Legacy Collection proved there was a market for it; proved that people wanted it. Thus Mega Man 11 was green lit. As for X... well, that has yet to be seen. It's up in the air. They have done a terrible job with it and clearly did not take the care that they did with the classic Legacy Collection. However, I will still be purchasing it. Because they need proof. Believe it or not, they don't do this stuff for the fans. They do it for business. Fans are the after thought. With that being said I urge you to reconsider that notion even if you're not going to play it or hate it. Give them crap for it, that's for sure via honest reviewing so they know what's up. Get it while it's on sale or something. Or don't. Just putting that all out there.
Collection is completely playable and unless u play on an snes plugged into a crt you won't notice. Don't listen to this nonsense lol some of these people need to get outta the house more often lol
GigaBoots it's an easy, 40 dollar way to play these games. Not everyone cares about hooking up a massive crt in their house to play this game. You have made 2 whole videos bitching about lag. Watch my stream I just did beating this game with no problems at all. You are turning away people from this game before they even try it.
GigaBoots look how many people have commented saying they aren't buying it based on your videos. Don't bitch when they stop making mega man games again cuz you have contributed to it. The lag in this game is fractions of a second and undetectable by most human beings and you are two videos in like its the end of the world lol what's your "deal" ?
You're ridiculous. Demanding a better product while making objective scientific measurements of how bad this collection is somehow me being some sort of bully in your eyes. Get outta here with this weak nonsense. Expect better from companies and you will get better.
![ปฏิเสธไม่ไหว (Crush on you) - LIPTA feat. No One Else [TEASER MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/VC689EgdSIw/mqdefault.jpg)
Remember that time Capcom brought Dead Rising 2 over to modern consoles and the game took 5 minutes to get past the Application Boot-up screen? Remember how everyone initially thought the game was freezing? Remember how it took Capcom TWO MONTHS to fix this?
What a great company.
Wow, I didn’t know. What version did that happen on?
The PS4 version of Dead Rising 2 that came out in 2016. The application boot-up screen took so long to get through, and without any visual indicator that it was doing anything, that the vast majority of players considered the title unplayable until some fans (not Capcom) confirmed that the game would actually start up after around 5 minutes (being generous with that number) of waiting. No part of Capcom ever mentioned this problem, even post launch, and it wasn't patched until 2 months later.
The rerelease also had freezing issues on console that weren't present in the 2010 release.
it's true !!! Remember when Capcom had released Resident Evil director's cut and had promised integrale scene without censorship... result : Nothing !!! exactly like the original game !!! And even if they make an update lool , the cartridge/cd is very badly made !!! Too easy to do crap and after making an update...
Great video, GigaBoots. I was really curious about how the X Legacy Collection as a whole stood up against all of the other titles on the original hardware as well as the PS2/GC collection. Thank you for this.
No problem! After I’m done with the X Collection on Switch, Xbone, and pc (plus SNES Mini) I’m going to move onto some other retro collections like the original MM Legacy Collection, Rare Replay, and the Sega stuff. Then we’ll do some genre analysis of action games.
I can hope for a patch. I hate to have a release like this marred by input lag, resulting in sluggish movement.
Davis1228 I have a Analogue Super NT and the difference is night and day.
Davis1228 True. I just hope for a patch to be honest.
Needlecrash It plays fine, honestly I feel like this is more just looking for a problem just to nit pick, we all know what the Legacy Collection it's Capcom testing the ground to see everyone's response, and really I sitting here mashing the X button and it feels great.
The Analogue Super NT is not "analog". Analogue is the name of the company. 8 frames of input lag is not an inescapable nature of current tech. It's trivial to emulate Mega Man X at around half of that input lag on a PC. If you have a fast PC, you can almost match the original console (within a few tenths of a frame).
"honestly I feel like this is more just looking for a problem just to nit pick"
Sounds like you're just insecure about the fact that you're being shown what a casual you are. There's nothing wrong with not being as serious of a player as others, it's when you start getting uppity and combative towards those more serious players that you look like a whiny pissant.
Ohh thats why I feel the controls more cluncky and it's harder to react to boss atacks, also making difficult jumps like the one for getting the shoryuken en X2 and grabbing the heart container from Wheel Aligator stage without add ups.
Yep. :\
Some of x5 and x6 boss become really hard and tedious to kill for me because of this
Even though on the original versions, the snes is clocked @60.09hz the buttons on the actual snes controller require less travel distance to make contact than the PS4 buttons. When I played between both versions thats when I noticed. After somewhat adjusting to the difference I began to kick ass again with no problems.
wait till you die repeatedly on the intro boss in x8 because dash jumping is a nightmare.
Nah kiddo except you're wrong.
I can feel the lag harder to jump off hard to reach edge. But still it is worth to have all the X collection to bad X command mission is not included.
nice just brought the collection, us version 60 euros, and now i find out that it has 4 times the imput lag the snes version had, i am super sensitive to imput lag so this gonna be a lot of fun...
Over a year later and still no patch. It's depressing.
People are being super defensive in the comments when all this was for was informational purposes
Yea, it's quite strange. People hate the fact that something is objectively bad about this collection..
GigaBoots people usually see this type of thing as *nitpicking* like it's going to really hurt their general experience. I love the collection but thought the video gave me some inseight as I'm not one that really notices input lag.
Yeah, but it's so frustrating ... I just had killed Sigma in MMX and took me 2 hr, I had to use Hadouken and E-Tanks cuz he' driving me crazy, I wanted to kill him in a fair battle :/
Yeah I really hope there’s a way to patch it and improve the lag. I don’t understand how lag can’t be fixed for modern high powered systems. It’s the one thing holding the collection back.
Davis1228 That’s not true if you at least played the originals, just a little bit. A lot of things you could do, and expect to do, with the originals can’t be done. It’s upsetting. Love the games, still supported them, but I won’t just shut up because they can/most likely won’t fix it.
this is a no win issue, there's no way around it, unfortunatelly. from the diferent ways display present the games, to the fact that most new consoles use wireless controllers, to even the simple truth that games made for older consoles wont run well, in newer machines because of the amount of busywork required to emulate said machines.
at the end of the day, if you want a new collection, there will be imput lag, they may be able to optmize things, and make it closer to the ps2 collection. but if im being honest, im pretty sure this is basically emulation on top of emulation so dont expect miracles.
I tested the Steam ver. with the original PC version as well. I tried to do the Z cancel saber combo and HO BOY!!!! the Input lag was REALLY taking a toll on me and my gameplay.
Hand held are considerably easier than on the controller. I played X4 with the PSP and Vita with the PSX JP ver. and the cancelling was much easier and I played it for like an extended of time when I took the bus. The Switch controller imo was also ideal for Saber cancelling imo. My playthrough on my channel was the PSN JP ver. PS3 and the canceling was much much easier than the collection. My PC was packing up with 1080ti.
I'm sure the PSP/Vita version is better when it comes to input lag.
Thanks for checking the PS2 collection as well. I always felt the PS2 collection added some input lag to the SNES titles. Now I know.
Pan Z no prob!
One thing I've also noticed they did in X8 to help the game feel was they made it so your dash, jump, wall jump, and attack have almost no wind up animation so you actions happen as fast as possible.
Yep, also falling starts immediately when you stop holding jump. It's super helpful. You can even see this in the test video.
This was really Good Dan. I look forward to how bad it is on the P.C.
Chocobo Chokeslam you do realize the man himself still wants people to buy the fucking game, why he showed it this way as kinda a march against the game is kinda incoherent to his clear want for a new x game, but he does say despite these issues which let's be honest unless you're looking for it you're not going to find them to still support the game.
FromBeyondTheGrave1 actually the latency is incredibly noticeable in specific circumstances. Throwing a tantrum at everyone who points out problems with the collection is not helping, it's just desperate fanboying. Yes I want an X9 but I don't want a pile of shit being passed of as a new game. Capcom needs to know that the consumer demands quality. Your attitude is literally killing the gaming industry. Blindly supporting developers while they put out bad product is going to lead to a collapse. As it is the input lag issues are fixable via hardware and software patches so the games are playable but I am not going to lie to consumers and not acknowledge the piss poor launch on all consoles out of some desperate attempt to get a sequel. X9 is going to hinge on how well MM11 sells.
I hope this isn't just me, but the screen tearing in Mega Man X3 (on a PS4 Pro) is unreal. I really hope a patch is coming to address some of these issues.
Let me mimic half this comment section. "You wouldn't even notice the screen tearing unless you played the originals two hours before playing the collection!" ;)
Interesting data results Thank You for this! There's no denying the latency but I was noticing, maybe someone else might of mentioned already but at least across the first 3 X's I noticed that there is a lot more travel in between button press on the PS4 vs a Snes controller. I don't have the equipment to film or measure that difference but I do believe it is something to be accounted for adding more delay than it should. If you notice the A&B on the snes requires less distance to make contact vs on the PS4. I was ever so slightly pushing down on the PS4 controller to see how much or further it would have travel before contact and it's quite a bit. The Snes controller you can notice the difference if you have a 8bitdo wireless snes remote I compared those and also noticed the travel issue as well. It wasn't as much but maybe it has something to do with the silicone pads being the correct size for an authoritative feel. It could just be me rambling but I think you should definitely look into it. Cheers!
I used the DS4 with the 8bitdo on SNES and the only difference input lag was exactly what was expected given that it's a wireless device now. Third video coming sometime next week, it's got everything.
Excitment is high for part 2
evileyeball yeah this make some boss in x5 and x6 become harder to kill without subtank and normal x
I mean, why would Capcom expect people to buy a port that runs worse than an emulator.
For me it's that I have a switch and want some portable megaman, which this provides.
Davis1228 You know you're wrong right. Anybody that has a history with playing games can feel the lag or unresponsive inputs in the game.
You don't need to have played the originals in order to tell that this game is slower.
Just because you want a new X game doesn't mean I should let bad porting slide.
MrComic23, you know that your argument is also relative, right? there arent as many people that care about imput lag as you think there are. sure there are many, but they are far and away from the majority.
most wont even know its a thing! seriously, dont treat this as common knowledge, its not.
Marcos Danilo Dude, anybody can visibly see lag especially when it's an 8 secand delay.
I mean I don't know how/why you would defend this. It's just a bad port of some good games.
Yes, some people won't care but a whole bunch do. It would be nice if capcom fixed it.
of course anyone would see an 8 second delay, thing is, its NOT 8 seconds, its 8 frames.
also, there's no real way around this, they would need to make the game from the ground up, they may be able to cut a few frames, but dont expect some miracle.
there are too many problems, from the new TVs natural delay compared with the old tvs, to even the wireless controllers.
its not something easy to fix.
Wait, how true is this still?
Never changed.
@@GigaBoots interesting, would love to see an analysis on it, because I’ve heard it’s fixed. But I guess that will never happen because you’ve made your mind. Oh well
Jesus, that's a LOT of lag!
Thank you for dedicating your time to this!
I THOUGHT I WAS CRAZY! 😂 I said “I guess it’s cause the games old ya know” I even bought it on the PS4 and switch cause I originally thought it’s the pro controller on the switch
Which PS2 did you use for testing "Rockman X4"? As far as I know, PS1 games work through hardware only on FAT models.
Slims use emulation instead of hardware due to removal of several components.
What??? PS2 has hardware to emulate PS1 in full speed? Bwahahahahahahahahaha
Watch "My life in gaming" episode and learn the basics of FAT and slim versions first. Even X-Box 360 emulates original X-Box being not powerful then laugh like moron. Also: there are several PS1 emulators for PS2 like POPStarter and PS2PSXe. So, you're fucked.
Its not emulation, neither interpretation. "Au contraire". Its strange, but really... The fat ps2 comes with ps1 original hardware. Ps2 slim comes with similar hardware, almost original, not enough to say that is emulation. Its like the snes jr version compared to its original, its modified hardware, but its not emulation. Like so, the megadrive versions 2 and 3: not emulation, original..ish hardware.
FAT PS2 has the PS1 CPU as an I/O controller, which acts as the CPU when playing PS1 games. It includes PS1's 2MB RAM. Meanwhile, PS1 games' GPU duties are performed by the PS2's graphics synthesizer in hardware (since it is a hardware successor - it is essentially eight PS1 GPUs glued together).
Here's where things get tricky. The slim PS2, like the fat PS2, has many different motherboard revisions - even under the same serial number. Slim PS2's I/O MIPS chip can still comprise the entirety of PS1's R3000A, sometimes with and without PS1's RAM, and IDE traces (30-second soldering can install an IDE HDD!).
But, even if the R3000A chip is included in a slim PS2, it is unused for PS1 games. It's only for I/O processing peripherals.
To run PS1 games, slim PS2 performs PS1's CPU, GTE (Geometry Transfer Engine), MDEC (Motion Decoder) and SPU through emulation on the PS2's CPU (Emotion Engine) instead. Hence PS1 games' generally higher frame-rates, incompatibility with PS1 and PS2 games which used the R3000A for I/O sound processing (or in Jak X's case, network data on PS1's RAM), and missing music and reverb due to the lack of PS1 SPU in slim PS2s.
Slim's CPU was overclocked from to 294MHz to 299MHz for this. Sony designed this for easier PS1/PS2 emulation in PS3.
Also: original version of PS3 has PS2 hardware to play its games natively nut was axed to reduce production costs. All PS2 games in PSN are emulated. Among titles you could found "Contra: Shattered Soldier", "Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas" (until infamous 2014 destruction), "Need For Speed: Most Wanted" and many others.
Mega Man X: Latency Collection
The final video on this collection is out! We tested all platforms for the XLC and we tested Virtual Console (Wii U & 3DS) SNES Classic, and more! Please enjoy, it took an intense amount of work:
th-cam.com/video/EvZkty_FQHA/w-d-xo.html
Cool video and very informative! How was the PS2 connected to the TV for these simulations, if you don't mind me asking.
It was, I explained the method in the other video about this. I film at 1200, count the frames between the button and action, and subtract our TVs input lag which we know because of our Leo Bodnar device.
So yea, a tv is connected but no, it doesn’t affect latency.
GigaBoots I should have remembered that. Sorry to make you repeat yourself! Thanks for the reminder.
Question on your testing: did you use the ps4 controller wirelessly and wired on the test? The second gen controllers can apparently use an option that when played wired they have less lag. I haven't tried it yet, but that may help.
Wired mode adds 1.7ms of latency.
It adds!? The whole point was to improve/reduce the latency, but it actually makes it worse!? Ugh.
In order to reduce latency it would need at least 500Hz polling, 1000Hz preferred but it's only 250Hz. Switch also does it. Our new video on the X Legacy Collection talks about it. Coming out in the next day or two.
So the newest collection is actually the worse way to play it in terms of lag...😫😫😫😫😫😫😫😫😫😫😫😫😫😫😫😫😫
Are your numbers including or excluding any latency added by your monitor/TV? Just curious. If it’s included, what kind of display are you using?
Excluded. I wasn’t clear about that in this video but I was in the first, sorry about that.
We’re using a LG B7 with 21.5ms of Input Lag.
Do you plan on testing the SNES Classic and Virtual Console releases?
I also wonder if there are any input differences between the PS2 and PC versions of MMX8.
SNES Classic test will be in our third video. Please stick around to find out.
It's done: th-cam.com/video/EvZkty_FQHA/w-d-xo.html
I'm interested to see how Gamecube Mega Man X Collection and the PC / Xbox One / Switch Mega Man X Legacy Collection compares.
We don’t have the Gamecube version and it’s pricy so we won’t be covering it. The PS2 Collection and Wired SNES results are ready to watch now. th-cam.com/video/F-zTRrolyUg/w-d-xo.html
GigaBoots Wii SD loading could solve that problem
I'm so glad that I'm not the only player who feels the lag. It's kind of sad to realize that there's no way to solve this input lag on PS4 ATM... Capcom please work on this for Megaman fans!!!!
Any information on lag with the Nintendo Switch?
Nice analysis . Would be cool to also check an emulator...
We will in the future. RetroArch looks really promising.
Hopefully the Switch/One video goes up soon, all comparisons i've seen so far have been of the PS4 version but im really curious how the other ones run.
We finally finished all the tests after over a week of work. This info is pretty huge IMO so look forward to it soon. I'm writing it now, hopefully it goes up by Friday!
Thank you for the response, looking forward to the video :D
There we go! The final video is FINALLY done! th-cam.com/video/EvZkty_FQHA/w-d-xo.html
May also be pertinent to check the two PS2 titles against the PC ports for them both. The originals obviously, not the collection.
I haven't played the Megaman X series in almost a decade. And the moment I started playing X2 on this collection, I felt the lag immediately. I thought my remote control or game was broken.
Yea, it's really intensely bad. Meanwhile, most comments are saying it doesn't exist. Fanboys, amirite?
did you take your TV or monitors display lag into consideration? i would like to know the real number with your tvs lag subtracted.
We explain this in the original video but I thought I also noted it here but judging by the comments section I didn’t. The displays input lag is subtracted from all of the numbers depending on where on the screen where measuring the action. The bottom of the screen has more input lag them the top, generally speaking. Some displays are actually upside down in that regard, but ours is normal. If you are curious, the input lag on our display is 21.5 ms in the center region
Is there an update to this vid? - How does non-emulated lag look for playstation? is it in general quite laggy?
Brent the third video is coming out in the next day. Keep an eye out.
It's out now th-cam.com/video/EvZkty_FQHA/w-d-xo.html
List the tv you used to measure the lag, please. There are probably a few variables that go into the lag test including the tv ability to transcode and/or upconvert a digital vs analog signal. If you had one available, an original ps3 that has hardware to play ps2 games would be interesting to include. Also all ps3 systems can play ps1 games.
1. We mentioned this in the last video but forgot to mention it here, the input lag of the TV is subtracted. On average the input lag on our B7 LG OLEG is 21.5ms and at the bottom of the screen it's 25ms. This will be re-clarified in our next video.
2. We've tested Mega Man X1 16 total times for our third video on this topic but sure, we'll add more tests to this. Our final day of testing is tomorrow and then I'm making the script and everything.
3. If you could sub and stick around for this that'd be great. There's some huge bombshells in our next vid.
Please do a video on the megaman legacy collection 1-6!💯😂👀
Were these tests all performed on a HDTV? If so, I’m pretty sure the display itself would add 1 or 2 frames of lag, even in game mode.
I said this in the last video but maybe I forgot to say it again here: We subtract the entirety of the displays input lag. We measure it based on a device called a Leo Bodnar Tester. The display's lag literally accounts for none of these figures.
Did you test the PS4 version with Bluetooth settings or USB settings? Using USB settings on the PS4 pro reduces lag significantly.
Wow, you actually couldn’t be farther from the truth. The usb polling speed is 4ms, wireless is 2.4ms.
GigaBoots really? What is even the point of that feature on the pro then? Did you have the controller settings set to USB?
I assume the reason for the feature is to reduce interference. Don't worry though, the PS4 isn't alone in this, the switch does the same thing. Wired is more latent than wireless. Check it out: th-cam.com/video/EvZkty_FQHA/w-d-xo.html
Does the ps4 x collection share the same input lag as the pc and switch versions?
If you could do a switch input lag test it would help a ton =D
That will be in our 3rd video. Subscribe and stick around.
So I have a question: what about a wired controller directly into the PS4? Would that matter at all or would it do nothing to decrease the input latency by any decent amount?
Ballade90 That would increase input lag.
What tv were you guys using, because I dont feel very much lag on my X collection.
All of the display’s input lag is subtracted from the figures so it is not taking it into account. If you’re curious though we are using an OLED with 21.5 ms.
GigaBoots does turning off filters, wallpaper and changing aspect ratio make any difference with the lag?
Sorry, didn't notice your question. No. None of that changes anything.
I realize that on a Nintendo Switch, there is little to no lag when you use it in handheld mode or when you use the joycons as one controller with the grip. It is even better when you play the japanese versions of x1 and x2. Little to no lag with the others. However, I notice the lag when using any other bluetooth controller (8bitdo and off brand pro controllers). Not sure about the pro controller itself, but im guessing it has lag also as others report lag. I have to ask if switch owners are using any other controller aside from the joycons?
We have a video up now about the Switch version and all the others and we tested them all with various controllers: th-cam.com/video/EvZkty_FQHA/w-d-xo.html
The 4th generation (SNES) X games (X1 - X3) are alright but I like 5th generation (PS1, Sega Saturn) and 6th generation (PS2) X games (X4 - X6, X7 - X8) more. Even X6 and X7!
Hey! thank you for the video! I have bought both X collections on Steam. Do you know if there is any input lag on the PC ? I'm on an older generation I7 and I'm thinking of playing X 1, 2 and 3 again, but I'm not sure if I should play it on my PC or SNES.
I personally cant stand 100ms+ imput lag, but maybe if I play on a Gaming-Monitor, the lag wont be as bad as on a modern TV.
We’re testing the PC version right now. It will be covered in our third video. Our second video is up and it covers all the games in the collection: th-cam.com/video/F-zTRrolyUg/w-d-xo.html
Thanks, Gigabois. I'll be waiting for this info as well, since PC is the target of my potential purchase. No way I'm paying full price for a product if it turns out to be dog shit, and I'm not as tolerant for something as basic as emulation to get botched if the product ends up being a piss-poor effort to cash and dash.
xzander Hey buddy Dan literally stated in the first video to buy the game anyway.
Awesome, your hard work is appreciated !
+FromBeyondTheGrave1
Aw you're so cute.
1. I never said not buy it. I said "not paying full price for it".
2. Dan doesn't give me money (and neither do you) so I will spend it in whatever damn way I want. Tough titties but that's real life for us.
Is this even possible to fix? I already own both collections on ps4, and it's a real shame that they have heavy input lag
How about on pc emulator for funsies? I'm curious if the input lag is identical to the native system or worse.
Xenon that will be its own video we’re going to do down the line.
I purchased the game on steam as a means to conveniently practice some runs on my pc when I'm not up to hooking up my ps1 or snes to speed run the games.
I set up all the options for what I assume would offer "best performance" then started mmx and immediately noticed the input lag as soon I held right and shot a few lemons. I quit game, tried the others and was appalled by the delay in all the titles, especially x3, while x4 didn't seem too bad but still very noticable.
Unfortunately I may be out of a wasted 20$ unless I can somehow get a refund. I honestly feel ripped off, if no go on a refund, my fingers are crossed for an update to address this poor performance. What a shame too, I was actually really excited for this :(
and this is killer for an X game. The bosses Have been buggy when im trying to quickly wall jump. Overall its a bit horrible right now.
Did you cover Street Fighter? Also please don't take too many days off to make it happen. Thanks for all your work.
We've never done Street Fighter because Noodalls on Twitter has a good track record when it comes to actually testing fighting games. Turns out that SF 30th Anniversary Collection has a really good input lag score on 3rd Strike. Only a few ms more latent than originally IIRC.
Just like with this collection though, every game is all over the place not the least of which because they were originally fairly divergent.
PS4 input lag sounds a lot higher than what I'm seeing on PC MMXLC, which seems below the SNESC. Assuming of course you're not running one of the potatoes that actually exacerbates the issues; PC performance kinda spikes depending on what rig you've got. Mine's beefy and it's pretty close to Higan performance imo.
Turns out the PS4 version is the worst. Our final video confirms this: th-cam.com/video/EvZkty_FQHA/w-d-xo.html
is there any fix for this yet? I read in some forums that disabling the wallpaper in the game cold make the trick, but I still have input lag...how the hell am I supposed to play a game that requires precision and exact timing with this damn input lag?
Our final video on this is coming out soon. There is no fix but that video has some REALLY interesting info on which platform to play it on and how crazy better it can get.
I know you said you're sensitive to input lag, but I want to stress for anyone on the fence about buying the game that the lag barely affected my experience with the games and getting the Platinum. I don't think the input lag is enough to refuse to buy the games over, especially Legacy Collection 1.
I really want Capcom to make a new X game and I think $20 is a fair price to ask for X1, X2, X3, and X4, regardless of the added lag.
Can't agree at all. The SNES games feel nearly unplayable to me on PS4. The second collection fairs better but it's disappointing that Capcom doesn't care about the quality of these ports and people are dismissing the problems they the collections have.
WaddleDee105 yes it is troubling that Capcom couldn't have put 100% attention and love into this release. Although, I honestly can't tell the difference because I haven't played an original on a snes in like 15 years. If I were to have recently played the x series on a Snes and crt, and then play the mmxlc on a modern console, I guarantee you I would feel it as well.
It's not a big deal to most of us because we don't have a point of reference.
As someone who casually speedruns the SNES games on original hardware, I gotta say the lag is pretty trivial. It is barely noticeable and the game plays pretty close to how it did back then. A lot of people just want to find reason to complain like this or lag (which is pretty ridiculous, because the game lagged in the SNES in certain areas and the emulation was set to imitate it), but the truth is that the collection is pretty good and worth it.
Davis1228 are you implying the video is confirmation bias? If so, that’s absurd.
Alex Morales Carballo You’re ridiculous. This video is me analyzing input lag. It’s objective measurement of a metric of the game’s performance. If people don’t think Input Lag is legitimately important then why do these X input lag videos have thousands of views?
I'm curious about the PC ports of the X games compared to the collection.
The original PC Ports or the PC version of the X Legacy Collection?
GigaBoots The original PC ports. Although, a comparison between the PC ports and the PC version of the collection would be interesting too.
Good lord that'd be hard/expensive/really hard.
Also, ew, midi MMx1 soundtrack. :|
GigaBoots Yeah, I agree. Probably not worth it.
I wish I could do it but after justifying the XB1 to test that version of the X Legacy Collection and other games we're doing in the future, I really really really can't justify buying X1 on PC. I could probably find a download on though. IDK.
You could've also compare the Wii, Wii U and New 3DS Virtual Console as well as the GameCube version of the old collection and the Xbox One, Switch and PC (Steam) version of X1's input lag too.
If you are planning to do X4 input lag aswell, then also compare it to the 2006 collection, PS1 Classics version on PS3, PSVita and PSP, the PC CD-ROM version and Sega Saturn.
You do realize these videos take 40+ hours to make, right?
But yea, our final video will cover every platforn that X Legacy Coll. is on as well as 3DS and Wii U versions of X1. Its a huge undertaking.
Yes I know just letting you know.
The final video is done. Please enjoy: th-cam.com/video/EvZkty_FQHA/w-d-xo.html
When it comes to the player's objective results of the tests, focus only on the number of frames lost from latency, not the milliseconds and the percents.
If you're going to base the purchase of a game based on sheer numbers which may represent your reaction time and extreme hypersensitivity to milliseconds of image processing, you should be selling your mind and body to the military.
Aqua Jet This is a pretty common misconception. The exact part of a frame time that Input is received is a huge part of how quickly it can impact the game. Some times, games are even inconsistent about whether on how long it takes to affect the game even when the input time relative to frame-time is identical every time.
Noodals charts show these sorts of things over on twitter. They are really obtuse though so it’s okay if you can’t figure them out.
No wonder I didn't feel it as much... The X Collection was how I was already used to playing the games. I personally don't mind it at all, but I'm well aware that that doesn't mean that it isn't a problem.
Still playable.
So is Killzone 2 and Gundam Crossfire.
"Playable" yeah but wtf why these input lag :/ LCD already killed my playability of Super Meat Boy...
thus, knowing there IS more input lag, don't want to play it anymore :/
Playable is not enjoyable, I think I prefer the Wii U Virtual console versions and of course the originals on SNES. But I only have X3 Super Famicom cartridge.
diegomireles your opinion.
Did this also apply to the gamecube version of the X collection?
I don't have it to test. It will definitely be better and most likely worse. It costs way too much for us to get to test.
I'd like a test on the Switch. I've noticed a definite difference in input lag on X1 from doing a run on PC.
We’re doing that in our next video. Stick around!
Can we get a side by side comparison at full speed, please? X1 SNES on the left, X1 PS4 on the right, and sync up the button presses that way we can actually SEE the latency?
I’m not really interested in this but people keep asking for it. Why is that? What’s wrong with numbers? Also, you can see our test in the beginning of the vid.
GigaBoots I think it's because we're more visual. It's hard for us normal gamers (who don't really care about 30 or 60 fps so long as the game is fun) to visualize what an 80ms delay looks like.
This is it really. The numbers don't add up to much if you can't show everyone what they actually do to the game.
I guess in the future we can do something like this, but I think playing it back at real time speeds will have people understate the impact on the game feel. For example, Killzone 2 which got lambasted for how "heavy" and "unresponsive" it felt was only slightly more than 1/5 of a second input lag. In realtime that doesn't look like much at all but it made the game really awful compared to Call of Duty: MW and people noted it for such. It's reviews suffered for that reason, and they had to reduce input lag on the next game.
Look, I am a big fan of this games, I have basically played them all several times, and consider myself an expert, but in this collection, is like i was a newbie, there are stuff I was used to do that I suddenly became really bad at, i just feel like the controls doesn’t respond the way I use to, and is really baad... it really messes up the experience of gaming, we really need a patch...
Input lag is really important and the journalistic side of this industry should cover it. It's too bad that they're nowhere near interested in anything technical.
Eh not a big deal to me. I would believe X4 on PS3 (a PS1 Classic) as well as X8 on PS3 (you can get as a PS2 Classic from the JPN Store) would be exactly the same.
I would like to know how the pc version holds up with a SNES controller plugged in
Well, we didn't have a SNES controller plugged in (we'll be testing solutions for that in the future) but we did thoroughly test PC in the final video in this series: th-cam.com/video/EvZkty_FQHA/w-d-xo.html
I'm feeling the lag. Is there anything I can do to help it? Can it be patched by Sony or Capcom?
In theory but there's no historical precedence for Capcom caring enough to do it, unfortunately.
Even with this input lag, I never had latency issues messing me up while getting two Platinums. Its nowhere near as bad as Mega Man Anniversary Collection.
Your ability to get a platinum is irrelevant. I triple platinum’d Mighty No. 9 and that game has horrible framerate, stability, and design problems.
Also, I’ll check that out to see if you’re right!
GigaBoots, this was mostly a message to peeps who were turned off by the numbers and saying “blargh ruined” in the comment section.
Regarding MMAC, it really had noticeable lag even on CRT, with MM1-6 inheriting it from Rockman Complete Works rereleases (RM2 had as much lag on my Vita). Dunno why that carried over to MM7 and 8 tho.
Now compare input lag to Wii Wii u and 3ds virtual console versions
BiggMatt183 we recorded those last night. We’ll be talking about it in our third video. Stick around for it.
rRegarding the lag I just now realized what you mean cause when playing more of the games I noticed that something is off cause when testing the buttons by itself it is not that noticable but when put in an intense situation o boy this is where the frames start to bite you.
From my ecperience x1-3 were the worst in that case.
x4-6 not as bad but still there
x7-8 were the smoothest when comes to control input
Still enjoy the collection.
I hope a patch because when i play X Challenge in hard the game crash :[
Woah! Which platform and which collection? 1 or 2?
GigaBoots both
plataform: PC
I've heard that you can fix the lag issues by changing the game's screen settings (ie: the lag is only that bad on the default settings). Can anyone confirm this?
This is not the case. @Noodals is the leading input latency tester in the world and confirmed it doesn't affect anything at all.
This is not the case . I am playing on switch handheld mode ,it is better but not much .
or you are the actual troll that cant identified the delay . Most of people i met agree with it and even all of my friend
Le Quan we’ve already tested it. We’ll talk about all the ways to play it too. This third video is ridiculously huge in scope.
We finished our tests on the Switch and everything else: th-cam.com/video/EvZkty_FQHA/w-d-xo.html
There are people that don't care about input lag?
How about the PC and Switch version? I found X7 to actually be easier on PC than on PS2.
Our video will go in-depth and cover every platform for XLC including PC.
The final video is out. We discovered some amazing stuff about the PC & switch versions: th-cam.com/video/EvZkty_FQHA/w-d-xo.html
Pretty sure Capcom will come with a update patch.
I sincerely hope you're right but I doubt it.
Did anyone else find the games a little more difficult than the originals?
I mean, Input Latency literally makes things require tighter responses from the player because they no have almost 6 fewer frames to react to everything.
Would the latency change on PS5?
I can tell you from using the ps5 that it has less latency at all times than the PS4 so I would likewise expect a mild reduction here. This wasn’t tested but i can feel an 8ms difference and I’m certain of it. Online analysis of the Dualsense on PC reflects my findings.
Ah so there is imput lag. I knew X8 on the PS4 felt a bit off.
And yet it was the one that fared the best on the whole collection!
What about the switch version
We're gonna have all the platforms in our upcoming video. It's an intense undertaking so please stick around (subscribe) and be patient.
How much is x1 input lag on snes mini?
I’m borrowing a SNES Mini from my brother. We’ll cover it in our 3rd video. Please stick around.
That video is done now. The SNES CLassic is covered in it: th-cam.com/video/EvZkty_FQHA/w-d-xo.html
kingdom hearts 1.5 + 2.5 and 2.8 input leg test would be great
That would be really neat. Maybe we'll get around to it sometime soon! For now, we have a 3rd video in this series that covers literally everything: th-cam.com/video/EvZkty_FQHA/w-d-xo.html
Nintendo Switch will be significantly faster. Ps4 is for casuals, Switch is made for competitive scene games
You’ll have to check out our upcoming video to know for sure!
It's ready. Check out how well the switch did: th-cam.com/video/EvZkty_FQHA/w-d-xo.html
Do a comparison with the switch version. I hear it's better.
We did! It's available to watch now. Please enjoy! th-cam.com/video/EvZkty_FQHA/w-d-xo.html
sneeeeessss👌🎉🏆
i think the psp game has the best one.. i dunno it feels very smooth to when i press and he jumps. the one i hate most is the original snes one as much as i like the game the input is just... off? delayed. i get better playtroughs on the emulated version.
We'll be testing Maverick Hunter X some day. For now, here's our even more comprehensive test of this game: th-cam.com/video/EvZkty_FQHA/w-d-xo.html
What about the PC version?
We’ll be testing that out and showing it in our 3rd video about this. There are a lot of tests to do. We’re hard at work on it
GigaBoots looking forward to it
IT's done now. Please enjoy it: th-cam.com/video/EvZkty_FQHA/w-d-xo.html
It's a bit harder to test and compare, but does the X Challenges have as much input latency?
We’re looking into it and you’re right. It’s so fucking hard to test.
Soooo sluggish....
Doesn't seem to be pretty. I do hope it's fixable. I care most about X1-X4 and it seems to be the worst in those games sadly.
I play on the Xbox One X with a Hori wired fight commander controller. It definitely feels more responsive than the Switch version. Even playing on the Xbox One X though, nothing beats the original SNES and PSX hardware.
I miss the dislike function….
You can still hit it. Don’t worry, I’ll see it and be devastated that you disliked my video that analyzes input latency????
@@GigaBoots
Oh, i think i confounded your video, i had multiple taps open, my bad. I recognized it when i saw your name after you answered my comment.
Anyway, i have a question: is it normal hat the figure in megaman 1 and 2 need half a second to walk after i press right/left?
Aun espero un parche para jugar sin lag
Nothing yet.
I ran through X and X4 easily. I've played X4 since it's release and thought it felt pretty great
I played it I dont see what's the problem and I like it so sorry but I am glad that I dont have to spend hundreds of dollars for the Super Nintendo version or PS2 version. I know that capcom is a money mad company but it's better then spending hundreds of dollars I look up the Super Nintendo version in Amazon for the Mega man X1-X3 the X1 is around $330😱🤯 something X2 $109😱 I believe so and the X3 $206😱 you people are out of your minds and the Gamecube version for the Mega man X collection is $100 😱 but if I go to Estarland I could get it for $36.88 so ya very cheap for the X1 game
Reala Lover holy crap. That's a lot of money.
MrAmazing79 indeed I almost fell of my chair lol you would think that video games would not cost that much but hay people love money to much sad though. But we got the Mega man x Legacy Collection so I am happy 😊
They cost that much because they're rare and desirable, idiot. Back then they didn't release games digitally or produce millions of copies, the gaming medium was smaller and less copies were produced, making them rare decades later as more people get into video games but the amount of copies floating around remain the same.
There are other alternatives, too. You can emulate the first three games and probably get decently less input delay than these versions, or you can buy them on the Virtual Console on Wii U if you own one. I don't know how they stack up but if memory serves the delay on Wii U was not as bad as this collection. By the way the X Collection from last gen is only expensive on Gamecube, the PS2 version is cheap as dirt.
Man of Truth well they can stay rare forever for collectors all the days of its life. But me nope I am glad I dont have to spend hundreds of dollars so I thank capcom for that even though there money mad company plus things dont last forever so to me they have no value.
People with souls and spirit have value but objects do not. But if collector what's these game go for it. Just dont get mad if company decides
To re-release a game in this generation console. Finally the younger people get to play Mega Man X games all in one With out spending hundreds of dollars.
Besides I think lag is funny people rage like no tomorrow and they get mad all because of a lag or some glitchy stuff that's in the game then talks about input latency like this was not here or there or anywhere this is not the Original game. That's because it's called the X Legacy collection they make you think that it is and then the rage comes out I see lag here and there lag lag lagging! See funny 😂. Anyway I like the X Legacy collection great game still dont see any lag that you people cry about lag lag laggy!😱
You're sensitive to input lag, I'm sensitive to your poor MMX skills! How do you think I feel? Love you guys, keep it up. 👍
Snes the best
Not buying the collection
It's not his fault Capcom didn't give a single shit when they ported these games.
+Davis1228
So he has to eat shit even if he doesn't want to in order to ensure somewhere, sometime, the game developer MIGHT feel kind enough to give this person something edible when they feel like it?
Yeah, no. It's not his or anyone's fault if there isn't an mmx9 ever. Go fucking kick rocks, the internet is just too much for you.
Fair initiative. Though honestly I doubt it would be too much of a noticeable hindrance unless you're speed running or something. And as others have said it takes purchase and proof that there is a fan base that wants another X game or more Mega Man games. I'm tired of buying and seeing the classic series get pushed forward, especially with the 8-bit era being pushed like a race horse devoid of it's fluids, but Legacy Collection proved there was a market for it; proved that people wanted it. Thus Mega Man 11 was green lit.
As for X... well, that has yet to be seen. It's up in the air. They have done a terrible job with it and clearly did not take the care that they did with the classic Legacy Collection. However, I will still be purchasing it. Because they need proof. Believe it or not, they don't do this stuff for the fans. They do it for business. Fans are the after thought. With that being said I urge you to reconsider that notion even if you're not going to play it or hate it. Give them crap for it, that's for sure via honest reviewing so they know what's up. Get it while it's on sale or something. Or don't. Just putting that all out there.
What a pussy.
There should be a way to do both.
Collection is completely playable and unless u play on an snes plugged into a crt you won't notice. Don't listen to this nonsense lol some of these people need to get outta the house more often lol
Playable is a very high bar. Do you buy every game that’s playable?
GigaBoots it's an easy, 40 dollar way to play these games. Not everyone cares about hooking up a massive crt in their house to play this game. You have made 2 whole videos bitching about lag. Watch my stream I just did beating this game with no problems at all. You are turning away people from this game before they even try it.
I told people i bought it to support Capcom at the end of the first video. What is your deal?
GigaBoots look how many people have commented saying they aren't buying it based on your videos. Don't bitch when they stop making mega man games again cuz you have contributed to it. The lag in this game is fractions of a second and undetectable by most human beings and you are two videos in like its the end of the world lol what's your "deal" ?
You're ridiculous. Demanding a better product while making objective scientific measurements of how bad this collection is somehow me being some sort of bully in your eyes. Get outta here with this weak nonsense. Expect better from companies and you will get better.