As soon as you posted this deck build I had to watch it even though I was at work. As soon as I came home I immediatly went to MTGOtraders and payed less than 10$ for this deck the mana cost more than the entire deck of spells cost me. I havn't stoped playing this on MTGO. I'm about 6 for 2 so far. I love it. Thank you sir.
Whisper Agent has been my favorite combat trick. I've been playing a more midrange build with Dream Eaters but I prefer Agent to Notion Rain (at least online where aggro is everywhere and I don't want to be bleeding 2)
Thank you so much for this!!! I have always loved Dimir the best out of all color combos since 2010 and this set had me crying with joy. I'm also a scrub however. I built a Dimir Surveil deck after buying a 36 pack box and it kinda flopped a bit even though it felt like it should be powerful. I did bin the enhanced surveillance before I saw this, haha. They were terrible! The Operatives and Dazzling Lights are a revelation. With your help, I can finally grow my bugs and spirits up as strong as I had imagined them.
This is the second time I had an idea for a deck and you produce a video within a day or two :) Must mean I am getting a modicum of MtG sense lol Thanks for keeping the budget decks coming a lot of us are not in the position to be throwing money around. Take care!
Thank you for this Dev! I was brewing a very similar build, but dazzling lights was the tricksy kind of stuff I was looking for! Keep up the great work!! On to 150k Subs!!! You will do it!
This deck (well 90%, a couple of minor substitutions) has been doing great for me on Arena, seems very strong, the +1/+1 counter dudes get out of hand REALLY quickly, I've had a few games vs mono G where they have dropped a Carnage Tyrant with ramp and my beasties are still bigger! Thanks very much Dev! Looks like I will have to examine your Patreon scheme, I asked for budget decks to help us Arena folks , and you delivered. Stay safe in the storm Bro!(hope it's not a Thousand year storm!)
My favorite deck from the new set! I've been crushing turn 5/6 kills (w/Doom Whisperer) in Arena with it! I appreciate you my brother, stay safe in the storm.
Love the deck dev! Definitely building a version of this. Already got my playset of lazav and I'm interested in a version with thief of sanity. Also can't wait to get the wildcards for this on MTGA as I juststarted back playing last night since the open beta. Be safe dev and can't wait for your next video
I was surprised that blue got the largest creature for 1 mana. They always give blue the best cards. 1 mana for a 2/2 blocker with upsides!!!! Ridiculous. Good Deck Dev from the Place. Love these videos. I was gunna try and build these for cheaper but it's too time consuming and many TH-cam Watchers don't use eBay so I just let TCG Player do it's thing. I'm happy you have sponsors. Keep up the great work dude.
What I really like about the surveil payoff cards is that the surveil mechanic allows you to chain surveil mechanics together. With most other mechanic payoff cards, like Murmuring Mystic, the payoff for using the mechanic happens incidentally. But surveil allows you to play surveil cards every turn, which lets cards like Dimir Spybug to grow consistently.
Been waiting on a deck tech all day lol. Thanks fella. Looks good I am sure the stream will love it. The last few decks have been great. This looks good too.
I wasn't too much a Dimir playr, but budget Surveil is something I'm working on as well. I included Whispering Snitch in mine (kinda Ozhov card, which is my favorite guild). Good luck with the storm Dev! Be careful and take care above anything else!
Nightveil Sprites are amazing I'd go 3-4, the attack trigger allows an extra counter before combat damage. Cards to consider for mainboard: Vicious Rumours, Unmoored Ego, Sinister Sabotage, Devious Cover up, Citywatch Spinx/Watcher in the Mist, Disinformation Campaign, Connive/Concoct, Whisper Agent. I've played a few decks like this already and they are basically Dimir Aggro/Control. Considerations for mill/reanimation strategy: Psychic Corrosion, Patient Rebuilding aforementioned Connive/Concoct :P
So, I'm revisiting this deck today because rather than grapple with the constant FOMO of various formats, my best friend and I have decided to play Pre-War Ravnica as its own format. So, sorry for not commenting back in the day when I first enjoyed this deck. Your brewing is much appreciated.
I just realized that you can activate Lazav (targeting a spybug or phantasm) in response to his ETB so that you get one "whenever you surveil" trigger as soon as he enters the battlefield
Ok, so this was sort of the deck i was hoping for when i picked the 'Dimir guild' as my pre-release guild … i may well skip a few days of lunch (or grab dinner at my parents) to pick up this deck, besides the lands obviously, but as a budget player i am not to scared to use Guildgates or regular tapped lands, heck even Evolving wilds is legal. Looksies pretty dang good ! Also, stay safe, hope you have some preps for the storm (lights out kit or something)
Tempo holds a special place in my heart 💙🖤 I've also been having a bunch of fun with this type of deck in Arena. Definitely building it in real life now.
I went for more of a control shell featuring Sinister Sabotage, Unexplained Disappearance and all of the surveil payoff creatures (spybug, phantasm, whisper snitch) with Dream Eater sort of taking the place of Torrential Gearhulk as a finisher. I had to dip into control staples (essence scatter and negate) to get consistency, but it meant some grindy matches. This looks a lot faster!
Just ran some games with this deck idea. Every opponent gave up in frustration. A few thoughts: I added Metamorphic Alteration, primarily so my Phantasm could get some +1's then turn into a nasty critter on my opponent's side. Also good to neuter one of their creatures.The one game that stalled out had graveyard recursion to bring back skeletons to chump block my 8/8+ phantasms. I'm thinking of adding Forbearer's Blade for the trample, everything else is gravy.
DEV, I reeeeeally need a non budget version of this deck. Please show us how surveil can break into the meta. I'm begging you! This is the mechanic I am most excited about.
Whisper agent is honestly my favourite card in the deck I've built which is super similar, I feel like it just brings the whole deck together on turn 3 if i don't need to counter anything in my opponents turn just drop him on the end step and begin the pressure building!
built this deck today for about $50. Already had most of the mana base. Adding 4x Mission Briefing as my upgrade. I'll be trying this about a week from Sunday in a Standard Showdown
So I tried out this deck. Holy crap it's fun! And it feels so good to draw exactly what I need when I need it. Surveil is so good in it's own. In my opinion this deck is good without the Phantasm and spybug, but with them it's just amazing. Spybug is a complete a-hole, Im in love.
I like enhanced surveillance. Not just for 2 additional when you surveil. But you can crack it and put your graveyard back into your deck. I have it as a 2 of in my deck
Me and a friend managed to get a few play sets of the commons and uncommon of the surveil cards for free at our lgs. We went through their pile of junk cards players leave behind and man there were tons of good cards left behind and we just snagged them. Creeping chill were really hard to find though. We only picked up 2 from prerelease and 2 from drafts and that was it.
Would Vraska's Contempt go in this deck, even tho it doesn't surveil? As a nonbudget option? Or is the double black and lack of synergy not worth it? Same for cards like Cast Down
Dive down?(Blur blossoming defense) This is a great card because you do sometimes through all of you eggs in one basket boosting one creature, and one removal spell destroys your 6:6 or higher
Gruesome Menagerie could also be a consideration in the sideboard, able to bring back a phantasm, spy bug and a blood op against control. Junk rare to boot.
I personally enjoy mucking up the ground with dimir informant. The surveil two is nice, plus it gives you time to stabilize. Doom Whisperer has won me several losing games against izzet control. As soon as it pops out go to town on surveil for spybug and phantasm and swing for game. I personally feel 4 notion rains is too many, it feels bad hitting it late game if you miss a surveil and don't have the life to spare
Enhanced surveillance works great in my opinion... due to the fact if you surveil 1 its actually 3 to get cards you need into your hand because i also play disinformation campaign which works great to pick up that 1 mana just to surveil it back into your hand. it also helps you against mill decks. Burnt through all your good surveil cards just exile enhanced surveillance and start your library over and build your spybugs and thought phantasms back up they probaly wont be able to get rid of them twice.
I play enhance surveillance and etrata so i can mill my whole deck for her after every trigger. Basically free removal. If she dies i copy wit lazav. The thing about enhanced surveillance is you almost always surveil into more surveil cards even if the count is lower.
When a card says "Surveil 2", does that mean we get to put 2 counters on Thoughtbound Phantasm or Dimir Spybug? Or, does it count as a single Surveil trigger, but with 2 cards (and only 1 counter)?
Ran something similar, I did end up playing Riverwise Auger to put creeping chill's back on top of the library, as well as search for azcanta and Doom whisperer. Did you ever test with Auger by chance? I saw your tweet about Auger with Lich and Tatiovya, was just curious if it was on your mind as you were building this deck.
I'm watching this at 10am at work, and I can't wait to go home and try this out now. Cool deck stuffed with pretty girls in black (and yes, I'm so putting an informant or two in there!), and I do have a single watery grave as a good start. Thanks for a great decktech, and we hope you'll stay safe and that the hurricane won't cause any damage to your area. If it does let us know and I'm sure we'll be delighted to help out! Would House Guildmage be a decent card to include in here? She functions as a mana sink and can Surveil 2 for 3 mana. Dream Eater also looks really nice with a Surveil 4, but costs 1 mana more than even the Doom Whisperer. I have a copy (together with a copy of the Doom Whisperer) but unlike the Whisperer, I'm not sure if I should include it or not.
Would it be a good idea to include 2 or even 3 copies of Favorable Winds? Your main source of offensive comes from flyers plus it would be a decent move to make in case you get a turn where you're not able to surveil.
I would out the Narcomoeba's for Watcher in the Mist's. Watcher has the Surveil on ETB and is my finisher. Maybe go with 2 of each, but definitely not a full play set of Narco
I've been fiddling with this deck a bunch lately and I actually ended up cutting Narcomeoba and Creeping Chill entirely. Yeah, it's sweet when you mill them, but since none of our cards Surveil more than 2 we mostly end up having to cast Narco and CC from our hand and they are just *terrible* when cast that way. Just so, so bad. The deck's consistency improved greatly when I took these two cards out. Meanwhile, Whisper Agent is amazing. Seriously, I didn't expect to like it was much as I did but I figured I'd give it a try and it radically over performed. It's basically our version of Rogue Refiner, and I don't think that's an unreasonable comparison. Surveil 1 is about half the value of drawing a card, but we get Flash to improve the value of WA itself. Plus all our Surveil triggers are easily worth the value of 2 Energy. And a 3/2 body on its own can be quite a clock, or we can trade against aggro.
Great budget deck I was thinking about building something similar but i am not sure it would be consistent enough What about a dimir discard - flyers? We have lots of good dimir fliers and we can pump them with f.winds. Then we have lot of good discard and the spirit payoff ( wich flies!) Anf then some bounce spells to make discard their biggest threats
I think that has some merit. I have seen potential for dimir fliers. Not sure if they completely mesh. You lose surveil for including more fliers. I will note. Swinging with Nightveil-Sprite on turn 3, lets you bounce your campaign right after you've played it. The deck I am running. Is Enchanced Survallance , with 3 lavaz, 3 etetra with some control. I can hyper thin to my board wipes or counters. And the plan is to just play lazav or etetra, or (I have 2 predators and a couple thoughtbound phantasms). When your top deck is always etetra, gameplan is strong.
Vs counter burn, I remember searching for my Sister-Sabotage. Surveil 12, top deck it. Then I did it again the next turn. Some part of me at the moment really wants to run the odd 70-80 card deck. So that I have more versatile answers, and the bigger deck bothers surveil 12 like not at all. The only problem is the starting hands will be more variable.
Need help on my first dimir paper build. I plan on going to my 2nd fnm and wanted advice on my deck. What to take out and put in. I have a play set of disinformation campaign and narcomoeba I also wanted to put 2 bloodlink operative in thanks in advance! 1x doom whisperer 2x nightveil predator 3x thief of sanity 2x nightveil sprite 2x lazav the multifarious 2x whispering snitch 4x dimir spybugs 4x thoughtbound phantasm 1x price of fame 2x creeping chill 1x murder 3x sinister sabotage 3x notion rain 3x discovery dispersal 2x unexplained disappearance 2x thought erasure 1x dead weight
I feel like if you took out a rain and a chill and replaced them with at least two lands (swamps specifically) it would be a little more consistent. I say that cause I recently played with this deck and the land draw was not consistent. Also, you don't really want to draw the chills too much and/or in your opening hand too much because you would rather dump it in the yard from surveilling. That's just me though.
I'm slightly confused as to why Dream Eater wasn't mentioned at all. Surveil 4, pump your bugs/spirit dude, bounce their best dude with a 4/3 flying flash body seems juicy delicious in a deck like this. Be safe down there, my dude. I'm sending good vibes your way.
What do you mean? With all the decks he's done? OR, a spread sheet that shows how these scores are achieved? If it's the latter you are after, these scores are basically a 'Wet Thumb' based upon testing and grading cards individually in regards to how strong they are in the meta (Mainly the 'Power' score ~ which is also sort of a 'wet thumb' method). The value of the scoring overall is that you 'Wet Thumb' the deck on various categories important for a deck in a certain meta, to achieve *more of* an objective view, as opposed to just giving it one wet thumb score based upon the whole (ps. roughly speaking: 65+ is A-tier, 60~65 B-tier, 55~60 C-tier; though do note that the strength of a deck is ultimately determined by the (local) meta it is played in). Then when it comes to all the decks done so far, you have to be aware that you can not really compare decks this way, simply because the scores are based upon the meta the deck was in when it was tested and scored. A score of say 61 of a rotation proof Ixalan based deck, in the pre-Ravnica meta, may not hold true in today's meta. The end score mostly says something about that score compared to the scoring in general, basically gives an indication about the Tier it should probably fall into, with 'again' the notion that the true strength of the deck is ultimately determined by the (local) meta it is played in (and i guess the pilot can make a difference too, depending on the complexity of the game plan). Hope this answers your question, or at least tells you how to interpret the powerscore; if you want Dev to explain it, you should go through his archives and find the video in which he explains the ranking. Probably named something like 'how i rank desk' or 'how i get to the rankings' or 'how i score decks' … seeing most of the videos are named after the deck they feature, i'm fairly sure that when you go through the list the name you are looking for will seem obvious to you when you read it ;)
Man I really wish lands weren't so expensive. It really limits budget players when we're forced to spend a ton on a mana base or just play a strictly worse version of our deck.
The thing is the shocklands aren't that much now. They're way cheaper now and we'll worth it since you can move them to modern. Cards like vraskas contempt are expensive and will never see play outside of standard.
I personally think the current meta is actually great for budget players, as we have both the Guildgates and the Tapped Duals (they are in the Toolkits and all cards in there are standard legal), plus even Evolving wilds is legal to play (from Rivals), so we can have pretty dang good mana for a budget deck (12 pieces of potential fixing), given of course these types of cards lend themselves more for a slower deck ... But even decks like these that prefer untapped lands, if you go for say a max of 6 dual lands, there won't be that many occasions where you can not find a turn to play one tapped (if you have to), be it on turn one or on turn 3 or 4, while they then still provide the flexibility of dual lands where it concerns tapping for specific colors.
Aghore I agree in principle. There are options for budget players if you can stomach occasionally losing to a top8 netdeck. But honestly, there are only so many land cycles that can be printed - they just did checks, now shocks, what's next - fetch lands? GamerSwagThe has a point as well, WOTC is keeping the price of key lands down with reprints. Buying the lands as singles (or opening packs) seems like a fair price to pay if you haven't been playing long enough to have older copies. The game encourages you to collect cards for future use, which, arguably, is why MTG is still around.
My first comment ever on your channel and might I say your the finest my friend. Please do a Naya angels deck if you have the time! I think it's gonna be boss for the first few weeks of standard.
Because the Arena Gods are funny like that, I opened 3 Watery Graves and no other dual lands (despite being a Golgari player). I guess I'll look into this a bit more closely. Here's to hoping you're doing okay!
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I will get the gameplay for this out thursday night ladies and gentlemen.
Do you livestream?
@@michaelmendez3572 I do. Just click my picture.
And I can promise his streams tend to get rather interesting from time to time :P
When we will see gameplay of this deck?
You can check out the video on his channel right now! :D
As soon as you posted this deck build I had to watch it even though I was at work. As soon as I came home I immediatly went to MTGOtraders and payed less than 10$ for this deck the mana cost more than the entire deck of spells cost me. I havn't stoped playing this on MTGO. I'm about 6 for 2 so far. I love it. Thank you sir.
Can say whisper agent is a house. You should definitely try it out. Good luck with the storm Dev.
Whisper Agent has been my favorite combat trick. I've been playing a more midrange build with Dream Eaters but I prefer Agent to Notion Rain (at least online where aggro is everywhere and I don't want to be bleeding 2)
Your videos are great. Watching them feels like just talking to a buddy about Magic. Keep doing what you’re doing!
8:30 This and this are both great! Great job, Dev
Thank you so much for this!!! I have always loved Dimir the best out of all color combos since 2010 and this set had me crying with joy. I'm also a scrub however. I built a Dimir Surveil deck after buying a 36 pack box and it kinda flopped a bit even though it felt like it should be powerful. I did bin the enhanced surveillance before I saw this, haha. They were terrible! The Operatives and Dazzling Lights are a revelation. With your help, I can finally grow my bugs and spirits up as strong as I had imagined them.
This is the second time I had an idea for a deck and you produce a video within a day or two :) Must mean I am getting a modicum of MtG sense lol
Thanks for keeping the budget decks coming a lot of us are not in the position to be throwing money around.
Take care!
Thank you for this Dev! I was brewing a very similar build, but dazzling lights was the tricksy kind of stuff I was looking for! Keep up the great work!! On to 150k Subs!!! You will do it!
This deck (well 90%, a couple of minor substitutions) has been doing great for me on Arena, seems very strong, the +1/+1 counter dudes get out of hand REALLY quickly, I've had a few games vs mono G where they have dropped a Carnage Tyrant with ramp and my beasties are still bigger!
Thanks very much Dev! Looks like I will have to examine your Patreon scheme, I asked for budget decks to help us Arena folks , and you delivered.
Stay safe in the storm Bro!(hope it's not a Thousand year storm!)
My favorite deck from the new set! I've been crushing turn 5/6 kills (w/Doom Whisperer) in Arena with it! I appreciate you my brother, stay safe in the storm.
Love the deck dev! Definitely building a version of this. Already got my playset of lazav and I'm interested in a version with thief of sanity. Also can't wait to get the wildcards for this on MTGA as I juststarted back playing last night since the open beta. Be safe dev and can't wait for your next video
Really enjoyed your $5 budget decks from the last set. Can't wait to see more post rotation $5 budget decks!
that awesome moment when you have most of this deck. including the mana base :D
I was surprised that blue got the largest creature for 1 mana. They always give blue the best cards. 1 mana for a 2/2 blocker with upsides!!!! Ridiculous. Good Deck Dev from the Place. Love these videos. I was gunna try and build these for cheaper but it's too time consuming and many TH-cam Watchers don't use eBay so I just let TCG Player do it's thing. I'm happy you have sponsors. Keep up the great work dude.
What I really like about the surveil payoff cards is that the surveil mechanic allows you to chain surveil mechanics together. With most other mechanic payoff cards, like Murmuring Mystic, the payoff for using the mechanic happens incidentally. But surveil allows you to play surveil cards every turn, which lets cards like Dimir Spybug to grow consistently.
love the budget focus as well as the upgrade options. Keep doin what you're doin Dev!
The tips for playing the deck at the end were awesome
Been waiting on a deck tech all day lol. Thanks fella. Looks good I am sure the stream will love it. The last few decks have been great. This looks good too.
I want to dazzle the lights of a boros mentor deck.
I wasn't too much a Dimir playr, but budget Surveil is something I'm working on as well. I included Whispering Snitch in mine (kinda Ozhov card, which is my favorite guild). Good luck with the storm Dev! Be careful and take care above anything else!
I KNEW Notion Rain was good! Thank you for confirming my suspicions and for showing a good deck to play it in. :)
Another stellar deck tech. The wealth of knowledge really shines in this video.
Oh and Dev, stay safe and dry. Don't get blown away. On the plus side you are a pen and paper kinda guy.
Nightveil Sprites are amazing I'd go 3-4, the attack trigger allows an extra counter before combat damage. Cards to consider for mainboard: Vicious Rumours, Unmoored Ego, Sinister Sabotage, Devious Cover up, Citywatch Spinx/Watcher in the Mist, Disinformation Campaign, Connive/Concoct, Whisper Agent. I've played a few decks like this already and they are basically Dimir Aggro/Control. Considerations for mill/reanimation strategy: Psychic Corrosion, Patient Rebuilding aforementioned Connive/Concoct :P
Wow, cards came in today, sleeving up my Dimir Surveil deck as I watch this. Curious to see how our deck lists differ.
So, I'm revisiting this deck today because rather than grapple with the constant FOMO of various formats, my best friend and I have decided to play Pre-War Ravnica as its own format. So, sorry for not commenting back in the day when I first enjoyed this deck. Your brewing is much appreciated.
Stay safe Dev! Thanks for the deck tech. Batten down the hatches!
I just realized that you can activate Lazav (targeting a spybug or phantasm) in response to his ETB so that you get one "whenever you surveil" trigger as soon as he enters the battlefield
Ok, so this was sort of the deck i was hoping for when i picked the 'Dimir guild' as my pre-release guild … i may well skip a few days of lunch (or grab dinner at my parents) to pick up this deck, besides the lands obviously, but as a budget player i am not to scared to use Guildgates or regular tapped lands, heck even Evolving wilds is legal. Looksies pretty dang good !
Also, stay safe, hope you have some preps for the storm (lights out kit or something)
I built it and liked it! Nice job sir!
Been waiting for this deck!!
Love it. No complaints
Tempo holds a special place in my heart 💙🖤 I've also been having a bunch of fun with this type of deck in Arena. Definitely building it in real life now.
Stay safe Dev with this storm. You’re in my thoughts 💭⚡️🌧. Thanks for this deck tech, plan on taking it to my first ever FNM tomorrow .
Always happy to see a DevTech
I went for more of a control shell featuring Sinister Sabotage, Unexplained Disappearance and all of the surveil payoff creatures (spybug, phantasm, whisper snitch) with Dream Eater sort of taking the place of Torrential Gearhulk as a finisher. I had to dip into control staples (essence scatter and negate) to get consistency, but it meant some grindy matches. This looks a lot faster!
Hopefully you and your house are fine. I love this deck and it will definitely be the first one I build. Prayers from IL.
Just ran some games with this deck idea. Every opponent gave up in frustration. A few thoughts:
I added Metamorphic Alteration, primarily so my Phantasm could get some +1's then turn into a nasty critter on my opponent's side. Also good to neuter one of their creatures.The one game that stalled out had graveyard recursion to bring back skeletons to chump block my 8/8+ phantasms. I'm thinking of adding Forbearer's Blade for the trample, everything else is gravy.
This looks very fun and very affordable. I'm more hyped for trying out standard again than I've been in many years. :D
DEV, I reeeeeally need a non budget version of this deck. Please show us how surveil can break into the meta. I'm begging you! This is the mechanic I am most excited about.
Whisper agent is honestly my favourite card in the deck I've built which is super similar, I feel like it just brings the whole deck together on turn 3 if i don't need to counter anything in my opponents turn just drop him on the end step and begin the pressure building!
built this deck today for about $50. Already had most of the mana base. Adding 4x Mission Briefing as my upgrade. I'll be trying this about a week from Sunday in a Standard Showdown
Awesome vid! Hope things are all good with you,and that the weather Gods were kind to ya 🙏😎
Thanks for the great tech! Be safe my man.
So I tried out this deck. Holy crap it's fun! And it feels so good to draw exactly what I need when I need it. Surveil is so good in it's own. In my opinion this deck is good without the Phantasm and spybug, but with them it's just amazing. Spybug is a complete a-hole, Im in love.
i love your videos, they help so much, keep it up
Be safe. Good vibes from FL
Let's not forget Dispersal will also very frequently bounce a planeswalker if they got one
I like enhanced surveillance. Not just for 2 additional when you surveil. But you can crack it and put your graveyard back into your deck. I have it as a 2 of in my deck
Me and a friend managed to get a few play sets of the commons and uncommon of the surveil cards for free at our lgs. We went through their pile of junk cards players leave behind and man there were tons of good cards left behind and we just snagged them. Creeping chill were really hard to find though. We only picked up 2 from prerelease and 2 from drafts and that was it.
Would Vraska's Contempt go in this deck, even tho it doesn't surveil? As a nonbudget option? Or is the double black and lack of synergy not worth it? Same for cards like Cast Down
Looks kinda like my prerelease deck, it was insane
I was looking into running daz in my grixis deck. W 3 copies of nightviel sprte. Really cool
Dive down?(Blur blossoming defense) This is a great card because you do sometimes through all of you eggs in one basket boosting one creature, and one removal spell destroys your 6:6 or higher
Gruesome Menagerie could also be a consideration in the sideboard, able to bring back a phantasm, spy bug and a blood op against control. Junk rare to boot.
10:35 have you tried augur (the 2/2 that brainstorms) it's probably really bad, but it could be insane.
In limited enhanced surveillance has won me grindy games with the shuffle.
What would you change for the none budget deck?
Add Doom Whisperers or Dream Eater
I personally enjoy mucking up the ground with dimir informant. The surveil two is nice, plus it gives you time to stabilize. Doom Whisperer has won me several losing games against izzet control. As soon as it pops out go to town on surveil for spybug and phantasm and swing for game. I personally feel 4 notion rains is too many, it feels bad hitting it late game if you miss a surveil and don't have the life to spare
I also run a one of etrata to dump into my grave for lazav as emergency removal (plus 3 bonus damage!)
THanks for the great deck breakdown. How about a strategy to beat this deck? Would be helpful for me a rookie at MtG.
Dev, don't spend Wildcards on lands! Do Drafts instead! Arena bots don't value those and they're easy to pick up.
ohh thats a nice idea.
thanks for the tip!
Dev knows all about getting it big fast
Enhanced surveillance works great in my opinion... due to the fact if you surveil 1 its actually 3 to get cards you need into your hand because i also play disinformation campaign which works great to pick up that 1 mana just to surveil it back into your hand. it also helps you against mill decks. Burnt through all your good surveil cards just exile enhanced surveillance and start your library over and build your spybugs and thought phantasms back up they probaly wont be able to get rid of them twice.
Risk factor and swordpoint diplomacy look good together
I play enhance surveillance and etrata so i can mill my whole deck for her after every trigger. Basically free removal. If she dies i copy wit lazav. The thing about enhanced surveillance is you almost always surveil into more surveil cards even if the count is lower.
When a card says "Surveil 2", does that mean we get to put 2 counters on Thoughtbound Phantasm or Dimir Spybug? Or, does it count as a single Surveil trigger, but with 2 cards (and only 1 counter)?
Single surveil trigger per card you play with any amount of surveil
Stay safe out there Dev!
I ran a deck pretty similar to this that I'm currently tweaking on MTG Arena. If you ever go up against Cogmancer, that's me. :)
Ran something similar, I did end up playing Riverwise Auger to put creeping chill's back on top of the library, as well as search for azcanta and Doom whisperer.
Did you ever test with Auger by chance? I saw your tweet about Auger with Lich and Tatiovya, was just curious if it was on your mind as you were building this deck.
I'm watching this at 10am at work, and I can't wait to go home and try this out now. Cool deck stuffed with pretty girls in black (and yes, I'm so putting an informant or two in there!), and I do have a single watery grave as a good start. Thanks for a great decktech, and we hope you'll stay safe and that the hurricane won't cause any damage to your area. If it does let us know and I'm sure we'll be delighted to help out!
Would House Guildmage be a decent card to include in here? She functions as a mana sink and can Surveil 2 for 3 mana. Dream Eater also looks really nice with a Surveil 4, but costs 1 mana more than even the Doom Whisperer. I have a copy (together with a copy of the Doom Whisperer) but unlike the Whisperer, I'm not sure if I should include it or not.
Back with best intro song!
Would it be a good idea to include 2 or even 3 copies of Favorable Winds? Your main source of offensive comes from flyers plus it would be a decent move to make in case you get a turn where you're not able to surveil.
I would out the Narcomoeba's for Watcher in the Mist's. Watcher has the Surveil on ETB and is my finisher. Maybe go with 2 of each, but definitely not a full play set of Narco
I've been fiddling with this deck a bunch lately and I actually ended up cutting Narcomeoba and Creeping Chill entirely. Yeah, it's sweet when you mill them, but since none of our cards Surveil more than 2 we mostly end up having to cast Narco and CC from our hand and they are just *terrible* when cast that way. Just so, so bad. The deck's consistency improved greatly when I took these two cards out.
Meanwhile, Whisper Agent is amazing. Seriously, I didn't expect to like it was much as I did but I figured I'd give it a try and it radically over performed. It's basically our version of Rogue Refiner, and I don't think that's an unreasonable comparison. Surveil 1 is about half the value of drawing a card, but we get Flash to improve the value of WA itself. Plus all our Surveil triggers are easily worth the value of 2 Energy. And a 3/2 body on its own can be quite a clock, or we can trade against aggro.
$15-20!!! Nice! Know what my paycheck is gonna involve this Thursday!
How do you test out your decks? Do you build a proxy version and play it with others or use Xmage?
Either Xmage or MTGO, I'd say.
Hey Dev - any chance of an Arena-centric deck-tech anytime? You mention it towards the end, but it'd be great to see a tech with it wholly in mind.
Great budget deck
I was thinking about building something similar but i am not sure it would be consistent enough
What about a dimir discard - flyers?
We have lots of good dimir fliers and we can pump them with f.winds. Then we have lot of good discard and the spirit payoff ( wich flies!) Anf then some bounce spells to make discard their biggest threats
I think that has some merit. I have seen potential for dimir fliers. Not sure if they completely mesh. You lose surveil for including more fliers.
I will note. Swinging with Nightveil-Sprite on turn 3, lets you bounce your campaign right after you've played it.
The deck I am running. Is Enchanced Survallance , with 3 lavaz, 3 etetra with some control. I can hyper thin to my board wipes or counters. And the plan is to just play lazav or etetra, or (I have 2 predators and a couple thoughtbound phantasms). When your top deck is always etetra, gameplan is strong.
Vs counter burn, I remember searching for my Sister-Sabotage. Surveil 12, top deck it. Then I did it again the next turn. Some part of me at the moment really wants to run the odd 70-80 card deck. So that I have more versatile answers, and the bigger deck bothers surveil 12 like not at all. The only problem is the starting hands will be more variable.
Need help on my first dimir paper build. I plan on going to my 2nd fnm and wanted advice on my deck. What to take out and put in. I have a play set of disinformation campaign and narcomoeba I also wanted to put 2 bloodlink operative in thanks in advance!
1x doom whisperer
2x nightveil predator
3x thief of sanity
2x nightveil sprite
2x lazav the multifarious
2x whispering snitch
4x dimir spybugs
4x thoughtbound phantasm
1x price of fame
2x creeping chill
1x murder
3x sinister sabotage
3x notion rain
3x discovery dispersal
2x unexplained disappearance
2x thought erasure
1x dead weight
Stay safe in the storm Dev!
I've been waiting for your intake on Surveil.
I like hearing your voice as i drive home.
I have bad memories fighting Dimir.
Luckily, my last opponent in Dimir was running mill, so I had my vengeance.
I feel like if you took out a rain and a chill and replaced them with at least two lands (swamps specifically) it would be a little more consistent. I say that cause I recently played with this deck and the land draw was not consistent. Also, you don't really want to draw the chills too much and/or in your opening hand too much because you would rather dump it in the yard from surveilling. That's just me though.
Hey I was already building one of these
same
I started out a Golgari man...now Dimir has me firmly in it's clutches....
Still evolving...I'll get there...haha
if i wanted to put in doom whisperer, what should i take out, i have two of them.
So doesn't Phantazom only get 1 counter even if you "surveil 2", that's how it works In Arena anyway.
yes , only 1 counter .
Its one of those "whenever you" cards not like Niv where it deals damage every card you draw... yes it does look at the rules
Oh shit, I didn't know Dev was a Georgia boy. I live in Athens, raining pretty hard, stay safe Dev!
I'm slightly confused as to why Dream Eater wasn't mentioned at all. Surveil 4, pump your bugs/spirit dude, bounce their best dude with a 4/3 flying flash body seems juicy delicious in a deck like this.
Be safe down there, my dude. I'm sending good vibes your way.
Love the deck. Question: Unmoored Ego didn't find a home here?
Is there a spreadsheet with all the power rankings that we could see? Cheers Dev!
What do you mean? With all the decks he's done? OR, a spread sheet that shows how these scores are achieved?
If it's the latter you are after, these scores are basically a 'Wet Thumb' based upon testing and grading cards individually in regards to how strong they are in the meta (Mainly the 'Power' score ~ which is also sort of a 'wet thumb' method). The value of the scoring overall is that you 'Wet Thumb' the deck on various categories important for a deck in a certain meta, to achieve *more of* an objective view, as opposed to just giving it one wet thumb score based upon the whole (ps. roughly speaking: 65+ is A-tier, 60~65 B-tier, 55~60 C-tier; though do note that the strength of a deck is ultimately determined by the (local) meta it is played in).
Then when it comes to all the decks done so far, you have to be aware that you can not really compare decks this way, simply because the scores are based upon the meta the deck was in when it was tested and scored. A score of say 61 of a rotation proof Ixalan based deck, in the pre-Ravnica meta, may not hold true in today's meta. The end score mostly says something about that score compared to the scoring in general, basically gives an indication about the Tier it should probably fall into, with 'again' the notion that the true strength of the deck is ultimately determined by the (local) meta it is played in (and i guess the pilot can make a difference too, depending on the complexity of the game plan).
Hope this answers your question, or at least tells you how to interpret the powerscore; if you want Dev to explain it, you should go through his archives and find the video in which he explains the ranking. Probably named something like 'how i rank desk' or 'how i get to the rankings' or 'how i score decks' … seeing most of the videos are named after the deck they feature, i'm fairly sure that when you go through the list the name you are looking for will seem obvious to you when you read it ;)
what should you take out for x doom whisper and x lazav?
Narcomoeba & Creeping chill.
I’d do 3 Lazav & 3 Whisperer, or 4 Lazav 2 Whisperer and add either 2 Nightveil Sprite or 2 discovery/dispersal.
hey bud! gonna try this deck out tonight! Sidenote, where would you fit doom whisperer in? swap for who and how many?
What would you swap out for the whisperers and lazav if you do want to upgrade then? It's hard to change cards in such a synergistic deck.
Could probably drop a few narcomoebas and wall of bones
Man I really wish lands weren't so expensive. It really limits budget players when we're forced to spend a ton on a mana base or just play a strictly worse version of our deck.
Razqua I wish most of the cards weren’t so expensive, especially risk factor and Aurelia and ionize
The thing is the shocklands aren't that much now. They're way cheaper now and we'll worth it since you can move them to modern. Cards like vraskas contempt are expensive and will never see play outside of standard.
I personally think the current meta is actually great for budget players, as we have both the Guildgates and the Tapped Duals (they are in the Toolkits and all cards in there are standard legal), plus even Evolving wilds is legal to play (from Rivals), so we can have pretty dang good mana for a budget deck (12 pieces of potential fixing), given of course these types of cards lend themselves more for a slower deck ... But even decks like these that prefer untapped lands, if you go for say a max of 6 dual lands, there won't be that many occasions where you can not find a turn to play one tapped (if you have to), be it on turn one or on turn 3 or 4, while they then still provide the flexibility of dual lands where it concerns tapping for specific colors.
Aghore I agree in principle. There are options for budget players if you can stomach occasionally losing to a top8 netdeck. But honestly, there are only so many land cycles that can be printed - they just did checks, now shocks, what's next - fetch lands? GamerSwagThe has a point as well, WOTC is keeping the price of key lands down with reprints.
Buying the lands as singles (or opening packs) seems like a fair price to pay if you haven't been playing long enough to have older copies. The game encourages you to collect cards for future use, which, arguably, is why MTG is still around.
yes, but especially shocks now will stay for 2 years and as such a playset is no waste, as they are also needed for modern
My first comment ever on your channel and might I say your the finest my friend. Please do a Naya angels deck if you have the time! I think it's gonna be boss for the first few weeks of standard.
why no Riverwise augur to get rid of those Narcomebas and Creeping chills that rot in your hand?
If you added Lazav and Doom Whiperer, what would you remove?
Because the Arena Gods are funny like that, I opened 3 Watery Graves and no other dual lands (despite being a Golgari player). I guess I'll look into this a bit more closely.
Here's to hoping you're doing okay!
Can you try to make a Mono Black Undergrowth/Surveil Deck?