If I can give you any single piece of advice… don’t get the summit turbo cams. Their stg 3 cam Cost me 8mph in the 1/8 when I changed to it over a BTR ls3 cam in my turbo 5.3 car. It doesn’t matter if you only want 600hp or something really low. But if your in the 900… 1000hp+ area… the summit cams are terrible on a 5.3 in my experience. In fact I have one with 10 passes I’ll sell ya cuz I’m ripping it out
@@richardholdener1727 car went from 128mph in the 1/8 to 120mph. No other changes. Don’t get me wrong, for a stock bore 5.3 120mph in 11,000DA air @3400lbs is moving pretty good. But we lost power with the swap over the BTR stage 2 NA ls3 cam.. I wish I had more data to compare.. back pressure.. pre intercooler/post intercooler pressures.. but unfortunately I do not.
The answer is, if you're gonna take the time to build a turbo kit and get it dialed in, you should always do a cam and springs. Really any engine with factory springs is leaving power on the table, but with the conservative factory cam specs you're working against yourself to do modifications but leave factory profile cam
I think the caveat is unless there's a trailer hooked up to the back of the truck lol. RH, can we get some videos for turbos + towing? There's not much out there on the internet about this topic!
@@scottleggejr cooling will always be a struggle. Look at the size of a kenworth radiator, that is the radiator needed to use 500-600 hp continually. Transmission life will also suffer.
As usual I learned whole bunch of stuff bcz you really hav-it together..Iv commented b4 but Tuff not to comment when ur this good answering so many questions just I want to know, I can only imagine what u teach people w/o my knowledge which is alot, I do have blown pro mod & Blown pro street aswell Turbo Porsche & I learn so much for Richard its not even funny🎸
Aftermarket cams make the turbo more efficient. More boost also means more heat. Stock cams are more streetable. In all honesty stock cams are fine in a boosted street car up to a certain power lever say 700whp.
Tradeoffs either way. Small cam with higher boost has the benefit of not needing a cam swap but has the drawbacks of higher boost - higher octane, less efficient, ect. Both ways have merit.
10.4psi is very mild indeed. Much more benefit upping the boost to 15psi (pump fuel) or 18psi (e85) than changing the cam, unless or course, you do not want that massive midrange torque hit that breaks things.
Being a Big Six Ford owner, as several hundred thousands us do, I would be interested in your experience/thoughts on overcoming the lack of after market performance parts. The 4.9/300 owners out here thank you in advance
I love your videos. Just one request: when comparing charts at the beginning, please limit the number of variables. For example, you added boost but also jumped to E85 on the same test.
@@midwestdave33in that case the timing is what increased power, not the E85. E85 allowed it, but timing is what did it, in other words like Richard said switching to E85 alone without adjusting the tune will increase power next to none.
I never gapped my rings but then again my supercharger never sees more than 13lbs....lol.....I pulled the rings straight from the box onto the pistons, hell I didn't even measure them.....did 3 motors that way with no issues at all
Well for one thing I believe you would run into detonation issues sooner with a stock cam and boost than you would with a larger cam and more overlap etc. especially depending on static compression. As far as overall cylinder pressure, anytime you increase power from your engine you are essentially increasing average cylinder pressure so look to the power curve and that should in theory match with the cylinder pressure of the engine, if theirs a marked increase in one there is usually an increase in the other. (Power vs Avg Cyl Pressure)
Boost is easy, but boy does that extra torque start breaking stuff. Hell, the torque differential between low and high boost is probably enough to break a stock 4L60 (probably would've broken on the NA setup if it was pre-2003 version).
That’s why I consider a 4l80e part of the upgrade. Even before adding a bunch of power I make sure the trans is going to be good for it. I’ve had too many transmissions ruin my day to over look them.
Richard sorry this is off the topic, but I’m planning a boosted ls build and am not sure what to start with as I’m in Australia and we only ever had alloy ls engines here so to buy a iron block engine is expensive but not out of the question.so that being said should I start with a iron or alloy block? I know this is opposite to what you are use to in America, but I just want to a engine that will last and cope with some decent boost. Thanks
Gotta a question for you. Stock 5.3 in a 2010 Silverado. It’s used for towing and getting me to work. What’s more efficient for this kind of application. Turbo or supercharger? The truck really needs that low end torque.
Two questions. One is, is it just e85 on the higher boost tests or did you switch to race gas. The other is why run a high lSA on the cam. I don't know much about forced induction, but it is my understanding that for NA power the tighter the lobe separation the more power, trade off is idle and vacuum quality.You are also closing the valve sooner and compressing more volume if it has the ability got get in to the cylinder with a tighter lobe separation. Is it a matter of reversion at low speeds, that one would want a wide lobe separation angle. Could a close lobe separation angle cam be worse than a stock cam on a boosted application?
I noticed this cam only has two degrees of overlap.it’s on a 115 lsa if your not running a lot of boost wouldn’t it be lazy down low ?. As a 115 makes you wait for the power up top
I have been running a stock 2004 LR4 in my cutlass with a VS Racing 75mm T4 turbo. Car ran great on 15-17 psi. 7.12 in the 1/8th. I added a Elgin Sloppy stage 2 cam and it makes boost WAY faster now. My first run with the cam it went from 4 psi on the launch to 26.8 PSI in about 1 second. I didn't have it tuned for that high of boost and luckily it laid over and didn't blow up. Now I have been working on the tuning for this cam and I am trying to figure out what timing to add and fuel. I need a dyno so bad right now...lol.
Do you have to replace head studs and gaskets I have heard there reusable, and that in a strength test ARP studs really weren't much better than stock?
The arp are definitely stronger and are meant to be reused . But it's been proven that stock reused headbolts are way stronger than people expect and hold up to a lot of power just fine
ARP’s are a significant amount better. Trust me. That being said, I have cheap China studs holding 26+ pounds of boost. Even and true clamping force it’s what’s important. And the way a stud works vs a bolt immensely improves how consistent and true your torque is. So if some screams the stock bolts have the same tensile strength as China studs… just laugh.. because they don’t understand why a stud is better than bolt. How strong the bolt is… is only a fraction of the story.
@@nsboost actually theres been a test done comparing arp/stock new try/stock used ttt/china studs . The china studs had the least amount of clamping force/tensile strength before letting go
@@richardholdener1727 thanks for the reply! You have encouraged me to get off my ass and build the lq4 inside of my Hummer H2 lol she is on the engine stand getting new rings with gap.
@@richardholdener1727 my only concern is valve float around 6k rpm on the stock springs. i have the pac springs and pro ls cam but theyre in a 5.3 right now
Who in their right mind would go in and stick $1,500 worth of cylinder heads another eight or nine hundred in rods and pistons and already have the motor apart and leave a stock cam in it and not gain the extra hundred horsepower for a few hundred dollars???
@@adamballinger1358 well then I guess you and that other red-headed step-child that like your comment. Like my grandfather said you can't teach stupid. obviously you don't race😂😂😂
![[UNCUT] "บอสณวัฒน์" แฉ! แหล่งซุกเงินแก๊งบอส ขยันผิดที่ไม่กี่ปีก็เข้าคุก l คนดังนั่งเคลียร์ l17ต.ค.67](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/BL56qIfXYZM/mqdefault.jpg)
Richard has done this test before And just like last time he proves that boost is good but boost with a cam is more gooder.
lots gooder
We should all write to gm and petition to make the 6.2 the smallest LT they make. Bring the volume discount at the junkyard.
Well they kinda listened. In '21 and up Express and Savana come with 1 V8 option, the gas 6.6 😀
Thanks Richard, I have purchased 2 of the Summit Pro LS cams.
I've been waiting for this one thanks Richard.
Every LS needs a good cam......period
Richard, thank you. I've learned a lot since watching your videos. I find them both informative and exciting. They definitely make me think.
About to build a 5.3 so this vid is gonna be perfect 😁
I built a 5.3 based off Richards videos and data. LM7, ported heads, jegs stage 2 cam/springs, and a gt45 turbo.
If I can give you any single piece of advice… don’t get the summit turbo cams. Their stg 3 cam Cost me 8mph in the 1/8 when I changed to it over a BTR ls3 cam in my turbo 5.3 car.
It doesn’t matter if you only want 600hp or something really low. But if your in the 900… 1000hp+ area… the summit cams are terrible on a 5.3 in my experience.
In fact I have one with 10 passes I’ll sell ya cuz I’m ripping it out
8mph?
@@richardholdener1727 car went from 128mph in the 1/8 to 120mph. No other changes. Don’t get me wrong, for a stock bore 5.3 120mph in 11,000DA air @3400lbs is moving pretty good. But we lost power with the swap over the BTR stage 2 NA ls3 cam..
I wish I had more data to compare.. back pressure.. pre intercooler/post intercooler pressures.. but unfortunately I do not.
@@nsboost it works different on everyone's combo, what is the grind for each and the specs on your build?
The answer is, if you're gonna take the time to build a turbo kit and get it dialed in, you should always do a cam and springs. Really any engine with factory springs is leaving power on the table, but with the conservative factory cam specs you're working against yourself to do modifications but leave factory profile cam
Agreed. Up to 90 bhp is what a cam gives. Why wouldn’t you. Even a mild emissions cam if that’s what you want, its so easy to swap in.
I think Ricky is saying that every 5.3 should have a 475 on it. Stock cam or not.
I think the caveat is unless there's a trailer hooked up to the back of the truck lol. RH, can we get some videos for turbos + towing? There's not much out there on the internet about this topic!
@@scottleggejr cooling will always be a struggle. Look at the size of a kenworth radiator, that is the radiator needed to use 500-600 hp continually. Transmission life will also suffer.
@@kellyheath8547 I was more focused on fuel/timing with loads higher than normal than ECT. But yea I agree with your point.
As usual I learned whole bunch of stuff bcz you really hav-it together..Iv commented b4 but Tuff not to comment when ur this good answering so many questions just I want to know, I can only imagine what u teach people w/o my knowledge which is alot, I do have blown pro mod & Blown pro street aswell Turbo Porsche & I learn so much for Richard its not even funny🎸
happy to help
As always much-needed information thanks Richard..
Hooking that high boost, stock cam setup might be interesting. Be some sweet wheelies when you do though.
Will you make more videos for an ls1? Like max boost for a stock ls1 and best heads for it? Your videos are great by the way!
Best heads are afr 205’s and max boost is when it goes bang
Aftermarket cams make the turbo more efficient. More boost also means more heat. Stock cams are more streetable. In all honesty stock cams are fine in a boosted street car up to a certain power lever say 700whp.
boost multiplies what is there-if a cam adds power na, that gain is multiplied under boost
Tradeoffs either way. Small cam with higher boost has the benefit of not needing a cam swap but has the drawbacks of higher boost - higher octane, less efficient, ect.
Both ways have merit.
10.4psi is very mild indeed. Much more benefit upping the boost to 15psi (pump fuel) or 18psi (e85) than changing the cam, unless or course, you do not want that massive midrange torque hit that breaks things.
Thanks Richard.
Being a Big Six Ford owner, as several hundred thousands us do, I would be interested in your experience/thoughts on overcoming the lack of after market performance parts.
The 4.9/300 owners out here thank you in advance
Boost!
Super simple ls swap
Its pretty apparent lol, do a mild cam and valve springs and add boost. I think something like a 70/65 would suit a 300 pretty well
No one makes performance parts for the 4.9 because if you can't afford anything more than a 4.9 you aren't going to buy any performance parts
@@chipcurrey653 Research the 'Flying Frenchman'
Awesome content as always 👍
great test !!! just wish you would have run pump gas instead of e85.. i live in the sticks and theres no e85 near me for miles..
just run less timing and less power with pump
I know this is an old video, but would be really interesting to see the back pressure data between the 2 cams, if you have that ?
Gracias por el video. Thanks for the video. Im love stock cam with gt35 turbo.
Great video, thanks for posting.
I love your videos. Just one request: when comparing charts at the beginning, please limit the number of variables. For example, you added boost but also jumped to E85 on the same test.
e85 on an na motor does nothing for power
@@richardholdener1727 Gotcha. Thanks for the explanation.
@@richardholdener1727 Really? I beg to differ, allows more timing.
@@midwestdave33in that case the timing is what increased power, not the E85. E85 allowed it, but timing is what did it, in other words like Richard said switching to E85 alone without adjusting the tune will increase power next to none.
I noticed you have a honda inline 4 series , can you do a newer. Ford 2.3 ford ecoboost and find out what it can do and its limits?
All that boost and IV yet to hear ya talk about gapping the rings
I never gapped my rings but then again my supercharger never sees more than 13lbs....lol.....I pulled the rings straight from the box onto the pistons, hell I didn't even measure them.....did 3 motors that way with no issues at all
Can you please do a video on Comp FSL 210/218 (if you haven't done so) and CA Smog legal LS mods.
Stock cam with boost, what does this do to cylinder pressure under load in higher gears low rpms? vs big cam
Well for one thing I believe you would run into detonation issues sooner with a stock cam and boost than you would with a larger cam and more overlap etc. especially depending on static compression. As far as overall cylinder pressure, anytime you increase power from your engine you are essentially increasing average cylinder pressure so look to the power curve and that should in theory match with the cylinder pressure of the engine, if theirs a marked increase in one there is usually an increase in the other. (Power vs Avg Cyl Pressure)
Turbo cam is similar to NA.
Nitrous cam is similar to supercharger cam.
Dedicated grinds are always best.
Another great video, thank you 🤘🏼
Right on
Boost is easy, but boy does that extra torque start breaking stuff. Hell, the torque differential between low and high boost is probably enough to break a stock 4L60 (probably would've broken on the NA setup if it was pre-2003 version).
That’s why I consider a 4l80e part of the upgrade. Even before adding a bunch of power I make sure the trans is going to be good for it. I’ve had too many transmissions ruin my day to over look them.
Would a 6l90 hold up to 500rwhp?
@@kevinmcquitery4543 6L90 will easily hold 800+ whp tuned properly
Great video
Richard sorry this is off the topic, but I’m planning a boosted ls build and am not sure what to start with as I’m in Australia and we only ever had alloy ls engines here so to buy a iron block engine is expensive but not out of the question.so that being said should I start with a iron or alloy block?
I know this is opposite to what you are use to in America, but I just want to a engine that will last and cope with some decent boost.
Thanks
an alum l33 or lc9 5.3L block can make a ton
Gotta a question for you. Stock 5.3 in a 2010 Silverado. It’s used for towing and getting me to work. What’s more efficient for this kind of application. Turbo or supercharger? The truck really needs that low end torque.
either can add a lot
Two questions. One is, is it just e85 on the higher boost tests or did you switch to race gas. The other is why run a high lSA on the cam. I don't know much about forced induction, but it is my understanding that for NA power the tighter the lobe separation the more power, trade off is idle and vacuum quality.You are also closing the valve sooner and compressing more volume if it has the ability got get in to the cylinder with a tighter lobe separation. Is it a matter of reversion at low speeds, that one would want a wide lobe separation angle. Could a close lobe separation angle cam be worse than a stock cam on a boosted application?
a tight lsa cam (in this duration range) wont make less power than a stock cam
Richard Holdener I've got a summit racing truck ls cam and 799 heads on my ly6. I believe close to 11:1 compression. Is that to high to add a turbo?
not with enough octane, a good intercooler, e85 and/or proper tuning. You can always add 317 heads
Well, this pretty much settles it for the T-Bucket, stock cam and small twin turbskies for power below 5K.
You will be blowing the tyres of in every gear.
@@nordic5490 isnt that the point? Lol
Truck cam better
I noticed this cam only has two degrees of overlap.it’s on a 115 lsa if your not running a lot of boost wouldn’t it be lazy down low ?. As a 115 makes you wait for the power up top
Overlap is bad - doesnt hold boost pressure as well.
its 115 +5
On average what static compression would be max with say 10lbs boost using Aussie 98 octane
we run around 10:1
Hi Richard, can you recall which A/R this unit was? Did it have beehive springs also?
Great comparison, thanks
beehives are stock on LS motors
1.32-the tfs heads had dual springs
Thanks @@richardholdener1727appreciate the reply, and all your videos, thanks
I have been running a stock 2004 LR4 in my cutlass with a VS Racing 75mm T4 turbo. Car ran great on 15-17 psi. 7.12 in the 1/8th. I added a Elgin Sloppy stage 2 cam and it makes boost WAY faster now. My first run with the cam it went from 4 psi on the launch to 26.8 PSI in about 1 second. I didn't have it tuned for that high of boost and luckily it laid over and didn't blow up. Now I have been working on the tuning for this cam and I am trying to figure out what timing to add and fuel. I need a dyno so bad right now...lol.
Richard doing a cam and turbo ls video for the 473rd time...
Me watching:👁👄👁
Do you have to replace head studs and gaskets I have heard there reusable, and that in a strength test ARP studs really weren't much better than stock?
The arp are definitely stronger and are meant to be reused . But it's been proven that stock reused headbolts are way stronger than people expect and hold up to a lot of power just fine
ARP’s are a significant amount better. Trust me. That being said, I have cheap China studs holding 26+ pounds of boost.
Even and true clamping force it’s what’s important. And the way a stud works vs a bolt immensely improves how consistent and true your torque is.
So if some screams the stock bolts have the same tensile strength as China studs… just laugh.. because they don’t understand why a stud is better than bolt. How strong the bolt is… is only a fraction of the story.
@@nsboost plenty of videos out there showing the China studs are weaker than gm headbolts.
@@nsboost actually theres been a test done comparing arp/stock new try/stock used ttt/china studs . The china studs had the least amount of clamping force/tensile strength before letting go
@@nsboost China studs are no better than 200,000 mile stock . ARP are 20 kilo newtons stronger. The weakest link is the rods on a gen 3.
Hey richard is there a good twin turbo kit you can recommend for a 5.3 stroked to 364ci? Aiming for low lag bottom end power.
not sure on exact kits
Personally I blame squirrels
quick on the draw
All stock lm7 engines have Dish Pistons
yes-but not all 5.3Ls are lm7s
Hi Richard, what cam is the lousiest cam that ever came stock in a v8
Probably anything from 1975-1982 lol
@@ianm432 I think your right man!!!!
200 hp big blocks.....lol
Yo I can't find the sloppy stage 2 vs the world under boost video..
has not been tested
@@richardholdener1727 Oh... makes sense
Is 1000hp possible with a stock lq4 cam?
yes
@@richardholdener1727 thanks for the reply! You have encouraged me to get off my ass and build the lq4 inside of my Hummer H2 lol she is on the engine stand getting new rings with gap.
now how about my 100% stock lq4?
add boost
@@richardholdener1727 my only concern is valve float around 6k rpm on the stock springs. i have the pac springs and pro ls cam but theyre in a 5.3 right now
👍💪
Who in their right mind would go in and stick $1,500 worth of cylinder heads another eight or nine hundred in rods and pistons and already have the motor apart and leave a stock cam in it and not gain the extra hundred horsepower for a few hundred dollars???
Me
@@adamballinger1358 well then I guess you and that other red-headed step-child that like your comment. Like my grandfather said you can't teach stupid. obviously you don't race😂😂😂
Seems like someone missed the point of the test
Yes he said foot lbs but we know he ment 771 Llama power..
Give the man a break.
When are you getting to the 81-86.. LT9.. 160hp.. box stock.. Chevy 350? That equals about .45 hp/per/cube. Square Body sad face. Lol.
there is nowhere to go but up in power
Lol toilet paper commercial about saving paper while we burn mucho fuel.. muahahahahaha