Ranting about These Violent Delights for an hour straight (Chloe Gong book review)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ส.ค. 2024
- We somehow get through and review These Violent Delights, by Chloe Gong, an inexplicably boring retelling of Romeo and Juliet in 1920's Shanghai that was also somehow popular on booktok and booktube.
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I will only consider myself successful when these two rip my first book apart
As an aspiring writer, it'd be such an honour.
I agree, my first book comes out this year and I’m sooo tempted to send it to these two for a good shredding.
Honestly if you ever get a book published. That's pretty far up the ladder of success already.
100% agree - I think I'd learn a LOT listening to them dissect my book
It’s a fear of mine to publish a book and have it be ripped apart and hated
You hit on my main issue with the crop of YA stuff over the last few years especially. Younger and younger authors who aren’t ready yet or are impatient to get success as soon as possible. They want to skip the craft and go right to fandom and streaming rights. They might even have amazing concepts but they can’t execute them well enough yet, and editors and agents see easy sales and don’t have time to do major edits. I work on both sides of publishing, both in-house (design, not editorial) and as a creator, and it’s really disheartening.
i feel that. i'm not writing ya at the moment, but i often feel this pressure to finish my story as soon as possible. i have to remind myself it's better to hone the craft and the story for 5 more years and maybe try getting an agent when i'm 24, instead of rushing to finish right now.
I just read her book Immortal Longings and all I could think was "Craft issue, craft issue, craft issue." Exposition dumps are thick an heavy for the first half of the book then for the second half there's almost no description of just about anything. 20 something protags acting like 16 year olds. Childish examinations of class struggle and how the rich and poor behave. Character and narrative arcs were flat and matter of fact.
BUT. Beneath it all, I could see the potential. The setting was interesting. The power system was unique and had potential for societal and personal examinations of identity. The description of the powers being used could have easily been horrible, but it was competently done.
The story could have been several times better in more skilled hands. I hope that they hone their craft instead of settling for being a standard fair YA author. If nothing else, they can put together some interesting ideas that beg to be done justice. If they could raise their craft ability to come even somewhat close to their ability to generate ideas then they could make some compelling stories.
It should also be pointed out that Romeo & Juliet has been interpreted as a satire for Elizabethan romance and the tragedy isn't in the 'love story; has more to do with the fact that their families were so self involved they weren't paying attention to their idiot kids in time to stop them and basically how pointless and hurtful to everyone this feud is.
I feel like that's the original interpretation I heard as a kid, that it's really about how the two families are too wrapped up in their feud to realize what it's doing to the future generations.
But somewhere along the way everyone got so wrapped up in the love story part of it they forgot what it's really about.
If you think about it this way Mark Twain wrote what could essentially be considered a reinterpretation of Romeo and Juliette, with Huckleberry Finn witnessing the whole thing, but one wouldn't think of it that immediately because he focused much more on the family feud side of it. The end result was also far more tragic even than Shakespeare.
Yes, that's a valid interpretation. Mark Manson had once brought up another one: that the crazy stuff those idiot kids would do for love is scary, and that their love isn't something to be fawning over. But that's not how pop culture sees it.
Yeah the tragedy is not that two kids died but that because of a feud that the cause of has likely been forgotten two children ended up dead the death in of itself is not the tragedy
I’m on the teen writer/author side of Instagram (because I am a teen writer) and people practically worship this book. So it’s interesting to see what adults have to say about it because lemme tell ya, the teens go *feral* . Anyhow, my burnout on YA has led me to start reading classic lit from the era I’m writing in and damn, is it refreshing.
Any ya book recommendations?
Good for you! I read stacks of Dostoyevsky, and other Russian classics, at the age I guess I would have been expected to read YA - and no regrets, still love Crime and Punishment (Tolstoi somehow I never got into). I do think everyone can read whatever they want, of course, but the current general obsession with YA is sort of exasperating.
I think adults need a looot more than teens to be invested in a story. They need all the background info, how they fell in love, different timelines, flashbacks, etc to be able to grasp the plot. Whereas we as teens are more like omggg I love the characters!! It of course is nice to have some background info, but we don't need that to love a book. Maybe that's bc we haven't read that much yet, compared to adults. It's both good and bad ig
I still can't get over that she named a Russian "Roma Montagov". Roma is a pet name, and Montagov doesn't sound Russian in the least. If she had named him Roman Monosov or something along those lines, I might have looked upon this novel with kinder eyes... Until we got to Marshall Seo. How does an orphan boy end up with a Korean family name and an American first name, if he is raised by Russians in Shanghai? Okay, to try to pinpoint what my issues with this novel were: there were no stakes, the gangs were just scenery and conveniently absent whenever we needed them to be, the plot was bursting with melodrama, and the romance was cliché and lacking in chemistry. I think Will is very spot-on in saying this feels like a fanfic with good prose.
Roma is apparently his nickname but yeah the last name there's no excuse for
facts omg like she literally could've gone to wikipedia and looked for common surnames for that time period in russia. that's literally what i'm doing for my novel: choose authentic names from the time period and not names that "sound" like the language.
Americans didn’t even wear flapper dresses all the time in the 1920s. Sincerely someone who is obsessed with garment history of that time period. Most of their clothing was sturdy and sensible just very boxy.
Just finished and that was certainly a plot. Also idk if you’ve ever seen hoodwinked but when the bunny is complaining about the henchman or whatever’s name is all I could think of every time you said Paul’s name. 😂
People don’t seem to understand that flapper was a subculture and not a catch-all term for sassy women in the 1920s. And you could be a flapper while wearing galoshes and a simple cotton dress (which a lot did). And the beads! They didn’t only just wear beads!!! Stupid beads and feather headbands I hate it. Lol it makes me crazy. Especially because fashion in 1920 looked very different from fashion in like 1927.
Honestly having two separate names, one that connects you more to your family and one that connects you more to a different life is such a great literary device I can’t even understand how you would not want to use that to your fullest ability. I mean maybe this was to her fullest ability but still. Having Juliet be cut off from her Chinese name is so symbolic of being cut off from your roots that I just think that’s such a waste of potential. Having even her own family feels she’s cut off from that name to the extent they never use it is so telling and powerful and I could see so much emotional turmoil from Juliet for being so cut off and from the family for feeling she is so cut off and making her an outsider and how that would feel to be made the outsider. I’m so angry that something that deep and amazing and truly beautiful would just kind of become a meh element. I am so sure that there are plenty of people who have similar traditions in their families and cultures who suffer from feeling other by their families and who suffer from feeling a disconnect from their families and cultures because of those traditions. It could really impact a lot of people to see the representation of what that kind of situation feels like and how it impacts lives.
In my mothers culture, your godmother and godfather or somebody of importance gives you a name when you are born. It’s usually a second or third middle name, but it pertains to the language of our culture. For some in our culture that name is still used as a form of affection and four ceremonies and important milestones often enough to feel like a natural part of them. For others, like myself, my disconnect from not being around my larger family and my mothers refusal to keep up with traditions and milestones with us has caused to be just another name on my birth certificate. It hurts me that I don’t have a deeper connection like most of my cousins do. It feels as if I was robbed of it and it feels like I’m the one getting punished for it by not being respected as much as those who have the connection. (Keeping details vague about what culture I’m from because I just want to show an example without having to really go into it. It’s been a huge source of pain in my life and I just don’t want to be more personal.)
New subscriber, you guys are awesome!
@@Pharm2be OH MY GOD HOODWINKED I FUCKIN LOVE THAT MOVIE
Ouch, this was actually on my reading list as characters from Shanghai appear in a novel I'm writing at the moment so I also did some research into 1900's - 1930's Shanghai to craft them. From what you're saying Chloe Gong is actually correct about the facts of Shanghai Chinese society in the 1920'a , even the ones you found bizarre, like the upper class Chinese girls working as society cabaret dancers/entertainers. Alas, she appears to have done a bad job in translating that reality to the page so the historical details she's describing have the context that would help them make sense and provide an immersive background rather than a jarring one for lay readers. I was looking forward to this, but at least I'll be forewarned when I open it now!
I’m afraid my friend is just like this. My friend is a writer and I was beta-reading her story, I realized it was really problematic and that it was basically throwing in sexual assault for drama and to drive the romance, without much sensitivity or nuance. When I was telling her my criticisms and telling her the story is bad, she basically told me that bad stories appear in the mainstream all the time like Twilight or 50 shades, so why can’t she publish hers? I was dumbfounded. She would sacrifice the art of writing which she claims to be passionate about and cares more about earning money or clout. My friend refuses to work a 9-5 job even though she is struggling to make ends meet, so she is seriously depending on her books to miraculously be a hit and make her rich and famous, so she is subconsciously copying problematic tropes into her work.
This is the problem with writers nowadays who are trying to make a living as an author without establishing themselves financially first. They always expect their novel will become a hit, get viral, and Netflix or Hollywood will notice to make their book a movie. They depend on their problematic or underdeveloped works to make money.
Thing is people like EL James and Stephenie Meyer were already from relatively wealthy families when they wrote their hits.
Also, as a writer myself, some writers literally can’t face the criticism and can only live in the delusional story they have created in their mind never rereading their work and skipping over editing because they think it will be the next 50 shades.
I was like this when I finished my first book, but after getting upset about the criticism I actually thought through it and read through my novel and how the comments were helpful even if it wasn’t exactly what I would do moving forward.
You need to put the pride aside to creat a good novel and allow yourself to really ready your work without making its worth equal to your worth.
No book is ever perfect after the first draft and every book needs editing and tweaking to make it into what the author sees in their head.
And some people just can’t look at their flaws and work on it
@@emmyxb94 Writers who think that the success of Fifty Shades of Grey proves they don't need editing would do best to remember that Erica Leonard had connections in the publishing industry from the start, and important ones too. FSOG didn't succeed because of the contents of the book: it succeede because of the marketing.
As a writer and big reader, I hate hate HATE unnecessary SA scenes. It's ruined so many books for me because it's so obvious it's just there for shock value.
I hope she knows 50 shades was a one in a million type deal. For every fifty shades, there's millions of books that bombed.
Your friend needs to realize a few things:
1. Most of the famous authors who wrote crappy books and "got rich" off them were already financially well-off AND they had the connections to publish and heavily market their work.
2. 99.8% of the crappy books that already exist go unnoticed. They hardly sell any copies. They're adrift amongst the sea of boring plots, undeveloped characters, and problematic tropes.
3. She's shooting herself in the foot by not perfecting the craft of writing. She can't have a high marketing budget, so she needs to stand out from the crowd. This is where good writing will come in, and she needs to put in the sweat equity to promote her book.
4. 99.99% of "get rich quick" methods, including churning out bad books, will fail. If they succeed, they're either illegal or they work only briefly. Then you're back to square one.
"russians are not colonialists" *sobbing in post-USSR country*
Adding to the 'Western names' section: Don't forget the nationalism and patriotic feeling that Juliet was supposed to be portraying as well. Despite this, she still uses Western names even among themselves.
Maria: *angry ranting*
Autofocus: *rave music*
MAKE IT STOP - Maria
@@unresolvedtextualtension Autofocus: NEVER!
As someone currently trying to enter the publishing industry, from what I have heard, agents are generally only selling books that need less editing, and the editors do not have the time to edit the books. Editors generally don't have a life because the only time they have to edit is out of the office, so editors are just generally doing less editing because they are spending their time doing other things.
Honestly as a young writer but also as someone who has been writing a long time (I’m 20, have been writing since I was 5) there have been a few books I’ve seen where the author worked for a really long time on something they started as a teenager, and those books tend to be kind of bad. In my opinion, part of growing as a writer is working on/completing multiple projects as the years ago by, at least, that’s what’s helped me to grow. When you work on different stories you encounter new problems and that forces you to grow. I would argue that someone like Chloe, who worked on this book for 6 or so years, really needed to expand and grow more in order for this book to be better. And who knows, maybe she had side projects, I’m not sure. I think being able to work on multiple things helps you to return to your old work with new eyes. I don’t know exactly where I’m going with this, haha, and obviously this isn’t the case for everyone, it’s just something I’ve noticed. If you’re reading this and you feel like you’re stagnating in your writing, it might help to start a new project!
As a no-longer-young writer who started writing very young (first novel draft started when I was 9), I completely agree. When you start that young, improving your writing is as much about recognizing why your writing as a child was bad and what is salvageable as it is about improving your storycraft or other writing skills, and a lot of modern-day younger writers seem to miss that element. I finally released my debut a year ago because it took me 10 years as an adult to catch on to that fact, and that debut was the third re-imagining/re-drafting of a time-jumped forward story set in the world I created when I wrote a really terrible novel in high school. The world was pretty solid, but that storyline... ya'll ain't NEVER seeing that mess!
Thank you so much for this. I also started very young but reading my previous stuff makes me physically convulse lmfao. I loved reading and watching different tropes, then just smashed those tropes into what I believed would be the prefect story. Reading them now still makes me convulse but I then realized how vast childhood imagination is. A lot of unpolished things can be improved upon, and this comment feels like a good sign to come back once again to reading those old stuff and picking up certain pieces and learning how to make it better, or starting something new with those pieces and ideas. It's still a dream of mine to be able to publish my own book, and writing is also fun.
So true. Going back looking at 13yo me's private projects there are som kernels of good story seeds, but most of what surrounds it is just, oh. My. Goodness😳
"I had a scene with an albatross fighting off a bunch of griffins?! How-? Why-?"😂🤦🏻♀️
I miss the creativity and guts of my past self, but on the flip side I've gained much better insight into what makes a story good.
This was like almost all of my review on Goodreads. Like your childhood rough draft and first five tellings of the book are garbage. Kid's wrote stupid shit. Don't keep it. Destroy it and rebuild.
same. i have a whole onenotes notebook of old shit i wrote when i was like 14, and although it's objectively okay, it's definitely not up to the level it needs to be lmao
Y'know, I think there is a way to make the villain's motivation tie into the themes of colonialism and make sense. See, in the 1920s in England, it's well into the decline of the aristocracy, and a lot of "old money" families were too broke to pay for the upkeep of their ancestral homes. They were having to marry "new money" or *shudder* get into business.
English colonialism has a history of financial exploitation and fatal consequences for local population, so having the villain explicitly be not only trying to enrich his father, but restore his aristocratic family's lost wealth would be a period-appropriate motive. And framing it as colonial in the sense of "well they're not really *people* if they're foreign" both shows how he can do something so terrible and frames how messed up colonialism is.
Actually Roma is just an informal way of saying Roman. In Russian we normally have a formal and informal name. Informal name kinda acts like a nick name friends and family call you (Eg. Maria (formal) Masha (informal)). But I agree with you that other aspects or Russian naming like Otchestva (where you put a version of your father’s name as your middle name). As you guys have said, it could’ve added a lot more cultural context and make the world more real.
Yes, and from what I've understood (I'm not from Russia but I've read a lot of the old Russian classics and studied the language in the university) in the early 1900's the ochestva was really important, and people used it when they addressed each other, or am I wrong? The nickname is only for the ones who are close friends and family. It would have made much more sense if other characters called him Roman.
I'm the person who took an issue with Roma, simply because it's a 1920's historical urban fantasy and the novel establishes that his full, formal name is Roma.
@@llindberg194 If it is established in the novel that his full name is Roma, it is of course entirely wrong, just like you're saying. The writer has clearly not done enough research.
I find it so annoying with the newer generations of writers (now it seems like I am ancient, but I'm not: just into writing and older books) is that they sort of just blurt out their story, without any research, with tons of plot holes, sloppy characters and poor language and pacing.
Well, there are tons of shitty older books too, but the really bad ones from way back haven't survived anyways.
For me, I hate it when books have such a great idea and setting and then it lets me down. I think it’s because I know the potential was there and now no one can really take the idea and make it better now that’s it’s been taken.
Haven't finished the video yet but the mention of Juliet wearing flapper dresses made me write this. As someone very interested in 1920's clothing (and who's doing a story set in that period) it drives me insane how often people imagine the time period as women constantly wearing flapper dresses and those long pearl necklaces.
Really showcases their lack of research, because we still have so many pictures and actual clothes left from that time period so there really isn't any excuse anymore to be so clumsy with this imo.
It is mentioned that the vast majority of women there are wearing a qípáo, but that Juliette is an exception.
facts like the library of congress is your friend... so many helpful historical pictures and drawings of fashion
I don't know why new/younger authors nowadays think their books are amazing simply because they claim they've been working on it for years (which in many circumstances, I doubt). That used to be the norm when it came to writing and publishing books. People used to spend a few years writing a *single* book, going through numerous drafts and sorting out the story to make changes and fixes. Of course, those books weren't perfect and had there own issues, but damn, compared to nowadays, some of them look leagues better. No one wants to do numerous drafts or take their time with their stories anymore -- it's just about the popularity or money they can make off of it. Which is a shame because some of these people have many interesting ideas/concepts, but they just don't take the time to build it beyond ideas/concepts. So their books across as lazy and rushed.
i've been working on a book that started as a lil plot bunny like three years ago during a sociology class in ~online school~, and even though i'm super hyped to get it done, i realize how important it is to have patience to proofread and developmentally edit everything.
"No Romo"
- Juliet, Aromantic
I love these brutal reviews. I’m actually self publishing my own book this year and I’m seriously tempted to send it you guys so you can torch it. I’m only slightly masochistic, I promise 😅
I'm still a firm believer that since Will gets introduced as Rugged and Handsome, (which of course is true), then Maria should be introduced as Beautiful and Bubbly.
Also Will, I feel you. I got my haircut, and same thing. No good. Didn't listen to me. And by the time I realized what was going on, it was too late.
Only if hatie gets a moniker :P
moody and magnificent/magical?!
thanks for making doing chores much more enjoyable! made an apple pie while listening to this :)
also there's a german novella from the 19th century (I think) that's called something like 'Romeo and Juliet from the village' that is just a straight up comedy. it's set in a Swiss village and the big conflict between the families is that one of the fathers started to plough more field making his bigger in the process and thus taking field away from the other family. but instead of talking it out the stubborn fathers just spite each other and it's this huge thing for the silliest reason. its played so serious. did a report in that in 10th grade.
I'm about an hour in, not gonna lie, I haven't actually read this book, but Maria is describing how bad guy Paul developed this monster and it is so, so bad.
All I can think of is wouldn't it be better if the author had nixed the monster idea and made it so Paul was a mad-skilled pharmacist who made some super toxic strain of opium (or mixed the opium with some form of hallucinogenic) that gave everyone who took it some really vivid hallucinations which resulted in them tearing their own throats out (if she was really invested in that part of it) because they felt there was something crawling up it (not everyone gets the sensation, but it's a common side-effect).
I don't know a whole lot about 1920s china (only media depictions) but that seems like something that fits much better with the setting. Because even without a business deal with wouldn't have been hard for the Larkspur to poison the supply, because opium was everywhere. And it also makes more sense to me that he also came up with the 'antidote'.
LMAOOOOOO i relate to Will so much when Maria says, “I can see why others like this” and his reaction is just a deadpan shaking of the head
Maria explaining that bit about the dual timeline was so comforting bc my current romance novel has that and I've been very stressed about it bc mostly I hear that flashbacks/dual timelines are bad 😅
You guys should read Throne of Glass, it's so shitty and I would love to hear your thoughts on it
Same, I would love to hear the discussion!
Oh... when you said it was a retelling of Romeo and Juliet set in old Shanghai, I thought for sure they would be a Communist and a KMT member. That conflict was similar to the American Civil War in that there were brothers fighting brothers and there's been a lot of media exploring that theme. (I actually watched a fun one about long lost twins who ended up on different sides and then met again during a battle.) Anyway, I thought that was a brilliant idea, but I guess she just went with two random gangs. Oh well.
And also, the part of the tragedy that is present in Romeo and Juliet is the fact that the violence of thier family caused thier death. The tragedy is they died for childish crushes, not true love, and wouldn't grow old enough to have real love
From a Slavic person point of view: Slavic people (and all Eastern Europeans) are treated as less than by the Westerners even today.
Have not finished the video but I am SO relieved that we share the same opinion because I've been looking at all the reviews like ???? this whole time
Warning TLDR
It sounds like Chloe Gong had alot of good ideas for this book, but it sounds like the ideas made the book, but the reasons didn't which happens when writing a book. It sounds like she's had this book in her mind for along time, which causes you, the author, to forget how you got from plan A to Z. You just know that plan Z is the best idea you had, but you forget to help the reader along and see how Z works.
For example how you guys talked about how Shanghai was in the 1920s, which gives reason for how things are in the book. But Chloe Gong didn't explain that to the reader.
There are alot of things that happened in history that make sense in context, but without context, it sounds bizarre. For example, Nazi Germany and their gas chambers. When stated without context, you think: "How could an entire country get behind that? How did that country have allies?" But with context, the state of the country, WW1, Hitler's rise to power and so forth, it makes it more believable.
Ultimately, not a book I would read. Though I understand the author's struggles with including everything to make some aspects of the story make sense.
I think the most confusing thing to me is how books that are in "development" for that long somehow fail. I have had an idea for a book for quite awhile, maybe seven years? Worked on it here and there, but when I finally get to it I fully plan on revising and planning from my more mature view even though I have done worldbuilding, character building, plotting, all of it. It's the unwillingness to change that gets me. As the years go by I literally see where my shortcomings are, so I would imagine it's similar. Are they just so attached to their themes they're unwilling to let go of the bad ones?
Do you think that this would have made the reveal better? Basically, what you would have to do is to establish that Paul's scheme was backed-up by one of the gangs. In fact, I would go so far as to say that one of the gangs could have done business with Paul, on the condition that Paul targets the other gang with his bug. After that, the bugs can go to infect both gangs and eventually bystanders and other unrelated people, demonstrating that the blood feud is surpassing even the two gangs.
What do you think?
Edit: Mind you, I haven't read the book, so I don't know the context in terms of the story.
You two seemed very burnt out at the end of this vid, which you don't usually. This book did yall dirty. Look forward to a review of a book you loved. Great review.
“So much of it is dick jokes!”
As someone who spent all of my teen years preforming Shakespeare, can confirm this is true.
You guys are hitting on a problem that my husband is always complaining about with period pieces. Modern authors tend to write through a modern lens without any real understanding of what the moral values would have been for whatever group of peoples they're writing about in whatever time period they've set the story in.
This is why you don’t publish the stuff you write when you’re 20. It’s usually terrible.
I have read Chinese novels where every character has a least 3 names and ALL OF THEM are used very often and yes it is a little confusing but also so culturally immersive.
And legit if one of the names is English that makes everything so much easier - I don’t think the author should have been that worried about sometimes using a characters Chinese name.
I was debating reading this book, thank you for making the decision easier!
I'm here for the shade.
16:34 "for those who aren't nerds" I'm sorry William where do you think you are? Also let me prove my nerdship - 45:27 - according to research I've done for my writing, Russian mafia has nowhere near as strict rules about taking people in as the Italian/Japanese/Chinese mobs. That's why they grew so quickly in numbers and are still kicking strong after so many years compared to the previously mentioned.
Yay, another rant! (Needs more Katie, though)
I've come to find out if it's a media success it's a literal flop
i began reading this book in august and couldn't finish it. i read 62% of it though, i was really hoping it would get good at some point and then it just... didn't
About Russian naming. "Roman" is indeed a real Russian name, pronounced "RomAn", not "ROman"; however, there is a diminutive of that name, which is "ROma". For a young boy, especially in a different country, it's quite normal to use a diminutive all the time. However, last name "Montagov" sounds quite strange, even in real life it would raise eyebrows.
"Benedict" though? WTF?
Interestingly, in Russian translations of Shakespear, "Montegue" family are called "Montekki" instead (not sure why).
About Russian nationalism. I don't know much about Russian criminal underworld, but mostly Russian nationalism is about cultural values than about blood. At least as it is now - no idea how it was in 1920s, especially among people escaping from the civil war. Anyway, I don't think it's implausible that a Korean kid who was found by Russians at a very young age, speaks Russian, knows some cultural codes etc. would be considered "one of them".
It’s frustrating when a book has a great concept but poor execution.
Will really looks rugged :P
And 😺 great.
They seriously did no flashback when they met?! Why? No matter when,yiu need toat least show when they meet, or talk oassionate enough about it.
I got so confused listening to this, because it turns out I read the wrong book. Went through this going 'hey I don't remember this part...'. Not sure how I did that.
The only "Violent Delights" I support is the song by CHVRCHES
Why does it feel like Maria gets annoyed everytime he talks. She never really acknowledges it, she’s kinda like “yeah whatever ok anyway” and then ignores what he’s said and goes on to talk about something else. It would be nicer if it felt more like a conversation rather than a competition. Otherwise I really agreed with all the points you raised and it was really interesting to listen in.
My shakespeare is a little shaky. But im pretty sure "these violent delights, have violent ends and in their triumph die, like fire and power" translates roughly to mordern speak as "kept it in your pants romeo, cause you fall in love 3 times a week and will be chasing a new tail by friday"
Not quite a best paragraph to take your title from...
31:37 the absolute defeat when maria says "they go clink-clink" lmfaooo
Thank you for sharing your amazing reviews.
I could listen to you all day long ❤
Can you please do a review of the book "Clear and Muddy loss of love". It's a great book. I'd love to see your analysis.
Thank you 😚
A family can be your lover, your redshirt friends, and a colony of worms, and I think that's beautiful.
I was disappointed by this book, and the ending really failed for me, but I didn't have anywhere near as painful of a reading experience. Maybe because I was reading it on the metro.
oh my god I hated this book so much the pacing was the worst thing ever for me
I didn’t like it because the story was boring. The characters were over the top and one dimensional.
A river monster controlling lice-like bugs that get in your head and make you unalive yourself actually sounds super interesting...but the way it plays out sounds stupid as hell. And seems out of place in a romeo and juliet retelling...
@Unresolved Textual Tension
Can someone link that twitter thread about economic conditions and releasing books too early? That sounds very interesting
Coming from Korea which went through a really similar experience: there is a lot of nuance to personal and individual perspectives(especially at this time before the party was in power).
Currently the conservative party in Korea is pro America and intrestingly tends to have most of the elderly population that actually lived through the war and american occupation.
The liberal party is pro- north korea and china and tends to be younger people.
Hmm... I'm a $15 Patreon member. I wonder why I didn't hear that this live was happening. This would have been fun to have caught live ☺️
There's another tomorrow. Check Patreon or the group discord.
@@missallisnow I don't have access to it
@@r.leighmorgan you're a Patreon member but you don't have access to Patreon?
@@missallisnow I was working and I didn't get the chance to read The message too closely. I thought you were talking about the Patreon VIP or whatever group on discord
@@r.leighmorgan if you're a $15 member you have access to everything.
Are you guys thinking of reading Babel by R.F.Kuang? It has a very original magic system and its story explores colonialism a lot. (Not sure if well or poorly, I'm only half way through) but it would be an interesting video I think. Also it's been really talked about these last few months so you'll likely get some nice views.
Think it was discussed towards the end of the bookclub live stream for The Poppy War?
Shakespeare’s Romeo and Juliet is actually a comedy, you’re right about that. He wrote it in a way where he is making fun of young love and the melodrama and stupidity of it - remember Romeo and Juliet are like 13-14. It’s a play that uses satire to make fun of the universal experience of first love/young love. It was never meant to be viewed as an epic love story for the ages and it’s funny to me that people often misunderstand the meaning of the play and quote parts of it that are obviously satire as if its an epic declaration of love - like the balcony scene where Romeo is spying on her as she is on her balcony. Romeo’s soliloquy in this scene is overly dramatic and exaggerated in a way that is supposed to be satirical. But it’s often quoted as an epic display of love when actually its a young boy spying on a 13 year old girl and getting horny.
If nothing else, the whole bug subplot would have made me itch and triggered my triptophobia. Like ew.
The titles deserved so much better.
if I had a nickel for every time I've seen a podcast shitting on "These Violent Delights", I'd have 2 nickels. It's not a lot but its weird it happened twice
Imagine if one day the author shows up and has a discussion with the channel's hosts.
Have you guys read the other "These Violent Delights" by Micah Nemerever?
43:26 the young girl grows up to be a rebellious teenager. thats the metaphor.
The sequel is exactly the same level as the 1st book if you didn't like the 1st book you're not gonna like the sequel and and the end was met was meh at best only because she really can't commit to killing anybody
The only good Romeo and Juliet retelling is the 1990 baz leurman version and I stand by it.
Juliet smiling and looking at Romeo as he drinks the poison is burned into my memory.
Can you guys get a Twitter? I'd love to see your interactions there!
There's a solid book about Shanghai history in the early XXth century and it only skims the surface of everything that was going on. I bet the "Delights" author did very little research.
Omg pumpkin looks exactly like my mom's cat norma! Does she have thyroid issues too?? Loll
Take a shot every time maria says anyway 😅
i HAAAAATED (lower octave* haaaaaaaaaaaaated) this book. i think i finished out of sheer confusion.
To me this book felt like a fanfic through and through. The nonexistent romance that was never shown was always grating on my nerves because I don't even know these characters to care. I thought I accidentally picked up the second book instead of the first book because there's nothing much for me to care about the characters. Even if the author was waxing poetic about how tragic their love story was, I didn't give a damn because I was never shown any of those moments. And the romance was so boring because again, I know next to nothing about these characters and for some reason, the author pretends like writing how tragic everything was in some chapters is enough for the attachment.
When I first read the synopsis I'm going to be honest, I did NOT like the bug plotline. It frankly was out of place because everything was totally normal for a historical story but then bam, there are murderous bugs that will kill you and it came out of nowhere. Even after finishing the story, the reason never felt plausible enough to me. Why are there bugs and monsters? How do they even fit into this world?
Noticing that most of the complaints are explained in book 2 lol
Then the book is bad
@@TheFlowerbeast i disagree just because you yearn to know something in the first book doesn’t mean it’s all that important until the 2nd book the book isn’t bad you just don’t like it
@TheAquamarine4
And I disagree.
A book that needs a sequel to answer BASIC questions about its lore and world building is objectively a bad book
@@TheFlowerbeast except not everyone asks themselves these “basic questions” so it’s not at all objective
People who hate slow burn romance exist??
Commenting until some book series is reviewed
Shakespearian tragedies are funnier than the comedies
source -- The Reduced Shakespeare Company
if you're looking for a ya fantasy book that's actually well-written i highly recommend dark rise by cs pacat!!
definitely, anything pacat writes is gold!
Roma is a less formal form of Roman. so his name is actually Roman, and the author did do her research, so it’s fun to listen to you be loud and wrong about that for several minutes
which did it worse: LL, TVD, TSS?
This is a strange video to watch as someone whose name is Scarlet... xD
finaly, someone who recognises romeo and juliette as critique, not an ideal to strive for!!!
🎉
This book sounds weird and dumb. Glad I missed it.
And this seems to be another example of anachronistic names. Tyler. TYLER? In 1920s? Get out.
Not to be a d*** but seeing as the people of China are currently revolting against the communist party, I think it's safe to say it's not well liked.
western/american media is generally biased against communism still, so descent from chinese people against communist legislation is often spotlighted. there is no definitive opinion the entire country has of communism or their government.
Wait, William is gay???? 👁👄👁
(I thought he was straight because he specifically said he was straight in the Cyborg Tinker Video 😅)
He is straight hahaha - Maria
@@unresolvedtextualtension I'm so sorry I must of misheard him about him getting a haircut by a straight person 💀😭😂
Wait. So this is people being mad because the book isn’t their fanfic? Weird.
what?
1hr really ? Of just telling people you didn't like it ? Why couldn't you keep this video short?
The whole reason why its so long is because they tell you they dont like it, give reasons why they dont like it, covering the parts they did and didn't like, what characters they didn't like, sometimes something related to the author or anyone involved with the process, etc. I'm just halfway assuming you didn't see it cause this is their process, along with many other reviewers