Thank you so much. I’m 83 and not a sharp mindlike yours. Breaking it down like this for us is awesome. I truly appreciate what you done taking the time to breaking it down…wow. Your amazing teacher, I taught quilting for 20 years outside of Chicago.m Again thank you so much.🥰
I have been watching a ton of the Jelly Roll Race tutorials for months now. I bought what I thought was enough material to make a whole queen. Now I know that I have enough material, and exactly how I am going to make it (JR Drag Race ala Jordan Fabrics), thanks to this video. I can even customize it, and still have enough. While the tutorials show you how to sew a JRR, none of them show the math. You did a wonderful job showing and describing every aspect of the formula, and how to put it all together. I cannot tell you how grateful I am.
Thank you on giving this formula for custom jelly roll strips. Because I'm getting ready to make a jelly roll strip quilt. and was trying to figure out, how many strips to cut at 4-1/2". so now I have a mathematical formula that I can figure out. I just need to go back and watch it. before cutting my strips thank you so much.
Thank you, thank you, thank you! Math is NOT my forte. I also appreciate you writing it as well as telling us everything because I am a very visual learner. Again, thank you so much for taking the time to do this video.
Aw you are so welcome! I'm very visual too - sometimes I worry that I overdo the explaining... but then I get a comment like yours and I know it was worth the time and effort to make sure it is easy to understand 💕
Isn’t this how to figure out border and/or binding yardage? You made it very understandable. Love how you broke it down by size and width of strips. Thank you! Love your channel.
Girl ...here i,was surfing looking for another idea on how to get my craft room under control. We recently moved into my childhood home and so we've inherited all my family furniture too. In definitely overwhelmed..but learning to part slowly with things I can't use. So I was watching your TH-cam on your storage bins and room make over because I have a lg or decent size craft room..which is a disaster right now....and I really appreciated your honesty in the clutter, it's real life. Well then this video pops up..I'm kinda interested so I kept watching....I've always wanted to quilt but never had any info on how it works. I'm an accountant w/ a degree and I totally followed your math less, Quilt Style! IM HOOKED, a new subscriber and possibly a new quilter.You give such great advice and encouragement! Ps: I HAVE A TON OF CRAFTS AND FABRICS!! I could be my own craft and fabric store lmao!! Thank you for all your advice and help!!😘😘😘
Hi Brande!! I'm so glad you found me! You sound like such a busy girl! I wish you luck with all your sorting and I hope you make space for a craft room in your new/old home!!
Since I am using a jelly roll, which I did Not know when I bought it, only had 20 strips in it. I added strips from scraps I had, and cut from fat quarters that I added to this collection. Since I had to add so many, I think I'll just be consistent, and cut the original jelly roll strips in half to more match the others. I will be adding white squares between them. It's a Christmas theme, and it will probably look a bit busier than I originally hoped, but, I just want to make it easier on myself, and get it done. I've been sitting on this project for awhile. I don't know how it will be quilted yet, maybe big stitched with crochet cotton, maybe gentle curvy lines on the machine.
I have been looking for this formula for a long time. The math isn't hard once you have a plan. Thank you so much for posting this. I already finished my first race quilt top.
I combined a jelly roll race and a parquet pattern together. I just finished a queen sized quilt and a matching lap quilt. 1/3 yard from 28 different fabrics. 5 strips each fabrics or 140 strips. Average length of each strips around 43”. I sewn each strip end to end into one long approx 6080” strip. Sew the beginning and end together to form a two wide strip, cut once you get to the middle. Now you’ll have two strip wide by approx 3040”. Again sew this double strip into a four wide strip and you’ll have a approx 1520” wide band strip. Again cut when you get to the middle. Cut this four strip band into equal 8” blocks thus making the parquet pattern. I now have 188 parquet blocks. Arrange the blocks into a queen or king sized quilt top. I’ve made 15 queen sized of various color themes in the past two years. I’ve watched videos like hers here but I don’t want that seam right int the middle of the quilt top. My formula can be done smaller or bigger depending if you want shams to match or some throw pillows to match also.
Thank for this. This will help me so much! I am so new to this. I have sewn for years but no quilts. I crochet blankets and now I want to quilt to save time. You are amazing!
Love your explainations...and the math. I sure dint like the math. I am watching your 2021 explanations for the jelly roll quilts, and I can't go back to sign up for your beginning classes on this. In the past, I bought about five or six different jelly rolls, and I have never quite understood how to put them together even to make the simplest quilt. So thank you very much.
I really enjoy ur videos,, u know how to simplify everything and I really appreciate that,, I’m new , very new at making quilts,, thank u so much and plz keep the videos coming,, hugs and kisses ,, Sharon - ky
I appreciate you sharing the basics. I've been quilting for 45+ years. I still struggle with the math. So thank you for taking time to walk us through the calculations.
Thank you for the Jelly Roll series. I haven't purchased much pre-cuts before, but this gives me inspiration! Looking forward to the Virtual Jelly Race on the 14th
I think it might be messier but I would like to sew all of the jelly roll straps together that I need to make the quilt. Then I would have several rows that are super long. My way of thinking is that I wouldn't have 2 or 3 or 4 different sections. Just another way to eliminate the different sections. Love the ideas and math, I do math in my head!
I am new to quilting and have made three quilts using jelly rolls. I really like using them. But I do have a tendency that if I don’t understand the logic behind the project I just freeze and don’t do it. I really want to make big quilts, that’s why I’m asking about the three segments to make them.
Math for me is HARD…but, I agree completely with you that a bit of extra time spent ahead of time on the math makes for an easier time while quilting. Hard but worth it. Also, it didn’t occur to me to make my own strips in a wider width to make a custom jelly roll quilt…o might have to try that
Well, there's a big DUH!!! I never considered cutting the strips in half instead of separating the long ones and dividing the roll. YIKES... Thx again for your help in clearing up my thinking.
I adore your you tube videos. Thank you for your wonderful videos. Your jelly toll math was very helpful. You mentioned that you have classes. Do you still do them? I would love to get more info please
Hi Christie, thoroughly enjoying your videos. Regarding the bigger quilts why do we need to she three sets? I understand the math but just curious on the three sets. Thanks.
The shortest answer I can give you has to do with the way you fold the quilt in half and sew it together, fold in half, sew it together again and again -- to keep the lines going horizontal like most jelly rolls are, the quilt needs to be wider than taller.... and traditional jelly roll method ends up making a very very tall quilt instead of a very wide quilt. I hope that makes sense 😘😘
I’m mathematically challenged, so I was excited to see your video. Thanks for sharing! I guess I’ll have to pause the vid and write it all down though because I can’t see the download link for the information that you mentioned.. am I missing it, or it is not there? Please someone help..
WOWSA! Christan, you are the bomb, gurl! Rae here- (3/27/22) I was JUST trying to figure the math for this VERY quilt in a Full Sized Bed! TYTYTY, hugs and lovies
Hey Kristen I have a question. You gave some really good advise on the sizes of wuilts using strips. My question is based on that. What about blocks. Meaning a 2x2, 3x3, 4x4
Sorry it sent message before I was finished. Or is that just the rule for jelly rolls. I work with fat quarters and would like to find a math formula for those as well.
Hey Kristin! I have a question. The requirements for a king size jelly roll race quilt are 3 jelly rolls. My question is do you have to cut off some of the first strip of all three jelly rolls or just the first one? Love your videos and appreciate your tutorials.
I would cut the first jelly roll of every single one. It helps make sure the strips shift around a little more to allow more variation! have fun with your king size quilt!
I want to make a Baby Quilt Jelly Roll from yardage of material. Could you please tell me the total amount of material I need to purchase? I am making it 32.5” x 50”. I did watch your video and am still not sure of the total amount. I like your idea of the strips being 3.5”. Thank you so much!!
When you cut your own do you just pick from fabrics you like or do you go with a fabric line of coordinated fabric like would be together in a jelly roll?
You can do whatever you like. some people just do bits of random and scraps. Other people will do a specific coordinated stash. Each and every jelly roll quilt you make will be unique!
The quilt I would like to try make says 1 jelly roll. If I wanted to make with fabric how much fabric would I need. I'm in the UK and and the quilt is US size beds.
Would ir work out, to do one less sew and cut, and have 2 not so long up and down, but wider sections, so you put top and base together, without a straight vertical centre seam? You could put half of the 3rd set on the right of top section, and the other on the left of base section?
This is something that can mostly be explained while you're working on the project, but you'll eventually find that your piece will end up really tall and skinny instead of shorter/wider to get the right length. This only applies if you want the traditional horizontal stripes. It could work if you wanted to try having a vertical stripe quilt, I suppose? I'll see if I can work in a video soon to explain this in more detail. It is a question that I get a lot. 🥰
This is my question also because I want to do one in 3 and a half inch strips from scraps to make a queen and I do get the method of doing it in sections but would love to make one continuous strip and just keep sewing with the regular method instead of dividing into sections even if it means adding borders. Thankyou😊
What if I want to make a twin sized quilt, and instead of making two panels, I measure the first strip and cut it at 64", then continue to add a row and cut at 64" until I have 88" long? Would that work?
Yes, they can get very large to cover the whole bed and the sides. I've made up to a queen sized jelly roll strip and it was a very large project indeed!
Hi Marion! I have several classes! You can view them and sign up to be notified for the ones that aren't enrolling right now here: learn.iseestarsquilting.com/store Thank you so much for watching!
Ok I went rogue … I have no idea where my math went wrong. Let’s just say I don’t have to worry about running short. Ever again (as long as my other fabrics coordinate). No wonder the lady at the fabric store laughed at me.
LOL I've been there before too. Once I wanted to make a queen sized jelly roll quilt and before I even thought about sitting down and doing the math part, I just started cutting and hoping I had enough. I soon realized I had enough for a FONT AND A BACK to the queen sized quilt, but at that point it was too late to turn back lol It's ok. I've been there too!
iseestarsquilting.com/jelly-roll-quilt-size-guide/ Here is the link to the post with all of it written down! Hope that helps you find what you were looking for
For a standard Jelly roll quilt... the total number of inches your first long strip will be is 1600" from end to end... however you decide to divide up that number between 20" and 40" strips is your choice!
Thank you so much. I’m 83 and not a sharp mindlike yours. Breaking it down like this for us is awesome. I truly appreciate what you done taking the time to breaking it down…wow. Your amazing teacher, I taught quilting for 20 years outside of Chicago.m Again thank you so much.🥰
Glad it was helpful! Thank you for watching and being so kind.
I have been watching a ton of the Jelly Roll Race tutorials for months now. I bought what I thought was enough material to make a whole queen. Now I know that I have enough material, and exactly how I am going to make it (JR Drag Race ala Jordan Fabrics), thanks to this video. I can even customize it, and still have enough. While the tutorials show you how to sew a JRR, none of them show the math. You did a wonderful job showing and describing every aspect of the formula, and how to put it all together. I cannot tell you how grateful I am.
It is my pleasure.
Thank you on giving this formula for custom jelly roll strips. Because I'm getting ready to make a jelly roll strip quilt. and was trying to figure out, how many strips to cut at 4-1/2". so now I have a mathematical formula that I can figure out. I just need to go back and watch it. before cutting my strips thank you so much.
You've totally got this, Marion! :) It is going to be beautiful!
Thank you, thank you, thank you! Math is NOT my forte. I also appreciate you writing it as well as telling us everything because I am a very visual learner. Again, thank you so much for taking the time to do this video.
Aw you are so welcome! I'm very visual too - sometimes I worry that I overdo the explaining... but then I get a comment like yours and I know it was worth the time and effort to make sure it is easy to understand 💕
Isn’t this how to figure out border and/or binding yardage? You made it very understandable. Love how you broke it down by size and width of strips. Thank you! Love your channel.
Thank you so much, that is so kind.
Girl ...here i,was surfing looking for another idea on how to get my craft room under control. We recently moved into my childhood home and so we've inherited all my family furniture too. In definitely overwhelmed..but learning to part slowly with things I can't use. So
I was watching your TH-cam on your storage bins and room make over because I have a lg or decent size craft room..which is a disaster right now....and I really appreciated your honesty in the clutter, it's real life. Well then this video pops up..I'm kinda interested so I kept watching....I've always wanted to quilt but never had any info on how it works. I'm an accountant w/ a degree and I totally followed your math less, Quilt Style! IM HOOKED, a new subscriber and possibly a new quilter.You give such great advice and encouragement!
Ps:
I HAVE A TON OF CRAFTS AND FABRICS!! I could be my own craft and fabric store lmao!! Thank you for all your advice and help!!😘😘😘
Hi Brande!! I'm so glad you found me! You sound like such a busy girl! I wish you luck with all your sorting and I hope you make space for a craft room in your new/old home!!
Since I am using a jelly roll, which I did Not know when I bought it, only had 20 strips in it. I added strips from scraps I had, and cut from fat quarters that I added to this collection. Since I had to add so many, I think I'll just be consistent, and cut the original jelly roll strips in half to more match the others. I will be adding white squares between them. It's a Christmas theme, and it will probably look a bit busier than I originally hoped, but, I just want to make it easier on myself, and get it done. I've been sitting on this project for awhile. I don't know how it will be quilted yet, maybe big stitched with crochet cotton, maybe gentle curvy lines on the machine.
ooh that really sounds beautiful! Good luck with your quilt Wendy! 🥰
I have been looking for this formula for a long time. The math isn't hard once you have a plan. Thank you so much for posting this. I already finished my first race quilt top.
That's wonderful! I'm glad it was helpful 😘😘
I combined a jelly roll race and a parquet pattern together. I just finished a queen sized quilt and a matching lap quilt. 1/3 yard from 28 different fabrics. 5 strips each fabrics or 140 strips. Average length of each strips around 43”. I sewn each strip end to end into one long approx 6080” strip. Sew the beginning and end together to form a two wide strip, cut once you get to the middle. Now you’ll have two strip wide by approx 3040”. Again sew this double strip into a four wide strip and you’ll have a approx 1520” wide band strip. Again cut when you get to the middle. Cut this four strip band into equal 8” blocks thus making the parquet pattern. I now have 188 parquet blocks. Arrange the blocks into a queen or king sized quilt top. I’ve made 15 queen sized of various color themes in the past two years. I’ve watched videos like hers here but I don’t want that seam right int the middle of the quilt top. My formula can be done smaller or bigger depending if you want shams to match or some throw pillows to match also.
Love your creativity!
Thank for this. This will help me so much! I am so new to this. I have sewn for years but no quilts. I crochet blankets and now I want to quilt to save time. You are amazing!
Glad it was helpful! I love that you crochet, and I would love to see pictures.
Love your explainations...and the math. I sure dint like the math. I am watching your 2021 explanations for the jelly roll quilts, and I can't go back to sign up for your beginning classes on this.
In the past, I bought about five or six different jelly rolls, and I have never quite understood how to put them together even to make the simplest quilt. So thank you very much.
Thank You!! I’m a new quilter!😅 You are the best!!❤
Welcome Donna, and thank you. That is so sweet of you!
Even going rogue requires a plan! Love it! Thank you for the magic formula.
I really enjoy ur videos,, u know how to simplify everything and I really appreciate that,, I’m new , very new at making quilts,, thank u so much and plz keep the videos coming,, hugs and kisses ,, Sharon - ky
You are so welcome! I'm glad I was able to help!
I appreciate you sharing the basics. I've been quilting for 45+ years. I still struggle with the math. So thank you for taking time to walk us through the calculations.
you're very welcome!
70 and I can not either lol🤔😀
Thank you for the Jelly Roll series. I haven't purchased much pre-cuts before, but this gives me inspiration! Looking forward to the Virtual Jelly Race on the 14th
It's the 13th!! I'm not sure where you live, but I dont want to take any chance that you'll arrive fashionably late and miss it 😆
@@ISeeStarsQuilting - thank you for that!!
I think it might be messier but I would like to sew all of the jelly roll straps together that I need to make the quilt. Then I would have several rows that are super long. My way of thinking is that I wouldn't have 2 or 3 or 4 different sections. Just another way to eliminate the different sections. Love the ideas and math, I do math in my head!
Thank you for the information! Your video is just what I have been looking for!
Glad it was helpful!
I am new to quilting and have made three quilts using jelly rolls. I really like using them. But I do have a tendency that if I don’t understand the logic behind the project I just freeze and don’t do it. I really want to make big quilts, that’s why I’m asking about the three segments to make them.
great explanation on how to do the math. Thanks!!
Glad it was helpful! You're very welcome!
Thank you for doing the math!! I just need to figure out how to make the three sections of the king size quilt go horizontal instead of vertical.
You are most welcome, I can't wait to hear how you did.
Math for me is HARD…but, I agree completely with you that a bit of extra time spent ahead of time on the math makes for an easier time while quilting. Hard but worth it. Also, it didn’t occur to me to make my own strips in a wider width to make a custom jelly roll quilt…o might have to try that
Yes! You should try it! It does have a different feel if you're working on a custom piece and cutting your own strips
Well, there's a big DUH!!! I never considered cutting the strips in half instead of separating the long ones and dividing the roll. YIKES... Thx again for your help in clearing up my thinking.
You're welcome! We all learn and are inspired by what other quilters have to share 😘
I adore your you tube videos. Thank you for your wonderful videos. Your jelly toll math was very helpful. You mentioned that you have classes. Do you still do them? I would love to get more info please
I have online classes that are on-demand style. you can view them here: www.stitch.academy 🥰 Thank you for your kind words Jeanette!
I literally went t my quilt store yesterday WTH this exact question and SHE DID NOT know!! Lol. Thank you
I'm so happy that I was able to answer it for you 😘
Thank you for this video! I too love jelly rolls!!!!!!! Actually I love all precuts😊
Hi Christie, thoroughly enjoying your videos. Regarding the bigger quilts why do we need to she three sets? I understand the math but just curious on the three sets. Thanks.
The shortest answer I can give you has to do with the way you fold the quilt in half and sew it together, fold in half, sew it together again and again -- to keep the lines going horizontal like most jelly rolls are, the quilt needs to be wider than taller.... and traditional jelly roll method ends up making a very very tall quilt instead of a very wide quilt. I hope that makes sense 😘😘
Great dissemination of knowledge. Love it. Thank you🌸
Glad you enjoyed it! Thank you for watching 🤩🤩
I just started watching your videos and I am excited to hear you do a class ❤️❤️❤️
Yay! Thank you!
I’m mathematically challenged, so I was excited to see your video. Thanks for sharing! I guess I’ll have to pause the vid and write it all down though because I can’t see the download link for the information that you mentioned.. am I missing it, or it is not there? Please someone help..
Thank you for your kind words! I'm so happy to hear you enjoyed the video. 🥰
WOWSA! Christan, you are the bomb, gurl! Rae here- (3/27/22) I was JUST trying to figure the math for this VERY quilt in a Full Sized Bed! TYTYTY, hugs and lovies
Awesome! I'm so glad that it came to you at a good time!
How many jello rolls would you need for a full-size? Thank you so much 😊
I have it all written out in this bog post here: iseestarsquilting.com/jelly-roll-quilt-size-guide/ Thanks for watching!
Hey Kristen I have a question. You gave some really good advise on the sizes of wuilts using strips. My question is based on that. What about blocks. Meaning a 2x2, 3x3, 4x4
Sorry it sent message before I was finished. Or is that just the rule for jelly rolls. I work with fat quarters and would like to find a math formula for those as well.
Good old graph paper is my favorite way of figuring out other quilt sizes and how much I need to finish the size that I want.
When can we sign up for this wonderful class. ?
Hey Kristin! I have a question. The requirements for a king size jelly roll race quilt are 3 jelly rolls. My question is do you have to cut off some of the first strip of all three jelly rolls or just the first one? Love your videos and appreciate your tutorials.
I would cut the first jelly roll of every single one. It helps make sure the strips shift around a little more to allow more variation! have fun with your king size quilt!
Excellent and clear instructions !
Many thanks!
Amazing work. Very educational ❤️
Thank you! Glad it was helpful to you! 🥳
This was so helpful. Thank you!
Yay! I'm so glad it helped!! 🥳🥳
I want to make a Baby Quilt Jelly Roll from yardage of material. Could you please tell me the total amount of material I need to purchase? I am making it 32.5” x 50”. I did watch your video and am still not sure of the total amount. I like your idea of the strips being 3.5”. Thank you so much!!
I know I’m late to the party but where do I find your math formulas
I'm trying to sew a queen size. I notice my strips are going horizontal, I prefer vertical. Help! 😮
Great explanation!
I'm so glad it was helpful!
Excellent teaching!
Glad it was helpful!
How to figure yardage if you do your own cutting strips from made up formula. Thank you.
This blog post that I wrote has the formula written out for you to calculate using your own strips: iseestarsquilting.com/jelly-roll-quilt-size-guide/
Uou are amazing! I have downloaded this for quick reference!
Awesome! Thank you!
Excellent Thank you just what I needed
You're welcome! I'm glad it helped!
When you cut your own do you just pick from fabrics you like or do you go with a fabric line of coordinated fabric like would be together in a jelly roll?
You can do whatever you like. some people just do bits of random and scraps. Other people will do a specific coordinated stash. Each and every jelly roll quilt you make will be unique!
The quilt I would like to try make says 1 jelly roll. If I wanted to make with fabric how much fabric would I need. I'm in the UK and and the quilt is US size beds.
1 jelly roll is equal to 43(ish - some have 40, some have 42) strips of fabric that are width of fabric or 40".
Awesome information - thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
Would ir work out, to do one less sew and cut, and have 2 not so long up and down, but wider sections, so you put top and base together, without a straight vertical centre seam? You could put half of the 3rd set on the right of top section, and the other on the left of base section?
I love your thinking. It would be a good thing to try out 🥰
This was very helpful, thank you 😊
So glad it was helpful! 🙌🙌
Does your Numbers of rows needs to be divided by 2, 4, 8, 16, 32 in order to be able to do the racing jelly roll quilt??
It needs to be the length of your quilt divided by the width of your strips. That will help you figure out how many rows your quilt will have
Why do we need to make 2 or 3 sections and piece together? Is it to hard to do it like a regular jelly roll race?
This is something that can mostly be explained while you're working on the project, but you'll eventually find that your piece will end up really tall and skinny instead of shorter/wider to get the right length. This only applies if you want the traditional horizontal stripes. It could work if you wanted to try having a vertical stripe quilt, I suppose? I'll see if I can work in a video soon to explain this in more detail. It is a question that I get a lot. 🥰
This is my question also because I want to do one in 3 and a half inch strips from scraps to make a queen and I do get the method of doing it in sections but would love to make one continuous strip and just keep sewing with the regular method instead of dividing into sections even if it means adding borders. Thankyou😊
Than you Kristen😊
It is my pleasure.
What if I want to make a twin sized quilt, and instead of making two panels, I measure the first strip and cut it at 64", then continue to add a row and cut at 64" until I have 88" long? Would that work?
It would essentially... But you wouldn't get the same effect of the colors being random and pieces different sizes
Ok really awesome!
I'm glad you like it.
When is your quilting class.?
I have a virtual Quilting Retreat coming up at the end of September. You can check it out here: iseestarsquilting.com/starlight-quilting-retreat/
I love your videos!
thank you! 😘😘
thank u so much
My pleasure!
Those sizes are so they hang on each side? I never made them that big 🤔
Yes, they can get very large to cover the whole bed and the sides. I've made up to a queen sized jelly roll strip and it was a very large project indeed!
I so want to do your class please notify me.🤗
Hi Marion! I have several classes! You can view them and sign up to be notified for the ones that aren't enrolling right now here: learn.iseestarsquilting.com/store Thank you so much for watching!
But if the sections were quilted separately it would be easier.
Ok I went rogue … I have no idea where my math went wrong. Let’s just say I don’t have to worry about running short. Ever again (as long as my other fabrics coordinate). No wonder the lady at the fabric store laughed at me.
LOL I've been there before too. Once I wanted to make a queen sized jelly roll quilt and before I even thought about sitting down and doing the math part, I just started cutting and hoping I had enough. I soon realized I had enough for a FONT AND A BACK to the queen sized quilt, but at that point it was too late to turn back lol It's ok. I've been there too!
What is wrong with the metric system? Just asking for a friend.
Nothing is wrong with the metric system. 🤷🏼♀️ I'm in America
"not that hard, right?" 😳 ...i couldn't understand any of it 😕 I'll try again later, maybe it will stink in
You can do this. Let me know when you try again.
I can't find the link to where you said you had this all written down for us? Maybe I misunderstood! Can you help?
iseestarsquilting.com/jelly-roll-quilt-size-guide/ Here is the link to the post with all of it written down! Hope that helps you find what you were looking for
What if we want to use a mixture of 40" and 20"inch strips then what would be the measurements?
For a standard Jelly roll quilt... the total number of inches your first long strip will be is 1600" from end to end... however you decide to divide up that number between 20" and 40" strips is your choice!
You are so cute
Aw thank you!
You lost me with all the math.
try not to overthink it :) Sewing can just be for fun too