Colorado frostline is 48in if I'm not mistaken. There's no way someone is digging thag deep for wodden posts that will rot within what ? Like about 5-10 years right ?
Sir im about to start a new job at fenceworks and they use concrete with gravel in wheelbarrows. How woukd you reccommend i mix it to be effective for frost heave? Is it even possible with this company's method?
I’m sorry I couldn’t hear exactly what you said about the concrete. Do I have to pour the concrete on the whole first then use water and mix it in there?
"This fence will fail if we don't follow those steps." ... Except filling in the tops of holes with dirt will rot the bottom of the posts. Every fence contractor thinks they know best and it's about 50/50 on this issue across the board. It's the great fence conundrum. POSSIBLY deal with frost heave, or deal with much faster rot keeping the posts in contact with the soil. The question of the ages.
Do you put any rocks underneath the pressure treated posts so water can drain off of it? Even being pressure treated, water will eventually destroy it.
@@mrfenceacademy Not that rocks would "keep it dry" but one person said to put the post on some rocks in the hole first because that way water doesn't pool up and sit on the bottom of the post that way. Over the years your post will last longer if it's not just sitting in water all the time.
@@terry7893 that is simply not the case I have pulled thousands of post without rocks at the bottom none of them have ever had water sitting in the bottom under the post. We have set nearly a quarter million post over 30 years and have never put gravel at the bottom.
@@mrfenceacademy Wow! That's crazy because the "standard way" of doing fence posts has always been to put gravel in the bottom of the hole before dropping the post in. If you've got the real world experience with a quarter of a million posts over a 30yr period, I'm going with your way 100%. I always hated messing with the gravel anyway. Priceless Information!! Thank you!
What do you do if you have so many big rocks that it's practically impossible to get the depth that you need. I'm currently down about 24" and am hitting large rocks that basically cover the entire hole.
@@mrfenceacademySo you just pour some qickcrete down the hole dry and let the ground provide the water? If so, do you put a layer underneath the post? Also, i'm in NW Wisconsin and have about 100ft of fence I need to do- how far below the grade should I fill the qickcrete? No sense spending anymore than necessary... Thank you for this upload!
@@SEILLC no needs to put concrete under it and yes let moisture set it up. Make sure to compact the concrete with a digging bar as you will the hole. I have many videos on this
Okay one more question for you the short picket your using in the straigh away video how do you get it to stay there ? Do you have screws through it or something ? To make it sit where it needs to be?
I live way down south ( Houston ,Tx ) I’ve just installed 10ft 4x4 posts 36” in the ground and about 10-12 wide hole and filled with concrete to the top and sloped away from post . Wish I seen this video before I did this . I was worried about soil contacting the wood … will I be okay ?
Those are the best sound methods until you get a customer that wants to see the concrete at the top of the hole. Some people want it and i dont know why. Im a 3rd generation fence man, my dad did it for over 50 years. We are in Rhode Island and SE Massachusetts.
So does all this work without being below the frost line? I'm about to start setting my posts but our frost line 8 feet. And hell no I'm not digging each hole 8 feet down.
So that’s an interesting conversation, I have spent a lot of time studying frost heave around the country and noticed very little frost heave problems in the extremely cold parts of the country even up into Canada. I think it’s the frost cycle that’s the biggest problem. In your part of the country with a 8’ frost line you probably experience one cycle or two in a season, where the ground freezes and then thaws out then gets really wet and freezes again. I have observed throughout the Midwest a huge frost heave issue. Primarily in the parts of the country that have several frost line cycles in a year plus wet ground. It’s not the temperature that heaves the post but wet ground that freezes. Frozen ground with little moisture does not heave post necessarily. For instance think about water pipes if we let them freeze with water in them the water expands and burst the pipes. That is what is happening in the ground except in the opposite direction. The water freezing and expanding in the ground pushes inward against the post footing as the ground expands. If you do not have proper hole depth, shape and compaction in the ground it is really easy for the ground to squeeze against the slug and push it out of the ground like and snow cone. As it does this there is a slight void created under the post as the ground thaws debris and dirt is carried under the slug. Preventing the post to settle back down where it started. Now to make matters worse in some parts of the country this cycle could happen 20 times in one season. So if you are in area of the country with one deep freeze for the season it would take 20 years to see the same cycles as other parts of the country see in one. I am not an engineer or a soil geologist t just a fence geek.
Find out because I live in Upper Michigan and it took many years but my deck is a nightmare due to posts popping up! I'm overwhelmed. I don't know how I'll fix it without tearing it all down. It surrounds an above ground pool and is also fenced in. Don't let this happen to you. Frontline must've been badly underestimated.
If you were to securely bolt a 1/4" Thick 6"x6" Plate to the bottom of your post before filling the hole with concrete, surely the plate covered with concrete would stop the post being pushed up?
Exactly the problem I'm facing now. I live in Nebraska too and the whole east section of my fence has come up about 3 to 4 inches in the few years its been in. Im sure the installers just slapped it in and figure it will last a good couple years, or atleast until the installation warranty is up.
![สาวเมืองเพชร - ธีเดช ทองอภิชาติ [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kEt7F9PvO3I/mqdefault.jpg)
Shoot, wish I'd watched this. Flaring the bottom is a great idea. This guy is the fence master.
Thank you for all the great information Sir . I appreciate it.
Use can use just about any store bought brand it will just require a little more tamping
Colorado frostline is 48in if I'm not mistaken. There's no way someone is digging thag deep for wodden posts that will rot within what ? Like about 5-10 years right ?
Good morning, as you have a custom blend, is there a similar product we could/should use that could be recommended without water
Can post heave happen if your post hole was dug through the middle of shale beds?
Sir im about to start a new job at fenceworks and they use concrete with gravel in wheelbarrows. How woukd you reccommend i mix it to be effective for frost heave? Is it even possible with this company's method?
I’m sorry I couldn’t hear exactly what you said about the concrete. Do I have to pour the concrete on the whole first then use water and mix it in there?
Dry pack, no water.
Have you ever seen frost heave push a vertical toilet drain pipe upwards?
"This fence will fail if we don't follow those steps." ... Except filling in the tops of holes with dirt will rot the bottom of the posts. Every fence contractor thinks they know best and it's about 50/50 on this issue across the board. It's the great fence conundrum. POSSIBLY deal with frost heave, or deal with much faster rot keeping the posts in contact with the soil. The question of the ages.
Do you put any rocks underneath the pressure treated posts so water can drain off of it? Even being pressure treated, water will eventually destroy it.
No rocks will not keep it dry it’s going to get wet period. Wood fence is projected to last 15 to 20 years if you want more than that but vinyl
@@mrfenceacademy Not that rocks would "keep it dry" but one person said to put the post on some rocks in the hole first because that way water doesn't pool up and sit on the bottom of the post that way. Over the years your post will last longer if it's not just sitting in water all the time.
@@terry7893 that is simply not the case I have pulled thousands of post without rocks at the bottom none of them have ever had water sitting in the bottom under the post.
We have set nearly a quarter million post over 30 years and have never put gravel at the bottom.
@@mrfenceacademy Wow! That's crazy because the "standard way" of doing fence posts has always been to put gravel in the bottom of the hole before dropping the post in. If you've got the real world experience with a quarter of a million posts over a 30yr period, I'm going with your way 100%. I always hated messing with the gravel anyway. Priceless Information!! Thank you!
What do you do if you have so many big rocks that it's practically impossible to get the depth that you need. I'm currently down about 24" and am hitting large rocks that basically cover the entire hole.
Bigger equipment or core into rocks
Bust up the old footings. Sometimes it's easier than making new holes. Sounds like your situation is one of those times.
12 inch frost line is nothing..
Ok so Lowes and Home Depot dont sell Dry Pack Concrete that I can find. Where do I get it and is it more expensive than normal high strength concrete?
We have ours made you don’t have to do that you can use standard Quickcrete or any of those brands it just will require more work to compact it.
@@mrfenceacademy Awesome tip! I've always done my own fencing and never knew this. Thanks!!
@@mrfenceacademySo you just pour some qickcrete down the hole dry and let the ground provide the water? If so, do you put a layer underneath the post? Also, i'm in NW Wisconsin and have about 100ft of fence I need to do- how far below the grade should I fill the qickcrete? No sense spending anymore than necessary...
Thank you for this upload!
@@SEILLC no needs to put concrete under it and yes let moisture set it up. Make sure to compact the concrete with a digging bar as you will the hole. I have many videos on this
@@shawnking112 I appreciate the reply!
Well damn. I just built a fence at my house and filled concrete to grade. Anything I can do now to improve the situation?
not now
I’m in Bolingbrook, IL, and am struggling to find info on our frost line. Where should I be looking for this information?
Call up a couple local fencing or deck companies, they'll likely know
Okay one more question for you the short picket your using in the straigh away video how do you get it to stay there ? Do you have screws through it or something ? To make it sit where it needs to be?
It just sits there
I live way down south ( Houston ,Tx ) I’ve just installed 10ft 4x4 posts 36” in the ground and about 10-12 wide hole and filled with concrete to the top and sloped away from post . Wish I seen this video before I did this . I was worried about soil contacting the wood … will I be okay ?
You will be fine for 15-20 years
th-cam.com/video/_jLaeJYuI-s/w-d-xo.html
Those are the best sound methods until you get a customer that wants to see the concrete at the top of the hole. Some people want it and i dont know why. Im a 3rd generation fence man, my dad did it for over 50 years. We are in Rhode Island and SE Massachusetts.
great advice, thanks
What is Your Area?
So does all this work without being below the frost line? I'm about to start setting my posts but our frost line 8 feet. And hell no I'm not digging each hole 8 feet down.
So that’s an interesting conversation, I have spent a lot of time studying frost heave around the country and noticed very little frost heave problems in the extremely cold parts of the country even up into Canada. I think it’s the frost cycle that’s the biggest problem. In your part of the country with a 8’ frost line you probably experience one cycle or two in a season, where the ground freezes and then thaws out then gets really wet and freezes again.
I have observed throughout the Midwest a huge frost heave issue. Primarily in the parts of the country that have several frost line cycles in a year plus wet ground.
It’s not the temperature that heaves the post but wet ground that freezes. Frozen ground with little moisture does not heave post necessarily.
For instance think about water pipes if we let them freeze with water in them the water expands and burst the pipes. That is what is happening in the ground except in the opposite direction. The water freezing and expanding in the ground pushes inward against the post footing as the ground expands. If you do not have proper hole depth, shape and compaction in the ground it is really easy for the ground to squeeze against the slug and push it out of the ground like and snow cone. As it does this there is a slight void created under the post as the ground thaws debris and dirt is carried under the slug. Preventing the post to settle back down where it started.
Now to make matters worse in some parts of the country this cycle could happen 20 times in one season. So if you are in area of the country with one deep freeze for the season it would take 20 years to see the same cycles as other parts of the country see in one.
I am not an engineer or a soil geologist t just a fence geek.
Find out because I live in Upper Michigan and it took many years but my deck is a nightmare due to posts popping up! I'm overwhelmed. I don't know how I'll fix it without tearing it all down. It surrounds an above ground pool and is also fenced in. Don't let this happen to you. Frontline must've been badly underestimated.
@@ms79taI also live in Michigan. I was going to go with 4x4x8. Now I am going to go with 4x4x10s.
If you were to securely bolt a 1/4" Thick 6"x6" Plate to the bottom of your post before filling the hole with concrete, surely the plate covered with concrete would stop the post being pushed up?
We live in Nebraska and the frost line is 4’. None of the fence people dig that deep. Any idea why?
They just don’t know
@@mrfenceacademy wow comprehensive response
Too much work to go down 4'... Then the post would need to be 16 feet long to be cut off. So much work for a problem 10-20 years out lol
Exactly the problem I'm facing now. I live in Nebraska too and the whole east section of my fence has come up about 3 to 4 inches in the few years its been in. Im sure the installers just slapped it in and figure it will last a good couple years, or atleast until the installation warranty is up.
Its then she realized that mistakes had been made 😅
you talk too much
Who's he talking to!!!
LOL
I'm guessing he's instructing all the people wearing blue shirts who were digging at the very end of the video...academy attendees?