"The apology is just because I'm sorry that's happened, I'm sorry you got passed." Hahahahaha. Probably some of the best improvised bullshit I've ever heard.
Yes, but there is a small difference. It was illegal when Ferrari did it. And it was illegal, because of Ferrari itself with that Austria 2002 GP shame.
What happened at Spa was not like this, Eddie knew in those conditions it was way to risky for ralf and Damon to race, so he played it safe and took a 1-2 for the race. And Ralf was only 5 sec. a lap quicker in that sector because Damon was very cautious there. They basically had the same pace.
Damon was the one who sugested Eddie that the Jordans should not race. Eddie is completely against team orders, and he just did that because Hill sugested it
Eddie was in favor of those team orders at Spa because it was keeping the race result the same, no interference, and Ralf was only 5 sec. Quicker one sector because Damon was extra careful, he later matched Damon's pace. I like Eddie's call because it kept his drivers, marshals, and spectators safe.
@@guygadbois7618 What is he wrong about? This race wasn't anywhere near the title decider, it was in the middle of the season where everything could still happen. What happened here wasn't F1. If this was F1, they'd let Massa keep the lead and let Alonso fight for it.
I feel bad for Massa because I think even after his accident he still could have gone on to win races if he had the team behind him, his self -confidence seemed to already have been shaken by what had happened the year before and I think this was a bigger blow to the morale
After his incident it was pretty hard to return,this win could have boosted him up,but yeah...as a fan of ferrari they get on my nerves with some managment
151kbar151 Eh idk in his situation (assuming you're talking about Spa 1998) that was a pretty fair and smart decision. Jordan needed that win, and it was bad weather so it would be pretty risky to let them race. This is the exact opposite.
in your circumstances, this is also smart decision because Alonso was racing for championship and they didn't want to loose points (and i'm saying this as Felipe's fan)
151kbar151 Yeah that's true, but Ferrari is Ferrari, wins are not scarce for them (well at that time they weren't) whereas Jordan was a mid-field team where a win would be a huge achievement for them.
Alex Bors Cheating is violation of rules. I don't understand why you could come up with such twisted explanation to justify it.. probably you're like those psychopathic killers who always has an explanation for murdering others.
Schumi accepts team orders, because he knows the bigger picture of winning the championship. He defended the team orders here, knowing that it has helped him a few times. Imagine if there were no team orders, then Alonso's deficit would have been smaller going into the final race although it didn't make a difference in the end. So completely understand why there were team orders, just not the way it was put.
@olehomer1988 And even then, he wasn't giving the win to Rubens. He was trying to initiate a dead heat. The fact he changed his story about it means he wasn't trying to repay Rubens.
What on earth are you talking about? That has nothing to do with team orders. It was decided before the race. If Vettel is leading, Webber must not overtake. If Webber is leading, Vettel must not overtake. It was equal for both of the drivers. Team order means it when someone tells you on the radio to do something on the track you would not otherwise do. It is not a team order if both of the drivers have agreed on something before getting into the car.
If Massa didnt let pass Alonso, Vettel would overtake both Ferrari in the next pit-stop. If Massa didnt let pass Alonso, Vettel would overtake both Ferrari in the next pit-stop.
+Lestervai Cayetano this one and that crashgate, even though it was junior Piquet who did the crash per order from Flavio Briatore, but Alonso was "allegedly" benefited from it.
The same Martin Brundle that wanted McLaren to retire Alonso in Brazil 2007 to allow Lewis Hamilton to take the championship and kept stating so repeatedly on the live feed at ITV, the same one who, in that same race alluded to the backmarkers that Hmailton was trying to pass, i.e. the Williams drivers, were probably 'told' to not keep Hamilton behind...yes that same one. Hypocrisy of the biased British media at it's finest.
+CommissarTowny www.dailymotion.com/video/x28bz5k_f1-2007-gp17-brazil-sao-paulo-race-itv_shortfilms kidding aside, Watch it and listen to what they're saying, its more blatant at some points than at others...
Anthony Iuculano "blatant British hypocrisy" what country do you live in? So we can conquer it and create a new British empire. And if you moan you'll be just another body in a body bag.
I can't believe Ferrari would rob Felipe Massa of this win. It was exactly one year after his serious accident in Hungary, what better way to show you've come back with full force than to win on the almost the same date that you almost died? But no, Ferrari had to be pricks about it. Stabbed their most loyal driver in the back. Fuck Ferrari.
Bottom line: Alonso was lapping faster and in contention for the championship. Whether you're a fan of either driver or not, it was the smart move to make. It was no doubt a bitter pill to swallow for Massa, a hollow (but possibly deserved) victory for Alonso, and a regret Ferrari would later have due to FIA's rules disallowing team orders at that time, but things could've ended much worse had they come together on track and gained no points whatsoever.
Exactly! Every team on the grid would have done the same. Alonso was in contention of the WC, he had to given priority. We all know how it all turned out in the end, but imagine if Alonso finished 2nd in the race and lost the title by 5pts. Everyone would be asking why Ferrari didn’t just let Alonso thru in Germany.
At that point Alonso wasn't a clear title contender. It looked like it was red bull Vs McLaren with Alonso p5. The way they did it was the worst thing. I have no problem with team orders if it's in the last part of the season with one driver out of the title fight but with both mathematically still in the title fight and the fact Ferrari couldn't even admit it after the penalty is where it is the worst. Shouldn't of happened
@@viking_2112 Alonso at that point was some 40ish points ahead of Felipe and it made no sense for their drivers to race each other. Having Alonso stay behind would've obviously been dumb, and Felipe winning is something people would no doubt look back upon and wonder what would've happened if he hadn't. It wasn't an ideal situation for sure, but Alonso overtaking was ultimately the best move for the team to make in my opinion.
I can see your point but the way they handled it wasn't good and if they could have handled it a lot better than it wouldn't be as much as an issue but they just did it so openly and then tried to deny it so that's all anyone remembers about that race. I don't have a problem with team orders normally but this one just isn't right
@@fortressofsoliddudes4597 i think only 26-31 points at that stage with felipe 3 DNF in row, in first part on the season very similar on results but i would say alonso was 3 tenth faster
Wasn't multi-21 the same team order? I remember hearing somewhere that multi-21 meant that car 2 (Mark Webber) had to finish in front off car 1 Vettel....
Honestly the same thing happens today. Bottas was leading when he had to give the position to Hamilton. Also he was told to hold position when obviously faster in a few races.
Legalising team orders again was such a good move. I remember being annoyed about this as a kid but looking back it was such a ridiculous rule in the first place, and Schumi saying to “not make it obvious”? Hahahaha
@@Ftblgrc Team orders are legal. They have been legal since 2011. As my comment says, they're a necessary evil for teams to maximise their points. Imagine if last season when McLaren were 1-2 in Monza and they didn't apply team orders. Lando attacks Ricciardo and maybe they make contact and therefore they lose the win. That would be a disaster for the team
It's ruining the sport in many ways, but it's almost impossible to know if a team is giving an order or not. Teams can internally create a word and say it during the race like "how do you feel the tires", that could be a hidden team order for something. Or simply agree before the race that if certain driver is leading the race but behind him is the championship leader, then just let him pass, like Ferrari is currently doing with Kimi and Vettel. They claim they're letting their drivers race, and yet Kimi always let Vettel pass (Canada, Monaco, Monza, etc) and when he's faster, he doesn't even try to overtake him (Hungary)
It's a business. The team is the most important thing. The team is the employer of the drivers and all those who work to race. If it will benefit the team to allow a driver to pass the other driver to fight for the Championship then that's what will happen. Look at the overall picture, not a single race. The top teams care about two things; Top priority Constructors Champions, 2nd priority Driver's Championship. If Alonso say would've won the Championship and this race was a big part of it, then the team would've accomplished an objective. If you don't want team orders then the only way would be a single driver team, with a reserve driver.
I don't fully agree with team orders but Formula one is a team sport. At that point in the season, Ferrari had been struggling to keep pace with Red Bull/ McLaren and Alonso was 47 points off the lead. Even with the large deficit, he was still in a much better position than Massa in the Championship and needed the points a lot more. To Alonso's defense, the Red Bull incident had happened just a few races before so he wasn't going to risk taking out his teammate when maximum constructors points were on the table. Plus Massa can be a bit aggressive defending his position. All in all you have to put yourself in Ferrari's shoes. Keep Massa in front and risk a double DNF or allow Alonso to pass incident free and make up ground in both championships. I agree it's not fun to watch but F1 is very competitive (especially in 2010) and when it comes down to it, drivers are expected to do what's best for the team.
2007: spy gate 2008: crash gate 2009: Lewis and Trulli and SC incident 2010: Team Order scandal 2011: Lewis and Massa incidents 2012: Romain Grosjean Causing a crash in Belgium 2013: Tyres exploding 2014: Rosberg causing yellow flags Jesus these past years are full of controversy.
0:37 "what are we going to be talking about? The pace of Ferrari, the performance of the Ferrari...?" In 2020, we will certainly be talking about those things, maybe not in the way Ferrari would want though...
Bottas wasn't in contention for the title, Lewis was. There's the difference. At the time of this, Massa couldn't win the title but Alonso could. Only difference being that team orders that interfere with the race result had been banned.
Yeah but Schumacher did other shit to like crash into hill, Villnerve on purpose so he could win the championship and Schumacher didn't have to go past barchillo in 2002 he could of backed off but no, in my opinion Michael Schumacher won more championships then he actually deserved
Joseph Harper Villneuve yes but Hill no. When he ran off the car broke. That's why the car turned in so aggressivly. Hill saw all that and still thought the move was a good idea.
Poor Massa, he had to move over for Heifield back in 2002 at almost the same corner. 8 years later, the difference was that the message was televised live for millions to see.
The same order was issued in Australia too by the way, but that time Massa ignored it. Propably if he ignored the same thing again his contract with Ferrari was over. If that's the case, I'm not blaming him.
I'm glad they didn't penalize Ferrari further than the fine. They had no reason to considering Renault had gotten away with far worse (race-fixing) and without any action taken: no disqualification, no bans (other than personnel), no fines, to invalidation of the results, etc.. In light of that, even the fine was arguably excessive.
possibly but in 1998 at the Belgium Grand Prix it was Damon Hill who told the team that he feared Ralf Schumacher and him crashing, taking his victory and a Jordan GP 1-2 finish and Eddie gave the order after Damon asked for it.
Legal or not, it was just unfair... Had the situation be reverse, would Fernando move over for him? I 'd bet not. Felipe is too nice a person... We will miss him so much in Ferrari. And I am just looking forward to Kimi, giving way to Fernando... :PPP
and if he didn't he might not have got signed the following year. real smart. give up a multi-million dollar job + sponsor money. clearly you don't see the bigger picture. i don't condone it but DC is right. EVERY team gives team orders. plus its better for ferrari to have alnso win because he's Italian (therefore they can gain more italian sponsors) vs. felipe.
f1 isn't about money? that has to be a joke. clearly thats why nico is not driving a top tier car or why maldonado is driving a top tier car. of course its about the money. santander (ferrari's #1 sponsor) is spanish ad so is alonso. why would they rather have a mexican represent the company if they can get a spaniard to do it? don't hear everything you hear them say. a lot of what they say are deflections or for political reasons.
i just want to clear the confusion. i meant nico hulkenberg (drives for force india as of 2014) not nico rosberg (drives for mercedes AMG which is an amazing team). i can agree with you that alonso can go to retirement, that i wouldn't doubt. ferrari can't (at least not as easily). a lot of it has to do again with business. ferrari (and in the bigger picture their parent company - fiat) learn a lot from the f1 program they have. for them to shut it down would be a lose rather then a gain (lose marketing right, sponsorships, creditability which in turns reduces sales etc etc.). any company losing money is NEVER a good thing. they said they don't care about the money & sponsors but in reality they do. they're a public companies which have shareholders to answer to when the stocks start taking a nose dive. over all, no ferrari isn't doing it for pride but the money. like i said keeping alonso helps their image with santender a lot more then having messa.
supersuckmynuts I see the picture as big as it is :) I am not talking about Felipe's decision to obey (that is just understandable, right under the reasons you mentioned), I am talking about the order that was given... That was unfair. But however Alonso may be a driver more successful, I respect Felipe as a person; which I can't tell about Fernando. And that's nothing to do with team orders ;) Beyond the frame, possibly.. :P
Not to the same extent? You're right, worse. Renault orchestrated a crash to allow their other car to win. McLaren used them two years prior, also while they were banned.
+Cory Baxter Every team does team orders. RBR, McLaren, Mercedes, Renault etc. You don't like Ferrari rather because of their history and importance for the F1, and that's a loser/hater mentality.
@flaperke do you really think you need a radio for teams orders? and even if you ignore the boards that they used before, you can give an order before the race started
Massa went offtrack in the start, whereas Alonso broke earlier to keep the car on track. So that´s an illegal overtake for me like they did with Ocon in Abu Dhabi and they´ve put a penalty every time this happens every year. Anyway Alonso lapped half a second faster in Qualy and drove away when they let him pass. Also Red Bull did something worse than team orders in Great Britain to Webber that year and no one complained, we had already seen team orders before with legendary drivers and we still see them today. Not to meantion Felipe was already out of the Championship battle and finished it 108 points behind Fernando, so there is no debate on that decision.
According to some it is not a problem when it benefits Schumacher ( Austria 2002 ), Hamilton ( Germany 2008, Russia 2018 ), Raikkonen ( Brazil 2007 ) but a problem when it benefits Alonso, which is ridiculous.
I feel very sorry for Massa, because I think that after his fatal accident in Hungary almost exactly 1 year ago, it might have been a turning point for him and the order, which showed that he is No. 2 in the team might,kind of broke his will. I mean before he could have finished finished top 5 in terms of racing speed but was put behind by the Ferrari strategys and afterwards he was the test subject for Ferrari,if it started raining.
@@supertommy1000ify So what is the point of your comment then? Because without the context of whether team orders are legal or illegal, seems like your comment has no point at all.
OK I get it team orders weren't allowed and it was just spoken different team order and after all both sides were right on their own, Felipe deserved that victory and Alonso's contention in wdc and not causing any crash,but after all the team orders I have heard in past years even Schumacher's, Fernando Alonso seems to be the most hated for that.
Fernando is the best driver. See, he doesn't need team orders, and still won the championship. It was the same in Singapore, when his manager didn't ask his teammate to crash, and Alonso definitely didn't know that was happening. He is so good. All this time in McLaren was intentional to give the rest of the field a chance to win.
It was Ferrari once again, and Michael didn't wan't to win like that at all, after the race he was even embarrassed to step into the podium, he knew he didn't deserve it.
The problem was not the team orders (although they were still banned back then), it’s how they all lied trying to conceal an obvious truth. And a $100,000 fine? That’s ridiculous, it’s nothing for Ferrari. Besides, it somewhat psychologically destroyed Felipe for the rest of his time in red
@sinner2208 Yes, yes. But I still wonder why you wrote that Fangio has the record with 5 championships. Because he doesn't. Or don't you count all of Michael's?
@flaperke What difference would that make? If they tell the driver to move over if he finds him self in front before the race or over the radio. It would still happen.
+MrTheben99 Easy. Felipe Massa leads the whole race. Alonso behind Massa and complains on the radio he can't get past. Massa's engineer Rob Smedley tells Felipe that Fernando is faster, implying that he has to let him through. Team orders were prohibited at this moment. => Scandal
I'll be flamed for this, but Massa was never directly told to move over for Alonso. He was informed that he was 'slower', and the fact that he so obviously let Alonso through was the controversy. Yes, the team had implied it but in the end it was Massa's choice.
To be honest. If I was in that position I'd say race hard, race clean, and race to win. Even between yourselves. If it comes down to the last 4-5 races of the season I might say lets put X in a position to win the championship. If it ever came down to it. Regardless I feel as if they should strip wins and points from drivers who are given freebies, just straight handed a position. Especially if its for the win.
Fernando is faster than you....so clear.... I can remember this, felt so sorry for Massa, especially it was under 12 months since he had that horrific incident in Hungary
that comment by schumacher at 0:55 was edited, he was referring to a team order the race before germany, bbc made it look like he was referring to the move between alonso-massa.
"Rule 39.1" is the most ignored rule in F1 and everyone knows that. As Coulthard said, there's not a single team that doesn't give team orders, Ferrari just weren't as subtle as the rest.
We will probably see the same happen between Bottas and Hamilton in 2019. Bottas is looking the better driver but Hamilton is their number 1 golden boy
+Harry Strong Hmm then maybe they should have done the same with McLaren at Hockenheim two years earlier; or should have actually invalidated the race in Singapore that Renault fixed...I didn't see any of that happening though...
Yes Harry, I know, but the point is they DIDN'T do all of that. They let those other transgressions slide. McLaren received no sanctions for their own team game, and no race Renault had fixed (the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix) was invalidated (in fact they got off completely scot free) yet Ferrari 'switch' the order of a 1-2 finish and they get a $100k fine and a WMSC hearing. There should be no room in the governance of a sport for the use of double standards, especially ones as blatant as these. Further still, since they didn't do anything for the other two cases, then I will even go as far as to say that there should not even have been the $100k fine for Ferrari. Either impose sanctions equally, or don't impose any at all.
Man, finally came across the person who actually understands the point of F1. all I can say is I totally agree with you! Exact same thing Happened between Hamilton and Alonso and What Hamilton did? he took the message and shoved it up teams ass and said we are racing and let the best driver win! this is the spirit of a racing driver. Yes your paycheck based on the construction points but as any racer at the end of the day why he races? he will always reply Honor! not money!
There is a clear difference, in case you forgot. It was not illegal in 1998. It became after Austria 2002 (guess which team was the cause of that decision).
this is where i don't understand the notion that vettel merely got "lucky" with his championship in 2010, having seized the lead only after the last race in abu dhabi. Mark Webber threw away what looked like a very good points lead at the Korean GP by running wide and crashing. in abu dhabi alonso couldn't find a way past a rookie named petrov, and one thing being swept under the rug is that the victory in Germany was massa's "gift". vettel on the other hand earned all points fair and square.
i like how christian horner says he's against team orders but in 2011 he told mark webber to maintain the gap to vettel when he could have passed him and needed the points more.
At that time, it did look bad, but as Schumi said, it doesn't matter if it means winning the championship. Because of this race, Alonso was at least 15points ahead of Vettel and 8 ahead of Webber. If there were no team orders, it'd have been 7 points less, and the final result would have been worse. Not that it mattered in the end, but you get the idea.
@sinner2208 the save fuel message was first given to Hamilton, then Hamilton replied:"if I slow down, is Jenson gonna pass me", they replied "no".That was how Jenson was able to get close to Lewis and start fighting for the first position, because Lewis was told to save fuel, so he slowed down and Jenson got him, after that was that the team gave Jenson the order too...Jenson overtook Lewis, then Lewis overtook Jenson, so there was a fight between the McLarens...we didn't get that from Ferrari
Just curious as a really new f1 fan. Why are team orders so frowned upon? Other than crashing deliberately or something dangerous like that, I don't see why a team shouldn't be allowed to let teammates pass each other.
They were banned from the 2003 season all the way up till the end of the 2011 season. Main reason people don't like it is it doesn't allow drivers to race against each other. One of the things I like about Merc is that they do allow their drivers to race, hence all the incidents that Rosberg and Hamilton had over the years.
Alonso was faster than Massa, they let Alonso go through. I remember Ralf Schumacher being faster than Damon Hill and they let Damon finish first, that's more of a scandal to me.
Ralf still had to pass Hill, not just catch him, on the (very dificult) track, so they could crash. A team that never won a GP has 1-2 finish why take the risk? And Ralf was Faster when he was a lot of seconds behind of hill because he was pushing and Hill no, when he closed the gap Hill started to go faster.
Marcel that was when team orders were legal. That was fine. This is breaking the rules. And even that was so they didn't battle, considering the dangerous conditions on the track.
Isma D Keeping Hill in front was arguably more dangerous. It makes more sense to me to release the quicker car and guarantee the win than potentially ending up backed towards a quicker car who wouldn't be so nice about overtaking
Anyway, as we are talking about team orders - sometimes, its very helpful, when the engineer reminds you to look after your tyres, especially when you are named Massa ;)
Except there was one big difference - when he and Barrichello did it, it was legal. From 2003 until 2010, team orders were banned, hence why every team up and down the pit lane were demanding both Ferraris be excluded from the race.
+Matt Leary hypocrites...they had all used them, some just as 'blatantly', and some even to worse ends (such as race-fixing) without a ban or even so much as a fine...
+Matt Leary hypocrites...they had all used them, some just as 'blatantly', and some even to worse ends (such as race-fixing) without a ban or even so much as a fine...
"The apology is just because I'm sorry that's happened, I'm sorry you got passed."
Hahahahaha. Probably some of the best improvised bullshit I've ever heard.
Lmao HAHA Lol so true
2019: valteri it's james, let lewis pass you.
Senna: 2nd is the 1st in a long list of losers
Bottas: **cries in James**
Yes, but there is a small difference. It was illegal when Ferrari did it. And it was illegal, because of Ferrari itself with that Austria 2002 GP shame.
Mercedes did it in their garage, not on radio *LOOOOLLLLL
@@darwinism18 so it legal now? Just asking...
@@nelsonmiranda6117 Yes, team orders AFTER THAT German GP of 2010 are legal.
who agrees with me that the engineer made it purposely sound super obvious because he didn't agree with the decision
Damn didn't think of it that way. Good job to lowkey throw Ferrari under the bus haha.
Was that Rob Smedley? and if it is I guess so too as he and Massa are lads..
like rubens at Austria 2002
Some people say in Brazil that Massa said before that: "If he is faster than me, why the *** is he Behind me?" But i doubt that
it's funny how Eddie Jordan acts so angry when he used to do the same thing.
Because of Damon Hill.
He explained that he's angry because it was an illegal order. When he did it, it wasn't banned yet.
What happened at Spa was not like this, Eddie knew in those conditions it was way to risky for ralf and Damon to race, so he played it safe and took a 1-2 for the race. And Ralf was only 5 sec. a lap quicker in that sector because Damon was very cautious there. They basically had the same pace.
Damon was the one who sugested Eddie that the Jordans should not race. Eddie is completely against team orders, and he just did that because Hill sugested it
Eddie was in favor of those team orders at Spa because it was keeping the race result the same, no interference, and Ralf was only 5 sec. Quicker one sector because Damon was extra careful, he later matched Damon's pace. I like Eddie's call because it kept his drivers, marshals, and spectators safe.
"Fernando is faster than you."
Well then, Fernando can catch me and try to pass me. That's motor racing.
I know this is a year old but you obviously don’t understand how F1 works
A few years later w Massa in Williams & Alonso in McHonda: **plays reverse card**
@@lzh4950 Felipe baby is faster than you
@@guygadbois7618 What is he wrong about? This race wasn't anywhere near the title decider, it was in the middle of the season where everything could still happen. What happened here wasn't F1. If this was F1, they'd let Massa keep the lead and let Alonso fight for it.
KR The Car Guy F1 is about team. The team can and will decide orders. Just ask Red Bull how letting three drivers fight went
I feel bad for Massa because I think even after his accident he still could have gone on to win races if he had the team behind him, his self -confidence seemed to already have been shaken by what had happened the year before and I think this was a bigger blow to the morale
After his incident it was pretty hard to return,this win could have boosted him up,but yeah...as a fan of ferrari they get on my nerves with some managment
He deserved 2008 world title, his dream gone with crash gate
Massa might have been champion in 2008 if Ferrari hadn't messed up Massa's pit stop in Singapore
Eddie Jordan should rather be quiet about team orders
151kbar151 Eh idk in his situation (assuming you're talking about Spa 1998) that was a pretty fair and smart decision. Jordan needed that win, and it was bad weather so it would be pretty risky to let them race. This is the exact opposite.
in your circumstances, this is also smart decision because Alonso was racing for championship and they didn't want to loose points (and i'm saying this as Felipe's fan)
151kbar151 Yeah that's true, but Ferrari is Ferrari, wins are not scarce for them (well at that time they weren't) whereas Jordan was a mid-field team where a win would be a huge achievement for them.
+Cory Baxter Ferrari is over rated. They always underperform and fail expectation. If they don't cheat, how does Ferrari win
Alex Bors
Cheating is violation of rules. I don't understand why you could come up with such twisted explanation to justify it.. probably you're like those psychopathic killers who always has an explanation for murdering others.
I wonder how many races Schumacher won because of team orders?
Not his fault.
uhb
mmmmn
avatar vvvvvvvv
Were they? I was pretty sure that they were only allowed in the last 4-5 years or so?
navnig Shows you're young kid
PR4470 The interview was chopped to promote the BBC'S agenda, Schumacher fully approved of the orders and the outcome in the full interview..
Funny that schumacher says that..
Schumacher 's full interview defended Ferrari
Schumi accepts team orders, because he knows the bigger picture of winning the championship. He defended the team orders here, knowing that it has helped him a few times.
Imagine if there were no team orders, then Alonso's deficit would have been smaller going into the final race although it didn't make a difference in the end. So completely understand why there were team orders, just not the way it was put.
2002 Austria podium look at what he did
@olehomer1988 And even then, he wasn't giving the win to Rubens. He was trying to initiate a dead heat. The fact he changed his story about it means he wasn't trying to repay Rubens.
@@lotusraptos He did repay him you inbredd moron.
You don't get to just read between the lines and ignore reality
Yeah Horner !! Multi 21 !!
+Navtej Singh Saini That happened after team orders were re-introduced
Matthew Thomas and vettel and weber acepted don,t overtake after the last pitstop
They were not protecting vettel
kamikaze234 ? Except the time that we know Multi 21 from, Sepang 2013
What on earth are you talking about? That has nothing to do with team orders. It was decided before the race. If Vettel is leading, Webber must not overtake. If Webber is leading, Vettel must not overtake. It was equal for both of the drivers. Team order means it when someone tells you on the radio to do something on the track you would not otherwise do. It is not a team order if both of the drivers have agreed on something before getting into the car.
Yeah he seems like he doesnt understand team orders!
The last race Massa won was Brazil 2008, this would have been brilliant for him! Such a shame... at least it didnt affect the championship
as a massa fan im really pissed that he didn't won this race. this race could have been Massa's only victory that season
+Viandra160 Well he is the real moral victor of course. Alonso knows it for sure.
cerbeross1 yep
If Massa didnt let pass Alonso, Vettel would overtake both Ferrari in the next pit-stop. If Massa didnt let pass Alonso, Vettel would overtake both Ferrari in the next pit-stop.
@@amateu87 There wasn't any "next pit-stop".
how many scandals do Alonso involve to?
+Lestervai Cayetano this one and that crashgate, even though it was junior Piquet who did the crash per order from Flavio Briatore, but Alonso was "allegedly" benefited from it.
Also holding Hamilton in the pits in Hungary 07
But this was Ferrari's fault, not his
+KFJ990 because it is ferrari's fault. alonso did not get penalized and ferrari got fined
Alonso pressing on the radio to overtake Fisichella in Canada '05
The same Martin Brundle that wanted McLaren to retire Alonso in Brazil 2007 to allow Lewis Hamilton to take the championship and kept stating so repeatedly on the live feed at ITV, the same one who, in that same race alluded to the backmarkers that Hmailton was trying to pass, i.e. the Williams drivers, were probably 'told' to not keep Hamilton behind...yes that same one. Hypocrisy of the biased British media at it's finest.
+CommissarTowny www.dailymotion.com/video/x28bz5k_f1-2007-gp17-brazil-sao-paulo-race-itv_shortfilms kidding aside, Watch it and listen to what they're saying, its more blatant at some points than at others...
+Anthony Iuculano Martin Brundle is a twat. It's all about David Coulthard.
+CommissarTowny Points to look at for blatant British media hypocrisy:
13:00
24:30
27:30
1:13:30
Just to point out a few..
+Anthony Iuculano Agree. He's Hamilton's bitch. What else could you expect from a brit?!
Anthony Iuculano "blatant British hypocrisy" what country do you live in? So we can conquer it and create a new British empire. And if you moan you'll be just another body in a body bag.
I can't believe Ferrari would rob Felipe Massa of this win. It was exactly one year after his serious accident in Hungary, what better way to show you've come back with full force than to win on the almost the same date that you almost died? But no, Ferrari had to be pricks about it. Stabbed their most loyal driver in the back. Fuck Ferrari.
Disgusting how Ferrari treats their Secondary Drivers like shit.
Some teams never learn.
Bottom line: Alonso was lapping faster and in contention for the championship. Whether you're a fan of either driver or not, it was the smart move to make. It was no doubt a bitter pill to swallow for Massa, a hollow (but possibly deserved) victory for Alonso, and a regret Ferrari would later have due to FIA's rules disallowing team orders at that time, but things could've ended much worse had they come together on track and gained no points whatsoever.
Exactly! Every team on the grid would have done the same. Alonso was in contention of the WC, he had to given priority. We all know how it all turned out in the end, but imagine if Alonso finished 2nd in the race and lost the title by 5pts. Everyone would be asking why Ferrari didn’t just let Alonso thru in Germany.
At that point Alonso wasn't a clear title contender. It looked like it was red bull Vs McLaren with Alonso p5. The way they did it was the worst thing. I have no problem with team orders if it's in the last part of the season with one driver out of the title fight but with both mathematically still in the title fight and the fact Ferrari couldn't even admit it after the penalty is where it is the worst. Shouldn't of happened
@@viking_2112 Alonso at that point was some 40ish points ahead of Felipe and it made no sense for their drivers to race each other. Having Alonso stay behind would've obviously been dumb, and Felipe winning is something people would no doubt look back upon and wonder what would've happened if he hadn't. It wasn't an ideal situation for sure, but Alonso overtaking was ultimately the best move for the team to make in my opinion.
I can see your point but the way they handled it wasn't good and if they could have handled it a lot better than it wouldn't be as much as an issue but they just did it so openly and then tried to deny it so that's all anyone remembers about that race. I don't have a problem with team orders normally but this one just isn't right
@@fortressofsoliddudes4597 i think only 26-31 points at that stage with felipe 3 DNF in row, in first part on the season very similar on results but i would say alonso was 3 tenth faster
Massa deserves at least one championship before hes done. Such a professional good driver
2008 was so unlucky...
@@lufetm while i really wanted him to win that year. he made wayyyy to many mistakes
Bruh
@@supertommy1000ify Bro?
@@nealcaffrey2667 Hamilton made several mistakes that season as well
Ferrari robbed Massa that victory.
+Brandon Wright they always do. Remember Austrian GP where Barrichello has to move over for Schumacher?
+Joe Rock yep. i remember that. im pretty sure most people know about that
Joe Rock zx
Viandra160
Ferrari was also his employer...
Wasn't multi-21 the same team order? I remember hearing somewhere that multi-21 meant that car 2 (Mark Webber) had to finish in front off car 1 Vettel....
its a different case. go check the f1 rules in 2010 and 2013, and you'll know why this one is illegal.
It wouldn't have affected the running order multi 21 was telling them to stay in that order.
And multi 12
Im 5 years late but Multi21 meant exactly that. Webber was supposed to finish first, Vettel 2nd, but Vettel disobeyed
and i'm gladly he disobeyed team order way too much illogical.
Honestly the same thing happens today. Bottas was leading when he had to give the position to Hamilton. Also he was told to hold position when obviously faster in a few races.
And to have Michael Schumacher commenting on other teams team orders, well that's rich to say the least
Legalising team orders again was such a good move. I remember being annoyed about this as a kid but looking back it was such a ridiculous rule in the first place, and Schumi saying to “not make it obvious”? Hahahaha
Team orders are a necessary evil. Even if it’s not popular with fans wanting to see drivers race
If F1 legalized the Team Order it is not a motor racing, It will be a Puppet Race.
@@Ftblgrc Team orders are legal. They have been legal since 2011. As my comment says, they're a necessary evil for teams to maximise their points. Imagine if last season when McLaren were 1-2 in Monza and they didn't apply team orders. Lando attacks Ricciardo and maybe they make contact and therefore they lose the win. That would be a disaster for the team
@@tombardsley3081 btw the current CEO of F1 is Stefano Domenicali.
@@Ftblgrc yeah I know. But he wasn’t when team orders were made legal in 2011 . He was still at Ferrari until 2014
The real scandal was that team orders were illegal.
Team orders needs to be banned again, It's ruining this amazing sport
It's ruining the sport in many ways, but it's almost impossible to know if a team is giving an order or not. Teams can internally create a word and say it during the race like "how do you feel the tires", that could be a hidden team order for something. Or simply agree before the race that if certain driver is leading the race but behind him is the championship leader, then just let him pass, like Ferrari is currently doing with Kimi and Vettel. They claim they're letting their drivers race, and yet Kimi always let Vettel pass (Canada, Monaco, Monza, etc) and when he's faster, he doesn't even try to overtake him (Hungary)
It's always been in the sport
As you can see even if it is banned they will find a way out of it. There is no way of totally banning Team orders
It's a business. The team is the most important thing. The team is the employer of the drivers and all those who work to race. If it will benefit the team to allow a driver to pass the other driver to fight for the Championship then that's what will happen. Look at the overall picture, not a single race. The top teams care about two things; Top priority Constructors Champions, 2nd priority Driver's Championship. If Alonso say would've won the Championship and this race was a big part of it, then the team would've accomplished an objective. If you don't want team orders then the only way would be a single driver team, with a reserve driver.
I don't fully agree with team orders but Formula one is a team sport. At that point in the season, Ferrari had been struggling to keep pace with Red Bull/ McLaren and Alonso was 47 points off the lead. Even with the large deficit, he was still in a much better position than Massa in the Championship and needed the points a lot more. To Alonso's defense, the Red Bull incident had happened just a few races before so he wasn't going to risk taking out his teammate when maximum constructors points were on the table. Plus Massa can be a bit aggressive defending his position. All in all you have to put yourself in Ferrari's shoes. Keep Massa in front and risk a double DNF or allow Alonso to pass incident free and make up ground in both championships. I agree it's not fun to watch but F1 is very competitive (especially in 2010) and when it comes down to it, drivers are expected to do what's best for the team.
2007: spy gate
2008: crash gate
2009: Lewis and Trulli and SC incident
2010: Team Order scandal
2011: Lewis and Massa incidents
2012: Romain Grosjean Causing a crash in Belgium
2013: Tyres exploding
2014: Rosberg causing yellow flags
Jesus these past years are full of controversy.
A year ago from that sunday was that weekend that Felipe had that massive crash at Hungary
Valterri, its james...
"Valtteri, it's James"
Anyone here after Russia 2018?
Actually, there was the same message in Australia 2010, but Massa had not let Alonso through.
0:37 "what are we going to be talking about? The pace of Ferrari, the performance of the Ferrari...?"
In 2020, we will certainly be talking about those things, maybe not in the way Ferrari would want though...
I'm back after the McLaren team order in Hungary.
Yep this is more comparable than Multi 21
So, is it allowed for Mercedes ?? Bottas got his victory stolen in the same way.
Bottas wasn't in contention for the title, Lewis was. There's the difference.
At the time of this, Massa couldn't win the title but Alonso could. Only difference being that team orders that interfere with the race result had been banned.
Bottos was told about this since the beginning, was he not in title contender
@@TheDazzler420 Massa was not a title contender either.
Mercedes do the team order on 2018 mate, the rules has changed from 2013 i think
Schumacher has benefitted the most from team orders having Barrichello move over all the time.
all the time? i remember a few times maybe 2-3, but not all the bloody time.
I didn't mean ALL the time, but Schumacher was always the number 1 driver
+mclarenrob2 I only remember the 2002 incident and Schumacher unlike Alonso did not celebrate the victory
Yeah but Schumacher did other shit to like crash into hill, Villnerve on purpose so he could win the championship and Schumacher didn't have to go past barchillo in 2002 he could of backed off but no, in my opinion Michael Schumacher won more championships then he actually deserved
Joseph Harper Villneuve yes but Hill no. When he ran off the car broke. That's why the car turned in so aggressivly. Hill saw all that and still thought the move was a good idea.
Multi 21
Sorry wrong video
David Velkovski Webber vs Vettel for those that don’t know
Poor Massa, he had to move over for Heifield back in 2002 at almost the same corner. 8 years later, the difference was that the message was televised live for millions to see.
F1 should go back 60 years or so. No radio-communication with the pit and electronic gizmo's. Just the driver and his car, and his skills.
The same order was issued in Australia too by the way, but that time Massa ignored it. Propably if he ignored the same thing again his contract with Ferrari was over. If that's the case, I'm not blaming him.
I'm glad they didn't penalize Ferrari further than the fine. They had no reason to considering Renault had gotten away with far worse (race-fixing) and without any action taken: no disqualification, no bans (other than personnel), no fines, to invalidation of the results, etc.. In light of that, even the fine was arguably excessive.
I don't really understand. Has this rule been removed? STR talked about switching spots with drivers in Singapore and now in Melbourne.
possibly but in 1998 at the Belgium Grand Prix it was Damon Hill who told the team that he feared Ralf Schumacher and him crashing, taking his victory and a Jordan GP 1-2 finish and Eddie gave the order after Damon asked for it.
Team orders are a scandal?
0:57 what did he say to max verstappen this year when he say no ??
Legal or not, it was just unfair...
Had the situation be reverse, would Fernando move over for him? I 'd bet not. Felipe is too nice a person... We will miss him so much in Ferrari.
And I am just looking forward to Kimi, giving way to Fernando... :PPP
and if he didn't he might not have got signed the following year. real smart. give up a multi-million dollar job + sponsor money. clearly you don't see the bigger picture. i don't condone it but DC is right. EVERY team gives team orders. plus its better for ferrari to have alnso win because he's Italian (therefore they can gain more italian sponsors) vs. felipe.
f1 isn't about money? that has to be a joke. clearly thats why nico is not driving a top tier car or why maldonado is driving a top tier car. of course its about the money. santander (ferrari's #1 sponsor) is spanish ad so is alonso. why would they rather have a mexican represent the company if they can get a spaniard to do it? don't hear everything you hear them say. a lot of what they say are deflections or for political reasons.
i just want to clear the confusion. i meant nico hulkenberg (drives for force india as of 2014) not nico rosberg (drives for mercedes AMG which is an amazing team). i can agree with you that alonso can go to retirement, that i wouldn't doubt. ferrari can't (at least not as easily). a lot of it has to do again with business. ferrari (and in the bigger picture their parent company - fiat) learn a lot from the f1 program they have. for them to shut it down would be a lose rather then a gain (lose marketing right, sponsorships, creditability which in turns reduces sales etc etc.). any company losing money is NEVER a good thing. they said they don't care about the money & sponsors but in reality they do. they're a public companies which have shareholders to answer to when the stocks start taking a nose dive. over all, no ferrari isn't doing it for pride but the money. like i said keeping alonso helps their image with santender a lot more then having messa.
supersuckmynuts
I see the picture as big as it is :) I am not talking about Felipe's decision to obey (that is just understandable, right under the reasons you mentioned), I am talking about the order that was given... That was unfair.
But however Alonso may be a driver more successful, I respect Felipe as a person; which I can't tell about Fernando. And that's nothing to do with team orders ;)
Beyond the frame, possibly.. :P
supersuckmynuts felipe has an italian background, his father and mother is italian
Wait guys so if this "Team Orders" are illegal, how come Mercedes did it so often with Lewis and Valterri?
They were made legal in 2011 and have been legal since
Fernando is faster than YOU
meet Singh frernando, Feplie is faster than you
This is just one reason why I don't like Ferrari.
then you must not like McLaren, or Renault, or anyone, because they used them too
+Anthony Iuculano but not to the same extent, and not when they were banned
Not to the same extent? You're right, worse. Renault orchestrated a crash to allow their other car to win. McLaren used them two years prior, also while they were banned.
+Cory Baxter Every team does team orders. RBR, McLaren, Mercedes, Renault etc. You don't like Ferrari rather because of their history and importance for the F1, and that's a loser/hater mentality.
+f1 maniac dmw rekt
Difference was that he was so ashamed that he didn't want to get on the podium. Did Alonso do the same thing? I think not.
at least fernando didn't win the championship, and the fact he spent so much time behind petrov was brilliant
@flaperke
do you really think you need a radio for teams orders? and even if you ignore the boards that they used before, you can give an order before the race started
Massa went offtrack in the start, whereas Alonso broke earlier to keep the car on track. So that´s an illegal overtake for me like they did with Ocon in Abu Dhabi and they´ve put a penalty every time this happens every year.
Anyway Alonso lapped half a second faster in Qualy and drove away when they let him pass. Also Red Bull did something worse than team orders in Great Britain to Webber that year and no one complained, we had already seen team orders before with legendary drivers and we still see them today.
Not to meantion Felipe was already out of the Championship battle and finished it 108 points behind Fernando, so there is no debate on that decision.
According to some it is not a problem when it benefits Schumacher ( Austria 2002 ), Hamilton ( Germany 2008, Russia 2018 ), Raikkonen ( Brazil 2007 ) but a problem when it benefits Alonso, which is ridiculous.
So when lotus said "kimi is faster then you, dont hold him up" to grosjean, was that also a team order?
feel bad for massa..
Reporter: "if you'd have won today, what would it have changed?"
Massa: "I would have been happy"
I feel very sorry for Massa, because I think that after his fatal accident in Hungary almost exactly 1 year ago, it might have been a turning point for him and the order, which showed that he is No. 2 in the team might,kind of broke his will. I mean before he could have finished finished top 5 in terms of racing speed but was put behind by the Ferrari strategys and afterwards he was the test subject for Ferrari,if it started raining.
Horner: It's not good for the sport
didn't age well
"Valtteri, It is James " is the new Fernando is faster than you
Martin Brundle when any team does team orders: pissed
Martin Brundle when A team does team orders in favor of Lewis: No problem
Team orders were illegal when Ferrari did it. Team orders are not illegal now.
@@fiddle_n That's not the point of my comment
I know they were illegal
@@supertommy1000ify So what is the point of your comment then? Because without the context of whether team orders are legal or illegal, seems like your comment has no point at all.
OK I get it team orders weren't allowed and it was just spoken different team order and after all both sides were right on their own, Felipe deserved that victory and Alonso's contention in wdc and not causing any crash,but after all the team orders I have heard in past years even Schumacher's, Fernando Alonso seems to be the most hated for that.
Cos it was done when it was illegal and the way they did it was so bad and obvious that it was team orders!
Fernando is the best driver. See, he doesn't need team orders, and still won the championship. It was the same in Singapore, when his manager didn't ask his teammate to crash, and Alonso definitely didn't know that was happening. He is so good. All this time in McLaren was intentional to give the rest of the field a chance to win.
It was Ferrari once again, and Michael didn't wan't to win like that at all, after the race he was even embarrassed to step into the podium, he knew he didn't deserve it.
SENNA WAS THE BEST BRAZILIAN DRIVER!!
PURE DRIVE, PURE RACING, NO MONEY POLITICS!
Isn't multi 21 or multi 12 the same as this?
Nico Weekes nope because vettal wanted 1st place and didn't listen to the team who told him to stay put
They now have Binotto... taking the legacy to a whole new level
Binotto work at Ferrari since the 90s lol
@@supertommy1000ify true but he was not a boss back then. My comment was pointing towards Binotto being one of the top leaders
The problem was not the team orders (although they were still banned back then), it’s how they all lied trying to conceal an obvious truth. And a $100,000 fine? That’s ridiculous, it’s nothing for Ferrari. Besides, it somewhat psychologically destroyed Felipe for the rest of his time in red
@sinner2208 Yes, yes. But I still wonder why you wrote that Fangio has the record with 5 championships. Because he doesn't. Or don't you count all of Michael's?
If this was a British driver the press would be ignorant, like kovalainen, Hamilton in 2008, and now valterri it's James.
Maybe this is why Vettel keeps messing up those team orders...or radio signals. 🤔
@flaperke What difference would that make? If they tell the driver to move over if he finds him self in front before the race or over the radio. It would still happen.
I didn't understand what happened... Somedy explain me?
+MrTheben99 Easy. Felipe Massa leads the whole race. Alonso behind Massa and complains on the radio he can't get past. Massa's engineer Rob Smedley tells Felipe that Fernando is faster, implying that he has to let him through.
Team orders were prohibited at this moment. => Scandal
you are absolutely right in your analysis. people are just blind.
I'll be flamed for this, but Massa was never directly told to move over for Alonso. He was informed that he was 'slower', and the fact that he so obviously let Alonso through was the controversy. Yes, the team had implied it but in the end it was Massa's choice.
To be honest. If I was in that position I'd say race hard, race clean, and race to win. Even between yourselves. If it comes down to the last 4-5 races of the season I might say lets put X in a position to win the championship. If it ever came down to it.
Regardless I feel as if they should strip wins and points from drivers who are given freebies, just straight handed a position. Especially if its for the win.
Fernando is faster than you....so clear.... I can remember this, felt so sorry for Massa, especially it was under 12 months since he had that horrific incident in Hungary
that comment by schumacher at 0:55 was edited, he was referring to a team order the race before germany, bbc made it look like he was referring to the move between alonso-massa.
Someone needs to edit in GTA “Wasted” as Alonso is passing Massa
"Schuhmacher is faster then you"
the first scandal
"Rule 39.1" is the most ignored rule in F1 and everyone knows that. As Coulthard said, there's not a single team that doesn't give team orders, Ferrari just weren't as subtle as the rest.
Massa* wasn't.
We will probably see the same happen between Bottas and Hamilton in 2019. Bottas is looking the better driver but Hamilton is their number 1 golden boy
I don't think that 100,000 dollars is enough. The penalty should be 100 million dollars.
darvish2012 its not like they did a huge spygate or anything. 100k is more then enough
+101JuventusFan 100k is nothing to Ferrari. They should;ve taken way more and given the money to the teams struggling financially.
+Harry Strong Hmm then maybe they should have done the same with McLaren at Hockenheim two years earlier; or should have actually invalidated the race in Singapore that Renault fixed...I didn't see any of that happening though...
Anthony Iuculano Yes, they should've done all that. It's unacceptable when teams break the rules and get away with it.
Yes Harry, I know, but the point is they DIDN'T do all of that. They let those other transgressions slide. McLaren received no sanctions for their own team game, and no race Renault had fixed (the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix) was invalidated (in fact they got off completely scot free) yet Ferrari 'switch' the order of a 1-2 finish and they get a $100k fine and a WMSC hearing. There should be no room in the governance of a sport for the use of double standards, especially ones as blatant as these. Further still, since they didn't do anything for the other two cases, then I will even go as far as to say that there should not even have been the $100k fine for Ferrari. Either impose sanctions equally, or don't impose any at all.
alonso is just great, just put the fact that he needs half the grid to pull over for him aside and he is just fantastic ;)
*"Valtteri, it's James.." has entered the chat.*
Man, finally came across the person who actually understands the point of F1. all I can say is I totally agree with you! Exact same thing Happened between Hamilton and Alonso and What Hamilton did? he took the message and shoved it up teams ass and said we are racing and let the best driver win! this is the spirit of a racing driver. Yes your paycheck based on the construction points but as any racer at the end of the day why he races? he will always reply Honor! not money!
"Ferrari should be ashamed of themselves"
- Eddie "Team Orders" Jordan
There is a clear difference, in case you forgot. It was not illegal in 1998. It became after Austria 2002 (guess which team was the cause of that decision).
Ervine actually fought for a title with Ferrari, 96 or 97 when Schumi was out with injury.
After last weekends German GP, it was pretty ironic to have been recommended this video
They should of fined Ferrari (like they did) and disqualified Alonso from that race.
+Sneezy They should disqualify Hamilton from Germany 2008 then...oh wait, he wouldn't be champion any more.
why would you disqualified alonso ???? he didn't done anything
For team orders they should disqualify constructor for the race, not the drivers.
this is where i don't understand the notion that vettel merely got "lucky" with his championship in 2010, having seized the lead only after the last race in abu dhabi. Mark Webber threw away what looked like a very good points lead at the Korean GP by running wide and crashing. in abu dhabi alonso couldn't find a way past a rookie named petrov, and one thing being swept under the rug is that the victory in Germany was massa's "gift". vettel on the other hand earned all points fair and square.
i like how christian horner says he's against team orders but in 2011 he told mark webber to maintain the gap to vettel when he could have passed him and needed the points more.
Exactly the reason why i don't like team orders inteferring with race results. Asking your teammate to move to let you pass isn't racing..
Why did they introduce it again then
At that time, it did look bad, but as Schumi said, it doesn't matter if it means winning the championship. Because of this race, Alonso was at least 15points ahead of Vettel and 8 ahead of Webber. If there were no team orders, it'd have been 7 points less, and the final result would have been worse. Not that it mattered in the end, but you get the idea.
my first clear memory of F1
@sinner2208 the save fuel message was first given to Hamilton, then Hamilton replied:"if I slow down, is Jenson gonna pass me", they replied "no".That was how Jenson was able to get close to Lewis and start fighting for the first position, because Lewis was told to save fuel, so he slowed down and Jenson got him, after that was that the team gave Jenson the order too...Jenson overtook Lewis, then Lewis overtook Jenson, so there was a fight between the McLarens...we didn't get that from Ferrari
You forgot RedBull teamorder 2010 in turkey?
Just curious as a really new f1 fan. Why are team orders so frowned upon? Other than crashing deliberately or something dangerous like that, I don't see why a team shouldn't be allowed to let teammates pass each other.
They were banned from the 2003 season all the way up till the end of the 2011 season. Main reason people don't like it is it doesn't allow drivers to race against each other. One of the things I like about Merc is that they do allow their drivers to race, hence all the incidents that Rosberg and Hamilton had over the years.
Alonso was faster than Massa, they let Alonso go through. I remember Ralf Schumacher being faster than Damon Hill and they let Damon finish first, that's more of a scandal to me.
Ralf still had to pass Hill, not just catch him, on the (very dificult) track, so they could crash. A team that never won a GP has 1-2 finish why take the risk?
And Ralf was Faster when he was a lot of seconds behind of hill because he was pushing and Hill no, when he closed the gap Hill started to go faster.
Marcel that was when team orders were legal. That was fine. This is breaking the rules. And even that was so they didn't battle, considering the dangerous conditions on the track.
Isma D Keeping Hill in front was arguably more dangerous. It makes more sense to me to release the quicker car and guarantee the win than potentially ending up backed towards a quicker car who wouldn't be so nice about overtaking
That's different. The conditions were treacherous, It would have been a huge risk for them to be racing.
That's because they could've both been taken out in the heavy rain at Spa in 1998.
Anyway, as we are talking about team orders - sometimes, its very helpful, when the engineer reminds you to look after your tyres, especially when you are named Massa ;)
And Ferrari got karma in the final round
Eddie Jordan shouldn't comment on team orders. He said that Ferrari should be ashamed of this, but what about the team orders he gave in Spa 1998
"You have to do it in a way that is nicer, that is not obvious.." that's experience talking!!
Schumacher, you can't comment with all the times you had with Barrichello and Ferrari.
Except there was one big difference - when he and Barrichello did it, it was legal. From 2003 until 2010, team orders were banned, hence why every team up and down the pit lane were demanding both Ferraris be excluded from the race.
If you watch the full interview, Schumacher was defending Ferrari..what you saw here was the BBC 'manipulation'
+Matt Leary hypocrites...they had all used them, some just as 'blatantly', and some even to worse ends (such as race-fixing) without a ban or even so much as a fine...
+Matt Leary hypocrites...they had all used them, some just as 'blatantly', and some even to worse ends (such as race-fixing) without a ban or even so much as a fine...