I mean snake eyez is the top level tournament guy but any serious gief player isn’t gonna be easy to win against, that character is pretty threatening when played well
@@SoDamnGangstaI think they rate characters based on flashiness. Like Ryu and Zangief right are getting like no love on these tier. I keep hearing about Ryu having bad frame data but his basic punches are slightly better the ken on startup. Ken has better kicks tho.
@@almondmilk5315 Platinum is literally "Silver+". There is no difference between a silver and a plat player. They both make the exact same mistakes. In fact Platinum players generally make MORE mistakes than Silver players. I always like to use the "blind kid" analogy. A silver rank player is a blind kid with 1 toy. A platinum rank player is a blind kid with 1000 toys. The plat kid can't tell what the fuck they have but they're gonna play with them anyway.
I always considered myself an intermediate player and played with a few characters, but never focusing on one. I randomly picked Cammy and fell in love with her. Your description of her made me really think about her strengths and had me train more with her.
No its good you do this. I do this too and by doing that, it doesnt get boring and most importantly, you will learn how to fight against them bc you play them too. It works.
don't forget the game allows you to select "random" and rank separately with that selection. mastering all characters in the game is something that Capcom wants us to do, don't forget world tour mode is all about learning their styles and moves!
This is my first fighting game since Soul Calibur IV. Landed on Guile as my main, but I'm honestly having a blast trying to get by with Manon when everyone knows what's coming. I get washed a lot of the time, but the wins feel so good.
I hated fighting against Manon as Marisa so much that I decided to play her out of spite, and it turns out that she's really fun. Her throw is just as addictive as Gladius. Sucks that people have gotten pretty wise to how it works now though.
OK, but, as a counterpoint, Gief has like eight different kinds of grabs in this game and they all look sweet. On any Style tier list my man is at least an A+.
It feels to me like Marissa works much better than Manon at what Manon wants to do in regards to putting the opponent in a blender with the threat of a command grab. She just trades a little command grab damage for massive damage off easy confirms. Meanwhile Manon's super meter hungry for both damage and pressure.
Manon main myself and I feel this. The command grab being my punish counter here and there is cute and all, but end of the day, the medals are a gimmick, and Marisa's raw consistency at cashing in on openings feels way better in almost every situation
Well said on manon. She is placed high by a lot of ppl because they think theyre guessing for their life all the time. Finally a content creator that actually knows the character. You da goat
Can confirm. The fear of being grabbed is actually a grappler's strongest asset because their normals and specials generally are pretty good too, they just have mobility issues. I would say Gief is still pretty good and well balanced for this game; the fun of a Grappler archetype isn't them being a top tier you can abuse and they have historically never been top tier, but it is out-reading and mindgaming your opponent into mistakes. It was one of the reasons I loved Astaroth in Soul Calibur 5. People tried to stay away from you because they feared the grabs and grab combos but forgot Astaroth had colossal range on his normals and could harass at a distance on top of having charge moves that depleted block gauge like nothing. They are effectively a sweat check; if the player is hyper concerned about the matchup and forgets/doesn't know how to play it, they will lose. If they are decent though, people like the uphill challenge of that.
thank you for recognizing dhalsim the way i see him. with the teleport simplified im all over, and learning some of those fchamp set ups from sfv. hes a lot of fun, and still difficult to master.
Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but with Manon's SHK punish counter she has enough of a frame advantage where at moderate distances she can go straight into drive rush SLP into back HP to Renversé for a medal and 2,675 damage.
@@Rotary_Lover_89 dont ever do that, that is as terrible option. Its unsafe on block, Di punishable and there's no damage. Its better to empty DR into S.HP, its safe to DI, safe on block, they have to block it, you cant jump it. You need to lab out the counter DI to get the timing right.
I appreciate him getting into the notable modern variations on characters. I wish he would make a tier list for what characters are modern or classic viable. I really want people to normalize making tierlists with two versions of every character, one modern, one classic.
Well, Modern is really all about getting rid of the execution barrier, so unless the character can benefit from reactionary supers (such as Luke), they generally won't benefit much from being Modern. So I would probably say that most characters probably won't change from their position, save for maybe a couple, and even then, it's won't move much.
You're gonna have to see more modern players in plat and masters for that to happen. That essentially doubles the amount of characters. I think BrianF has a modern tier list but he doesn't play modern so its mostly theory. ANIMEILLUMINATI plays modern and covers alot of modern stuff so if you're interested in modern that would be the spot. I wouldn't figure you'd see alot of modern stuff from people grinding tournaments and ranked though because you just don't see many in the higher tiers which means familiarity is way down and will rely on theory to rank.
@@polkunus Lol. Sure thing. I barely watch the dude, only found him with the release of SF6. But hes one of the few English speakers covering Japan, and he's definitely better than me (and probably you if we're being honest) soooo that doesn't really sound like a "content vulture" to me?
@@rochops9834 the trick is to press KK with forward to save time on entering the forward input after you start running. so all together it looks like this : =>+KK, down, diagonal fwd, K. then the super or shoryu after is just about learning to buffer the directional inputs for the super and timing the punch/kick button to trigger it right when you land from the dragonlash. hope that helped :)
What Justin forgot to mention here: Just because your character is low tier does not mean its trash and is useless against everybody. This game is actually better balanced than what people thought, so even Low Tiers can put up a good fight without THAT much effort.
My thing with Manon is doing ex launch kick into the qcb kicks. If they don't roll back, I can do different meaty timings to be plus. If they do roll back they are basically in the corner. If she had slightly better scaling on her juggles, or slightly better juggles in general, I think she'd be top tier ez. Or even better, let her have access to her other kicks in ex form. For being a "power type" her damage is actually kind of ass outside of 4-5 medal throws and niche punish counters.
Idom probably picked her because she is the most Laura like character, but the problem is like you said, Laura actually had other tools outside of command grabs that actually do decent damage.
To think there are still people that think her medals should reset between rounds, even though she needs at least 3 before she does more damage than non grapple characters command throws.
I think this is a great tier list what you said for kim and manon are sentiments i share as well..i personally hope they don't nerf characters but just buff the lower tier like make manon kim and lily ex Dp's invincible as a start...Also with rashid due soon consider really making lily wind powers relevant in comparison else no one is going to play her
Bruh just cause they share the wind element doesn't mean shit for their archetypes. Rashid looks to be rushdown monster while lily plays a grappling/keep away game.
@@abdulazizmohammed8797 I understand that but as an archtype how is lily is she good at anything, her wind powers gimmick is lackluster at best, she doesn't need to be a crazy rushdown just make her utilize it better
@@raizen5371 Im doing ok with her in ranked,...its just a third of the roster is OP with all sorts of BS. She's got a dp, good range, command grab, that jump back condor dive glitch, condor spire combo, massive and easy to use HP AA, aa level 2....She's just rough when cornered.
PSA: Don't worry if your character is considered low-tier. Never forget what happened in Tekken 7: Panda won a major tournament in the hands of Rangchu.
Panda was like not very played and got that inexperience fighting against advantaged. My character is low tier and hella played. I’m screwed in both angles lol.
This ain't Tekken any character is capable of winning in that game..This is Sf6 and that is not the case..Gief is not winning with juri,ken,jp,luke its literally impossible
@@tryingtochangemyways5074Literally saw Snake eyes smoke a Luke player in a recent tournament. Your argument is too extreme, in general the match up is unfavorable but nothing is impossible just unlikely
I’d move a few characters around but I mostly agree, solid list, if your character is lower tho do not be discouraged from playing them as I honestly think any of these characters can win a tournament
@@jamaledwards8118 sucks that Manon has a hit grab but not many ways to combo into it without using 3 drive bars Also, I notice that grapplers are consistently bottom tier in SF specifically... in GG, Potemkin is good but in sf, Alex sucks, Hugo is mid, Zangief was never great after 4, and Manon isn't great either
@@jamaledwards8118Lily is a couple of tweaks from being very scary. If people aren't willing to drive reversal she can quickly blockstring you into the corner which as we know is a horrible spot in SF6.
as a gief main I respect this list...my boy doesnt have any low cancellable normal, lariat doesnt hit behind and the only time people respect your wake up is when you have lvl 3 super
@@gooseherdez336 If you do lariat on your avatar in WT, it hits from behind, which means they probably changed that late in development.Speaking as a gief main, I say bring it back
@@ethanchang8092 my first time playing this game I played world tour and used gief's lariat and was RUDELY surprised by gief's worst lariat in online play
As a Zangief main, it is with great pride that I will face every opponents with passion. The weakest and the strongest. No matter what, I will never hide myself behind a tier list to justify my defeat, as good as it is. I will humbly accept the victory with a smile, and hold a hand to the fighter laying on the ground. The lower we are in a list, the highter is the challenge. It is all that matters ! хорошо ! 🐻
Pretty good list! I think JP is in top too. The fact everyone is gonna bait EX counter extra hard means you can just wake up buttons and steal turns. JP gets to play more than any other character. Plus he's got some really gross setups, guaranteed drive impacts, unblockables with level 2, scary high lows that give combos in the corner with ghosts. He does DAMAGE too.
I know my weakness in sf6. I play ryu. Though I do win a fair amount, I feel like I get cheesed by so much BS. I’m struggling at Diamond 4, and I feel like I only made it this far with him because the best players are already Master. I need to pick up someone else.
Thank you, Justin. I've been hearing people say Chun can fight everybody but then call her weak. And then people are saying dhalsim is weak, and I'm like "go check out champ's sim and tell me he's weak". I don't buy it. Lily, I'm starting to come around to because combofiend's lily is a menace. All in all, great list. Stay blessed.
Having an absolute blast with Cammy. I haven't really touched Ken or Guile or Juri, those are the ones I really want to play next. I've been blasting through World Tour lately more than playing online, which has helped me learn to play Chun. Still fun playing Kim and Manon even if Capcom did them dirty. Great rundown of each character, I'm always interested in learning more of everyone's strengths and weaknesses.
First ever fighting game and i picked ken just cos he looked awesome to me when someone plays him well .and yeah im having trouble learning rushes like you said 😢
I only play classic and the most amusing thing happened to me. At the start, I got gold with Zangief. And Bronze with Ken. I was always a shoto player. Fun days I must say. Amusing.
Just got to plat 1 with Cammy, who I picked as my main on launch day. All I can say is, I agree with all of Justin’s points, and godamn did I pick right.
@@fozymilograno zangief is definitely worse. Manon is there or there abouts. Not really worth arguing over. Notice I said "probably the most accurate" and not 100% perfect? Ummmm yeahhhhhhh, that's because there's always someone somewhere about to start contesting stuff.
As a 90s arcade kid, I love when fighter fans use move names. “Bazooka Knee” yup. Justin, please make some Ryu videos. I guess he sucks but it’s too late and I need good corner combos after wall splat
Thank you for putting Kimberly where she belongs. Way too many people get mixed once and claim she’s god tier. Your point about spending resources is very true. She also gets outfootsied by the entire cast due to stubby normals. Her block strings have holes in them even while spending meter, and her teleports don’t even low crush and lose to mashed jabs too. Oh, and she’s susceptible to drive impacts/ parries on most of her pressure. She baaaaaaaad when it comes to risk/reward. She’s a completely neutered rushdown character once you figure out the matchup. All that aside, I think this game is very well balanced for a first iteration and one or two small tweaks could move her up to mid/high mid.
Legitimately don't get the Kimberly hate or complaints. Justin is right. She's just knowledge check: the character. And as the game gets played more, all she has are her gimmicks which leaves her in a tough spot. Those that get their booties sore probably haven't played enough to understand. In time they too will see the many holes Kim's toolset has. I say this as a Kimberly main. I still love her gameplay, but I just don't get the rage she initially got in the full release lmao.
You mentioned Hakan'ing Jamie, I actually think Lily is the one who'd benefit more. Already having 1 or 2 wind stock when starting the round would help her worst match-ups, especially Guile where the actual best strategy is just M Wind Dancing into Sonic Booms to accumulate Wind Stocks.
@@Boom_OH No she wouldn't. I remember thinking this while playing a Juri: "A Juri with no meter, no stocks, and in burn-out is a better character than Lily with full drive gauge, 3 stocks, and 3 meters."
That assessment of JP was spot on. I main him but I swear, as soon as I hit Diamond, players were bodying me off 1 hard read. Plus it’s hard to come back if they know the match up.
Agree with pretty much all! Would love if you made a video of you playing Modern Ryu. Really intrigued to hear your reasoning for him being better in Modern.
Everyone sleeping on Jamie, bro is a few tiny buffs away from being insane. Like improve a few of his hitbox/hurtboxes even slightly will skyrocket him. I have been playing him since day one and literal terror fills the opponent when he lets his hair down.
@@vuton7670 i think his target combo needs special scaling because with how light attacks scale in this game, and how many different ways you can combo into it, it just kinda butchers his damage output, especially at drinks 1-3
I like Zangief in this one but it really feels like he got the short end of the stick on everything except his damage output (and even that, Marisa probably does more just from a basic combo). Most characters could pull entire combos before cancelling into Drive Impact but Zangief can only do that with his LP. At least make his mid kick (probably the only decent thing he has regarding range) cancellable into Drive Impact. Also it really feels like his timing to combo is extremely specific, compared to other characters that feel like you could wait a solid second and their combo will still continue. Almost every single button he has is punishable. Like even a blocked mid-kick can be punished. When there are other characters that have safe supers, specials, heavies, you can't give the man a safe normal to push the other players? Worst of all, his lariat which is his only major weapon in this, only attacks from the front. Why? At least give him that, it would make people think twice about jumping towards you. But shit doesn't stop there. His level one super has the most insanely tiny window to connect I've ever seen. To be honest I am still not sure when it connects. Tried it on players jumping from multiple distances and it's still not clear to me when it actually connects. When they attempt a cross up? Nope. A long completely unsafe jump? Nope. Right above me? Nope. I really have no idea. Don't get me wrong, I can still win, I am at Gold 5 and moving forward slowly (mostly because I rarely sit down to play) but just like with R. Mika in V I only bother because I enjoy how he plays but he is really not viable if you aim for the top tiers in the game. Maybe with modern controls but I don't really want to use those.
in my opinion the worst character right now is Rashid, he's literally unplayable, and i can't wait for capcom to release the promised patch that makes him a viable pick
Jamie classic is the most underrated. If you master his DP and Tenshin then he's unbeatable. Drinks aren't difficult to get really. Drinks make him higher tier, obviously. And I've seen Jamie win a tournament against some strong names.
lol According to data from late June, Jamie had the worst winrate of all characters among Master ranked players, playing against others Master and Diamond... he only has 4 favorable match-ups overall : Cammy, Ryu, Gief and Lily... he loses most of the time against the rest of the roster.
I love Manon but I have to agree with her spot. Manon is my main but I’ve been playing Marisa lately and I can just tell it’s easier to win with Marisa.
It hurts to see Manon so low since she was the character I couldn't wait to main when the game launched, but I have to agree with her placement. Manon is still my main, but I'm learning Chun-Li. It'll be an uphill battle, but loving the tools Chun has
I'm very sad about Zangief, I was having a great time until I reached Gold, then back to silver. Jab Cross-up kick is the bane of my existence, cannot super, cannot jab (like necalli), cannot down fierce, all I can do is jump back short kick, and that gets countered by long kick real hard, or the damage for the tiny kick won't stop people. At least let the lariat hit behind damn it!
28/08/2023 temporary result of capcom cup participant , there is kimberli , ryu & zangif got a spot in capcom cup. the tier list still has an effect but if the top players are playing then the results can change.this is not mocking the tier list maker but you can enter the tournament with all characters if you try optimally. You (the player) determine whether the character is strong or not
in diamond, guile is one of the characters i fear the least. his game plan is universal, and you never find guiles that truely randomize perfect/regular sonic booms in chains, this could become more potent in a lan situation i will admit. I think him and jp are both on the outside looking in of top 5, and thats a good thing. a zoner being the most optimal strategy in a fighting game is terrible; however, you also dont want zoners being terrible where people still have to play a little bit different. This balance was nailed by capcom with jp and guile. they could win, but it takes the right player and the right bracket for that to happen. They both still have some straight garbage matchups that could put them in losers or knock them out without a pocket counter. almost every time i lose to guile, i feel like its purely because they were the better player, and had nothing to do with guile himself.
I play Manon myself, and I have to admit, yeah. I think her biggest weakness is her neutral as trying to get in can be almost impossible at times, personally I would like to see her Drive Rush be made faster so it's easier for her to get in that way, but aside from that I mean, nothing else sticks out aside from maybe her big command grab being near exclusively a punish tool (which shouldn't change because imagine being able to combo into 5 medal command grab Jesus)
As a casual viewer randomly finding this video, it would have been nice to see video examples of everything talked about, but I get that would be lots of extra work.
Always with the lowdown as always JW, Gonna try to win with Zangief at my locals still (also for future tier lists, please fullscreen the actual list, that way you loose the whitespace & the banner ads )
I love that Dhalsim is finally getting some respect. All the early tier lists put him near the bottom mainly because hardly anyone had used him so no one really knew what he could do.
For Manon right if you're not going to make crouching mk, and standing hk cancellable then they need to be plus on hit and block regardless of spacing. Its like they said hey lets make a character that has a stock system that carries over between rounds that amps up her damage on only TWO moves then make all her other moves either non cancellable/negative you know because Level 5 Demon Wheel go brr...
Although Cammy has tons of tools, I feel like she has to work harder to get the same damage as other characters. So execution heavy that you have more opportunity for mistakes.
very true hence I dunno why some ppl rank cammy S. I seen so many Cammy in tournaments now. Cammy is struggling so hard to get in top8. She is just not a character to use for that 1 big money prize.
Its funny cause I thought the same at the beginning but once you play others (I did with Chun) I realised cammy is ultra busted although she doesnt do alot of damage (per hit) she can combo in basically everything a spirral arrow and her crossup od dp is INSANE, I miss that the most from playing chun her dp is aaaaaaaass. Cammy is busted and I somewhere regret going to Chun because Cammy is simply better but not by much by any means but well in the end I play whats more fun. Disclaimer this is my personal experience from playing both
Well yea she has unlimited amount of tools . Damn near combos from anything . Of course she ain’t going to do heavy damage . Even tho I’ve been 50% pretty easily by cammy combos
@@LycorisOW There is a Reddit post about a Gief jumping in on a Chun, the Chun does her DP and Gief slips right in between her kicks. Really stupid how bad they made Chun's DP.
I grew up with street fighter bit this is the first game that im gonna actually and try to learn. Ive always been afraid of playing competitive. I want to be a juri main because o love her design. (Insert real reason why people play her meme). I really want to try and improve with her.
![ILLSLICK - KILLSHOT REMIX [FULL VERSION]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/RIK8RrqIAzE/mqdefault.jpg)
A month since the release of SF6, I’ve learned that tier lists don’t matter if I’m bad with every character. 🎉🎉🎉
That's the spirit. Now you get it!
it doesn't but it also does
the 5 character people said are top tier are still top after a month
but again, we will see after another month
My thoughts too. Teir lists don't matter if you're bad at the game. At low level, it's just a test of who has better fundies.
Based
True! I got bodied by a Gief player on ranked 😢
Finally, a tier list I can take seriously. Too many people either downplaying or exaggerating characters.
I love how Justin has to admit Snake Eyez is just that good to be able to make Zangief good
I mean snake eyez is the top level tournament guy but any serious gief player isn’t gonna be easy to win against, that character is pretty threatening when played well
Zangief is the only character I was able to achieve platinum in any fighting game like ever. He's slept on.
@@SoDamnGangstaI think they rate characters based on flashiness. Like Ryu and Zangief right are getting like no love on these tier. I keep hearing about Ryu having bad frame data but his basic punches are slightly better the ken on startup. Ken has better kicks tho.
Even snake eyes switched to evil ryu in sf4. I'm sure he has a pocket character he'll bust out if needed
@@almondmilk5315 Platinum is literally "Silver+". There is no difference between a silver and a plat player. They both make the exact same mistakes. In fact Platinum players generally make MORE mistakes than Silver players.
I always like to use the "blind kid" analogy.
A silver rank player is a blind kid with 1 toy.
A platinum rank player is a blind kid with 1000 toys.
The plat kid can't tell what the fuck they have but they're gonna play with them anyway.
I always considered myself an intermediate player and played with a few characters, but never focusing on one. I randomly picked Cammy and fell in love with her. Your description of her made me really think about her strengths and had me train more with her.
No its good you do this. I do this too and by doing that, it doesnt get boring and most importantly, you will learn how to fight against them bc you play them too. It works.
don't forget the game allows you to select "random" and rank separately with that selection. mastering all characters in the game is something that Capcom wants us to do, don't forget world tour mode is all about learning their styles and moves!
Yeah "randomly" picked cammy 😉
@@Similarity_ that win animation is a thirst trap
@@Similarity_randomly picked that big booty
This is my first fighting game since Soul Calibur IV. Landed on Guile as my main, but I'm honestly having a blast trying to get by with Manon when everyone knows what's coming. I get washed a lot of the time, but the wins feel so good.
Guile remains the most consistent character of all time. You can never regret picking him.
Is true
I ain’t pay $60 to hold downback, Remove this character from the game
@@ThePlasticBowllmaoooo as a Marisa main, I agree with you beyond belief.
Damn, who would've thought that rushdown-zoner would be a broken archetype
@@LaughingGasFunny fought a guile with Marisa earlier. I feel you bro. Even with armour and anti fireball tech, shit was horrible.
I hated fighting against Manon as Marisa so much that I decided to play her out of spite, and it turns out that she's really fun. Her throw is just as addictive as Gladius. Sucks that people have gotten pretty wise to how it works now though.
Lame
Everybody run! Justin Wong made another tier list! Run for your life!
OK, but, as a counterpoint, Gief has like eight different kinds of grabs in this game and they all look sweet. On any Style tier list my man is at least an A+.
My man got the glasses going crazy putting this tier list together
It feels to me like Marissa works much better than Manon at what Manon wants to do in regards to putting the opponent in a blender with the threat of a command grab. She just trades a little command grab damage for massive damage off easy confirms. Meanwhile Manon's super meter hungry for both damage and pressure.
Manon main myself and I feel this. The command grab being my punish counter here and there is cute and all, but end of the day, the medals are a gimmick, and Marisa's raw consistency at cashing in on openings feels way better in almost every situation
Manon just needs a grab and it's done
Well said on manon. She is placed high by a lot of ppl because they think theyre guessing for their life all the time. Finally a content creator that actually knows the character.
You da goat
But of course he’s the most decorated fighting game player of all time.
“Content creator” 😂. Jwong is the real deal my man.
@@KARS215 i know who he is lmao.
He is also a content creator.
Sad thing about Gief is that for as long as you make sure you’re ready to counter all grab attempts, you already have half the game in the bag.
Yeah, but with grapplers the threat of the grab is more often than not, better than the grab.
Can confirm. The fear of being grabbed is actually a grappler's strongest asset because their normals and specials generally are pretty good too, they just have mobility issues. I would say Gief is still pretty good and well balanced for this game; the fun of a Grappler archetype isn't them being a top tier you can abuse and they have historically never been top tier, but it is out-reading and mindgaming your opponent into mistakes.
It was one of the reasons I loved Astaroth in Soul Calibur 5. People tried to stay away from you because they feared the grabs and grab combos but forgot Astaroth had colossal range on his normals and could harass at a distance on top of having charge moves that depleted block gauge like nothing. They are effectively a sweat check; if the player is hyper concerned about the matchup and forgets/doesn't know how to play it, they will lose. If they are decent though, people like the uphill challenge of that.
Yeah Manon is a bit of a struggle now that people know what to do
Get yo fakeass mixups outta here
She kinda sucks now. Everyone reversals or DP her DR or vacuum mixups
Ill never forgive Snake Eyez for making me believe I could survive ranked as a Gief main
I made diamond with gief modern lol
hard stuck Plat 2
thank you for recognizing dhalsim the way i see him. with the teleport simplified im all over, and learning some of those fchamp set ups from sfv. hes a lot of fun, and still difficult to master.
8:58 chun li is SCARY. 32 hit combo with 1 maybe 2 uses of drive rush and sometimes her ults
Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but with Manon's SHK punish counter she has enough of a frame advantage where at moderate distances she can go straight into drive rush SLP into back HP to Renversé for a medal and 2,675 damage.
Don't forget to qcb hk after any command grab to challenge their wake up
@@Rotary_Lover_89 free DI
@@hooplah7612 maybe after gold no one checks under gold rank. They just button mash crouch block or jump it catches all three of those.
@@Rotary_Lover_89 dont ever do that, that is as terrible option. Its unsafe on block, Di punishable and there's no damage. Its better to empty DR into S.HP, its safe to DI, safe on block, they have to block it, you cant jump it. You need to lab out the counter DI to get the timing right.
@@polkunus yeah you can DI that option and I should lab other options to mix. Thank you.
I appreciate him getting into the notable modern variations on characters. I wish he would make a tier list for what characters are modern or classic viable.
I really want people to normalize making tierlists with two versions of every character, one modern, one classic.
Well, Modern is really all about getting rid of the execution barrier, so unless the character can benefit from reactionary supers (such as Luke), they generally won't benefit much from being Modern. So I would probably say that most characters probably won't change from their position, save for maybe a couple, and even then, it's won't move much.
The top 2 modern characters are luke and lily because they barely lose anything
You're gonna have to see more modern players in plat and masters for that to happen. That essentially doubles the amount of characters. I think BrianF has a modern tier list but he doesn't play modern so its mostly theory. ANIMEILLUMINATI plays modern and covers alot of modern stuff so if you're interested in modern that would be the spot. I wouldn't figure you'd see alot of modern stuff from people grinding tournaments and ranked though because you just don't see many in the higher tiers which means familiarity is way down and will rely on theory to rank.
@@Sharrd anime is trash at the game tho, he's just a content vulture
@@polkunus Lol. Sure thing. I barely watch the dude, only found him with the release of SF6. But hes one of the few English speakers covering Japan, and he's definitely better than me (and probably you if we're being honest) soooo that doesn't really sound like a "content vulture" to me?
Great explanations, love the unbiased fun and enthusiasm you use to break it down! Love the content bro
5:12 I'm so glad I'm not the only one who thinks his run combos are hard to get used to
I cry a bit everytime I see a ken hit the run dragonlance into super or shoryu while I only do the kick kick kick thing
Really easy on stick but on controller it’s better to map run
@@rochops9834 the trick is to press KK with forward to save time on entering the forward input after you start running. so all together it looks like this : =>+KK, down, diagonal fwd, K. then the super or shoryu after is just about learning to buffer the directional inputs for the super and timing the punch/kick button to trigger it right when you land from the dragonlash. hope that helped :)
@@HedonkeviikI gotten soo use to right trigger and x for run it’s not even funny 😂
For me his jinrai loops are harder, especially the heavy version
What Justin forgot to mention here:
Just because your character is low tier does not mean its trash and is useless against everybody. This game is actually better balanced than what people thought, so even Low Tiers can put up a good fight without THAT much effort.
Of course...tier lists only really matter to the very top payers.
Low Tier God can't though. He's always trash
My thing with Manon is doing ex launch kick into the qcb kicks. If they don't roll back, I can do different meaty timings to be plus. If they do roll back they are basically in the corner. If she had slightly better scaling on her juggles, or slightly better juggles in general, I think she'd be top tier ez. Or even better, let her have access to her other kicks in ex form. For being a "power type" her damage is actually kind of ass outside of 4-5 medal throws and niche punish counters.
Buff Manon!
Idom probably picked her because she is the most Laura like character, but the problem is like you said, Laura actually had other tools outside of command grabs that actually do decent damage.
To think there are still people that think her medals should reset between rounds, even though she needs at least 3 before she does more damage than non grapple characters command throws.
noob question but what's a meaty timing (besides a way to avoid over or undercooking dinner)?
@@kevinkalanishe has tools, they just aren't as oppressive as Laura's projectile.
an Inverted pyramid is a really good indicator for a game's Balance on launch... so few games EVER look like this
Fighting games have been a little too fair and balanced for quite some time now. Getting close to a decade already
Launch is fine for most. DLCs bring the risk.
I think this is a great tier list what you said for kim and manon are sentiments i share as well..i personally hope they don't nerf characters but just buff the lower tier like make manon kim and lily ex Dp's invincible as a start...Also with rashid due soon consider really making lily wind powers relevant in comparison else no one is going to play her
Bruh just cause they share the wind element doesn't mean shit for their archetypes. Rashid looks to be rushdown monster while lily plays a grappling/keep away game.
@@abdulazizmohammed8797 I understand that but as an archtype how is lily is she good at anything, her wind powers gimmick is lackluster at best, she doesn't need to be a crazy rushdown just make her utilize it better
@@raizen5371 Im doing ok with her in ranked,...its just a third of the roster is OP with all sorts of BS. She's got a dp, good range, command grab, that jump back condor dive glitch, condor spire combo, massive and easy to use HP AA, aa level 2....She's just rough when cornered.
No way manon and Kimberly not better than Jamie
There is nothing to buff at the moment. The game is fairly balanced because the game is relating to core mechanics that every characters have.
PSA: Don't worry if your character is considered low-tier. Never forget what happened in Tekken 7: Panda won a major tournament in the hands of Rangchu.
And cause her small legs made harder for devil jin combos. No regular use means you oponnent got no experience against your style/freamedata
Panda was like not very played and got that inexperience fighting against advantaged. My character is low tier and hella played. I’m screwed in both angles lol.
@@Justicejuice179 Yeah, not like Zangief is gonna catch people unawares. "HOW DO I FIGHT AGAINST THIS GUY?! Oh yeah, avoid SPD."
This ain't Tekken any character is capable of winning in that game..This is Sf6 and that is not the case..Gief is not winning with juri,ken,jp,luke its literally impossible
@@tryingtochangemyways5074Literally saw Snake eyes smoke a Luke player in a recent tournament.
Your argument is too extreme, in general the match up is unfavorable but nothing is impossible just unlikely
JWong has the correct take on modern vs classic
The Guile underplay recently went crazy, finally he gets put where he belongs.
Guile is a rushdown-zoner, no weaknesses fr.
I’d move a few characters around but I mostly agree, solid list, if your character is lower tho do not be discouraged from playing them as I honestly think any of these characters can win a tournament
Zangief, Manon, and Lily are not winning any majors. Small tournaments yes, online yes, ranks matches yes. Majors.....no
@@jamaledwards8118 sucks that Manon has a hit grab but not many ways to combo into it without using 3 drive bars
Also, I notice that grapplers are consistently bottom tier in SF specifically... in GG, Potemkin is good but in sf, Alex sucks, Hugo is mid, Zangief was never great after 4, and Manon isn't great either
@@jamaledwards8118Lily is a couple of tweaks from being very scary. If people aren't willing to drive reversal she can quickly blockstring you into the corner which as we know is a horrible spot in SF6.
I don't care how low Chun-Li is I'm still going to play her.. I wanna feel like a kung fu master
@@66ixty9ine Alex is very good in SFV, high tier arguable, but other than that personality I prefer grapplers to be low tier
as a gief main I respect this list...my boy doesnt have any low cancellable normal, lariat doesnt hit behind and the only time people respect your wake up is when you have lvl 3 super
I would be happy just with a lariat fix. It just doesn't make sense to not hit behind, is the same goddamn arms.
@@gooseherdez336 If you do lariat on your avatar in WT, it hits from behind, which means they probably changed that late in development.Speaking as a gief main, I say bring it back
@@ethanchang8092I dont even play gief, but he definitely needs that. Its BS for kens running tatsu to hit behind but lariat doesn't 😂
@@ethanchang8092 my first time playing this game I played world tour and used gief's lariat and was RUDELY surprised by gief's worst lariat in online play
Geif also takes longer to get out of burnout. They nerfed Gief in every way possible and he STILL doesn’t have green hand lol.
As a Zangief main, it is with great pride that I will face every opponents with passion. The weakest and the strongest.
No matter what, I will never hide myself behind a tier list to justify my defeat, as good as it is.
I will humbly accept the victory with a smile, and hold a hand to the fighter laying on the ground.
The lower we are in a list, the highter is the challenge.
It is all that matters !
хорошо ! 🐻
respect that SPD
Zangief is good imagine being carried
SPD means Love
Большой Победа!
NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE, NOT IF YOU KEEP TRAINING!
PUSH!
GOOD THINGS AWAIT YOU!
I love seeing Ken as #5 in the tier list!
A brain dead char is now a brain dead strong char.
Solid tier list.
THANK YOU
All I needed to hear was Justin say “you can’t punish the boom”.
your headphones making your glasses crooked keeps making me crazy
Also something that a lot don’t know is Marisa has an advancing attack that armors against fireballs and sends the opponent to corner.
Pretty good list! I think JP is in top too. The fact everyone is gonna bait EX counter extra hard means you can just wake up buttons and steal turns. JP gets to play more than any other character. Plus he's got some really gross setups, guaranteed drive impacts, unblockables with level 2, scary high lows that give combos in the corner with ghosts. He does DAMAGE too.
"how do I beat JP he's too good!"
"just bait the wakeup OD counter lol"
"but what if he doesn't counter on wakeup..."
"uhhhh good luck lmao"
@@BronzeAgePepper Characters that can't get in trying to bait the counter from full screen lmao
I agree with the top tier as I feel the same way, it's a pretty solid list.
This is the best breakdown for a game this balanced!!! $1 Million characters 😂
I like this video. Justin sounds like the crazy guy at the corner talking about how there's voices coming from his teeth fillings.
I know my weakness in sf6. I play ryu. Though I do win a fair amount, I feel like I get cheesed by so much BS. I’m struggling at Diamond 4, and I feel like I only made it this far with him because the best players are already Master.
I need to pick up someone else.
Never give up! Good luck with your fighting journey
Nah man, go check ranked leaderboards, there's a few Ryus in top 100
Don't give up on em Ryu still slaps. Just lab those perfect parries
Ryu is cheap
0:51 oh cool J Wong wore his static TV T-shirt.
Coming into this game after it had been out for 2 months, lol what the hell were people thinking when they thought manon was top tier.
Thank you, Justin. I've been hearing people say Chun can fight everybody but then call her weak. And then people are saying dhalsim is weak, and I'm like "go check out champ's sim and tell me he's weak". I don't buy it.
Lily, I'm starting to come around to because combofiend's lily is a menace.
All in all, great list.
Stay blessed.
Having an absolute blast with Cammy. I haven't really touched Ken or Guile or Juri, those are the ones I really want to play next. I've been blasting through World Tour lately more than playing online, which has helped me learn to play Chun. Still fun playing Kim and Manon even if Capcom did them dirty. Great rundown of each character, I'm always interested in learning more of everyone's strengths and weaknesses.
Finally a tier list that makes sense and with good arguments.
Thank you for adjusting your glasses. I couldn't focus on anything else. 🤣
quality as always bro. a pleasure to exist at the same time as you.
Getting Blanka to plantinum 2 almost 3 has been quite the journey. I think hes a STRONG A
Brian_F and Justin have the best FGC analysis content by far..
Very accurate list 👌
"OD Spinning Knuckle is the best anti-projectile move in the world"
Lily: (OD Windclad) CONDOR SPIRE! 😭
Sadly spire can be baited for a dp, It loses to so much stuff if used raw.
Its hard seeing lilly, ryu, and kimberly so low. Those are my toughest match ups! But justins the man, he knows whats up
First ever fighting game and i picked ken just cos he looked awesome to me when someone plays him well .and yeah im having trouble learning rushes like you said 😢
I only play classic and the most amusing thing happened to me.
At the start, I got gold with Zangief. And Bronze with Ken.
I was always a shoto player.
Fun days I must say. Amusing.
Ouch!! I'm almost plat5 with classic Ryu. Real talk hurts! I just miss #4 Sagat
Yea as a ryu main that hurt 💀
Same lol . He’s not lying tho . Those other characters make it feel like why is Ryu even in here
Just got to plat 1 with Cammy, who I picked as my main on launch day. All I can say is, I agree with all of Justin’s points, and godamn did I pick right.
I rarely agree with tier lists, but this is probably the most accurate tier list I've seen so far.
No way! If Lily is better than Manon and Zangief, so there is something really wrong.
@@fozymilograno zangief is definitely worse. Manon is there or there abouts. Not really worth arguing over. Notice I said "probably the most accurate" and not 100% perfect?
Ummmm yeahhhhhhh, that's because there's always someone somewhere about to start contesting stuff.
As a 90s arcade kid, I love when fighter fans use move names. “Bazooka Knee” yup. Justin, please make some Ryu videos. I guess he sucks but it’s too late and I need good corner combos after wall splat
Thank you for putting Kimberly where she belongs. Way too many people get mixed once and claim she’s god tier.
Your point about spending resources is very true. She also gets outfootsied by the entire cast due to stubby normals. Her block strings have holes in them even while spending meter, and her teleports don’t even low crush and lose to mashed jabs too. Oh, and she’s susceptible to drive impacts/ parries on most of her pressure. She baaaaaaaad when it comes to risk/reward.
She’s a completely neutered rushdown character once you figure out the matchup.
All that aside, I think this game is very well balanced for a first iteration and one or two small tweaks could move her up to mid/high mid.
Legitimately don't get the Kimberly hate or complaints. Justin is right. She's just knowledge check: the character. And as the game gets played more, all she has are her gimmicks which leaves her in a tough spot. Those that get their booties sore probably haven't played enough to understand. In time they too will see the many holes Kim's toolset has.
I say this as a Kimberly main. I still love her gameplay, but I just don't get the rage she initially got in the full release lmao.
She was top tier in the beta, they nerf alot of moves.
Yo Justin man, your elaborate explanation on this list was godtier lol. Keep it up.
The game is pretty balance to be a vanilla version, all characters can win tournaments (some have a easier time, but others need to work more to win)
I hope Capcom tweaks Zangief’s lariat hitbox. My man is literally spinning around 360 in a constant motion, so how can the back side not hit?
You mentioned Hakan'ing Jamie, I actually think Lily is the one who'd benefit more. Already having 1 or 2 wind stock when starting the round would help her worst match-ups, especially Guile where the actual best strategy is just M Wind Dancing into Sonic Booms to accumulate Wind Stocks.
Yea she needs wind stocks to apply pressure and confirm off lights without spending drive gauge, Other characters get that for free.
She would end up broken
@@Boom_OH No she wouldn't. I remember thinking this while playing a Juri: "A Juri with no meter, no stocks, and in burn-out is a better character than Lily with full drive gauge, 3 stocks, and 3 meters."
That assessment of JP was spot on. I main him but I swear, as soon as I hit Diamond, players were bodying me off 1 hard read. Plus it’s hard to come back if they know the match up.
Agree with pretty much all! Would love if you made a video of you playing Modern Ryu. Really intrigued to hear your reasoning for him being better in Modern.
As Kimberly main, I can confirm that im burned out after every combo. I do throw loops and bomb set ups just to buy time
My only hope is that everyone continues to play what they like and not play characters based on anyone's tier list.
Everyone sleeping on Jamie, bro is a few tiny buffs away from being insane. Like improve a few of his hitbox/hurtboxes even slightly will skyrocket him. I have been playing him since day one and literal terror fills the opponent when he lets his hair down.
with his TC, raw DI or rush is asking for it
@@vuton7670 i think his target combo needs special scaling because with how light attacks scale in this game, and how many different ways you can combo into it, it just kinda butchers his damage output, especially at drinks 1-3
WOW! Surprised with what you said about Manon. I thought she'd join Chun and Cammy as one of your waifus.
I like Zangief in this one but it really feels like he got the short end of the stick on everything except his damage output (and even that, Marisa probably does more just from a basic combo). Most characters could pull entire combos before cancelling into Drive Impact but Zangief can only do that with his LP. At least make his mid kick (probably the only decent thing he has regarding range) cancellable into Drive Impact. Also it really feels like his timing to combo is extremely specific, compared to other characters that feel like you could wait a solid second and their combo will still continue.
Almost every single button he has is punishable. Like even a blocked mid-kick can be punished. When there are other characters that have safe supers, specials, heavies, you can't give the man a safe normal to push the other players? Worst of all, his lariat which is his only major weapon in this, only attacks from the front. Why? At least give him that, it would make people think twice about jumping towards you.
But shit doesn't stop there. His level one super has the most insanely tiny window to connect I've ever seen. To be honest I am still not sure when it connects. Tried it on players jumping from multiple distances and it's still not clear to me when it actually connects. When they attempt a cross up? Nope. A long completely unsafe jump? Nope. Right above me? Nope. I really have no idea.
Don't get me wrong, I can still win, I am at Gold 5 and moving forward slowly (mostly because I rarely sit down to play) but just like with R. Mika in V I only bother because I enjoy how he plays but he is really not viable if you aim for the top tiers in the game. Maybe with modern controls but I don't really want to use those.
As an occasionally Jamie player, I 1000% agree on your take on Jamie! I hate that you have to start over every round!
I dislike jame and his TC but I 100% with ya. Give him 1 drink atleast.
I just played a set Vs Jamie as Lily it was respectful AF there was almost an unspoken agreement not to drive impact it was hella fun.
I dont care about tier lists but it's a natural way just to talk more Street Fighter, which is awesome.
in my opinion the worst character right now is Rashid, he's literally unplayable, and i can't wait for capcom to release the promised patch that makes him a viable pick
Jamie classic is the most underrated. If you master his DP and Tenshin then he's unbeatable. Drinks aren't difficult to get really. Drinks make him higher tier, obviously. And I've seen Jamie win a tournament against some strong names.
lol
According to data from late June, Jamie had the worst winrate of all characters among Master ranked players, playing against others Master and Diamond... he only has 4 favorable match-ups overall : Cammy, Ryu, Gief and Lily... he loses most of the time against the rest of the roster.
I strongly agree with this tier list.
I don't agree that he says not everyone is viable and tournament winnable
@@cosmic5665 The way the game is now, it’s true.
Would love to see a Dee Jay, Marisa, JP, or even Blanka make top 8 and then take a title. EVO's just around the corner and I hope it happens there!
I love Manon but I have to agree with her spot. Manon is my main but I’ve been playing Marisa lately and I can just tell it’s easier to win with Marisa.
i couldnt get over the fact that justins glasses were hella crooked for the whole video
It hurts to see Manon so low since she was the character I couldn't wait to main when the game launched, but I have to agree with her placement.
Manon is still my main, but I'm learning Chun-Li. It'll be an uphill battle, but loving the tools Chun has
I'm very sad about Zangief, I was having a great time until I reached Gold, then back to silver.
Jab Cross-up kick is the bane of my existence, cannot super, cannot jab (like necalli), cannot down fierce, all I can do is jump back short kick, and that gets countered by long kick real hard, or the damage for the tiny kick won't stop people.
At least let the lariat hit behind damn it!
As a smash fan, im used to tier lists being 4 hour long videos, its kinda nice to consume one in less than 20.
28/08/2023 temporary result of capcom cup participant , there is kimberli , ryu & zangif got a spot in capcom cup.
the tier list still has an effect but if the top players are playing then the results can change.this is not mocking the tier list maker but you can enter the tournament with all characters if you try optimally.
You (the player) determine whether the character is strong or not
in diamond, guile is one of the characters i fear the least. his game plan is universal, and you never find guiles that truely randomize perfect/regular sonic booms in chains, this could become more potent in a lan situation i will admit. I think him and jp are both on the outside looking in of top 5, and thats a good thing. a zoner being the most optimal strategy in a fighting game is terrible; however, you also dont want zoners being terrible where people still have to play a little bit different. This balance was nailed by capcom with jp and guile. they could win, but it takes the right player and the right bracket for that to happen. They both still have some straight garbage matchups that could put them in losers or knock them out without a pocket counter.
almost every time i lose to guile, i feel like its purely because they were the better player, and had nothing to do with guile himself.
Love your tier list. I have been playing Luke in classic, but I will try modern and see just how fast I rank up. Im already close to Diamond.
I play Manon myself, and I have to admit, yeah. I think her biggest weakness is her neutral as trying to get in can be almost impossible at times, personally I would like to see her Drive Rush be made faster so it's easier for her to get in that way, but aside from that I mean, nothing else sticks out aside from maybe her big command grab being near exclusively a punish tool (which shouldn't change because imagine being able to combo into 5 medal command grab Jesus)
As a casual viewer randomly finding this video, it would have been nice to see video examples of everything talked about, but I get that would be lots of extra work.
You’ve just roasted that poor Ryu 🤣, now I’ll see him like a homeless on the ranked saying « some chan… points please? » 😢
Always with the lowdown as always JW,
Gonna try to win with Zangief at my locals still
(also for future tier lists, please fullscreen the actual list, that way you loose the whitespace & the banner ads )
I love that Dhalsim is finally getting some respect. All the early tier lists put him near the bottom mainly because hardly anyone had used him so no one really knew what he could do.
The FGC is full of self-fulfilling prophecies.
This is why you don’t trust tier lists. Match up charts for specific characters are better IMO. Tier lists should be built from MU charts.
Sim is bottom tier, he’s worst than Geif. I respect Justin but I don’t agreed with him.
@@helloman3676 I know a sim player that would body any character you’d pick lol.
@@KARS215 beating me means nothing…now if he would to win a tournament then we’ll see…
The artifacts on your 90’s webcam are everywhere
For Manon right if you're not going to make crouching mk, and standing hk cancellable then they need to be plus on hit and block regardless of spacing. Its like they said hey lets make a character that has a stock system that carries over between rounds that amps up her damage on only TWO moves then make all her other moves either non cancellable/negative you know because Level 5 Demon Wheel go brr...
Legitimately can't wait to see you play Rashid.
Although Cammy has tons of tools, I feel like she has to work harder to get the same damage as other characters. So execution heavy that you have more opportunity for mistakes.
very true hence I dunno why some ppl rank cammy S. I seen so many Cammy in tournaments now. Cammy is struggling so hard to get in top8. She is just not a character to use for that 1 big money prize.
Its funny cause I thought the same at the beginning but once you play others (I did with Chun) I realised cammy is ultra busted although she doesnt do alot of damage (per hit) she can combo in basically everything a spirral arrow and her crossup od dp is INSANE, I miss that the most from playing chun her dp is aaaaaaaass. Cammy is busted and I somewhere regret going to Chun because Cammy is simply better but not by much by any means but well in the end I play whats more fun. Disclaimer this is my personal experience from playing both
Well yea she has unlimited amount of tools . Damn near combos from anything . Of course she ain’t going to do heavy damage . Even tho I’ve been 50% pretty easily by cammy combos
"execution heavy"
@@LycorisOW There is a Reddit post about a Gief jumping in on a Chun, the Chun does her DP and Gief slips right in between her kicks. Really stupid how bad they made Chun's DP.
Great content Justin!
Ryu kimberly and manon are usually the ones i struggle most with while juri is probably one of the easiest to fight for me 💀
Probably depends more on the player using those characters than the character themself.
Have fun playing master Juris
@@DarkOne7777 Nah, Juri is a neo shoto, shes good but comfortable to fight. Specialized characters like manon and kim require specific counterplay
@@ytcmbt2505this is what ppl will struggle against zangief, it’s easy if you know that matchup
As a Zangief player…. I completely agree with your assessment of him
I grew up with street fighter bit this is the first game that im gonna actually and try to learn. Ive always been afraid of playing competitive. I want to be a juri main because o love her design. (Insert real reason why people play her meme). I really want to try and improve with her.
Manon speedran from top 5 to bottom 3
justine wong with the future sight
He really said modern Ryu was free like government cheese 😅😅