BTW, 4ocean has just released a video update on the OPR vessel: instagram.com/tv/B0MDhYeF7tP/? In the video, they offer some clarification for the “90% of plastic pollution” claim. They say that, obviously, the OPR vessel alone can’t stop 90% of ocean plastic pollution from reaching the ocean. Instead, it was their intention to point out that 90% of ocean plastic pollution comes from river mouths, and they hope the vessel will have an impact on that. Personally, I think that’s some politician-level backpedalling. There’s really no ambiguity to the claim they make at 7:40. They say, “it will end 90% of the world’s ocean plastic pollution forever.” Same goes for the claim at 10:42. If there’s some ambiguity there that I missed, please point it out to me.* Now, let me say just one more time, this video represents my criticisms of 4ocean. I don’t think I’ve misrepresented their company, and I think my criticisms are pretty solid. Nevertheless, you have every right to disagree with them. For example, maybe you think it’s not misleading of them to use the phrase “operated out of” to refer to a country where they’ve held a volunteer event. If so, fine. Buy a bracelet, tell your friends and family about 4ocean, make your own video pointing out everything wrong in mine. Ultimately, people will decide for themselves whether 4ocean deserves their support. *The video has been taken down from 4ocean’s channel. Lest you think I took that clip out of context, here’s how the full exchange went. Reporter: What’s your vision? I mean, I know it’s like gangbusters, but . . . Alex Schulze: No, of course, this is the proof of concept. Andrew Cooper: Keep bringing this concept - prove the concept first, like Alex just said. Once it’s proven and we’ve got our systems and processes in place, scale that to the most highest [sic] impact places in the world, where all the plastic is pouring into the ocean. Reporter: And you think you can eradicate it, because 90% comes- Andrew: With the help of our customers, absolutely.
I have to agree with you sir; sounds like back-pedalling to get out of a false claim. I want to know where they are getting these statistics and numbers from; cause I am pretty sure the vast swathes of beach goers leave more trash in our oceans than the rivers and such distribute.
@@oldmanmalice Well, you're actually mistaken on the source of ocean plastic pollution. Most of it comes from 10 rivers. news.sky.com/story/just-10-rivers-carry-90-of-plastic-polluting-the-oceans-11167581
Danye Har Are they really selling this many bracelets or are they still spending investor money on this? I’m looking at just what the ship modifications alone must have cost, on top of all the manpower, the cost of the ship and everything else and it just seems like they have to have more coming in than just bracelet sales.
I really like your approach on this. Ocean Crusaders clean oceans in Australia and Sweden and it is back breaking work to remove 1 tonne let alone what they are claiming...and boats don't stay shiney and new either. We use 6mm aluminum plate boats and they get trashed pretty quickly. Please support your local charities that clean your local beaches and waterways. Don't send your money overseas.
@@ELY3358 well think about it this way... They pick up ONE POUND for every $20?!?! They pick up the weight of a standard soccer ball/football for $20! Yeah totally back breaking work.
@@ELY3358 I personally believe they don't remove what they say they do. I personally run Ocean Crusaders and removing 55 tonne of debris last year took a lot of effort from me and over 2000 volunteers. If these people cleaned what they say they do, Florida, Haiti and Bali would be spotless and trust me they aren't, and there boats would look very secondhand, and they don't. It just doesn't add up. I'd encourage the owners to come on an OC clean up. That would change them forever and maybe make them do more and talk less!!!!
I suggest everyone who is considering buying a bracelet to go outside, pick up 1 wet pound of rubbish, and then just think for a second. A) That's not $20 of work, and B) you've already done everything the bracelet promised
A note I'd add is that you can do this even if you don't live near the ocean. Most ocean plastic pollution comes from rivers, and you can generally bet that any litter blowing around in your inland town or city will eventually find its way into a river.
There are other people who are doing ocean cleanups. I read more news stories on Ocean Voyages Institute who are a nonprofit who just did a cleanup in the North Pacific.They removed just over 43 tons. I read the cost for their program was just under $300,000. So by doing the math I figure that works out to be $3.49 per pound. They said the cost included 2 vessels they hired, the crews, purchasing of drones and equipment to find more trash at sea, satellite trackers that were attached to large nets and trash over the past year and a variety of other costs. Im guessing hiring boats and doin all the above in the middle of the ocean is more expensive than running a volunteer beach cleanup... so $20 for 1 pound does not seem even close to cost.
Lol, I just discovered that the fellas at 4ocean may well be plagiarists, too. The opening of their video announcing the OPR campaign ( th-cam.com/video/Pzxh3kU2dJM/w-d-xo.html ) sounds *strikingly* similar to this TED talk from the CEO of The Plastic Bank: th-cam.com/video/mT4Qbp89nIQ/w-d-xo.html Could just be a coincidence, but then there's a comment below from Noah Katz accusing 4ocean of basically copying everything The Plastic Bank does. Note 1: 4ocean's video was originally published in October 2018, long after the TED talk. Note 2: Evidently The Plastic Bank also sells a $20 bracelet, and for each sale they clean up 20 pounds of plastic. Note 3: Don't take this as a plug for The Plastic Bank. They, too, are for-profit, and I haven't looked into them much. Could be great, could be charlatans. Note 4: Wow, re-watching that video from 4ocean, I found yet *another* iteration of the now-infamous 90% claim (th-cam.com/video/Pzxh3kU2dJM/w-d-xo.html?t=123 ): "By eradicating river mouths as a source of ocean pollution, we're preventing 90% of the world's plastic from entering the ocean." Damn. Claims don't get much bolder than that!
Could you do some research and share if you think "the ocean cleanup" is legit? Cause after what I've heard they sound pretty good.... but so did 4ocean
If you want to help keep the ocean clean you're better off spending that 20 dollars on a legitimate organization that can tell you where it's spending it's money. If you don't care too much about the ocean and just want to boast to your friends that you're helping, feel free to buy a bracelet.
As someone who manages a waste facility, I can say $20 per pound is absolutely terrible, especially considering that's pounds-when-wet. There is no way they are drying the trash before bringing it to the landfill and getting their tipping fee receipt based on tons, which is what they use to prove the trash pounds cleaned up. To give you perspective, our company uses tractor trailers with live bottom floors (very expensive and prone to wear and tear) to pickup trash and soft demolition debris for $55 per TON, while dry mind you, often hauling it 100+ miles. So, as non-charity, we only charge around 2 cents per pound to pickup. Now obviously picking up trash by land is different than seeking out trash by ocean, but all things considered, cleaning ocean trash AS A CHARITY should not cost 72,727% more (727x the cost), especially when you consider the fact that I guarantee they have a special deal worked out with the landfill to pay next to nothing in tipping fees. See, our company charges $55 per ton, but most landfills charge about $40 per ton tipping, allowing us to profit $15 per ton on dry trash. Since they are doing a cleanup project, they will get a special tipping rate, making that 72,727% figure go up to 266,666%. That means, as a charity, they are saying their ocean cleanup costs are between 72,727% and 266,666% greater than for-profit land waste companies. Grade A BULLSHIT!
These guys are most likely not even going out into the ocean to look for trash. They're just combing beaches near communities where they can hire locals for next to nothing in order to maximize profits. The bracelets are bought wholesale from China. The whole thing is a sham.
@@spacesofi4005 yeah i've planted about 9 trees so far. i tried commenting about it on mr beast's video (planting 20 mil trees) but it was lost in all the other comments.
Grab some bags Go for a walk to forest/beach/park/wherever to nature Collect 1 pound of trash Separate plastc, glass, paper to those bags you brought Take those bags to nearest recycling station or put them in your sorted waste containers if you have some You have done someting for your body✅ You have for sure helped nature✅ You have saved $20✅
I see it the same way 20 $ might be better invested and do more good somewhere else. But a seriousl number of people is actually spending that 20$ for a bracelet that helps removing plastic and can't spend this money for single use fast food boxes.
My wife was about ready to buy a bracelet when I thought it may be prudent to research the company a bit. I too was skeptical, and then came across your videos. I’m not saying it’s a scam, but as you say they have some explaining to do. Thanks for taking the time to make these vids, a valuable community service.
Hi there Danye, me and my friends are dry landers (word?) and we'd love to start the #real4ocean movement. Collect trash to a bag, put it on your wrist, take a picture, instagram the shit out of it = clean oceans. Love your vids on this topic. Thumbs up! Janek and Honza from Prague.
this!!! This kind of hastag was also viral in my country once but it didn't gain any traction so it lasted for like.. 2 months. :( btw I love your videos!!
My grandfather always taught me to watch out for the “do-gooders”. They are usually the biggest crooks. Thats is how I feel about this company. Share the financials or deal with the wreckage of do-gooders before you 4ocean.
You should look at this NGO... ocean voyages. they said they cleaned up over 40 tons in the middle of the ocean... i read the cost was like $300,000... so that means their cost was like $3-4 per pound...
Kind of the point about being ridiculous. As they love to say, they are not required to release the financial records and therefore don't. For all we know it could cost them 50 cents per pound and they actually keep the rest in a trust somewhere. They also stated that they have far exceeded the amount of trash against the bracelets. Which means that either they have taken lines of credit, trading on volunteer labour or it costs no where near 20 dollars a pound.
I'm not necessarily claiming they aren't getting rich with their company, but still, you can't argue like that. So first of all, they have to produce and sell the bracelets, and I'm pretty sure there are lots of other hidden costs for them. But even if one pound would cost them like 5$, if they would sell the bracelets for just that amount they would never be able to grow, or for example to make investments like a whole ship. And let's just assume for now it's really their goal to get the ocean completely clean, then they will need to expand and invest A LOT. Sure, maybe 20$ is a bit too much, but they can't just sell them for zero profit.
@@Princess-dn7mj I wouldn't be surprised if their marketing costs were close to that. I wouldn't be surprised if they spent even fifty percent on marketing and branding. Their promotional style is super, super, super expensive.
I'm sure it's been said already but listing a founder and CEO's 'total compensation' is very misleading: if you own a company, that company is an extension of your own wealth, especially if you hold an executive position on it. Jeff Bezos manages to be the richest person in the world on an $81,000 salary, for example. Of course, Amazon is publicly traded so Jeff can liquidate stock perhaps more easily for cash, but being an executive at a company like 4Ocean comes with carte blanche to expense your housing, travel, meals, clothing and anything else you feel like to the company with strong tax benefit. It's literally up to the executives of the company how that 99.3% of revenue is used, and they have total free rein to spend it however they wish. Putting your personal wealth into a company is tax management 101.
Also they can define what "reinvesting into the cause" means. It could also include things like first class flights to Bali or some 5 star hotel there.
Dude is always proving he has no idea what he’s talking about (usually by actually saying it), but wants to make outrageous claims. This is ridiculous...
Yeah but not everyone has a beach to clean. The closest beach to me is about 14 hours away. But "donating" by buying a bracelet from 4ocean is not the way to go. Just donate to different non-profits that actually use your money towards the clean up
@kai oh I do have roads and I have community clean up every Sunday. But that isn't cleaning up oceans. I physically can't clean the ocean. So I donate to non profits
@kai ...but I wasn't worrying about a stupid bracelet. Just stating that not everyone can just walk to a beach and clean up. Good for you if you can but that ain't everyone. Geez no need to get your panties in a twist
The 4Ocean promotional videos really remind me of the Kony2012 phenomenon. Not in their aims, but in their delivery. They both seem operate on peoples desire to improve the world and do good, whilst making wildly reductive claims about extremely complex situations. Even the CEO's kind of resemble eachother.
Wow, i had completely forgotten about Kony2012! You're absolutely right, they're so similar it's crazy, and it seems all that money they raked in was for naught, that guy was never actually captured
Thanks for the update. When I first saw these two guys and heard their claims, I said “WHAAAAT”? I had to back it up to hear it again. I’ve been a vocational instructor, both high school and adult, and I can spot a slacker and a con man from a mile away. Their body language while making their claims, and more importantly while skirting questions about the truthfulness of those claims is clear. My guess is that their T-shirt business wasn’t keeping them in tanning oil and surfboard wax so they came up with this scam. I agree with other commenters - education and responsibility to prevent this trash from ever reaching the ocean is key. Thanks again for putting them on the defensive.
I suspect the reason they’ll show their personal financial records and then not want to share their business financials because what you’d find is that their business is providing them with company vehicles, airfare, “business” trips, maybe even pay for a portion of their homes for a home office. Then all food and everything spent while on these “business” trips. If they want to throw a big party with fancy food, girls, tons of liquor, well the business pays for that too. Another owner wants a Lamborghini, well well put a 4ocean wrap on it and it’s an advertising expense(not saying they did this just that they could). It sure seems like they have spent fortune on marketing alone just by the looks of it. Just in that one pic alone they have a ton of people all wearing clothes, flags hats, etc. that right there probably took 100 bracelets sales and that’s a drop in the bucket compared to everything else they’ve done, like the paint on the ship.
Plus, I would like to add, there can always be a financial construction where 4Ocean buys a product or service from another company that happens to have owners we've seen portrayed as surfers who want to clean the ocean. Besides, 0,7% of revenue to the owners, so that leaves 98,6% to do the work...... Seems like somebody isn't paying taxes on their revenue! And this is how you spot fake financials, they forget that they need to pay taxes first and foremost.
Wow, i bought heaps of their products but anyway, i have all their products and it may remind me my help is honest and if they cannot release their honest report so Good riddance to them.
I was going to buy a bracelet until I saw the price and thought ‘that can’t be right’ and wondered all the questions you’ve been asking. Thank you for helping to keep these guys accountable
I mean.... That was my initial concern. So even if they were using *100%* of recycled beach and ocean junk, it is just making more junk to go back int he ocean! XD
I still haven't seen them on any beaches in Bali at all. I've lived here 9 years and see lots of clean ups from actual non profits and volunteer organisations but still haven't seen 4ocean??
I don't live in Bali, but I've never heard about them outside of their commercial. I imagine 4Ocean would have at least some recognition especially in the waking awareness of waste export in Indonesia.
@@LaurenMca they probably have done clean ups in the past but they don't carry it on. They are not active in Bali yet they say they're headquarters are based here? Sounds fishy
07% in compensation may be what they have transferred to date, but within a LLC all profit belongs to the owners. That's why they don't pay corporation tax. Their profit margin is huge, they just haven't taken it ... yet.
they bank a lot. government pays for operations. bracelet money all to their pockets. see for yourself.bocaraton.granicus.com/DocumentViewer.php?file=bocaraton_7b98cd76810f8359fc2407b97c7c03e2.pdf
.07% (.14% for both) would be under their wages or an expense for the company, not what they have transferred (or would be called a dividend/distribution). Also, an LLC doesn't technically exist at the federal level. In the eyes of the federal government, an LLC is either a pass-through entity or a corporation. If you choose to be treated as a corporation you pay corporate tax in the year that the profit is earned as well as capital gains tax when the entity makes a distribution. If you choose to be a pass-through entity everything flows through from the company's K-1 to the owner's tax return for them to pay at their individual tax rate. The IRS is not that easy to fool.
These privileged "surfing vacation in Indonesia" dudes remind me of the commercial where the rich guy said "How do you think I got so rich?" I mean, c'mon, who can afford to take a surfing trip to Indonesia unless you have lots of $$$ already or daddy paid for it?
@@davegreene523 This agreement is for a nine month trial period with the option to renew. They are also removing vegetation and reporting areas of concern per the agreement.
140,000.00 for 9 months work. Not related to the bracelet money at all. And was this renewed? The resolution states the work all over South Florida doing the same thing.
If they reply it'll just be more smoke and mirrors. One thing that good marketers know is that people have VERY short memories. As long as they can weather a small PR blip they will go back to business as normal. It takes sustained pressure for them to either be more transparent or stop doing business.
@@PetrolBurnGarage Sadly, you're right. I think most of their customers are naive young people who won't see these videos, or might even choose to ignore them if they did.
Danye Har the hot trend these days in marketing is to attach your brand to something “charitable” and use it as a ploy to sell product. It’s clearly worked for these bare chested doofs. It’s kinda disappointing because at first I was impressed with the company but if you actually stand back and absorb the stuff they are saying you can’t help but to be suspicious. Even the marketing vids just seem overly forced and disingenuous. But at the end of the day people “think” it’s a good cause and it makes them feel a little better about themselves by having a crappy plastic bracelet.
Not all claims are backed up by so call “environmental friendly” companies. Some of us are not good at being at being a detective. Your video is helping people to at least questions claims that company releases to the public. Sometimes good companies turn bad when profit starts piling up. $$$ changes people!!!
I very much doubt the two guys that founded this company ever had good intentions. Their entire business model is predicated on people's willingness to help the environment. They're exploiting that to the fullest extent. They work with people in developing nations so that their human resource expenses (salaries) are as low as possible in order to maximize profit.
Honestly I'm willing to overlook the embellishments regarding their claim, so long as they DO present their financials and push for more transparency. I mean I'm not going to nit pick. Doing something is better than nothing..
Through an LLC they could easily all get Teslas for themselves and use them as company cars. They can also purchase all their clothing as work outfits, etc. They could even buy houses on private islands and say they are offices so they can surf all day. I'm not saying that they're doing any of these things I'm just throwing it out there for people to think about. a really smart accounting could take a lot of what appear to be everyday expenditures and make them out to be business expenses.
I tried to even find out where they manufacture the bracelets. You know, where the trash goes to be made into beads etc. I only found an address in Bali - but no factory at all. Which is strange because on the boxes that these bracelets come in - it says they originate in Bali - so they would have to be made there. And then I found a statement from a former employee. She used to work at that mystery address in Bali. Her statement uncovered that her job was in fact to unpack boxes of newly made bracelets, from new materials, from China - and repack them into boxes to go all over the world for sale as having originated in Bali. (ouch…)
Just something about your way of staying unbiased and open for various possibilities while questioning and staying skeptical... I don't know. take the sub.
I really love how you say your opinion nicely, throwing in compliments, giving them the benefit of the doubt and not just hating on them! This is how you talk about a big topic like this. THANK YOU.
I was 3 days away for buying a bracelet for my birthday and I watched your first vid. So glad I saw it. I've realised that I can save more than a pound in a lifetime by just being better at recycling
go to the beach, pick up a pound of trash and put it into a trash can, then go to an arts and crafts market find and buy a nice bracelet made by a struggling artist, and have a great birthday.
Excellent video. Myself and my wife would love to support ocean cleanup. I almost purchased bracelets but was sceptical so I didn't. There are so many scams nowadays you just can't trust anyone and we want our money to go to a good cause not in someone's pocket. Keep us updated.
David Lange the best way to support ocean cleanup is to first produce less waste, to inform yourself and be aware of what waste represents. Also don’t forget to share your knowledge with people around you :)
Im glad you made these videos, while it might not be a scam per say, it's a feel good scheme to trick people into thinking they're doing better for the environment . Is it a bad thing? Not necessarily, but I'm glad this is sparking a conversation about 4ocean as well as a debate in company/consumer pollution in general
The fact that people could use one of, if not THE greatest problem humanity has ever faced actually questions these people's humanity. It's frightening to think of. I sincerely hope this is not a scam even though every point you raised is relevant...
Ur point doesnt even make sense to begin with. Every damn business is built upon a problem that humanity faces so how does that make their ethics or humanity even questionable? Also his video clearly stated it isnt a scam, but the marketing was misleading along with lack of transperancy. Dont get the amount of woke devil's advocates in the comments bashing 4ocean like "ill just pick up the trash myself n save 20 bucks" as if yall even bother getting yr lazy ass off the couch to save the environment for free. If majority of the ppl had been doing it, 4ocean wouldnt have found a gap in the market to fill in the first place.
@@gornemant4639 U still dont make any sense. If i am Uber, obviously ill leverage on the problem of inconvenience with regards to transportation to advertise my company's services as a solution to the problem. How the hell is that false advertisement or being dishonest? Ure literally confusing lack of transparency with honesty. Was 4ocean marketing all abt advertising their ship? Any dude with a brain knows that 4ocean's marketing is literally simple, u buy a bracelet, they clean. But now yall woke ass conspiracy theorist go deeper thinking that they are marketing their ship as the main workhorse behind their operations which yall think is misleading n think it is some party boat or asset they wanna own.
John Wig Saying they will clean up the ocean is false advertisement. As I saw in a comment, the only long term solution is to change our habits, and they are fully aware of that. But helping people change their habits doesn’t make profit so they chose cleaning. The problem with 4Ocean is that they also fool people into thinking our actions are reversible which is utterly false.
Incredible video. Cheers to you. As a teenager who almost bought one of these bracelets before stumbling upon your first video, I would like to thank you. Making claims such as a projected 90% total ocean trash recovery is wildly inaccurate and borderline criminal in my opinion. I will share this video with as many people as possible.
At 10:19 you can see in the description about “2018 Clean Ocean Collection” that they are claiming they are a nonprofit organization: “Each bracelet is packaged in a collector’s edition storage book that features information about the cause and NONPROFIT ORGANIZATION IT SUPPORTS”.
Haha, you're spot on there. Given the claims made and the value for money issue, Ocean should not object to some intense scrutiny. Comes with the territory.
I once heard that cleaning the ocean of plastic is like seeing that your sink is flooding and first grabbing some paper towels to wipe up the water on the floor. While this helps a little bit, shouldn’t your first move be to turn off the faucet? Getting rid of the ocean plastic is good to do, but it’s not going to do much if we continue to produce and use plastic at the rate that we do now.
I've participated in many beach cleans and one thing that really gets me is the tiny microfragments of plastic that you could hardly pick up using tweezers... If you tried to collect that using a net, you'll find it full of Algae and fish but not much plastic. Oh yeah, and a tractor's tire (usually found on many larger fishing boats to prevent Hull damage when docking) then you can add about 40kg in one moment. Over 6 months in Puerto morelos, I witnessed around 5 of these tires, some as light as 4kg but 2 or 3 big ones. To me, a beach cleaning organisation can do a lot more with $20 just by giving out some bags and gloves and I seriously hope they are sharing their beach clean data with the ocean conservancy organisations that do actual scientific monitoring of this stuff and are looking at real solutions for it, like organic coagulants that could make it filterable or a new Algae engineered to digest plastics. These are pretty much the only solution I see since in the UK, pretty much everyone is already shitting about 50,000 microplastics every day and while humans are everywhere and can do anything, I don't believe this is something we just brute force our way through. And plastic production isn't going to stop... It's just too damn useful and cheap. Biodegradable plastics are more likely to be the plastics of choice in the future but I don't see us just giving up on the whole material industry, like coal, oil and gas - all things we are being urged we should drop now but industries are comfortable like this and they don't understand the severity of climate catastrophe. Sea level rise, fine that's a problem that we'll deal with in our own time, it's not exactly a tidal wave just cruises in, but if we just build walls, you can expect they will one day overflow and then you've only got the entire ocean at that level to equilise so that's a limited solution, but I'm more worried about climate. If climate changes, habitats change, what's tolerable to people changes and what's tolerable to our food changes too. The dustbowl wasn't a good time for many Americans and the prospect of that but continent wide is far worse and more likely to be a problem for us. Just be ready for large-scale crop failures and no, you won't be able to fish for more food, you won't be able to hunt - because the bloody forests arent gone too and the sea water is thick with oily microplastics and algal blooms, creating huge dead zones where no fish can be harvested. By this time we'll all be in the shit, many developing countries will struggle to ever reach a stage similar to a first world status, simply because they never atain the stability and opportunity they need. Of course some people will survive, probably in Greenland, which might become more tolerable as temperatures rise, but at the same time the saharan desert will be expanding and Australia might just have to give up on being a coastal nation with its face to the seas and its back to the desert. Then again, sea steading does sound like fun if we can pull it off and if we can, then we're actually quite a bit closer to making Mars and moon colonies than we think. Well that's my ramble on the ol' climate kurfuffle. I don't like the idea of people being crushed under the heavy hand of greed so I guess I hate the whole political nightmare that is brexit and the trump presidency.
And should we even start with the subject that it does not matter if we get every piece of plastic out of oceans, if we continue to allow professional fishing? 😅 Good job, however. I do agree with you 100% and I am looking forward for 4ocean's reply. Hope you'll continue keeping the oceans in your discussions!
Man! I KNEW it!!! I have become skeptical by reading fine print. Then came the ‘new bracelets’ that save more -i.e. cheaper. How much were the workers they pictured actually paid for making the bracelets then? And now? Are we increasing the incoming cash flow because questions are becoming louder, so make hay while the sun shines? The Xmas push for hat sales and then the new information on the latest made me take action to find out more. I figured as much. I am really disappointed, but not surprised. Thank you for these TH-cams. Hope they are still enjoying their exotic surfing trips. Just another breed of sharks.
Thank you! Organizations like this need to be kept accountable. If no one thinks about the technicalities and fine print and just listen to their pretty words they’ll turn into the corporate monsters that created this mess in the first place!
Thanks, Danye for taking the time to dig into the murky ocean of 4ocean doubtful commitment to the ocean clean up, and for giving us some clarity about their monkey business. Cleaning the oceans is a public concern, and any organization engaged in such endeavor, particularly one that funds its operations with purchases from private citizens, should be open, transparent, and made itself accountable to the public at large. My doubts started with the “for profit” instead of “non-profit,” but I decided to overlook and “help” them by buying some of the framed masks, a more useful item than a bracelet. Still, something was nagging at me, and that took me to your video, conveniently posted after one of 4ocean ad videos. Watching your videos, and the logical narrative behind the points you make, convinced me I’d need more than nice pictures appealing to our sense of helplessness watching our planet destroyed by corporate greed, to help 4ocean or any other of the begging organizations allegedly involved in “saving the planet.” I was about to buy their “Earth Day” bracelet, one because it is pretty, and two, hoping I’d help “clean the ocean.” After watching your videos, which were the final straw on my already nagging doubts, I unsubscribed from 4ocean, and decided to look for better options to help stop our planet depredation. Thanks again for your thoughtful insights into yet another snake oil selling, “save the planet” profiteers, who will remain guilty until proven innocent by opening their finances to the public that sustains them.
Yes - I was totally going to bring up Fyre. Just watched it two nights ago on Netflix - and there are some pieces here that remind me of that. Super well done.
3 days ago they addressed the 90% claims and the boat in their most recent video. Also, I like their operation. Yes, maybe they could lower their prices, but I think that their popularity is helping to raise awareness and getting people that would normally not want to help the ocean (but want a bracelet, though it might be shallow, it helps the ocean..) do it. Plastic does not just go away. Something has to happen to it.
VERY WELL DONE video. All of the facts and conclusions you present shed a lot of light on this business model. Yes, they help clean up, but they are lying about WAY too much in their ads. I physically cringe every time their ads come up, and their ads runs constantly on my account because I watch mostly eco friendly videos. BLEH
Thank you for making these videos! I’m sure the $20 does clean up some trash but I’d rather go to my local beach and spend a day picking up trash with friends for free. I’m sure we can pick up a lot more than one pound! I could then go out and spend the $20 on buying more reusable grocery bags, metal straws, reusable containers and other things that will limit the plastic I produce. Thank you for informing me and many others that $20 can be spent in our own way to help the environment!
Reusable grocery/tote bags are available for purchase everywhere, both new and pre-owned. I have found a good selection of cloth and synthetic bags in resale shops and tossed out by my neighbors which they left in boxes. Personally, I prefer cloth bec it's so durable and can (and should) be laundered occasionally.
BTW, 4ocean has just released a video update on the OPR vessel: instagram.com/tv/B0MDhYeF7tP/?
In the video, they offer some clarification for the “90% of plastic pollution” claim. They say that, obviously, the OPR vessel alone can’t stop 90% of ocean plastic pollution from reaching the ocean. Instead, it was their intention to point out that 90% of ocean plastic pollution comes from river mouths, and they hope the vessel will have an impact on that.
Personally, I think that’s some politician-level backpedalling. There’s really no ambiguity to the claim they make at 7:40. They say, “it will end 90% of the world’s ocean plastic pollution forever.” Same goes for the claim at 10:42. If there’s some ambiguity there that I missed, please point it out to me.*
Now, let me say just one more time, this video represents my criticisms of 4ocean. I don’t think I’ve misrepresented their company, and I think my criticisms are pretty solid. Nevertheless, you have every right to disagree with them. For example, maybe you think it’s not misleading of them to use the phrase “operated out of” to refer to a country where they’ve held a volunteer event. If so, fine. Buy a bracelet, tell your friends and family about 4ocean, make your own video pointing out everything wrong in mine. Ultimately, people will decide for themselves whether 4ocean deserves their support.
*The video has been taken down from 4ocean’s channel. Lest you think I took that clip out of context, here’s how the full exchange went.
Reporter: What’s your vision? I mean, I know it’s like gangbusters, but . . .
Alex Schulze: No, of course, this is the proof of concept.
Andrew Cooper: Keep bringing this concept - prove the concept first, like Alex just said. Once it’s proven and we’ve got our systems and processes in place, scale that to the most highest [sic] impact places in the world, where all the plastic is pouring into the ocean.
Reporter: And you think you can eradicate it, because 90% comes-
Andrew: With the help of our customers, absolutely.
I have to agree with you sir; sounds like back-pedalling to get out of a false claim. I want to know where they are getting these statistics and numbers from; cause I am pretty sure the vast swathes of beach goers leave more trash in our oceans than the rivers and such distribute.
@@oldmanmalice Well, you're actually mistaken on the source of ocean plastic pollution. Most of it comes from 10 rivers. news.sky.com/story/just-10-rivers-carry-90-of-plastic-polluting-the-oceans-11167581
@@DanyeHar Thank you for the correction sir.
Yoy also can find that boat anytime. All you just have to do is download the app find ship
Danye Har Are they really selling this many bracelets or are they still spending investor money on this? I’m looking at just what the ship modifications alone must have cost, on top of all the manpower, the cost of the ship and everything else and it just seems like they have to have more coming in than just bracelet sales.
I really like your approach on this. Ocean Crusaders clean oceans in Australia and Sweden and it is back breaking work to remove 1 tonne let alone what they are claiming...and boats don't stay shiney and new either. We use 6mm aluminum plate boats and they get trashed pretty quickly. Please support your local charities that clean your local beaches and waterways. Don't send your money overseas.
Please pin this!
No,i work for 4ocean and i want to eat
So what makes yo I think is not back breaking work for them too?
@@ELY3358 well think about it this way... They pick up ONE POUND for every $20?!?! They pick up the weight of a standard soccer ball/football for $20! Yeah totally back breaking work.
@@ELY3358 I personally believe they don't remove what they say they do. I personally run Ocean Crusaders and removing 55 tonne of debris last year took a lot of effort from me and over 2000 volunteers. If these people cleaned what they say they do, Florida, Haiti and Bali would be spotless and trust me they aren't, and there boats would look very secondhand, and they don't. It just doesn't add up. I'd encourage the owners to come on an OC clean up. That would change them forever and maybe make them do more and talk less!!!!
I suggest everyone who is considering buying a bracelet to go outside, pick up 1 wet pound of rubbish, and then just think for a second. A) That's not $20 of work, and B) you've already done everything the bracelet promised
A note I'd add is that you can do this even if you don't live near the ocean. Most ocean plastic pollution comes from rivers, and you can generally bet that any litter blowing around in your inland town or city will eventually find its way into a river.
or buy a magnet or a large hook and fish out 30kg of garbage from a river or damn
You do realize that after you pick up the garbage you have to manage the garbage, right?
the only problem is most people are not going to do that even if they have all the time in the world
There are other people who are doing ocean cleanups. I read more news stories on Ocean Voyages Institute who are a nonprofit who just did a cleanup in the North Pacific.They removed just over 43 tons. I read the cost for their program was just under $300,000.
So by doing the math I figure that works out to be $3.49 per pound.
They said the cost included 2 vessels they hired, the crews, purchasing of drones and equipment to find more trash at sea, satellite trackers that were attached to large nets and trash over the past year and a variety of other costs.
Im guessing hiring boats and doin all the above in the middle of the ocean is more expensive than running a volunteer beach cleanup... so $20 for 1 pound does not seem even close to cost.
Lol, I just discovered that the fellas at 4ocean may well be plagiarists, too. The opening of their video announcing the OPR campaign ( th-cam.com/video/Pzxh3kU2dJM/w-d-xo.html ) sounds *strikingly* similar to this TED talk from the CEO of The Plastic Bank: th-cam.com/video/mT4Qbp89nIQ/w-d-xo.html
Could just be a coincidence, but then there's a comment below from Noah Katz accusing 4ocean of basically copying everything The Plastic Bank does.
Note 1: 4ocean's video was originally published in October 2018, long after the TED talk.
Note 2: Evidently The Plastic Bank also sells a $20 bracelet, and for each sale they clean up 20 pounds of plastic.
Note 3: Don't take this as a plug for The Plastic Bank. They, too, are for-profit, and I haven't looked into them much. Could be great, could be charlatans.
Note 4: Wow, re-watching that video from 4ocean, I found yet *another* iteration of the now-infamous 90% claim (th-cam.com/video/Pzxh3kU2dJM/w-d-xo.html?t=123 ): "By eradicating river mouths as a source of ocean pollution, we're preventing 90% of the world's plastic from entering the ocean."
Damn. Claims don't get much bolder than that!
Yep sounds similar.
Could you do some research and share if you think "the ocean cleanup" is legit? Cause after what I've heard they sound pretty good.... but so did 4ocean
If you want to help keep the ocean clean you're better off spending that 20 dollars on a legitimate organization that can tell you where it's spending it's money. If you don't care too much about the ocean and just want to boast to your friends that you're helping, feel free to buy a bracelet.
Maybe you should do a follow-up video reviewing the plastic bank 🤔😉
th-cam.com/video/l7HsrD1hwf8/w-d-xo.html
As someone who manages a waste facility, I can say $20 per pound is absolutely terrible, especially considering that's pounds-when-wet. There is no way they are drying the trash before bringing it to the landfill and getting their tipping fee receipt based on tons, which is what they use to prove the trash pounds cleaned up.
To give you perspective, our company uses tractor trailers with live bottom floors (very expensive and prone to wear and tear) to pickup trash and soft demolition debris for $55 per TON, while dry mind you, often hauling it 100+ miles. So, as non-charity, we only charge around 2 cents per pound to pickup.
Now obviously picking up trash by land is different than seeking out trash by ocean, but all things considered, cleaning ocean trash AS A CHARITY should not cost 72,727% more (727x the cost), especially when you consider the fact that I guarantee they have a special deal worked out with the landfill to pay next to nothing in tipping fees. See, our company charges $55 per ton, but most landfills charge about $40 per ton tipping, allowing us to profit $15 per ton on dry trash. Since they are doing a cleanup project, they will get a special tipping rate, making that 72,727% figure go up to 266,666%. That means, as a charity, they are saying their ocean cleanup costs are between 72,727% and 266,666% greater than for-profit land waste companies. Grade A BULLSHIT!
Love this comment! Always apreciative when someone with experience does the math on this stuff!
People need to see this comment
Is the trash sorted to be recycled? I see a lot of plastic stuff and even it a landfill it’ll take a while to decompose
These guys are most likely not even going out into the ocean to look for trash. They're just combing beaches near communities where they can hire locals for next to nothing in order to maximize profits. The bracelets are bought wholesale from China. The whole thing is a sham.
Wonderful comment
I love how it says at 11:10 "these two surfers are changing the world" excluding all of there volunteers and customers
Companies such as this one usually do not expect thorough consumer investigation such as this as long as they are not breaking any laws. Keep going. 😁
Was just about to comment the same thing
i just want to give a shout out to ECOSIA totally transparent organisation now, after someone made a video like this about them
hmm is it Our Changing Climate?
Ecosia is awesome, I use it
@@spacesofi4005 yeah i've planted about 9 trees so far. i tried commenting about it on mr beast's video (planting 20 mil trees) but it was lost in all the other comments.
Z A I got it a few months ago and I’ve planters around 1000 trees
Grab some bags
Go for a walk to forest/beach/park/wherever to nature
Collect 1 pound of trash
Separate plastc, glass, paper to those bags you brought
Take those bags to nearest recycling station or put them in your sorted waste containers if you have some
You have done someting for your body✅
You have for sure helped nature✅
You have saved $20✅
T R U E 😂👌
And you also made some money off the bottles and cans.
@@sheenaporgan1852 absolutely ! $20 for 4ocean bracelet that using recycled material is illogical.
Do it around my neighborhood sometimes. Slacktivism is cancer
Not to mention depending on what you clean up you could actually gain a few dollars for your trash threw recycling! $20 gained!!
Translation: we bought a cheap boat and had no idea how much it actually costs to run and maintain. Bad investment, but not fraudulent.
I see it the same way
20 $ might be better invested and do more good somewhere else.
But a seriousl number of people is actually spending that 20$ for a bracelet that helps removing plastic and can't spend this money for single use fast food boxes.
Thank you for making a follow up was eager to find out your reaction.
Whew you are beautiful
“Are you suggesting that I wasn’t alive when I was in Hong Kong?”
*vsauce music intensifies*
What if you could become a ghost? *Beat drops*
I am...
Or am I
My wife was about ready to buy a bracelet when I thought it may be prudent to research the company a bit. I too was skeptical, and then came across your videos. I’m not saying it’s a scam, but as you say they have some explaining to do. Thanks for taking the time to make these vids, a valuable community service.
Brian Will Good for you for doing your research before contributing. More people need to. 👌
Hi there Danye, me and my friends are dry landers (word?) and we'd love to start the #real4ocean movement. Collect trash to a bag, put it on your wrist, take a picture, instagram the shit out of it = clean oceans. Love your vids on this topic. Thumbs up! Janek and Honza from Prague.
I didn"t expect to see you here.
@@jankos-armwrestling same xd
this!!! This kind of hastag was also viral in my country once but it didn't gain any traction so it lasted for like.. 2 months. :( btw I love your videos!!
His name is Dan, Daniel Hauer
@@vananhkhoanguyen7130 It's obviously Danye Har duh
How can a single Danye Har save us 20$?
One video at a time.
haha good one
Buy HIS bracelet
by tricking you with clickbait and making money off of a good company's name while attempting to hurt them.
*1 P O U N D A T A T I M E*
My grandfather always taught me to watch out for the “do-gooders”. They are usually the biggest crooks. Thats is how I feel about this company. Share the financials or deal with the wreckage of do-gooders before you 4ocean.
You should look at this NGO... ocean voyages. they said they cleaned up over 40 tons in the middle of the ocean... i read the cost was like $300,000... so that means their cost was like $3-4 per pound...
4ocean might spend tons of money in marketing that makes the cost higher
But was the marketing four times as much? 4 dollar cleaning and 16 dollar marketing? This is ridiculous!
Kind of the point about being ridiculous. As they love to say, they are not required to release the financial records and therefore don't.
For all we know it could cost them 50 cents per pound and they actually keep the rest in a trust somewhere.
They also stated that they have far exceeded the amount of trash against the bracelets. Which means that either they have taken lines of credit, trading on volunteer labour or it costs no where near 20 dollars a pound.
I'm not necessarily claiming they aren't getting rich with their company, but still, you can't argue like that. So first of all, they have to produce and sell the bracelets, and I'm pretty sure there are lots of other hidden costs for them. But even if one pound would cost them like 5$, if they would sell the bracelets for just that amount they would never be able to grow, or for example to make investments like a whole ship. And let's just assume for now it's really their goal to get the ocean completely clean, then they will need to expand and invest A LOT.
Sure, maybe 20$ is a bit too much, but they can't just sell them for zero profit.
@@Princess-dn7mj I wouldn't be surprised if their marketing costs were close to that. I wouldn't be surprised if they spent even fifty percent on marketing and branding. Their promotional style is super, super, super expensive.
The ironic part is that these bracelets are just gonna make their way back to the ocean.
They should have made something more useful then a bracelet
Assumption.
I'm sure it's been said already but listing a founder and CEO's 'total compensation' is very misleading: if you own a company, that company is an extension of your own wealth, especially if you hold an executive position on it. Jeff Bezos manages to be the richest person in the world on an $81,000 salary, for example. Of course, Amazon is publicly traded so Jeff can liquidate stock perhaps more easily for cash, but being an executive at a company like 4Ocean comes with carte blanche to expense your housing, travel, meals, clothing and anything else you feel like to the company with strong tax benefit. It's literally up to the executives of the company how that 99.3% of revenue is used, and they have total free rein to spend it however they wish. Putting your personal wealth into a company is tax management 101.
Also they can define what "reinvesting into the cause" means. It could also include things like first class flights to Bali or some 5 star hotel there.
@@Dongonzales123 I'm saving this to read later.
Does that apply to non-profits? Can you own stock of a nonprofit?
Heber Boerr no and no, the stock wouldn’t have value because there’s no money behind it, that’s why they can only take donations not sell things
Dude is always proving he has no idea what he’s talking about (usually by actually saying it), but wants to make outrageous claims. This is ridiculous...
dude I just got a 4ocean ad that was an update about their vessels, it was most definitely because of these videos lol
haha me too.
For $20 you can buy a hat a fishnet a liter of water something to eat and with 1h of your time you can clean a small beach
Yeah but not everyone has a beach to clean. The closest beach to me is about 14 hours away. But "donating" by buying a bracelet from 4ocean is not the way to go. Just donate to different non-profits that actually use your money towards the clean up
I like this idea
@@nomiaomi2702 or you could clean a park so the plastic there will never end in water by wind or in stomach of some animal
@kai oh I do have roads and I have community clean up every Sunday. But that isn't cleaning up oceans. I physically can't clean the ocean. So I donate to non profits
@kai ...but I wasn't worrying about a stupid bracelet. Just stating that not everyone can just walk to a beach and clean up. Good for you if you can but that ain't everyone. Geez no need to get your panties in a twist
Self-satisfaction for 20 usd is actually pretty cheap and there's a huge demand for that luxury product in this dying world.
Exactly
Darj
If your dumb that is
The 4Ocean promotional videos really remind me of the Kony2012 phenomenon. Not in their aims, but in their delivery. They both seem operate on peoples desire to improve the world and do good, whilst making wildly reductive claims about extremely complex situations. Even the CEO's kind of resemble eachother.
Wow, i had completely forgotten about Kony2012! You're absolutely right, they're so similar it's crazy, and it seems all that money they raked in was for naught, that guy was never actually captured
Literally what I compared it too.
Thanks for the update.
When I first saw these two guys and heard their claims, I said “WHAAAAT”? I had to back it up to hear it again.
I’ve been a vocational instructor, both high school and adult, and I can spot a slacker and a con man from a mile away. Their body language while making their claims, and more importantly while skirting questions about the truthfulness of those claims is clear. My guess is that their T-shirt business wasn’t keeping them in tanning oil and surfboard wax so they came up with this scam.
I agree with other commenters - education and responsibility to prevent this trash from ever reaching the ocean is key.
Thanks again for putting them on the defensive.
I suspect the reason they’ll show their personal financial records and then not want to share their business financials because what you’d find is that their business is providing them with company vehicles, airfare, “business” trips, maybe even pay for a portion of their homes for a home office. Then all food and everything spent while on these “business” trips. If they want to throw a big party with fancy food, girls, tons of liquor, well the business pays for that too. Another owner wants a Lamborghini, well well put a 4ocean wrap on it and it’s an advertising expense(not saying they did this just that they could).
It sure seems like they have spent fortune on marketing alone just by the looks of it. Just in that one pic alone they have a ton of people all wearing clothes, flags hats, etc. that right there probably took 100 bracelets sales and that’s a drop in the bucket compared to everything else they’ve done, like the paint on the ship.
Plus, I would like to add, there can always be a financial construction where 4Ocean buys a product or service from another company that happens to have owners we've seen portrayed as surfers who want to clean the ocean.
Besides, 0,7% of revenue to the owners, so that leaves 98,6% to do the work...... Seems like somebody isn't paying taxes on their revenue!
And this is how you spot fake financials, they forget that they need to pay taxes first and foremost.
If there's NOTHING to hide, then people will be transparent.........
I was going to buy 24 bracelets for my whole extended family.. but u opened my eyes bro..
Thanks
And thankyou youtube recommendations 🤘🤘
Wow, i bought heaps of their products but anyway, i have all their products and it may remind me my help is honest and if they cannot release their honest report so Good riddance to them.
4ocean may think:"the worst thing we have done is taking 40$ from danye har"
LOL :))))
His name is Dan, Daniel Hauer
I was going to buy a bracelet until I saw the price and thought ‘that can’t be right’ and wondered all the questions you’ve been asking. Thank you for helping to keep these guys accountable
Can we talk more about this themes instead of youtuber’s dramas
Manuel Piat I slightly disagree. This is an important topic.
Arc Kocsog that’s what I meant
@@arckocsog253 they're saying videos with themes like this should be discussed more than TH-cam drama? Think you might've misinterpreted
Ashley D so f true 😅, I’m trying, but I mean that vids that discuss themes like this should be as popular
Manuel, you choose what you want to watch. Other people choose what they want.
I’m living in Port-au-Prince Haiti, never heard of 4ocean before your first video about them. And I’m not trynna be funny here.
Lol
I'm sure you actually frequent the dirty beach in Haiti for your daily walks? LOL
I believe you mean that you are operating out of Haiti in your mission to clean up 128% of the ocean's trash.
500,000+ bracelets are gonna end up back in the ocean someday
I mean.... That was my initial concern. So even if they were using *100%* of recycled beach and ocean junk, it is just making more junk to go back int he ocean! XD
that’d be better than the trash it took to make that :/
Definitely Not HD u hv a pretty good point XD
Hur Hur well it's more than yuuuu duuuun! I almost spewed coffee everywhere from laughing when you said that 😂
I still haven't seen them on any beaches in Bali at all. I've lived here 9 years and see lots of clean ups from actual non profits and volunteer organisations but still haven't seen 4ocean??
Ryan Rostron
Weird, I’ve seen many Indonesian people from Bali say that they have seen them, and also that they haven’t seem them.
I saw them operating around Canggu beach (batu bolong, berawa) but these days.... SOOOO RAREEE to see their team 🤔
I don't live in Bali, but I've never heard about them outside of their commercial. I imagine 4Ocean would have at least some recognition especially in the waking awareness of waste export in Indonesia.
I’ve seen them in Florida cleaning up and they are the only people I’ve seen cleaning ever!
@@LaurenMca they probably have done clean ups in the past but they don't carry it on. They are not active in Bali yet they say they're headquarters are based here? Sounds fishy
I mean before 4oceans i wasn't thinking about all the plastic in the ocean. They've done at least one good thing.
07% in compensation may be what they have transferred to date, but within a LLC all profit belongs to the owners. That's why they don't pay corporation tax. Their profit margin is huge, they just haven't taken it ... yet.
they bank a lot. government pays for operations. bracelet money all to their pockets. see for yourself.bocaraton.granicus.com/DocumentViewer.php?file=bocaraton_7b98cd76810f8359fc2407b97c7c03e2.pdf
.07% (.14% for both) would be under their wages or an expense for the company, not what they have transferred (or would be called a dividend/distribution).
Also, an LLC doesn't technically exist at the federal level. In the eyes of the federal government, an LLC is either a pass-through entity or a corporation. If you choose to be treated as a corporation you pay corporate tax in the year that the profit is earned as well as capital gains tax when the entity makes a distribution. If you choose to be a pass-through entity everything flows through from the company's K-1 to the owner's tax return for them to pay at their individual tax rate. The IRS is not that easy to fool.
These privileged "surfing vacation in Indonesia" dudes remind me of the commercial where the rich guy said "How do you think I got so rich?" I mean, c'mon, who can afford to take a surfing trip to Indonesia unless you have lots of $$$ already or daddy paid for it?
@@davegreene523 This agreement is for a nine month trial period with the option to renew. They are also removing vegetation and reporting areas of concern per the agreement.
140,000.00 for 9 months work. Not related to the bracelet money at all. And was this renewed? The resolution states the work all over South Florida doing the same thing.
If they're rich as can be it wouldn't bother me one bit, as long as they're doing something for the ocean. And inspiring people as well.
Such an informal and well-made video! I hope they reply.
If they reply it'll just be more smoke and mirrors. One thing that good marketers know is that people have VERY short memories. As long as they can weather a small PR blip they will go back to business as normal. It takes sustained pressure for them to either be more transparent or stop doing business.
@@PetrolBurnGarage Sadly, you're right. I think most of their customers are naive young people who won't see these videos, or might even choose to ignore them if they did.
Danye Har the hot trend these days in marketing is to attach your brand to something “charitable” and use it as a ploy to sell product. It’s clearly worked for these bare chested doofs. It’s kinda disappointing because at first I was impressed with the company but if you actually stand back and absorb the stuff they are saying you can’t help but to be suspicious. Even the marketing vids just seem overly forced and disingenuous. But at the end of the day people “think” it’s a good cause and it makes them feel a little better about themselves by having a crappy plastic bracelet.
Beatrice Magnussen, don’t believe this guy
@@iimocha_cat9681 Why is that? He states facts and shows his sources.
2 days later, Elon Musk creates a cleaning Company, with automated ships
Check out The Ocean Cleanup
Not all claims are backed up by so call “environmental friendly” companies. Some of us are not good at being at being a detective. Your video is helping people to at least questions claims that company releases to the public.
Sometimes good companies turn bad when profit starts piling up. $$$ changes people!!!
I very much doubt the two guys that founded this company ever had good intentions. Their entire business model is predicated on people's willingness to help the environment. They're exploiting that to the fullest extent. They work with people in developing nations so that their human resource expenses (salaries) are as low as possible in order to maximize profit.
Honestly I'm willing to overlook the embellishments regarding their claim, so long as they DO present their financials and push for more transparency.
I mean I'm not going to nit pick.
Doing something is better than nothing..
Exactly
Yea sorry i just dont trust 4ocean, ill spend my $20 to my local waste management
Nadya S ✌️
Its everyone's fault tho for wasting a lot of garbage
@John Hickerson why only asia & africa???
@John Hickerson lol face the reality you ignorant American.
@John Hickerson What about waste export tho?
The moment I hear Boca Raton, Florida my Bullshit detector automatically turns on.
please make more videos about this type of thing, you’re very well spoken !
Thanks!
😅Ego boost to a poor schmuck who has no life.
@@DanyeHar So, any news about 4Ocean three years later?
They’re not even cleaning the ocean! They’re cleaning the beaches!! 😂
Through an LLC they could easily all get Teslas for themselves and use them as company cars. They can also purchase all their clothing as work outfits, etc. They could even buy houses on private islands and say they are offices so they can surf all day. I'm not saying that they're doing any of these things I'm just throwing it out there for people to think about.
a really smart accounting could take a lot of what appear to be everyday expenditures and make them out to be business expenses.
I tried to even find out where they manufacture the bracelets. You know, where the trash goes to be made into beads etc. I only found an address in Bali - but no factory at all. Which is strange because on the boxes that these bracelets come in - it says they originate in Bali - so they would have to be made there. And then I found a statement from a former employee. She used to work at that mystery address in Bali. Her statement uncovered that her job was in fact to unpack boxes of newly made bracelets, from new materials, from China - and repack them into boxes to go all over the world for sale as having originated in Bali. (ouch…)
I'm so happy that 4ocean responded
dude i love how deep you go into these vids. should make a series out of diagnosing companies like this.
“1 pound at A time..”
*Press X to doubt*
X
X
X
X
X
I got a 4ocean ad before the video started.
Just something about your way of staying unbiased and open for various possibilities while questioning and staying skeptical...
I don't know. take the sub.
I really love how you say your opinion nicely, throwing in compliments, giving them the benefit of the doubt and not just hating on them! This is how you talk about a big topic like this. THANK YOU.
I actually laughed out loud the video clips of 4ocean's founders at the end hahahahaha what a scam
I'm so glad I found your channel. It is so enlightening. Extremely thought-provoking.
Shoutout to DX Hotra !!! :)
4ocean, We knew some of you are gonna watch this video. Do you want to say something ? We’re ready to listen
PS: you're so feckin funny, I loved this series and please, keep us updated as soon as you find out anything more about these two sketchy lads!!
What I always wonder about is where the bracelets will end up in the end? Right, back in the ocean!
I was 3 days away for buying a bracelet for my birthday and I watched your first vid. So glad I saw it. I've realised that I can save more than a pound in a lifetime by just being better at recycling
go to the beach, pick up a pound of trash and put it into a trash can, then go to an arts and crafts market find and buy a nice bracelet made by a struggling artist, and have a great birthday.
Or purchase less items with plastic.
Excellent video. Myself and my wife would love to support ocean cleanup. I almost purchased bracelets but was sceptical so I didn't. There are so many scams nowadays you just can't trust anyone and we want our money to go to a good cause not in someone's pocket. Keep us updated.
David Lange the best way to support ocean cleanup is to first produce less waste, to inform yourself and be aware of what waste represents. Also don’t forget to share your knowledge with people around you :)
Im glad you made these videos, while it might not be a scam per say, it's a feel good scheme to trick people into thinking they're doing better for the environment .
Is it a bad thing? Not necessarily, but I'm glad this is sparking a conversation about 4ocean as well as a debate in company/consumer pollution in general
The fact that people could use one of, if not THE greatest problem humanity has ever faced actually questions these people's humanity. It's frightening to think of. I sincerely hope this is not a scam even though every point you raised is relevant...
Ur point doesnt even make sense to begin with. Every damn business is built upon a problem that humanity faces so how does that make their ethics or humanity even questionable? Also his video clearly stated it isnt a scam, but the marketing was misleading along with lack of transperancy. Dont get the amount of woke devil's advocates in the comments bashing 4ocean like "ill just pick up the trash myself n save 20 bucks" as if yall even bother getting yr lazy ass off the couch to save the environment for free. If majority of the ppl had been doing it, 4ocean wouldnt have found a gap in the market to fill in the first place.
An honest business doesn’t use a problem to falsely advertise a product
@@gornemant4639 U still dont make any sense. If i am Uber, obviously ill leverage on the problem of inconvenience with regards to transportation to advertise my company's services as a solution to the problem. How the hell is that false advertisement or being dishonest? Ure literally confusing lack of transparency with honesty. Was 4ocean marketing all abt advertising their ship? Any dude with a brain knows that 4ocean's marketing is literally simple, u buy a bracelet, they clean. But now yall woke ass conspiracy theorist go deeper thinking that they are marketing their ship as the main workhorse behind their operations which yall think is misleading n think it is some party boat or asset they wanna own.
John Wig Saying they will clean up the ocean is false advertisement. As I saw in a comment, the only long term solution is to change our habits, and they are fully aware of that. But helping people change their habits doesn’t make profit so they chose cleaning. The problem with 4Ocean is that they also fool people into thinking our actions are reversible which is utterly false.
Thank you for making this video, best 20 dollars saved! This also inspired me to clean up a local beach with some friends
Incredible video. Cheers to you. As a teenager who almost bought one of these bracelets before stumbling upon your first video, I would like to thank you. Making claims such as a projected 90% total ocean trash recovery is wildly inaccurate and borderline criminal in my opinion. I will share this video with as many people as possible.
"Last week I bought this bottle of whiskey"
*it's half empty*
It’s like saying you’ve been to hong kong when it’s only for transit.
.
At 10:19 you can see in the description about “2018 Clean Ocean Collection” that they are claiming they are a nonprofit organization: “Each bracelet is packaged in a collector’s edition storage book that features information about the cause and NONPROFIT ORGANIZATION IT SUPPORTS”.
No, they're talking about the partnerships they do with non-profits. They give a portion of the revenue to a non-profit.
This some friggin good investigative journalism and im in love with it👍
I love both of your videos on the 4ocean issue. Both very informative and somehow hilarious.
Boy, you're their "nightmare" donor 😂🙌🏼 I bet they didn't see you coming!
Haha, you're spot on there. Given the claims made and the value for money issue, Ocean should not object to some intense scrutiny. Comes with the territory.
Truly appreciate your in-depth analysis on this! Please do more :)
I once heard that cleaning the ocean of plastic is like seeing that your sink is flooding and first grabbing some paper towels to wipe up the water on the floor. While this helps a little bit, shouldn’t your first move be to turn off the faucet? Getting rid of the ocean plastic is good to do, but it’s not going to do much if we continue to produce and use plastic at the rate that we do now.
thanks for pointing out the obvious marketing scam.
Are you being genuine or facetious?
You can see in the comments that many have been taken in, or almost taken in, and he's trying to get some answers.
Iv'e been visiting the USA for all my life and occasionaly going to live in other places.
lol
Danye Har lol
If they found me in my car and pulled me out that's $72,180 or 3,909 bracelets
I've participated in many beach cleans and one thing that really gets me is the tiny microfragments of plastic that you could hardly pick up using tweezers... If you tried to collect that using a net, you'll find it full of Algae and fish but not much plastic. Oh yeah, and a tractor's tire (usually found on many larger fishing boats to prevent Hull damage when docking) then you can add about 40kg in one moment. Over 6 months in Puerto morelos, I witnessed around 5 of these tires, some as light as 4kg but 2 or 3 big ones. To me, a beach cleaning organisation can do a lot more with $20 just by giving out some bags and gloves and I seriously hope they are sharing their beach clean data with the ocean conservancy organisations that do actual scientific monitoring of this stuff and are looking at real solutions for it, like organic coagulants that could make it filterable or a new Algae engineered to digest plastics.
These are pretty much the only solution I see since in the UK, pretty much everyone is already shitting about 50,000 microplastics every day and while humans are everywhere and can do anything, I don't believe this is something we just brute force our way through. And plastic production isn't going to stop... It's just too damn useful and cheap. Biodegradable plastics are more likely to be the plastics of choice in the future but I don't see us just giving up on the whole material industry, like coal, oil and gas - all things we are being urged we should drop now but industries are comfortable like this and they don't understand the severity of climate catastrophe. Sea level rise, fine that's a problem that we'll deal with in our own time, it's not exactly a tidal wave just cruises in, but if we just build walls, you can expect they will one day overflow and then you've only got the entire ocean at that level to equilise so that's a limited solution, but I'm more worried about climate. If climate changes, habitats change, what's tolerable to people changes and what's tolerable to our food changes too. The dustbowl wasn't a good time for many Americans and the prospect of that but continent wide is far worse and more likely to be a problem for us. Just be ready for large-scale crop failures and no, you won't be able to fish for more food, you won't be able to hunt - because the bloody forests arent gone too and the sea water is thick with oily microplastics and algal blooms, creating huge dead zones where no fish can be harvested.
By this time we'll all be in the shit, many developing countries will struggle to ever reach a stage similar to a first world status, simply because they never atain the stability and opportunity they need. Of course some people will survive, probably in Greenland, which might become more tolerable as temperatures rise, but at the same time the saharan desert will be expanding and Australia might just have to give up on being a coastal nation with its face to the seas and its back to the desert. Then again, sea steading does sound like fun if we can pull it off and if we can, then we're actually quite a bit closer to making Mars and moon colonies than we think.
Well that's my ramble on the ol' climate kurfuffle. I don't like the idea of people being crushed under the heavy hand of greed so I guess I hate the whole political nightmare that is brexit and the trump presidency.
And should we even start with the subject that it does not matter if we get every piece of plastic out of oceans, if we continue to allow professional fishing? 😅 Good job, however. I do agree with you 100% and I am looking forward for 4ocean's reply. Hope you'll continue keeping the oceans in your discussions!
Donated to 4 ocean for a year and was wondering all the same things you did. Thanks for getting the information and updates out of them!
These videos are so interesting! I love your humour and intelligent approach :)
At least someone is picking the plastic out of the ocean.
YES! Let's rid the world of plastic pollution by getting a NEW BRACELET delivered to us EVERY MONTH... oh hang on...
Man! I KNEW it!!!
I have become skeptical by reading fine print. Then came the ‘new bracelets’ that save more -i.e. cheaper. How much were the workers they pictured actually paid for making the bracelets then? And now?
Are we increasing the incoming cash flow because questions are becoming louder, so make hay while the sun shines?
The Xmas push for hat sales and then the new information on the latest made me take action to find out more.
I figured as much.
I am really disappointed, but not surprised.
Thank you for these TH-cams.
Hope they are still enjoying their exotic surfing trips. Just another breed of sharks.
Enjoyed your initial video on this, enjoyed this one too! Subbed to see what other interesting stuff you talk about.
LMFAO - that cute BLUE shirt sure makes you look like an official spokesperson!!!!!
liked your video. What colour is that T-shirt? 4ocean blue?
ok
Please make more videos of your analysis on sketchy non-profits. You are doing all of us a service.
Okay I did some simple maths and found out from how many bracelets the owners have sold they have made just under 1.1 million usd
Where did you find any info on the number of bracelets sold? Link?
Thank you! Organizations like this need to be kept accountable. If no one thinks about the technicalities and fine print and just listen to their pretty words they’ll turn into the corporate monsters that created this mess in the first place!
Awesome follow-up 🔥🔥🔥 keep ‘em coming! 💪🏼
I’m so glad I watched this! I saw the commercial and was like yeah I’ll buy that. Then I saw this and saved that $20.
Lmao I’ve seen their bracelets laying on the beach. So much for cleaning the ocean
Thanks, Danye for taking the time to dig into the murky ocean of 4ocean doubtful commitment to the ocean clean up, and for giving us some clarity about their monkey business. Cleaning the oceans is a public concern, and any organization engaged in such endeavor, particularly one that funds its operations with purchases from private citizens, should be open, transparent, and made itself accountable to the public at large. My doubts started with the “for profit” instead of “non-profit,” but I decided to overlook and “help” them by buying some of the framed masks, a more useful item than a bracelet. Still, something was nagging at me, and that took me to your video, conveniently posted after one of 4ocean ad videos. Watching your videos, and the logical narrative behind the points you make, convinced me I’d need more than nice pictures appealing to our sense of helplessness watching our planet destroyed by corporate greed, to help 4ocean or any other of the begging organizations allegedly involved in “saving the planet.” I was about to buy their “Earth Day” bracelet, one because it is pretty, and two, hoping I’d help “clean the ocean.” After watching your videos, which were the final straw on my already nagging doubts, I unsubscribed from 4ocean, and decided to look for better options to help stop our planet depredation. Thanks again for your thoughtful insights into yet another snake oil selling, “save the planet” profiteers, who will remain guilty until proven innocent by opening their finances to the public that sustains them.
I just finished watching the Fyre documentary, can’t wait for the 4ocean one to come out...
Yes - I was totally going to bring up Fyre. Just watched it two nights ago on Netflix - and there are some pieces here that remind me of that. Super well done.
3 days ago they addressed the 90% claims and the boat in their most recent video. Also, I like their operation. Yes, maybe they could lower their prices, but I think that their popularity is helping to raise awareness and getting people that would normally not want to help the ocean (but want a bracelet, though it might be shallow, it helps the ocean..) do it. Plastic does not just go away. Something has to happen to it.
That feeling when you comment before you watch the video
Bruh moment
okay hector
The first commercial I saw was too overwhelming to the point where I started to have doubts.
Now there need a I find a way to save the ocean in minecraft
VERY WELL DONE video. All of the facts and conclusions you present shed a lot of light on this business model. Yes, they help clean up, but they are lying about WAY too much in their ads. I physically cringe every time their ads come up, and their ads runs constantly on my account because I watch mostly eco friendly videos. BLEH
Thank you for making these videos! I’m sure the $20 does clean up some trash but I’d rather go to my local beach and spend a day picking up trash with friends for free. I’m sure we can pick up a lot more than one pound! I could then go out and spend the $20 on buying more reusable grocery bags, metal straws, reusable containers and other things that will limit the plastic I produce. Thank you for informing me and many others that $20 can be spent in our own way to help the environment!
Reusable grocery/tote bags are available for purchase everywhere, both new and pre-owned. I have found a good selection of cloth and synthetic bags in resale shops and tossed out by my neighbors which they left in boxes. Personally, I prefer cloth bec it's so durable and can (and should) be laundered occasionally.
I saw one of their smaller boats docking in Boca and asked "hey can I help you guys out?" they said - "go buy a bracelet" so much for 4myhelp