The Problem With Baiken.
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ก.ย. 2024
- #fightinggames #guiltygear #guiltygear
Guilty Gear Strive had a patch last week, and Baiken players have been reacting poorly. In this video, I go over Baiken's current problems in the game, and what I think could be done to fix them.
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How are you feeling about Baiken this patch?
(also pls subscribe)
I am a big newb i dont even know what characters do in the game yet lmao. But i enjoyed playing baiken and gio are fun as heck to play.
I don't care how dogshit she is, I will continue to play her
I don't care where she falls on the tierlist. I will continue to play her
“Thank god I can finally pressure this character when they have meter”
…and other lies I tell myself to justify autopiloting into safejumps over and over against the parry character
(nothing will change) (i refuse to learn any matchups) (i will complain about her offense on twitter, despite playing sol) (her boobs are distracting me and giving the other player an unfair advantage and that’s the only explanation for how ive ever lost to a baiken) (arcsys pls nerf her again it’ll be funny)
still very fun but yes I think Baiken needs some help next patch
Baiken so good at parry she parried buffs and ate the nerf
Close enough, welcome to the Zato family
Nerf zato cage Eddie
Pep gave me a seat at the table 🥹
@@trinitygsaint2383
There's no longer even a character existing that can be nerfed further
Me when patch notes @@Creepo_J
@@trinitygsaint2383imprison Eddie gang strikes baxk
When I saw the lack of Baiken changes, I Vanished Into Dark.
Vanish into DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRK
Future now and past
@@vagetaintherain5595 VANISH INTO *DAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRKK*
@@phylaxinator7040 When it all mixes up
@@bulb9970DROWNED IN PAIN I LOST MY MIND
THERES NO GOOD OR BAD IN THERE
Stay strong Baiken bros, Daisuke is trying to force us to play with both hands but we must resist
They saw you beat Tiger Pop and almost beat Leffen at Frosty so they were like "yeah Baiken can wait for October"
Lets ignore the fact that Johnny won the AWT tournament in Brazil
I hope the hiiragi RC nerf is because they're preparing to give her suzuran as her next special move 🥲
We can only hope
Who knows maybe they'll give her follow ups on parry
I'm hoping. It'd be awesome. Probably unlikely
they wont
please, i at least need them to change the animation to suzuran's bc it's so much cooler
I keep seeing people say the new move she needs is parry follow ups
and while I agree that would help, especially after taking parry rc from us
I think she could really benefit from suzuran
a forward moving command dash with a guard point and follow ups? it would fix her. it would fix her.
you aren't getting a new move. New moves are for the launch cast only
@@zachstarattack7320 idk man, people have been endlessly talking about baiken needing a new move
I know arcsys listens to the community and has probably considered the idea
is it unrealistic? maybe, but you're just being a butt trying to take our hope away
@@beatrix4519 "just being a butt"? Hahah. Like arcsys is going to give the DLC they made relatively recently a new move. It took so much crying just for the launch cast to get a new move and we still haven't gotten all of 'em. Baiken's never geting a new move
@@zachstarattack7320dlc they made recently? It's been 3 years
@@zachstarattack7320 Mental illness. I don't know what else to say.
Time to join the unga crew LK, embrace the words of the great Sanford Kelly, “Pick a top-tier.”
🐬
@@LordKnightfgc Hit em with those dolphins, NA Guilty Gear needs to know...
@@LordKnightfgc evil
@@LordKnightfgcLK please don’t join them😢
I think the issue was that people weren't really starting to bring to light Baiken's major weaknesses until pretty recently. For the vast majority of Season 3 lots of people were calling Baiken a mid tier character with good strengths and exploitable weaknesses. For me, the first time I ever heard anyone suggest that she was Low Tier was only a few weeks before the most recent patch dropped. So I really think this is a case of the devs not realizing there's a problem in the first place, since everybody was primarily complaining about WWA, as well as the characters that would get buffed in the most recent patch.
For being 3 years in they really should have an understanding of the game down. Capcom got their game nailed almost perfectly apart from preference gripes(what you think SF should have i.e. sprint in halo convo but for SF type of things) within the first year and their weird idea of letting meta settle for a year. Arcsys games have so much silly technical stuff you think they'd have learned after all these year. Even tekken team who is notorious for having weirdly bad balance decisions have grasped T8 a wildly different game from T7(specifically 7) really quickly(though they could do with some more adjustments but nothing like all leroy top 8 oppressive atm)
Hearing about Zato being so weak threw me for a loop too cause I heard it for so long.
Hope Y4 is better for the low and mid tier players.
I wish tatami blocked projectiles better. It's supposed to stuff projectles from frame 15 to frame 30, but the whole move is 48 frames so you still wait 18 frames to push back against zoning or 33 frames if done at it's earliest, and by then the opponent can just send out another projectile. I would like it if blocking the projectile with tatami cancels the recovery at the expense of no tatami late hit. The projectile nullifying already ends as soon as the 2nd hit of tatami is active so it wouldnt be that hard and the tatami already has a broken animation if you're hit during it.
It's really good in some match ups to be fair, like Testament and Zato
The last patch was so bad for Baiken that we were thrown into the timeline of LK maining May...
i switched to play testament after the patch and it feels like night and day to get conversions without having to use rc to get decent damage
In fairness Testament's conversion ability used to equally horrendous until they spent like three patches in a row improving it lol
The problem with Baiken is that she isn't sitting on my face rn
She do be sitting next to Zato on the tier list, though.
I second that
Based and Baiken pilled.
Anji is coming, you cannot run, you cannot hide, and most importantly, you can't defend yourself
Basicall what I gathered here is that all they need to fix baiken is bump up counter damage and make far slash vacuum people in instead of push them away
Bro that’d be busted easy top teir
@@ŹØŘĄĶ1327 what level are you?
@@Jack_Horner_is_a_hero 90 with Baiken, 88 with gio, 80 with millia, I think like 60 with zato but that was pre nerfs
Dropped him off
@@kyleflournoy7730 reason why I’m saying is shit like s>hs>41236S at the corner even more consistent which is just a free kabari and can be combo into from a 5k 2d tatami mixup
Welcome to zato's life since s3
She's been like this all of s3 as well.
It's just nobody wanted to hear it before and everyone else kept getting buffed to where it's blatantly apparent to people who don't even play her now
the thing is zato players deserve a low tier
Spot on. Baiken is falling behind. All arcsys wants from Baiken currently is her tether and mix. Everything else is just kinda blegh now.
I legitimately think most of the issues with Baiken could be fixed by just bringing back Suzuran with at least 2 of its follow ups. This sole move would both give her a solid neutral skip/tool to fight projectiles and better mid screen conversions.
What I would like to see:
* Improved Parry. Since it lost its damage and STILL has poor options outside of close range, normal parry tethers the Opponent. Since Parry resets neutral after the throw, being tethered puts fear into the Opponent.
New distance parry option. Instead of the crappy guard crush animation that resets neutral. You should be awarded for reacting to the Opponent within 6 frames at a distance. Make parry outside throw range allow Baiken to do the H Kabari followup (the dash attack) limitations of the move apply.
* New special move. When tethered to Opponent, you can detonate the bell by pressing the input (air ok) it will launch the Opponent like Tatami does.
If not that, then bring back her Suzuran (Guard dash) from Rev 2. Follow ups are:
P--canceles into Hiiragi (parry) this version has 11 active frames, Leo's has 17, relax.
K--cancels into Mawarikomi, a strike invulnerable step. Can be thrown out of this.
S--Cancels into Tetsuzansen the Kabari followup from Rev 2. Launches on hit.
HS--cancels into HS Kabari follow up slash
Long distance party should have higher punish potential like you said, considering if you guess wrong, it’s a lot easier for the opponent to punish you party.
High risk, high reward.
Especially considering how little pressure her close party has anyways. At most, all it does is make you lose Oki.
Hell no.
Tether on Parry is diabolical, giving a tether on a defensive option that does throw damage, and returns to neutral
Maybe one day she will show her full unfiltered potential😔, one day…
Don't worry she can always be nerfed in season 4
Imagine being me, opening up YT, sees the brand new LK video on top of my feed, immediately gets a notification of the very same brand new LK video. TH-cam was gunning to get me to watch you this evening, LK. I was planning on watching anyway. Just had to laugh about that and share. Have a good night, bud.
More fucking no skill slam curse slam backdash bang bang bang oh I run up bang bang and my char can do nothing but predict it from the Mayan period and pray they forgot baiken is in the game
Losing it ATM time to drink, I will continue to just be superior I guess
Is that THE mr faust???
@Malacai087 what's good man you liking this patch or nah
@@Mr.Faust3 Its a great patch, it still hurts to see DPRC go as a Ky player but I understand it had to be done, Plus the WWA nerfs greatly overshadow that .
Just got guilty gear cuz it was on sale and bought the season 1 pass to play Baiken only to see this video imma play her regardless but dang thats crazy
Baiken is my fav but her ability to convert hits into combos didn’t hurt as much on release since other characters suffered from this too. But watching them improve characters ability to combo with changing properties of normals, new moves or the addition of wild assault it doesn’t feel great to play her. I have been hoping for some of that love to come Baikens way for a long time. I have almost no hope of it coming but I will still play her and suffer.
I remember watching you playing may on your birthday and the light had returned to your smile
B(aiken)ottom 2 Sadge
Baiken feels good as as she always has but sometimes a dark presence possesses me and I am tempted to pick up Slayer
Also I totally get the Baiken should win tier. I loathe fighting Bridget because it feels like she plays really well just out of Baiken’s range.
I main(ed?) Nago and also learned all the heavies except for bedman, just started playing her recently and think she’s really fun. I’m about two weeks in and I personally wish she’d make her more consistent and less reliant on gambling. Either that or give her better reward on being right. I feel like most of her offense only gets reward of certain things, for example using her lows for mixup doesn’t seem very rewarding and her cancel options are pretty bad when she’s right up in their face. Alao I feel like most her mixups only work in specific situations. When good plays actually lab defensive options agents her setups I feel like everything is kinda fake. I really enjoy her defensive gameplay though, prob keep playing her for now. (P.S. play more Baiken on stream I need to steal your tec)
Patch notes: "Baiken's been subpar for a while now, so to balance her we've decided to shoot her in her other arm."
She got hit with the Yamcha treatment...
What did they do to my Baiken!? 😤
Zato players : first time?
I was halfway wanting to get back into it because of Dizzy coming out, but now I’m not so sure. I was put off a LONG time ago when Diaphone animated putting I-no and Baiken in the dumpster (I-no was my main at the time, and I was interested in Baiken who was newly added). I know LK has been doing well with her lately, but then suddenly there’s a big nerf just as I’m thinking about the game again. And I haven’t played since before Wild assault was a thing, and I’ve seen a lot of people say they don’t love it.
The nerf is not big at all. 95% of baiken players will not feel the effects of the nerf
They have nerfed wild assault too, now it's good
@@sladevalen2120 don't need to, she still needs to do 200% of the work top tiers do to get the same result, wanna take may as an example? her easiest wallbreak combo starting with c.s deals like 50 more damage and is crazy easy to do
Didnt play Millia on release bc she didnt feel strong. Thought id wait allllll the way up until now. Sad to see Baiken dying from Arcys Nerd hammer.
I heard the faintest xenoblade 3 menu music in the background am I going insane or is it really there
Holy shit it really is
Honestly playing Baiken I feel like I have to get Lucky every time in terms of guessing. People playing something like sol, Hc, New bedman only have to get Lucky once.
Baiken came down with Zato syndrome 😂
glad to see someone else misses wild assault hard knock down post wallbreak. i play potemkin btw i was the one getting snowballed, not doing the snowballing, and i still really miss it. it feels like wild assault doesn't have its main use anymore (since i don't play an orange wild assault character).
I really just started playing regularly - I'm only Floor 6 and still trying to drill in the discipline to not get caught mashing so often and chain in proper combos smoothly. Baiken's my main because she's been my absolute favorite GG character for ages now so I don't plan on dropping her at all, but she really does just catch a lot of strays in the patches, huh? Anyway, I wanted to thank you because watching your videos and gameplay have been a huge help in slowly improving my own play. Hopefully Baiken sees some love soon.
Something cool they could do is kinda like what they did with Bedman and have ground tatami vacuum on hit, or if they wanna be fancy have the outer hitbox of it vacuum like a sweet spot. Also being able to dash cancel the far away parry when they are guard crushed would be nice reward
A vacuum on tatami hit is a great idea actually.
This video ironically enough kinda sold me on Baiken, if she gets some help next patch to make her easier or like she gets another defensive parry type move I might give her a go. I really like the idea that she excels in defense and is MEANT to, like her character identity is that. I really like parries, and I think that stems from the great feeling you get from reading the opponent. So having someone who is meant to have an edge in those reads and get reward off of it sounds really cool.
It’s time: Arcsys!give her Baku!
Considering that parry is pretty much her one unique tool to give her a real identity in this game, I think they could've strengthened that identity a lot by just letting her keep the ability the rc parry on hit. She's supposed to be this defensive character that kills the opponent for being too aggressive, and making her the only character in the game that can get real combos off of a meterless reversal would've really hit that point home. She'd still need some work, but it'd at least give a reason to want to play her over other characters that play defensive mid-range neutral better than her, like Ky or Ram.
Rocking the Momohime mod color for Baiken, I see. Good man.
Where problem with Millia?
Currently learning Baiken right now and I’m finding her a bit hard but really fun!
Hopefully she gets better soon…
Am I dooming?!
Personality for me, i would love to see some changes to kabari where it pulls more, and the recov is improved so you can do some strike throw mixups on it, allowing her to stay in range more
Make it plus on block like the old games
As a Baiken main I must say
This charecter is insane. Free oki, free aproach, slightly worse disadvantage bc parry, insane air to air, insane 196 no meter combos that don’t even require wild assault or even counter hit. Corner game is phenomenal. This charecter is busted fam
enter a super major with her, my best result is 5th. good luck! :)
floor 6 be like:
"free approach" with what bro-
I mained Baiken in every GG and only played season 1 and 2. Was considering getting back to the game and then this video pops up on my feed😅
So I main baiken and I say she is not in a strong place but I still enjoy playing her. She still fun to play and get mixups
"She is powercrept"
Axl: "First time?"
Give Tatami air some more hitstun and tatami ground less blowback and higher launch
Heavy can have her step forward
And sword attacks can beat some projectiles
Parry can launch or increase damage
The follow up slash through can be its own move with slightly different properties such as projectile invol
And if held is just a quick dash that you can only be grabed out of
6p can be jumped and dash canceled and has more hitstun so it combos on normal hit
They'll nerf Baiken but refuse to touch leo chaos and nago. Someone needs to teach arcsystem what a BALANCE patch is
What’s the difference between the different wild assaults?
Red - fast and good for combos, you can combo off far pokes like 2s and far slash
White - invincible on frame 9. Used to advantage, now is -3 guard crush
Blue is same speed as white, but with frame advantage. It's not that great for combos, but let's you set up mix ups/get resources if you make the opponent block it
i picked up this game recently and im still learning a lot of stuff with baiken. still enjoying her a lot
Good news.
If she had more ways to apply tether on knockdown or as a combo ender, I feel like she would perform better most of the time. Right now I think I've only seen one meaty Skabari setup.
Thank you for answering the question to the title in the firsr 7 seconds bruh. I know it's probably smarter to keep baiting us just to drop the answer at the end on some "in conclusion" shit but i personally prefer a hypothesis into it's explanation
I agree that baiken needs another opton at first i just wanted a diagonal snatch kabari off the light button or turning her 6p into a further poke but as for special moves to add If its more conversion tools i think Baku should be re introduces maybe with less effectiv times or different properties to fit strive but she may turn into anji if thats the case, the other is bring her azami back and increasing her defensive/ come int the hiten mitsurugi range gameplay so when u have her on the back foot shes more of a cornered beast then just a blocker. i feel like it would liven up her gameplay. and i feel like a perfect parry azami should create a projuctile deflect which then gives her that skill cealing and options i think she, in my opinion, was missing with her gameplay... IE everyone felt like they hade 6 or 7 options with specials and they gave her 2 with big damage(that they later neffed) so yea bring back Baiken the defense goddess.
Wanting compensation for parry rc being removed is crazy
Parry rc was so insanely broken im glad its gone. You would bait parry and they were still able to rc a completely whiffed reversal.
you say that when sol got compensation and THEN SOME for DPRC being removed
To be fair Baiken first got nerfed parry DMG because of parry rc, and then remover parry rc without reverting the damage nerf
Ive never really realized these problems with baiken. Even as a main i had a lot more hope for the character but i might have to accept the bottom 3 status now
I love this patch i-no gets to reliably wall slump without them building burst immediately
Hard agree. I've been talking about these things over the years. However people always thought I was downplaying/just a scrub. Nothing really changes until ArcSys decides to make a solid change for her though. GGST has been in a very weird spot for me over the years. There is a lot of things I'd like changed but I'm a nobody so just gotta take what I get, I guess.
Havent played in a year snd just coming back to the game today since i heard they teleased slayer and aba under my hiatus. Baiken was one of my favs beside Leo and Gio. Mark my words, my wife does not need buffs to still be my favorite.
Can't wait for the "oh Johnny we're reaaaaaaaally in it now" now meme
So as an average baiken player, the nerf to parry feels depressing. I get that it’s to be more inline with dp but like it’s kind of silly to me as it just shift parry prc to parry super prc which really is just painful to execution for me even to try, while losing rrc feels like parry is not very rewarding to hit. It’s also annoying as baiken parry was praised as a great defensive option but now it feels like a big gamble and it loses to fireball set ups.
And just overall I feel with baiken, I can never allow my turn to end against anyone with ok zoning as getting in feels tricky.
Overall I feel it annoying but it’s a “that is just how the game is right now”. I want to win with baiken so that just how be
At this point they should give her massive buffs, shes supposed to be defensive but also has low health, even with guts is more fragile than other gorilas
If they just let her actually convert, buff counter framedata(make it be more defining, like Anji spin) and give her another solid defensive tool shes gonna be solid asf
I've been following you for a while and heard your opinions on Strive, and I know you think having good conversions is important. You've also talked about how dominant big bodies are. I guess I'm confused why you didn't land on someone like Nago when you consistently rate him very high. Do you like the mobility of someone like May instead?
May basically fights what annoys me about the game atm very well. Also, she doesn't have NA presence, so it's a competitive advantage + I can help people prepare for international events, where she's more of a factor.
She also has never been lower than high tier, and has a defensive play style that suits me. Pretty safe pick imo
Thanks for the reply! That makes a lot of sense
The core design problem for the devs is that I don't think they want her to be able to run her Kabari -> H safe jump 50/50's off of every time she touches you.
Giving her a new special move that's fast on startup and knocks down but gives her a mediocre knockdown makes the most sense.
A lot of Baiken issues were basically the same issues that bedman? pre-patch had without a unreactable overhead but a way better 6p. Conversion was such a problem for bedman and consistency (and even now sometimes 6h and the j.s) just doesn’t work the way it should which is why im insanely confused on why they addressed bedman but left baiken really untouched
Because Bedman couldn't even do a basic bnb without potentially dropping and dying because spin and S buttons were absolutely awful. Not to mention a way worse mix due to slow jump.
Let's put it this way, when Bedman and Baiken shared problems, Bed was bottom 3 while Baiken was mid. Bed got the buffs because Bed needed them.
Baiken having BWA has never made sense to me
What is she using it for? Red wild assault would actually give her big reward for getting in, make her flashy combos even flashier, and suits her being angry, while white would give her a way to get in, fit her weird not-really "defensive" identity with the invulnerability, and suit her character by giving her the "heavy" wild assault while not being heavy (also being the only female with WWA)
but Blue is just... there
Never took you for a Mario & Luigi fan, LordKnight!
0:19 that voice crack is crazy😂
LMFAO
Tatami should vacuum on hit, bring back suzuran, and bring back her rising diagonal kabari. All of those things would give her much better options.
Make far slash vacuum on hit and block. seems fun.
"this is cool but not really what they needed" me back and the first couple rounds of anji changes then they just hit me with the "f it we ball" and slowly but changed the whole character
I was waiting for this. I love you Lord Knight. Hope May will give you peace. l
They should give her back her guard point run and followups from Xrd.
They gave Testament easier 2S conversions but couldn't let baiken combo off 5S lol. She should have kept her RC from parry imo. It would make her a unique defensive character compared to the other people with a DP if they arent gonna give her more combo conversions.
Hopefully they give her her old follow ups or something when she gets her new move. But thats going to be a long time from now
wait baiken isnt going to get a new move??
Certainly this can only mean one thing: Baiken is getting majorly buffed in October so they didn't want to give her any minor changes this patch
Was on the fence about playing Baiken & maining her, but after this vid I’m not entirely sure. Character crisis is still going.
Man I worked so hard on my parry RRC combos and they just simply took them away 😢
I have no idea why characters like baiken and always get shit on by development. And there's like a funny irony to the fact that it's practically unintentional they're not even actively targeting her they just are keeping down my queen.
I was also a makoto player in sf so obviously I just like to lose
Yeah this patch is worse than I thought for Baiken, Zato Axl Testament all getting buffed is a big deal. Axl and Testament at least are reasonable meta threats and I would assume hard matchups?
Season 1 DLC should've also gotten new moves, honestly
ok maybe this is a scrub take but i think if they let h kab kara into follow up like chipp or anji it could help round her out in terms of combos. it would be faster probably than h kab 1 so it would off far slash. she got the nerf to the follow up counter hit so i don’t see why this would be unfair
Lordknight is so good at breaking game mechanics down in a simple way that I'll watch his videos on games I don't even play lol
Been waiting for this one 😆
Sorry about Baiken, but I'm hyped to see you cook with a strong character like May.
Meanwhile dizzy and venom on the horizon ready to end baiken totally if she doesn't get some massive buffs and changes. 😅
u swapped from low tier millia to mid tier i mean u could just play meta and tbh go back to millia she feels better than baiken imo
Is that xenoblade 3’s menu music i hear in the back
Baiken bros....
you know a patch was messed up when me, a Bedman main, read the notes and my first reaction was "Damn they did Baiken dirty with this one".
feels bad, she’s such a cool character in a game with a lot of corny trash.
this is what ive been waiting for
I think what genuinely sucks is that there is a lot of hatred for this character and people commonly write it off as deserved, conversions would often drop and people wouldnt really notice this unless they played her.
welcome to zato tier
im a big ol’ nerd for this game and i have seen zero anti baiken discourse. this feels like made up drama to me.
@@cameronrramos there's plenty of people that hate baiken's guts (even though she's not nearly as powerful or evil as her older iterations) from people that cant deal with her, not any real discourse though that i've seen.
@@Storseon release she was in EVERY math I played and quite strong + not figured out. She still very strong unless you lab so this mostly apply to top ranked player above celestials
@@cameronrramos It’s pretty common on twitter and online tournaments.
Now i want to see Lordkinght to pick another character (Bridget for example) only for this character to get gutted in season 4 so we would see this time of video 3rd time
Maybe she should stop pulling an Oro and just use her other arm already! .... Ohh.. oh no.