@@SycosenMerihem considering most of them have more valid points than just an elaborate form of "why marle on this list I like her", you're the one who should feel bad for trying to sound better than them.
Honestly, I didn't expect to be THAT defensive of her, but yeah. XD The only people I never really found much use for is Cait Sith in Final Fantasy VII, Peco in Breath of Fire III, and Shana from The Legend of Dragoon, but I'm sure everyone has their use. :p
I mean, if I had to pick a "worst" character, I'd probably pick her, but -- especially since dual and triple techs should be counted as part of the package -- I don't think CT can really be said to have a bad character. 'sides, the main (sometimes only) point I hear in Marle's favor is Haste, to the point that not bringing it up in the video is very fair to call out.
1. Marle has Haste. 2. Marle's single healing is more potent than anyone else's healing. 3. Male's double teach haling are among the best healing techs in the game. 4. Ice Sword II 5. Chrono and Marle's final double tech is the most powerful single hitting attack in the game
1) Haste is garbage. 2) Single Target Healing is OFTEN not what you need in Chrono Trigger. 3) Slurp Kiss is better. 4) Crono not using Luminaire does not merit Ice Sword II. 5) Absolutely wrong.
@@SycosenMerihem 3 out of 5 of these logics are subjective at best and utter bs as the way you're pushing it. Especially Slurp kiss being better is laughable.
@@SycosenMerihem Are you serious...? Haste was very useful against Lavos for me... I also beat this game with a combination of that and the Antimatter Bomb thing with Lucca. :p
"Marle doesnt have a multi-target healing spell". I mean, not a single one, but she has the best cure spell with Robo (Cure Wind). Also, she has haste (the best support spell) and she can help with some of the BEST offensive spells with Delta Attack, Final kick AND dont forget about Double Charm, which can steal valuable items. Lucca is a way worse team member, and she has freaking powerful Magic.
I know everyone will play Chrono Trigger differently - I always have a party of Chrono, Marle and Lucca whenever possible -, but to say Marle is BAD is a terrible point to make! Every single character in Chrono Trigger is well balanced and plays a defined role in battles, sometimes requiring you to switch between them for certain bosses (I simply cannot deal with certain bosses without Haste, and others without Lucca's protective spells). He is analyzing Marle as if she were an offensive character, but her role in battle is for support and to augment other character's attacks with Double and Triple Techs with her massive Magic Stat!
The issue with Marle is that her healing doesn't scale into the endgame, where Lucca's damage does still scale well. Once you heal for 999, no further healing really matters, which is why Robo is just better - if you get him to 80 magic, he just full heals the whole party for 2 MP without needing to spend action economy with another party member. Add on top of that that he has 4 damage types (physical, light, dark, fire) and in the DS remake he gets the apocalypse arm, which does 9999 damage on critical hits, regardless of resistances, so the only "bonus" Marle has is the female exclusive Regal Gown that grants auto protect and barrier, and the angels tiara which auto hastes and protects from status'. Marle tops out at about 4k damage for her spells, and about 900 for her auto attacks, while Lucca still gets up to about 7k damage for Flare, and up to 3k for Wondershot. Lucca is still able to compete with Magus and Crono because of that Angel's Tiara I mentioned giving her auto haste, but Marle just doesn't compete with Robo.
Haste is not to be downplayed. That's the #1 spell even more important than almost everything else mentioned. If you only have Marle in your party for healing, you're doing it wrong. And yes, she has solid double/triple tech spells as well (Antipode 1/2/3 is always powerful), and her magic power progression is good (in contrast to Frog).
Except all of the double/triple tech are kind of wastes of action economy in the mid to late game. You genuinely do more damage just having your individual party members do their big single techs in sequence rather than using double or triple techs. Again - damage also caps out at 9999, so for 3 actions (a triple tech) to do 9999 is to do 3333 per person, which most of your heavy hitters will easily be doing individually by the midgame. Heck, by end game you should break the 4500 damage single tech breakpoint for single techs. As for haste, it's really not as important of a spell, when you have top tier items that grant it automatically, like Angels Tiara.
It makes me sad you put Marle on this list. I don't think I've ever played through Chrono Trigger without having her in my party the whole time. I mean...she combines for some bomb triple techs! I know not having multi target heals handicaps her, but my bias is just too strong and I don't care haha. Love you David.
I really don't think there is a bad character in chrono trigger. But when I think back through all my playthroughs. Marle probably is the character I've used least.
Triple techs are crap. Robo, Crono and Ayla doing single techs will kill just about anything with no issue, quicker than it takes to waste multiple turns setting up triple techs.
At this point, I'm pretty sure that putting Marle on the list is something that he deeply regrets doing. If you skim through the rest of the comments below, you can see that he's been called out for that in nearly *all* of them! I figure he *must* not be near as familiar with the game as most of us are, otherwise he would have never made that huge gaffe. Marle has the highest magic stat, and she has many indispensable dual healing techs with other party members. There are no bad or useless party members in Chrono Trigger. All characters are very useful. However, if I *had* to pick one as the most useless, I'd go with Magus just because he has no dual techs.
Marle is great but as the dude above me said. There is no real bad character. I agree with the consesus on Magus being weak because of his lack of dual techs. However I think his physical stats make up for his lack luster tris and lack of duals. Marle doesn't suck however, she is a straitght beast. But I always represent Frog, Robo and Chrono because of their physical prowess. I am a huge fan of cure wave and triple attack. I don't know why he didn't pick Cross characters. There is not a single bad party member in Trigger, you can't argue with anybodies favorite character, because fuck, every character is saturated with utility. Even Magus with his element coverage and AOE domination. Side note: if you dont fight Zeal with Magus in your party every time you do the Omen, you are playing it wrong. Magus theme will never get old... I have done the omen over 70 timed now and still i need to hear thst music.
Marles has access to antipode bomb which is WRECKAGE good, and Ice Water with frog which is even more WRECKAGE marle is actually low key one of the best party members in the game
@@Blaisem oh ok, I remember being disappointed in the first one lol guess it was getting warmed up. I'd there a damage chart for spells and such I wonder?
@@MrVariant You can google Chrono Trigger mechanics and something will pop up. Just be sure to also google Chrono Trigger character stats to go with it, since the spell power is being multiplied by a character stat. A tech with 14x Robo's magic stat is maybe equal to 7x Lucca's magic stat, for example.
Woah there, I disagree with putting Marle from CT in this list. Yeah she isn't strong offensively and lack multi-target healing but she can cast haste, which is the best utility spell in the game. That alone makes her pretty useful. Plus CT is not a difficult game, she'll contribute just fine in combat with some nice double and triple techs.
When I was unlocking all the endings I tried a bunch of parties and decided Frog is worst than Marle (because of Haste), but they weren't on the top either (occupied with the likes of Chrono, Lucca, Robo and Ayla)
Even though i like marle she is just...not that great, haste is not that useful and cure 2 for her is just useless(because when you get it she can heal the same amount with cure for less tp), but the two worse aspects of her is her lack of speed and the fact that she doenst gain any type of MT healing without double or triple techs(That is what i am most sad about because she would be so much better with it), I love her but i recongnize she is the worst of the cast and outdated by frog and robo
By the time you've set up haste, the actually good party members will have likely already killed everything on-screen. CT not being a difficult game is exactly why a character like Marle, whose only unique contribution is one utility spell, is the worst out of the bunch. This isn't SMT where you have to buff up to survive, everything that's not dying to Luminaire is going down in a couple more hits after that.
@@CornBreadtm1 Well, the most general consensus are that anyone who is not Serge/Lynx, Kid, Fargo, Karsh and Glenn are not worth it. Don't underestimate Karsh if you pair him with Glenn and Serge. Karsh got the most damage if Glenn didn't have the Einlanzer or Serge with Mastermune.
Marle's magic stat is higher than Frog so Dual/Triple magic tech are better. Haste is good for long Boss fights or helping Ayala stealing Mega-Elixirs fast, and helps characters spam Tech8 hit-alls. Also, Marle's quest line gets the Prism items, can equip 1/3 magic def, and some meh negative bows.
@@shadez123 Bullshit (Not about Haste). Crono/Frog/Ayla, 3D Attack is no longer as godly as I once thought, but DROPDOWN + Luminaire will absolutely kick the shit out of everything.
@@SycosenMerihemOk, maybe not useless, but usually 2 "ultimate" single techs will terminate most encounters. And in boss fights (mid-late game) it's usually better to hit 3 strong single techs (or at least just as good) and you don't have to commit multiple characters turns to one attack, so you can use last minute healing or something situational more easily. Ultimatelly these double/triple techs ain't bad at all but usually there's no reason to use them instead of single techs by the end of the game.
Sir. SIR! I just beat chrono Trigger for the first time today, and saying Marle is bad is just wrong. While she doesn't have multihealing, she's one of two characters who can revive party members in a game where item revives are garbage. Also, she gets haste, and gets great combos like ice water and the antipode bomb line to offset her bad solo damage. On top of that, she's a magic tank that shrugs off all of Lavos non-physical attacks.
@@sharilshahed6106 Haste is borderline useless. Nadia has great coefficients on Healing Magic, but garbage for Offensive Magic. Nadia is so bad that the Venus Bow dealing a fixed 777 is actually decent damage for her.
@@SycosenMerihem Tubster in black omen, in the first or second screen, you charm speed tabs of them. It's so super easy to get star/star in haste stat for everyone that the haste spell is useless if you're willing to grind speed tabs.
@@xenxander That's pretty much the point I make constantly around here. There's also the fact that it was a JOKE to get Auto-Haste, and therefore a casted Haste was even more worthless. There's more merit to it now given the Master's Crown and Prism Spec combo, but enemies don't live long enough to get any real value from Haste.
"...party members who are just absolutely useless and no one in their right mind would use in their party!" Half of the comments on this video: I use Marle... Should we be offended? lol.
The comments are providing valid counter arguments for Marle being a wrong choice for this list, so i don't think the right word here is "offended", but "appalled" instead. We're all appalled that he missed the point of Marle's strengths in battle and only judged her based on roles she is not supposed to be taking. Chrono trigger has a Double and Triple Tech systems, which allows two or more characters to come together to perform different kinds of attacks, with the one involving Marle being among the strongest due to her massive Magic Stats, not to mention her exclusive Haste spell that doubles your characters' Speed Stat (allowing to attack twice in a single "turn"). Sure, if you analyze her by herself, and not utilizing the game's mechanics that allow her role to shine through, she seems like a pretty bad character to have in your party... but so are everyone else, with Chrono being unable to heal anyone without Double Techs, or Ayla and Robo being unable to use Magic attacks without combining with the rest of the cast. You can make every character in CT look bad if you remove from your analysis the elements of the game they were designed for.
tbh chu chu's potentially not 'the' worst party member either she's got the unique ability to heal gears without a gear accessory slot used or fuel drained she doesn't use fuel anyway is immune to gear status effects iirc and if you build up her base stats she's really strong in giant form it's more she's weird and creepy that she's not used not that she's the worst
I never used her. I agree with the video. I can agree with people's argument that every character on the game is viable but Marle is always the first person that I dropped off the party.
James Miller It’s an understandable choice, but all of Marle’s dual techs with the other characters and busted screen nukes, so you should use her in your next run of the game. Her dual techs plus haste make her an excellent choice for any battle, plus the “multi-heal” that she doesn’t have only matters against Lavos or Zeal.
@@falconstriker87 trust me seeing everyone go ape shitt in the comment section makes me want to check her out in the next run. Funny thing is I only clicked on this video in the first place because I saw her picture on the thumb nail and wanted to compare experiences.😆
Poor Marle. I don't like that such an upbeat, fun character is shat on merely because another party member one-ups her about halfway through the game. She still has Haste, and some of the best Triple Techs like Lifeline and Arc Impulse. If we're looking for party members who are crippled by joining too late to make an impact, may I present from one of my favorite games: captain Masaki Izuna of Devil Survivor: Overclocked. She joins a mere handful of battles before the end! Her physical-focused stats aren't nearly good enough to replace any of your top team with. Unlike Marle, she doesn't have much in the way of character to back it up either. While I consider the sequel inferior in most aspects, it does avoid this by introducing all your characters in the first 3 days.
Lol sounds like fft meliadoul, though at least the remake lets her use her equipment breaking abilities to damage animals. Orlandu was like set it and forget it, plus he had haste
Marle is probably my most indispensable party member, lol. Haste is the best spell in the game, she’s got great double and triple techs, and her magic stat / magic defense are top notch. All of the characters are useful although I get the least use out of Frog.
Haste is not even REMOTELY close to being the best Spell in the game. Her magic stat isn't of consequence. If you want to talk Haste, go and look at its Final Fantasy Incarnations and then come back and talk about what you think its value is.
Samael Merihem fair enough. I just find speed to be a more important stat in Chrono Trigger. Magic stats also make a big difference if you keep your characters’ levels down. I’ll make it a point to use the fast spells in my next Final Fantasy playthroughs.
@@joejoejohnson8310 Speed, is a critical stat. Of which you get far too many Speed Tabs and it is a joke to 16 Speed your entire party with one set of Black Omens. Haste suffers similarly to FF6, where you're having characters overlapping turns. Granted, it's less waiting for Dual Techs especially with characters that have odd (not literally) speed stats such as Lucca.
@@joejoejohnson8310 Of course it can, but the effectiveness of Haste is very limited, especially at that level (which is not hard to achieve), and you are not getting the full effect of Haste compared to other games.
Chu Chu was such a weird character. It seemed like rpg's back then had a rule that you HAD to cram in at least one cutesy/goofy animal character for the kiddos.
Me too. This game's fights are in 2D--you don't need more than 2 physical attackers running at someone at once, and those two will always be Senel and Chloe. Your other two spots can be any two of Norma, Grune, and Shirley.
That would be cool as would a list of good characters that tend to get over looked. I could come io with a few like Peco from Breath of Fire 3 (whom I never used to use thinking he sucked because you had to work him up from a lower level [if memory serves he was level 1 when you get him]).
Flonne of Disgaea, for sure. She requires a tiny bit of investment to get an offensive spell on her, then she can basically solo the game from there. She's one of two characters in the game that can compete at any level with the postgame "I'm better than anyone at everything" class. She returns in all of her glory for Disgaea Dimension 2, as well, requiring similar effort to get off the ground, but now she has a personal ability that boosts her stats by 10% every time she heals someone to full health until the end of the map. Disgaea 4's Desco is another contender. She's your first party member who can kill groups of enemies by herself in one go, is incredibly tanky, flies, and makes a great target for monster fusion, further increasing the range and area of what she can carpet bomb, and allowing you to come up with silly ability combinations. Makai Kingdom's Prinny. They take a bit of work to get, but once you unlock 'em, they are the only creatable characters in the game with both high stats and big inventories. They suck as any sort of Int-based character, but do very well as anything else. They're basically the only generic character that can keep up with the postgame unique characters, too.
Yuna from FFX. With Yojimbo she can one shot kill bosses, including Jecht's forms, with a little luck. That luck percentage seems a good bit higher in the remaster. Not to mention having multiple health bars and stored overdrives from her aeons. She gets incredibly strong.
I gotta say, I actually used Marle for my entire run of Chrono Trigger, she's definitely not on the same tier as any of the other characters on these lists. I feel like the "bad party member" epidemic was at its zenith in the PSone era though. I just feel like so many of those games had underwhelming party members
I think the issue most people have with that is that you need to grind quite a bit to afford Big Joe's Drives to make Chu Chu a proper force chu be reckoned with.
Well yeah she really need great investment on stat increasing items. But your hard works are paid off when against deus even at her most powerful form(all her sattelites still intact) she can heal other gears as cheap as using ap. And she can use normal item to heal her
Love your content David!!! On my days off I love snacking and listening to your videos lol youve inspired me to want to play lunar silver story, been on the lookout for a copy. Keep em coming!
Seeing Part 1 of this video, Cid didn't have enough commands and Golbez got the Darth Vader treatment, so Edge became playable instead of Golbez in the original Final Fantasy IV. The creator of Final Fantasy IV intended to make Golbez the final playable character instead of Edge.
@@jc.1191 Why? Darth Vader clones are overrated. If Filly Fantasy IV was made, Sunset Shimmer would be playable instead of Flash Sentry because she is the perfect stand-in for a playable Golbez replacing all of Edward Geraldine sprites with her own making up for Golbez not being playable in the vanilla game. Fluttershy, despite portraying as Rosa in Filly Fantasy IV would be changed to a ninja because it is part of the reason why Sunset Shimmer becomes playable later on in the game. And also, Sunset Shimmer is easier to understand because she was the main character in the Equestria Girls series being the protagonist in the majority of her appearances. In Equestria Girls, Sunset acts the same as Golbez in Final Fantasy IV, but in her own actions. If Filly Fantasy IV was made, I would request somebody making Sunset Shimmer a playable character using the Playable Golbez Edition as a base, but make her distinguished from Golbez as possible.
@@GardevoirBoy Probably because of ninja turtles and ninja gaiden. Idk, always thought they were cool. I liked Edges character enough as being heroic. And enjoyed his battle command, and attributes of various equipment. Golbez I loved as a villain, and prefer like the games treatment where he attempts to beat Zemus. I just didn't care for the limited interaction after his defeat, that's on Cecil tho.
WOAH THERE. I use Marle for her Double, Triple Techs, and her Haste ability is a lifesaver against bosses like Magus and the final boss. Without her, my party is mince meat.
Apparently if you use combined techs you're "doing it wrong." I mean, I grant it's not the most efficient way to do things, but keeping "pure efficiency" in mind is a rather lame way of playing the game.
Well, Chrono Trigger is my all time favorite game, and the number is probably in the triple digits in how many times I've competed it. In all my experience, my most favorable team was always Chrono, Marle and Ayla...so given that, sorry, Marle isn't very bad. Very shortsighted to make her sound as pitiful as you do...maybe you are just a tad uneducated or uninformed in how she is best used. And in my many years of playing the game, Haste was always one of my favorite, and most valuable spells...and guess what, only one character can use it. Guess who that is.
Marle is the original Ice Princess of rpgs. I replayed Chrono Trigger as my first game of 2020 and haste is literally game breaking against every boss.
@@martinde-serres8724 well, guess you're right, but it's not like i enjoy blue magic, itis just... the fact that we could've had BM in FF4 TAY would've made the game more intreresting, there would be more stuff to do. I don't know how to say what i think about it, i hope that was close enough.
@@martinde-serres8724 Actually, i never played TAY, but from what i have seen, there's not a lot of new stuff, probably because we explored the whole world in vanilla FF4.
@@martinde-serres8724 man how can one guy have such a wrong opinion? Blue Magic is close to broken in pretty much every game it is in and you play your cards right and just know the game some getting it isn't that hard. Sure I guess that is more useful info for return plays sometimes but yeah. FFV- intro to it does not disappoint. For starters it can equip shields. For starters you give him bare handed and you get monk HP to work with. Which buffs vampire, ????, and white wind. -Wind Magic's more advanced techs are learned before you can get their black magic counters if you know how to (so aero 2 and 3 can be learned before fire, ice, bolt 2 and 3). Air knife upgrades Aero to be flare level strong. Oh and less enemies resist wind and are more often weak to it. Yeah Aero 3 is 140 in power vs 185 for the black mage types but oh man you can easily get Aero 3 before the black mage counter parts. -AquaRake, non elemental in this game. Easy to find (not so much as get at 1st but yeah it is possible to get when you 1st have access to it if you know how to fight that mini boss). Oh and it power wise is as strong as a buffed level 2 magic (so fire 2 or so with fire rod). -Goblin Punch was great in it. A 0 cast single target spell that worked like a normal attack and used your weapon for the damage? Oh and if you are the same level as the target you do 5x damage? Oh and normal story wise your bosses if you don't grind like crazy will be around your level. -Level 5 doom, well the level spells are good in general and with dark shock you can easily hit them. Atmos is weak to sleep but he is also level 41. Dark shock his ass and you can level 5 doom one of the most deadly bosses in FF5. Oh and with bone mail you can full cure yourself. -White wind. Works with bone mail on. Confuse a fan enemy in the final dungeon of world 1. -Flash, toad song. Blind makes all physical attacks loss 75% of their accuracy. Toad song works on the mammoth boss. I could go on and go into how Quina and your hot teacher in FF8 are broken, FF7 gives a disk 1 nuke if you know how to deal with a snake, and Strago is bad ass but I'm getting rather a head of myself with just FF5. www.sullla.com/FF/bluemage.html This is good reading though (oh and I kid about your opinion, you are free to have it lol).
Marle doesnt belong on this list in the slightest. Has access to some of the best single target spells in the game and is one of the best double/triple tech users as well. A true team support character. Mostly.
You should have that word with Haste, Haste is pretty fucking whack in Chrono Trigger at 16 speed, especially when you compare it to its incarnations in FF.
@@sharilshahed6106 It's a great comparison, given that people want to say "great/powerful" Haste is. It's extraordinarily similar to FF6 in both its mediocrity and the consequence of party members stepping on each others toes / wasting raw benefit.
Wait, wait you are actually complaining the Grune from Tales of Legendia has no healing. I think you are looking for the wrong things in her. Each mage in tales of Legendia has something going for them. Grune is more of a damage than anything else, although it takes a while for her to get her other spells. Its unrealistic to expect every mage to have healing. That's like complaining that a black mage character has no healing.
He didn't even mention, the real problem with her:that she has a tendency to heal the enemies. If I remember correctly, she even gets a title out of it if it happens enough times . 😄
It's more that the other mages DO have healing and magic in legendia is "meh" at best compared to the physical characters so if your gonna use a mage at all there's basically no reason to pick Grune over the others who can heal as well as contribute damage wise.
@@TheFoxYoukai I'm going to be honest, I just depended on Norma for healing after she got her multi heal (Plus healing items). Thanks to the shortcut tab it got me through the whole game and I never had to worry about party members too much. On a weird side note Dark Senel and Dark Shirley gave me more trouble than the final boss of the game.
I am reminded of Cream the Rabbit from Sonic Chronicles. She is TOO good at HP and PP regeneration. As for Fire Emblem; there is a couple you could choose from the series. A very good example is Ced from Genealogy of the Holy War and Thracia 776. Especially when he has Forseti; which was downright broken back then. Also from Genealogy is Sigurd; the dude even gets a silver sword in the first chapter! Then there is Seth, due to Sacred Stones being one of the easier games in the series. Oh; and let's not potentially forget about the royal family members from Fire Emblem Fates; especially Ryoma. From the cousin series, Advance Wars, we have Max in the first two games. He is supposed to be weak with his indirect units, but he still had very powerful direct units in the first game and generally got a boost in movement range with his CO and Super CO power before the third entry in the Advance Wars branch of Nintendo Wars; Dual Strike. There is also Colin in Advance Wars 2; the boost he gets from money in regards to his CO power was too much in general.
@Dark StarSeed I have no doubt in my mind that Ana is really, really strong. But imo the one that takes the cake is Ness. Like holy shit is he busted. Not only he has the best stat spread in any game, his PSI is also extremely powerful. He can one shot enemies, support your entire party, revive your entire party ( since he has the best healing abilities in the game), and he literally doesn't die ( I had to make an effort to kill him). The only disadvantage I see on him is that he is very slow, and his best abilities come pretty late in the game ( But those are definetly worth it). Other than that, he is pretty busted.
COMPLETELY disagree with Marle. Shes the only character that can cast Haste, Cube Toss and the Antipodes do amazing damage, and the party healing spells are better when used as a dual tech with her.
@@erikotteson3945 same actually you can get steal\use before she rejoins that way but really he's no more useless than the rest of them he's just not set on a specific path already
I'm playing Lavos Awakening ( the hard mod for Chrono trigger ) , and Marle is the best party member I could ask for . The fact that she could cast haste makes her irreplaceable , especially in battles were enemies charge up for strong attacks so you could finish them quickly . Even in the normal game , Marle is really useful , again with haste , but she also gains powerful spells that combine well with Ayla , Chrono and Frog . Why is she useless , again ?
I went to watch this video series _entirely_ because part 2 showed up in my recommended and I was thinking "Why is Marle on the thumbnail image? She's not as good as some other party members but she can heal pretty well, can Double Tech multi-target heals at least, is available from pretty early on, AND eventually gets Haste, which I think is closer to an "ultimate" spell for her than Life2 is. Also, DS remake gives her a proper "ultimate weapon," I've heard. Do not underestimate the power of the Haste side!
Oh, and as a person that plays on the highest difficulty in trails in the sky the 3rd, Josette is really as terrible as he says she is lmao. She is outclassed in every Stat except range by Estelle, who is already one of the worst characters in the game because she lacks any kind of decent utility on higher difficulties. Though, she's not a bad character because of her stats, in fact, it's because she lacks any good utility that isn't earth wall bot. And you know who can earth wall bot? Literally everyone, and she doesn't have a particularly good affinity for it given her horrible lines...
I laughed upon seeing Chu-Chu on this list. The potentially most overpowered character in the game in gear battles. Grind enough drives for Chu-Chu and you get a character that hits for maximum damage and heals other gears using mp.
I know right? i don't think this guy actually played Xenogear properly. Chu chu CAN HEAL OTHER GEARS. That alone bumps her to at least high tier character.
I actually kinda like Chu Chu in battle when in gear form. You can give her Speed shoes + Speed rings (Speed Ring S, if you have it) and she becomes quite fast. And her healing abilities obviate the need for HP Frames, allowing you to outfit your remaining two party members with low-fuel capacity but high output engines without fear of running out of fuel. True, you have Chu Chu in place of someone who could do more damage, but it allows the other two members to be outfitted more aggressively. Good list in any event!
Ryan Hendrickson agreed. Add to that that the lack of character development was likely because of the rush they put on the game in the final disc, cutting who knows how much content.
also you said melvin is towards the end of the game but he comes much sooner than aira. not to mention you said melvin leaves the team later but actually maribel leaves for like 15 levels
@@GiordanDiodato Technically Will has the highest int in the game and if Legendia was remade into a more modern Tales game Will’s hammer would make him a hybrid fighter that is more useful than Norma or Grune(Shirley’s teriques would still be awesome though)
Great video. I see your point about Marle in battle later on, but as someone paranoid about having 1 HP (see Queen Zeal), having combo healing moves with her and others is fantastic.
Josette has one redeeming factor in Trails 3rd, and that's Bobcat II. Incidentally, in that attack, Don and Kyle are the ones actually doing the work. Welp.
I like how sometimes you blast someone for sucking when you get them late game . But bash Marle for what ,not being more powerful and being over shadowed by others endgame when she is the first healer .While she might not live up to end game standards in some aspect she is far from someone who should be on this list
Dude. You make some good points, but... Marle from CT? Did we, uhm... play the same game? Marle's more of a Red Mage instead of a pure White Mage- her real strength lies in her support spells, dual/triple techs, and above all, her versatility. If you want to see the real somewhat bottom-of-the-barrel for CT... you look over at everybody's favorite edgelord, Magus. Yes, he gets a bunch of cool Shadow magic that nobody else can learn. On the other hand? He doesn't play nice with others- without any Double Tech combos and only really viable as a party member with certain party lineups and the wasting of one person's accessory slot to equip a Rock to unlock the Triple Tech. You bring up Frog and Robo as possible replacements? Yeah, they get group heals, but Frog's magic strength sucks compared to Marle's, and Robo's speed is absolutely terrible. Hasted Marle is the best single-target healer in the game, and with access to Arise, well... she can get you back up if you go down, whereas Frog/Robo have to bust out Revives. She doesn't have a big, endgame Ice spell? Neither does Frog and his Water magic- Frog Splash requires him to be at low HP for best effectiveness, and it's just plain damage to boot.
This is a terrible analysis of Marle lmao. Marle is arguably the best character in the game. Her advantages over Frog are her magic stat and Haste spell. First of all, Haste is almost certainly the best spell in the game. It almost doubles the damage output of your other 2 party members. Haste is like having 5-6 characters on a team instead of 3. Doing the math, this spell alone makes Marle offensively, and defensively, a contender for best character in the game. On top of this huge advantage, Marle has an enormous magic stat, which means you can dual-tech Marle with other characters, such as Lucca, to achieve crushing damage numbers. I can tell you never even played Marle seriously when you tried to compare water 2 to ice 2. Did you even try ice 2 vs water 2 in game? You'd immediately see the difference in their magic damage-Marle's will be almost double due to her higher magic stat. If anything, it's Marle who makes Frog obsolete. Frog's physical damage is inferior to every other physical damage-dealing character; you never want to spend a turn on Frog's physical attacks if you're playing optimally. His Heal is also unviable due to his Magic stat being the 2nd lowest in the game (about equal to Robo). Robo's Heal Beam is barely sufficient for tough fights; Frog's heal, which is about 2/3s the value, is simply not adequate on its own. This leaves his only niche to be a water-damage character or to provide good dual-tech heals, except Marle exists so he's trash here too. Unlike every other character in the game, Frog offers literally nothing best in slot. His "advantage" is he's a jack of all trades, mediocre at everything, unless you max his stats with tabs. In a team environment, you always want to combine specialists to make a team that's jack of all trades, strong at everything. Any team with Frog can be made better by substituting him with someone else. This video should have been about Frog, and not the strongest character in the game, Marle.
Chu-Chu isn't bad for ONE place in Xenogears. She can heal Gears (and is the only one who can without HP frames), and her form takes no fuel. You can replenish her HP/MP off your item shop items like omegasols etc. Which tells you where she's most useful: Deus's Labyrinth + the final battle with Deus. Buy enough Drives to augment her Ether power (which boosts how much she can heal for) and her defense/HP. You'll have to grind frogs for a bit for this or use the money cheat, but once you do, she becomes the best healtank EVER, and is a valuable party member in your party going through the Labyrinth and fighting Deus
Yup, Chu Chu saved my ass during one of those final boss mech battles. I was a kid so I was probably doing something wrong, but she was the only one dealing damage to that thing on the ground. My two other gears were always doing 0 damage to that thing.
Marle isn't bad. In fact, none of the characters in Chrono Trigger are that bad, which is part of why the game is so good. She is a fantastic healer, and we all know how important this is in any RPG, and she has strong magic as well. I love your videos and agree with you usually, but this take feels more like it's for shock value than what you really believe.
Chuck seems to specifically only be useful for his ability to see enemy's patterns to prepare in the hardest fights, but you could also do that with a guide I suppose. I think he had one other unique thing.
The song you have playing in the intro of this video “searching for friends” I believe is the name? It’s from FF6 (my fav FF ever) and it’s the new world map theme in the dark world after you get the new airship. One of my top 5 favorite songs from a FF game ever and a true masterpiece. I love you just for your music choice alone!!!
The thing with Marle, is that she is Support type character, in a game where you can just skill everything with little effort, not to mention that even damage dealers like Robo and Frog can also heal the whole party. The only way make the best use of her, is to use combo techs.
7:33 fun fact, in CS3, you can get pictures of different female characters in the game if you send in landscape pictures to one of the characters. And Josette gets beat out by 3 different shopkeepers for it
But seriously, can we discuss Kevin in Seiken Densetsu 3? His biggest strength relies on the day/night cycle. Past that no matter what build you do with him, there's a better cleric, better mage, and better fighters.
@@Maikeru101 so can Hawkeye. And while Kevin's Deathand job is a hair stronger than Hawkeye's nightblade, Hawkeye makes up for it in multiple spells including one that lowers enemy defense, making that one point null.
I hate when I get a “team mate” that I can’t control, can’t upgrade, or can’t remove from the party. It’ll be fine if that character can old their own, but when you have to protect them or auto-fail.....yeah.
Marle is great. Haste is the best spell in the game by a mile until you can get Haste Helm; doubling speed is effectively the same as doubling most other stats at once. Ayla is terrific for a number of reasons and Marle compliments her very well; as someone who doesn't like to use items during battle, Iceberg Toss is the best attack in the game, it has very low mp cost for an attack with that much damage and some aoe. Chrono/Marle/Ayla is my favorite party.
Raquel from Wild Arms 4 really sticks out for me. She's something like five times stronger than everyone else. Bosses take two or three hits from her, just with a regular attack.
I don't agree with Marle being on this list at all, she is a great healer and Frog was usually off destroying things with Chrono with X-Slash. Also, I'm a bit sad that Yuffie, Cait Sith, and Hope haven't even been put on this list yet.
mentioned chuchu too her healing spell almost alone makes her not worthless plus if you work on her stats she can become a beast course it is easier to just have bully with strongest engine ether doubler square attacks and cheese most of the final dungeon anyway
@@leeman27534 I keep running into talking about games with massive opportunity costs in the Party Member slots. Who the hell is really worth a slot aside from Fei, Citan and Billy (or Aerods Exploiting for the Initiated). I don't remember where Esmerelda falls on the totem pole, but Bart was an enormous disappointment, same as Rico. I don't think there's any way Chu-Chu is ever the worst.
@@SycosenMerihem well esemerelda can also be great with an ether doubler (no abilities just her ether moves even in gears), bart's still useful because he can make foes not even hit (and in gear again ether doubler + skills), rico yeah nothing too great other than decent gear, and same for schizbhen or however it's spelled, though it to gets decent ether doubled abilities. it's just that chu chu has something that's legit unique and VERY powerful specific to her, i mean, normally gear hp restoration is like a third of your fuel tank, or half, it's ridiculous, and it can't be maintained in a single fight for everyone (dungoen crawling yes trade that fuel restore Z item around spend a few fights refilling with one ally, and you're good) tbh it's also if we're talking on foot or in gears, too. both chuchu and maria don't get deathblows or are good on foot at all, really, while rico is powerful and tanky, is slower than most people even WITH haste. lowered accuracy matters less on foot and bart's not got good ether moves, so kinda meh, billy's pretty good, even has heal all move (and while citan can use a turn to make any of his ethers multitarget, the only other 'heal all' move is chu chu's, also her listed stats are basically doubled for fights so her having like 20 atk and someone else having 40 is around the same), again elly/esemerelda are more the 'mages' of the group so their ether attacks are fairly boss and EP's so cheap to refill can do lots of dmg especially with ether doubler, citan's definitely a clutch player though little less in gear (dunno why but he's basically always almost THE best general character) and fei is of course the main character so he's also well rounded. chu chu's just frigging weird and seems 'the worst' if you've never actually tried to use her. she makes gear fights almost trivial because without her, it's literally just 'kill them before they can kill us (not that all fights aren't that) or we run out of resources (which for like 2\3rds of the game also isn't much of an issue)' and she just lets you face tank so much with so little trouble. if there was side or postgame content with a serious longevity challenge with gears, she'd 100% be in most people's party during that and not considered the worst character.
i mean in sky SC they randomly added josette in the final chapter and is even less pointless to there. in 3rd she at least has her support ability, but also needs to be used on at least occasion. if i were to stretch it she can at least cast earth wall, so she isn t technically completely useless. well, but so can everyone else.
Hi there david, great content and top 10 videos, btw. Have u ever tried Lufia: The Legend Returns for the GBC before? It is available on the 3DS e-shop. Anyhoo, which of the 12 major party members in that Lufia GB game do you consider the worst?
Marle is really good actually. Haste is by far the best buff, Arc Impulse is super low cost, available early and massive single target damage. If you really want to get serious about bad characters in CT, you should talk about Magus, since he's completely pointless.
Quite honestly, I'm going to have to disagree with you there. As your first ranged attacker, she can very easily hit enemies without fear of retaliation from most, and her slingshots are actually pretty good if you bother to put investment into her. Goro, on the other hand, is much worse: while he hits hard, that's the only advantage he has over any other party member; but he also attacks slowly (can only hit once without his charged attack, and his weapons' speed stat is awful at first), and he NEEDS the dran feather to move at anywhere even close to a brisk pace.
@@matthewkuscienko4616 hmm I may be basing my opinion on the after game thinking about it and maybe the last boss that is a what? 20 year old game at this point?
@@airimee I could see that, sure. I've actually never played that last bonus dungeon, but I personally wouldn't say any of the ranged fighters in the game are the worst character you get (I still think Goro is the overall worst, personally). I'm a lot more well versed about Dark Cloud 2 than the original, to tell you the truth.
First Seconds watching: Melvin, Bianca, and Marle are on the list Me: I'm here to say that you offended the entire Bianca community of Dragon Quest, How to solve Mervin's issue make him learn Luminary, Sage, and Druid to make him completely broken, also fun fact in Chrono Trigger the higher character's magic stat is, the more higher the magic attack does, this includes Healing, so you never need to use Heal 2 from Marle, also you've also offended the Marle fanbase, so don't be surprised if you have comments from the following "HOW DARE YOU OFFEND MY WAIFU" or "You sickend me". Same goes for best girl Bianca(Also side note: you do know why Kiefer isn't in your party when you get to Dharma Temple in Dragon Quest 7 right?)
Replaying Star Ocean The Last Hope right now reminded me of a possible character for part 3: this game's supposed protagonist Edge. Not only is he a failure as captain and leader but he gets obsolete when you get your fifth party member. Soon later the sixth party member Meracle, who is also a melee fighter, outclasses him by far. Unfortunately the game even forces you to use him in a one against one battle later.
I have to agree with you on that, I've played many JRPG's in my life and I never thought I would come across a terrible hero till I played as Edge, from the beginnin he was alright but after alternate Earth blew up he became utter shit personality wise, the way he was moping and not thinkin clearly was really pissin me off at times, but hey it didn't help that he give Milla technology that she had no business usin because she was I manipulative bitch and Edge was dumb enough to fall for it.
@@Grandtheftauto1998 Oh, it's worse than that. He was dumb enough to fall for it after getting warnings from literally every other party conscious member (plus an npc) NOT to give her anything she asked for. I posted this on the last video's comment,s but I'd have to say that Faize edges Edge out (HA! Puns!) for the worst party member. A mage's skill set with fighter stats (more of a dex fighter, really) ain't winning any prizes.
Yea they did try to warn and poor Faize, well we'll just have to see who from Star Ocean The Last Hope makes it on the list if any of them show up on part 3, I wouldn't be surprised of David chose Lymle instead.
Harley was SUPPOSED to be a blue mage, there's a Blue Magic command with a very robust list in the game files. It was pretty standard for blue magic, had some duds and had some awesome attacks in it. Sadly, for whatever reason it was never fully implemented and we never got that. I'm guessing Gil Toss was a throwaway ability to give her SOMETHING...
I agree with you on Marle. However, in CT plus mod stat buff magic targets the party. Party haste is awesome! Same with the Marle/Lucca/Magus triple tech, and you don’t need to take up an accessory slot to use it. Great list as usual!
People have already been mentioning Marle and how she isn't actually that bad, and I'm going to add to it. Marle has haste, which is an insanely powerful spell until you have 3 haste helms which doesn't happen until end game. Giving your stronger characters the chance to attack faster is a huge benefit. She also gets the Antipode spell with Lucca as a dual tech as a very early and goofy source of shadow damage other than Robos laser spin, which won't be hitting that hard until mid to late game once you've got him pumped full of magic tabs. She has one of the highest innate magic stats allowing her to do good damages on her own, especially when she gets Ice 2. While Frog shares an element with her his magic star isn't nearly as high without some help, he tends to use his physical techs more and his heal spell doesn't heal much more than a Lapis which you can get a good amount of with Ayla's charm ability (plus haste for quicker charms). I'd almost say Lucca is worse than Marle. Yes she has a strong magic stat as well and some strong attack magic but she is dirt slow. Her speed can be patched up mid game with the Taban gear but later game she'll be suffering from lower defenses unless she upgrades and while she can have speed tabs used on her to patch up her speed other characters like Robo make far better use of those. Her only decent utility spell is also replaced by an item meaning she's not even a decent utility character. Once you get into NG+ and can afford to give her some speed tabs she's a good member for some double and triple techs but I based my analysis off a regular new game run
Want to see more? www.twitch.tv/davidvincstreams
I like how the majority of the comments are to protest Marle being on the list LOL
They're bad and they should feel bad. It's easy to make her out to be objectively the worst party member.
@@SycosenMerihem considering most of them have more valid points than just an elaborate form of "why marle on this list I like her", you're the one who should feel bad for trying to sound better than them.
Honestly, I didn't expect to be THAT defensive of her, but yeah. XD The only people I never really found much use for is Cait Sith in Final Fantasy VII, Peco in Breath of Fire III, and Shana from The Legend of Dragoon, but I'm sure everyone has their use. :p
I mean, if I had to pick a "worst" character, I'd probably pick her, but -- especially since dual and triple techs should be counted as part of the package -- I don't think CT can really be said to have a bad character.
'sides, the main (sometimes only) point I hear in Marle's favor is Haste, to the point that not bringing it up in the video is very fair to call out.
@Frizzurd That is the BEST description for them I ever heard! Toriyama sure has a 'type' lmao
1. Marle has Haste.
2. Marle's single healing is more potent than anyone else's healing.
3. Male's double teach haling are among the best healing techs in the game.
4. Ice Sword II
5. Chrono and Marle's final double tech is the most powerful single hitting attack in the game
6. Antipode Bomb 3
1) Haste is garbage. 2) Single Target Healing is OFTEN not what you need in Chrono Trigger. 3) Slurp Kiss is better. 4) Crono not using Luminaire does not merit Ice Sword II. 5) Absolutely wrong.
ZerogunRivale Every character in Chrono Trigger are good both out of battle and in battle.
@@SycosenMerihem 3 out of 5 of these logics are subjective at best and utter bs as the way you're pushing it. Especially Slurp kiss being better is laughable.
@@SycosenMerihem Are you serious...? Haste was very useful against Lavos for me... I also beat this game with a combination of that and the Antimatter Bomb thing with Lucca. :p
"Marle doesnt have a multi-target healing spell". I mean, not a single one, but she has the best cure spell with Robo (Cure Wind). Also, she has haste (the best support spell) and she can help with some of the BEST offensive spells with Delta Attack, Final kick AND dont forget about Double Charm, which can steal valuable items. Lucca is a way worse team member, and she has freaking powerful Magic.
He already said not a "single" multi target healing spell, meaning needs another member gain one, the statement is kinda wrong but correct in context
I know everyone will play Chrono Trigger differently - I always have a party of Chrono, Marle and Lucca whenever possible -, but to say Marle is BAD is a terrible point to make! Every single character in Chrono Trigger is well balanced and plays a defined role in battles, sometimes requiring you to switch between them for certain bosses (I simply cannot deal with certain bosses without Haste, and others without Lucca's protective spells). He is analyzing Marle as if she were an offensive character, but her role in battle is for support and to augment other character's attacks with Double and Triple Techs with her massive Magic Stat!
The issue with Marle is that her healing doesn't scale into the endgame, where Lucca's damage does still scale well.
Once you heal for 999, no further healing really matters, which is why Robo is just better - if you get him to 80 magic, he just full heals the whole party for 2 MP without needing to spend action economy with another party member.
Add on top of that that he has 4 damage types (physical, light, dark, fire) and in the DS remake he gets the apocalypse arm, which does 9999 damage on critical hits, regardless of resistances, so the only "bonus" Marle has is the female exclusive Regal Gown that grants auto protect and barrier, and the angels tiara which auto hastes and protects from status'.
Marle tops out at about 4k damage for her spells, and about 900 for her auto attacks, while Lucca still gets up to about 7k damage for Flare, and up to 3k for Wondershot.
Lucca is still able to compete with Magus and Crono because of that Angel's Tiara I mentioned giving her auto haste, but Marle just doesn't compete with Robo.
Haste is not to be downplayed. That's the #1 spell even more important than almost everything else mentioned. If you only have Marle in your party for healing, you're doing it wrong. And yes, she has solid double/triple tech spells as well (Antipode 1/2/3 is always powerful), and her magic power progression is good (in contrast to Frog).
Except all of the double/triple tech are kind of wastes of action economy in the mid to late game. You genuinely do more damage just having your individual party members do their big single techs in sequence rather than using double or triple techs.
Again - damage also caps out at 9999, so for 3 actions (a triple tech) to do 9999 is to do 3333 per person, which most of your heavy hitters will easily be doing individually by the midgame. Heck, by end game you should break the 4500 damage single tech breakpoint for single techs.
As for haste, it's really not as important of a spell, when you have top tier items that grant it automatically, like Angels Tiara.
It makes me sad you put Marle on this list. I don't think I've ever played through Chrono Trigger without having her in my party the whole time. I mean...she combines for some bomb triple techs! I know not having multi target heals handicaps her, but my bias is just too strong and I don't care haha. Love you David.
I really don't think there is a bad character in chrono trigger. But when I think back through all my playthroughs. Marle probably is the character I've used least.
Crono-Ayla-Robo Master Race!
Triple techs are crap. Robo, Crono and Ayla doing single techs will kill just about anything with no issue, quicker than it takes to waste multiple turns setting up triple techs.
@@JoelBurger ya I always liked using crono magus and ayla. Luminaire dark matter and triple kick. Or dino tail if low on hp
Marle doesn't have single Tech Party Heals, but there are numerous Double Techs.
Marle is great, Antipode is the best attack in the game before Luminaire.
Multitechs are pretty bad tbh..
At this point, I'm pretty sure that putting Marle on the list is something that he deeply regrets doing. If you skim through the rest of the comments below, you can see that he's been called out for that in nearly *all* of them! I figure he *must* not be near as familiar with the game as most of us are, otherwise he would have never made that huge gaffe. Marle has the highest magic stat, and she has many indispensable dual healing techs with other party members. There are no bad or useless party members in Chrono Trigger. All characters are very useful. However, if I *had* to pick one as the most useless, I'd go with Magus just because he has no dual techs.
Most dual techs are better than singles until end game. Its usually triple techs that are bad, or at least outclassed
@Autistic Incel Pretty ironic reply considering your screen name. Moron.
Marle is great but as the dude above me said. There is no real bad character. I agree with the consesus on Magus being weak because of his lack of dual techs. However I think his physical stats make up for his lack luster tris and lack of duals. Marle doesn't suck however, she is a straitght beast. But I always represent Frog, Robo and Chrono because of their physical prowess. I am a huge fan of cure wave and triple attack. I don't know why he didn't pick Cross characters. There is not a single bad party member in Trigger, you can't argue with anybodies favorite character, because fuck, every character is saturated with utility. Even Magus with his element coverage and AOE domination.
Side note: if you dont fight Zeal with Magus in your party every time you do the Omen, you are playing it wrong. Magus theme will never get old... I have done the omen over 70 timed now and still i need to hear thst music.
Take a shot every time someone says that he doesn’t understand how to use Marle.
Right. Because "I" use her, he's wrong.
🙄
The petulance..
James Miller I genuinely don’t understand what you mean.
Ditto for his previous episode on Jeigan.
I'd be dead...
And now I'm dead. Lol
Marles has access to antipode bomb which is WRECKAGE good, and Ice Water with frog which is even more WRECKAGE
marle is actually low key one of the best party members in the game
Antipod was good? I remember doing more damage doing fire and ice separately.
Haste
@@MrVariant antipode 3 is the highest damage dual-tech in the game for the most part.
@@Blaisem oh ok, I remember being disappointed in the first one lol guess it was getting warmed up. I'd there a damage chart for spells and such I wonder?
@@MrVariant You can google Chrono Trigger mechanics and something will pop up. Just be sure to also google Chrono Trigger character stats to go with it, since the spell power is being multiplied by a character stat. A tech with 14x Robo's magic stat is maybe equal to 7x Lucca's magic stat, for example.
Woah there, I disagree with putting Marle from CT in this list. Yeah she isn't strong offensively and lack multi-target healing but she can cast haste, which is the best utility spell in the game. That alone makes her pretty useful. Plus CT is not a difficult game, she'll contribute just fine in combat with some nice double and triple techs.
You sir, are a man who knows good Chrono Trigger party members. I almost always have Marle in my party. Glad I'm not alone!
When I was unlocking all the endings I tried a bunch of parties and decided Frog is worst than Marle (because of Haste), but they weren't on the top either (occupied with the likes of Chrono, Lucca, Robo and Ayla)
Even though i like marle she is just...not that great, haste is not that useful and cure 2 for her is just useless(because when you get it she can heal the same amount with cure for less tp), but the two worse aspects of her is her lack of speed and the fact that she doenst gain any type of MT healing without double or triple techs(That is what i am most sad about because she would be so much better with it), I love her but i recongnize she is the worst of the cast and outdated by frog and robo
By the time you've set up haste, the actually good party members will have likely already killed everything on-screen. CT not being a difficult game is exactly why a character like Marle, whose only unique contribution is one utility spell, is the worst out of the bunch. This isn't SMT where you have to buff up to survive, everything that's not dying to Luminaire is going down in a couple more hits after that.
“CT is not a difficult game”? My casual ass disagrees
"Excuuuuuse me princess!"
That Zelda reference gets me every time.
That reference is "slightly" older than Zelda.
You could make an entire part 3 consisting of Chrono Cross characters...
that would literally be almost the entire cast.
Dasdatroof.
Might as well just say " Anyone who is not Glenn"
@@CornBreadtm1 Well, the most general consensus are that anyone who is not Serge/Lynx, Kid, Fargo, Karsh and Glenn are not worth it. Don't underestimate Karsh if you pair him with Glenn and Serge. Karsh got the most damage if Glenn didn't have the Einlanzer or Serge with Mastermune.
Lmfaooooooo I hate it when people over exaggerate how useless some characters are.
Marle's magic stat is higher than Frog so Dual/Triple magic tech are better. Haste is good for long Boss fights or helping Ayala stealing Mega-Elixirs fast, and helps characters spam Tech8 hit-alls. Also, Marle's quest line gets the Prism items, can equip 1/3 magic def, and some meh negative bows.
Isn't she key to the magus triple tech too?
@@Rudajie yup. the Dark Eternal triple tech requires Magus, Marle & Lucca
Heh i don't feel like haste makes much of a difference. And double/triple techs are kinda useless in the mid to late game imo
@@shadez123 Bullshit (Not about Haste). Crono/Frog/Ayla, 3D Attack is no longer as godly as I once thought, but DROPDOWN + Luminaire will absolutely kick the shit out of everything.
@@SycosenMerihemOk, maybe not useless, but usually 2 "ultimate" single techs will terminate most encounters. And in boss fights (mid-late game) it's usually better to hit 3 strong single techs (or at least just as good) and you don't have to commit multiple characters turns to one attack, so you can use last minute healing or something situational more easily. Ultimatelly these double/triple techs ain't bad at all but usually there's no reason to use them instead of single techs by the end of the game.
Sir. SIR! I just beat chrono Trigger for the first time today, and saying Marle is bad is just wrong. While she doesn't have multihealing, she's one of two characters who can revive party members in a game where item revives are garbage. Also, she gets haste, and gets great combos like ice water and the antipode bomb line to offset her bad solo damage. On top of that, she's a magic tank that shrugs off all of Lavos non-physical attacks.
Haste is mediocre trash in Chrono Trigger. Go charm some panels in any one of the three Black Omens. Charm provides more to the party than Haste does.
@@SycosenMerihem funny your argument against Marle boils down to "haste is useless" while its just one of her multiple gameplay assets.
@@sharilshahed6106 Haste is borderline useless. Nadia has great coefficients on Healing Magic, but garbage for Offensive Magic. Nadia is so bad that the Venus Bow dealing a fixed 777 is actually decent damage for her.
@@SycosenMerihem Tubster in black omen, in the first or second screen, you charm speed tabs of them.
It's so super easy to get star/star in haste stat for everyone that the haste spell is useless if you're willing to grind speed tabs.
@@xenxander That's pretty much the point I make constantly around here. There's also the fact that it was a JOKE to get Auto-Haste, and therefore a casted Haste was even more worthless.
There's more merit to it now given the Master's Crown and Prism Spec combo, but enemies don't live long enough to get any real value from Haste.
"...party members who are just absolutely useless and no one in their right mind would use in their party!"
Half of the comments on this video: I use Marle...
Should we be offended? lol.
The comments are providing valid counter arguments for Marle being a wrong choice for this list, so i don't think the right word here is "offended", but "appalled" instead.
We're all appalled that he missed the point of Marle's strengths in battle and only judged her based on roles she is not supposed to be taking. Chrono trigger has a Double and Triple Tech systems, which allows two or more characters to come together to perform different kinds of attacks, with the one involving Marle being among the strongest due to her massive Magic Stats, not to mention her exclusive Haste spell that doubles your characters' Speed Stat (allowing to attack twice in a single "turn").
Sure, if you analyze her by herself, and not utilizing the game's mechanics that allow her role to shine through, she seems like a pretty bad character to have in your party... but so are everyone else, with Chrono being unable to heal anyone without Double Techs, or Ayla and Robo being unable to use Magic attacks without combining with the rest of the cast. You can make every character in CT look bad if you remove from your analysis the elements of the game they were designed for.
tbh chu chu's potentially not 'the' worst party member either
she's got the unique ability to heal gears without a gear accessory slot used or fuel drained she doesn't use fuel anyway is immune to gear status effects iirc and if you build up her base stats she's really strong in giant form
it's more she's weird and creepy that she's not used not that she's the worst
I never used her. I agree with the video.
I can agree with people's argument that every character on the game is viable but Marle is always the first person that I dropped off the party.
James Miller It’s an understandable choice, but all of Marle’s dual techs with the other characters and busted screen nukes, so you should use her in your next run of the game. Her dual techs plus haste make her an excellent choice for any battle, plus the “multi-heal” that she doesn’t have only matters against Lavos or Zeal.
@@falconstriker87 trust me seeing everyone go ape shitt in the comment section makes me want to check her out in the next run.
Funny thing is I only clicked on this video in the first place because I saw her picture on the thumb nail and wanted to compare experiences.😆
Marle?? Wow, I liked her. I mean, everyone in the game is useful, but I'd put Lucca below Marle.
Poor Marle. I don't like that such an upbeat, fun character is shat on merely because another party member one-ups her about halfway through the game. She still has Haste, and some of the best Triple Techs like Lifeline and Arc Impulse.
If we're looking for party members who are crippled by joining too late to make an impact, may I present from one of my favorite games: captain Masaki Izuna of Devil Survivor: Overclocked. She joins a mere handful of battles before the end! Her physical-focused stats aren't nearly good enough to replace any of your top team with. Unlike Marle, she doesn't have much in the way of character to back it up either. While I consider the sequel inferior in most aspects, it does avoid this by introducing all your characters in the first 3 days.
Lol sounds like fft meliadoul, though at least the remake lets her use her equipment breaking abilities to damage animals. Orlandu was like set it and forget it, plus he had haste
Marle is probably my most indispensable party member, lol. Haste is the best spell in the game, she’s got great double and triple techs, and her magic stat / magic defense are top notch. All of the characters are useful although I get the least use out of Frog.
Haste is not even REMOTELY close to being the best Spell in the game. Her magic stat isn't of consequence. If you want to talk Haste, go and look at its Final Fantasy Incarnations and then come back and talk about what you think its value is.
Samael Merihem fair enough. I just find speed to be a more important stat in Chrono Trigger. Magic stats also make a big difference if you keep your characters’ levels down. I’ll make it a point to use the fast spells in my next Final Fantasy playthroughs.
@@joejoejohnson8310 Speed, is a critical stat. Of which you get far too many Speed Tabs and it is a joke to 16 Speed your entire party with one set of Black Omens. Haste suffers similarly to FF6, where you're having characters overlapping turns. Granted, it's less waiting for Dual Techs especially with characters that have odd (not literally) speed stats such as Lucca.
Samael Merihem haste can increase your speed even if you have 16 speed.
@@joejoejohnson8310 Of course it can, but the effectiveness of Haste is very limited, especially at that level (which is not hard to achieve), and you are not getting the full effect of Haste compared to other games.
Funny thing about Chu Chu...if you pump her full of drive, she actually outclasses gears entirely. It takes forever though.
Chu Chu was such a weird character. It seemed like rpg's back then had a rule that you HAD to cram in at least one cutesy/goofy animal character for the kiddos.
Gotta have that mascot character who will look cute as a plush
@@Zezlemet I thought that too lol. But I've never seen any Chu Chu plushies.
The law of Ewoks.
Besides the cutesy non-human characters, playable children characters are my least favorite.
@@acidwizard6528 Totally agree!
Lol, Grune gets the best spells in the game, and everyone can heal using items without any problem, totally disagree with Grune in this list.
Me too. This game's fights are in 2D--you don't need more than 2 physical attackers running at someone at once, and those two will always be Senel and Chloe. Your other two spots can be any two of Norma, Grune, and Shirley.
Is there going to be a best rpg party members list eventually
That would be cool as would a list of good characters that tend to get over looked. I could come io with a few like Peco from Breath of Fire 3 (whom I never used to use thinking he sucked because you had to work him up from a lower level [if memory serves he was level 1 when you get him]).
Golden sun would win maybe
Flonne of Disgaea, for sure.
She requires a tiny bit of investment to get an offensive spell on her, then she can basically solo the game from there. She's one of two characters in the game that can compete at any level with the postgame "I'm better than anyone at everything" class.
She returns in all of her glory for Disgaea Dimension 2, as well, requiring similar effort to get off the ground, but now she has a personal ability that boosts her stats by 10% every time she heals someone to full health until the end of the map.
Disgaea 4's Desco is another contender. She's your first party member who can kill groups of enemies by herself in one go, is incredibly tanky, flies, and makes a great target for monster fusion, further increasing the range and area of what she can carpet bomb, and allowing you to come up with silly ability combinations.
Makai Kingdom's Prinny. They take a bit of work to get, but once you unlock 'em, they are the only creatable characters in the game with both high stats and big inventories. They suck as any sort of Int-based character, but do very well as anything else.
They're basically the only generic character that can keep up with the postgame unique characters, too.
Agate From Trails In The Sky, I fucking Hate Him But He's Really Good, There's Also Ras From Tales Of Eternia( He doesn't Stay For Long Though )
Yuna from FFX. With Yojimbo she can one shot kill bosses, including Jecht's forms, with a little luck. That luck percentage seems a good bit higher in the remaster. Not to mention having multiple health bars and stored overdrives from her aeons. She gets incredibly strong.
I gotta say, I actually used Marle for my entire run of Chrono Trigger, she's definitely not on the same tier as any of the other characters on these lists.
I feel like the "bad party member" epidemic was at its zenith in the PSone era though. I just feel like so many of those games had underwhelming party members
Chu don't know now to use Chu Chu. She's the most powerful character in Xenogears
I think the issue most people have with that is that you need to grind quite a bit to afford Big Joe's Drives to make Chu Chu a proper force chu be reckoned with.
Well yeah she really need great investment on stat increasing items. But your hard works are paid off when against deus even at her most powerful form(all her sattelites still intact) she can heal other gears as cheap as using ap. And she can use normal item to heal her
Love your content David!!! On my days off I love snacking and listening to your videos lol youve inspired me to want to play lunar silver story, been on the lookout for a copy. Keep em coming!
Seeing Part 1 of this video, Cid didn't have enough commands and Golbez got the Darth Vader treatment, so Edge became playable instead of Golbez in the original Final Fantasy IV. The creator of Final Fantasy IV intended to make Golbez the final playable character instead of Edge.
I'm glad they didn't. I always loved ninjas.
@@jc.1191 Why? Darth Vader clones are overrated. If Filly Fantasy IV was made, Sunset Shimmer would be playable instead of Flash Sentry because she is the perfect stand-in for a playable Golbez replacing all of Edward Geraldine sprites with her own making up for Golbez not being playable in the vanilla game. Fluttershy, despite portraying as Rosa in Filly Fantasy IV would be changed to a ninja because it is part of the reason why Sunset Shimmer becomes playable later on in the game. And also, Sunset Shimmer is easier to understand because she was the main character in the Equestria Girls series being the protagonist in the majority of her appearances. In Equestria Girls, Sunset acts the same as Golbez in Final Fantasy IV, but in her own actions. If Filly Fantasy IV was made, I would request somebody making Sunset Shimmer a playable character using the Playable Golbez Edition as a base, but make her distinguished from Golbez as possible.
@@GardevoirBoy Probably because of ninja turtles and ninja gaiden. Idk, always thought they were cool. I liked Edges character enough as being heroic. And enjoyed his battle command, and attributes of various equipment. Golbez I loved as a villain, and prefer like the games treatment where he attempts to beat Zemus. I just didn't care for the limited interaction after his defeat, that's on Cecil tho.
I love FFIV and After Years, I know both of them by heart... But I literally forgot about Harley's existence. Maybe that shows how pointless she is
The ONLY thing that you shoud remember about her is the Ecomomy Ring that she comes with
While Edward got a pretty heavy pair of balls of steel in The After Years.
I wish she had been better because I really dig their love story. I feel like Harley and the romance plot just fell flat due to timing 😭
@@mallicite136 They shoved too many characters in that game, with almost half of them being either bad or useless
Wgamer 100%! Cool premise, poorly executed 🙈
WOAH THERE.
I use Marle for her Double, Triple Techs, and her Haste ability is a lifesaver against bosses like Magus and the final boss. Without her, my party is mince meat.
Apparently if you use combined techs you're "doing it wrong." I mean, I grant it's not the most efficient way to do things, but keeping "pure efficiency" in mind is a rather lame way of playing the game.
And the tirano battle is good is haste
Well, Chrono Trigger is my all time favorite game, and the number is probably in the triple digits in how many times I've competed it. In all my experience, my most favorable team was always Chrono, Marle and Ayla...so given that, sorry, Marle isn't very bad. Very shortsighted to make her sound as pitiful as you do...maybe you are just a tad uneducated or uninformed in how she is best used. And in my many years of playing the game, Haste was always one of my favorite, and most valuable spells...and guess what, only one character can use it. Guess who that is.
Marle is the original Ice Princess of rpgs. I replayed Chrono Trigger as my first game of 2020 and haste is literally game breaking against every boss.
Real shame they nixed Harley's blue magic. Would have added a lot to that lackluster cash grab of a game.
Yeah, i agree. Blue magic in FF4 universe, sounds amazing!(at least to me)
@@martinde-serres8724 well, guess you're right, but it's not like i enjoy blue magic, itis just... the fact that we could've had BM in FF4 TAY would've made the game more intreresting, there would be more stuff to do. I don't know how to say what i think about it, i hope that was close enough.
@@martinde-serres8724 Actually, i never played TAY, but from what i have seen, there's not a lot of new stuff, probably because we explored the whole world in vanilla FF4.
@@martinde-serres8724 Blue magic is actually amazing in FF VII and is also very easy to learn
@@martinde-serres8724 man how can one guy have such a wrong opinion? Blue Magic is close to broken in pretty much every game it is in and you play your cards right and just know the game some getting it isn't that hard. Sure I guess that is more useful info for return plays sometimes but yeah.
FFV- intro to it does not disappoint. For starters it can equip shields. For starters you give him bare handed and you get monk HP to work with. Which buffs vampire, ????, and white wind.
-Wind Magic's more advanced techs are learned before you can get their black magic counters if you know how to (so aero 2 and 3 can be learned before fire, ice, bolt 2 and 3). Air knife upgrades Aero to be flare level strong. Oh and less enemies resist wind and are more often weak to it. Yeah Aero 3 is 140 in power vs 185 for the black mage types but oh man you can easily get Aero 3 before the black mage counter parts.
-AquaRake, non elemental in this game. Easy to find (not so much as get at 1st but yeah it is possible to get when you 1st have access to it if you know how to fight that mini boss). Oh and it power wise is as strong as a buffed level 2 magic (so fire 2 or so with fire rod).
-Goblin Punch was great in it. A 0 cast single target spell that worked like a normal attack and used your weapon for the damage? Oh and if you are the same level as the target you do 5x damage? Oh and normal story wise your bosses if you don't grind like crazy will be around your level.
-Level 5 doom, well the level spells are good in general and with dark shock you can easily hit them. Atmos is weak to sleep but he is also level 41. Dark shock his ass and you can level 5 doom one of the most deadly bosses in FF5. Oh and with bone mail you can full cure yourself.
-White wind. Works with bone mail on. Confuse a fan enemy in the final dungeon of world 1.
-Flash, toad song. Blind makes all physical attacks loss 75% of their accuracy. Toad song works on the mammoth boss.
I could go on and go into how Quina and your hot teacher in FF8 are broken, FF7 gives a disk 1 nuke if you know how to deal with a snake, and Strago is bad ass but I'm getting rather a head of myself with just FF5.
www.sullla.com/FF/bluemage.html
This is good reading though (oh and I kid about your opinion, you are free to have it lol).
Marle doesnt belong on this list in the slightest. Has access to some of the best single target spells in the game and is one of the best double/triple tech users as well. A true team support character. Mostly.
Marle USELESS!?
Haste would like a word with you, and he brought his friends Deltaforce, Eternal Darkness and Lifeline!
You should have that word with Haste, Haste is pretty fucking whack in Chrono Trigger at 16 speed, especially when you compare it to its incarnations in FF.
@@SycosenMerihem doesn't even compare that way.
@@sharilshahed6106 It's a great comparison, given that people want to say "great/powerful" Haste is. It's extraordinarily similar to FF6 in both its mediocrity and the consequence of party members stepping on each others toes / wasting raw benefit.
Hey man, just wanted to tell you that you make some good stuff. ran into part 1 of this video and I am glad that I discovered your channel!
Wait, wait you are actually complaining the Grune from Tales of Legendia has no healing. I think you are looking for the wrong things in her. Each mage in tales of Legendia has something going for them.
Grune is more of a damage than anything else, although it takes a while for her to get her other spells. Its unrealistic to expect every mage to have healing. That's like complaining that a black mage character has no healing.
He didn't even mention, the real problem with her:that she has a tendency to heal the enemies. If I remember correctly, she even gets a title out of it if it happens enough times . 😄
It's more that the other mages DO have healing and magic in legendia is "meh" at best compared to the physical characters so if your gonna use a mage at all there's basically no reason to pick Grune over the others who can heal as well as contribute damage wise.
@@TheFoxYoukai I'm going to be honest, I just depended on Norma for healing after she got her multi heal (Plus healing items). Thanks to the shortcut tab it got me through the whole game and I never had to worry about party members too much.
On a weird side note Dark Senel and Dark Shirley gave me more trouble than the final boss of the game.
Suggestion: Top 10 party members that are too overpowered.
I am reminded of Cream the Rabbit from Sonic Chronicles. She is TOO good at HP and PP regeneration.
As for Fire Emblem; there is a couple you could choose from the series. A very good example is Ced from Genealogy of the Holy War and Thracia 776. Especially when he has Forseti; which was downright broken back then. Also from Genealogy is Sigurd; the dude even gets a silver sword in the first chapter! Then there is Seth, due to Sacred Stones being one of the easier games in the series. Oh; and let's not potentially forget about the royal family members from Fire Emblem Fates; especially Ryoma.
From the cousin series, Advance Wars, we have Max in the first two games. He is supposed to be weak with his indirect units, but he still had very powerful direct units in the first game and generally got a boost in movement range with his CO and Super CO power before the third entry in the Advance Wars branch of Nintendo Wars; Dual Strike. There is also Colin in Advance Wars 2; the boost he gets from money in regards to his CO power was too much in general.
1: Orlandu
Knight Sword not only does excellent damage, but DRAINS life, too.
@Dark StarSeed I have no doubt in my mind that Ana is really, really strong. But imo the one that takes the cake is Ness. Like holy shit is he busted. Not only he has the best stat spread in any game, his PSI is also extremely powerful. He can one shot enemies, support your entire party, revive your entire party ( since he has the best healing abilities in the game), and he literally doesn't die ( I had to make an effort to kill him). The only disadvantage I see on him is that he is very slow, and his best abilities come pretty late in the game ( But those are definetly worth it). Other than that, he is pretty busted.
Poppi QTPI, it time to shine!
COMPLETELY disagree with Marle. Shes the only character that can cast Haste, Cube Toss and the Antipodes do amazing damage, and the party healing spells are better when used as a dual tech with her.
Yes is good + is individual techs is poor
I think kimarhi is useless from ffx purely from everyone else being so good
I make him go thru rikkus path so I can get steal before she joins, plus two thieves.
@@erikotteson3945 same actually you can get steal\use before she rejoins that way
but really he's no more useless than the rest of them he's just not set on a specific path already
@@erikotteson3945 I am playing FFX right now on Switch, and doing the exact same thing.
Marle+Luca = Antipode 3 which deals lot of damage...
Marle? I find her really useful!! Great video as always
Marle and Frog make Magus's Castle a joke with the Ice Water tech. Triple Tech Lifeline is good good for Lavos.
I'm playing Lavos Awakening ( the hard mod for Chrono trigger ) , and Marle is the best party member I could ask for . The fact that she could cast haste makes her irreplaceable , especially in battles were enemies charge up for strong attacks so you could finish them quickly .
Even in the normal game , Marle is really useful , again with haste , but she also gains powerful spells that combine well with Ayla , Chrono and Frog .
Why is she useless , again ?
I was triggered at first with the mention of Marle, but you’re right......Frog is the bomb.com
I went to watch this video series _entirely_ because part 2 showed up in my recommended and I was thinking "Why is Marle on the thumbnail image? She's not as good as some other party members but she can heal pretty well, can Double Tech multi-target heals at least, is available from pretty early on, AND eventually gets Haste, which I think is closer to an "ultimate" spell for her than Life2 is. Also, DS remake gives her a proper "ultimate weapon," I've heard.
Do not underestimate the power of the Haste side!
Oh, and as a person that plays on the highest difficulty in trails in the sky the 3rd, Josette is really as terrible as he says she is lmao.
She is outclassed in every Stat except range by Estelle, who is already one of the worst characters in the game because she lacks any kind of decent utility on higher difficulties.
Though, she's not a bad character because of her stats, in fact, it's because she lacks any good utility that isn't earth wall bot. And you know who can earth wall bot? Literally everyone, and she doesn't have a particularly good affinity for it given her horrible lines...
Reaching with Marle. Shes great and has a good part of the story
I laughed upon seeing Chu-Chu on this list. The potentially most overpowered character in the game in gear battles. Grind enough drives for Chu-Chu and you get a character that hits for maximum damage and heals other gears using mp.
I know right? i don't think this guy actually played Xenogear properly. Chu chu CAN HEAL OTHER GEARS. That alone bumps her to at least high tier character.
I actually kinda like Chu Chu in battle when in gear form. You can give her Speed shoes + Speed rings (Speed Ring S, if you have it) and she becomes quite fast. And her healing abilities obviate the need for HP Frames, allowing you to outfit your remaining two party members with low-fuel capacity but high output engines without fear of running out of fuel. True, you have Chu Chu in place of someone who could do more damage, but it allows the other two members to be outfitted more aggressively. Good list in any event!
Ryan Hendrickson agreed. Add to that that the lack of character development was likely because of the rush they put on the game in the final disc, cutting who knows how much content.
Again you put one that doesn't belong on the list and that's Marle she's useful there are no bad characters in Chrono trigger
She really isn't that good though.
But she is the worst of the bunch
Marle isn't bad, at worst she's a "meh" character.
@@wiglasgomes2620 Compared to top damage dealers she's meh.
Compared to other healers she's the worst in regards to air heals and party composition.
I could type an essay about how Harley is much better than you think. I got every character to Lv.99, and she is DEFINITELY not the worst.
Best group in Chrono Trigger is Crono,Marle,and Frog. Marle should not be on this list.
Combine her with Frog and you get the ultimate group healing spell.
I will never forget the image of ChuChu being crucified and laughing at the absurdity of it but also in excitement she could be dead.
also you said melvin is towards the end of the game but he comes much sooner than aira.
not to mention you said melvin leaves the team later but actually maribel leaves for like 15 levels
You are waaayyy under selling Marle. Paired with chrono and ayla with haste makes an insane high dps team with final kick.
Man, you're using Chu-Chu wrongly, you boost her with drives, and she becomes a effing hard hitter.
Love interests are ALWAYS the designated healer. I'm genuinely sick of the bubbly childhood friend archetype after playing every Star Ocean.
Dolphinboi Valkyria chronicles 4 breaks that chain but maybe it doesn’t fit this category
whaaat? Though she cant heal, Grune got the best magic eres attacks! 😂😂 I thought Shirley is even worse since Norma pwns in healing abilities
Shirley also only joins in the postgame a bit underleveled if memory serves with weak spells.
@@GiordanDiodato
Technically Will has the highest int in the game and if Legendia was remade into a more modern Tales game Will’s hammer would make him a hybrid fighter that is more useful than Norma or Grune(Shirley’s teriques would still be awesome though)
Me: sees Marle, clicks.
Him: " I guess you can say chuck is hot but I only have eyes for Greg. "
Me: Instantly subscribing.
Great video. I see your point about Marle in battle later on, but as someone paranoid about having 1 HP (see Queen Zeal), having combo healing moves with her and others is fantastic.
Josette has one redeeming factor in Trails 3rd, and that's Bobcat II.
Incidentally, in that attack, Don and Kyle are the ones actually doing the work. Welp.
Please put these in a Playlist!
They're in a top 10 playlist. It's the first thing ony homepage.
@@davidvinc wasn't showing up for me
@@davidvinc found it, thank you!
I like how sometimes you blast someone for sucking when you get them late game . But bash Marle for what ,not being more powerful and being over shadowed by others endgame when she is the first healer .While she might not live up to end game standards in some aspect she is far from someone who should be on this list
6:15 Me thinking this point: "Still zero times two is zero." and boy was I right on the next sentence.
Dude. You make some good points, but... Marle from CT? Did we, uhm... play the same game?
Marle's more of a Red Mage instead of a pure White Mage- her real strength lies in her support spells, dual/triple techs, and above all, her versatility.
If you want to see the real somewhat bottom-of-the-barrel for CT... you look over at everybody's favorite edgelord, Magus. Yes, he gets a bunch of cool Shadow magic that nobody else can learn. On the other hand? He doesn't play nice with others- without any Double Tech combos and only really viable as a party member with certain party lineups and the wasting of one person's accessory slot to equip a Rock to unlock the Triple Tech.
You bring up Frog and Robo as possible replacements? Yeah, they get group heals, but Frog's magic strength sucks compared to Marle's, and Robo's speed is absolutely terrible. Hasted Marle is the best single-target healer in the game, and with access to Arise, well... she can get you back up if you go down, whereas Frog/Robo have to bust out Revives. She doesn't have a big, endgame Ice spell? Neither does Frog and his Water magic- Frog Splash requires him to be at low HP for best effectiveness, and it's just plain damage to boot.
The most patrician party choice in Chrono Trigger is:
Marle
Lucca
Ayla
...I’m Charlie, and they’re all my Angels
Marle huh? Yeah I guess she is a “meh” character, but I never thought of her as useless.
Jose Partida I think haste and all of her outstanding dual techs make her shine through as a decent character, definitely not bad.
This is a terrible analysis of Marle lmao. Marle is arguably the best character in the game. Her advantages over Frog are her magic stat and Haste spell. First of all, Haste is almost certainly the best spell in the game. It almost doubles the damage output of your other 2 party members. Haste is like having 5-6 characters on a team instead of 3. Doing the math, this spell alone makes Marle offensively, and defensively, a contender for best character in the game. On top of this huge advantage, Marle has an enormous magic stat, which means you can dual-tech Marle with other characters, such as Lucca, to achieve crushing damage numbers.
I can tell you never even played Marle seriously when you tried to compare water 2 to ice 2. Did you even try ice 2 vs water 2 in game? You'd immediately see the difference in their magic damage-Marle's will be almost double due to her higher magic stat.
If anything, it's Marle who makes Frog obsolete. Frog's physical damage is inferior to every other physical damage-dealing character; you never want to spend a turn on Frog's physical attacks if you're playing optimally. His Heal is also unviable due to his Magic stat being the 2nd lowest in the game (about equal to Robo). Robo's Heal Beam is barely sufficient for tough fights; Frog's heal, which is about 2/3s the value, is simply not adequate on its own. This leaves his only niche to be a water-damage character or to provide good dual-tech heals, except Marle exists so he's trash here too.
Unlike every other character in the game, Frog offers literally nothing best in slot. His "advantage" is he's a jack of all trades, mediocre at everything, unless you max his stats with tabs. In a team environment, you always want to combine specialists to make a team that's jack of all trades, strong at everything. Any team with Frog can be made better by substituting him with someone else. This video should have been about Frog, and not the strongest character in the game, Marle.
Marle being the strongest character in the game is exaggerating for completely, but I agree that she is not bad, definitely.
Chu-Chu isn't bad for ONE place in Xenogears.
She can heal Gears (and is the only one who can without HP frames), and her form takes no fuel. You can replenish her HP/MP off your item shop items like omegasols etc.
Which tells you where she's most useful: Deus's Labyrinth + the final battle with Deus.
Buy enough Drives to augment her Ether power (which boosts how much she can heal for) and her defense/HP. You'll have to grind frogs for a bit for this or use the money cheat, but once you do, she becomes the best healtank EVER, and is a valuable party member in your party going through the Labyrinth and fighting Deus
Yup, Chu Chu saved my ass during one of those final boss mech battles. I was a kid so I was probably doing something wrong, but she was the only one dealing damage to that thing on the ground. My two other gears were always doing 0 damage to that thing.
Marle isn't bad. In fact, none of the characters in Chrono Trigger are that bad, which is part of why the game is so good. She is a fantastic healer, and we all know how important this is in any RPG, and she has strong magic as well. I love your videos and agree with you usually, but this take feels more like it's for shock value than what you really believe.
The one questionable choice out of all these lists was Marle.
Also wow someone else who played Lufia 2. I'm impressed.
Chuck seems to specifically only be useful for his ability to see enemy's patterns to prepare in the hardest fights, but you could also do that with a guide I suppose. I think he had one other unique thing.
The song you have playing in the intro of this video “searching for friends” I believe is the name? It’s from FF6 (my fav FF ever) and it’s the new world map theme in the dark world after you get the new airship. One of my top 5 favorite songs from a FF game ever and a true masterpiece. I love you just for your music choice alone!!!
Well everyone knows that Deborah was the best wife in V.
Based
The thing with Marle, is that she is Support type character, in a game where you can just skill everything with little effort, not to mention that even damage dealers like Robo and Frog can also heal the whole party.
The only way make the best use of her, is to use combo techs.
7:33 fun fact, in CS3, you can get pictures of different female characters in the game if you send in landscape pictures to one of the characters. And Josette gets beat out by 3 different shopkeepers for it
But seriously, can we discuss Kevin in Seiken Densetsu 3? His biggest strength relies on the day/night cycle. Past that no matter what build you do with him, there's a better cleric, better mage, and better fighters.
Thomas Crummett Kevin does good because he can hit twice
@@Maikeru101 so can Hawkeye. And while Kevin's Deathand job is a hair stronger than Hawkeye's nightblade, Hawkeye makes up for it in multiple spells including one that lowers enemy defense, making that one point null.
I hate when I get a “team mate” that I can’t control, can’t upgrade, or can’t remove from the party. It’ll be fine if that character can old their own, but when you have to protect them or auto-fail.....yeah.
Wow, when a character named after an Insta-Death for enemies, but annoying for you Spell is better than you, that's when you KNOW you're in trouble!
Waiting for suikoden characters.. 😂😂😂
Freed Y
Oh yeah, Suikoden 1 has some characters who take the cake for being god awful loads in a fight, Liukan and Sergei come to mind
More like 20+ characters... per game lmao
Crucified Chu-Chu is pretty metal tho.
Given how you need Chu Chu's healing for the Deux battle, the pink freak being crucified is a regular sight.
Marle is great. Haste is the best spell in the game by a mile until you can get Haste Helm; doubling speed is effectively the same as doubling most other stats at once. Ayla is terrific for a number of reasons and Marle compliments her very well; as someone who doesn't like to use items during battle, Iceberg Toss is the best attack in the game, it has very low mp cost for an attack with that much damage and some aoe.
Chrono/Marle/Ayla is my favorite party.
Harley was originally gonna have the ability to use Blue Magic but the idea was scrapped
Marle?! What's the matter you?
6:35 What that badas wild west music
Edward in the After Years was actually cool, not just in the gameplay but storyline was as well.
Can't say much for his assistant.
I think I already said this last video but do one with the best one’s
Raquel from Wild Arms 4 really sticks out for me. She's something like five times stronger than everyone else. Bosses take two or three hits from her, just with a regular attack.
Honestly the highs and lows of DQVII deserves its own video. There’s a lot of meat on that bone.
I don't agree with Marle being on this list at all, she is a great healer and Frog was usually off destroying things with Chrono with X-Slash. Also, I'm a bit sad that Yuffie, Cait Sith, and Hope haven't even been put on this list yet.
Chu-Chu can heal Gears. She carried me through three of the final five battles in Xenogears, including Deus.
Chu-Chu also died for your sins.
@@SycosenMerihem Indeed she did.
mentioned chuchu too
her healing spell almost alone makes her not worthless
plus if you work on her stats she can become a beast
course it is easier to just have bully with strongest engine ether doubler square attacks and cheese most of the final dungeon anyway
@@leeman27534 I keep running into talking about games with massive opportunity costs in the Party Member slots. Who the hell is really worth a slot aside from Fei, Citan and Billy (or Aerods Exploiting for the Initiated). I don't remember where Esmerelda falls on the totem pole, but Bart was an enormous disappointment, same as Rico. I don't think there's any way Chu-Chu is ever the worst.
@@SycosenMerihem well esemerelda can also be great with an ether doubler (no abilities just her ether moves even in gears), bart's still useful because he can make foes not even hit (and in gear again ether doubler + skills), rico yeah nothing too great other than decent gear, and same for schizbhen or however it's spelled, though it to gets decent ether doubled abilities.
it's just that chu chu has something that's legit unique and VERY powerful specific to her, i mean, normally gear hp restoration is like a third of your fuel tank, or half, it's ridiculous, and it can't be maintained in a single fight for everyone (dungoen crawling yes trade that fuel restore Z item around spend a few fights refilling with one ally, and you're good)
tbh it's also if we're talking on foot or in gears, too. both chuchu and maria don't get deathblows or are good on foot at all, really, while rico is powerful and tanky, is slower than most people even WITH haste. lowered accuracy matters less on foot and bart's not got good ether moves, so kinda meh, billy's pretty good, even has heal all move (and while citan can use a turn to make any of his ethers multitarget, the only other 'heal all' move is chu chu's, also her listed stats are basically doubled for fights so her having like 20 atk and someone else having 40 is around the same), again elly/esemerelda are more the 'mages' of the group so their ether attacks are fairly boss and EP's so cheap to refill can do lots of dmg especially with ether doubler, citan's definitely a clutch player though little less in gear (dunno why but he's basically always almost THE best general character) and fei is of course the main character so he's also well rounded.
chu chu's just frigging weird and seems 'the worst' if you've never actually tried to use her. she makes gear fights almost trivial because without her, it's literally just 'kill them before they can kill us (not that all fights aren't that) or we run out of resources (which for like 2\3rds of the game also isn't much of an issue)' and she just lets you face tank so much with so little trouble. if there was side or postgame content with a serious longevity challenge with gears, she'd 100% be in most people's party during that and not considered the worst character.
i mean in sky SC they randomly added josette in the final chapter and is even less pointless to there. in 3rd she at least has her support ability, but also needs to be used on at least occasion. if i were to stretch it she can at least cast earth wall, so she isn t technically completely useless. well, but so can everyone else.
YES!!! Love waking up to a new David video!
Hi there david, great content and top 10 videos, btw.
Have u ever tried Lufia: The Legend Returns for the GBC before? It is available on the 3DS e-shop. Anyhoo, which of the 12 major party members in that Lufia GB game do you consider the worst?
Marle is really good actually. Haste is by far the best buff, Arc Impulse is super low cost, available early and massive single target damage. If you really want to get serious about bad characters in CT, you should talk about Magus, since he's completely pointless.
Your cat from dark cloud...that gets completely replaced by the genie like 10 minutes later...
Quite honestly, I'm going to have to disagree with you there. As your first ranged attacker, she can very easily hit enemies without fear of retaliation from most, and her slingshots are actually pretty good if you bother to put investment into her. Goro, on the other hand, is much worse: while he hits hard, that's the only advantage he has over any other party member; but he also attacks slowly (can only hit once without his charged attack, and his weapons' speed stat is awful at first), and he NEEDS the dran feather to move at anywhere even close to a brisk pace.
@@matthewkuscienko4616 hmm I may be basing my opinion on the after game thinking about it and maybe the last boss that is a what? 20 year old game at this point?
@@airimee I could see that, sure. I've actually never played that last bonus dungeon, but I personally wouldn't say any of the ranged fighters in the game are the worst character you get (I still think Goro is the overall worst, personally). I'm a lot more well versed about Dark Cloud 2 than the original, to tell you the truth.
First Seconds watching: Melvin, Bianca, and Marle are on the list
Me: I'm here to say that you offended the entire Bianca community of Dragon Quest,
How to solve Mervin's issue make him learn Luminary, Sage, and Druid to make him completely broken, also fun fact in Chrono Trigger the higher character's magic stat is, the more higher the magic attack does, this includes Healing, so you never need to use Heal 2 from Marle, also you've also offended the Marle fanbase, so don't be surprised if you have comments from the following "HOW DARE YOU OFFEND MY WAIFU" or "You sickend me". Same goes for best girl Bianca(Also side note: you do know why Kiefer isn't in your party when you get to Dharma Temple in Dragon Quest 7 right?)
It's very clear that you've never played chrono trigger
Lol, I dont even like CT, only played it twice, and even I know Marle is NOT a bad character.
Replaying Star Ocean The Last Hope right now reminded me of a possible character for part 3: this game's supposed protagonist Edge. Not only is he a failure as captain and leader but he gets obsolete when you get your fifth party member. Soon later the sixth party member Meracle, who is also a melee fighter, outclasses him by far. Unfortunately the game even forces you to use him in a one against one battle later.
I have to agree with you on that, I've played many JRPG's in my life and I never thought I would come across a terrible hero till I played as Edge, from the beginnin he was alright but after alternate Earth blew up he became utter shit personality wise, the way he was moping and not thinkin clearly was really pissin me off at times, but hey it didn't help that he give Milla technology that she had no business usin because she was I manipulative bitch and Edge was dumb enough to fall for it.
@@Grandtheftauto1998 Oh, it's worse than that. He was dumb enough to fall for it after getting warnings from literally every other party conscious member (plus an npc) NOT to give her anything she asked for.
I posted this on the last video's comment,s but I'd have to say that Faize edges Edge out (HA! Puns!) for the worst party member. A mage's skill set with fighter stats (more of a dex fighter, really) ain't winning any prizes.
Yea they did try to warn and poor Faize, well we'll just have to see who from Star Ocean The Last Hope makes it on the list if any of them show up on part 3, I wouldn't be surprised of David chose Lymle instead.
Edge is a decent supporter with his MP stealing buff and some healing spells.
Harley was SUPPOSED to be a blue mage, there's a Blue Magic command with a very robust list in the game files. It was pretty standard for blue magic, had some duds and had some awesome attacks in it. Sadly, for whatever reason it was never fully implemented and we never got that. I'm guessing Gil Toss was a throwaway ability to give her SOMETHING...
I agree with you on Marle. However, in CT plus mod stat buff magic targets the party. Party haste is awesome! Same with the Marle/Lucca/Magus triple tech, and you don’t need to take up an accessory slot to use it.
Great list as usual!
Lexis does have a role in the Ancient cave, where he can equip more stuffs than others and have a wide variety of spells
"Marle sucks"? Ayla and Crono would like a word about that.
People have already been mentioning Marle and how she isn't actually that bad, and I'm going to add to it.
Marle has haste, which is an insanely powerful spell until you have 3 haste helms which doesn't happen until end game. Giving your stronger characters the chance to attack faster is a huge benefit.
She also gets the Antipode spell with Lucca as a dual tech as a very early and goofy source of shadow damage other than Robos laser spin, which won't be hitting that hard until mid to late game once you've got him pumped full of magic tabs.
She has one of the highest innate magic stats allowing her to do good damages on her own, especially when she gets Ice 2. While Frog shares an element with her his magic star isn't nearly as high without some help, he tends to use his physical techs more and his heal spell doesn't heal much more than a Lapis which you can get a good amount of with Ayla's charm ability (plus haste for quicker charms).
I'd almost say Lucca is worse than Marle. Yes she has a strong magic stat as well and some strong attack magic but she is dirt slow. Her speed can be patched up mid game with the Taban gear but later game she'll be suffering from lower defenses unless she upgrades and while she can have speed tabs used on her to patch up her speed other characters like Robo make far better use of those. Her only decent utility spell is also replaced by an item meaning she's not even a decent utility character. Once you get into NG+ and can afford to give her some speed tabs she's a good member for some double and triple techs but I based my analysis off a regular new game run