I feel the barbie subplot, above all else, exemplifies how Blitzo just IGNORES reality in favour what he wants to believe. He'll beleive stolas doesn't love him, he'll beleive that Barbie wants to see him, beleive that he's not the problem in his relationships, because he cannot handle things that go against what's more convenient to him.
I think one of the reasons people disliked this episode is because they really wanted a Millie-focused episode. This is the closest we got, and it's still much more focused on Moxxie, when he already has a few episodes heavily focused on him.
Fortunately it looks like the episode coming out in October will be a bit more Millie-heavy. Personally I can't wait for some more Loona action for... reasons.
Personally i felt like the ONE time we finally got to see Moxxie and Millie get into an argument was over something really goofy. The concept isn't silly, but the way it's executed made me not wanna take it seriously when it seems the show wanted it to be serious, and it was disappointing.
Also to me it felt out of character for Millie. I probably could have bought it if it was built up better but seemed to come out of nowhere. Her feeling insecure was weird to me because people praise her quite often. Moxxie loves her to bits, Blitz has nothing but compliments for her skills as a fighter, her parents obviously love her and even when they are disapproving of her it is a disappointed "you are better than this" not "you suck".
Yeah, I think this is what I dislike the most about the episode. It feels like every time something might be about Millie, it ends up being focusing on Moxie. And then, the second-hand embarrassment humor doesn't really help.
I think the Millie “I’m finally important” complex is more so coming from her always having to make concessions to accommodate Moxxie, especially when you look back at Seeing Stars. She seems to finally feel like she’s being put first and being supported for once rather than being the one supporting everyone else. That’s not explicitly stated anywhere but that’s the vibe I’m getting from that argument.
Yeah, as someone who has had a neurodivergent partner... I loved 'em to bits of course and they were more than worth the effort, but there was a lot of extra maintenance that went into that relationship and it can be easy to feel like you're still not enough.
On a meta level, the conflict in this episode kind of feels like Millie lamenting how little focus she’s been getting in the show so far, especially with Moxxie trying to make everything about himself to compensate for his lack of self esteem (something we saw especially in episodes like 1-5 and 2-3 where the episodes take away some possible Millie development for the sake of more Moxxie characterization)
In the first Striker episode, we do see Millie's parents being very loving towards her as well as undermining her with their comments. It’s nowhere near as extreme or abusive when compared to other character’s parents, but it is there. Her parents diminish her job, insult the person she chose to marry, scold her for getting taken out by Striker, and while not specifically her parents, she was also the only one banned from the ultra-violent games for being too violent and murder happy. Even in hell where murder and violence are the norm, Millie is considered to be way too much. So, her loving all this adoration, praise, and validation does make sense to me. Though that could just be me searching for a connection and I obviously wish we had more exploring Millie before this episode.
I think the general consensus is that it's not "oh god that episode is terrible, I wish it didn't exist" it's more "out of every episode, this one is the worst."
Honestly, story beat wise this episode is probably not that bad, just average. But I really cannot stand second-hand embarrassment humor, it kills me inside. I think a lot of the fandom feels the same way, which is why this one is considered the worst episode of season 2, on top of it just not living up to the quality of the second part of season 2.
I do think that a lot of the hate is just that second-hand embarrassment is a very niche type of humor. I personally couldn't endure it myself, even if i could recognise that it didn't make the episode bad in itself. Otherwise i think it mostly suffer from Blitz obsession with his sister being introduced without much foreshadowing and Barbie herself should have been included in the MnM plot in some way so the two halves of the story feels more connected ,like if Moxie was trying to impress her instead of some random teens. Could also have Millie bond with her over their frustration with their "sibling" before the reveal that her brother is Blitz0
@@blackbloom8552 that, and I wonder if it also has to do with hiatus brain. The fandom is waiting for a new episode to drop, and when it does it's a good-to-meh at most, with cringe comedy, and a sister plot that felt out of place and too short, and then they have to wait yet another 2 months before the next episode releases
Everyone in Wrath is good at violence. I’m too common and unruly. I ain’t special. I’m just unhinged. My parents are nice but they aren’t impressed by me. People celebrating me for one instead of calling me unhinged felt real nice. -Millie
I think the only criticism i have for 4 and 5 is that the b plots should have been switched. Having the barbie wire stuff along with the stolas kidnapping would have helped with the tone. Then having camp stuff along with the loona stuff would have felt better as both are goofier plotlines.
@TrueHavoc13 i think 4 works because it shows how blitz really doesn't think stolas can be hurt, him dealing with his sister stuff would muddly that a bit more.
@@chongwillson972 On the other hand exhibit how blitz prioritizes his failed family relationships more than his current ones and could be a method of exploring that. Him choosing his sister over Stolas is majorly on par for where he is right now and he could still base that decision on his idea that stolas is unable to be hurt.
Honestly, i agree. But i dont think they would have just worked better because of the tone, but also because of the theming of both A and B plots within these episodes... like the Stolas/Striker plot and the Blitz/Barbie plot would both be about people that Blitz cares about, one of which doesnt want him in her life, and the other wants him very much in his life, and Blitz manages to fuck up both ? Those two plots togetehr would have made for a great dramatic episode. The same also goes for the other plots, like pairing up Blitz/Loona and Millie/Moxxie also could go into similar themes, such as relationships and how to properly care for one another, with Blitz/Loona being the father/daughter relationship, and the Millie/Moxxie being the romantic relationship. It would probably be a much more comedic episode as a whole, but i think the themes could have worked really well toegether.
no that doesn't work. the point was the blitz was putting his needs above his sister's, which is what moxxie needed to see to understand how millie got hurt by his own selfishness. they're thematically tied.
Mr skyen... is the third time you teach to me some thing about my self. Please don't stop explaining how I work to my self... it really helps, thank you. First was about arromantism Second ADHD Now people pleasing. Thank you very much keep up the great job sir.
Thank you!!! People confuse cringe comedy and bad writing, or they hate because it "ruined" Moxxie, and i don't even think it was cringe, im able to rewatch it just fine. This episode is fine
I think I cringe so much because I knew a girl that branded herself as the popular one and similarly crashed and burned, so not only did I cringe when it happened, I knew it would as soon as Moxxie revealed his persona to us...
One thing about Millie and what is going on with her: while she is the most stable and healthy of the cast, and her family is generally good, I do think she might struggle a bit with her family disapproving of her life choices: they disapproved of her leaving wrath for Imp City, they don't like Moxxie, and she might feel guilty for no longer helping them on the farm
In my opinion, it fumbled millie's development here hard. Having her so hung up on external validation doesn't fit what we've seen of her at all. Plus Moxie ranging from genuinely cringe-inducing to uncharacteristically ungrateful for his wife felt weird too, and Blitz's plotline didn't feel super well explored. I wouldn't call it awful, but yeah, by far the weakest episode of season 2.
So just making sure you know this because I didn't see it mentioned in the discord chat, but the camp counselor is like 18 or 19. In America to be a camp counselor you need to be an adult, so when she calls him a teenager she means that he's like 18 or 19.
I love the cringe in this episode it's so on point with the 2000's. I haven't even seen Camp Rock but can tell this episode was an homage to it. I don't get why people say Moxie's character was assassinated in this episode, he's always been extra. I like seeing him and Millie have a conflict and resolve it. I love Millie in this epsidoe. I think the biggest legitimate gripes about the episode are that the mystery who killed the client was too quick even just for the joke and also that perhaps it would've been better to give Barb more focus for her introduction.
I do think the gags and jokes here work better than in the Hollywood episode, Spring Breakers or Cherubs. The parentheses of the subtitles viciously turning on Moxxine as well is particularly excellent.
Being neurodivergent and not really understanding a lot of 'common knowledge' things I have to admit, listening to you explain your thoughts in great detail or that part about addiction were really interesting. keep doing what you're doing skyen
To all the "this was advertised as a Millie episode" people: ...Except... it wasn't? People *assumed* it would be a Millie ep because we knew that she would get more spotlight in the future and Millie was featured in 2 of the gifs they teased on twitter. Millie is a central character in this episode and it shows us more about her inner workings, building off of more subtle elements of her background introduced in Harvest Moon Festival. As far as I can tell, no one ever said anything about it being THE Millie solo episode. Fans assumed it would be and set themselves up for disapointment.
Yeah same with Barbs, this WASNT advertised as a Barbie Wire episode, all the gifs in the official account are about MnM, people just managed to connect the fact that Barbie was in it based on the storyboards in the Teaser Trailer. EDIT: Oh we know what the Millie episode is actually! Its called GHOSTFUCKERS and its the next one in line. Brandon confirmed its about Mills and Blitz, kinda how Truth Seekers was about Moxx and Blitz.
I don't have any major beef with this episode - it's fine, but as someone who is completely unaware of what's going on with Helluva Boss until I see the episode turn up on my youtube feed, I was a bit disappointed to see an episode that finally featured Millie so prominently, but still managed to give more of the emotional arc to Moxxie. So I'm not sure the twitter advertising is 100% to blame there.
@@keltzy I mean, yeah, what I'm saying is that the twitter advertisement isn't to blame at all for fans expecting the ep to be something it was never claiming or trying to be. Tbh, I never really had that complaint about the Moxxie thing myself. To me Millie's reaction to Moxxie always spoke so much louder than anything the episode was doing with Moxxie. Don't get me wrong, I love Millie! And I desperately want her to get more screentime and attention. I just don't think she was overshadowed here as much as people say, I suppose.
re: Millie's conflict with her parents that this episode seems to be calling back to. and I do understand that, frankly, her relationship with parents is SO MUCH healthier than almost all of the cast, so it's hard to feel for Millie in comparison to more messed up parent/child issues. but. the way her parents treat her work ("freelance" isn't "normal" work), her choice to live outside of Wrath, her choice of *husband* is clearly "you have to be THIS, and we won't be outwardly judgy much, but know that we are judging you" parents. it's why quite a lot of people are misjudging emotionally neglected characters (or even people), because, on the surface, it's all normal and hunky dory. but this type of commentary is insidious and can mess you up real hard, and "running away from a family" as an oldest child (which Millie is) is even kind of taboo for certain type of cultures or family traditions. so I feel for her. I just wish I didn't have a deathly allergic reaction to American education system and councilor led camps! I still haven't been able to watch the referenced Mean Girls because it PAINS ME.
I really think you're onto something. Especially after Ghostfuckers and that Sallie May short. I think growing up the eldest in a big family of probably rowdy boys (+ Sal, but even Sal was raised with her as a brother until a point) definitely had an effect on her. Seems like they kinda just dump everything on the oldest kid there & that's not cool.
I'm convinced that like 80% of the hate this episode gets is from the opening scene. Seeing Blitzo scale the hospital, it sets the expectation of "He's going to see Stolas" and when the rug is pulled, I've seen many reactors and comments basically saying that that moment put them in a bad mood for the rest of the episode.
Honestly for me I think the reason this episode didn't land was because the "lesson" feels weird. Like, supposedly the moral is that Moxie needs to be more supportive and validating of Millie and not take his self-esteem issues out on her. But we've *repeatedly* seen him validate her throughout the show. He sings her love ballads at every opportunity. And the show validates how badass she is all the time. Millie *regularly* bails them out of situations. (See Truth Seekers, the episode with Moxie's dad, etc.) So the premise of the episode is that Moxie's approach to the whole scenario is not working and he's fucking everything up, and rather than learning to relax or find a different approach or learn to accept that his methods just aren't appropriate all the time or anything else that would feel like growth centered around him, the lesson is that he needs to support Millie more and let her bail them out *again*. It doesn't feel like lessons in keeping with what we've seen about the characters thus far. And just makes Moxie look weaker and less self-sufficient, which his character was already somewhat suffering from. It also feels like a missed opportunity to introduce Blitz's sister and then do almost nothing with her in the episode. She's in basically one scene and we learn very little. And instead we just get a bunch of eye-rolling cringe humor? Felt like a waste.
I just took the millie / moxxie thing as a thing for the audience like "Here is how a disagreement usually goes when you're in a good relationship". Then you see Blitz and Stolas struggle in comparison. Same for seeing how healthy Fizz and Ozzie are in comparison too. Even healthy relationships have hiccups like this. Also Millie just wanted to feel cool about something that wasn't related to how brutal she is in combat. She explained it quite clearly yet folks keep not clicking
45:19 I think from millie’s family there are the interactions with her family about her job and with her sister where I got the feeling millie felt a little inferior. That was how I read into it but idk
You know, I feel like an episode highlighting how Millie might've felt overlooked by her parents would fit really well? Because it's been established both in the background of S1EP5 and in the first Helluva short, that she has a LOT of brothers. It would make sense if she felt like she wasn't really valued, or straight up felt neglected by her parents (if the implications in the short are anything to go by i.e; "but the boys are grown now"). It then would also make sense why she tends to neglect herself (even to the point that the show does), and that she endures when her husband is being selfish; her parents have taught her that she needs to be there to offer support for her people - both because she's a woman and it's expected of women to be support and not the lead, but also because she had to be there to support them when her brothers were younger.
LETS GO EVERYONE AFTER THIS ITS ONLY PEAK EPISODES + "JUST LOOK MY WAY" AND "HELL’S BELLES" WHICH ARE ALSO PEAK 🗣️ Edit: Ok episode 6 and 8 can be argued about if they’re actually "peak" but oh my FUCKING GOD episode 7 and 9…i can’t wait for Skyen to watch them
I have been waiting _so long_ for someone else to articulate the trauma and insight into Millie that I saw when I watched this episode. People gloss over it because "Moxxie cringe", but ever since I saw TB analyze Hazbin I have been waiting to see his analysis of this episode, because I figured if anyone else would see it, it would be TB. It... It feels really good to know that I wasn't crazy. Edit: TB needs to rewatch the episode with Millie's parents, because he's second-guessing himself
In addition to the cringe, a lot of fans spent a lot of energy between this episode and the previous one writing and consuming fanworks where Blitz shows up in Stolas' hospital room and they get the kind of emotional connection that we realistically probably won't see before the Christmas episode at the earliest. Seeing him break into a hospital room and it's not for Stolas? Stolas doesn't even show up? That made a lot of shippers extremely disappointed. In retrospect, of course, it would have been much, much too soon for Blitz to show that kind of emotional vulnerability to Stolas. It would have been wildly out of character, but it's hard to not be impatient when you're waiting for new episodes and so many fanfics already start out with them having an established emotional relationship.
I think people didn’t like this episode because it poked holes into the previously infallible M&M ship, which stands in stark contrast to the messiness that Blitz and Stolas experience. It’s supposed to show that sometimes a reevaluation of boundaries in a relationship can be a good thing
I mean that could be it for some people? I just hate it because it feels mostly like a filler and very random, is not that bad but comparing it to the rest of the episodes it kinda makes it the worst, same with the cherubs episode in the first season
It's mostly because of moxxie being extremely overly preformative. His method acting was grating, and a bit too much over the top. Flawed relationships are interesting and realistic. The M&M dynamic is stronger for this hiccup
its not that their relationship is infallible, see s2 ep2, but this seems like they were going out of their way to force problems in their relationship for the sake of the episode that did not seem in character for either.
so i was thinking about the millie/family thing with her wanting people proud of her and i remembered the family clearly love her but there first few comments on the group arriving was to dismiss millies work as "working for free" and she had to explain its freelance not free also not letting her take part in the games due to apparent body count when its clear the sister also has one so why was she not banned its certainly not as overt as the trio of bad dads in the show its that more subtle little things that show that even if they love her theres little things that they dont approve of
an episode which i usually skip during my rewatches of the show and like with many in your chat, you managed to make me see it in a new light. thankful for you!
46:00 Millie in episode 1 said that she loves Moxxie because he has a good heart. This is part of the arc. Moxxie himself said in episode 3 of this season that he doesn't deserve woman like Millie. Maybe something will be connected with Moxxie’s goodness in the flashback, for example how he and Millie started dating. Millie thought that Moxxie would behave badly like everyone in hell or cruelly like everyone in the Wrath Ring, but on the contrary, he did something good, so she fell in love with him. But of course Moxxie doesn’t accept this and considers himself unworthy of Millie and this will be a plot point in the future. The flashback will not be shown until this plot point becomes important. Moxxie's good heart
This fanbase has a lot of issues with exploration of tropes through unpleasant means, everyone reacted with vitriol to Striker not being a complete badass the same way as Millie and Moxxie having completely normal couple issues when they're commonly portrayed as relationship goals
From what i’ve heard, people’s main problems with this episode are how Moxxie’s character was "killed" (which i don’t agree with) and how the plot of Blitzø’s sister felt forced into the episode (which i do agree with) I personally think that the way Moxxie’s character acted in this episode felt believable as a Moxxie thing to do, although i understand why people are so annoyed at the way they wrote him in this episode because he has never acted quite like this in the past, i just think that they should have given him more "jerk" moments in previous episodes to not make his attitude in this episode feel like such a huge lead from how he usually acts. And as for the Barbie plot, i just thing that there should have been more buildup to it and it would have felt more natural or it should have been it’s own story episode.
People who say it killed Moxxie's character didnt pay attention bc Moxx has always been like this, he's a little shit (affectionate) who can be self centered and petty, we've known this
A big part of the issue is that the episode was advertise with her but she only appears at the end and doesnt really relate to everything else going on. She should have been mroe tied into the MnM so the reveal that she was Barbie wire would have had more impact.
Mox feels so disconnected from his actual character in this ep, he aligns more with his Pilot self but i just dont know, it just feels weird how they make him such a dickhead and how they kinda pull Millie's insecurities out of nowhere considering how she has reacted to other characters critizicing her in the past, I think Millie's insecurities and Moxxie's dickhead actitude are perfectly valid aspects to have in their character but i feel there was no build up to either of those aspects
I agree. So the two problems I have with the whole tone in this episode: 1) Wy is Blitzo searching for out of the sudden? Because he doesn't seem to search before that. I miss the "reason" behind Blitzo's actions. 2) Barbie Wire. We saw a poster in season 1 titled "The amazing imp twins". It was in the background and only for seconds. But then she seems forgotten by the team. If the team would sneak more of her in the last episodes this episode didn't much feel random. It would then make sense that Bitzo is searching for her - again if he has a reason to find her. I don't think Moxxie's character was killed. It's actually character development. And to see how he would take a hit it's actually true to his personality. Moxxie likes things in certain order and likes to play by the "rules". Also he likes to be liked - remember he was only kid and probably hadn't much people in his age to play with. And of course he is overly dramatic hence to his musical theater hobby.
1:06:17 White marks on their skin for imps is actually scar tissue. So if it isn't their horns or hair then white on an imp means they've been injured in the past. In Barbie's case, it certainly does seem to be deliberate which would indicate it was some form of tattooing (or possibly an attempt to disguise previous signs of self-harm), which definitely does separate it from the random splotches you normally see like on Blitz's face.
@gearguts7259 It's never explicitly stated in the show, and if these characters had the exact same design ideas but were humans they'd still have the scars with the only difference being it'd be immediately recognizable that that's what they were. Saying this is a spoiler is like saying "Zuko has a scar" is a spoiler for AtLA.
Im sure Viv is watching this with a smile, your reviews are very well thought through, and really well articulated. I love the way to geek out on the cool stuff nobody else notices
Yeah, I think it’s just because so many people who relate to Moxxie don’t like seeing this part of themselves in him, so they call it bad character writing instead.
I think it is just bad writing. I mean, the writing for Moxxie is just so unfocused this episode. Moxxie both wants to get the job done and impress Blitz, but he also doesn’t care at all about the job and just wants to be popular with a bunch of human children for no reason. Moxxie and Millie can have fights, but they only fought because Moxxie wants to be popular for no reason which means the fight happened for no reason. The whole episode just felt kinda random and that doesn’t really work when you want to have emotional moments.
For me it's the opposite: I see myself a bit in Moxxie and wish they explored it with better storytelling. Why do they care what a bunch of human kids think? This arch could have been more effective and meaningful if they were trying to impress other adults.
@@a.t.9197 Right? Maybe Moxxie never got to have a childhood because of his dad and this is his chance to finally get to experience it. Maybe Loona says something to him at the beginning of the episode about how he’s not good enough for Millie and he’s convinced himself that he needs to beat her at these camp games to prove himself. Just give us something!
I came here to watch a funny man say funny things and watch the funny imp show. I did not expect to be called out on my hypervigilant trauma fawning behavior goddammit xD (But I do appreciate it, thank you Skyen)
I can't handle cringe at all, so running into an episode centered on it this far into a series turned this into an episode i could barely watch, so it's easily my least favorite episode if probably not the actual worst episode
So many people can’t handle cringe so I think that is a big reason why people hate this episode they hate the character Moxie is playing and the cringe and thus hate everything about the episode
To be honest, I feel like some fans aren't really letting the creators just have fun episodes sometimes. Maybe this is too much of me having grown up with cable television with lots of filler, but not every episode needs to be some masterpiece and I don't think this show was initially intended to be this deep going into it. We've not even finished a second season yet. I think this show is allowed to have an okay filler episode or two.
"filler" as a term has been bastardized to the point where ppl use it on character exploration epiaodes like these, when it was never meant for it. Filler is an anime tern that talks about the episodes that had to be created because the anime got up to date with the Manga, so every story AND characterization runs to a halt for a batch of episodes while they wait. Exploring a character in a more low-stakes scenario is not filller bc theres character development in it, something that filler episodes are not allowed to do bc what they may or not learn may conflict with the manga
@@gearguts7259 I do agree that this episode does serve some purpose in characterization for *both* Moxxie and Millie. I just meant in terms of episodes that don't serve the overarching plot that's mainly about Blitzø and his relationships with others. I don't exactly know a convenient word for it, so I just went with filler even though I agree it's not *really* filler in the technical sense. Every single episode and short in this series has some degree of characterization going on, so there hasn't been any meaningless episodes so far in that sense. Though that does bring me back to the original point which is that I think some fans are taking this show way too seriously and not letting the creators just have fun with it.
@@Kimmie6772 Oh no no Im agreeing with you Im just clarifying that a lot of hate for "filler episodes" are like, bc the term has been switched so it means different stuff for different folks!
During the intro my brain went to "They say this episode sucks so hard that nobody can get through it without climaxing" ..... I think I've been watching this show to much xD!
The second-hand embarrassment with the MnM stuff is what makes those parts pretty much unwatchable for me. But me feeling cringe over them doesn’t mean it’s BAD. Also with Millie’s issue this episode… way back in Harvest Moon Festival, her parents were really critical of her. She’s also the oldest of 5 kids, and presumably had at least a little bit of parentification growing up (helping out with her brothers and the ranch). So there’s a bit of her getting lost and taken for granted as the support. And while she does support Mox a lot, he also does spend a fair amount of time seeing HER and focusing on her (such as all the effort he put into planning their anniversary to make it special for her). Also in Barb’s defense, Jimmy is 18 or 19. So that tiny window of being both a teenager and an adult… (This was confirmed in a con panel, so that issue of them worldbuilding/confirming things outside the show rearing its head again…) Also the scars X-ing out her forehead tattoo… That’s there, along with the other aesthetic scars, in the poster of her and Blitzø in the IMP conference room. And those were left intentionally- a version of the poster shows up in the pilot with their mom(?) and Blitzø has his scars in the pilot version too. But they removed Tilla (turning it from Imp Siblings to Imp Twins in the title) and they removed Blitzø’s scars… (And none of this is spoilers-just pointing out what’s been in the background in the pilot and a good time to see the poster is in CHERUB.)
This is just my theory based on how I felt. The episode started in a hospital in Sloth and I got so excited that Blitzo was breacking in to see Stolas, just for it to poll a 180 on me and be Barbie that Blitzo was looking for. I could not recover for that disappointment. I think people would have enjoied it more if it came before western vibes tbh People also scream character assassination, but I don't see it tbh. On repeats, after I got my Stolitz countinuation, I actually started to really like this episode more and more. But yeah, the original dissapointment ruined the first watch. And I started Helluva boss this year. Can't imagine the dissapointment people had when they had to wait months for the next episode
Glad to see you react to the episodes so quickly, exceited to see your reaction to the rest of the season, imo the next 4 episodes are the peak of the show so far.
THIS IS WHAT IM SAYING - I actually love this episode? “You Got The Power” was stuck in my head for days! I get that people didn’t like the Millie placation they were being fed, but I love M&M in general, so I didn’t mind. Plus we got to meet Barbie!! ❤
You Got The Power is a bop. I really enjoy the song about how cool Millie's male persona is as well. @gearguts7259 I never enjoyed the latter. Mostly because I just can't properly hear most of the lyrics, the insturmental really overpowers it.
@@gokbay3057Fingers crossed they’ll put the music on Spotify one day so we can have them without the sound effects and dialogue - I still want a full version of Vacay 2 Bonetown
I dont think its the worst episode, its just boring and annoying for most of it, and since hb episodes take a lit of time to be released it stings with people more when the episode is on the lower end
It is a perfectly fine episode, the only reason why people seem to hate it, is because cringe comedy is very hard to get right and people nowadays often think cringe automatically means bad. Which isnt the case.
watching this one as I get the notification for the new short story is like actual physical torture, I'll still finish this one first because these are a highlight of my week.
About the white marks on Barb, since white on imps are scars, I've always thought that for barb it was self-harm scars. I've been trought that and still am and for me those really looks like cuts that she would of made herself. I mean what else could of made these inconsistent and also "X" shape marks. Also her being an addict, maybe drugs wasn't the only thing she was addicted to since self-harm is a form of addiction and an effective way to transform your mental pain into a physical one. Can be a way to stop thinking and put you in a different headspace wich is also what drugs do, make you forget for a little while. That's my read on her character anyway.
I guess what ticked me off at first was that in past episodes of season one Moxxie would criticize other characters for not taking missions seriously. Then in this episode, he draws out the mission for his own fantasy. Moxxie is my fav character, and his insecurities are part of what makes him a good character, but here he was the punching bag of the episode, and didn’t actually make up for his actions because he didn’t finish the job himself. I also didn’t like that we didn’t really learn anything new about Millie. We already knew she was strong and athletic. I wish the two of them caught the guy right away, but stayed because Moxxie wanted to investigate the drug stuff. Which would lead them to Barb. Maybe that wouldn’t make it better. Just an idea.
This is aligned with moxie's character. But this is very much a degression of his character. He sees the writing on the wall. And doubles down. Not once. Not twice but three times, in day 1. Nevermind the whole week. It's forced. Sure Moxie has Low EQ, but has shown a level of logic and reason. That should be able to tell something is wrong, something isn't working. It's such an assassination of his character, turning up his character flaw by a factor of x5 And for what? For Mille to have an Accessory complex? When this is the only legit time it would be moxie's fault... A scenario is already out of character? It's so unnatural that none of it feels earned or warrented
I don't think this episode bothers me like it bothers a lot of people, but I do remember seeing what I felt were some valid criticisms. I've seen some say that it feels like the show is frequently rehashing Moxxie's insecurity and need to prove himself. And while I can see an argument that insecurity like that would take some time to overcome, and it's not entirely unbelievable that it would come up more than once, I also understand fans being frustrated at so many episodes focusing on Moxxie's insecurity when we can't get even one Millie-centric episode that gets into her inner thoughts and feelings (to the point that even the episodes about Millie's family and Moxxie and Miilie's mutual ex are about Moxxie and not her). Millie's feelings finally got a bit more spotlight here, but like Skyen pointed out, we still don't really get a sense of her past and inner motivations like we do with Moxxie. I can also see how the interaction between Moxxie and Blitz in this episode kind of cheapens the moment they shared in Truth Seekers and makes it feel like they're back at square one.
I wish this episode was more like that episode in the Harley Quinn animated series, season 2 I believe, where the cast infiltrates riddler’s college pretending to be students and clay face takes the form of a girl and turns into the most popular person in the school. While the rest of the team is trying to figure out the mystery, clay face is thriving in the school life and gets WAY into his character, but he’s actually good at it! He is extremely good at fitting in while being hilarious and helpful to the investigation by getting intel from students. I wish in this episode Moxxie was good at fitting in, so instead of cringe comedy we have situational comedy and him killing it while cross dressing. I think that’s what most people wanted when we got a sneak peek of this episode. If Mox thrived then we could actually get some focus on Millie and her development, instead of another episode about Moxxie’s insecurities.
35:36 and heres why people hate this episode the "character assissnation" of Moxxie here. I don't get why people think this ruins his character given what we saw his childhood was like.
Honestly. I think us Danes/Scandinavians have a leg up when it comes to cringe comedy considering how many of us survived watching "Klovn" I honestly love the cringe comedy, it is the perfect amount of over the top without making me hate myself for watching it like the afforementioned danish hellshow "Klovn" (Which translates to Clown for those of you curious)
Finally! VALIDATION that it is a well done animation, regardless of the script, content or humor. At its base the quality of the animation is good from an professional standpoint
Most of the time when i see people that say that this is there modt disliked episode it has to do with the cringe humor. For me personally despite the plot not being the best I still find it enjoyable, even with the cringe humor lol
As a trans person your view on this having gender presentation and stuff wow I was also overthinking alot about the fact of moxxie relationship with being so neuro divergent coding and also having this stuff with "being femenine"
I think coming back to this episode, it's nowhere near as bad as it made me feel when it first came out. You mentioned a lot of the big things that still don't sit right with me, like Millie's emotional conflict just not really feeling established enough to have weight and the cringe comedy, but the thing that bothered me more in terms of "cringe" is just how immature Moxxy felt. Like, you hit on all of the details about his internalized insecurities and emotional baggage, but even with that, he was just unbearable to watch and so shitty toward Millie in a way that really contradicted so much of his established character. I also think some of the backlash also came down to the experience of getting this dropped after waiting for a new episode. Personally, I was ready and excited to see more of Millie's character and this being the first real attempt to address her underdevelopment felt... bad, especially with all of the extra emphasis being put on Moxxy's issues. It was also an abrupt pivot from where last episode left off, so it also just didn't really advance the Stolas plotline I was hoping to see as well. All of that just made the issues with this episode stand out more than others.
Thanks for another great Reaction! As for the Millie situation and reasoning for her need for Validation, I would argue that it's not even that. Personally I think that Millie just being from the big countryside family with lots of siblings, rarely had an opportunity to be praised as an individual or even feel like one. Not necessarily due to Parental neglect or intention but just as an unfortunate side effect that large families often have. I would even prefer that reasoning as having a broody and dark past for every character is not only unrealistic and boring, but also makes it harder to relate to. Most of us had what would be considered a normal upbringing, yet many of us still manage to feel like crap all the time, and get extremely happy for any praise or acknowledgment. Obviously I'm speaking with limiting my knowledge up to this episode, so I'm not saying that it will or won't be explored later, and it's just a personal opinion. Anyways thanks again for awesome reaction and not bending your opinion to outside pressure. I may often have a different opinion or take then you, but I always appreciate someone who comes up with his own conclusions, and it's always more interesting to see different thought process. PS Don't also let people swing your opinion the other way, and overhype you on something, it's a separate but very similar problem. Although watching your past reactions I believe that you won't :).
Funny enough I see this as season 2 finally getting a handle on its tone consistency from the moment to moment of episodes. The last two struggled so much to with their tone that having an even episode was honestly a breath of fresh air.
This was reported as the worst episode? Sense when did it pass Seeing Stars's reputation? Going to be completly honest, I always thought this one was the most forgetable, along S2 E4, which is sad becasue both of them have some good stuff that still builds one what was already established pretty well.
To sum up why people hate this episode myself included in 3 words "Moxxie is insufferable" this felt like a body snatcher took Moxxie's form and tried to ruin their marriage
Really love these kind of videos that i cant really seem to find anywhere else. if ever find the time id also suggest castlevania. id love to see you analyisis a show like that. its very similar to helluva as in the characters are very complex and a lot can be analized about them. the animation is also pretty stellar. doesent really matter, it was just a cool thought i had. love ur stuff and hope to see more in the future
The most common issue I saw people take with it was that it was seen as character assassination of Moxxie, in that what he's doing is so over the top 'dumb' that it makes him look terrible, meanwhile Millies storyline is sort of half-baked and not really supported by other bits of the story. Add to that the over the top cringe elements (and by god the Moxxine parts are hard to watch) and you start to see where it's all coming from.
I may be wrong but I think it's less about gender and more about the attention/validation. Millie does have a lot of siblings Edit: chat said it better than I could: eldest child syndrome
I have been SO excited to see your critique of this episode, because I've been DYING for an actually nuanced and thoughtful take on it. I always thought this episode was fine, imo it's plenty of fun, and if not one of the better HB eps still a good one that's worth more than a lot of the hate it gets. I've got 30 mins of the ep left to watch but I wanted to type up my thoughts now, because hearing your mostly-positive comments has me all energized and I've never had a space to express my thoughts about this ep. I'm SO GLAD you brought up the gender stuff in your interpretations because that's also been a big thing for me with this ep, one way of engaging with it that I think makes it more interesting. I do think it means something that Moxxie is the one who came up with this plan, their disguises, personas, etc. and chose to play the part of the Popular Girl, leans into it so heavily, and reacts so intensely to the rejection he receives. I wrote a big long analysis of my own thoughts a while ago, but a very condensed version: Moxxie is often ridiculed or insulted for not being "man enough" in a lot of ways down in Hell, best seen in the Harvest Moon episode but also most recently in the ep we meet his dad. I like to interpret his behavior here as trying to succeed within the persona of another gender, where a lot of his traits might be more well-received... if only he'd leaned into behaving like his real self, as you pointed out. But instead his theatrical side was interested in flawlessly playing a part, trying to be a Perfect Ideal of a Girl, which as you mentioned, makes him come off super inauthentic. The idea of being not enough, of being a failure - no matter his gender presentation - being part of why it makes him so upset, is really compelling to me. The other part of this with Millie is, I think, less about her wanting to play in the space of manhood/masculinity rather than the fact that she's being put into a context where her natural talents and abilities (which are often read/coded as being more masculine traits) earn her praise. In Hell, she's from a large family in the Wrath Ring, where excelling in violence isn't exceptional, it's expected. Her parents even reprimand her for not being BETTER at fighting/killing Striker. She gets praised by Blitz for her work in I.M.P., but she is one of three violent imps who are all pretty good at their job. She's not special there either. But here, in the human world and presenting as a boy, her athleticism and various other skills earn her status and love. It's also in a way not related to violence or killing, and while we all know Millie enjoys that stuff well enough - she certainly has no issues with it - I think it's nice for her to realize she can be herself and excel at other things AND be appreciated for it. It's interesting to think that if Moxxie had assigned them each a role that aligns with their usual gender identities, they BOTH might've had a bad time at camp. I see a lot of complaints from folks that this episode "should've been a Millie episode" or "focuses too much on Moxxie, even when it's meant to be about Millie", but to an extent I think that's kind of the point. Millie enjoying the spotlight and feeling of being special isn't just diagetic, it works on a meta level too: she's been the character least focused on of all 4 I.M.P. members. Now we learn that's something she has feelings about, that she does NEED more attention and validation, that she WANTS to feel special and important. And Viv has mentioned she does want to start giving Millie a bit more attention now that she's gotten to know this character better; to me, this ep is the first example of such an effort. Also, while I can sympathize somewhat with people feeling the A and B plots here aren't suited to each other, I disagree if only because some of the main arguments I've seen are "the Blitz and Barbie stuff should've been the A plot" or "this ep should've been ABOUT Barbie." I think that's just not possible and wouldn't have made for a good episode. If Blitz' search was the A plot, it could've been entertaining enough possibly, but it would've just been him running around looking for this character we know nothing about. And in either case, I don't think the episode having Barbie as a major focus would ever work, and that's because BARBIE wouldn't want to be the focus. The entire point of her appearance here is so we understand she Does Not Want To Talk To Blitz. If we'd met Barbie 5 minutes into this episode, she still would've been gone within the next 5, because she doesn't want to be in Blitz' life right now. Barbie has a bit of a fanbase of her own, but I do think a lot of her character - from what we can glean in just this one appearance - gets totally overlooked by people. I understand wanting to see more of her, but that couldn't have happened in an episode like this, and that's the POINT. Anyways, longass comment but again, I've been really excited for this one and figured I'd share my thoughts. I've really been enjoying your HB series as an artist and huge animation fan. It's always really gratifying to see you notice and appreciate the smaller things in each ep, especially because you're someone who does understand just how much work goes into stuff like this. HB gets a lot of hate and dismissed for a lot of reasons, which I'll always think is a horrible shame because a lot of people obviously put their heart and souls into this project; it means a lot to plenty of people, and I think viewers can often forget that. Super excited to see more from you soon! Thanks so much for the videos!
People have been so over-critical of this one, I've been suspecting Skyen might end up liking it. lmao The worst episode of Helluva Boss is still a pretty banger episode.
Because Unhappy Campers killed my grandma, ok????
I feel the barbie subplot, above all else, exemplifies how Blitzo just IGNORES reality in favour what he wants to believe. He'll beleive stolas doesn't love him, he'll beleive that Barbie wants to see him, beleive that he's not the problem in his relationships, because he cannot handle things that go against what's more convenient to him.
I think one of the reasons people disliked this episode is because they really wanted a Millie-focused episode. This is the closest we got, and it's still much more focused on Moxxie, when he already has a few episodes heavily focused on him.
Fortunately it looks like the episode coming out in October will be a bit more Millie-heavy.
Personally I can't wait for some more Loona action for... reasons.
Personally i felt like the ONE time we finally got to see Moxxie and Millie get into an argument was over something really goofy. The concept isn't silly, but the way it's executed made me not wanna take it seriously when it seems the show wanted it to be serious, and it was disappointing.
DING DING DING right on the money
Also to me it felt out of character for Millie. I probably could have bought it if it was built up better but seemed to come out of nowhere. Her feeling insecure was weird to me because people praise her quite often. Moxxie loves her to bits, Blitz has nothing but compliments for her skills as a fighter, her parents obviously love her and even when they are disapproving of her it is a disappointed "you are better than this" not "you suck".
Yeah, I think this is what I dislike the most about the episode. It feels like every time something might be about Millie, it ends up being focusing on Moxie. And then, the second-hand embarrassment humor doesn't really help.
I think the Millie “I’m finally important” complex is more so coming from her always having to make concessions to accommodate Moxxie, especially when you look back at Seeing Stars. She seems to finally feel like she’s being put first and being supported for once rather than being the one supporting everyone else. That’s not explicitly stated anywhere but that’s the vibe I’m getting from that argument.
She also has a ton of siblings and looks to be a middle child in her big family, so that probably plays a part in it as well
Yeah, as someone who has had a neurodivergent partner... I loved 'em to bits of course and they were more than worth the effort, but there was a lot of extra maintenance that went into that relationship and it can be easy to feel like you're still not enough.
On a meta level, the conflict in this episode kind of feels like Millie lamenting how little focus she’s been getting in the show so far, especially with Moxxie trying to make everything about himself to compensate for his lack of self esteem (something we saw especially in episodes like 1-5 and 2-3 where the episodes take away some possible Millie development for the sake of more Moxxie characterization)
In the first Striker episode, we do see Millie's parents being very loving towards her as well as undermining her with their comments. It’s nowhere near as extreme or abusive when compared to other character’s parents, but it is there. Her parents diminish her job, insult the person she chose to marry, scold her for getting taken out by Striker, and while not specifically her parents, she was also the only one banned from the ultra-violent games for being too violent and murder happy. Even in hell where murder and violence are the norm, Millie is considered to be way too much.
So, her loving all this adoration, praise, and validation does make sense to me. Though that could just be me searching for a connection and I obviously wish we had more exploring Millie before this episode.
I hope we get more Millie, but I agree with this. I love her character
I believe it’s only Millie’s mother that undermines her
"He is playing the character he thinks is right for the setting." My autistic masking feels so called out rn, I demand an official apology.
I think the general consensus is that it's not "oh god that episode is terrible, I wish it didn't exist" it's more "out of every episode, this one is the worst."
Honestly, story beat wise this episode is probably not that bad, just average. But I really cannot stand second-hand embarrassment humor, it kills me inside. I think a lot of the fandom feels the same way, which is why this one is considered the worst episode of season 2, on top of it just not living up to the quality of the second part of season 2.
Yeah same ..ı couldnt watch it fully From second hand embrassement ..:'))
I do think that a lot of the hate is just that second-hand embarrassment is a very niche type of humor. I personally couldn't endure it myself, even if i could recognise that it didn't make the episode bad in itself.
Otherwise i think it mostly suffer from Blitz obsession with his sister being introduced without much foreshadowing and Barbie herself should have been included in the MnM plot in some way so the two halves of the story feels more connected ,like if Moxie was trying to impress her instead of some random teens. Could also have Millie bond with her over their frustration with their "sibling" before the reveal that her brother is Blitz0
@@blackbloom8552 that, and I wonder if it also has to do with hiatus brain. The fandom is waiting for a new episode to drop, and when it does it's a good-to-meh at most, with cringe comedy, and a sister plot that felt out of place and too short, and then they have to wait yet another 2 months before the next episode releases
I am struggling watching this reaction because man, that secondhand embarassment is too much D:
@@blackbloom8552
Well… we *do* see her in the.. barn?.. when they first arrive, so that’s something.
I been transgender around 3 months and what you said at 33:21 were some words i didn't realize i needed to hear. Thank you
Everyone in Wrath is good at violence. I’m too common and unruly. I ain’t special. I’m just unhinged. My parents are nice but they aren’t impressed by me. People celebrating me for one instead of calling me unhinged felt real nice. -Millie
Holy hell, an episode of Helluva Boss AND and an episode of Skyen watching an episode of Helluva Boss?
It's a good day
What??!!
Omg you're right a new short is out
I think the only criticism i have for 4 and 5 is that the b plots should have been switched. Having the barbie wire stuff along with the stolas kidnapping would have helped with the tone. Then having camp stuff along with the loona stuff would have felt better as both are goofier plotlines.
@TrueHavoc13
i think 4 works because it shows how blitz really doesn't think stolas can be hurt, him dealing with his sister stuff would muddly that a bit more.
Yo that would make so much sense
@@chongwillson972 On the other hand exhibit how blitz prioritizes his failed family relationships more than his current ones and could be a method of exploring that. Him choosing his sister over Stolas is majorly on par for where he is right now and he could still base that decision on his idea that stolas is unable to be hurt.
Honestly, i agree. But i dont think they would have just worked better because of the tone, but also because of the theming of both A and B plots within these episodes... like the Stolas/Striker plot and the Blitz/Barbie plot would both be about people that Blitz cares about, one of which doesnt want him in her life, and the other wants him very much in his life, and Blitz manages to fuck up both ? Those two plots togetehr would have made for a great dramatic episode. The same also goes for the other plots, like pairing up Blitz/Loona and Millie/Moxxie also could go into similar themes, such as relationships and how to properly care for one another, with Blitz/Loona being the father/daughter relationship, and the Millie/Moxxie being the romantic relationship. It would probably be a much more comedic episode as a whole, but i think the themes could have worked really well toegether.
no that doesn't work. the point was the blitz was putting his needs above his sister's, which is what moxxie needed to see to understand how millie got hurt by his own selfishness. they're thematically tied.
Mr skyen... is the third time you teach to me some thing about my self. Please don't stop explaining how I work to my self... it really helps, thank you.
First was about arromantism
Second ADHD
Now people pleasing.
Thank you very much keep up the great job sir.
"WE DON'T HAVE TO SEE IT AGAIN 😢"
"REWIND!!!"
Duality of man
HELLUVA BOSS FANS WHO LOVE SKYENS ANALYSIS RISE UP!!! (And it looks like he didnt hate this episode GOD WE ARE SO BACK!!!!)
Thank you!!! People confuse cringe comedy and bad writing, or they hate because it "ruined" Moxxie, and i don't even think it was cringe, im able to rewatch it just fine. This episode is fine
I think I cringe so much because I knew a girl that branded herself as the popular one and similarly crashed and burned, so not only did I cringe when it happened, I knew it would as soon as Moxxie revealed his persona to us...
One thing about Millie and what is going on with her: while she is the most stable and healthy of the cast, and her family is generally good, I do think she might struggle a bit with her family disapproving of her life choices: they disapproved of her leaving wrath for Imp City, they don't like Moxxie, and she might feel guilty for no longer helping them on the farm
I mostly disliked it for the second-hand embarrassment, which I admit is a me problem. But yeah, it's not terrible lol
I've never gotten why people hate this episode. It's just mediocre. But trust me after this it gets SO GOOD
Well I guess cause the rest are better. I just pissed that moxie is annoying. And the rest of the episode is uninteresting.
I think that's all there is to it honestly, that it's meh compared to everything else
Ikr. Compared to other episodes this one doesn’t stick out but that doesn’t mean it’s bad lol. Also I appreciate Barbie making an appearance so.
In my opinion, it fumbled millie's development here hard. Having her so hung up on external validation doesn't fit what we've seen of her at all.
Plus Moxie ranging from genuinely cringe-inducing to uncharacteristically ungrateful for his wife felt weird too, and Blitz's plotline didn't feel super well explored.
I wouldn't call it awful, but yeah, by far the weakest episode of season 2.
It is sooo much cringe
I can't stand this episode, it actively hurts me to watch it.
As someone who liked this episode since the day it dropped I feel so vindicated
So just making sure you know this because I didn't see it mentioned in the discord chat, but the camp counselor is like 18 or 19. In America to be a camp counselor you need to be an adult, so when she calls him a teenager she means that he's like 18 or 19.
I love the cringe in this episode it's so on point with the 2000's. I haven't even seen Camp Rock but can tell this episode was an homage to it.
I don't get why people say Moxie's character was assassinated in this episode, he's always been extra. I like seeing him and Millie have a conflict and resolve it.
I love Millie in this epsidoe.
I think the biggest legitimate gripes about the episode are that the mystery who killed the client was too quick even just for the joke and also that perhaps it would've been better to give Barb more focus for her introduction.
I do think the gags and jokes here work better than in the Hollywood episode, Spring Breakers or Cherubs. The parentheses of the subtitles viciously turning on Moxxine as well is particularly excellent.
Being neurodivergent and not really understanding a lot of 'common knowledge' things I have to admit, listening to you explain your thoughts in great detail or that part about addiction were really interesting. keep doing what you're doing skyen
To all the "this was advertised as a Millie episode" people:
...Except... it wasn't? People *assumed* it would be a Millie ep because we knew that she would get more spotlight in the future and Millie was featured in 2 of the gifs they teased on twitter.
Millie is a central character in this episode and it shows us more about her inner workings, building off of more subtle elements of her background introduced in Harvest Moon Festival.
As far as I can tell, no one ever said anything about it being THE Millie solo episode.
Fans assumed it would be and set themselves up for disapointment.
Yeah same with Barbs, this WASNT advertised as a Barbie Wire episode, all the gifs in the official account are about MnM, people just managed to connect the fact that Barbie was in it based on the storyboards in the Teaser Trailer.
EDIT: Oh we know what the Millie episode is actually! Its called GHOSTFUCKERS and its the next one in line. Brandon confirmed its about Mills and Blitz, kinda how Truth Seekers was about Moxx and Blitz.
I don't have any major beef with this episode - it's fine, but as someone who is completely unaware of what's going on with Helluva Boss until I see the episode turn up on my youtube feed, I was a bit disappointed to see an episode that finally featured Millie so prominently, but still managed to give more of the emotional arc to Moxxie. So I'm not sure the twitter advertising is 100% to blame there.
@@keltzy I mean, yeah, what I'm saying is that the twitter advertisement isn't to blame at all for fans expecting the ep to be something it was never claiming or trying to be.
Tbh, I never really had that complaint about the Moxxie thing myself. To me Millie's reaction to Moxxie always spoke so much louder than anything the episode was doing with Moxxie.
Don't get me wrong, I love Millie! And I desperately want her to get more screentime and attention. I just don't think she was overshadowed here as much as people say, I suppose.
I LOVE the transness/gender-nonconformity/neurodivergence readings of this episode, I feel like people don't appreciate it nearly enough.
re: Millie's conflict with her parents that this episode seems to be calling back to. and I do understand that, frankly, her relationship with parents is SO MUCH healthier than almost all of the cast, so it's hard to feel for Millie in comparison to more messed up parent/child issues. but. the way her parents treat her work ("freelance" isn't "normal" work), her choice to live outside of Wrath, her choice of *husband* is clearly "you have to be THIS, and we won't be outwardly judgy much, but know that we are judging you" parents. it's why quite a lot of people are misjudging emotionally neglected characters (or even people), because, on the surface, it's all normal and hunky dory. but this type of commentary is insidious and can mess you up real hard, and "running away from a family" as an oldest child (which Millie is) is even kind of taboo for certain type of cultures or family traditions. so I feel for her.
I just wish I didn't have a deathly allergic reaction to American education system and councilor led camps! I still haven't been able to watch the referenced Mean Girls because it PAINS ME.
I could not agree with this take more!
I really think you're onto something. Especially after Ghostfuckers and that Sallie May short. I think growing up the eldest in a big family of probably rowdy boys (+ Sal, but even Sal was raised with her as a brother until a point) definitely had an effect on her. Seems like they kinda just dump everything on the oldest kid there & that's not cool.
I'm convinced that like 80% of the hate this episode gets is from the opening scene. Seeing Blitzo scale the hospital, it sets the expectation of "He's going to see Stolas" and when the rug is pulled, I've seen many reactors and comments basically saying that that moment put them in a bad mood for the rest of the episode.
Honestly for me I think the reason this episode didn't land was because the "lesson" feels weird. Like, supposedly the moral is that Moxie needs to be more supportive and validating of Millie and not take his self-esteem issues out on her. But we've *repeatedly* seen him validate her throughout the show. He sings her love ballads at every opportunity. And the show validates how badass she is all the time. Millie *regularly* bails them out of situations. (See Truth Seekers, the episode with Moxie's dad, etc.)
So the premise of the episode is that Moxie's approach to the whole scenario is not working and he's fucking everything up, and rather than learning to relax or find a different approach or learn to accept that his methods just aren't appropriate all the time or anything else that would feel like growth centered around him, the lesson is that he needs to support Millie more and let her bail them out *again*. It doesn't feel like lessons in keeping with what we've seen about the characters thus far. And just makes Moxie look weaker and less self-sufficient, which his character was already somewhat suffering from.
It also feels like a missed opportunity to introduce Blitz's sister and then do almost nothing with her in the episode. She's in basically one scene and we learn very little. And instead we just get a bunch of eye-rolling cringe humor? Felt like a waste.
Granted I agree that Cherubs was still a worse episode.
I just took the millie / moxxie thing as a thing for the audience like "Here is how a disagreement usually goes when you're in a good relationship". Then you see Blitz and Stolas struggle in comparison. Same for seeing how healthy Fizz and Ozzie are in comparison too. Even healthy relationships have hiccups like this. Also Millie just wanted to feel cool about something that wasn't related to how brutal she is in combat. She explained it quite clearly yet folks keep not clicking
35:05 Reference to the shark from episode 5 in season 1 that just wouldn’t leave Moxxie alone lol
45:19 I think from millie’s family there are the interactions with her family about her job and with her sister where I got the feeling millie felt a little inferior. That was how I read into it but idk
You know, I feel like an episode highlighting how Millie might've felt overlooked by her parents would fit really well? Because it's been established both in the background of S1EP5 and in the first Helluva short, that she has a LOT of brothers. It would make sense if she felt like she wasn't really valued, or straight up felt neglected by her parents (if the implications in the short are anything to go by i.e; "but the boys are grown now").
It then would also make sense why she tends to neglect herself (even to the point that the show does), and that she endures when her husband is being selfish; her parents have taught her that she needs to be there to offer support for her people - both because she's a woman and it's expected of women to be support and not the lead, but also because she had to be there to support them when her brothers were younger.
it's such a treat to get one of these helluva reactions almost every 3 days, I'm just so happy, holy damn
LETS GO EVERYONE AFTER THIS ITS ONLY PEAK EPISODES + "JUST LOOK MY WAY" AND "HELL’S BELLES" WHICH ARE ALSO PEAK 🗣️
Edit: Ok episode 6 and 8 can be argued about if they’re actually "peak" but oh my FUCKING GOD episode 7 and 9…i can’t wait for Skyen to watch them
I called it, this episode isn’t actually bad and it gets way too much bashing and nitpicking for just being an okay episode
It also probably just has to do with the fact it comes right before some of the best episodes in the series.
@@AndrewSmith-nj8zh Nah the secondhand embarrassment is the biggest complaint tbh
missed this one because I fell asleep during the discord stream, and now I am excited to see how much Skyen pokes around this episode ❤
I have been waiting _so long_ for someone else to articulate the trauma and insight into Millie that I saw when I watched this episode.
People gloss over it because "Moxxie cringe", but ever since I saw TB analyze Hazbin I have been waiting to see his analysis of this episode, because I figured if anyone else would see it, it would be TB.
It... It feels really good to know that I wasn't crazy.
Edit: TB needs to rewatch the episode with Millie's parents, because he's second-guessing himself
In addition to the cringe, a lot of fans spent a lot of energy between this episode and the previous one writing and consuming fanworks where Blitz shows up in Stolas' hospital room and they get the kind of emotional connection that we realistically probably won't see before the Christmas episode at the earliest. Seeing him break into a hospital room and it's not for Stolas? Stolas doesn't even show up? That made a lot of shippers extremely disappointed.
In retrospect, of course, it would have been much, much too soon for Blitz to show that kind of emotional vulnerability to Stolas. It would have been wildly out of character, but it's hard to not be impatient when you're waiting for new episodes and so many fanfics already start out with them having an established emotional relationship.
Second hand embarrasment is really hard to watch
But honestly your review has made me appreciate it a lot more
I think people didn’t like this episode because it poked holes into the previously infallible M&M ship, which stands in stark contrast to the messiness that Blitz and Stolas experience. It’s supposed to show that sometimes a reevaluation of boundaries in a relationship can be a good thing
I just hate the cringe comedy it makes my skin crawl
I mean that could be it for some people? I just hate it because it feels mostly like a filler and very random, is not that bad but comparing it to the rest of the episodes it kinda makes it the worst, same with the cherubs episode in the first season
It's mostly because of moxxie being extremely overly preformative. His method acting was grating, and a bit too much over the top. Flawed relationships are interesting and realistic. The M&M dynamic is stronger for this hiccup
its not that their relationship is infallible, see s2 ep2, but this seems like they were going out of their way to force problems in their relationship for the sake of the episode that did not seem in character for either.
I hated it because it is so cringe I actively can't watch it in one sitting.
I need sooo many breaks to get thorugh it.
you just shed a whole new light on this episode for me
so i was thinking about the millie/family thing with her wanting people proud of her and i remembered
the family clearly love her but there first few comments on the group arriving was to dismiss millies work as "working for free" and she had to explain its freelance not free
also not letting her take part in the games due to apparent body count when its clear the sister also has one so why was she not banned
its certainly not as overt as the trio of bad dads in the show its that more subtle little things that show that even if they love her theres little things that they dont approve of
Don't forget the amount of crap they give Moxxie; that's gonna effect her, too! He's the love of Millie's life, of course that'd hurt her.
an episode which i usually skip during my rewatches of the show and like with many in your chat, you managed to make me see it in a new light. thankful for you!
46:00 Millie in episode 1 said that she loves Moxxie because he has a good heart. This is part of the arc. Moxxie himself said in episode 3 of this season that he doesn't deserve woman like Millie. Maybe something will be connected with Moxxie’s goodness in the flashback, for example how he and Millie started dating. Millie thought that Moxxie would behave badly like everyone in hell or cruelly like everyone in the Wrath Ring, but on the contrary, he did something good, so she fell in love with him. But of course Moxxie doesn’t accept this and considers himself unworthy of Millie and this will be a plot point in the future.
The flashback will not be shown until this plot point becomes important. Moxxie's good heart
This fanbase has a lot of issues with exploration of tropes through unpleasant means, everyone reacted with vitriol to Striker not being a complete badass the same way as Millie and Moxxie having completely normal couple issues when they're commonly portrayed as relationship goals
From what i’ve heard, people’s main problems with this episode are how Moxxie’s character was "killed" (which i don’t agree with) and how the plot of Blitzø’s sister felt forced into the episode (which i do agree with)
I personally think that the way Moxxie’s character acted in this episode felt believable as a Moxxie thing to do, although i understand why people are so annoyed at the way they wrote him in this episode because he has never acted quite like this in the past, i just think that they should have given him more "jerk" moments in previous episodes to not make his attitude in this episode feel like such a huge lead from how he usually acts.
And as for the Barbie plot, i just thing that there should have been more buildup to it and it would have felt more natural or it should have been it’s own story episode.
People who say it killed Moxxie's character didnt pay attention bc Moxx has always been like this, he's a little shit (affectionate) who can be self centered and petty, we've known this
A big part of the issue is that the episode was advertise with her but she only appears at the end and doesnt really relate to everything else going on. She should have been mroe tied into the MnM so the reveal that she was Barbie wire would have had more impact.
Mox feels so disconnected from his actual character in this ep, he aligns more with his Pilot self but i just dont know, it just feels weird how they make him such a dickhead and how they kinda pull Millie's insecurities out of nowhere considering how she has reacted to other characters critizicing her in the past, I think Millie's insecurities and Moxxie's dickhead actitude are perfectly valid aspects to have in their character but i feel there was no build up to either of those aspects
I honestly just want Mox to get a win and be competent for once, but at this point I shouldn't expect it.
I agree. So the two problems I have with the whole tone in this episode:
1) Wy is Blitzo searching for out of the sudden? Because he doesn't seem to search before that. I miss the "reason" behind Blitzo's actions.
2) Barbie Wire. We saw a poster in season 1 titled "The amazing imp twins". It was in the background and only for seconds. But then she seems forgotten by the team. If the team would sneak more of her in the last episodes this episode didn't much feel random. It would then make sense that Bitzo is searching for her - again if he has a reason to find her.
I don't think Moxxie's character was killed. It's actually character development. And to see how he would take a hit it's actually true to his personality. Moxxie likes things in certain order and likes to play by the "rules". Also he likes to be liked - remember he was only kid and probably hadn't much people in his age to play with. And of course he is overly dramatic hence to his musical theater hobby.
1:06:17 White marks on their skin for imps is actually scar tissue. So if it isn't their horns or hair then white on an imp means they've been injured in the past. In Barbie's case, it certainly does seem to be deliberate which would indicate it was some form of tattooing (or possibly an attempt to disguise previous signs of self-harm), which definitely does separate it from the random splotches you normally see like on Blitz's face.
this is a spoiler, lets try not to spoil him
@gearguts7259 It's never explicitly stated in the show, and if these characters had the exact same design ideas but were humans they'd still have the scars with the only difference being it'd be immediately recognizable that that's what they were. Saying this is a spoiler is like saying "Zuko has a scar" is a spoiler for AtLA.
@@reperfan4 Next episode shows it and Skyen has asked that if theres anything lore/worldbuilding explained in the show itself to please dont tell him
Oh boy, now I can't wait for TBSkyen to react to the next episodes
Im sure Viv is watching this with a smile, your reviews are very well thought through, and really well articulated. I love the way to geek out on the cool stuff nobody else notices
Yeah, I think it’s just because so many people who relate to Moxxie don’t like seeing this part of themselves in him, so they call it bad character writing instead.
exactlyyy
oh my god SO MUCH THIS!!!
I think it is just bad writing. I mean, the writing for Moxxie is just so unfocused this episode. Moxxie both wants to get the job done and impress Blitz, but he also doesn’t care at all about the job and just wants to be popular with a bunch of human children for no reason.
Moxxie and Millie can have fights, but they only fought because Moxxie wants to be popular for no reason which means the fight happened for no reason.
The whole episode just felt kinda random and that doesn’t really work when you want to have emotional moments.
For me it's the opposite: I see myself a bit in Moxxie and wish they explored it with better storytelling. Why do they care what a bunch of human kids think? This arch could have been more effective and meaningful if they were trying to impress other adults.
@@a.t.9197 Right?
Maybe Moxxie never got to have a childhood because of his dad and this is his chance to finally get to experience it.
Maybe Loona says something to him at the beginning of the episode about how he’s not good enough for Millie and he’s convinced himself that he needs to beat her at these camp games to prove himself.
Just give us something!
God, it’s so good to see a nuanced review of Helluva Boss after spending so much time watching people throw shit at each other about it on Tumblr.
Honestly, thank you so much Skyen for that part about trans validation. I think I really needed to hear that today.
I came here to watch a funny man say funny things and watch the funny imp show.
I did not expect to be called out on my hypervigilant trauma fawning behavior goddammit xD
(But I do appreciate it, thank you Skyen)
39:34 Very well-put about being a people pleaser
"...snuck into someone's house and killed their children!" I was that children.
I can't handle cringe at all, so running into an episode centered on it this far into a series turned this into an episode i could barely watch, so it's easily my least favorite episode if probably not the actual worst episode
So many people can’t handle cringe so I think that is a big reason why people hate this episode they hate the character Moxie is playing and the cringe and thus hate everything about the episode
To be honest, I feel like some fans aren't really letting the creators just have fun episodes sometimes. Maybe this is too much of me having grown up with cable television with lots of filler, but not every episode needs to be some masterpiece and I don't think this show was initially intended to be this deep going into it. We've not even finished a second season yet. I think this show is allowed to have an okay filler episode or two.
"filler" as a term has been bastardized to the point where ppl use it on character exploration epiaodes like these, when it was never meant for it.
Filler is an anime tern that talks about the episodes that had to be created because the anime got up to date with the Manga, so every story AND characterization runs to a halt for a batch of episodes while they wait.
Exploring a character in a more low-stakes scenario is not filller bc theres character development in it, something that filler episodes are not allowed to do bc what they may or not learn may conflict with the manga
@@gearguts7259 I do agree that this episode does serve some purpose in characterization for *both* Moxxie and Millie. I just meant in terms of episodes that don't serve the overarching plot that's mainly about Blitzø and his relationships with others. I don't exactly know a convenient word for it, so I just went with filler even though I agree it's not *really* filler in the technical sense. Every single episode and short in this series has some degree of characterization going on, so there hasn't been any meaningless episodes so far in that sense. Though that does bring me back to the original point which is that I think some fans are taking this show way too seriously and not letting the creators just have fun with it.
@@Kimmie6772 Oh no no Im agreeing with you Im just clarifying that a lot of hate for "filler episodes" are like, bc the term has been switched so it means different stuff for different folks!
During the intro my brain went to
"They say this episode sucks so hard that nobody can get through it without climaxing"
..... I think I've been watching this show to much xD!
title is cracking me up lol
The second-hand embarrassment with the MnM stuff is what makes those parts pretty much unwatchable for me. But me feeling cringe over them doesn’t mean it’s BAD.
Also with Millie’s issue this episode… way back in Harvest Moon Festival, her parents were really critical of her. She’s also the oldest of 5 kids, and presumably had at least a little bit of parentification growing up (helping out with her brothers and the ranch). So there’s a bit of her getting lost and taken for granted as the support. And while she does support Mox a lot, he also does spend a fair amount of time seeing HER and focusing on her (such as all the effort he put into planning their anniversary to make it special for her).
Also in Barb’s defense, Jimmy is 18 or 19. So that tiny window of being both a teenager and an adult… (This was confirmed in a con panel, so that issue of them worldbuilding/confirming things outside the show rearing its head again…)
Also the scars X-ing out her forehead tattoo… That’s there, along with the other aesthetic scars, in the poster of her and Blitzø in the IMP conference room. And those were left intentionally- a version of the poster shows up in the pilot with their mom(?) and Blitzø has his scars in the pilot version too. But they removed Tilla (turning it from Imp Siblings to Imp Twins in the title) and they removed Blitzø’s scars… (And none of this is spoilers-just pointing out what’s been in the background in the pilot and a good time to see the poster is in CHERUB.)
This is just my theory based on how I felt. The episode started in a hospital in Sloth and I got so excited that Blitzo was breacking in to see Stolas, just for it to poll a 180 on me and be Barbie that Blitzo was looking for. I could not recover for that disappointment.
I think people would have enjoied it more if it came before western vibes tbh
People also scream character assassination, but I don't see it tbh.
On repeats, after I got my Stolitz countinuation, I actually started to really like this episode more and more. But yeah, the original dissapointment ruined the first watch. And I started Helluva boss this year. Can't imagine the dissapointment people had when they had to wait months for the next episode
Glad to see you react to the episodes so quickly, exceited to see your reaction to the rest of the season, imo the next 4 episodes are the peak of the show so far.
THIS IS WHAT IM SAYING - I actually love this episode? “You Got The Power” was stuck in my head for days! I get that people didn’t like the Millie placation they were being fed, but I love M&M in general, so I didn’t mind. Plus we got to meet Barbie!! ❤
You Got The Power and Crashing a Notherfuckin Wedding are the most underrated jams in the show
You Got The Power is a bop. I really enjoy the song about how cool Millie's male persona is as well.
@gearguts7259 I never enjoyed the latter. Mostly because I just can't properly hear most of the lyrics, the insturmental really overpowers it.
@@gokbay3057Fingers crossed they’ll put the music on Spotify one day so we can have them without the sound effects and dialogue - I still want a full version of Vacay 2 Bonetown
I dont think its the worst episode, its just boring and annoying for most of it, and since hb episodes take a lit of time to be released it stings with people more when the episode is on the lower end
It is a perfectly fine episode, the only reason why people seem to hate it, is because cringe comedy is very hard to get right and people nowadays often think cringe automatically means bad. Which isnt the case.
Oh my god finally someone else who likes this episode!!!
watching this one as I get the notification for the new short story is like actual physical torture, I'll still finish this one first because these are a highlight of my week.
About the white marks on Barb, since white on imps are scars, I've always thought that for barb it was self-harm scars. I've been trought that and still am and for me those really looks like cuts that she would of made herself. I mean what else could of made these inconsistent and also "X" shape marks. Also her being an addict, maybe drugs wasn't the only thing she was addicted to since self-harm is a form of addiction and an effective way to transform your mental pain into a physical one. Can be a way to stop thinking and put you in a different headspace wich is also what drugs do, make you forget for a little while.
That's my read on her character anyway.
I guess what ticked me off at first was that in past episodes of season one Moxxie would criticize other characters for not taking missions seriously. Then in this episode, he draws out the mission for his own fantasy. Moxxie is my fav character, and his insecurities are part of what makes him a good character, but here he was the punching bag of the episode, and didn’t actually make up for his actions because he didn’t finish the job himself. I also didn’t like that we didn’t really learn anything new about Millie. We already knew she was strong and athletic. I wish the two of them caught the guy right away, but stayed because Moxxie wanted to investigate the drug stuff. Which would lead them to Barb. Maybe that wouldn’t make it better. Just an idea.
when was he criticizing anyone on a mission?
@@KaterynaM_UAMainly with Blitzo. During Spring Broken and Truth Seekers
This is aligned with moxie's character. But this is very much a degression of his character.
He sees the writing on the wall. And doubles down. Not once. Not twice but three times, in day 1. Nevermind the whole week. It's forced. Sure Moxie has Low EQ, but has shown a level of logic and reason. That should be able to tell something is wrong, something isn't working. It's such an assassination of his character, turning up his character flaw by a factor of x5
And for what? For Mille to have an Accessory complex? When this is the only legit time it would be moxie's fault... A scenario is already out of character? It's so unnatural that none of it feels earned or warrented
I cringe so hard at poor Moxxie but at the same time it's funny, and I feel for the poor guy. Baby boy you've got to relax a bit
I don't think this episode bothers me like it bothers a lot of people, but I do remember seeing what I felt were some valid criticisms. I've seen some say that it feels like the show is frequently rehashing Moxxie's insecurity and need to prove himself. And while I can see an argument that insecurity like that would take some time to overcome, and it's not entirely unbelievable that it would come up more than once, I also understand fans being frustrated at so many episodes focusing on Moxxie's insecurity when we can't get even one Millie-centric episode that gets into her inner thoughts and feelings (to the point that even the episodes about Millie's family and Moxxie and Miilie's mutual ex are about Moxxie and not her). Millie's feelings finally got a bit more spotlight here, but like Skyen pointed out, we still don't really get a sense of her past and inner motivations like we do with Moxxie. I can also see how the interaction between Moxxie and Blitz in this episode kind of cheapens the moment they shared in Truth Seekers and makes it feel like they're back at square one.
You remember the fire card for seeing star ? Remember it for the next episode.
I wish this episode was more like that episode in the Harley Quinn animated series, season 2 I believe, where the cast infiltrates riddler’s college pretending to be students and clay face takes the form of a girl and turns into the most popular person in the school. While the rest of the team is trying to figure out the mystery, clay face is thriving in the school life and gets WAY into his character, but he’s actually good at it! He is extremely good at fitting in while being hilarious and helpful to the investigation by getting intel from students. I wish in this episode Moxxie was good at fitting in, so instead of cringe comedy we have situational comedy and him killing it while cross dressing. I think that’s what most people wanted when we got a sneak peek of this episode. If Mox thrived then we could actually get some focus on Millie and her development, instead of another episode about Moxxie’s insecurities.
35:36 and heres why people hate this episode the "character assissnation" of Moxxie here. I don't get why people think this ruins his character given what we saw his childhood was like.
I skipped most of the M & M drama to get to Barbie Wire.
Quick thing, the description still has the old episode link.
Love the video as always! ❤
Honestly. I think us Danes/Scandinavians have a leg up when it comes to cringe comedy considering how many of us survived watching "Klovn"
I honestly love the cringe comedy, it is the perfect amount of over the top without making me hate myself for watching it like the afforementioned danish hellshow "Klovn" (Which translates to Clown for those of you curious)
Finally! VALIDATION that it is a well done animation, regardless of the script, content or humor. At its base the quality of the animation is good from an professional standpoint
Your analysis made me actually appreciate this episode
Watching chat freak out over the cringe parts is funnier than the actually episode
Most of the time when i see people that say that this is there modt disliked episode it has to do with the cringe humor. For me personally despite the plot not being the best I still find it enjoyable, even with the cringe humor lol
As a trans person your view on this having gender presentation and stuff wow
I was also overthinking alot about the fact of moxxie relationship with being so neuro divergent coding and also having this stuff with "being femenine"
I think coming back to this episode, it's nowhere near as bad as it made me feel when it first came out. You mentioned a lot of the big things that still don't sit right with me, like Millie's emotional conflict just not really feeling established enough to have weight and the cringe comedy, but the thing that bothered me more in terms of "cringe" is just how immature Moxxy felt. Like, you hit on all of the details about his internalized insecurities and emotional baggage, but even with that, he was just unbearable to watch and so shitty toward Millie in a way that really contradicted so much of his established character. I also think some of the backlash also came down to the experience of getting this dropped after waiting for a new episode. Personally, I was ready and excited to see more of Millie's character and this being the first real attempt to address her underdevelopment felt... bad, especially with all of the extra emphasis being put on Moxxy's issues. It was also an abrupt pivot from where last episode left off, so it also just didn't really advance the Stolas plotline I was hoping to see as well. All of that just made the issues with this episode stand out more than others.
Thanks for another great Reaction!
As for the Millie situation and reasoning for her need for Validation, I would argue that it's not even that. Personally I think that Millie just being from the big countryside family with lots of siblings, rarely had an opportunity to be praised as an individual or even feel like one. Not necessarily due to Parental neglect or intention but just as an unfortunate side effect that large families often have. I would even prefer that reasoning as having a broody and dark past for every character is not only unrealistic and boring, but also makes it harder to relate to. Most of us had what would be considered a normal upbringing, yet many of us still manage to feel like crap all the time, and get extremely happy for any praise or acknowledgment. Obviously I'm speaking with limiting my knowledge up to this episode, so I'm not saying that it will or won't be explored later, and it's just a personal opinion.
Anyways thanks again for awesome reaction and not bending your opinion to outside pressure. I may often have a different opinion or take then you, but I always appreciate someone who comes up with his own conclusions, and it's always more interesting to see different thought process.
PS Don't also let people swing your opinion the other way, and overhype you on something, it's a separate but very similar problem. Although watching your past reactions I believe that you won't :).
OMG I was so drunk the night of the recording and ended up falling asleep 15 min into the recorning, can't wait to finally watch it!
to be fair for the circus, showing both blitz and stolas childhood seperate before going together could be really aquward pacing wize
Funny enough I see this as season 2 finally getting a handle on its tone consistency from the moment to moment of episodes. The last two struggled so much to with their tone that having an even episode was honestly a breath of fresh air.
Whoever called that Skyen would hate the previous one and like this one was totally right 😂
This was reported as the worst episode?
Sense when did it pass Seeing Stars's reputation?
Going to be completly honest, I always thought this one was the most forgetable, along S2 E4, which is sad becasue both of them have some good stuff that still builds one what was already established pretty well.
To sum up why people hate this episode myself included in 3 words "Moxxie is insufferable"
this felt like a body snatcher took Moxxie's form and tried to ruin their marriage
Really love these kind of videos that i cant really seem to find anywhere else. if ever find the time id also suggest castlevania. id love to see you analyisis a show like that. its very similar to helluva as in the characters are very complex and a lot can be analized about them. the animation is also pretty stellar. doesent really matter, it was just a cool thought i had. love ur stuff and hope to see more in the future
The most common issue I saw people take with it was that it was seen as character assassination of Moxxie, in that what he's doing is so over the top 'dumb' that it makes him look terrible, meanwhile Millies storyline is sort of half-baked and not really supported by other bits of the story.
Add to that the over the top cringe elements (and by god the Moxxine parts are hard to watch) and you start to see where it's all coming from.
I may be wrong but I think it's less about gender and more about the attention/validation. Millie does have a lot of siblings
Edit: chat said it better than I could: eldest child syndrome
I have been SO excited to see your critique of this episode, because I've been DYING for an actually nuanced and thoughtful take on it. I always thought this episode was fine, imo it's plenty of fun, and if not one of the better HB eps still a good one that's worth more than a lot of the hate it gets. I've got 30 mins of the ep left to watch but I wanted to type up my thoughts now, because hearing your mostly-positive comments has me all energized and I've never had a space to express my thoughts about this ep.
I'm SO GLAD you brought up the gender stuff in your interpretations because that's also been a big thing for me with this ep, one way of engaging with it that I think makes it more interesting. I do think it means something that Moxxie is the one who came up with this plan, their disguises, personas, etc. and chose to play the part of the Popular Girl, leans into it so heavily, and reacts so intensely to the rejection he receives. I wrote a big long analysis of my own thoughts a while ago, but a very condensed version: Moxxie is often ridiculed or insulted for not being "man enough" in a lot of ways down in Hell, best seen in the Harvest Moon episode but also most recently in the ep we meet his dad. I like to interpret his behavior here as trying to succeed within the persona of another gender, where a lot of his traits might be more well-received... if only he'd leaned into behaving like his real self, as you pointed out. But instead his theatrical side was interested in flawlessly playing a part, trying to be a Perfect Ideal of a Girl, which as you mentioned, makes him come off super inauthentic. The idea of being not enough, of being a failure - no matter his gender presentation - being part of why it makes him so upset, is really compelling to me.
The other part of this with Millie is, I think, less about her wanting to play in the space of manhood/masculinity rather than the fact that she's being put into a context where her natural talents and abilities (which are often read/coded as being more masculine traits) earn her praise. In Hell, she's from a large family in the Wrath Ring, where excelling in violence isn't exceptional, it's expected. Her parents even reprimand her for not being BETTER at fighting/killing Striker. She gets praised by Blitz for her work in I.M.P., but she is one of three violent imps who are all pretty good at their job. She's not special there either. But here, in the human world and presenting as a boy, her athleticism and various other skills earn her status and love. It's also in a way not related to violence or killing, and while we all know Millie enjoys that stuff well enough - she certainly has no issues with it - I think it's nice for her to realize she can be herself and excel at other things AND be appreciated for it.
It's interesting to think that if Moxxie had assigned them each a role that aligns with their usual gender identities, they BOTH might've had a bad time at camp.
I see a lot of complaints from folks that this episode "should've been a Millie episode" or "focuses too much on Moxxie, even when it's meant to be about Millie", but to an extent I think that's kind of the point. Millie enjoying the spotlight and feeling of being special isn't just diagetic, it works on a meta level too: she's been the character least focused on of all 4 I.M.P. members. Now we learn that's something she has feelings about, that she does NEED more attention and validation, that she WANTS to feel special and important. And Viv has mentioned she does want to start giving Millie a bit more attention now that she's gotten to know this character better; to me, this ep is the first example of such an effort.
Also, while I can sympathize somewhat with people feeling the A and B plots here aren't suited to each other, I disagree if only because some of the main arguments I've seen are "the Blitz and Barbie stuff should've been the A plot" or "this ep should've been ABOUT Barbie." I think that's just not possible and wouldn't have made for a good episode. If Blitz' search was the A plot, it could've been entertaining enough possibly, but it would've just been him running around looking for this character we know nothing about. And in either case, I don't think the episode having Barbie as a major focus would ever work, and that's because BARBIE wouldn't want to be the focus. The entire point of her appearance here is so we understand she Does Not Want To Talk To Blitz. If we'd met Barbie 5 minutes into this episode, she still would've been gone within the next 5, because she doesn't want to be in Blitz' life right now. Barbie has a bit of a fanbase of her own, but I do think a lot of her character - from what we can glean in just this one appearance - gets totally overlooked by people. I understand wanting to see more of her, but that couldn't have happened in an episode like this, and that's the POINT.
Anyways, longass comment but again, I've been really excited for this one and figured I'd share my thoughts. I've really been enjoying your HB series as an artist and huge animation fan. It's always really gratifying to see you notice and appreciate the smaller things in each ep, especially because you're someone who does understand just how much work goes into stuff like this. HB gets a lot of hate and dismissed for a lot of reasons, which I'll always think is a horrible shame because a lot of people obviously put their heart and souls into this project; it means a lot to plenty of people, and I think viewers can often forget that. Super excited to see more from you soon! Thanks so much for the videos!
Let’s go!!!! I love this man and his analyses far too much.
The review of this episode is suspiciously short, what happened to real Skyen and where have you hidden him???
Just wait for the next one, he'll be back.. 🫢
@@zmainly
If the next one isn’t at least three hours, I’m gonna get *really* suspicious.
People have been so over-critical of this one, I've been suspecting Skyen might end up liking it. lmao The worst episode of Helluva Boss is still a pretty banger episode.