Back When I was a crew chief on an old six cylinder Asphalt Modified, Slant Six Chrysler, We made our own intake by using 2x2 square tubing about two feet long with an aftermarket 4bbl intake bolted to that. my goodness, tons of torque! Also I made a custom 904 push button shifted trans with no torque converter, It had a ball valve controlling the trans pump pressure. Super low inertia for lightening quick acceleration off the turns!
Caterpillar forklifts used the same idea on their transmissions, when the "clutch" was depressed oil pressure was bled progressively back into the transmission. They still had a torque converter though.
@@richardholdener1727 Alfa Romeo and Lancia had variable induction in their road cars in the 90's, although they had only two different runner lenghts.
Some 2-strokes did the same with their exhausts to change the tuned-length of the expansion chambers. Some jet skis even had variable water injection in the exhaust to change the temperature, which changed the local speed of sound (!!) inside the pipes to alter the powerband.
I think it was the “High And Mighty” Ramchargers of the early 1960’s used radiator hose as the intake runners with a huge metal box as the plenum. Some pictures the runners would be so long the carbs were almost above the roofline. Those cars had some cartoonish exhaust too.
The Ramchargers (all young Chrysler engineers, like Tom Hoover) basically invented the tunnel ram, and used this knowledge to design the Sonoramic Commando (lol) long ram intakes, as well as the Max Wedge cross rams.
you are right, and they used hose so they could keep cutting it shorter and shorter until the quarter mile times increased, and they knew what the last best runner length was. They needed that plenum because unless you use a sequesial port injection, every time the intake valve closes, the air/fuel mix runs back up the runner. If there's a shared plenum, the air fuel mix goes to another cylinder. but with individual runners and no shared plenum, the result is a hazy fog of atomized fuel hanging over the top if you've ever seen a mechanical fuel injector setup idle in the pits. Bruce Crower took it a step further, using different length caliopes on his injectors.
@@albertgaspar627 Another reason for the plenum is to keep air speed from siphoning the fuel up and out of the carb while moving foward. Look at early drag cars and Bonneville cars. I almost caught my car on fire while test driving and tuning while on the freeway with no air cleaner and no hood. 🔥😂👎 You should see later header designs, like what Smokey Yunick did. Or, the crazy-cool 180 degree and 360 degree headers. That's the tuning I like to read about.
Mr. Holdener..Thank you for actually listening about testing differing lengths and general tpi mods. I posted on another video with suggestions in regards to this.. The fact that you actually did it, just blows me away... It also shows the wave resonance effects something fierce on that first one...just remember Everything in a tpi system is tunable.
It appears that other resonances, such as plenum volume Helmholz resonance is occurring here. Perhaps attaching the ram tubes in a 180 degree fashion to have equal pulsing in each plenum will provide different or better results. Also connecting the two plenums with a valve will allow different tuning.
Excellent work here. I would have loved to do this experiment back when I taught engine lab back at U of MN. This is a perfect example of the concepts taught in the classic IC engine textbook by Taylor & Taylor decades ago. I'm so glad you chose to show it here. Hardcore fundamental stuff. We all love Engine Masters, but the knowledgeable engine guys like your channel just a bit better.
I saw a rotary with electronic slides that got shorter at higher rpm and were long at idle. The slide length was set to rpm and throttle opening percentage.
This just proves what Mopar knew 60 years ago, when they designed the long ram manifolds for big blocks in big heavy cars, and short runner cross rams for their Super Stock drag cars. No secret, for an old goat like me, lol.
This brings back memories of my old Formula SAE college days. Back then, I thought intakes were all about flow numbers, but then I realized the importance of Heimholtz Resonance on how to tune the intake plenum, runner length and diameter, and radii. Air flow is fluid like and sound waves/resonance affects the flow of the air going into the engine. Think of it this way, if you had a subwoofer up against a draining kitchen sink, the water doesn't flow as fast as with no sound.
@@fokjohnpainkiller Scientific Design of Intake and Exhaust Systems by Phillip H. Smith. Also The Design and Tuning of Competition Engines by the same author. You can get some of the same information from David Vizard's How To Build Horsepower in a less dry format. (This is no exhaustive [no pun intended] list, just a few to get you started. Amazon or your local library would be a resource to try for more.)
Talk about seeing reflected waves in the power curve. Oh and this is exactly why OEM's have sold many intake manifolds with dual length runners. Long for the low end torque, then swaps over to a short runner as the RPM rise. Mostly on 4 and 6 cylinders. Why settle, when you can have both ;)
My V8 Audi S4 has that as well. Even seen three stage/runner length intake manifolds on the older timing belt V8 Audi engines. Pretty sure that the older Lamborghini Murcielago 6.2 liter V12 had a three stage intake manifold too.
That and VVT have completely changed the game. EFI did too, but these things build on that. No wonder modern engines have such a wide powerband and a flat torque curve! If Comp or Isky or Crane were to develop a retrofit VVT system for old-school V8s, sportsman racing and hot rodding would never be the same. And honestly, a simple, rudimentary system could be devised with a variable cam gear, incorporating a clutch or spring with electronic control, based on load data.
I recently watched a similar test with an ITB 4AGE. You could hear when the harmonics were working and when they weren't. He also tested straight, 45* bend, and 90* bend trumpets of a similar length to see if that cost power (it did) as well as different opening styles. All real interesting stuff.
Just gotta love Rich... His Info is always helpful and valuable💪🏾💪🏾💪🏾 what's crazy is I personally know a guy out here in AZ with a 1929 "something car" with 2 long custom intakes that sit on each side of the 350 sbc with edlebrock carbs on top.. I can and will prove it if needed... But great Info Dog
When you think of the engine as an air pump and a complete system, you have to measure from the carb/tb blades all the way to the exhaust exit, wherever that may be (uncorked at least). So the same principles work on headers. Long runner intakes need longer tube headers, short runners need shorter header tubes. One wont work best without the other. I dont quite understand the terms and physics involved, but I understand results.
@@xmo552 I probably should've done that 30 years ago, back when I still read books. Nowadays, if I cant absorb and understand content within 10 minutes, I move on, lol.
ferrari actually has an ajustable intake length on the LaFerrari, that tech is already banned from formula one before they got tu use is, the new gmc 3.0L inline 6 diesel also has variable runner length intakes.
@@ReubenHorner Those flaps changes the swirl/tumble of the air entering the cylinder for lean combustion. Those flaps are removed in high performance engines.
@@julienboucaron9780 the tumble flaps also prevent super knock during high load low rpm situations like from cruising on the highway and having to go up a hill in the highest gear of the transmission. Most of the time my calibrator will have the tumble flaps just stay open from about 1900 rpms to redline. Plus they help with cold start up because the air swirl causes the fuel to mix better.
This was awesome! You should test the working man's mods or the hs budget stuff like throttle body spacers, muffler delete, or change to duals and "cai" (but you did that)!
I like what your doing. This is the only one of your videos that I've seen. The one thing I think you might be missing is test for resonance. I think this is one of the biggest reasons why port polishing works. After all even though it's primary purpose is moving air. When it comes down to it. It is pulsed air. And at those engine speeds the pulses create a standing wave. At resonance that standing wave helps you. Especially if it occurs at the entrance to the port.
Focus first on the exhaust system--get something that really clears out the combustion chamber, since you can't burn that exhaust twice. That in itself will create a "Draw" on the intake, and if you tune that to make torque at what RPM you will run, then the ram effect almost acts like "boost"
Really liked the video, thumbs up! You are probably the 2nd or 3rd person to show a graph instead of the bullshit horse power number in hundreds of videos. btw, there was variable runner length in some engines of the 80's but then it was banned from competition one famous car is the rotary Mazda 787B
Loved every minute of it, is like Lab Time but I don't have to do any of the heavy lifting, just watch and learn. Thanks and post more variable runner length videos with other engines, I love the variety.👌🏻😎👍🏻
I am surprised that you don't have a 3d printer yet. Lots of even hobby printers will push .065 nylon trimmer line that you can find with glass or Aramid fibre. The benefits of having a printed intake is you can have proper runner taper and gives you so much more freedom in packaging.
Richard, congratulations on getting into the camshaft business. Thought, design, build and market an intake manifold and cam combo for LQ9 etc for trucks maximizing torque from 1500 to say 4500. I'll buy the first one!
I like having torque on the lower end for street racing, light to light, took all my smog stuff , larger fuel injectors, chip and tune, larger modified exhaust, cold air intake, on my 1986 Corvette, scary torque monster with the long runner length, don't need high speed dangerous stuff.
Back in the 70’s a buddy of mine made his own sheet metal tunnel ram intake manifold for the 350 Chev in his mid engine sand rail. He used like 1 1/4 or 1 1/2” tubing running up to a square(ish) plenum. It totally didn’t work. The fuel just ponded in the plenum under the carb.
Richard I know it would be a pain but I’d love to see you take the data you just learned and build a variable length manifold that optimize both top and bottom. It would make a great vid!
That was done years ago with a For 250 Cross flow engine. Was quite impressive. It was controlled by small electric motors increasing the runner length up top with the rpm from 3000 rpm onwards. The torque was very impressive
Pretty much what many factory intakes do, but obviously size/space restricted. Would definitely be useful to have both options though. Going road racing, pop on the stacks and run with it. Then putting around, swap em out.
Enjoyed this, as I have put a lot of thought into it in the past. My father used to build custom intakes out of steel for some of his projects. They seemed to get the job done pretty well, but I don't know how he calculated all the dimensions... Probably just by intuition.
Ford actually had a dual runner length manifold on their V6 engines. It was a complex manifold with a trapdoor. By default the engine would be set at the long runners and as soon as the engine crept up in RPM the little trap door would flip to the short runners at high RPM. It wasn't a very reliable system.
Haven't had a chance to watch video yet but here's my observations. I remember perhaps 30 years ago there was these "mini rods" which were 4 cylinder powered tractor pullers who used naturally aspirated 4's and most of them used "long tube" intakes. It makes sense.
Would love to see this performed again with a tapering diameter runners, different shape runners, or a hydroformed running thatr has a surface like a golf ball, just to see if CFM increases... I love the content! Can you do a Volvo Redblock? B230? :)
For engine geeks this is something we've wondered about. How does this apply to a boosted engine? Should the runners/volume stay relatively small while the boost does the work?
Runner length will have a similar effect on the power curve n/a or boosted. short runner high/ long runner low. Boost pressure is just a measure of resistance. It depends on what’s causing the”most” resistance, again its dependent on you combination of parts, as to whats going to change. Runner area matters, the less area in the runner means more velocity for the same mass of air(how big is the straw), which is beneficial at low engine speed, The velocity helps charge the cylinder at low rpm. But this can begin to be restrictive at higher rpm. Think about valve opening time and how that shortens as engine RPM increases. The more RPM increases the less time you have to shove air into the engine. So a short larger runner with a good sized plenum, is what you want for high rpm turbo power. Do you want a easy way to experience this go get a bunch of straws like a coffee straw and something you can suck a milkshake through and play around with blowing different fluids through them, Air is a fluid. Mazdas 787B 4 rotor race car for 1991lemans season had adjustable intake runner lenghs. The only vehicle I’m aware of with the moving intake manifold. Check it out There is no one size fits all answer, but boost pressure is just a measure of resistance in your system at a specified CFM and rpm. Over all air flow is what u wana pay attention to.
Please, some time, play with adding ports between the two plenums. i.e. One connecting the two in the middle, and one connecting the two at the end (which could eventually be open/closed by the ECU at different RPM ranges) i.e. Like Mazda's KL motor (i.e. the V6 used in the mid 90's Ford Probe). Would love to see the gains actually quantified.
Car craft did this test on a bbc with a mech. Fi system. Found that 13" from valve face to air opening of the stack. Made the most for cinder ramming. This was for individual runners. On a 98 honda vfr 800. The do use a two length running intake. The tall stacks would lift out of the shorter ones at about 10000rpm. A very noticeable change from 10000 up to 15,500. This test doesnt take into account the shared plenum or amount of volume a plenum has on the effect. The first graft showed a very erratic graph line. As the runners got shorter...they leveled off. When you get to the dodge magnum dog house intake. You will find ne of the best designs for runner length and volume. Another amazing pc is the wiend dual tunnel ram.
I would really like to see you mess around with an old caddilac 500 motor and do a mild to wild build up on it and then finish it up with a big bang on it
I made a calculation to figure out runner length for intake manifolds and exhaust headers based on cam duration, rpms, and the speed of sound at different temperatures for resonance tuning. This video really makes me want to test it out. Could even get fancy and make it have multiple resonance points at different runner lengths for different rpm points like a tri-y/4-2-1 set of headers.
I keep hoping we get to the point we can 3d print intakes and see all kinds of cool things. a tpi style intake with a straight down short runner in the middle with valves to open would be very cool.
I do not, I don't even know what you'd print with. I've searched and found a few that used pla for prototypes but it would last in a running engine. I don't think home 3d printing is there yet
@@jsomething2 yeah I am a simple man so I would probably just cut out aluminum flanges to weld already pre-cut aluminum pipes plus a collector to. The 3d printers and scanners have supposedly come down in price a lot so I might look into getting one.
Even with you going into detail explaining how runner length affects power, youve still got people leaving those comments that manifolds won't lose 60+ ft lbs of torque just from runner length despite having hard data right in front of them.
Interesting results between the early and late engines. Combo 3 on the early engine gave improved torque and hp across the whole rev range, whereas the late engine it was a compromise everywhere. One was clearly better than the factory manifold, the other was a pure compromise.
@@richardholdener1727 Hi yes it was actually a 3.6 and it was called Opel Omega in Germany,Vauxhall Lotus Carlton in UK,it was a popular joyriders car next to the Xr4 Turbo Ford Sierra
So I remember back in the day my dad rented a Lincoln Mark VIII and it had the 4.6 4 valve and it was pretty damn fast. I also drove one of the OBS Ford Lightnings with a 351 and while it was pretty quick, it wasn't anywhere near as fast as the newer body style Lightning with the 5.4 supercharged. I used to race a modified 2000 Lightning and I had a 1992 Acura Integra with a custom built turbo kit using an old Garrett T3 from a Dodge Daytona 2.2 and it was ALOT of fun. It made 308 whp, but it also didn't weigh much, so it was pretty closely matched to the Lightning on paper. The Lightning came stock with 360 HP, but he had a custom tune, a bigger supercharger pulley, I/H/E, and some slight bolt ons, so he was making around 500 whp, and on the street we were always close, but he would always pull away from me. It was always alot of fun though and we became friends, but I always wanted a Lightning...or a Mark VIII.
I think you just had a million dollar idea. If you can figure out how to do an adjustable runner while you are going through the power band that would be awesome!
I tested a method similar to this on an old motorcycle once. Slid velocity stacks up and down on the top side of carbs only(downdraft style). Long=low end short= top end
What would happen if every other cylinder had an intake runner and header that was turned for bottom end power and the other half of the cyclenders were tuned for top end power? Would you get the best of both worlds? I always wondered the same thing with 2 strokes. What would happen if you took a Banshee and had one cyclender ported for bottom end and put on a bottim end expansion chamber. Then port and pipe the other cyclender as a top end screamer. It would be cool to see.
Back in the 50s, the Crower U-fab was just two long tubes and two intake "adapters", for lack of a better word. The runners were just hoses that you cut to length and clamped down!
Did he hang out with the the ramchagers/work for Chrysler corporation of gmc ?? If so thank you ☺️ to your dad as most of the information that I’ve learned is from older hot roders and dodge explaining how the 1950-70’s max wedge 🧀 engines 30” inch long runners work
That was a forward thinking young man in 1951! Most cars on the road at that time still ran flatheads of one kind or another, the only overheads were the Caddy, Olds, and Hemis, all brand new then. I think on the flatheads, the block itself was such a choke point, the manifold would hardly matter.
If I was to build my own rat rod (someday!), and hood clearance won't be an issue (no hood!), I'd build the longest manifold I could, and the longest-tubed headers. Cuz I'd be doing burnouts and street cruising, not racing. Besides, it's also about what looks cool.
I'd LOVE to see this test on a 4.3 v6 there's only 2 different intakes available, dual plane vortec, or dual plane non vortec. Unless you can find one of the old nascar intakes. I'd be interested in seeing what gains a single plane would have on my little nitrous 4.3
I'm almost done with an EFI-converted Edelbrock #2114 intake on the 4.3 in my '97 s10 and I'm excited to test it out. I don't think the good Vortec heads have any other intake available. They call this intake a "dual plane" but the runners are definitely set up different than a v8 dual plane, it just has the left and right bank divided at the plenum. I'm pretty sure Richard did a video recently using this intake with a later model 4.3, carbureted of course. I'd personally love to see a "big bang" test with EFI and turbo boost on a stock bottom end and see what it can take if tuned properly.
Now DIY something like the Isuzu used on the 6VD1 engine (like 2001 Rodeo). Vacuum solenoid for secondary throttles. even if secondaries stick open, it doesn't run away.
Very cool to see length changes in action. Talking about intakes, I'd love to see the performance difference of running a turbo bare vs using a bellmouth on the inlet. In theory, by running it bare, that hard edge causes a 15-25% flow restriction. I was just watching Finnegan's twin turbo boat videos and it kills me whenever I see a bare turbo intake. You're losing potential power and it's a cheap fix!
I don't think the change in flow is 25%, but I have run radiused entries on turbos and blower-they work well. They add flow best when near the flow limit of the turbo or blower. Finnegan is awesome
@@richardholdener1727 I love the Roadkill guys. Please get them a Dodge Turbo II for their Rampage! As for the intake, it's really surprising. You wouldn't think so but it can actually be that much of a restriction. I'm not an engineer but I work in a building full of them and have learned quite a bit. The hard edge creates turbulence disrupting the flow. A radiused intake gets the closest to laminar flow, 97% efficient. Pipe with a 13 degree taper is 94%. Short pipe, hard edge is 82% efficient, Long pipe, hard edge is 72% efficient. Do a search for "Eclipse Combustion Engineering Guide pdf" and check out page 4. I'd be interested to see how much the boost perks up with a bare vs bellmouth turbo inlet. I'm guessing that an anti-surge compressor housing won't be as efficient as one with a smooth inlet. Thanks again for all that you do!
Should try to run shorter runner in the back and increase height as you get towards the throttle body. On equal length runners with the throttle body at the front the rear runner is over twice as long as the first one.
pretty sure Yamaha had constantly variable intake lengths on some of their performance motorbikes. They also did a lot of intake/head work for other car companies
@@garyhowe88 I'm not a Ford fan, so I know they did it but never really went too deeply into it. I was told it was continuous but I suspect it was just two stage. I can't see it being fully adjustable. It was quite a while ago, like 20 years ago.
Im scared of some of these. I STILL to this day continue cut the eddy 4.6 2v manifold in half and fill in the gap to fit the intake on a 5.4l engine. Hopefully jordan gets those hardballers on the market soon. Would really save me a ton of argon and time
Most of my stuff stays below 4 grand RPMs 80% of the time even if it can rev to 6-8 grand before hitting redline and the new RB v8 stroker ( 4.5 crank stock 4.25 bore ) mopar engine I’m putting together isn’t setup for HP as diesel like torque curves are good enough and modern 6 or 7 manual transmission and rear end gearing work so well together and is more realistically useable day to day
Well look, if you're going to build one you should make it adjustable. You can make your own rpm based controller with an Arduino, open source and $10. Easy to learn, no joke. You don't need dual runners either, like early SHOs and MR2s had. You can simulate runner length. Start with 2 intake boxes 1 for each bank. Fold one bank over on top of the other, they will be offset but runner length is equal. Then, connect the 2 intake boxes at the far end, (far from the throttle.) Then another tube connecting the 2 intake boxes in the middle of the intake. Inside each of the tubes you have a vacuum controlled flap that blocks flow, doesn't have to seal perfectly. At low rpms all the cylinders breath from the Throttle body side, mid rpms the far valve opens up allowing the 2 banks to pull air from the TB side AND from each other at the far end, High rpms both valves open, each cylinder can pull from a larger volume and 3 directions effectively making it a shorter path. Visual aid Mazda KL v6 intake comparison. th-cam.com/video/mVcCTana4vw/w-d-xo.html Side note: If you're boosting or supercharging there is no benefit to a staged intake.
Personally I'd go with the better lower end because everything I've built is for street use and it just makes for a better daily. And yes I've ran high RPM motors but find them to be a pain in the ass for daily driving.
I worked in a Chevrolet dealership in 1968 thru 1972, and remember the dealer's son ordering a 1969 Camaro Z28, and with it a staggered dual quad CanAm intake manifold. I would assume that the way the intake was made, the plenum was probably open which would lead to high rev. capability. Have you ever played with one of these?
Does the angles of entry on the runners from the cross ram intake planning to the intake of the cylinder head port make a big difference or not really?? ( like having it go straight in like most stack injection vs 2 or 3 90* bends or a U mandrel bend in and out of the cylinder flanges to the intake plenum and of course everything is port matched because obviously that makes turbulence which I don’t think 🤔 ever works to your advantage to make higher hp or torque ) The reason im asking questions is I’m planning on making a variable length runner with flaps ( 🤔 of trying to have 2 to 3 different stages so I have lowered end , middle and higher end torque by folding the runners on top of each other ( 🥖 like kneading bread dough or making candy 🍬 ) with stepper motors ( my Version of vanos and or Gm’s DBW Throttlebody ) ( still will work with other ways like toggle switches or vacuum/boost canisters but the general setup is way different from mine ) controlling too open up a different set of intake runners ) inside like the ford SHO v6 aluminium intake that some people Polish up. mixed with the 1960’s max wedge 🧀 mopar engines longer 30” runner intake / Nelson racing engines / Edelbrock intake Cross ram with a built in super chiller running a/c cooling at @ -10 f maximum capacity ( R744 instead of R12 refrigerant ) ( might never see it though and be wishful thinking 💭 that I get sub 0 f cooling on a 60+ F day and actually need M100 spray as antifreeze on the HX air side ( water side already has automotive antifreeze in it, 1-3 gallon total loop sizing with different 5~G main water to air loop to shed most of the boost heat way away from the front of the intake but after the low mounted turbos ) with higher humidity if at all🤷🏻♂️ We see ) it’s for my 440/426 hemi block platform was working on a b deck but it’s dead 💀 and this one is easier to build into a foe hemi it’s a or hot rod and NASCAR trick you might know about Richard. That cobra 🐍 intake picture you chose for the thumb nail is one funny 😂😂😂 looking part as I genuinely laugh at loud and thought 💭 what the hell are you up to now Richard after watching the video Look 👀 like it works but it’s goofy 🙃 cartoonish as all get out never seen anyone running one like that in my lifetime the closest thing I’ve seen is high and Mighty ramchagers/stack intakes but that’s straight up or in a cross ram folded flat with the ground not 120~* pointed out wards ( and obviously not across ram ) and 2-4 feet up from the rest of the engine. Would having variable exhaust runners work the same way as the intake side of the engine system?? I can’t get it to work on the project engine I’m working on right now with the turbos but maybe some one smarter than me in the future can or this will be helpful information for me and others in the future as I know that there’s a difference between log and longer fixed runner length exhaust as in the other videos of yours Richard and on the internet/real life information available to me and others
have you ever done a diesel, i own a 7.3 powerstroke and the in take manifold is connected to each other it would be interesting to see how it would do. Great video!!
@@richardholdener1727 the powerstroke head intakes are all connected together, they have small runners into a large connected room. I guess that simulates shorty intake runners? thank for the reply!
Pretty cool test, the only thing is, you should explain how this would benefit really well in wide open drag racing. For a street car from stop light to stop light, it’s not very effective. Keep up the great vids. It would really cool to see a video, based on different hone hatch patterns and grits. One engine with X and another engine with Y and so forth. I see lots of claims on hone hatch and grit, unless there is vids out there already:
@@Prestiged_peck I don't know but maybe a tpi type intake on those old 455s might work well. I remember Hot Rod did build ups on all of those engines about 20 years ago, they said that some of them were at the maximum measured torque just as the dyno run was beginning. They were probably making more but it wasn't measured. A tpi intake would enhance that even more. Don't worry, no one is going to make a tpi intake for them.
I have a 4.6l 4v in a 97 Grand Marquis. it puts down an easy 310 to the tire. Its got Some bolt-ons Its my "Poor mans Marauder" It should put down more but the 2.73 rear gear kills some power. It'll get about 28mpg at 65mph though.
![What Do YOU Know About Custom Inlet Manifolds? | Plazmaman [TECH TALK]](/img/n.gif)
Back When I was a crew chief on an old six cylinder Asphalt Modified, Slant Six Chrysler, We made our own intake by using 2x2 square tubing about two feet long with an aftermarket 4bbl intake bolted to that. my goodness, tons of torque! Also I made a custom 904 push button shifted trans with no torque converter, It had a ball valve controlling the trans pump pressure. Super low inertia for lightening quick acceleration off the turns!
Caterpillar forklifts used the same idea on their transmissions, when the "clutch" was depressed oil pressure was bled progressively back into the transmission. They still had a torque converter though.
Look at the mazda factory racing lemans winning 787b 4 rotor. Adjustable intake runners depending on revs, beautiful engineering 👌👏👏👏
yes-and early F1 motor had same thing
@@richardholdener1727 Alfa Romeo and Lancia had variable induction in their road cars in the 90's, although they had only two different runner lenghts.
@@Karpo1986 In 1960 already existed that,,,
Some 2-strokes did the same with their exhausts to change the tuned-length of the expansion chambers. Some jet skis even had variable water injection in the exhaust to change the temperature, which changed the local speed of sound (!!) inside the pipes to alter the powerband.
Rich, your vids are solid freaking gold brother. Priceless!
Glad you like them!
I think it was the “High And Mighty” Ramchargers of the early 1960’s used radiator hose as the intake runners with a huge metal box as the plenum. Some pictures the runners would be so long the carbs were almost above the roofline. Those cars had some cartoonish exhaust too.
I saw it run on tv, and the megaphone exhaust give it the howl from Hell!! It absolutely BELLOWED!
The Ramchargers (all young Chrysler engineers, like Tom Hoover) basically invented the tunnel ram, and used this knowledge to design the Sonoramic Commando (lol) long ram intakes, as well as the Max Wedge cross rams.
Those cartoonish exhaust were tuned also
you are right, and they used hose so they could keep cutting it shorter and shorter until the quarter mile times increased, and they knew what the last best runner length was.
They needed that plenum because unless you use a sequesial port injection, every time the intake valve closes, the air/fuel mix runs back up the runner. If there's a shared plenum, the air fuel mix goes to another cylinder. but with individual runners and no shared plenum, the result is a hazy fog of atomized fuel hanging over the top if you've ever seen a mechanical fuel injector setup idle in the pits.
Bruce Crower took it a step further, using different length caliopes on his injectors.
@@albertgaspar627
Another reason for the plenum is to keep air speed from siphoning the fuel up and out of the carb while moving foward. Look at early drag cars and Bonneville cars.
I almost caught my car on fire while test driving and tuning while on the freeway with no air cleaner and no hood. 🔥😂👎
You should see later header designs, like what Smokey Yunick did. Or, the crazy-cool 180 degree and 360 degree headers. That's the tuning I like to read about.
Mr. Holdener..Thank you for actually listening about testing differing lengths and general tpi mods. I posted on another video with suggestions in regards to this..
The fact that you actually did it, just blows me away...
It also shows the wave resonance effects something fierce on that first one...just remember Everything in a tpi system is tunable.
Everything in everything is tunable
It appears that other resonances, such as plenum volume Helmholz resonance is occurring here. Perhaps attaching the ram tubes in a 180 degree fashion to have equal pulsing in each plenum will provide different or better results. Also connecting the two plenums with a valve will allow different tuning.
Excellent work here. I would have loved to do this experiment back when I taught engine lab back at U of MN. This is a perfect example of the concepts taught in the classic IC engine textbook by Taylor & Taylor decades ago. I'm so glad you chose to show it here. Hardcore fundamental stuff. We all love Engine Masters, but the knowledgeable engine guys like your channel just a bit better.
Damn Richard always comes out swinging with knowledge! 🔥🔥🔥🔥
I saw a rotary with electronic slides that got shorter at higher rpm and were long at idle. The slide length was set to rpm and throttle opening percentage.
This just proves what Mopar knew 60 years ago, when they designed the long ram manifolds for big blocks in big heavy cars, and short runner cross rams for their Super Stock drag cars. No secret, for an old goat like me, lol.
This brings back memories of my old Formula SAE college days. Back then, I thought intakes were all about flow numbers, but then I realized the importance of Heimholtz Resonance on how to tune the intake plenum, runner length and diameter, and radii. Air flow is fluid like and sound waves/resonance affects the flow of the air going into the engine. Think of it this way, if you had a subwoofer up against a draining kitchen sink, the water doesn't flow as fast as with no sound.
Any book you recommend on intake design?
@@fokjohnpainkiller Scientific Design of Intake and Exhaust Systems by Phillip H. Smith. Also The Design and Tuning of Competition Engines by the same author. You can get some of the same information from David Vizard's How To Build Horsepower in a less dry format. (This is no exhaustive [no pun intended] list, just a few to get you started. Amazon or your local library would be a resource to try for more.)
Talk about seeing reflected waves in the power curve.
Oh and this is exactly why OEM's have sold many intake manifolds with dual length runners. Long for the low end torque, then swaps over to a short runner as the RPM rise. Mostly on 4 and 6 cylinders.
Why settle, when you can have both ;)
My V8 Audi S4 has that as well. Even seen three stage/runner length intake manifolds on the older timing belt V8 Audi engines. Pretty sure that the older Lamborghini Murcielago 6.2 liter V12 had a three stage intake manifold too.
Almost all new cars have some form of variable intakes.
That and VVT have completely changed the game. EFI did too, but these things build on that. No wonder modern engines have such a wide powerband and a flat torque curve! If Comp or Isky or Crane were to develop a retrofit VVT system for old-school V8s, sportsman racing and hot rodding would never be the same. And honestly, a simple, rudimentary system could be devised with a variable cam gear, incorporating a clutch or spring with electronic control, based on load data.
This is why I have a Hilborn 8 stack EFI on my street car,, great video well done !!!
I recently watched a similar test with an ITB 4AGE. You could hear when the harmonics were working and when they weren't. He also tested straight, 45* bend, and 90* bend trumpets of a similar length to see if that cost power (it did) as well as different opening styles. All real interesting stuff.
Garage4age ? I love that guy (no homo)
This guy tests a lot of variables, it's cool stuff.
Thank you Richard for all your testing. Keeps my wheels turning in my brain
Just gotta love Rich... His Info is always helpful and valuable💪🏾💪🏾💪🏾 what's crazy is I personally know a guy out here in AZ with a 1929 "something car" with 2 long custom intakes that sit on each side of the 350 sbc with edlebrock carbs on top.. I can and will prove it if needed... But great Info Dog
you pick the combo that has the most area under the curve in the intended rpm range.
It would have been nice to list the exact runner length.
Now you got me looking at intake manifolds going "whaowaahowowowohm"
When you think of the engine as an air pump and a complete system, you have to measure from the carb/tb blades all the way to the exhaust exit, wherever that may be (uncorked at least). So the same principles work on headers. Long runner intakes need longer tube headers, short runners need shorter header tubes. One wont work best without the other. I dont quite understand the terms and physics involved, but I understand results.
If you want to learn, study up on fluid dynamics and tuning flow.
@@xmo552 I probably should've done that 30 years ago, back when I still read books. Nowadays, if I cant absorb and understand content within 10 minutes, I move on, lol.
@@donellmuniz590
Yuuuuuup. Well, try a TH-cam vid. 👍
ferrari actually has an ajustable intake length on the LaFerrari, that tech is already banned from formula one before they got tu use is, the new gmc 3.0L inline 6 diesel also has variable runner length intakes.
Most vw engines seem to have flaps that block one intake port per cylinder I think. Acts similar to variable runner length
@@ReubenHorner So do those 4.6 Lincoln engines.
@@ReubenHorner Those flaps changes the swirl/tumble of the air entering the cylinder for lean combustion. Those flaps are removed in high performance engines.
My 2018 Tundra has automatic adjustable runners , that vary according to load and RPM. Cool stuff.
@@julienboucaron9780 the tumble flaps also prevent super knock during high load low rpm situations like from cruising on the highway and having to go up a hill in the highest gear of the transmission. Most of the time my calibrator will have the tumble flaps just stay open from about 1900 rpms to redline. Plus they help with cold start up because the air swirl causes the fuel to mix better.
This was awesome! You should test the working man's mods or the hs budget stuff like throttle body spacers, muffler delete, or change to duals and "cai" (but you did that)!
I would love to see more videos on this topic!
That 13 inch runner was definitely going back up. Goes to show B heads with the right induction don't do bad for peak power when optemized.
I like the 2nd intake runner, sure you dont have all the top end power but that bottom with some on top is a really good setup
I like what your doing. This is the only one of your videos that I've seen.
The one thing I think you might be missing is test for resonance. I think this is one of the biggest reasons why port polishing works. After all even though it's primary purpose is moving air. When it comes down to it. It is pulsed air. And at those engine speeds the pulses create a standing wave. At resonance that standing wave helps you. Especially if it occurs at the entrance to the port.
do a search for reflected waves
Focus first on the exhaust system--get something that really clears out the combustion chamber, since you can't burn that exhaust twice. That in itself will create a "Draw" on the intake, and if you tune that to make torque at what RPM you will run, then the ram effect almost acts like "boost"
Really liked the video, thumbs up!
You are probably the 2nd or 3rd person to show a graph instead of the bullshit horse power number in hundreds of videos.
btw, there was variable runner length in some engines of the 80's but then it was banned from competition
one famous car is the rotary Mazda 787B
Thanks for using ford engines in this video!
Loved every minute of it, is like Lab Time but I don't have to do any of the heavy lifting, just watch and learn.
Thanks and post more variable runner length videos with other engines, I love the variety.👌🏻😎👍🏻
will do
LOVE this! Awesome. Long runners and small & fast long tube headers for max power to 6,000 RPM again!
I am surprised that you don't have a 3d printer yet. Lots of even hobby printers will push .065 nylon trimmer line that you can find with glass or Aramid fibre. The benefits of having a printed intake is you can have proper runner taper and gives you so much more freedom in packaging.
or make sections that screw on for quick changes.
I have some 3D printed intakes too-the problem is usually heat
Richard, congratulations on getting into the camshaft business. Thought, design, build and market an intake manifold and cam combo for LQ9 etc for trucks maximizing torque from 1500 to say 4500. I'll buy the first one!
This guy is a legend. Recently discovered the channel and can't stop watching. Really good stuff!
thnx and welcome aboard
I liked the adjustable runner intake on the early mid 90s L35 4.3 very efficient and effective
I never thought I'd see a video like this on TH-cam! Wicked. Super informative! Thank you for filming this!
I like having torque on the lower end for street racing, light to light, took all my smog stuff , larger fuel injectors, chip and tune, larger modified exhaust, cold air intake, on my 1986 Corvette, scary torque monster with the long runner length, don't need high speed dangerous stuff.
Back in the 70’s a buddy of mine made his own sheet metal tunnel ram intake manifold for the 350 Chev in his mid engine sand rail. He used like 1 1/4 or 1 1/2” tubing running up to a square(ish) plenum. It totally didn’t work. The fuel just ponded in the plenum under the carb.
The runners on his manifold were around 12” long (or slightly more) as I recall.
Im really going to need to buy a couple of your books.
Richard I know it would be a pain but I’d love to see you take the data you just learned and build a variable length manifold that optimize both top and bottom. It would make a great vid!
That was done years ago with a For 250 Cross flow engine. Was quite impressive. It was controlled by small electric motors increasing the runner length up top with the rpm from 3000 rpm onwards.
The torque was very impressive
Pretty much what many factory intakes do, but obviously size/space restricted. Would definitely be useful to have both options though. Going road racing, pop on the stacks and run with it. Then putting around, swap em out.
Enjoyed this, as I have put a lot of thought into it in the past.
My father used to build custom intakes out of steel for some of his projects. They seemed to get the job done pretty well, but I don't know how he calculated all the dimensions... Probably just by intuition.
Ford actually had a dual runner length manifold on their V6 engines. It was a complex manifold with a trapdoor. By default the engine would be set at the long runners and as soon as the engine crept up in RPM the little trap door would flip to the short runners at high RPM. It wasn't a very reliable system.
until ford perfected it with the 1989 ford taurus sho, 3.0L DOHC.
@@tartus4916 That would be Yamaha that perfected it. The whole engine in the Ford Taurus SHO 89-91
Haven't had a chance to watch video yet but here's my observations. I remember perhaps 30 years ago there was these "mini rods" which were 4 cylinder powered tractor pullers who used naturally aspirated 4's and most of them used "long tube" intakes. It makes sense.
Would love to see this performed again with a tapering diameter runners, different shape runners, or a hydroformed running thatr has a surface like a golf ball, just to see if CFM increases... I love the content! Can you do a Volvo Redblock? B230? :)
For engine geeks this is something we've wondered about. How does this apply to a boosted engine? Should the runners/volume stay relatively small while the boost does the work?
I would love to see this also.
Runner length will have a similar effect on the power curve n/a or boosted. short runner high/ long runner low.
Boost pressure is just a measure of resistance. It depends on what’s causing the”most” resistance, again its dependent on you combination of parts, as to whats going to change.
Runner area matters, the less area in the runner means more velocity for the same mass of air(how big is the straw), which is beneficial at low engine speed, The velocity helps charge the cylinder at low rpm. But this can begin to be restrictive at higher rpm. Think about valve opening time and how that shortens as engine RPM increases. The more RPM increases the less time you have to shove air into the engine. So a short larger runner with a good sized plenum, is what you want for high rpm turbo power. Do you want a easy way to experience this go get a bunch of straws like a coffee straw and something you can suck a milkshake through and play around with blowing different fluids through them, Air is a fluid.
Mazdas 787B 4 rotor race car for 1991lemans season had adjustable intake runner lenghs. The only vehicle I’m aware of with the moving intake manifold. Check it out
There is no one size fits all answer, but boost pressure is just a measure of resistance in your system at a specified CFM and rpm. Over all air flow is what u wana pay attention to.
Every turbo engine he puts on the dyno he runs NA first, you will see that the curves mirror each other in shape. Just look up his other videos.
same under boost
@@williamkillingsworth2619 fluids don't compress
When I saw the thumbnail, I immediately thought "Starship Enterprise". 😛
Engage
"Mr Sulu, plot a course for Gapplebees, maximum warp."
Please, some time, play with adding ports between the two plenums. i.e. One connecting the two in the middle, and one connecting the two at the end (which could eventually be open/closed by the ECU at different RPM ranges) i.e. Like Mazda's KL motor (i.e. the V6 used in the mid 90's Ford Probe). Would love to see the gains actually quantified.
I did that
Car craft did this test on a bbc with a mech. Fi system. Found that 13" from valve face to air opening of the stack. Made the most for cinder ramming. This was for individual runners. On a 98 honda vfr 800. The do use a two length running intake. The tall stacks would lift out of the shorter ones at about 10000rpm. A very noticeable change from 10000 up to 15,500. This test doesnt take into account the shared plenum or amount of volume a plenum has on the effect. The first graft showed a very erratic graph line. As the runners got shorter...they leveled off. When you get to the dodge magnum dog house intake. You will find ne of the best designs for runner length and volume. Another amazing pc is the wiend dual tunnel ram.
I like the "belt driven" intakes the most :D
🤣 HAH! That was awesome, here's your well deserved 👍🏻.
I prefer the gas-driven intakes.
@@andyharman3022 having both is better :D
I would really like to see you mess around with an old caddilac 500 motor and do a mild to wild build up on it and then finish it up with a big bang on it
Me too!
I made a calculation to figure out runner length for intake manifolds and exhaust headers based on cam duration, rpms, and the speed of sound at different temperatures for resonance tuning. This video really makes me want to test it out. Could even get fancy and make it have multiple resonance points at different runner lengths for different rpm points like a tri-y/4-2-1 set of headers.
I keep hoping we get to the point we can 3d print intakes and see all kinds of cool things. a tpi style intake with a straight down short runner in the middle with valves to open would be very cool.
@@jsomething2 as long as you have the money to play with go nuts and please keep me informed!
I do not, I don't even know what you'd print with. I've searched and found a few that used pla for prototypes but it would last in a running engine. I don't think home 3d printing is there yet
@@jsomething2 yeah I am a simple man so I would probably just cut out aluminum flanges to weld already pre-cut aluminum pipes plus a collector to. The 3d printers and scanners have supposedly come down in price a lot so I might look into getting one.
Very cool!
Even with you going into detail explaining how runner length affects power, youve still got people leaving those comments that manifolds won't lose 60+ ft lbs of torque just from runner length despite having hard data right in front of them.
Interesting results between the early and late engines. Combo 3 on the early engine gave improved torque and hp across the whole rev range, whereas the late engine it was a compromise everywhere. One was clearly better than the factory manifold, the other was a pure compromise.
GM did experiment with this in the Opel Omega Lotus headed 3.0 six in 1986,they used a variable runner length manifold
Did they use it on the Carlton?
@@richardholdener1727 Hi yes it was actually a 3.6 and it was called Opel Omega in Germany,Vauxhall Lotus Carlton in UK,it was a popular joyriders car next to the Xr4 Turbo Ford Sierra
Just found this awesome love the indepth knowledge for me long Runners suits my car and my needs more tourqe
Honda f1 motors a few years back had servo motors adjusting velocity tube lengths with a throttle valve at the base of each one
The cobra motors DID have adjustable intake runners . It sat under the manifold and would open at 2500 rpm
are you talking about IMRC plates?
So I remember back in the day my dad rented a Lincoln Mark VIII and it had the 4.6 4 valve and it was pretty damn fast. I also drove one of the OBS Ford Lightnings with a 351 and while it was pretty quick, it wasn't anywhere near as fast as the newer body style Lightning with the 5.4 supercharged. I used to race a modified 2000 Lightning and I had a 1992 Acura Integra with a custom built turbo kit using an old Garrett T3 from a Dodge Daytona 2.2 and it was ALOT of fun. It made 308 whp, but it also didn't weigh much, so it was pretty closely matched to the Lightning on paper. The Lightning came stock with 360 HP, but he had a custom tune, a bigger supercharger pulley, I/H/E, and some slight bolt ons, so he was making around 500 whp, and on the street we were always close, but he would always pull away from me. It was always alot of fun though and we became friends, but I always wanted a Lightning...or a Mark VIII.
I think you just had a million dollar idea. If you can figure out how to do an adjustable runner while you are going through the power band that would be awesome!
lots out there already doing it
Have you ever done a similar test but vaying the runner diameter by dropping in sleeves?
not with drop in sleeves but good idea
I was thinking the same thing.
@@richardholdener1727 Radius entry and/or increasing the runner diameter helps gain power back with long runner intake manifolds, but not always.
I tested a method similar to this on an old motorcycle once. Slid velocity stacks up and down on the top side of carbs only(downdraft style). Long=low end short= top end
@@dug8531 I have a set of these for my V twin Aprilia... vacuum operated.
Thanks for another modular video
I built one 11 yrs ago on my SBC pickup 67 hp just because of my intake... Top secret intake....
Why top secret? Who were you hiding the design from?
What would happen if every other cylinder had an intake runner and header that was turned for bottom end power and the other half of the cyclenders were tuned for top end power? Would you get the best of both worlds?
I always wondered the same thing with 2 strokes. What would happen if you took a Banshee and had one cyclender ported for bottom end and put on a bottim end expansion chamber. Then port and pipe the other cyclender as a top end screamer. It would be cool to see.
I did that test with the Fast adj intake on the big LS3 intake test
sheet steel & sheet aluminum alloy make great DIY intake manifolds..
Back in the 50s, the Crower U-fab was just two long tubes and two intake "adapters", for lack of a better word. The runners were just hoses that you cut to length and clamped down!
My father wrote his Masters Thesis about this exact problem in 1951. I have a pdf copy if you have a place I could upload it to.
Did he hang out with the the ramchagers/work for Chrysler corporation of gmc ?? If so thank you ☺️ to your dad as most of the information that I’ve learned is from older hot roders and dodge explaining how the 1950-70’s max wedge 🧀 engines 30” inch long runners work
I can upload it to my server. Email it to me. jordan@waughtal.rocks
That was a forward thinking young man in 1951! Most cars on the road at that time still ran flatheads of one kind or another, the only overheads were the Caddy, Olds, and Hemis, all brand new then. I think on the flatheads, the block itself was such a choke point, the manifold would hardly matter.
I'd kill to read that thesis...
@@jlda1887 Do you have a throw away email, I could send it.
If I was to build my own rat rod (someday!), and hood clearance won't be an issue (no hood!), I'd build the longest manifold I could, and the longest-tubed headers. Cuz I'd be doing burnouts and street cruising, not racing. Besides, it's also about what looks cool.
Richard you’re amazing! Some great info there. Thanks for posting!
I'd LOVE to see this test on a 4.3 v6 there's only 2 different intakes available, dual plane vortec, or dual plane non vortec. Unless you can find one of the old nascar intakes. I'd be interested in seeing what gains a single plane would have on my little nitrous 4.3
I'm almost done with an EFI-converted Edelbrock #2114 intake on the 4.3 in my '97 s10 and I'm excited to test it out. I don't think the good Vortec heads have any other intake available. They call this intake a "dual plane" but the runners are definitely set up different than a v8 dual plane, it just has the left and right bank divided at the plenum.
I'm pretty sure Richard did a video recently using this intake with a later model 4.3, carbureted of course. I'd personally love to see a "big bang" test with EFI and turbo boost on a stock bottom end and see what it can take if tuned properly.
PS what a cool project for a 4.3! Subscribed.
@@DefenistrationAlley awesome thanks!! I subscribed back 🙂
Now DIY something like the Isuzu used on the 6VD1 engine (like 2001 Rodeo). Vacuum solenoid for secondary throttles. even if secondaries stick open, it doesn't run away.
this is awsome!!! this is something i always wondered
Very cool to see length changes in action. Talking about intakes, I'd love to see the performance difference of running a turbo bare vs using a bellmouth on the inlet. In theory, by running it bare, that hard edge causes a 15-25% flow restriction. I was just watching Finnegan's twin turbo boat videos and it kills me whenever I see a bare turbo intake. You're losing potential power and it's a cheap fix!
I don't think the change in flow is 25%, but I have run radiused entries on turbos and blower-they work well. They add flow best when near the flow limit of the turbo or blower. Finnegan is awesome
@@richardholdener1727 I love the Roadkill guys. Please get them a Dodge Turbo II for their Rampage! As for the intake, it's really surprising. You wouldn't think so but it can actually be that much of a restriction. I'm not an engineer but I work in a building full of them and have learned quite a bit. The hard edge creates turbulence disrupting the flow. A radiused intake gets the closest to laminar flow, 97% efficient. Pipe with a 13 degree taper is 94%. Short pipe, hard edge is 82% efficient, Long pipe, hard edge is 72% efficient. Do a search for "Eclipse Combustion Engineering Guide pdf" and check out page 4. I'd be interested to see how much the boost perks up with a bare vs bellmouth turbo inlet. I'm guessing that an anti-surge compressor housing won't be as efficient as one with a smooth inlet. Thanks again for all that you do!
What a great video. The plenum size(plates) comparisson should be very good video too.
I always target that low end grunt, I don't really drive in the super high revs. Longer runners all the way 👍
Do what Ferrari did, make the runner variable with RPM. Tune them with a map, have electronic system that adjusts to best length for the current RPM.
Should try to run shorter runner in the back and increase height as you get towards the throttle body. On equal length runners with the throttle body at the front the rear runner is over twice as long as the first one.
The plenum is not runner length
Would like to see some testing done with comparison on tapered runners with same lengths as parallel runners etc but different volumes etc
pretty sure Yamaha had constantly variable intake lengths on some of their performance motorbikes. They also did a lot of intake/head work for other car companies
But how? I dont think its possible.
@@ryanmalin it's easily possible, was a hill climb car here in the uk that had it.
@@ryanmalin Ford in Australia did it on their production line 6 cylinder cars for a few years.
@@DodgyBrothersEngineering continuous? Or just two stages?
@@garyhowe88 I'm not a Ford fan, so I know they did it but never really went too deeply into it. I was told it was continuous but I suspect it was just two stage. I can't see it being fully adjustable. It was quite a while ago, like 20 years ago.
Im scared of some of these. I STILL to this day continue cut the eddy 4.6 2v manifold in half and fill in the gap to fit the intake on a 5.4l engine. Hopefully jordan gets those hardballers on the market soon. Would really save me a ton of argon and time
This was good, some sports motorcycles have ecu adjustable induction tubes from factory.
I only street drive my car and I never rev very high, so I guess a long runner would be best for me
Most of my stuff stays below 4 grand RPMs 80% of the time even if it can rev to 6-8 grand before hitting redline and the new RB v8 stroker ( 4.5 crank stock 4.25 bore ) mopar engine I’m putting together isn’t setup for HP as diesel like torque curves are good enough and modern 6 or 7 manual transmission and rear end gearing work so well together and is more realistically useable day to day
Build & test a long tube equal length collector like header.. (edit: as intakes, equal length long tube intake header with collector and no plenum.)
I've built lots of adj headers too
@@richardholdener1727 i meant for on the intake side, sorry for not being clearer.
@@AndyFromm I want to do that on my cars. Basically the custom intake manifold will be headers in reverse to suck in the air more effectively.
26B adjustable runner length ITB's with pop up up and down headlights motors
The imrc valves were ment for different runner length in the manifold
IMRC doesn't change length-it stops flow from 1 port-makes the port effectively smaller
The factory intake with plates would be adjusting through the rpm range. By removing them it eliminated that but wouldn't they adjust to rpm/load
Always wanted to see the results of various lengths and styles
Well look, if you're going to build one you should make it adjustable. You can make your own rpm based controller with an Arduino, open source and $10. Easy to learn, no joke. You don't need dual runners either, like early SHOs and MR2s had. You can simulate runner length. Start with 2 intake boxes 1 for each bank. Fold one bank over on top of the other, they will be offset but runner length is equal. Then, connect the 2 intake boxes at the far end, (far from the throttle.) Then another tube connecting the 2 intake boxes in the middle of the intake. Inside each of the tubes you have a vacuum controlled flap that blocks flow, doesn't have to seal perfectly. At low rpms all the cylinders breath from the Throttle body side, mid rpms the far valve opens up allowing the 2 banks to pull air from the TB side AND from each other at the far end, High rpms both valves open, each cylinder can pull from a larger volume and 3 directions effectively making it a shorter path. Visual aid Mazda KL v6 intake comparison. th-cam.com/video/mVcCTana4vw/w-d-xo.html
Side note: If you're boosting or supercharging there is no benefit to a staged intake.
A Volvo redblock would be great. i look at this as my 2.3 is 1/2 of this v8 but our heads diffently not as good. But I thiink same concept applies.
I think the newer style engines with variable runner lengths is the way to go.
you built your manifolde as separate left and right manifolds...build with oposit mixed left and right sides....and a common plenum
we ran it joined and not joined-all various lengths. Adjustable rules
Personally I'd go with the better lower end because everything I've built is for street use and it just makes for a better daily. And yes I've ran high RPM motors but find them to be a pain in the ass for daily driving.
Pick the one that has the most area under the curve
Great video, thank you Richard!!!!!!
I worked in a Chevrolet dealership in 1968 thru 1972, and remember the dealer's son ordering a 1969 Camaro Z28, and with it a staggered dual quad CanAm intake manifold. I would assume that the way the intake was made, the plenum was probably open which would lead to high rev. capability. Have you ever played with one of these?
I have not run the factory cross ram intake
any tests on runner area/ diameter or a tapered runner?
taper is harder to do-but made easier with 3D printing
Does the angles of entry on the runners from the cross ram intake planning to the intake of the cylinder head port make a big difference or not really?? ( like having it go straight in like most stack injection vs 2 or 3 90* bends or a U mandrel bend in and out of the cylinder flanges to the intake plenum and of course everything is port matched because obviously that makes turbulence which I don’t think 🤔 ever works to your advantage to make higher hp or torque )
The reason im asking questions is I’m planning on making a variable length runner with flaps ( 🤔 of trying to have 2 to 3 different stages so I have lowered end , middle and higher end torque by folding the runners on top of each other ( 🥖 like kneading bread dough or making candy 🍬 ) with stepper motors ( my Version of vanos and or Gm’s DBW Throttlebody ) ( still will work with other ways like toggle switches or vacuum/boost canisters but the general setup is way different from mine ) controlling too open up a different set of intake runners ) inside like the ford SHO v6 aluminium intake that some people Polish up. mixed with the 1960’s max wedge 🧀 mopar engines longer 30” runner intake / Nelson racing engines / Edelbrock intake Cross ram with a built in super chiller running a/c cooling at @ -10 f maximum capacity ( R744 instead of R12 refrigerant ) ( might never see it though and be wishful thinking 💭 that I get sub 0 f cooling on a 60+ F day and actually need M100 spray as antifreeze on the HX air side ( water side already has automotive antifreeze in it, 1-3 gallon total loop sizing with different 5~G main water to air loop to shed most of the boost heat way away from the front of the intake but after the low mounted turbos ) with higher humidity if at all🤷🏻♂️ We see ) it’s for my 440/426 hemi block platform was working on a b deck but it’s dead 💀 and this one is easier to build into a foe hemi it’s a or hot rod and NASCAR trick you might know about Richard.
That cobra 🐍 intake picture you chose for the thumb nail is one funny 😂😂😂 looking part as I genuinely laugh at loud and thought 💭 what the hell are you up to now Richard after watching the video Look 👀 like it works but it’s goofy 🙃 cartoonish as all get out never seen anyone running one like that in my lifetime the closest thing I’ve seen is high and Mighty ramchagers/stack intakes but that’s straight up or in a cross ram folded flat with the ground not 120~* pointed out wards ( and obviously not across ram ) and 2-4 feet up from the rest of the engine.
Would having variable exhaust runners work the same way as the intake side of the engine system?? I can’t get it to work on the project engine I’m working on right now with the turbos but maybe some one smarter than me in the future can or this will be helpful information for me and others in the future as I know that there’s a difference between log and longer fixed runner length exhaust as in the other videos of yours Richard and on the internet/real life information available to me and others
Should rig up a sliding runner design like that 4 rotor race engine.
Very creative! ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
It all depends on what you are using the engine to do on rather or not you pay attention to the power curve or should say under the curve.
W I D E B A N D
have you ever done a diesel, i own a 7.3 powerstroke and the in take manifold is connected to each other it would be interesting to see how it would do. Great video!!
I don't run diesels on the engine dyno
@@richardholdener1727 the powerstroke head intakes are all connected together, they have small runners into a large connected room. I guess that simulates shorty intake runners? thank for the reply!
Pretty cool test, the only thing is, you should explain how this would benefit really well in wide open drag racing. For a street car from stop light to stop light, it’s not very effective. Keep up the great vids.
It would really cool to see a video, based on different hone hatch patterns and grits. One engine with X and another engine with Y and so forth. I see lots of claims on hone hatch and grit, unless there is vids out there already:
Someone should build a tpi system for the GM torquers, the Buick, Olds, & Pontiac 455s.
Why go to when you can just add injector ports for a sequential system? Or just go with a Holley sniper electric carburetor
@@Prestiged_peck I don't know but maybe a tpi type intake on those old 455s might work well. I remember Hot Rod did build ups on all of those engines about 20 years ago, they said that some of them were at the maximum measured torque just as the dyno run was beginning. They were probably making more but it wasn't measured. A tpi intake would enhance that even more. Don't worry, no one is going to make a tpi intake for them.
I have a 4.6l 4v in a 97 Grand Marquis. it puts down an easy 310 to the tire. Its got Some bolt-ons
Its my "Poor mans Marauder"
It should put down more but the 2.73 rear gear kills some power. It'll get about 28mpg at 65mph though.