I always see movies where the climbers put an anchor in a spot in the cliffside seemingly randomly. When they get off track & had no plans to actually climb that spot so it seemed they made their own anchors instead of using one at the top of where they were climbing from. I always wondered how something could just go into a little crack like that and actually hold, and what that product looked like & how it was used. Your video answered those questions for me so thank you very much. It’s so amazing that they’ve come up with a tool that can be put generally anywhere in the cliffside to anchor climbers in.
hi thanx for your feed back, you have some really interesting points here, good eye i do was attached to one point that was overconfidence of the area, i should definitely work on risk management for my next videos, i agree that teaching the safest technics is always the best, but somtimes it can get complicated to do figure eight and overhang not is enough for the force crated on an anchor. I used a head because in a bailing situation heads are only a couple bucks as with stoppers there are 15$
Best thing about all climbing instructional videos? The comments. You can learn so much and see so many view points. From there, you can make your own more educated decisions. Thank you all!
First off, he is very clearly not on belay so your point is moot. Second of all, it's obvious that he's standing on at least a decent-sized ledge. It's often fine to clip a single bomber bolt to back up your footing. Sure, he might as well clip both, but he didn't. Do you clip both bolts when standing at the end of your driveway so that you don't fall into the street? This video is crap, but not because anything he is doing is particularly unsafe within the context of which he was doing it.
While I see a lot of people pointing out all the problems with his instructions, as someone who knows literally nothing about climbing gear, I at least found this interesting to get an idea of what sorts of stuff is used for anchors
And 3 years later, me too. No-one should be watching this video and then going off and doing it for themselves for the first time anyway. I always thought climbers hammered literal wedges or somehow screwed bolts into rock and I couldn't understand how they could trust such single devices. This showed me they have many more tools available, those tools are smaller and lighter than I had imagined, and that they use them with redundancy in mind. Very useful video for the curious non-climber to get an idea about things.
There seems to be a fair bit of discussion here about knotting dynema slings in part due to the studies run by DMM and the resulting failures one knot can produce in factor 1 and factor 2 falls using standard 80KG test loads. Please note this study and those like it (while very helpful) are extremely conservative given the rigid nature or the anchor (possibly realistic) and the load (unrealistic). An actual climber's body will compress in the harness and may even enter a rotation. Each of these occurrences will effectively act like rope stretch and lower the overall loads. Personally I do not tie knots in Dynema and prefer to use a 7mm cordellete where possible. But the overall impression people seem to have is overly sever. If anyone knows of testing using a realistic climber load, please reply with a link as I think that information could be very useful.
hi loginatnine, i apriciate your feedback this is my first video and i would really like to improve on my next ones..., I agree with you the more range the cam is it would be stronger, but for me 90 % is a tricky one because if cams walk they could get stuck and it will also depend on the situacion, type of rock, and what you have left in your harness... thx for feedback
Great video. I am not a rock climber myself so it makes me wonder how many anchors do you need carrying with you. It looks like none of these are retrievable. Being more of a mountain hiker, I am after the best anchor type to move across rocks. Not so much for proper rock climbing but more like mountain hiking and the occasional mountain passes where you may have to secure yourself where there is black ice or frozen snow the time to cross a ledge. The weather changes so fast that sometimes the granite slab you just climbed all the way up to a saddle gets all wet and all of a sudden it becomes a very slippery proposal and being able to secure yourself for the descent is a real handy piece of knowledge to pick the right equipment. Maybe using a mix of two or three cams with a short leash in addition to the non retrievable anchor types would be my best option. Do these cams work well in snow and wet conditions or the rock has to be as dry as possible? Are there any known alternatives for wet rock conditions?
So what do you do when you climb higher and need to disconnect from the lower anchors? Do you leave the anchor behind? How do you disconnect the rope and do you leave the rope behind? Any rock climbers care to explain to me this?
You climb with two people. One person leads then the other person picks up the equipment behind them. Obviously solos are possible but that requires rappelling and using rope ascenders to get your stuff back. Or climbing the same pitch twice by yourself while self-belaying
@@d283jdsk2 ahh I see thank you… I always wondered how they do it… I thought they just leave behind a hook or something and carry a lot of it to get to the top.
I may be missing something completely- but when you have 3 anchors at different heights- and you place a sling across three- if it is is tied nearest to the bottom cam- dosn't that create a moment arm that would make the protection less effective over all? Or is the concept you rely on one cam and the other two are just backups?
The concept is to evenly distribute the load across 3 different points. If one fails in the event of a fall the other 2 will catch the fall. The height of each piece is irrelevant due to the nature of anchor building and incorporating equalization so that all point are waited evenly no matter their height
The anchor at the beginning is very poor. I'm not trying to "hate" but why are you belaying off the chains and not off the bolts? You increase the risk of failure when you put each link in the chain into play. Why use a magic x if you're only going to use one sling? It's not a redundant system. If the sling breaks the entire system will fail.
^^ I also agree. try using a clove hitch on each carabiner after its directly attached to the bolts and equalizing. Same thing you did attach the top non-lockers to the sling with cloves, and not on the chains. Or better yet double it up with a second identical length sling, as Brian G. mentioned. Generally its a bad idea (or at least discourteous by my understanding) to use those lower bottom chain links as many rap off those and attaching metal that can shift during a fall could create nicks or other damage to the anchors. This poses many potential safety issues, especially for beginners and also increases the maintenance needs of the crag.
As others have noted, there are several things wrong with the methods he shows: - First, always clip the bolts directly, not the ends of the chains. Only use the chains when rappelling. Clipping the ends of the chains wears them out faster, and introduces more potential failure points (especially with that janky hardware store connector at the bottom, clearly not rated for climbing..) - The standard is to use a locking carabiner on each bolt, and two locking biners at the master point for top-roping (one if you're belaying directly off the anchor).. For multi-point anchors, you don't necessarily need a locking biner at every piece, but at least some of them should be locking, generally the most critical / strongest pieces. - Pitons and copperheads?! What century is this? I'm sure that gear still has it's place, but these days and for 99% of people, stick to removable gear and 'clean climbing' ethics, and use nuts, cams, tricams, hexes, etc. - A sliding X is still popular, and whether using it with a single sling is sufficiently safe is debateable.. However it is not redundant, and it is easy enough to add a second sling, or put load-limiter knots on each side, to make it redundant.
you make a lot of good points, but the only one I have issue with is your use of "janky hardware store connector" it's called a clevis, and it's rated for over 6000 pounds of load. they're used with cranes or when you lift large loads. it's probably more secure than the bolt itself.
You do make good points - but you're overreaching on ethics. He was clearly talking about an alpine settings, and what the ethics are in different locations varies a lot.... in the Canadien rockies for example you can definitely still find those and people still use them. You don't do that at the roadside crag everyone goes to, but your intervention makes it look more out of place than it really is...
As an engineer the only anchor I would risk my life with is a raw bolt because the torque applied is stopping it pulling out, as long as that is substantially more than your weight then it will never come out unless the laws of physics change, the glued bolts and cams use mechanical friction and interference which can change for a number of reasons.
compared to free climbing this seems like a construction job, not climbing, maybe a few years from now I'll get into this. too complex. Long live bolts.
Jesus, no mention of ethics or clean climbing when using pitons/copperheads. Sure there's places where it's acceptable, and I'd value my life over the rock any day, but in a lovely crack like that, with plenty of pockets which look like they would take a nut you really shouldn't be hammering in stuff unless you have no choice. If you tried that in North Wales someone would soon "educate" you quite forcefully.
The issue is that you seem to approach this question purely from the perspective of your local crags. The world is a big place, and long alpine route still see those. It's not mainstream trad climbing but it still has its place for alpine stuff... don't be so assertive when there's not need for it. One could say the same about sport climbing & bolting in general on the same premises. Clearly though sport climbing is alive and well and has its places in crags where the local ethics values this approach. In trad-oriented crags it would be as close to a crime it could be to bolt a crack (or even anything, in some places).
Better to use two points of protection at all times as a back-up. If you have two bolts use them both!!! He's hanging on a cows tail from a single bolt ...
Wow talk about misinformation, between 40 and 70% of the range for cams? Try between 50 and 90. And the video doesn't even show it right, it shows like 50% and 30%. You clearly don't understand how cams work.
If you are the lead climbing you will have a person climbing behind you cleaning up the protection (you'll be belaying from above). Then the follower will put the protection back on the lead climbers rack for the next pitch.
once the first climber makes his first pitch ascent, he sets an anchor point and belays for the second climber (who was his belayer) who cleans the route on the climb up to him.
None of this video makes any sense or insures safety. Rock climbing has never made any sense to me, how it logically works, or how in the world of God it would be safe. This entire video fully confirms that rock climbing is wildly dangerous, even laughably so. How can people trust any of these methods? Nonsense. I will never rock climb. Thank you and goodnight.
This video is problematic. These are techniques that should be taught in person. While it is fine to demonstrate these techniques here, this video is advertised as a lesson when it should not be. Other points: -It appears that you are directly anchored to only one bolt -Teach the safest possible technique (instead of the sliding x, show an equalized figure 8 using four locking biners) -Alpine anchor doesn't belong in this lesson. -Why did you use a head instead of a stopper in the alpine anchor?
While I see a lot of people pointing out all the problems with his instructions, as someone who knows literally nothing about climbing gear, I at least found this interesting to get an idea of what sorts of stuff is used for anchors
I always see movies where the climbers put an anchor in a spot in the cliffside seemingly randomly. When they get off track & had no plans to actually climb that spot so it seemed they made their own anchors instead of using one at the top of where they were climbing from. I always wondered how something could just go into a little crack like that and actually hold, and what that product looked like & how it was used. Your video answered those questions for me so thank you very much. It’s so amazing that they’ve come up with a tool that can be put generally anywhere in the cliffside to anchor climbers in.
Thanks for this! I'm watching "For Your Eyes Only" and got really curious about the techniques!
hi thanx for your feed back, you have some really interesting points here, good eye i do was attached to one point that was overconfidence of the area, i should definitely work on risk management for my next videos, i agree that teaching the safest technics is always the best, but somtimes it can get complicated to do figure eight and overhang not is enough for the force crated on an anchor. I used a head because in a bailing situation heads are only a couple bucks as with stoppers there are 15$
Buen Video! Gracias Sebastian!
I just don't understand how people can trust their life's with these things
Best thing about all climbing instructional videos? The comments. You can learn so much and see so many view points. From there, you can make your own more educated decisions.
Thank you all!
I like how he's talking about anchor redundancy while he is anchored to only one bolt.
First off, he is very clearly not on belay so your point is moot. Second of all, it's obvious that he's standing on at least a decent-sized ledge. It's often fine to clip a single bomber bolt to back up your footing. Sure, he might as well clip both, but he didn't. Do you clip both bolts when standing at the end of your driveway so that you don't fall into the street? This video is crap, but not because anything he is doing is particularly unsafe within the context of which he was doing it.
LOL
Great video! Please keep doing more!great video!
Great video! Please keep doing more!
It still seems mad to trust one's life to something that could crumble.
How do you trust those anchors to work 😩
I thought it was informative. thanks for the video.
While I see a lot of people pointing out all the problems with his instructions, as someone who knows literally nothing about climbing gear, I at least found this interesting to get an idea of what sorts of stuff is used for anchors
And 3 years later, me too. No-one should be watching this video and then going off and doing it for themselves for the first time anyway. I always thought climbers hammered literal wedges or somehow screwed bolts into rock and I couldn't understand how they could trust such single devices. This showed me they have many more tools available, those tools are smaller and lighter than I had imagined, and that they use them with redundancy in mind. Very useful video for the curious non-climber to get an idea about things.
Ok but how did those bolts get into the side of the mountain to begin with?
a person drilled the rock and put them there
Waking your wife up at 3am like 4:14
😅😅
There seems to be a fair bit of discussion here about knotting dynema slings in part due to the studies run by DMM and the resulting failures one knot can produce in factor 1 and factor 2 falls using standard 80KG test loads. Please note this study and those like it (while very helpful) are extremely conservative given the rigid nature or the anchor (possibly realistic) and the load (unrealistic). An actual climber's body will compress in the harness and may even enter a rotation. Each of these occurrences will effectively act like rope stretch and lower the overall loads. Personally I do not tie knots in Dynema and prefer to use a 7mm cordellete where possible. But the overall impression people seem to have is overly sever. If anyone knows of testing using a realistic climber load, please reply with a link as I think that information could be very useful.
hi loginatnine, i apriciate your feedback this is my first video and i would really like to improve on my next ones..., I agree with you the more range the cam is it would be stronger, but for me 90 % is a tricky one because if cams walk they could get stuck and it will also depend on the situacion, type of rock, and what you have left in your harness... thx for feedback
This is absolutely amazing and crazy to me. I don’t understand how anyone figured any of this out lol.
I've just pondered the question how safe are these clips...now I'll find out.
Great video. I am not a rock climber myself so it makes me wonder how many anchors do you need carrying with you. It looks like none of these are retrievable. Being more of a mountain hiker, I am after the best anchor type to move across rocks. Not so much for proper rock climbing but more like mountain hiking and the occasional mountain passes where you may have to secure yourself where there is black ice or frozen snow the time to cross a ledge. The weather changes so fast that sometimes the granite slab you just climbed all the way up to a saddle gets all wet and all of a sudden it becomes a very slippery proposal and being able to secure yourself for the descent is a real handy piece of knowledge to pick the right equipment. Maybe using a mix of two or three cams with a short leash in addition to the non retrievable anchor types would be my best option. Do these cams work well in snow and wet conditions or the rock has to be as dry as possible? Are there any known alternatives for wet rock conditions?
But how people install those metal things in rock, by screwdriver? And how they did’t fall doing that
Great work!
So these clips once in stay in?? U don't get them back at end of climb?
So what do you do when you climb higher and need to disconnect from the lower anchors? Do you leave the anchor behind? How do you disconnect the rope and do you leave the rope behind? Any rock climbers care to explain to me this?
You climb with two people. One person leads then the other person picks up the equipment behind them.
Obviously solos are possible but that requires rappelling and using rope ascenders to get your stuff back. Or climbing the same pitch twice by yourself while self-belaying
@@d283jdsk2 ahh I see thank you… I always wondered how they do it… I thought they just leave behind a hook or something and carry a lot of it to get to the top.
I've never done trad or aid in my life, and even I can tell the piton is installed upside down.
Nice tutrial bro I'm bless your heart
I may be missing something completely- but when you have 3 anchors at different heights- and you place a sling across three- if it is is tied nearest to the bottom cam- dosn't that create a moment arm that would make the protection less effective over all? Or is the concept you rely on one cam and the other two are just backups?
The concept is to evenly distribute the load across 3 different points. If one fails in the event of a fall the other 2 will catch the fall. The height of each piece is irrelevant due to the nature of anchor building and incorporating equalization so that all point are waited evenly no matter their height
He put the piton in upside down. Also, it's not 1947.
LOL.
I've seen a number of those little metal wire loops fail. Why don't they make them much thicker?
Good question but I don't know maybe wait reasons but I see what you're saying
The anchor at the beginning is very poor. I'm not trying to "hate" but why are you belaying off the chains and not off the bolts? You increase the risk of failure when you put each link in the chain into play. Why use a magic x if you're only going to use one sling? It's not a redundant system. If the sling breaks the entire system will fail.
^^ I also agree. try using a clove hitch on each carabiner after its directly attached to the bolts and equalizing. Same thing you did attach the top non-lockers to the sling with cloves, and not on the chains. Or better yet double it up with a second identical length sling, as Brian G. mentioned.
Generally its a bad idea (or at least discourteous by my understanding) to use those lower bottom chain links as many rap off those and attaching metal that can shift during a fall could create nicks or other damage to the anchors. This poses many potential safety issues, especially for beginners and also increases the maintenance needs of the crag.
Sucks when you can't rap thru another group on their way up because they have their anchor on the bottom of the chains
As others have noted, there are several things wrong with the methods he shows:
- First, always clip the bolts directly, not the ends of the chains. Only use the chains when rappelling. Clipping the ends of the chains wears them out faster, and introduces more potential failure points (especially with that janky hardware store connector at the bottom, clearly not rated for climbing..)
- The standard is to use a locking carabiner on each bolt, and two locking biners at the master point for top-roping (one if you're belaying directly off the anchor).. For multi-point anchors, you don't necessarily need a locking biner at every piece, but at least some of them should be locking, generally the most critical / strongest pieces.
- Pitons and copperheads?! What century is this? I'm sure that gear still has it's place, but these days and for 99% of people, stick to removable gear and 'clean climbing' ethics, and use nuts, cams, tricams, hexes, etc.
- A sliding X is still popular, and whether using it with a single sling is sufficiently safe is debateable.. However it is not redundant, and it is easy enough to add a second sling, or put load-limiter knots on each side, to make it redundant.
you make a lot of good points, but the only one I have issue with is your use of "janky hardware store connector" it's called a clevis, and it's rated for over 6000 pounds of load. they're used with cranes or when you lift large loads. it's probably more secure than the bolt itself.
You do make good points - but you're overreaching on ethics. He was clearly talking about an alpine settings, and what the ethics are in different locations varies a lot.... in the Canadien rockies for example you can definitely still find those and people still use them. You don't do that at the roadside crag everyone goes to, but your intervention makes it look more out of place than it really is...
Who got here after watching free solo
So if u using 3 they not that safe??
I always hear mixed thoughts about the Sliding X anchor. Seems to be a very controversial topic.
Those cables and anchors need to be A LOT thicker for me to trust them.
Sliding X is not a redundant anchor.
“Bolts that are pre drilled into the rock, they are pretty secure” those bolts should bomber my dude “pretty secure” ain’t good enough haha
I'm not a climber but I can tell he is doing a sketchy job
As an engineer the only anchor I would risk my life with is a raw bolt because the torque applied is stopping it pulling out, as long as that is substantially more than your weight then it will never come out unless the laws of physics change, the glued bolts and cams use mechanical friction and interference which can change for a number of reasons.
Good video..
So how do u get em out
it would be wonderful if rock everywhere was as solid as that but i think it would be good to demonstrate a 4,5 or up to a 7 point anchor
Perfect or not but good basic advice for a person who has no idea how to install these things.
Couldn't watch this all the way through. Please don't follow this advice, get an experienced leader to show you the ropes
Pretty educational and informative.
is that in arco near the lake garda?
Awesome video!! Haters gonna hate!
@Glenn Johnson How is this stupid?
compared to free climbing this seems like a construction job, not climbing, maybe a few years from now I'll get into this. too complex. Long live bolts.
Very depressing overall.
And knots in a dyneema? Dmm sling tests video - check it out and start using nylon with knots or sliding X with your dyneema
Jesus, no mention of ethics or clean climbing when using pitons/copperheads. Sure there's places where it's acceptable, and I'd value my life over the rock any day, but in a lovely crack like that, with plenty of pockets which look like they would take a nut you really shouldn't be hammering in stuff unless you have no choice. If you tried that in North Wales someone would soon "educate" you quite forcefully.
Indeed, I would be educating them with the hammer and piton, in a certain crack that wont be found in any climbing guide
The issue is that you seem to approach this question purely from the perspective of your local crags.
The world is a big place, and long alpine route still see those. It's not mainstream trad climbing but it still has its place for alpine stuff... don't be so assertive when there's not need for it.
One could say the same about sport climbing & bolting in general on the same premises. Clearly though sport climbing is alive and well and has its places in crags where the local ethics values this approach. In trad-oriented crags it would be as close to a crime it could be to bolt a crack (or even anything, in some places).
So this may be a dumb question, but I really am unsure, do those peckers and bugaboos remain in the rock forever, or is there a way to take them out?
Why ?
Better to use two points of protection at all times as a back-up. If you have two bolts use them both!!! He's hanging on a cows tail from a single bolt ...
Damage the cable??!!!
What about the gawd damn rock!
its a fucking rock, lol. calm down.
I'm a noob how do u get ure cams etc back when u do a big wall climb or something
A follower.
Idk how I got here.
Lots of messing about..must take hours to get anywhere. I thought it was clip..then off u go
Wow talk about misinformation, between 40 and 70% of the range for cams? Try between 50 and 90. And the video doesn't even show it right, it shows like 50% and 30%. You clearly don't understand how cams work.
vientos sebas echale ganas te va a ir de huevos carnal!!!! nos vemos pronto!!!
If you are the lead climbing you will have a person climbing behind you cleaning up the protection (you'll be belaying from above). Then the follower will put the protection back on the lead climbers rack for the next pitch.
once the first climber makes his first pitch ascent, he sets an anchor point and belays for the second climber (who was his belayer) who cleans the route on the climb up to him.
My niggq that rope looks like a shoe lace
Nicely done.
i hope you been sarcastic .!!
なるほど、全然わかんない。
Never Put a sling into your belay loop for a personal anchor! Rope/sling/cordage goes through your dual loops and Metal only on the belay loop!
People! Stay away from this advice. Very far away!
Not to mention you're putting unnecessary wear on the chains by belaying off them.
Wth is booga booga titan
I can't believe people actually want to do this?? It is impressive, but also some the dumbest shit I have ever seen! And I fly for a living ha.
this is disgusting and i cant watch anymore.
Trusting your life to an anchor in rock is stupid
I find appalled by your commitment with bad craftsmanship
Y😅
I bet those anchors aren't cheap, and they get left in massive amounts on the way up a climb?? Rock climbing - another rich person hobby apparently.
"another rich person hobby apparently."
Don't worry then dude, it will never affect you.
None of this video makes any sense or insures safety.
Rock climbing has never made any sense to me, how it logically works, or how in the world of God it would be safe.
This entire video fully confirms that rock climbing is wildly dangerous, even laughably so.
How can people trust any of these methods?
Nonsense. I will never rock climb. Thank you and goodnight.
We don’t give a shit
nope,i will never do rock climbing.
This guy knows nothing about climbing.
This video is problematic. These are techniques that should be taught in person. While it is fine to demonstrate these techniques here, this video is advertised as a lesson when it should not be.
Other points:
-It appears that you are directly anchored to only one bolt
-Teach the safest possible technique (instead of the sliding x, show an equalized figure 8 using four locking biners)
-Alpine anchor doesn't belong in this lesson.
-Why did you use a head instead of a stopper in the alpine anchor?
While I see a lot of people pointing out all the problems with his instructions, as someone who knows literally nothing about climbing gear, I at least found this interesting to get an idea of what sorts of stuff is used for anchors
@Hassan Derrick what a scammer