A couple of decades of legal scuffles over mech designs you say. I wonder if any parallels between could be found in the history of Battletech as a game system. That's probably crazy talk.
Boy, that mech looks very, very familiar to a certain transforming fighter jet from a certain beloved Saturday morning anime but the updated designs fix things before another lawsuit hits, thank goodness!!
Best part of Btech was reading about how technology had declined so much after the Succession Wars that some planets had gotten down to just a few functional 'mechs. It wouldn't be too outlandish to be on a planet with a small protectorate defense force of cobbled together medium and light 'mechs, used vehicles and infantry, thus breeding the need for hiring merc units to help defend and fight off bandits. Somewhat of a Mad Max 3025 concept.... and the functional light mechs like the Stinger were a mainstay for minor fiefdoms that couldn't get protection from the major houses (Steiner, Kurita, etc.)
Whoa two unseen Macross mechs in a row?!? It’s like Christmas in July, but even better because it’s June! I’ve always wondered what it would be like to use one of these in a Mechwarrior game. Sadly I don’t think there’s too many missions where speed is more important than firepower.
Hello Grim. Although I originally started out playing Battletech with the original boxed set, which had the fold-over heavy paper Mechs that 'pinched' into a square slotted base, within a year I had purchased several Lance Packs as well as about a dozen or so single Mech 'blister packs'. I used a Robo-Tech Veritech Fighter model (a pose-able toy) as my template, and painted it with my preferred desert camouflage scheme with House Davion sigils. From there, I was able to barter for the painting services of a friend to paint 20 Metal Mech models for my 'army', since my painting skills were, and are, sub-par at best. Of those 20, at least half a dozen were Stinger, Wasp, and Locust Mechs. All of which I used extensively in battles at the Emperor's Headquarters with my Playing Group. Although most of my contemporaries favored heavier units, I tended to enjoy maneuvering extensive numbers of lighter units to devastating effect upon my foes. I 'coined' the phrase: "Speed Protects, Speed Kills". The meaning of which is that high speed makes it far harder to target and actually hit my units, and that by being so fast, I could almost always maneuver into the rear firing arcs of my opponents and do massive damage to the relatively thin armor there. Well before the 3050 and 3055 Technical Readouts, I was redesigning my Stinger, Wasp, and Locust Mechs to make them more efficient. When those readouts arrived upon the scene, I gladly incorporated the newly available Tech into my designs, increasing my units combat speeds, protection and weaponry. In another posting, I detailed my 'Locust' redesign. But I did not stop there. Both the Wasp and Stinger also felt my hand as I quested to 'perfect' their designs for use on the battlefield. One design I remember, somewhat accurately, was a Stinger that mounted a ER Large Laser, and a Pulse Medium Laser, if memory serves me. The design had both Ferro-FIberous Armor, Endo-Steel, and a XL-Fusion Engine. I maxed out the armor protecting the Mech, feeling justified in doing so with all the expensive 'new' Tech incorporated into the Mech's design. Inner Sphere Double Heat Sinks kept the resulting Mech quite cool, and I never had problems with it on the battlefield. Shortly after the 'mass banning' of my Locust design, about 3 months later if memory serves, I engaged in a battle where each side was allowed 300 tons of Mechs (305 in some cases, since a 'mere' 5 tons over was not considered an undue advantage). I agreed to play, and fielded a force comprise entirely of Locusts, Stingers, and Wasps. ALL of which were my redesigns, like the example above. Since my opponents were not using their own Light Mechs, I was able to borrow several to fill out my ranks, and field 15 units for each battle. Since I was not fielding a force of all one design, I was technically obeying the 'No more Locust swarms Frank!' 'rule' the Group imposed upon me. But, I still had far more Mechs than any of my opponents, and found it almost dead easy to maneuver around the 'Thunderfoots' I faced, to strike and penetrate their thin rear armor and devastate my target's internal structures and equipment. Thus forcing more than a few to eject from their Mechs before I cored their Engines and blew them into massive fireballs of Plasma. Although not 'happy' about my force, nor my success on the tabletops, the Group didn't raise a hue and cry about the force I fielded. Instead, taking their losses and finally admitting that 'swarm' tactics were useful in some instances. Yes, I 'lost' several Mechs in combat in each battle... but, overall, I overwhelmed my foes and 'won' the engagements without undue fuss, and without crowing about it across the table from them. Instead, I pointed out after the battles, how my opponents could have delayed their ends, and possibly have gotten more of their forces off the table and out of harm's way. Massive, slow Mechs are at a distinct dis-advantage facing such a swarm, and I pointed out as diplomatically as I could, that facing such a force imbalance was not a sound tactical method. Instead, a steady withdrawal, and maneuvering to shield each other's Mech was NOT a dishonorable method of keeping one's force intact, or relatively so. Ah, I miss those heady days of 30 to 35 years ago. Spoken Frank-ly
@@GrimDarkNarrator I apologize for such long postings. I sometimes get into what I am saying and forget the length of the posting until nearly the very end. But, on the other hand, I hope I've at least entertained you with some of my memories from so long ago.
Not the best mech for lance on lance engagements. But still one of my favorites. My old BT group used to runs recon specific scenarios where we could use only two light mechs or a lance of light to medium vehicles. You would be given two objectives to recon and had to make your way through enemy territory trying to avoid enemy vehicles or a light lance. We would usually do these scenarios as a precursor to a raid or assault scenario. Very challenging and fun.
One of the mechs that made it into Westwood's "Battletech, the Cresent Hawks Inception". To my knowledge the first Battletech video game. Still has the best MIDI theme song of all time. Do deet, do deet, do deet, do do deet do!
The Stinger and Wasp along with designs like the rifleman and the warhammer, the Archer along with others mechs and the mechs out of the Ostman Corp were all mostly Macross and Robotech designs. Wasps and Stingers were also the first to be converted to LAMs ( Land Air Mechs) which could transform from Mech, to Guardian and finally the Areospace fighter. these would reek havok in MWO. Ppl complain about the lights being Op now, OMG, hope these dont make it to MWO. that would be crazy!
I appreciate you swinging around to make sure the "Unchosen" get some love. Mechs are like dog or tools. You CAN have too many; some spouses out there will confirm that. But sometimes it's just what you needed in your life.
We've got most of the 'unseen mechs' in MWO yet we still do not have two of the more popular ones like the Wasp and Stinger. We got a walking trash can, but no stinger or wasp.
I love the Stinger! Along with the Pheonix Hawk and Wasp it gave me a major connection with RoboTech and the tabletop Battletech game making it feel like i was playing a military wargame simulation of RoboTech as it might be in the real world. I still remember one tabletop game where my lance was wiped out except for a lone one legged Stinger who stealthily hopped across the battlefield outwitting the enemy units who were hunting it down as i rolled dice roll after dice roll to see if my Stinger would hop a short distance without falling and taking possible fatal damage.And yes he did retreat successfully :D Thanks GrimDark Narrator for a excellent video on a much treasured battlemech. Have a great weekend :)
So are we not going to talk about why this dinner looks like something from super dimensional Fortress Macross no wonder Robotech launch lawsuits against BattleTech
for a mech dwveloped nearly 100 years after the Wasp, its realy goddamn slow... even if its mostly used as anti-infantey mech, 64kph is to slow for a light mech... realy cant sew why anyone would choose this over a Wasp even, let alone other lights
Ehm this design reminds me awfully VF-1 Valkyrie Robotech/Macross. Sorry mate, of all mechs in Battletech this one does not fly as a genuine design for the franchise. But keep up with the videos. ;)
The Wasp and Valkyrie were the VF-1S while the Stinger was the VF-1A. The Phoenix Hawk was a Super Veritech and the Crusader was the Armored Battloid. The early and most popular Battletech Mech designs were taken directly from Macross/Robotech designs, they even had the UN SPACY logo on them, direct copy. Rifleman = Defender Warhammer = Tomahawk Archer = Spartan Longbow = Phalanx Marauder = Glaug Officers Battlepod other designs like the Shadow Hawk and Battlemaster were taken from Dougram, another Japanese animation property. The lawsuit between FASA and Harmony Gold was looooong. Just look up Unseen on Sarna.net.
See, this is where a common misconception comes in; FASA didn't steal the design from MACROSS. Both companies got their designs from a third party developer, who sold the designs to both. With MACROSS being a Anime, and BT being a board game, most people didn't realize the same designs were being used for both, until the Mechwarrior games came out.(That's when people saw them first, and said 'hey, they stole this from MACROSS!). Even though HG used them first, they never Trade Marked the design. It wasn't until Robotech was released State side,(and hit it big) that HG went after FASA for the rights. That's when the lawsuits started flying. FASA actually won the first one, and then got greedy,(counter sued for the rights and money) and lost the rights for both the design and names. For the 'unseens ', MWO sued for the rights to the names, and were allowed to use them, as long as they made changes to the designs.
A couple of decades of legal scuffles over mech designs you say. I wonder if any parallels between could be found in the history of Battletech as a game system.
That's probably crazy talk.
Nah, you're surely mistaken!
Harmony Gold is more savage than any Clan or House.
Me whenever I see one of these mechs: "That thing's a Stinger right? Or Veritech? Or was it a Valkrye? Or maybe Jetfire??? Skyfire Perhaps?????"
🙃
Boy, that mech looks very, very familiar to a certain transforming fighter jet from a certain beloved Saturday morning anime but the updated designs fix things before another lawsuit hits, thank goodness!!
Best part of Btech was reading about how technology had declined so much after the Succession Wars that some planets had gotten down to just a few functional 'mechs. It wouldn't be too outlandish to be on a planet with a small protectorate defense force of cobbled together medium and light 'mechs, used vehicles and infantry, thus breeding the need for hiring merc units to help defend and fight off bandits. Somewhat of a Mad Max 3025 concept.... and the functional light mechs like the Stinger were a mainstay for minor fiefdoms that couldn't get protection from the major houses (Steiner, Kurita, etc.)
A good point for why they are so wide-spread.
Whoa two unseen Macross mechs in a row?!? It’s like Christmas in July, but even better because it’s June!
I’ve always wondered what it would be like to use one of these in a Mechwarrior game. Sadly I don’t think there’s too many missions where speed is more important than firepower.
If you have the hbs battletech game the stinger is available as a mod
Hello Grim.
Although I originally started out playing Battletech with the original boxed set, which had the fold-over heavy paper Mechs that 'pinched' into a square slotted base, within a year I had purchased several Lance Packs as well as about a dozen or so single Mech 'blister packs'.
I used a Robo-Tech Veritech Fighter model (a pose-able toy) as my template, and painted it with my preferred desert camouflage scheme with House Davion sigils. From there, I was able to barter for the painting services of a friend to paint 20 Metal Mech models for my 'army', since my painting skills were, and are, sub-par at best.
Of those 20, at least half a dozen were Stinger, Wasp, and Locust Mechs. All of which I used extensively in battles at the Emperor's Headquarters with my Playing Group.
Although most of my contemporaries favored heavier units, I tended to enjoy maneuvering extensive numbers of lighter units to devastating effect upon my foes. I 'coined' the phrase: "Speed Protects, Speed Kills". The meaning of which is that high speed makes it far harder to target and actually hit my units, and that by being so fast, I could almost always maneuver into the rear firing arcs of my opponents and do massive damage to the relatively thin armor there.
Well before the 3050 and 3055 Technical Readouts, I was redesigning my Stinger, Wasp, and Locust Mechs to make them more efficient. When those readouts arrived upon the scene, I gladly incorporated the newly available Tech into my designs, increasing my units combat speeds, protection and weaponry.
In another posting, I detailed my 'Locust' redesign. But I did not stop there. Both the Wasp and Stinger also felt my hand as I quested to 'perfect' their designs for use on the battlefield.
One design I remember, somewhat accurately, was a Stinger that mounted a ER Large Laser, and a Pulse Medium Laser, if memory serves me. The design had both Ferro-FIberous Armor, Endo-Steel, and a XL-Fusion Engine. I maxed out the armor protecting the Mech, feeling justified in doing so with all the expensive 'new' Tech incorporated into the Mech's design. Inner Sphere Double Heat Sinks kept the resulting Mech quite cool, and I never had problems with it on the battlefield.
Shortly after the 'mass banning' of my Locust design, about 3 months later if memory serves, I engaged in a battle where each side was allowed 300 tons of Mechs (305 in some cases, since a 'mere' 5 tons over was not considered an undue advantage). I agreed to play, and fielded a force comprise entirely of Locusts, Stingers, and Wasps. ALL of which were my redesigns, like the example above.
Since my opponents were not using their own Light Mechs, I was able to borrow several to fill out my ranks, and field 15 units for each battle.
Since I was not fielding a force of all one design, I was technically obeying the 'No more Locust swarms Frank!' 'rule' the Group imposed upon me. But, I still had far more Mechs than any of my opponents, and found it almost dead easy to maneuver around the 'Thunderfoots' I faced, to strike and penetrate their thin rear armor and devastate my target's internal structures and equipment. Thus forcing more than a few to eject from their Mechs before I cored their Engines and blew them into massive fireballs of Plasma.
Although not 'happy' about my force, nor my success on the tabletops, the Group didn't raise a hue and cry about the force I fielded. Instead, taking their losses and finally admitting that 'swarm' tactics were useful in some instances.
Yes, I 'lost' several Mechs in combat in each battle... but, overall, I overwhelmed my foes and 'won' the engagements without undue fuss, and without crowing about it across the table from them. Instead, I pointed out after the battles, how my opponents could have delayed their ends, and possibly have gotten more of their forces off the table and out of harm's way.
Massive, slow Mechs are at a distinct dis-advantage facing such a swarm, and I pointed out as diplomatically as I could, that facing such a force imbalance was not a sound tactical method. Instead, a steady withdrawal, and maneuvering to shield each other's Mech was NOT a dishonorable method of keeping one's force intact, or relatively so.
Ah, I miss those heady days of 30 to 35 years ago.
Spoken Frank-ly
Really appreciate the lengthy input :)
@@GrimDarkNarrator I apologize for such long postings. I sometimes get into what I am saying and forget the length of the posting until nearly the very end. But, on the other hand, I hope I've at least entertained you with some of my memories from so long ago.
Not the best mech for lance on lance engagements. But still one of my favorites. My old BT group used to runs recon specific scenarios where we could use only two light mechs or a lance of light to medium vehicles. You would be given two objectives to recon and had to make your way through enemy territory trying to avoid enemy vehicles or a light lance. We would usually do these scenarios as a precursor to a raid or assault scenario. Very challenging and fun.
Thanks for sharing.
Get rid of the MGs and their ammo, two ML and a Flamer. That's how I roll in 3025. In 3050, ES and more armor. 10 DHS with the same weapons load out.
Gotta love how the great "Harmony Gold vs literally everyone" legal war was included in the lore xD
One of the mechs that made it into Westwood's "Battletech, the Cresent Hawks Inception". To my knowledge the first Battletech video game. Still has the best MIDI theme song of all time. Do deet, do deet, do deet, do do deet do!
Westwood made a Battletech game?! That's one of the coolest crossovers ive never heard of
The Stinger and Wasp along with designs like the rifleman and the warhammer, the Archer along with others mechs and the mechs out of the Ostman Corp were all mostly Macross and Robotech designs. Wasps and Stingers were also the first to be converted to LAMs ( Land Air Mechs) which could transform from Mech, to Guardian and finally the Areospace fighter. these would reek havok in MWO. Ppl complain about the lights being Op now, OMG, hope these dont make it to MWO. that would be crazy!
Not a bad scout for probing enemy lines, especially if you expect infantry.
You can always step on them.
I appreciate you swinging around to make sure the "Unchosen" get some love. Mechs are like dog or tools. You CAN have too many; some spouses out there will confirm that. But sometimes it's just what you needed in your life.
My goal is to cover all the mechs there are, at least ones with a decent chunk of fluff.
We've got most of the 'unseen mechs' in MWO yet we still do not have two of the more popular ones like the Wasp and Stinger. We got a walking trash can, but no stinger or wasp.
Don't you talk shit about the blessed Urbie
Ben Dixon Approves!
I love the Stinger! Along with the Pheonix Hawk and Wasp it gave me a major connection with RoboTech and the tabletop Battletech game making it feel like i was playing a military wargame simulation of RoboTech as it might be in the real world. I still remember one tabletop game where my lance was wiped out except for a lone one legged Stinger who stealthily hopped across the battlefield outwitting the enemy units who were hunting it down as i rolled dice roll after dice roll to see if my Stinger would hop a short distance without falling and taking possible fatal damage.And yes he did retreat successfully :D
Thanks GrimDark Narrator for a excellent video on a much treasured battlemech. Have a great weekend :)
Thanks for the watch. Have a great day also!
Nice Mech the Stinger and if used a straight scout Mech teamed with slightly heavier scout Mech, they can reek havoc behind the enemy lines! :D
It is WREAK havoc, not "REEK" you low life moron
Send out a Stinger/Wasp/Osctroc/Raven team to do some good spotting for you and call in in the Catapults, Longbows, to lay in artillery :)
@@nonyabiznessses102 Chill... you're not grading papers tonight, Mr. Hand! :)
@@nonyabiznessses102 That's correct but no need to be insulting.
Still watching gdn videos from time to time even 3 years after they're posted.
That's very nice of you :)
I kinda wanna see the stinger in MechWarrior 5.
So are we not going to talk about why this dinner looks like something from super dimensional Fortress Macross no wonder Robotech launch lawsuits against BattleTech
the stinger is a great scout mech thanks for another great video
Thanks for watching.
Damn I love these videos.
Thanks.
Yay! Veritech 1J Alpha!
The tabletop rpg even kept the RDF insignia....on the boxtop. Seriously.
Wish some of these lores did more then just read a website I can read myself lol
Do you think the law suit thing was a joke about the harmony gold law suit?
I think it was a serious lawsuit.
Looks like a veritech
pretty cool!
I wonder if some decadent Steiner nobles use this as skeets and a Rifleman as a skeet "rifle" ;)
Flashman heavy mech?
I keep putting in polls but it doesn't win the vote, lol.
Possible 3 rd week mech.?. XD
Back when Battletech stole all of Robotechs mechs. Lol
Wait didn't the designer of said mechs sell the designs to both companies?
for a mech dwveloped nearly 100 years after the Wasp, its realy goddamn slow... even if its mostly used as anti-infantey mech, 64kph is to slow for a light mech... realy cant sew why anyone would choose this over a Wasp even, let alone other lights
That is indeed pretty slow for a light mech.
Ehm this design reminds me awfully VF-1 Valkyrie Robotech/Macross. Sorry mate, of all mechs in Battletech this one does not fly as a genuine design for the franchise. But keep up with the videos. ;)
A lot of designs in battle tech were taken from anime series such as Macross so it's not really surprising.
The Wasp and Valkyrie were the VF-1S while the Stinger was the VF-1A. The Phoenix Hawk was a Super Veritech and the Crusader was the Armored Battloid.
The early and most popular Battletech Mech designs were taken directly from Macross/Robotech designs, they even had the UN SPACY logo on them, direct copy.
Rifleman = Defender
Warhammer = Tomahawk
Archer = Spartan
Longbow = Phalanx
Marauder = Glaug Officers Battlepod
other designs like the Shadow Hawk and Battlemaster were taken from Dougram, another Japanese animation property. The lawsuit between FASA and Harmony Gold was looooong. Just look up Unseen on Sarna.net.
See, this is where a common misconception comes in; FASA didn't steal the design from MACROSS. Both companies got their designs from a third party developer, who sold the designs to both. With MACROSS being a Anime, and BT being a board game, most people didn't realize the same designs were being used for both, until the Mechwarrior games came out.(That's when people saw them first, and said 'hey, they stole this from MACROSS!). Even though HG used them first, they never Trade Marked the design. It wasn't until Robotech was released State side,(and hit it big) that HG went after FASA for the rights. That's when the lawsuits started flying. FASA actually won the first one, and then got greedy,(counter sued for the rights and money) and lost the rights for both the design and names. For the 'unseens ', MWO sued for the rights to the names, and were allowed to use them, as long as they made changes to the designs.
@@gregdomenico1891 Esentially since late 90s HG is acting like a desperate copyright troll.
Best way to understand is go to sarna.net and search for Unseen.
What Mech is that in the thumbnail?
It's a Stinger, or supposed to be.