I've always heard if anything is to match up, always make sure it's the floor of the intake with the floor of the head. Also sometimes using different thickness intake gaskets can get you a good floor alignment without having to machine the intake. Sometimes.
Love your videos.... So much knowledge. Its funny.. Every time you say.... "anyway"... You sound exactly like steve morris. I think he says "anyways".. Seems like great minds sound alike too....
I just did a 283 last week where I had to mill .075" to get the intake to line up but I milled it off the head that way if the customer wanted to swap intakes in the future his was untouched and he could sell it and not have to have his new intake milled.
Another great video! You gotta stop worrying about what you say. Even when you go on, there’s still a lot of what you say that makes sense! I just did an upper engine replacement, and I used the Prussian Blue to at least make it all match. I probably spent more time making my new headers match by finishing my ports to flow as smoothly as I possibly could. I grounded out the header flanges as much as I possibly could, ( they’re a set of Schoenfeld’s that I had to delete my AC box over, to get them on my car) cause I only put a few miles on my car a year. I may not drive it a lot, but everything I do makes it faster! I’d love to work on a race car, either drag or circle track! I’m just someone who missed out on an opportunity, but still has the drive. Your videos are definitely giving me something to inspire me to make even more power!! Keep it up!!
I've gone "milling crazy" on far too many builds. I've had to mill the ends on my Ford engines after milling the heads and the deck. Damn was it a PITA!
Great topic Eric. The first engine I built had the block just barely decked and brand new edelbrock heads. The manifold still sat too high! I didn't know to check but I can see it looking in the plenum. I can't wait to swap intakes to my custom and milled so the ports match up. The roof steps down and the floor steps down from the intake to the head. I'm hoping it's the reason that power nosed over hard at 4800.
I'm dealing with this problem right now except it's a mostly stock application. I'm building a ford 390 & I spacificly told the shop to leave the piston .010 down in the hole & he didn't listen & cut the deck down to 0. So now it's approximately 10.135 deck hight. From 10.17. The crankshaft grinding was a nightmare also. First I didn't have enuf clearance so I needed .001 off the rods. He couldn't get it so I told him go the next size under , witch would be .040 under from were we were. He admittedly screwed it up so I said go the next size under that. Witch is .060 under. He gave it back & I still only have .0015 bearing clearance & from the front journal to the back journal I have .010 different stroke on it. And on # 1 cyl. It's. 003 out of the hole & on #8 cyl. I have .011 out of the hole! I'm thinking of just getting a different crank & starting over with a new shop. But still have to fit the intake. Its a nightmare just becouse of the machine work!
I have edelbrok 2970 which has square ports matched to 1206 gasket. I recently bought AFR 245’s and these ports are oval. The port alignment is fine top/ bottom and side to side however the the head oval port corners are exposed since a square intake port will not match an oval port. How much HP you think in losing from the head corners obstructing flow?
Eric, Have you flowed a head with the intake manifold attached and have you seen a reduction in flow? Have there been distribution issues if you tried the Dykem wet flow testing with the intake attached? I've long thought that an intake, especially a dual plane, had a greater effect on flow / distribution than what many think. RE: A port can be ground to flow using clay as a head port radius but that does not = what it will flow with an intake.
I believe he speaks of this in another video. I will tell you from experience that yes there was reduction. On my 93 Cobra #5 lower intake runner makes a nasty turn. All other runners follow yet the bends lessen the further from the distributor. 20 years later I've gone with an individual throttle body system and thats how I achieved the best flow through an intake and cylinder head. I had a lot of time on my hands in my 20a.
Is your mock-up block at standard deck height? It also seems like you’d need to know the head gasket thickness if it was extremely thin or thick relative to standard. I’m guessing most race builds would have the block decked a bit. How much before it’s an issue?
@@robtdougherty Thanks. I was just thinking in a situation where you had to deal with the china wall, distributor spacing and everything else that could cause misalignment by milling, seemed that filling and then porting the epoxy would be easier all around.
@@WeingartnerRacing I had a set of bb3 done by RFD and the engine builder checked them and he had to take off .007” to get them flat and the intake bolt holes had to be slotted besides the holes were miss aligned..I was just thinking when lowering the manifold would be the same concept..
@@WeingartnerRacing Can't you just skip the gasket altogether and just o-ring the intake? Get a better seal. Another question, if it bottoms out, can you mill the top of the block on both ends?
@@xlr8r3VA To "O-ring" the intake would of course work, but would be cost prohibitive. The sealing faces would have to be very true, and the grooves are an extra machining process. That's why you see it more on molded plastic intakes, like the LS.
You are so right about the ford intakes. The aftermarket hates ford , and has always tried to booby trap us ford guys. You Chevy guys have it so easy. Lol
I've always heard if anything is to match up, always make sure it's the floor of the intake with the floor of the head.
Also sometimes using different thickness intake gaskets can get you a good floor alignment without having to machine the intake. Sometimes.
Love your videos.... So much knowledge. Its funny.. Every time you say.... "anyway"... You sound exactly like steve morris. I think he says "anyways".. Seems like great minds sound alike too....
Its a virus I guess wading through head porters land ....waiting for the vaccines. 😁
Ide love to have a living library for a boss like you, so much you can learn
Top video Eric! It would be nice video if you show us how you do the plenum in those clover leaf manifolds.Nice work.
I just did a 283 last week where I had to mill .075" to get the intake to line up but I milled it off the head that way if the customer wanted to swap intakes in the future his was untouched and he could sell it and not have to have his new intake milled.
My funnel web manifold on my Canfield heads were just the opposite of this. I had to use ,120 manifold gaskets to bring the manifold up.
Another great video! You gotta stop worrying about what you say. Even when you go on, there’s still a lot of what you say that makes sense! I just did an upper engine replacement, and I used the Prussian Blue to at least make it all match. I probably spent more time making my new headers match by finishing my ports to flow as smoothly as I possibly could. I grounded out the header flanges as much as I possibly could, ( they’re a set of Schoenfeld’s that I had to delete my AC box over, to get them on my car) cause I only put a few miles on my car a year. I may not drive it a lot, but everything I do makes it faster! I’d love to work on a race car, either drag or circle track! I’m just someone who missed out on an opportunity, but still has the drive. Your videos are definitely giving me something to inspire me to make even more power!! Keep it up!!
I've gone "milling crazy" on far too many builds. I've had to mill the ends on my Ford engines after milling the heads and the deck. Damn was it a PITA!
Great topic Eric. The first engine I built had the block just barely decked and brand new edelbrock heads. The manifold still sat too high! I didn't know to check but I can see it looking in the plenum. I can't wait to swap intakes to my custom and milled so the ports match up. The roof steps down and the floor steps down from the intake to the head. I'm hoping it's the reason that power nosed over hard at 4800.
Thanks for the video. I appreciate the SBF information
Great tip! So many home guys just hog both sides out to gasket size. There is uch more to doing it right 👍
Frieberger following :)
Could you by chance have a Chevy 4.3 head to test on I’m wanting to port mine and I’d love to see how they preform
I'm dealing with this problem right now except it's a mostly stock application. I'm building a ford 390 & I spacificly told the shop to leave the piston .010 down in the hole & he didn't listen & cut the deck down to 0. So now it's approximately 10.135 deck hight. From 10.17. The crankshaft grinding was a nightmare also. First I didn't have enuf clearance so I needed .001 off the rods. He couldn't get it so I told him go the next size under , witch would be .040 under from were we were. He admittedly screwed it up so I said go the next size under that. Witch is .060 under. He gave it back & I still only have .0015 bearing clearance & from the front journal to the back journal I have .010 different stroke on it. And on # 1 cyl. It's. 003 out of the hole & on #8 cyl. I have .011 out of the hole! I'm thinking of just getting a different crank & starting over with a new shop. But still have to fit the intake. Its a nightmare just becouse of the machine work!
Do you also cut the bottom inside (intake ribbs and port runners) of the intake? Ronnie.
Eric, What kind of valley tray is going on the SBF???????
I have edelbrok 2970 which has square ports matched to 1206 gasket. I recently bought AFR 245’s and these ports are oval. The port alignment is fine top/ bottom and side to side however the the head oval port corners are exposed since a square intake port will not match an oval port. How much HP you think in losing from the head corners obstructing flow?
Does the customer’s engine block deck height play a factor in the amount of milling required?
Eric, Have you flowed a head with the intake manifold attached and have you seen a reduction in flow? Have there been distribution issues if you tried the Dykem wet flow testing with the intake attached? I've long thought that an intake, especially a dual plane, had a greater effect on flow / distribution than what many think. RE: A port can be ground to flow using clay as a head port radius but that does not = what it will flow with an intake.
I believe he speaks of this in another video. I will tell you from experience that yes there was reduction. On my 93 Cobra #5 lower intake runner makes a nasty turn. All other runners follow yet the bends lessen the further from the distributor. 20 years later I've gone with an individual throttle body system and thats how I achieved the best flow through an intake and cylinder head. I had a lot of time on my hands in my 20a.
I your opinion, What the best SBF head out there for a big cub inch small block with a procharger. 430-460 ci 9.5 deck block
Is your mock-up block at standard deck height? It also seems like you’d need to know the head gasket thickness if it was extremely thin or thick relative to standard. I’m guessing most race builds would have the block decked a bit. How much before it’s an issue?
Awesome 👍👍
Thanks for sharing 👍
hi thanks for sharing
Could you add epoxy rather than milling? Would it stick?
It would be faster and safer to mill. Makes the ports more true then epoxy ever could
@@robtdougherty Thanks. I was just thinking in a situation where you had to deal with the china wall, distributor spacing and everything else that could cause misalignment by milling, seemed that filling and then porting the epoxy would be easier all around.
If you lower it on a Chevy won’t the manifold bolts be offline with the head hole
Most are slotted or oversized from the factory so no big deal.
@@WeingartnerRacing I had a set of bb3 done by RFD and the engine builder checked them and he had to take off .007” to get them flat and the intake bolt holes had to be slotted besides the holes were miss aligned..I was just thinking when lowering the manifold would be the same concept..
@@WeingartnerRacing p.s. I watch every video…you give away a lot of secrets 👀
Odds are, if your ports are too tall, your bolt holes will be tall too.
If it was close couldn't you just use a thinner intake gasket?
Yes but often its not possible because they don’t make thinner gasket.
@@WeingartnerRacing Can't you just skip the gasket altogether and just o-ring the intake? Get a better seal. Another question, if it bottoms out, can you mill the top of the block on both ends?
@@xlr8r3VA To "O-ring" the intake would of course work, but would be cost prohibitive. The sealing faces would have to be very true, and the grooves are an extra machining process. That's why you see it more on molded plastic intakes, like the LS.
👍
You are so right about the ford intakes. The aftermarket hates ford , and has always tried to booby trap us ford guys. You Chevy guys have it so easy. Lol
I'm aware of this.. My engine builder showed me the exact same thing on my motor