Oh No! Fake Stereo!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 มิ.ย. 2024
- What is fake stereo and how can you fight back?
Here is our first video on fake stereo; • BEWARE! Fake Stereo V...
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My impression of the difference was the imitation stereo sounded like the record player was playing inside a metal trash can. Had a tinny effect. Not terrible, but not as "rich" sounding as the mono recording. Definitively something to keep in mind when record hunting.
😅
Over the speaker, that’s exactly the effect that you hear. The real problem, though is when using headphones. Then, fake stereo mixes are unlistenable.
Capitol Records were notorious for fake stereo in the 60s and early 70s, especially with some Beach Boys recordings, which they called DUOPHONIC.
I have one Duophonic album. "The Late Late Show" by Dakota Staton. It sounds to me as if it were playing outdoors.
SOME Beach Boys albums? 😆 try all the “Stereo” versions of the albums from 1962-1967 (“Surfin’ Safari” to “Smiley Smile”)!
That's exactlly what I thought of.
Try listening to a Duophonic record wearing headphones. Sheer terror.
Record ology you do a awesome job at explaining fake steereo Records my friend
Most times I don't like fake stereo, but the fake stereo of Dr Robert on the Beatles Yesterday and Today album is the best version.
That was Capitol Records with their Duophonic. I don't know why they would do that, because Doctor Robert was recorded by EMI London in true stereo, and was released on the Revolver album in stereo.
Columbia Records did this as well. They didn’t record in stereo until 1959. So anything recorded prior to that was reprocessed for stereo. They didn’t sound bad though.
Columbia had the best fake stereo.
When I started listening to vintage jazz from the 20's and 30's as a kid, there were quite a few reprocessed LP's available, some released by MCA. These were mostly awful, but would sometimes include both reprocessed and mono transfers on one LP. I had one where the out of phase trick had been botched, leaving one track unlistenable. I soon figured out which labels to avoid and to search out the smaller independent labels that were doing the work properly. Unfortunately, over processing and reverb still existed on some CD re-issues. I soon figured out that the best sound was to be had from good quality 78 pressings played on high quality equipment. Those Bluebird LP reissues, while good, do not have the sound quality of the originals. But of course some 78 pressings are very scarce and one's only alternative is a good CD reissue done by people with the necessary expertise and dedication.
I have some old jazz on CD. To help it sound better in my car I used just a slight different reverb on each channel using my computer and Audacity. No phase shifting. Its still mono but sounds better on car audio systems. Not needed on home stereo. Mono sounds best to me played on one big speaker.
One process for 'stereo emulation' was to feed the mono signal through a device similar to the crossover network of a speaker, to separate the higher and lower frequencies into channels, as you demonstrated in the video. But it goes a bit further. Both high/low channels are partially blended back together; so that one channel would be primarily higher frequencies but some elements from the low frequency channel, and vice-versa on the other. Depending on the instruments and type of music, you would adjust the rolloff frequency when initially splitting the audio.
If you initially split the frequencies into multiple ranges, you can create multiple channels and blend them in various proportions before blending down to two final output channels. Those old eight-track reel-to-reel machines (not talkin about the cartridge system!) were ideal for this.
Add a teensy bit of echo or delay to the audio - either to both channels simultaneously at the final output, or to each individual channel and cross-blend, and you can get a fairly convincing stereo effect from mono. Or you can make a muddled, horrible mess, if your engineer is an amateur..
The latter was probably the case in that old record I had of a Rowan and Martin performance, originally recorded a few years before they hosted Laugh-In. Just a horrible, echo-ey, hot mess with WAY too much reverb; it didn't even sound good if heard in mono. It might have been a bootleg.
Thanks for keeping the "record" in Record-ology!
You bet!
Rolofone issued a 78 RPM box set of 5 discs (10 Tracks) of Glenn Miller hits recorded from the original metal masters. The tracks sound awesome, and are on modern 78s.
KRCC is the public radio station in Colorado Springs...the record was issued in 1980, and the date on front is usually the date they got the record.
Fake stereo, Reprocessed, Duophonic...whatever the branding they want to call it, was just a way to revitalize old mono records for newer stereo systems. Even in the 90's, there was simulated surround that sort of did the same thing digitally. I was intrugued by it before but it gets tiring after a while.
Also depends on the effect intended like on "I Am The Walrus" where they didn't have the technology to sync the radio recordings with the mixed track, but now they do. But the effect of the out of phase sounds either dreamy or eerie.
On the similar vein of Glenn Miller music, the 1956 Universal movie soundtrack that was released originally in mono, was released in stereo about a year or so later. Oddly enough, some sections of songs would be true stereo and then cut into fake stereo. Not really sure why, but with the master tapes probably gone by now, we'll probably never find out.
Hehe, I think we as kids all did the same thing, either yell or sing into the fan or experienced sticking our heads in metal garbage cans, since that's how most explain the fake stereo sound.
Great video. I first started buying records as a kid in the '70s and learned that the five most frightening words in the English language were "Electronically Reprocessed to Simulate Stereo." The sixth was "Dynaflex."
I have a huge collection of those Bluebird double LPs of many artists and big bands in unplayed mint condition. About 15 years ago, my friend George knew a guy who used to own a record store, shut it down and moved the inventory to his house, and then he wanted to clear it out to build a game room, so he was having an everything-must-go sale. He had about three boxes full of those. I told him I'd love to buy them all, but I couldn't afford them. He asked, "How much do you have on you?" I said, "About $70." He said, "Sold!"
BTW, Laura's late dad, Bill Ainsworth, was a great big band musician who didn't play for Glenn Miller (too early), but was involved with a lot of his disciples. He played with Tex Beneke and Ray McKinley's bands and was alto sax/clarinet player and arranger of Jerry Gray's Venetian Room Orchestra in Dallas. That's why she makes the kind of music she does.
Amazing! Thank you for sharing my friend!
Dynaflex actually sound good because they were made with superior vinyl. 180 gram vinyl is a sales gimmick that has nothing to do with improved sound.
'Fake stereo' reared it's ugly head in the late 70s/ early 80s when HBO went mainstream and was offering an FM stereo simulcast service delivered via coaxial cable into the subscriber's FM receiver and the cable companies called that 'Cable stereo,' a total gimmick as it was at the time. Then again as MTS was rolled out for television audio in the mid 80s, most stations and networks would present the audio from originally monophonic TV programmes in simulated stereo. That is until and over time, more and more original programming was being produced with real stereo audio.
You can still get surprisingly good results playing one of these through a preamp or receiver that has a “Mono” button on it. Just engage it before playback, and you’ve got usually a nice sound, similar to the true mono original. I have a Buddy Holly collection in fake stereo that sounds so much better in mono.
It allowed "big record" companies to charge Stereo prices for Mono material.
As a child of the 60s, I am well aware of fake stereo. In the UK there was a lack of stereo records when the "Family Music Center (stereo) came out to replace the Radiogram, and the thirst for stereo records was enormous. Most normal stereos were not very Hi-Fi and the money spent on the system demanded having something to play on it. That is how and why it was popular. From today's perspective where most people listen on phones built-in speakers and rarely listen to Quality audio, it must seem strange but it was a thing of its time. Imagine having a PlayStation 5 and only 1 game. So the old games have to be used. Obviously, they would try to "Make it better" for the new machine otherwise there is no reason to buy.
And to think i was wondering when i bought my latest Quadraphonic Edison cylinder.
lol
Fake stereo was a “phase” we went through😂….the best one I heard was Pink Floyd’s “Arnold Layne” on the Works CD.
Love watching all your videos my friend hope all is well with you
I am doing great thank you! 🙏🏻
I definitely noticed it. Like other comments have said, it has a tinny sound. I even noticed it watching on my phone.
The Shadows 30 golden greats from the mid 70s sounds pretty good in all its electronically processed stereo glory..
An entry level/ mid tier fairly affordable system has caught my eye.. the Andover Audio Spindeck 2 and Spinbase system. Have you every heard of this and if so any thoughts on it or an upcoming video? Thanks
They did the same to thensoundtracks of old 30s and 40 mono movies.
Thank you for your grat video. I am literally from the 40s and collecting since then in Argentina. I have some fases and seems recordad in a metal box. Cheers from frozen Patagonia
I have a few Elvis Presley reissues I bought in the late 1970's/early 1980's with "reprocessed from monophonic" effects.
LPM: Long playing Popular Music The LPM designation was used years before Stereo came out (circa 1958). RCA was late to making LPs due to the infamous "War of the Speeds", circa 1951. Columbia made the formal announcement for the "Lp" record mid 1948.
Record ology your glen miller Record is awesome my friend
Glenn Miller was quite excellent! Very cool video! ✌️❤️🙂
Glad you enjoyed it
you can use a software to extract audio stems from a mono track then pan the instruments left and right to make it sound in stereo.
The Glen Miller lp at 7:15 appears to have been from the music library of KRCC, Colorado College, Colorado Springs, CO. Most radio stations received promotional copies directly from the manufacturer.
The worst example of fake stereo in my collection is "The Kinks Greatest Hits" on Reprise, 1966. The frequency response has been altered, with a dominant use of reverb that makes it sould like it was recorded in a gymnasium.
The only fake Stereo albums that I have ever run across were albums by The Beach Boys, The DuoPhonic releases. And, one by The Dave Clark Five (“Coast To Coast” on Epic Records).
i LOVE Gleen Miller i am not a fan of fake stereo but if that all you can find i sstell love it.
Hey buddy I don't really care one way or the other I definitely could hear it on the Pennsylvania 65000 song the reverb was crazy micro personal feeling is why I have fake stereo when you can have real stereo just a side note i did have that exact record player in my room that you were demoing for a while I have since upgraded to the crosley portfolio beetle submarine for my room and the Insignia turntable I got rid of my Crossley T400 cause the automatic stopped working so far great decision sometimes the needle doesn't drop down right away but thanks to your channel I know that that will take care of itself so thanks for the video hope everything's going great it was great to see Lorraine again in your video I don't know how you ended up with her but it's cool
Concerning fake/simulated stereo, I don't have a problem with it as long as it is clearly indicated on the album cover (regardless of the format). In that case, it is a case of let the buyer beware. I'd also like to see a return to the SPARS Code (indicating the recording, mixing, and mastering) for all formats (not just digital formats).
The modern version is Spatial/Atmos versions of albums that did not have a quadraphonic mix. They can now use the Peter Jackson software to create individual tracks and mix for stereo, but that would be like colorizing Citizen Kane.
If you want to hear terrible sounding fake stereo, one of the best examples are the early Capitol Beatles LPs.
On the fake stereo: I can definitely hear an echo when they shout "Pennsylvania 6-5000!"
Some of my Sinatra records are fake stereo but they sound good to me. I don't have any true mono records as yet, I'm wondering if the music will come from one speaker?
You will get identical mono sound from both speakers.
Mono records would have duplicate channels so sound would come from both sides
The Beach Boys had Duophonic recordings.
The origin of fake stereo is more complicated than what you discussed. The vintage equipment when stereo was coming out mostly had a stereo and mono switch because the modern equipment of the time automatically made a stereophonic effect with the sound so they had the switch to correct the imperfection of playing a mono record on a stereo unit in preservation of being able to provide reverse compatability. Later on in the late 60s to 70s, they came up with the electronically reprocessing to simulate stereo when cheaper stereo units that didn't have the stereo to mono switch so instead of confusing the matrix stereo they changed the format in order to try and give the recording a better sound so when the matrix picked up the stereo it wouldn't reprocess it again. Unfortunately as equipment became more modern, these records did become more obsolete with the more modern stereo where each channel was truly separated which makes the sound more distinct to the reprocessing. If you played these records on a more vintage stereo, it would sound more true to sound of the original, but slightly better without the tinnyness of the 78 player. I have an older stereo which has the technology of a stereo matrix, on true stereo records, you can hear if you adjust the balance to left or right a ghost effect of the opposite channel. If you keep the balance in the middle, you will not hear the carryover to the opposite channel especially at higher volume. Only when isolated it is more distinct.
Atlantic did it too i have a best of Wilson Pickett album that its stimulated stereo
My mixer has mono button I use and it sounds mostly normal.
But when you're not lucky, you hear the metallic reverb, where the original had a dry sound.
Interesting 👋🏼
For me I prefer the mono. Lately I have been heavily into the Beatles And I have a few of their albums in both the reprocessed stereo and the mono does sound a lot better and you can tell many differences especially in the Sergeant Pepper album. But sadly their mono albums are very expensive to purchase in good condition
What I don't like about Beatles stereo is the vocals are all in one channel (can't recall which side)
Years ago, I heard a segment on NPR that said some of the Duke Ellington from the 1930's that were "stereo." Apparently, they had two microphones that were separated by several yards. One mike had the Duke's piano front and center. The other mike had the piano farther off. You put them together, and you had "stereo."
They had two microphones to get two sets of masters. This would make it easier to produce discs at an increased rate.
Before tape came along, they used to simultaneously record several discs in order to be able to reproduce more copies of the records. The Duke Ellington selections are actually the same performance from 2 different machines recording that performance. Someone figured out they could use the 2 discs, which were slightly different due to the microphones placements, and generate a stereo track. Stereo wasn’t the goal here, but they wound up creating accidental stereo. It sounds pretty good as well.
On the first record you played I heard some “reverb” on it. on the second record, the reverb is more pronounced
It depends on the genre of music. Jazz and classical I am pretty much wanting it to sound as it was recorded as it is the most noticeable when someone adds stereo effect (also early electronic enhanced records sounded pretty wretched)
Rock and folk I can usually deal with enhanced stereo as most of the popular recordings were mixed bizarrely in stereo, so pick your poison there.
I have actually created some fake stereo recordings of mono recordings and as long as I was subtle about how out of phase I made the recordings and how much low and high pass I added to the left and right channel.
In the case of the second Glenn Miller album you played, so much echo was added to that it sounds like it was recorded in a bathroom. I have a Duophonic Paul Whiteman plays Rhapsody in Blue and it is pretty bad, however that one dates back to 1965 when the engineers tended to be pretty heavy handed with the enhancements.
Technology has moved on though. I've been remastering some of my own 70s studio recordings which were mono and, using AI deconstruction techniques, you can split mono recordings into various instruments (stems), such as vocals, percussion, bass and other instruments. You can then "pan" instruments left and right, and add spatial effects as well as EQ them and add effects if desired. The overall effect can be quite startling and is certainly "true" stereo in the basic sense. However, the manipulation of recordings in this way might not be for the purists! But the old "fake" stereo was certainly not good at all.
That was interesting. I feel like the fake stereo has too much reverb. I have a question for you and maybe you can do an episode about it. I have Quadraphonic albums that just do not sound right with a normal stereo cartridge. Certain instruments end up sounding like they are a zillion miles away. Is there anything that can be done about that?
That’s a great question! I actually thought that they were designed to be fully backwards compatible… Unfortunately, unfortunately I have not had a chance to play with it myself. If you find out, let me know!
@@Recordology I was using a 95e stylus to listen to them. I wonder if that made a difference?
The mono I preferred,the fake stereo sounded terrible
i do have few Elvis Presley's lps like that i do like them from time to time but i like the mono though.
hi they kind of did this with stereo to get quad my mate has alot of quad they don't sound great
The most bizarre way I've ever heard fake stereo added is "Orbiting With Roy Orbison And Bristow Hopper." It was a Design Records (budget label) release. You have got to hear the fake stereo version of this album! They took 4 of his Sun records songs and overdubbed tambourine and ACCORDION for the right-hand channel and the original recording was crammed onto the left. The worst is in a song called "Domino." It sounds totally wack. The accordion doesn't even match the style of music, is poorly played and just squaks away out of one side. It's nuts! But you have to hear it.
I'm wondering if it's possible nowadays using ai technology to turn mono recordings into "true" stereo 🤔. Just a thought.
Possibly!
Yes it is. Eric Records has been reissuing mono oldies compilations in stereo for years. Some tracks sound very good, others, not so much.
And the Beatles recent reissues are using a form of AI, which Peter Jackson calls machine learning. That’s basically what AI is.
I have a Benny Goodman in concert in mono record. It’s easy to forget it’s mono due to the standard of playing. Some good Glenn Miller records should stay in mono. Being lucky to hear a big band in concert it’s easy to over look the sheer joy and energy that to be honest can’t be given in any record. I guess a better effect can now be done with AI processing similar to recent Beatles recordings.
Agreed.
Record ology your Records colection and your CDS colection is awesome my friend
Personally, I like mono records better. However, there are some with special effects which sound good in stereo. I have some quad disks but no demultiplexers to decode them.
I only have 2 glenn miller records an d one benny goodman record, all are in simulated/ electronic stereo, it doesn’t bother me at all, sound like they’re playing in a small hall, like the ‘surround modes’ you got on your home theatre receiver 20 years ago.
If you hate the effect, just flip the switch to mono on your amplifier.
But maybe the real die-hard collectors say that the damage is already done when the made the record, well I don’t know, it doesn’t bother me at least. To my ears the ‘30/‘40 recording quality isn’t superb to begin with, it’s not a modern Diana Krall recording.
"Mono reprocessed for stereo" digitally remastered is probably worse.
Really most people in 1959 were probably using a console type player the speakers were all close together and probably sounded somewhat better. But pressing the mono button on a mono reprocessed for stereo doesn't fix it
I hate fake stereo with a passion except Love Me Do by The Beatles, and I mean the version available PRIOR to the recent AI remix.
If you really want to show us what fake stereo sounds like, you should connect the player by cable. It's impossible to get an proper perception when the sound must pass through your room and then into two microphones.
Hi i'm viatron from Sheffield, when the 60s decade when FAKE STEREO! was king at the time via The Beatles released the very first debut album back in 1962 known as 'Please Please Me' on good old single channel MONO what located on the top right hand corner of the original album released by Parlophone. But illegally making it as FAKE STEREO! was a very suspicious in a way & it weren't real with the reissued versions including the wasn't any true stereo recording equipment in existenc. When listening to the FAKE STEREO! version of 'Please Please Me' by 'The Beatles' via listening first through the left hand speaker (cut the right speaker) you only listen to the vocals of all four members while listening second through the right speaker (cut the left speaker) you only listen to the musical instruments via the vocals of the four members are very faintly echoed in a very strange way & that how to fool the vinyl l.p. & single listers & that's a very serious WARNING! to all record collectors. Thank you for your co-operation on this very disturbing musical subject from David Viatron Esquire of crookes in Sheffield. We all need proper stereo recordings in dual speaker stereo.
Not a fan. A lot of the reprocessing involved comb filters, too, where all up and down the spectrum, and octave was set to the left while the next was set to the right. It was supposed to "steer" instruments one place or another but they jumped back and forth and often you just couldn't place where the instrument even was.
Another option was throwing one channel out of phase, which was TERRIBLE because as the two channels mixed in a room certain frequencies would get canceled out, especially the bass.
Today we have DSPs that can actually isolate and position instruments out of mono recordings into a new stereo soundstage. The results can be extremely convincing, and I'd love to see a lot of these old recordings go through something like that.
One thing i never understood.In 1959 the 1st Connie Francis ES was the stereo 45 MGM SK 50133-AMONG MY SOUVENIRS/GOD BLESS AMERICA.While God bless America is true stereo[vocal on the right channel[as with the mono both voices on each channel]. As MGM had the true stereo of Among my souvenirs, why on earth didn't they release it on this release and further releases. The same goes for other tracks.The 1st LP to feature ES on her is the MORE GREATEST HITS MGM E/SE 3492...Some of the tracks are in ES form...while they had the original true stereo ones.We never got to hear true stereo of the tracks either .MGM brought in Stereo in 1958,, and Who's Sorry Now? etc is the only tracks that were recorded in mono[2nd October 1957]. You could do a part 2 to this vid explaining why did the record industry do this to already true stereo tracks...and i think it was not only MGM but other labels as well.
Glenn Miller? RCA Victor's biggest seller pre-Elvis...making money for the conglomerate long after Major Alton G. Miller met his maker in the English Channel.
Was never a fan regardless of which label had the release, although some were better than others. What would drive me nuts were (especially RCA/Camden) albums that said they were 'Electronically Reprocessed' but were actually a mixture of real & fake stereo. As I'm a classic country fan RCA was the worse offender. Overall I'd rather have a mono release over the fake stuff.
Should be monstereo...
I like that!
My dad had an album by the *Morgan James Duo* which I decided to purchase. Originally released on Philips, I chose the later Fontana release as it was the one he had. I had no idea this later release would be the dreaded fake stereo, with a muffled left channel and a shrill right channel. Totally unlistenable on headphones!
th-cam.com/video/SMAOWA-omo8/w-d-xo.html
The other one in my collection is *Südamerikanische Rhythmen* which featured the ever-popular Techmoan puppet theme. I was foolish enough to buy the one with the stereo sticker on the label, because there is just no way a song from the 50s could be in stereo. Playing it in mono just leaves you hearing an annoying delay echo effect.
th-cam.com/video/f55M5woMzYQ/w-d-xo.html
Interesting!
The new Beatles fake stereo is more convincing. But still...fake.
Watching this, man, I had to start skipping ahead... I, uh, don't care much about about Glenn Miller, and that is all you have in this pile?
Back when I was kid in the early and mid 80s, I used to muck about with my father's old stereo reel to reel deck, which let you record left and right separately. Sometimes I would record the same song twice, left, then right, trying to get the speeds to line up but never could quite - and these were often stereo tracks to begin with. I was just messing around. So you had that fake expanded stereo effect from out of phase between the two channels. Sometimes it sounded horrible, sometimes it actually sounded pretty good, it really depended on the music and the beat and just how out of phase it was. I probably still have a tape full of those experiments around somewhere.
Then in the mid to late 80s when people started dumping their LPs for CDs, I hit the Goodwill for 60 cent records. At one point I got Calypso, by Harry Belafonte. That's the one that had his most remembered song, Day-O on it, but it was a later re-issue that had been reprocessed into stereo. Listening to it, I IMMEDIATELY got what they did. I always suspected they did something extra on top of phase shift though. Back in the 2000s I went and digitized many tracks from my record collection, pretty much recording the songs that had made it onto my numerous cassette mix tapes over to the computer. So three tracks off that LP got so recorded, and I still have those transfers. Of course I did Day-O and Jamaica Farewell, and then the "sequel" to Day-O, "Star-O" all with their fake stereo on display. Just cued them up and plugged in my headphones. Listened to your video examples. Then played my three songs. Your examples sound dull and lifeless. The Belafonte tracks on the other hand, sound... well like it was recorded in like a handball court or something, but with a vibrant stereo effect. I liked how my three tracks sounded much better than the examples here.
Anyway, that is my one and only experience with reprocessed stereo on LP.
I really enjoyed this. I actually enjoyed both mono, fake stereo sound . Like you, I must admit, I like the fake stereo better. Fake stereo,especially on a Glen Miller vingl,doesn't affect me in a negative way. Thx for sharing this
I will take original mono anytime. Simulated (Fake) Stereo sounds just awful and is unnatural. I read somewhere that some "phase shifted" simulated stereo recordings were created from the Haeco-CSG process which was originally intended to create mono Compatible Stereo records or to create fold-down mono masters instead of doing a dedicated mono mix.
oh man, fake stereo is terrible
The absolute worse fake stereo that I have ever heard is US copies of The Dave Clark Five records. Thay all are 100% fake stereo and are soooo phased as to be almost unlistenable. However, UK srtereo is wonderful on these, but for US copies, stick with mono. Also early Elvis stereo is all fake stereo and sounds pretty awful as well. Take care...
Please not call it fake stereo it is and will always be called Simulated Stereo If some don't like then thy would buy the monaural version.
Several methods exist for faking stereo, some terrible and some not quite so terrible.
There is no way to "fight back" against records that were produced decades ago.
Learn to live with them.
Fake stereo. Its hard to believe that record companies still do this horrible sounding crap.
For example the Stones bbc set from a few years ago is in fake stereo and just sounds awful.
But put into mono and just listen to how much better it sounds.
Im still hoping one day a good reissue company will redo the Hendrix BBC sessions in original mono. To me the best Hendrix you can buy and the destroyed it with fake stereo. I just put into mono but I shouldn’t have to.
Kudos to The Beatles BBC set for keeping it in mono. All the better for it.
You SHOULD have run a line feed from your record player to a video camera, or used a phone capable of stereo recording for this demonstration.
There are cheap aftermarket stereo microphones that plug into the lightning or USB-C port of your iPhone, as it natively records only in mono, if you are using such a phone-camera for audio+video capture. All your video here does is muddy up the water, useless!
We shoot on a Sony mirrorless. We often do direct feeds when reviewing turntables using our digital audio recorders but in this case it was not necessary to demonstrate the topic at hand.