Well done mate, "13 is the luckiest number on a Proa" The force is very strong here Bro, nice build, truly freestyle! Waiting for more... Keep Shunting, BSY
That's a pretty cool little boat Dominic! It looks like a lot of fun and it turned out much better than I thought it would, with that wind blowing across your deck like that. Great job!
I have been studying your drawings and trying to flush out the depth of your waka and ama. I am estimating about 40 and 20 cm. This boat ticks all my boxes! You have really democratized small boat building. Good on you!!!
Correct! Yeah it's 40cm because then can fit 3 sides on a single sheet. So the both hulls is 3 sheets (excepting the deck added in the pore recent video)
Correct! Yeah it's 40cm because then can fit 3 sides on a single sheet. So the both hulls is 3 sheets (excepting the deck added in the pore recent video)
Cool build dude! Pretty cool to see the spot you're at. We used to walk over there at low tide when I was a teenager. Had some great camping experiences there!
haha this was oyster island I don't think you could walk there! very nice spot with free camping and even a tap! lot's of great shallow water spots around here. I only really scratched the surface
@@dominictarrsailing Yep that's it. It's more of a wade but it's only up to the knees at a low tide. Untill about 10 years ago it was totally covered in huge pine trees but it got cleared.
Great work. Glad you blessed both ends! Folk have done tests on coating ply without using glass. Even with epoxy, it still checks eventually. Epoxy seems an expensive luxury for a cheap and cheerful wee tender, it’s going to take a beating and probably won’t last all that long. I would have used polyester resin.
Hmm I've always used epoxy. I understand polyester doesn't adhere well to wood. Can you thicken it into glue and filler like epoxy? if I recall I spent more on plywood than epoxy for this build
@@dominictarrsailing with polyester you have to be extra careful in preparation, as yes it does not bond as well, but fine for most jobs. Obviously abrade and clean surface. Then prime with resin thinned with styrene. For fillers the same, silica to thicken, milled glass or chopped fibre for strength, glass bubbles for smoothing. Final coat, especially outside, resin flowcoat, a gel coat with added wax to improve water resistance. A major difference is that it sets more quickly, either an issue or an advantage.
flush trim router is pretty flash bro! if it weren't for the goon wine at the end I would be worried you're selling out 😂 you've convinced me that a Proa will be my first build it's awesome to see your editing getting better with every video. this was really well put together, engaging and easy to follow. if you want a suggestion: you could do a better job of normalising the audio between clips. I use a very awesome pro-grade video editor called Davinci Resolve which is available for free, it's super easy to adjust audio levels in that.
That was my secret goal ;) aw It is only a black and decker ;) thanks! yeah I know audio is a problem. working on that one... I did try devinci resolve earlier on and it didn't work for me for some reason, I can't remember what it was so I will try it again.
Awesome build ! Have you thought about how to haul it on the deck of your Pahi, or was that not a consideration at all ? I plan to get/build a Tiki 30-31 sometime in the future, and I was also thinking of having a proa tender, but hauling it on deck for passages, as well as it being floaty enough to transport at least one other person or a good amount of provisions are both things I'm not sure how to do with a proa of this size. I thought maybe there could be a way to make it easily dismantlable for hauling, without making using it any more dangerous.
Yes! that was the first thing I thought about. That's why I made it 4.2m long. It fits across the decks, just in front or just behind the cabins. Everything fits inside the hull so it's one neat bundle. tiki 30 is a little wider than a pahi 31 though. I am now working on making it sail, and fast to pack up/down but that will be in another video.
hmm, just had a look at some pictures, not sure if you could stow my boat on a tiki 30 very well, not without blocking access to a hatch. just behind the forward crossbeam would be the only option. not sure how much space there is there.
You are living the life , sailing a wharram. Building a boat on top ... so cool. Can you live year round on your Wharram ? Is it safe for ocean crossing ? Eg Australia and/or Pacific Islands ?
Yes these boats have made many ocean crossings! a tiki 21 has even circumnavigated! I spent half the winter on board in the south island. It was pretty cold, but okay with a woolen hat and a few extra blankets. see this video: th-cam.com/video/15GgbLqX2Uo/w-d-xo.html
You mention the best thing to do when deciding to build a big boat to build a small one first, do you have a plan to build a big Proa? If so to your own design or something else?
I have several recurring daydreams about a larger proa. But i still have lots to learn with the small one. Then i might make on three sheets (7.2m) long. Still pretty small, but there are lots of advantages to a smaller boat, such as being possible to drag up a beach, that i dont want to loose. It seems everone thinks bigger is better but bigger is more work and less fun!
@@brucedrake8645 the thing i have learnt with this boat, is that the hull is the easy part. The rig is the difficult part. You actually need to test lots of things. I built the hulls in a week, but it took most of a year to be happy with the rig, several months just to stop the thing faling down at some point each time i went sailing
Built my proa canoe in the living room while the missus was away. I'm sure it was easier than building on your catamaran but then you didn't have to convince my wife that it makes a nice addition to yhe interior decor.😅
Pretty cool proa! I I love your project and plan to do the similare one. I consider to make the plane bottom of my Waka without rocker. Do you think that plane bottom will negatively effect on performance of my boat?
I would really love to know what it would change! I don't think it would change top speed too much? But it should reduce turning speed. There are some proas both traditional (satawal) and modern (harryproa, wa'apa) that are completely rockerless. It would make tacking more difficult, but it should make shunting more controlled. My reasons for having a little rocker was to make it easier to pull up the beach, and also to make more manoeuvrable while paddling. Sailing as a shunting proa, it's on the responsive style. That did mean I had to shunt quite quickly, but moving the leeboard to the ama fixed that and now it's easy to shunt, no rush.
Out of chaos comes beauty. Your approximations on ama to Waka ratio look great and it paddles perfectly. Getting to shore for supplies will be easier and more enjoyable for you now! DIY! How long is the Waka? Im building a 3.3 meter proa right now. I hope to stand on the platform as it sails if its big enough.
Waka is 4.2 long, 0.38 wide at the bottom. Ama is 2.4 long. Other dimensions are based on 0.4 wide "plank" of plywood, which I cut at the plywood shop to make transport easy (on bicycle trailer! for the ama this is split again to 0.2). a beam about 0.4 was chosen because that would fit on my cat, under the tillers. I thought I was making a beamy load carrying hull, was amazed how fast it went!
Hi Dominic. I've watched this video twice now. After discovering proas yesterday I'm now in the planning stage of having a small sailing boat whilst I'm working on my 23ft monohull. How did you establish the waterline for glassing? I'm a heavier bloke so also wondering if you'd recomend a larger proa. Cheers Nick
haha welcome to proa world! my proa here is sized exactly to my needs, so it fits on my boat without sticking out the sides, and so that the ama can support my weight (just), also so that it could be built out of just 3 sheets of ply. On my old proa ("good enough" see my other videos) the ama wasn't big enough to support my weight. That means the platform isn't so usable. I only weigh about 65 kg so if you are a lot more than that you'd need something larger. I think you'd need a 4 sheet design for that. It's easy to estimate they bouyancy of the hulls because they are flat bottomed and nearly square sided. I just interpolate between what it would be if it was a rectangular box - width*length*depth and what it would be if it was triangular, width*length*depth*0.5 that is, full width in the middle but sides go straight to a point at the bow from there. That's called the "prismatic coefficient" it means, what proportion of the "prism" (box) volume is it? I just picked 0.75 since the sides come fairly straight in the mid section and then curve in at the ends and it ended up just about right. Also, building a model and testing that is a very good idea. You can just scale a model to calculate bouyacy (which doesn't work for hull drag and lift unfortunately)
Thanks for your detailed reply. I'm gonna say I definitely weight more than you. Almost twice as much currently 🙈 Anyway I'm considering a 6m (19ft) build. The Waka being made of 3x 2m sections. And the ama being made of 2x 2m sections. All of which will be bolted together with strong bulkheads. That's where I'm at after 24hrs of pondering. I'll look forward to seeing more of you proa videos. I'm gobsmacked at how fast it is. What I can't fit on my car roof I can easily chuck in the back of the car with the seats down.
@@chasingfreedom83 do you mean making sections that come apart? I am well aware of a popular proa design that separates, but in my opinion (and based on experience of building and using a come-apart nesting dinghy) is that it's not really worth it. It adds weight and complexity and takes longer to set up. phil bolger says length is actually a advantage for a car topper, because you can lift one end up then slide it on, instead of lifting the entire thing in one go. I have been thinking myself, about a "maxi cartopper" that would be 3 sheets long (7.2m) using twice as much wood as this. I've built 4 proas (okay two were tackers) all not more than 2 sheets long. I'm reluctant to dive into a longer proa just yet because it's easier to experiment on a smaller boat, everything spars, sails, etc are smaller and cheaper. 7.2 is within legal limits for a car top load, in NZ at least. This is an experimental boat, you need to be able to quickly experiment! I built it in a week, but getting it sailing really well (in control, not breaking regularily) has taken months. (9 months now, still making big improvements, not perfect yet)
Yes a boat that separates into two sections. I don't have anywhere to store a 5m boat, well I do but it has corners to access it. I can however probably manage to get around corners standing a 2.5-3m boat on end to get around. Also not having a workshop I'll be building it in my yard so again 2.5/3m works well. I've already built this boat 5 times in my head. Payday this week so will start making models and hopefully start building something.
only the sides are 4mm, the decks, bulkheads, manu and bottom are 6mm. this 6mm ply is very hard and stiff. the 4mm is very light and bendy. (it's not just a thinner version of the same) Sometimes you need to stand on parts of the boat, and the 4mm does not feel strong enough. The 6mm feels really strong, especially if it has a little bit of curve (as in the decks) if you made this from 4mm you'd have to be very careful. you'd save some weight, but I'd try to make rest of rig (mast, akas, platform, etc) lighter first!
@@vattuvarg I tried to design an all round compromise. I need it to be compact and light, so I can get it on deck, and store it there. V hulls are hard to turn. That's an asset if you want to sail in a straight line across an ocean, but this canoe will do that strapped to the deck of my cat! a flat bottom gives me more volume on a shallower draft, so it gets closer to the shore before I need to drag it, and is also much easier to drag through the mud! (which is something that I need to do frequently!) When I have guests I'll be paddling ashore in this so it needs to paddle accepably well also. A round bottom would be even better for that, but that is somewhat more complicated to build quickly!
the downside to a non-v hull is that I need a leeboard to sail effectively, and that means _another_ thing to move while shunting. but it also means another thing to tune! I wasn't expecting it to sail so well! very happy with it!
This is a rad video!!! James Wharram would be proud
thanks!
The way you lash your iako to the waka is pretty neat. Your spanish windlass saves a lot of time compared to traditional lashing!
yes and it gets it really tight too! might not do this technique using natural fibers but works great with polyester.
Well done mate, "13 is the luckiest number on a Proa" The force is very strong here Bro, nice build, truly freestyle!
Waiting for more... Keep Shunting, BSY
That's a pretty cool little boat Dominic! It looks like a lot of fun and it turned out much better than I thought it would, with that wind blowing across your deck like that. Great job!
thanks! yeah I'm really quite happy with it! still improving the rig but I've got it going pretty well now (as can be seen in the sailing videos)
I have been studying your drawings and trying to flush out the depth of your waka and ama. I am estimating about 40 and 20 cm. This boat ticks all my boxes! You have really democratized small boat building. Good on you!!!
Correct! Yeah it's 40cm because then can fit 3 sides on a single sheet. So the both hulls is 3 sheets (excepting the deck added in the pore recent video)
Correct! Yeah it's 40cm because then can fit 3 sides on a single sheet. So the both hulls is 3 sheets (excepting the deck added in the pore recent video)
Great film, awesome boat & some of the best practical use of folding bike transport!
Cheers for the plans here!
Cool build dude! Pretty cool to see the spot you're at. We used to walk over there at low tide when I was a teenager. Had some great camping experiences there!
haha this was oyster island I don't think you could walk there! very nice spot with free camping and even a tap! lot's of great shallow water spots around here. I only really scratched the surface
@@dominictarrsailing Yep that's it. It's more of a wade but it's only up to the knees at a low tide. Untill about 10 years ago it was totally covered in huge pine trees but it got cleared.
haha I didn't realize it got that shallow!@@shoutatthesky
Well if you're back in the area let me know if you need any local knowledge 👍😁
I do plan to be back sometime this summer!@@shoutatthesky will keep you posted!
Crazy clever! Go Dom!! Xx
thanks Jane!
That's amazing!
Great content
So cool. I love this content!
Great work. Glad you blessed both ends!
Folk have done tests on coating ply without using glass. Even with epoxy, it still checks eventually.
Epoxy seems an expensive luxury for a cheap and cheerful wee tender, it’s going to take a beating and probably won’t last all that long. I would have used polyester resin.
Hmm I've always used epoxy. I understand polyester doesn't adhere well to wood. Can you thicken it into glue and filler like epoxy? if I recall I spent more on plywood than epoxy for this build
@@dominictarrsailing with polyester you have to be extra careful in preparation, as yes it does not bond as well, but fine for most jobs. Obviously abrade and clean surface. Then prime with resin thinned with styrene. For fillers the same, silica to thicken, milled glass or chopped fibre for strength, glass bubbles for smoothing. Final coat, especially outside, resin flowcoat, a gel coat with added wax to improve water resistance. A major difference is that it sets more quickly, either an issue or an advantage.
flush trim router is pretty flash bro! if it weren't for the goon wine at the end I would be worried you're selling out 😂
you've convinced me that a Proa will be my first build
it's awesome to see your editing getting better with every video. this was really well put together, engaging and easy to follow. if you want a suggestion: you could do a better job of normalising the audio between clips. I use a very awesome pro-grade video editor called Davinci Resolve which is available for free, it's super easy to adjust audio levels in that.
That was my secret goal ;) aw It is only a black and decker ;)
thanks! yeah I know audio is a problem. working on that one... I did try devinci resolve earlier on and it didn't work for me for some reason, I can't remember what it was so I will try it again.
So rad! This is my new favorite video from you. Hoping to see lots more videos of this proa in action!
@@dominictarrsailing just learn to use two plug ins, compressor and ducking.
@@marvelouswonderful thanks! I'll check those out! I've heard of compressor, ducking is new to me though but sounds like just what I need!
Thanks for the aka lashing method, I needed that
you are welcome!
So cool!!!!
Wow you got your money’s worth out of that bahco saw !
Thats one of the better brands available around here
Awesome build ! Have you thought about how to haul it on the deck of your Pahi, or was that not a consideration at all ?
I plan to get/build a Tiki 30-31 sometime in the future, and I was also thinking of having a proa tender, but hauling it on deck for passages, as well as it being floaty enough to transport at least one other person or a good amount of provisions are both things I'm not sure how to do with a proa of this size.
I thought maybe there could be a way to make it easily dismantlable for hauling, without making using it any more dangerous.
Yes! that was the first thing I thought about. That's why I made it 4.2m long. It fits across the decks, just in front or just behind the cabins. Everything fits inside the hull so it's one neat bundle. tiki 30 is a little wider than a pahi 31 though.
I am now working on making it sail, and fast to pack up/down but that will be in another video.
hmm, just had a look at some pictures, not sure if you could stow my boat on a tiki 30 very well, not without blocking access to a hatch. just behind the forward crossbeam would be the only option. not sure how much space there is there.
You are living the life , sailing a wharram. Building a boat on top ... so cool. Can you live year round on your Wharram ? Is it safe for ocean crossing ? Eg Australia and/or Pacific Islands ?
Yes these boats have made many ocean crossings! a tiki 21 has even circumnavigated! I spent half the winter on board in the south island. It was pretty cold, but okay with a woolen hat and a few extra blankets. see this video: th-cam.com/video/15GgbLqX2Uo/w-d-xo.html
You mention the best thing to do when deciding to build a big boat to build a small one first, do you have a plan to build a big Proa? If so to your own design or something else?
I have several recurring daydreams about a larger proa. But i still have lots to learn with the small one. Then i might make on three sheets (7.2m) long. Still pretty small, but there are lots of advantages to a smaller boat, such as being possible to drag up a beach, that i dont want to loose. It seems everone thinks bigger is better but bigger is more work and less fun!
@@dominictarrsailing I agree totally, I love the simplicity of the design.
@@brucedrake8645 the thing i have learnt with this boat, is that the hull is the easy part. The rig is the difficult part. You actually need to test lots of things. I built the hulls in a week, but it took most of a year to be happy with the rig, several months just to stop the thing faling down at some point each time i went sailing
Built my proa canoe in the living room while the missus was away. I'm sure it was easier than building on your catamaran but then you didn't have to convince my wife that it makes a nice addition to yhe interior decor.😅
classic! I love boat building stories like that! do you have any photos of it online?
Pretty cool proa! I I love your project and plan to do the similare one. I consider to make the plane bottom of my Waka without rocker. Do you think that plane bottom will negatively effect on performance of my boat?
I would really love to know what it would change! I don't think it would change top speed too much? But it should reduce turning speed. There are some proas both traditional (satawal) and modern (harryproa, wa'apa) that are completely rockerless. It would make tacking more difficult, but it should make shunting more controlled. My reasons for having a little rocker was to make it easier to pull up the beach, and also to make more manoeuvrable while paddling. Sailing as a shunting proa, it's on the responsive style. That did mean I had to shunt quite quickly, but moving the leeboard to the ama fixed that and now it's easy to shunt, no rush.
Maneuverability and pulling up to the beach are good reasons for rocker. Thanks for sharing your experience😊
Proas don’t need rocker. But if the sides are made straight, when bent and flared out it gives some rocker.
Out of chaos comes beauty. Your approximations on ama to Waka ratio look great and it paddles perfectly. Getting to shore for supplies will be easier and more enjoyable for you now! DIY! How long is the Waka? Im building a 3.3 meter proa right now. I hope to stand on the platform as it sails if its big enough.
Waka is 4.2 long, 0.38 wide at the bottom. Ama is 2.4 long. Other dimensions are based on 0.4 wide "plank" of plywood, which I cut at the plywood shop to make transport easy (on bicycle trailer! for the ama this is split again to 0.2). a beam about 0.4 was chosen because that would fit on my cat, under the tillers. I thought I was making a beamy load carrying hull, was amazed how fast it went!
Hi Dominic. I've watched this video twice now. After discovering proas yesterday I'm now in the planning stage of having a small sailing boat whilst I'm working on my 23ft monohull.
How did you establish the waterline for glassing? I'm a heavier bloke so also wondering if you'd recomend a larger proa.
Cheers
Nick
haha welcome to proa world! my proa here is sized exactly to my needs, so it fits on my boat without sticking out the sides, and so that the ama can support my weight (just), also so that it could be built out of just 3 sheets of ply. On my old proa ("good enough" see my other videos) the ama wasn't big enough to support my weight. That means the platform isn't so usable. I only weigh about 65 kg so if you are a lot more than that you'd need something larger. I think you'd need a 4 sheet design for that.
It's easy to estimate they bouyancy of the hulls because they are flat bottomed and nearly square sided. I just interpolate between what it would be if it was a rectangular box - width*length*depth and what it would be if it was triangular, width*length*depth*0.5 that is, full width in the middle but sides go straight to a point at the bow from there.
That's called the "prismatic coefficient" it means, what proportion of the "prism" (box) volume is it? I just picked 0.75 since the sides come fairly straight in the mid section and then curve in at the ends and it ended up just about right.
Also, building a model and testing that is a very good idea. You can just scale a model to calculate bouyacy (which doesn't work for hull drag and lift unfortunately)
Thanks for your detailed reply. I'm gonna say I definitely weight more than you. Almost twice as much currently 🙈
Anyway I'm considering a 6m (19ft) build. The Waka being made of 3x 2m sections. And the ama being made of 2x 2m sections. All of which will be bolted together with strong bulkheads.
That's where I'm at after 24hrs of pondering.
I'll look forward to seeing more of you proa videos. I'm gobsmacked at how fast it is.
What I can't fit on my car roof I can easily chuck in the back of the car with the seats down.
@@chasingfreedom83 do you mean making sections that come apart? I am well aware of a popular proa design that separates, but in my opinion (and based on experience of building and using a come-apart nesting dinghy) is that it's not really worth it. It adds weight and complexity and takes longer to set up. phil bolger says length is actually a advantage for a car topper, because you can lift one end up then slide it on, instead of lifting the entire thing in one go.
I have been thinking myself, about a "maxi cartopper" that would be 3 sheets long (7.2m) using twice as much wood as this. I've built 4 proas (okay two were tackers) all not more than 2 sheets long. I'm reluctant to dive into a longer proa just yet because it's easier to experiment on a smaller boat, everything spars, sails, etc are smaller and cheaper. 7.2 is within legal limits for a car top load, in NZ at least.
This is an experimental boat, you need to be able to quickly experiment! I built it in a week, but getting it sailing really well (in control, not breaking regularily) has taken months. (9 months now, still making big improvements, not perfect yet)
Yes a boat that separates into two sections. I don't have anywhere to store a 5m boat, well I do but it has corners to access it. I can however probably manage to get around corners standing a 2.5-3m boat on end to get around.
Also not having a workshop I'll be building it in my yard so again 2.5/3m works well. I've already built this boat 5 times in my head. Payday this week so will start making models and hopefully start building something.
@@chasingfreedom83have you looked at Gary Dierking’s Wa’apa?
All the main hull is made with 4mm plywood? Bottom too? So on it's resistant enought?
only the sides are 4mm, the decks, bulkheads, manu and bottom are 6mm. this 6mm ply is very hard and stiff. the 4mm is very light and bendy. (it's not just a thinner version of the same)
Sometimes you need to stand on parts of the boat, and the 4mm does not feel strong enough. The 6mm feels really strong, especially if it has a little bit of curve (as in the decks) if you made this from 4mm you'd have to be very careful.
you'd save some weight, but I'd try to make rest of rig (mast, akas, platform, etc) lighter first!
@@dominictarrsailing Thanks.
Came for the proa, stayed for the bikeyak
Where do you live I wanna do the exact same thing
haha this is in New Zealand. Where do you live currently?
Ka pai to Waka ama
Oh, it's a korkor....
yup!!!
@@dominictarrsailing - Why not a v-shaped section like the cat?
@@vattuvarg I tried to design an all round compromise. I need it to be compact and light, so I can get it on deck, and store it there. V hulls are hard to turn. That's an asset if you want to sail in a straight line across an ocean, but this canoe will do that strapped to the deck of my cat! a flat bottom gives me more volume on a shallower draft, so it gets closer to the shore before I need to drag it, and is also much easier to drag through the mud! (which is something that I need to do frequently!) When I have guests I'll be paddling ashore in this so it needs to paddle accepably well also. A round bottom would be even better for that, but that is somewhat more complicated to build quickly!
the downside to a non-v hull is that I need a leeboard to sail effectively, and that means _another_ thing to move while shunting. but it also means another thing to tune! I wasn't expecting it to sail so well! very happy with it!