*READ THIS FIRST* Since so many people are commenting _before_ watching the video (seriously, why would you do that? lol), this video is *not* about Primaris Marines within pre-existing chapters such as the Dark Angels, but about Dark Angel successor chapters comprised _entirely_ of Primaris Marines. Yes I have read War of Secrets and know of how the Dark Angels treated their Primaris Marines initially in regards to The Fallen, but again this video is *not* about that. *UPDATE*: As of the 9th edition Dark Angels codex, it has been revealed that Ultima Founding Dark Angel successor chapters are indeed made aware of The Fallen, with Azrael himself informing these chapters of them in a majority of cases.
I thought this video was very interesting. I may make a DA successor chapter primaris army at some point in the future. One thing I would add to your very relevant discussion about the inner circle of other Unforgiven chapters - in Gav Thorpe's DA trilogy as one of the characters progresses into the Deathwing it's revealed that his Sergeant is ex-Deathwing and in fact the inner circle is everywhere watching the chapter. Any position of authority within the DA is occupied by an ex-Deathwing member with knowledge of the fallen. There could have been an interesting story about how the primaris were all forced to fight under regular marine sergeants and masters etc. and resented it within all primaris foundings. Not realising that they were being watched like any other member of the Unforgiven. But yeah, I still think GW screwed the pooch on the primaris lore generally... but esp so for the DA. Too much of it doesn't fit with the characters and the people writing it clearly didn't care whether it made any sense for DA lore. (Hell, they were calling Master Lazarus a Captain in their early stories despite the fact there's been pages dedicated in the DA codex for ages saying there are no Captains in the DA.) Also, some of the jokes in this comment section are great :)
I've been working on a fan primaris successor chapter that are entirely unaware of the Fallen and who's purpose is to act as sort of a PR chapter. their job is to aid and fill in for firstborn when ever they are working with other Imperial factions and leave to go hunt fallen. as far as they know from Azrael, the firstborn are required to leave when ever a suspected "relic of Caliban" is suspected in the area. I'd like to think they even provided cover while the firstborn were loading a "relic" in an oddly space marine sized containment unit into a thunderhawk.
“ASMODAI!!!” “INTERROGATE?!” “Our assumptions are confirmed!” “WHAT?!” “He has a suspicious book!” “BOOK!” “He’s in cahoots with the fallen!” “FALLEN!” “Make him repent!” “REPENT!!”
*What's that you've got in your hand?* This? Oh it's just the secrets of the Dark Angels Chaptaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa..... Oh. This is unfortunate!
@@TheShepherd2305 If the emperor had a text to speech device episode 27 at the very end. If you've never seen if the emperor had a text to speech device before... Drop everything you're currently doing and binge it. If you're a fan of warhammer you'll probably die of laughter at least a dozen or so times before hitting episode 15. It's on TH-cam from a dude called Albfusa.
@@TheShepherd2305 Sorry I was Wrong. Its from Episode 28, Heres a Direct link to the timestamped part of the episode. You should really take the time to watch all of TTS though, its by far one of the best community made things of warhammer available on the internet! th-cam.com/video/9qi3Evua2Cs/w-d-xo.html
@@kenicherothered6816 "Yes Mylord, it's a great tragedy. We don't know what led to the massive engagement but all Loyals on that planet have fallen." "And the Fallen?" "No trace of them." "What are you waiting for? Hunt them down!"
NOTHING happened on Caliban. And what happened on Caliban stays on Caliban. We've had a better opinion of this channel. You should be ashamed for spreading such vile lies.
as a member of Cyphers Legion I say... STOP ACTING BONKERS AND WAKE UP OUR DAMNED PRIMARCH ALREADY!!! Oh..wait... you guys didnt even remember he was there in the rock...did you.....*ruffles threw a huge demon skin bag then holds out a book* It's the Lions Tome. Read it. Learn it. And wake his ass up!
Read the short story Enmity's Edge. Azrael has basically told the inner circle of the dark angels to "get over" their distrust of the primaris. Captain Lazerus crossing the primaris rubicon stands as proof that the Ultima founding chapters will be told of the uncomfortable truths of their past to svae the first legion from tearing itself apart. Azrael-I'm putting the chapter back together. I'm putting our brotherhood back together. This ends now.
Primaris within the Dark Angels will certainly learn about the Fallen eventually, yes (Apharan himself was the first _official_ example of this occurring) but it is an altogether different matter regarding an entire Primaris chapter. While it is certainly possible that Azrael may come to inform the Ultima Founding Unforgiven Chapters of the Fallen in the future, as of right now (i.e pre 9th ed DA codex) it remains unclear if these chapters are _currently_ aware of the Fallen in any capacity (which is the topic of this video).
maybe its because TTS but I feel like the 'trials' to join the inner circle involve fully power armor clad marines sitting in school desks taking some kind of scantron test involving the history of their chapter and if they answer any question wrong, they're summarily boltered by the Proctor.
It’s funny to me that the Dark Angel’s obsession with covering up the very existence of the Fallen makes the whole legion look like traitors trying very hard to appear loyal. Actually, the shame they feel because some members of their legion turned traitor a long time ago just really doesn’t make sense. There’s tons of Black Shields who came from legions that almost entirely turned traitor who feel less shame than the Dark Angels. Like yeah they we're ashamed of their brothers’ treachery so they removed all of the livery and iconography from their armor, but they openly served as loyal astartes and didn’t try to hide that they came from traitor legions. The Dark Angels could just come clean, renounce the Fallen, and most likely the rest of the Imperium wouldn’t really care that much I imagine.
The Dark Angels are the First, the Honoured, the Sons of the Lion. Their battle record is exemplary and their legend reflects this. Breaking that legend by openly declaring the Fallen to the Imperium would have destructive effects on morale all across the Imperium. Also, many organisations like the Inquisiton would seek to take advantage of this and maybe even declare the Unforgiven excommunicate traitors in their idiot zeal. This cannot be allowed to happen. The Unforgiven is a significant portion of the Imperiums might, and are purpose built Chaos killers. This is why the Dark Angels continue the Hunt in secret. It's not just from a Knights shame and honour, but out of necessity. The Unforgivens continuation is VITAL to the Imperium of Man's survival.
If they had done that 11k years earlier sure. Now? Hiding a secret for such a long time plus the paranoia and cover ups and "missing" Inqiusitors make for a big rap on the knuckles.
True, a big faction of the White Scars turned traitor, with ironically loyalist remnants of 1000 Sons helping The Khan during the Heresy, speaking of Loyalist 1000 Sons(!) half the Blood Ravens turned traitor in the current era but the whole chapter wasn’t declared as fallen
@@Maxibon2007 it was several centuries after the destruction of Caliban that the Dark Angels learned of the survival of the Fallen. They had thought them destroyed. By then the Imperium was relatively stable, and to bring this up so soon after the Scouring would have thrown a spanner in the works of that stability. So the Dark Angels took on what they saw as their own task with a Knights honour. The Unforgiven take a certain mindset to understand
Speaking of blackshields I read an account somewhere of Loyalist Death Guard marines deciding to adopt the old heraldry of the Dusk Raiders when they chose to remain loyal to mankind. kinda interesting.
So is apple pie, but only if you eat it when the time is right, and eventually, you’ll be out of pie. Even if you bake another, you’re still only chasing the original satisfaction, and over time, the taste of pies past weary evermore the more it is consumed. Eventually, you try a different dessert, maybe it’s blueberry. It’s still pie, but the core of its essence is different, and so your loyalty has shifted from within. It’s the ethereal nature of loyalty that makes it valuable. I’m gonna go eat pie now.
It's great to see my chapter in a video! I know they dont have a lot of lore yet, but I like to think that the Ultima chapters dont know about the Fallen. Because of this, I do not have a Raven wing company or Death Wing company in my chapter
Always love to see Dark Angel videos I know there’s not a lot of new lore after the Primaris marines became a thing so I hope the new codex and supplement that will eventually come out will fill a lot of holes and answer some questions! I think that most of the Dark Angels shame came from the fact that they lost so much during the betrayal not JUST that they were betrayed. I mean they lost there Primarch, their homeworld Caliban but yes also half the Legion. I can’t imagine the shame they must have felt as like someone said earlier in this video they are the first legion the best. Not to mention how Lion El Johnson wanted perfection from his legion of a battle wasn’t won with 100% efficiency than the battle was not won at all.
I remember a hint from GW that the next Primarch may return for Christmas. It's probably the Lion, it seems like the Dark Angles can't keep their secret for much longer. Of course it may just be fun to see Gulliman and the Lion have a fistfight followed by brohugs and manly tears.
I’ve wanted to make a DA Primaris chapter oblivious to the secret of the Fallen, but I doubted that was possible in the lore. Thanks for answering my obscure questions!
so being a Dark Angel myself =P.. our successor chapters are not like other chapters, in the fact that Azrael still commands these chapters whether its directly or indirectly. The DA used this design to please the codex astartes and not appear as a legion, when in reality, the DA are the closest to the original Legion design. There are infact leaders of the successor chapters that are in the inner circle and have knowledge of the Fallen. I'm not sure the full extent of said knowledge as it varies from leader to leader. Also the successor chapters have a deathwing and ravenwing themed 1st/2nd company, all of this for the reason if the Unforgiven needed they could be as Legion with little to no effort. Now to the finer point of the Primaris successor unforgiven, I'm very confident that Azrael has allowed those leaders into the entry levels of the inner circle, and the initial reveal is that of Luther's betrayal and the eternal hunt of The Fallen. The Dark Angels wouldnt allow them to truly exist unless there's plans to use them for the Hunt. Otherwise there would be some successor chapter ending incident that accidently happened. =D I've said too much already, Asmodai will have my head.
The answer to this question is yes. The better question is. What would Guilliman do when and if he learns that the chapters have kept his sleeping brothers status a secret from him?
Considering none of the dark angels actually know he is still alive? Probably not much. All the DA believe the Lion is dead and gone. The Watchers in the Dark recovered Jonson on Caliban and secured him in the Rock without any DA knowing. In the DA trilogy you learn that the Watchers have the ability to open up completely random passages to places in the Rock. This happens with they finally reveal Tulchulcha to Azrael and Ezekial. They come to Azrael and just warp magic a tunnel that leads to Tulchulcha. So the Lion's status is completely unknown to them, except for maybe Cypher.
What's the difference between a chapter from the Ultima Founding, with the geneseed of the Lion, discovering the existence of the Fallen and any other chapter of Space Marines ? I don't think there is any.
*the Lion awakes* Lion: what is going on my sons...where is the planet? Dark angels: DAD your back!!!! Lion: yeah I fallen and hit my he- Dark angels loading bolters: WE SHOULD HAVE ALWAYS KNOWN!!!!!!
Given how the Custodes slaughtered the whole Brazen Drakes Primaries reinforcement for their genebearers betrayal, the Ultima founding Unforgiven have no choice but to somehow join the hunt for the fallen.
By the way since fallen pretty much have no ways on getting themselves with Primaris Reinforcement, isn't it possible to identify the Fallen to see if they have primaris or Not? I mean if some space marine group that are looks like fallen, and have No Primaris with them, are More Likely to Be Fallen?
This is actually a really good idea, although its Risky to cross the Rubicon and no doubt thousands of loyal marines still haven't, I'd say by the end of the M42 almost every loyal marine will be Primaris, meaning renegades, and the fallen will be easier to identify.
Unless that group of loyal Dark Angels abandoned their Primaris "bros" wherever they stood side by side when they got word of Fallen's locations and rushed there to get them. Having Primaris among Firstborn requires them to know what all the fuzz is about when they are dealing with said fuzz. Otherwise...shhhh....don't tell them.
One Index Astartes I do want to see is one around a Primaris successor Chapter of the Dark Angels and how learning about the Fallen happened and how and if that information was spread across the Chapter.
It seems most likely that the Unforgiven would try to, essentially, infiltrate their Ultima Founding brothers. That would mean waiting until there were enough Primaris in the inner circles of the Unforgiven chapters and then sending them to fight alongside the Ultima Founding Chapters, and allowing them to create their own inner circles, possibility initially excluding the Chapter Masters of those Chapters, until they could be felt out or replaced. This process would take centuries, and not just one or two.
It would make sense as they are Sons of the Lion. (who was the "Bane" to Konrad Curze's "Batman") Although they would need to rise through the ranks to earn the right to know of the secrets of the Chapter. | 0:34 - (Monotone) All hail Big Papa Ultrasmurf. | 3:50 - Well, there is one Primarch that would know...but he hasn't revealed himself yet.
Regarding those chapters of firstborn marines founded at the Dark Angels behest, I always had my own theory about that. I figured the Deathwing and Ravenwing have no fixed size, right? I always imagined that they, or one of the successors, would get to the point where they could field close to two companies of Deathwing. And that's when they would split them, and get a new chapter made, with DA veterans making up the core of the new chapter. Scout companies also have no fixed size, and DA have no fixed recruiting worlds, so they may have just come upon a very populous recruiting world?
If BL writers continue with the HH Jonson character arc, then probably not much. In a sense the DA as they are now are just a chip off the old block. Interrogators were already a part of the Legion before the Lions fall. The Lion was regularly secretive about issues, sometimes even from his own legion, but especially his brothers. He was willing to "do what it takes to get the job done", even if it meant collateral damage (something he and Guilliman frequently butted heads over in Imperium Secundus). The final fight with and capture of the Night Haunter is a perfect shadow of the legion to come. They find their quarry, they break the "imperiums" rules in the hunt, they capture quarry, Jonson tries to hide how he broke the rules to capture Curze from Guilliman and Sanguinius, etc. Jonson was fine with breaking rules if he felt the ends would justify the means. That is why he sanctioned the use of psykers during the HH even with the edict of Nikea, imposed a form of marshall law/curfews on Macragge, used Void bombs to get to Curze, etc. Most chapters inherit specific traits from their gene father, whether by chapter culture or actual gene inheritance. Ultramarines have the perfect society/ rulership thing going to them. The Imperial Fists are the builders and defenders. Blood Angels have the angelic nobility, yet red thirst. Space Wolves are boisterous, yet good hearted, and function like a pack. And the DA are secretive, willing to do what it takes for what they believe is the greater good, and rather lethal. All the chapters of the original legions are basically shadows of their gene fathers in tactics, chapter organization, duty, and personality.
I can see a story where an Ultima Founding Dark Angels successor is manipulated by their forbears, using the special status the 1st Founding Chapters have held since the introduction of the Codex.
'Okay... so don't tell dad 'cause you'll get in trouble, too but.... it turns out we have a real traitorous streak in our genes and we're cleaning it up... we swear.... it's like, totally under control... again don't tell dad.... but you now gotta help us hunt our old bros.'
since we behold it often, is the artwork of the Eternity Gate official? Does the top depict the emperor battling the dragon of Mars or Horus in a demonic shape?
And thats why my personal Ultima Founding DA chapter was taken in by certain very ancient, black clad, obviously loyal DA Veterans to learn the true history of the Primarch and the Legion. (Also just another reason to paint Cypher)
The Dark Angels need to be purged for their treachery! "Were you loyal, you would set down your weapons and accept your guilt." - Shield-Captain Atal Tyvar of the Adeptus Custodes
I think it was ten thousand years ago and Luther fell into a very tragic decline. The Lion was pretty awful to him, he even admitted it, at least to himself. All the lengths the DA have gone to to protect this secret is simply not worth it. They've allowed it to do far more damage than it otherwise would have.
After the first primarus was inducted i believe that the Supreme Grand Master did in fact make contact with the highest command of the the new Primarus chapters and inform them of there full history. This would indeed be in person and behind closed doors.
Primaris wonders why no Firstborn ever talks to him since arrival and even heated debates stop instantly when he enters. Suddenly he walks by a poster saying: "Primaris lips sink ships".
All of this time, I did not know that the Primaris was Robute's idea. It makes sense now; only one of the Primarchs would dare to alter the Emperor's work . . . .
Let's say a primaris captain were to learn a part of the truth about the hunt for the fallen, what would happen to him? I'm trying to create a chaptre based on that idea, where said captain and his company would be sent to a crusade of attonement, like -"See this ship? Take it and don't come back" taking the opportunity to be send away to exerce a critique of the methods of the Dark Angels, and based on that, becoming an entierly new succesor chapter, having the Attitude of knights errant Is that plausible? i'd like my chapter to be as Lore-friendly as possible
The Supreme Grandmaster rank of the Dark Angels infers Azrael is the Leader of the Inner circle, there isn't any secret known the the Dark Angels that he dosn't have access to. In quotes he'd be something like a "Chapter Master" however with how the Dark Angels and their successors are organized you can more or less think of him as the Leader of the First Legion. As Dark Angels successor chapters answer the call of their Parent chapter which is one of the reasons they are accused of "Legion building". Also note I said "known secrets" only the watchers of the dark know that the Lion is alive, Luther probably knows as well but time has taken it's toll.
I began to wonder who is bigger trolls now. Alpha Legion with their „I am Alphariu” or the Fallen with their constant teasing and spooking the Dark Angels. I am sure some of them do it Just for fun. And if Luther were to unite the Fallen and recreate the Caliban Confederacy they could do some sort of weekly game nights titled „How do we f*ck up Dark Angel’s day.” Or „Best Granpa jokes commision.”
@@40KTheories Has Guilliman knowing of The Fallen been retconned now? Could've sworn he knew about it or maybe I'm thinking of blood angels not dark angels.
Okay so the inner circle control info on the legion to recruits of the chapters, but how do the dark angels explain the disappearance of Caliban and Lion El'Jonson to the wider imperium?
According to the Unforgiven novel series, some of the "lower ranking" Dark Angels are under the impression that Lion El'Jonson was killed during the Horus Heresy, so I would assume that's the story they would tell others who ask.
There was a comment in the recent White Dwarf Dark Angels Index Astartes that the Imperium was making more successors from Dark Angel geneseed to offset the number of Ultramarine successors, so there are probably a lot more than 2! Not named mind.
Before the ultimate flunding there were at least 70 chapters at any given moment but there's only ever 6 mentioned in the codexes so we can take the same treatment with ultima. Theres far far more chapter than the ones mentioned.
Overtime the Inner Circle can and should integrate Primaris marines raised inside the chapter; however, Guilliman and Cawl's Greyshields can never be fully trusted. They weren't chosen by the chapter, they were not raised, nor indoctrinated in the Dark Angel's culture and tradition and secrets.
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Everyone knows that The Dark Angels Order 67 will reform The Dark Angel Legion with all its wings for The Return of The Lion! :-)
Perhaps the reason they are so irrationally afraid of anybody finding out about the traitors is because they would be ashamed to admit it to their primarch?
I always wondered how many fallen are there in 40K: if it was half of the legion, and Dark angels were a quite sizeable one, there is quite a lot of them, like in the tenth of thousands?. Dark angels, even if not entirely comply with the Gulliman prescriptions, are a standard chapter, made in the very few thousand at best, so how have the core chapter able to withstand such a huge number of fallen if not by sharing informations with the second founding cousin, and how will they be able to keep the secret form the Primaris after the mauling they got in the last dark crusade? Another thing that always amused me is how GW pretends the fallen is a "well kept secret" from other chapters and even inquisition, when there are half a legion of guys out there assaulting the Imperium wearing outdated Dark Angel battlesuits!
All the fallen dont appear at once, and not all fallen are renegades or traitors. Some don't care either way and others are under the guise that lion is the traitor. Still others are still loyal. Also its warp fuckery. They were sucked through space and time so when ever they pop out, they pop out. At least that's how I understand it. Also there are 70 thousand 1st born chapters and all of them have contingents of 1st and 2nd companies that hunt down fallen
I'm probably a bit behind the curve but does the Emperor have any scenes in the books where he speaks at least since the time of Thor or indeed the end of the heresy. Just wondering because it's possible Guillman got his audience, found the Emperor is a pot plant, had a think for 3 days then lied and told everyone his own plans were supported by the Emperor. This could then prove a problem if any other Primarchs turn up and want to speak to dear old dad.
There is a part in one of the books where Guilliman describes what it was like to talk to the Emperor but nothing about what was talked about besides that the Emperor had some plan in mind. Which wouldn’t surprise me, if you were taking a 10,000 year bathroom break you’d probably come up with some plans. Apparently this one required a Primarch returning.
@@retroicdescent considering the dark angles have at least 70 chapters at any given time, thats at least 70k space marines and those are only the ones the high lords know about. Not to mention the first and 2nd companies dont stop at 100 space marines
themasterninja110 no, the 70 chapters was before the white dwarf article. The 2019 septembers issue of WD states that the High Lords of Terra and inquisition are supporting Unforgiven legion building now in order to counter the rise of power of ultramar. Also the very same article mentions that guiliman himself is pumping out many new Unforgiven chapters because he knows the sons of the Lion fight the hardest and among those least likely to fall into chaos. By now they are atleast 90-100k strong.
What would happen to the dark angels and their successor chapters, if Gulliman and the rest of the imperium learned of the fallen? My guess is nothing its not the first time space marines from loyalist chapters have turned traitor, so what would be so special about the dark angels??
Should we be concerned that one of the primaris marine chapters has the EXACT same color scheme as the Luna Wolves? Let it be known that Cawl suggested the use of traitor gene seed in the primaris project on multiple occasions and was shut down every time by Guiliman. I get the feeling that Cawl went and did it anyway and this is the result. I’ve always wondered how loyalist marines from traitor legions would live and function in the modern Imperium, primaris or not. It’s an open secret that the Blood Ravens are loyalist Thousand Sons, and the Sons of Anteus clearly have Death Guard genes in them, and don’t get me started on the dozen or so chapters that are clearly loyalist Emperor’s Children. So why not primaris?
Lore-noob here. Isn't the fallen a bit of an odd concept? Didn't the fall of caliban all the fallen stuff happen fairly shortly after the Horus Heresy? Wouldn't that mean that any fallen still present today would be incredibly ancient (unless warp shenaningans ofc..)? Just how many fallen can there be left after all that time, either captured or killed by the Dark Angels or simply dying by other causes in a very hostile galaxy? Now they are a cool concept i admit and rule of cool trumphs logic i know, but from a logical standpoint I don't see their existance in the current timelinase as feasible? What am I missing? (Sorry for the bad english)
Warp shenanigans basically. At the end of the hh, Caribana was sucked into the warp along with all the fallen so they are basically spread through out time and space and could appear at any moment amd if they really are chaos, then they don't age that much on top of being space marines. As for how much? I did the math some time ago and it came to be 90k+ at least according to my math and there are hints that it could be elgion strength in the 8th edition codex.
![[UNCUT] The Loyal Pin ปิ่นภักดิ์ EP.15 (2/4)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/qbHbshrA1f0/mqdefault.jpg)
*READ THIS FIRST*
Since so many people are commenting _before_ watching the video (seriously, why would you do that? lol), this video is *not* about Primaris Marines within pre-existing chapters such as the Dark Angels, but about Dark Angel successor chapters comprised _entirely_ of Primaris Marines. Yes I have read War of Secrets and know of how the Dark Angels treated their Primaris Marines initially in regards to The Fallen, but again this video is *not* about that.
*UPDATE*: As of the 9th edition Dark Angels codex, it has been revealed that Ultima Founding Dark Angel successor chapters are indeed made aware of The Fallen, with Azrael himself informing these chapters of them in a majority of cases.
I thought this video was very interesting. I may make a DA successor chapter primaris army at some point in the future. One thing I would add to your very relevant discussion about the inner circle of other Unforgiven chapters - in Gav Thorpe's DA trilogy as one of the characters progresses into the Deathwing it's revealed that his Sergeant is ex-Deathwing and in fact the inner circle is everywhere watching the chapter. Any position of authority within the DA is occupied by an ex-Deathwing member with knowledge of the fallen. There could have been an interesting story about how the primaris were all forced to fight under regular marine sergeants and masters etc. and resented it within all primaris foundings. Not realising that they were being watched like any other member of the Unforgiven. But yeah, I still think GW screwed the pooch on the primaris lore generally... but esp so for the DA. Too much of it doesn't fit with the characters and the people writing it clearly didn't care whether it made any sense for DA lore. (Hell, they were calling Master Lazarus a Captain in their early stories despite the fact there's been pages dedicated in the DA codex for ages saying there are no Captains in the DA.) Also, some of the jokes in this comment section are great :)
How did the Dark Angels treated their Primaris Marines initially in regards to The Fallen?
I've been working on a fan primaris successor chapter that are entirely unaware of the Fallen and who's purpose is to act as sort of a PR chapter. their job is to aid and fill in for firstborn when ever they are working with other Imperial factions and leave to go hunt fallen. as far as they know from Azrael, the firstborn are required to leave when ever a suspected "relic of Caliban" is suspected in the area. I'd like to think they even provided cover while the firstborn were loading a "relic" in an oddly space marine sized containment unit into a thunderhawk.
You’re not cool if you don’t respond to the video based on title and thumbnail alone.
Why aren’t we talking about this guy whose name is a syllable away from being a traitor primarch?
“ASMODAI!!!”
“INTERROGATE?!”
“Our assumptions are confirmed!”
“WHAT?!”
“He has a suspicious book!”
“BOOK!”
“He’s in cahoots with the fallen!”
“FALLEN!”
“Make him repent!”
“REPENT!!”
*What's that you've got in your hand?*
This? Oh it's just the secrets of the Dark Angels Chaptaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa..... Oh. This is unfortunate!
Alright, I've seen this Asmodai interrogate "HE HAS A BOOK!!" reference a couple times now. What "book" is this referring to?
@@TheShepherd2305 If the emperor had a text to speech device episode 27 at the very end.
If you've never seen if the emperor had a text to speech device before... Drop everything you're currently doing and binge it. If you're a fan of warhammer you'll probably die of laughter at least a dozen or so times before hitting episode 15.
It's on TH-cam from a dude called Albfusa.
@@TheShepherd2305 Sorry I was Wrong. Its from Episode 28, Heres a Direct link to the timestamped part of the episode. You should really take the time to watch all of TTS though, its by far one of the best community made things of warhammer available on the internet!
th-cam.com/video/9qi3Evua2Cs/w-d-xo.html
@@eyeballpapercut4400 Oh thats sly................. Now wheres the Marbo?
Grandma: Help I have fallen and can't get up.
Dark Angels : FALLEN WHERE ?!?!
- Dark Angel: trips
- Commissar: Are you ok sir, you seem to have fallen
- Dark Angel: NO I HAVEN'T! I'M LOYAL!!!!
Commissar:.....ok
*other Dark Angel comes*
Commissar:Sir it seams your comerade have fallen
Dark Angel: *loads bolter* Brother why?
Purge the planet!
@@kenicherothered6816 "Yes Mylord, it's a great tragedy. We don't know what led to the massive engagement but all Loyals on that planet have fallen." "And the Fallen?" "No trace of them." "What are you waiting for? Hunt them down!"
The Fallen are... {Redacted Transmission: "Heresy."} ...
Last transmission of Alpha Legionary informant Odysseus to Maccrage. M31.
Cool a new Dark Angels theory video. Thank you for making it
Fallen......What Fallen... I’m not acting crazy your crazy
NOTHING happened on Caliban.
And what happened on Caliban stays on Caliban.
We've had a better opinion of this channel.
You should be ashamed for spreading such vile lies.
but doesn't whats currently left of caliban fly around through space as their fortress ship....
as a member of Cyphers Legion I say... STOP ACTING BONKERS AND WAKE UP OUR DAMNED PRIMARCH ALREADY!!! Oh..wait... you guys didnt even remember he was there in the rock...did you.....*ruffles threw a huge demon skin bag then holds out a book* It's the Lions Tome. Read it. Learn it. And wake his ass up!
Read the short story Enmity's Edge. Azrael has basically told the inner circle of the dark angels to "get over" their distrust of the primaris. Captain Lazerus crossing the primaris rubicon stands as proof that the Ultima founding chapters will be told of the uncomfortable truths of their past to svae the first legion from tearing itself apart.
Azrael-I'm putting the chapter back together. I'm putting our brotherhood back together. This ends now.
Primaris within the Dark Angels will certainly learn about the Fallen eventually, yes (Apharan himself was the first _official_ example of this occurring) but it is an altogether different matter regarding an entire Primaris chapter. While it is certainly possible that Azrael may come to inform the Ultima Founding Unforgiven Chapters of the Fallen in the future, as of right now (i.e pre 9th ed DA codex) it remains unclear if these chapters are _currently_ aware of the Fallen in any capacity (which is the topic of this video).
>"get over"
sounds like what GW told BL writters when they were complaining too
@@luckiller019 In the words of the Dread Pirate Roberts: "Get used to disappointment."
maybe its because TTS but I feel like the 'trials' to join the inner circle involve fully power armor clad marines sitting in school desks taking some kind of scantron test involving the history of their chapter and if they answer any question wrong, they're summarily boltered by the Proctor.
It’s funny to me that the Dark Angel’s obsession with covering up the very existence of the Fallen makes the whole legion look like traitors trying very hard to appear loyal. Actually, the shame they feel because some members of their legion turned traitor a long time ago just really doesn’t make sense. There’s tons of Black Shields who came from legions that almost entirely turned traitor who feel less shame than the Dark Angels. Like yeah they we're ashamed of their brothers’ treachery so they removed all of the livery and iconography from their armor, but they openly served as loyal astartes and didn’t try to hide that they came from traitor legions. The Dark Angels could just come clean, renounce the Fallen, and most likely the rest of the Imperium wouldn’t really care that much I imagine.
The Dark Angels are the First, the Honoured, the Sons of the Lion. Their battle record is exemplary and their legend reflects this. Breaking that legend by openly declaring the Fallen to the Imperium would have destructive effects on morale all across the Imperium. Also, many organisations like the Inquisiton would seek to take advantage of this and maybe even declare the Unforgiven excommunicate traitors in their idiot zeal. This cannot be allowed to happen. The Unforgiven is a significant portion of the Imperiums might, and are purpose built Chaos killers.
This is why the Dark Angels continue the Hunt in secret. It's not just from a Knights shame and honour, but out of necessity. The Unforgivens continuation is VITAL to the Imperium of Man's survival.
If they had done that 11k years earlier sure. Now? Hiding a secret for such a long time plus the paranoia and cover ups and "missing" Inqiusitors make for a big rap on the knuckles.
True, a big faction of the White Scars turned traitor, with ironically loyalist remnants of 1000 Sons helping The Khan during the Heresy, speaking of Loyalist 1000 Sons(!) half the Blood Ravens turned traitor in the current era but the whole chapter wasn’t declared as fallen
@@Maxibon2007 it was several centuries after the destruction of Caliban that the Dark Angels learned of the survival of the Fallen. They had thought them destroyed. By then the Imperium was relatively stable, and to bring this up so soon after the Scouring would have thrown a spanner in the works of that stability. So the Dark Angels took on what they saw as their own task with a Knights honour.
The Unforgiven take a certain mindset to understand
Speaking of blackshields I read an account somewhere of Loyalist Death Guard marines deciding to adopt the old heraldry of the Dusk Raiders when they chose to remain loyal to mankind. kinda interesting.
*[Asmodai has entered the chat]*
Everyone else has left the chat(with smashed heads and crozius bits on them)
{Alpharius Omegon has entered chat}: It begins, as it ends as the Emperor, ordained.
{Alpharius Omegon has disconnected}
He has a *BOOK*
BOOK!!!
@@gargoyles9999 he's in cahoots with the fallen!
Loyalty is it’s own reward
So is apple pie, but only if you eat it when the time is right, and eventually, you’ll be out of pie. Even if you bake another, you’re still only chasing the original satisfaction, and over time, the taste of pies past weary evermore the more it is consumed. Eventually, you try a different dessert, maybe it’s blueberry. It’s still pie, but the core of its essence is different, and so your loyalty has shifted from within. It’s the ethereal nature of loyalty that makes it valuable. I’m gonna go eat pie now.
@@PointySuperman in assuming you are a fat teenager with a terrible "beard" and a trenchcoat
It's great to see my chapter in a video! I know they dont have a lot of lore yet, but I like to think that the Ultima chapters dont know about the Fallen.
Because of this, I do not have a Raven wing company or Death Wing company in my chapter
The Blades of Vengeance or Angels of Defiance?
Have to admit, the Blades have a nice mix of green, red and bone for their colour scheme.
I’m curious also as to which chapter and also how the new codex/supplement will fill in the blanks.
@@40KTheories Blades of Vengeance
Secrets? There are no secrets here! *nervous laughter*
(stage whisper, aside: Asmodai, make them repent!)
REPEEEEEEEENT!!!!!
There’s something indescribably comical about a spacemarine whispering that line to another after they’ve ducked behind a corner.
Always love to see Dark Angel videos I know there’s not a lot of new lore after the Primaris marines became a thing so I hope the new codex and supplement that will eventually come out will fill a lot of holes and answer some questions! I think that most of the Dark Angels shame came from the fact that they lost so much during the betrayal not JUST that they were betrayed. I mean they lost there Primarch, their homeworld Caliban but yes also half the Legion. I can’t imagine the shame they must have felt as like someone said earlier in this video they are the first legion the best. Not to mention how Lion El Johnson wanted perfection from his legion of a battle wasn’t won with 100% efficiency than the battle was not won at all.
I think, its time for Lion El'Johnson to wake up and get back to the fight. Thats what I think.
I know I said it before but I say it again (Im kinda obliged to):
I like that Cypher guy. He looks like a great lad.
There is no such thing as innocence, only varying degrees of guilt.
Innocence proves nothing.
An open mind is like a castle with it's gates unbarred and unguarded.
DO YOU HEAR THE VOICES TOO!?
HE KNOWS ABOUT THE FALLEN, QUICK ASMODAI MAKE HIM REPENT!
Loved that 7 seconds of silence and then BLAMMMMMMM turns out my headphones are working, and I need gauze for my ears lol
I remember a hint from GW that the next Primarch may return for Christmas. It's probably the Lion, it seems like the Dark Angles can't keep their secret for much longer. Of course it may just be fun to see Gulliman and the Lion have a fistfight followed by brohugs and manly tears.
I’ve wanted to make a DA Primaris chapter oblivious to the secret of the Fallen, but I doubted that was possible in the lore. Thanks for answering my obscure questions!
so being a Dark Angel myself =P.. our successor chapters are not like other chapters, in the fact that Azrael still commands these chapters whether its directly or indirectly. The DA used this design to please the codex astartes and not appear as a legion, when in reality, the DA are the closest to the original Legion design. There are infact leaders of the successor chapters that are in the inner circle and have knowledge of the Fallen. I'm not sure the full extent of said knowledge as it varies from leader to leader. Also the successor chapters have a deathwing and ravenwing themed 1st/2nd company, all of this for the reason if the Unforgiven needed they could be as Legion with little to no effort. Now to the finer point of the Primaris successor unforgiven, I'm very confident that Azrael has allowed those leaders into the entry levels of the inner circle, and the initial reveal is that of Luther's betrayal and the eternal hunt of The Fallen. The Dark Angels wouldnt allow them to truly exist unless there's plans to use them for the Hunt. Otherwise there would be some successor chapter ending incident that accidently happened. =D I've said too much already, Asmodai will have my head.
Oh what a web we weave when we practice to deceive. The parable of Tzeentch.
The answer to this question is yes. The better question is. What would Guilliman do when and if he learns that the chapters have kept his sleeping brothers status a secret from him?
Considering none of the dark angels actually know he is still alive? Probably not much. All the DA believe the Lion is dead and gone. The Watchers in the Dark recovered Jonson on Caliban and secured him in the Rock without any DA knowing. In the DA trilogy you learn that the Watchers have the ability to open up completely random passages to places in the Rock. This happens with they finally reveal Tulchulcha to Azrael and Ezekial. They come to Azrael and just warp magic a tunnel that leads to Tulchulcha. So the Lion's status is completely unknown to them, except for maybe Cypher.
What's the difference between a chapter from the Ultima Founding, with the geneseed of the Lion, discovering the existence of the Fallen and any other chapter of Space Marines ? I don't think there is any.
I never really realized that the primarchs wore helmets
Thank you for making this. I'm making a primaris successor chapter and this info will help alot in writing info about them. 🙂
A very extremely awesome video as always 40k Theories.
I will bet you that there are some Chapter "trades" taking place. Some "installations" of inner circles.
*the Lion awakes*
Lion: what is going on my sons...where is the planet?
Dark angels: DAD your back!!!!
Lion: yeah I fallen and hit my he-
Dark angels loading bolters: WE SHOULD HAVE ALWAYS KNOWN!!!!!!
Given how the Custodes slaughtered the whole Brazen Drakes Primaries reinforcement for their genebearers betrayal, the Ultima founding Unforgiven have no choice but to somehow join the hunt for the fallen.
Yeah but that was poorly written.
Hopefully they'll put more effort into it.
By the way since fallen pretty much have no ways on getting themselves with Primaris Reinforcement, isn't it possible to identify the Fallen to see if they have primaris or Not?
I mean if some space marine group that are looks like fallen, and have No Primaris with them, are More Likely to Be Fallen?
This is actually a really good idea, although its Risky to cross the Rubicon and no doubt thousands of loyal marines still haven't, I'd say by the end of the M42 almost every loyal marine will be Primaris, meaning renegades, and the fallen will be easier to identify.
Unless that group of loyal Dark Angels abandoned their Primaris "bros" wherever they stood side by side when they got word of Fallen's locations and rushed there to get them. Having Primaris among Firstborn requires them to know what all the fuzz is about when they are dealing with said fuzz. Otherwise...shhhh....don't tell them.
One Index Astartes I do want to see is one around a Primaris successor Chapter of the Dark Angels and how learning about the Fallen happened and how and if that information was spread across the Chapter.
"ASMODAI! Was he just discussing the secret shame of the Dark Angels and publicly discussing THE FUCKING FALLEN?!"
I have never been this early and it’s cause of a vid on my chapter! PRAISE THE LION!!!
It seems most likely that the Unforgiven would try to, essentially, infiltrate their Ultima Founding brothers. That would mean waiting until there were enough Primaris in the inner circles of the Unforgiven chapters and then sending them to fight alongside the Ultima Founding Chapters, and allowing them to create their own inner circles, possibility initially excluding the Chapter Masters of those Chapters, until they could be felt out or replaced. This process would take centuries, and not just one or two.
"Ooooooh...kay. At this point you are playing at being stupid. Just tell HIM already so I can go back to acting like we are loyal to the Emperor."
It would make sense as they are Sons of the Lion. (who was the "Bane" to Konrad Curze's "Batman") Although they would need to rise through the ranks to earn the right to know of the secrets of the Chapter. | 0:34 - (Monotone) All hail Big Papa Ultrasmurf. | 3:50 - Well, there is one Primarch that would know...but he hasn't revealed himself yet.
I like the video. Don't think any Ultima founding primaris dark angels would know due to the fact that you mentioned of them being made by Gillman
Regarding those chapters of firstborn marines founded at the Dark Angels behest, I always had my own theory about that. I figured the Deathwing and Ravenwing have no fixed size, right? I always imagined that they, or one of the successors, would get to the point where they could field close to two companies of Deathwing. And that's when they would split them, and get a new chapter made, with DA veterans making up the core of the new chapter. Scout companies also have no fixed size, and DA have no fixed recruiting worlds, so they may have just come upon a very populous recruiting world?
I believe The Lion will be the next Primarch to return and I wonder how he will deal with all of the politics that have infested his Legion.
If BL writers continue with the HH Jonson character arc, then probably not much. In a sense the DA as they are now are just a chip off the old block. Interrogators were already a part of the Legion before the Lions fall. The Lion was regularly secretive about issues, sometimes even from his own legion, but especially his brothers. He was willing to "do what it takes to get the job done", even if it meant collateral damage (something he and Guilliman frequently butted heads over in Imperium Secundus). The final fight with and capture of the Night Haunter is a perfect shadow of the legion to come. They find their quarry, they break the "imperiums" rules in the hunt, they capture quarry, Jonson tries to hide how he broke the rules to capture Curze from Guilliman and Sanguinius, etc. Jonson was fine with breaking rules if he felt the ends would justify the means. That is why he sanctioned the use of psykers during the HH even with the edict of Nikea, imposed a form of marshall law/curfews on Macragge, used Void bombs to get to Curze, etc. Most chapters inherit specific traits from their gene father, whether by chapter culture or actual gene inheritance. Ultramarines have the perfect society/ rulership thing going to them. The Imperial Fists are the builders and defenders. Blood Angels have the angelic nobility, yet red thirst. Space Wolves are boisterous, yet good hearted, and function like a pack. And the DA are secretive, willing to do what it takes for what they believe is the greater good, and rather lethal. All the chapters of the original legions are basically shadows of their gene fathers in tactics, chapter organization, duty, and personality.
I can see a story where an Ultima Founding Dark Angels successor is manipulated by their forbears, using the special status the 1st Founding Chapters have held since the introduction of the Codex.
Considering the new primarius bikes have the ravenwing keyword and it's about a couple centuries now. They'll be under the thumb of the grand master
emperor: Why why would you split them again
guiliman: .......why not.
emperor:.............................
Guiliman: Perfectly balanced, as all things should be
Among Us: Warhammer 40k Edition
"Dark Angels kinda sus"
They may come from dark angels genestock but they are not unforgiven, they do not come from the legion they have nothing to forgive
'Okay... so don't tell dad 'cause you'll get in trouble, too but.... it turns out we have a real traitorous streak in our genes and we're cleaning it up... we swear.... it's like, totally under control... again don't tell dad.... but you now gotta help us hunt our old bros.'
What would the lion do if he found out half his sons turned traitor?
He already knows, given the events that occurred after the Heresy with the battle of Caliban.
I thought it was revealed that Guilliman was aware of the Dark Angels secret. Did they just not know that he knew?
If guilliman does knlw, they probably don't know. And guilliman probably understands more than any other why they are hiding it
Dark Angels just need to come clean. Have a sitdown with Papa Smurf and 'splain, "See...what had happened was..."
since we behold it often, is the artwork of the Eternity Gate official? Does the top depict the emperor battling the dragon of Mars or Horus in a demonic shape?
The art is an official piece from 2nd edition, depicting the Emperor battling a representation of evil (most commonly associated with Horus)
And thats why my personal Ultima Founding DA chapter was taken in by certain very ancient, black clad, obviously loyal DA Veterans to learn the true history of the Primarch and the Legion. (Also just another reason to paint Cypher)
The Dark Angels need to be purged for their treachery!
"Were you loyal, you would set down your weapons and accept your guilt." - Shield-Captain Atal Tyvar of the Adeptus Custodes
I think it was ten thousand years ago and Luther fell into a very tragic decline. The Lion was pretty awful to him, he even admitted it, at least to himself. All the lengths the DA have gone to to protect this secret is simply not worth it. They've allowed it to do far more damage than it otherwise would have.
After the first primarus was inducted i believe that the Supreme Grand Master did in fact make contact with the highest command of the the new Primarus chapters and inform them of there full history. This would indeed be in person and behind closed doors.
One of those dark angels chapters looks like sons of malice with green robes.
Primaris wonders why no Firstborn ever talks to him since arrival and even heated debates stop instantly when he enters. Suddenly he walks by a poster saying: "Primaris lips sink ships".
All of this time, I did not know that the Primaris was Robute's idea. It makes sense now; only one of the Primarchs would dare to alter the Emperor's work . . . .
Man-Emperor: Bout Fucking time
Let's say a primaris captain were to learn a part of the truth about the hunt for the fallen, what would happen to him?
I'm trying to create a chaptre based on that idea, where said captain and his company would be sent to a crusade of attonement, like
-"See this ship? Take it and don't come back"
taking the opportunity to be send away to exerce a critique of the methods of the Dark Angels, and based on that, becoming an entierly new succesor chapter, having the Attitude of knights errant
Is that plausible? i'd like my chapter to be as Lore-friendly as possible
I could see the fallen becoming an issue now that luther is free and the new primaris stock has no idea who he is or what he had done to the primarch
And as a result of this video I am now making a dark angel successor chapter who doesn't know why they have such bad relations with the Dark Angels
Is there an in-universe reason for how Lord Inquisitor Remleiz knows about the Fallen, and so much forbidden or otherwise obscure lore as well?
So is the Supreme Grandmaster of the Dark Angels just fancy ass way of saying captain of the 1st company?
Nope. That would be grand Master of the 1st. Supreme grand Master is the equivalent of a chapter master
The Supreme Grandmaster rank of the Dark Angels infers Azrael is the Leader of the Inner circle, there isn't any secret known the the Dark Angels that he dosn't have access to. In quotes he'd be something like a "Chapter Master" however with how the Dark Angels and their successors are organized you can more or less think of him as the Leader of the First Legion. As Dark Angels successor chapters answer the call of their Parent chapter which is one of the reasons they are accused of "Legion building". Also note I said "known secrets" only the watchers of the dark know that the Lion is alive, Luther probably knows as well but time has taken it's toll.
i wonder if there are anymore Raptor Project Space Marines left?
I began to wonder who is bigger trolls now. Alpha Legion with their „I am Alphariu” or the Fallen with their constant teasing and spooking the Dark Angels.
I am sure some of them do it Just for fun. And if Luther were to unite the Fallen and recreate the Caliban Confederacy they could do some sort of weekly game nights titled „How do we f*ck up Dark Angel’s day.” Or „Best Granpa jokes commision.”
"I just wanna say, I'm a big fan"
Alpharius to Luther, M.31
The higher the risk... The worse it gets...
Primaris tech marines would look awesome
Yay its narrated by Remleiz!
Guilliman has to know something about the Fallen, because of the time he spent with Cypher during the Terran Crusade.
3:57
@@40KTheories Has Guilliman knowing of The Fallen been retconned now? Could've sworn he knew about it or maybe I'm thinking of blood angels not dark angels.
@@joevidya
From memory he knows about both.
Sanguinus told him about the flaws and he knows about the Fallen
Okay so the inner circle control info on the legion to recruits of the chapters, but how do the dark angels explain the disappearance of Caliban and Lion El'Jonson to the wider imperium?
According to the Unforgiven novel series, some of the "lower ranking" Dark Angels are under the impression that Lion El'Jonson was killed during the Horus Heresy, so I would assume that's the story they would tell others who ask.
There was a comment in the recent White Dwarf Dark Angels Index Astartes that the Imperium was making more successors from Dark Angel geneseed to offset the number of Ultramarine successors, so there are probably a lot more than 2! Not named mind.
Hence why we said "at least two" hehe
Before the ultimate flunding there were at least 70 chapters at any given moment but there's only ever 6 mentioned in the codexes so we can take the same treatment with ultima. Theres far far more chapter than the ones mentioned.
Great video, but why wasn't Lazarus mentioned, since he is the first member of the inner circle to cross the rubicon.
What's the name of the background music?
The Primaris have proven their worth. If nothing else, their newer talents will prove them an asset to locate the Fallen.
The fallen? Trippin’.
They know... but it was Cypher who told them.
so..............u harbor any fallen around here?............................ASSSMMMOOODDDAAAAAIIIII!!!!!!
Overtime the Inner Circle can and should integrate Primaris marines raised inside the chapter; however, Guilliman and Cawl's Greyshields can never be fully trusted. They weren't chosen by the chapter, they were not raised, nor indoctrinated in the Dark Angel's culture and tradition and secrets.
Everyone knows that The Dark Angels Order 67 will reform The Dark Angel Legion with all its wings for The Return of The Lion! :-)
The new Dark Angels seem kinda sus.
Perhaps the reason they are so irrationally afraid of anybody finding out about the traitors is because they would be ashamed to admit it to their primarch?
Lion was there and knows of the fallen
I always wondered how many fallen are there in 40K: if it was half of the legion, and Dark angels were a quite sizeable one, there is quite a lot of them, like in the tenth of thousands?. Dark angels, even if not entirely comply with the Gulliman prescriptions, are a standard chapter, made in the very few thousand at best, so how have the core chapter able to withstand such a huge number of fallen if not by sharing informations with the second founding cousin, and how will they be able to keep the secret form the Primaris after the mauling they got in the last dark crusade?
Another thing that always amused me is how GW pretends the fallen is a "well kept secret" from other chapters and even inquisition, when there are half a legion of guys out there assaulting the Imperium wearing outdated Dark Angel battlesuits!
All the fallen dont appear at once, and not all fallen are renegades or traitors. Some don't care either way and others are under the guise that lion is the traitor. Still others are still loyal.
Also its warp fuckery. They were sucked through space and time so when ever they pop out, they pop out. At least that's how I understand it.
Also there are 70 thousand 1st born chapters and all of them have contingents of 1st and 2nd companies that hunt down fallen
I really want to read the novel that addresses this.
I fully expect the Unforgiven would silence any of those Primaris successors to cover up the Fallen
Inquisition is now monitoring the comment section
Great theory.
I'm probably a bit behind the curve but does the Emperor have any scenes in the books where he speaks at least since the time of Thor or indeed the end of the heresy.
Just wondering because it's possible Guillman got his audience, found the Emperor is a pot plant, had a think for 3 days then lied and told everyone his own plans were supported by the Emperor.
This could then prove a problem if any other Primarchs turn up and want to speak to dear old dad.
There is a part in one of the books where Guilliman describes what it was like to talk to the Emperor but nothing about what was talked about besides that the Emperor had some plan in mind. Which wouldn’t surprise me, if you were taking a 10,000 year bathroom break you’d probably come up with some plans. Apparently this one required a Primarch returning.
Wait so if all Dark Angel Successor Chapter Masters under Azrael command. Wouldn't that mean the Dark Angels themselves were Legion Building?
The High Lords have accused the Dark Angels of Legion building on at least one occasion, yes.
@@40KTheories *Laughs in Black Templar estimates*
@@retroicdescent considering the dark angles have at least 70 chapters at any given time, thats at least 70k space marines and those are only the ones the high lords know about. Not to mention the first and 2nd companies dont stop at 100 space marines
themasterninja110 no, the 70 chapters was before the white dwarf article. The 2019 septembers issue of WD states that the High Lords of Terra and inquisition are supporting Unforgiven legion building now in order to counter the rise of power of ultramar. Also the very same article mentions that guiliman himself is pumping out many new Unforgiven chapters because he knows the sons of the Lion fight the hardest and among those least likely to fall into chaos. By now they are atleast 90-100k strong.
@@plasmahdtv I did not know that. Thank you for the update
Oi WATS DEM FALLEN BREAKIE GITTS?
Cool video.
What would happen to the dark angels and their successor chapters, if Gulliman and the rest of the imperium learned of the fallen?
My guess is nothing its not the first time space marines from loyalist chapters have turned traitor, so what would be so special about the dark angels??
They are the first. The others are not
Should we be concerned that one of the primaris marine chapters has the EXACT same color scheme as the Luna Wolves? Let it be known that Cawl suggested the use of traitor gene seed in the primaris project on multiple occasions and was shut down every time by Guiliman. I get the feeling that Cawl went and did it anyway and this is the result. I’ve always wondered how loyalist marines from traitor legions would live and function in the modern Imperium, primaris or not. It’s an open secret that the Blood Ravens are loyalist Thousand Sons, and the Sons of Anteus clearly have Death Guard genes in them, and don’t get me started on the dozen or so chapters that are clearly loyalist Emperor’s Children. So why not primaris?
So when do we get chaos Primaris marines?
yay a dark angels theory
dark angels acting kinda sus
Is it just me or does it sound like Rem says Emprah instead of Emperor?
Lore-noob here. Isn't the fallen a bit of an odd concept? Didn't the fall of caliban all the fallen stuff happen fairly shortly after the Horus Heresy? Wouldn't that mean that any fallen still present today would be incredibly ancient (unless warp shenaningans ofc..)? Just how many fallen can there be left after all that time, either captured or killed by the Dark Angels or simply dying by other causes in a very hostile galaxy? Now they are a cool concept i admit and rule of cool trumphs logic i know, but from a logical standpoint I don't see their existance in the current timelinase as feasible? What am I missing? (Sorry for the bad english)
Warp shenanigans basically. At the end of the hh, Caribana was sucked into the warp along with all the fallen so they are basically spread through out time and space and could appear at any moment amd if they really are chaos, then they don't age that much on top of being space marines. As for how much? I did the math some time ago and it came to be 90k+ at least according to my math and there are hints that it could be elgion strength in the 8th edition codex.
But it basically boils down to warp fuckery
Does this mean Dark Angels successors from the Ultma founding are not members of the unforgivin?