why is it becoming more and more common to see automotive journalists leaving Auto / DSG boxes in automatic modes on track? In manual mode the use of engine braking can be exceptionally beneficial. Yes i'm aware that pressing the brake will tell the computer to shift down etc. however you can be on it quicker yourself with more effective results... also you hear the gearboxes kicking down sometimes as they accelerate out of corners! maybe get in the right gear yourself?? Finally, flooring these cars will always result in revving to the red line with an auto but this isn't necessarily where the peak torque is found... would anyone else not expect these enthusiasts to be using manual mode??? maybe it's just me...
Need to do 2 runs swapping driver. Having different drivers means a lot comes down to skill instead of the car. Doing 2 runs swapping drivers would give a much better comparison.
If the R was on the same sticky tyres as the clubsport s they would have been very close. Was expecting more from a track focused car with no rear seats.
The standing start gave the R a huge advantage. A flying lap would increase the difference between the two by at least 1 second. Even as it is, 1 second is a big difference on this short course - 2 seconds is, in racing - an eternity on this length of track.
Great video, this is how the cars came from the showroom/factory. People below say swap this/swap that. The only thing I would swap if folk want to get fussy is, all cars have DSG and all cars have the same wheel and tyres, no matter what rubber they are. that would be interesting but would cost a bloody fortune to set up. The test above is what you get with your cheque book from a showroom near you.
Now its time to have a race against all VW Golfs 7...The GTI,GTI PP,Clubsport,Clubsport S and R...That would be a great race to watch and see how they all perform on the 1/4 mile.Please make it happen.Thanks
Fact is, the Haldex 5 system in the Golf R, S3 and RS3 are garbage for spririted driving or track work. They are all open diff systems. Which means as soon as the inside wheel unloads, the fun stops. LSD is the only way to go and the GTI clubsport s is the real deal!
Yes and take the passenger seat out and all the carpets, sound deadening, sat nav, all the air bags, spare wheel, jack and tool kit, may aswell add slick tyres and DS11 brake pads as well, where do you stop. The comparisons are of cars straight from the showroom, pay yer money and take your choice.
Not driving the GTD or DSG cars properly. He moans about the red line at 5k RPM. why is he driving a diesel to the Redline when the power/torque runs out earlier ? DSG.... guys, Jesus drive it properly, it shifts massively quicker than you can in manual mode by pumping your left leg up and down whilst stirring the gearbox. Wasn't expecting such a Gap between the GTD/E... I wonder, was the E in hybrid mode or just running petrol only? wouldn't surprise me given the DSG looked like it was in Automatic mode in every car equipped with it.
GTE was a disappointment in terms of acceleration as its supposedly quicker than the GTD on paper and some claim quicker than the quoted figures. No surprises round the corners though due to the weight.
From my experience the GTD is not as quick as the GTE but ONLY if the GTE is actually in GTE mode. I feel the GTE is not represented correctly here, it is an excellent car, but maybe not in GTE mode for this test? Mine will happily manage 60 MPH in 6.5 seconds, I am sure it could do more. It has more power, more Torque (but more weight) and more opportunity to use that torque than the GTD. It's incorrect official 0-60 time is well documented, perhaps to make it fit in more with the marketing the green and economical side.
Your right Ive owned both and currently have a 17 plate GTE advance and there is no way the GTD is quicker or nicer to drive. The guy driving the GTE looks like he's 'driving Miss daisy'.
Yeah I own a Golf GTE, he doesn’t know how to drive. You have to use manual and know how to launch it as it’s got a lot of torque and just slips. Traction control doesn’t help at all, just your feet do the job. No way the gtd can be faster, as experienced with friends. I also remapped mine after a while and it’s got 240bhp 400Nm now just from the ecu. Downvote for me. All the tests anyway haven’t been done properly.
Now remove 1.5" - 2" from the R's time (standing starts on a track test? that's a new one) and put the CS on its standard lightweight wheels instead of this optional, heavyweight atrocities and it's not only the best driver's car but also the quickest. As it has been in every other non VW sponsored test that doesn't need to respect manufacturers guidelines/model hierarchy to publish its results and opinions (EVO, Top Gear etc.) PS. Anyone claiming the R not being on the PSC2 is the reason it's not the fastest has clearly not driven anything at the limit on a track, ever, and probably not even in a video game. The dynamics, steering and handling on both the CS and CS-S are far superior than in the R and you can't make up for it simply by being on the same rubber.
flip1960 after seeing this, the club sport is the way to go. Lighter and still has that trademark red line in the grill so you see that bitch comin lol
I love the looks of the Clubsport S and I'm sure they're a lot fun but they make no sense. For 10 grand less than the cheapest Clubsport S you can get a Golf R with not too many miles and fit it with Cup 2's, it will be as fast in the dry, a lot faster in the wet and is more practical and comfortable to live with. Or probably the better option (if your somewhere like the UK where its cold and wet at least half the time) just put/leave it on Pilot Sport 4's and give it a stage 1 map to take it to a different level whereas any more power in the Clubsport S and you'll probably ruin it.
I like how this dude tried to get in the “fastest golf” but picked the wrong one in the end. Lol dude was more butt hurt about losing then reviewing the car.
Don't forget this was a standing start where the R benefits greatly from AWD launch. The difference between the CS-S and R would easily be 1 second more on a flying lap.
airjaff i dont think it would let you watch the video if you didnt watch the add. I know adverts are really annoying and i can remember a time were there was no adverts all on youtube but its all just a money making thing for google. Can you imagine how much google make from the adds just alone from youtube??!
"Hot" LOL More like barely approaching tepid. How about more concentration on the racing line, and less in-car commentary? (and such a "sport-y sound" @3:18 and 3:22 ;-)
Looks like we have a major armchair warrior here. The GTE and GTD are basically economy cars and plenty fast for that, the Clubsport S holds the NOS record for FWD cars and the regular Clubsport, GTI and R are plenty fast for being glorified shopping cars, the R is even faster around this track than a Aston Martin Vantage V8 S and the Lotus Evora. I generally really dislike VW's but calling them"barely approaching tepid" is just bure bullshit.
"major armchair warrior" - LOL, hyperbolize much? it's just the first opinion on here, jeez. It clearly looks like they're off the line, tires barely stressing and just pooting along - what did you expect? if it takes "another video" to qualify this video...whatever. done with this.
Would you rather be called a minor armchair warrior? These videos are entertainment, first and foremost. And yeah video aside, these are quite phenomenal hatchbacks. Calling them tepid seems like an injustice to the fun they bring.
Not at all the issue. The Golf R is only faster off the line. Once at speed, the Clubsport S' additional power and lower weight help accelerate past the R, especially in corners. The added downforce helps too. I love my Golf R, but it's not a track car like the CS.
Nonsense. People used to poke fun at other VW group cars for being poor, or rich mans copies of the Golf, now there's six 'hot Golfs'!? It suggests that Golf owners know virtually nothing about what they're being sold and don't care either - "I know I want a Golf Gti, but which of the 6 fast Golf-like Gti's do I want??".... Just build one Gti and a special edition. Where are the Audis, Seats and Skodas for comparison?
Partly agree - VW are confusing the GTI these days, and actually find the R is selling more than the GTI. For example I have an R, because the GTI ended up costing the same after discounts and options! So to battle their own R sales...VW need to vary the GTI to attract more people. Performance Pack, more power, more hardcore etc. However the GTD has always been their fast diesel, the GTI their hot hatch and the R their "hyper" hatch. GTE is new generation of car but I don't consider it a "hot hatch" since it's too slow. I didn't like other VW Group cars except the Audi S3, though it felt less exciting to drive than the R - and the R isn't THAT exciting anyways. The RS3 was amazing to drive on the road and the sound is beautiful - best hyper hatch I've ever driven - but it's Audi S5 money when you add options onto the RS3. Seat have the Leon Cupra R and the interior is average, but more fun to drive than a GTI and R for sure. But it seems to have gone through a lot of revamps - went from 261PS in 2014, 276PS in 2015, 290PS in 2016 and now a 300PS in 2017. First they were targeting GTI-buyers, now they're targeting R-buyers. But Seat decided against releasing a whole new "Leon Cupra RS" or something...but confusing for buyers, especially 2nd hand sellers who will struggle to shift a 2014 261PS car against an identical looking 290PS 2016 version... Skoda don't have a hot hatch? Only even seen the Octavia vRS on the road.
Question is , in what mode was the GTE used, because there is a huge difference between the modes,
why is it becoming more and more common to see automotive journalists leaving Auto / DSG boxes in automatic modes on track? In manual mode the use of engine braking can be exceptionally beneficial. Yes i'm aware that pressing the brake will tell the computer to shift down etc. however you can be on it quicker yourself with more effective results... also you hear the gearboxes kicking down sometimes as they accelerate out of corners! maybe get in the right gear yourself?? Finally, flooring these cars will always result in revving to the red line with an auto but this isn't necessarily where the peak torque is found... would anyone else not expect these enthusiasts to be using manual mode??? maybe it's just me...
Maybe its a truer comparison to leave the gear shifts to the car.
Need to do 2 runs swapping driver. Having different drivers means a lot comes down to skill instead of the car. Doing 2 runs swapping drivers would give a much better comparison.
At the end they showed the times all done by the same driver
@@jamesshives5679 how do you know the times were done by the same driver?
@@mariodiniz21 At 8:20 he says they did those final times on screen, "with James at the wheel to remove the driver variable."
I wonder how the GTE and GTD would go with the same tyres as the CS-S? Or even better the tyres and diff.
Not a fair test really they need same tyres and same driver.
Test the TCR?
If the R was on the same sticky tyres as the clubsport s they would have been very close. Was expecting more from a track focused car with no rear seats.
100% what I was expecting.
gordon238 the R has no chance against clubsport s on the track! No matter it has sport tyres or back seats.
gordon238 Sticky tyres wouldn't make up for a difference of 130kilos
2 less doors on the R might have helped ;)
The standing start gave the R a huge advantage. A flying lap would increase the difference between the two by at least 1 second. Even as it is, 1 second is a big difference on this short course - 2 seconds is, in racing - an eternity on this length of track.
He left he GTE in full auto, notice the fact that he didn't touch the paddle when the gears changed.
What do we think a GTI PP DSG would've done? 1:24?
Great video, this is how the cars came from the showroom/factory. People below say swap this/swap that. The only thing I would swap if folk want to get fussy is, all cars have DSG and all cars have the same wheel and tyres, no matter what rubber they are. that would be interesting but would cost a bloody fortune to set up. The test above is what you get with your cheque book from a showroom near you.
What a dilemma!....The MK7-R? or the Clubsport S?....But what a dilemma to have....oh the possibilities!!!!....:)....
not really, the clubsport s is very rare
Clubsport S is a much much more capable car.
I wonder where the new TCR would stand?? 🤔 Maybe better than R?
Fun comparison, good vid!
Why is the golf r and the clubsport s drivers seat on different sides
Isaac Knight Golf culbsport wasn't a "UK" Car it was a import press car
The times posted in the end were done by the same driver? If they were the Clubsport time is really disappointing
Now its time to have a race against all VW Golfs 7...The GTI,GTI PP,Clubsport,Clubsport S and R...That would be a great race to watch and see how they all perform on the 1/4 mile.Please make it happen.Thanks
Fact is, the Haldex 5 system in the Golf R, S3 and RS3 are garbage for spririted driving or track work. They are all open diff systems. Which means as soon as the inside wheel unloads, the fun stops. LSD is the only way to go and the GTI clubsport s is the real deal!
You should have done the base GTI against the R
Look at the times at the end...the GTI was 3 seconds slower.
Get the GTD and remap it. That’s what I did and it’s great!
Get the GTE and remap it. That’s what I did and it’s great
@@fer1306 no no the GTD
How about taking the back seats out of the R and adding sticky tires.
Yes and take the passenger seat out and all the carpets, sound deadening, sat nav, all the air bags, spare wheel, jack and tool kit, may aswell add slick tyres and DS11 brake pads as well, where do you stop. The comparisons are of cars straight from the showroom, pay yer money and take your choice.
Do that with every car too, not just the r.
Or just use a Caterham for every test.
Not driving the GTD or DSG cars properly. He moans about the red line at 5k RPM. why is he driving a diesel to the Redline when the power/torque runs out earlier ?
DSG.... guys, Jesus drive it properly, it shifts massively quicker than you can in manual mode by pumping your left leg up and down whilst stirring the gearbox.
Wasn't expecting such a Gap between the GTD/E... I wonder, was the E in hybrid mode or just running petrol only? wouldn't surprise me given the DSG looked like it was in Automatic mode in every car equipped with it.
Stick tyres and only pulled 1 sec out? Lmao
I want the club sport S
GTE was a disappointment in terms of acceleration as its supposedly quicker than the GTD on paper and some claim quicker than the quoted figures. No surprises round the corners though due to the weight.
From my experience the GTD is not as quick as the GTE but ONLY if the GTE is actually in GTE mode.
I feel the GTE is not represented correctly here, it is an excellent car, but maybe not in GTE mode for this test? Mine will happily manage 60 MPH in 6.5 seconds, I am sure it could do more. It has more power, more Torque (but more weight) and more opportunity to use that torque than the GTD. It's incorrect official 0-60 time is well documented, perhaps to make it fit in more with the marketing the green and economical side.
Shoot McRunfast Forgot I'd commented on this! Since then I've ordered a GTE which should arrive in September 😀
I also wonder if they had the thing fully charged.....?
Your right Ive owned both and currently have a 17 plate GTE advance and there is no way the GTD is quicker or nicer to drive. The guy driving the GTE looks like he's 'driving Miss daisy'.
Yeah I own a Golf GTE, he doesn’t know how to drive. You have to use manual and know how to launch it as it’s got a lot of torque and just slips. Traction control doesn’t help at all, just your feet do the job.
No way the gtd can be faster, as experienced with friends.
I also remapped mine after a while and it’s got 240bhp 400Nm now just from the ecu.
Downvote for me. All the tests anyway haven’t been done properly.
Nice deep electronic tracks in the background 👍🏾 compared to the garbage EDM I hear in the newer car reviews
6:27 See ya. Just need sticky tyres I reckon to hold the lead!
Now remove 1.5" - 2" from the R's time (standing starts on a track test? that's a new one) and put the CS on its standard lightweight wheels instead of this optional, heavyweight atrocities and it's not only the best driver's car but also the quickest. As it has been in every other non VW sponsored test that doesn't need to respect manufacturers guidelines/model hierarchy to publish its results and opinions (EVO, Top Gear etc.)
PS. Anyone claiming the R not being on the PSC2 is the reason it's not the fastest has clearly not driven anything at the limit on a track, ever, and probably not even in a video game. The dynamics, steering and handling on both the CS and CS-S are far superior than in the R and you can't make up for it simply by being on the same rubber.
Idontwantausernamist Well said.
Lightweight wheels or not, the CS is not quicker than the CS-S.
Men the Golf gti clubsports s is nice I better own one to beat a golf R maybe
compare it to an astra vxr on track.
It will break down.
R best golf ever
Amen - Love mine
Steve Hughes love mine as well!
flip1960 after seeing this, the club sport is the way to go. Lighter and still has that trademark red line in the grill so you see that bitch comin lol
Never gona look as Mean as my GTI Clubsport in Carbon steel grey, black roof & 90 % Tinted... ;)
Agreed 🤚
Not bad. But, seriously, nomex?
why are you driving in full automatic mode on a track ...
Closest thing to touge I've seen coming out of a western car show ;)
Tires in the R comparison are a huge difference. And you should swap drivers for each head-to-head to negate that issue.
The Clubsport S is also almost 300 pounds lighter, in addition to the tires that helps a lot as well. Too bad they never made the R400.
I love the looks of the Clubsport S and I'm sure they're a lot fun but they make no sense. For 10 grand less than the cheapest Clubsport S you can get a Golf R with not too many miles and fit it with Cup 2's, it will be as fast in the dry, a lot faster in the wet and is more practical and comfortable to live with. Or probably the better option (if your somewhere like the UK where its cold and wet at least half the time) just put/leave it on Pilot Sport 4's and give it a stage 1 map to take it to a different level whereas any more power in the Clubsport S and you'll probably ruin it.
Cup 2’s feels a bit unfair to add in... you could’ve fitted that to any of the others for a couple hundred pounds and it would be a massive gain... :/
I like how this dude tried to get in the “fastest golf” but picked the wrong one in the end. Lol dude was more butt hurt about losing then reviewing the car.
Next, try it on a wet track...
Sticky tyres on the R would be so close.
James Lovett sticky tires and two less doors ;)
Don't forget this was a standing start where the R benefits greatly from AWD launch. The difference between the CS-S and R would easily be 1 second more on a flying lap.
Golf wins !!
Brother, you are in a golf r, and you lost it.
making me watch a full advert gets a thumbs down for me! yes I have ad block. it doesn't work
airjaff i dont think it would let you watch the video if you didnt watch the add. I know adverts are really annoying and i can remember a time were there was no adverts all on youtube but its all just a money making thing for google. Can you imagine how much google make from the adds just alone from youtube??!
Just hit fast forward twice.
It'll take you straight to the end of the ad.
That guy James is a LOUSY DRIVER !!!
"Hot" LOL
More like barely approaching tepid.
How about more concentration on the racing line, and less in-car commentary?
(and such a "sport-y sound" @3:18 and 3:22 ;-)
If you'd like to, you can watch the individual timed laps in our playlist here: goo.gl/2dNuI6
Looks like we have a major armchair warrior here. The GTE and GTD are basically economy cars and plenty fast for that, the Clubsport S holds the NOS record for FWD cars and the regular Clubsport, GTI and R are plenty fast for being glorified shopping cars, the R is even faster around this track than a Aston Martin Vantage V8 S and the Lotus Evora. I generally really dislike VW's but calling them"barely approaching tepid" is just bure bullshit.
"major armchair warrior" - LOL, hyperbolize much? it's just the first opinion on here, jeez. It clearly looks like they're off the line, tires barely stressing and just pooting along - what did you expect? if it takes "another video" to qualify this video...whatever.
done with this.
shaft9000 How does their driving affect the cars quality as a hot hatch?!
Would you rather be called a minor armchair warrior?
These videos are entertainment, first and foremost. And yeah video aside, these are quite phenomenal hatchbacks. Calling them tepid seems like an injustice to the fun they bring.
How does he lose after such a clean pull off,The Golf 7 R is faster just needs a better driver with proper handling skills.
Not at all the issue. The Golf R is only faster off the line. Once at speed, the Clubsport S' additional power and lower weight help accelerate past the R, especially in corners. The added downforce helps too. I love my Golf R, but it's not a track car like the CS.
Dh
Forgot the golf r32
Which one?
No Clubsport let alone Clubsport S for the US! It is a crime :/
Nonsense. People used to poke fun at other VW group cars for being poor, or rich mans copies of the Golf, now there's six 'hot Golfs'!? It suggests that Golf owners know virtually nothing about what they're being sold and don't care either - "I know I want a Golf Gti, but which of the 6 fast Golf-like Gti's do I want??".... Just build one Gti and a special edition.
Where are the Audis, Seats and Skodas for comparison?
Partly agree - VW are confusing the GTI these days, and actually find the R is selling more than the GTI. For example I have an R, because the GTI ended up costing the same after discounts and options! So to battle their own R sales...VW need to vary the GTI to attract more people. Performance Pack, more power, more hardcore etc.
However the GTD has always been their fast diesel, the GTI their hot hatch and the R their "hyper" hatch. GTE is new generation of car but I don't consider it a "hot hatch" since it's too slow.
I didn't like other VW Group cars except the Audi S3, though it felt less exciting to drive than the R - and the R isn't THAT exciting anyways. The RS3 was amazing to drive on the road and the sound is beautiful - best hyper hatch I've ever driven - but it's Audi S5 money when you add options onto the RS3.
Seat have the Leon Cupra R and the interior is average, but more fun to drive than a GTI and R for sure. But it seems to have gone through a lot of revamps - went from 261PS in 2014, 276PS in 2015, 290PS in 2016 and now a 300PS in 2017. First they were targeting GTI-buyers, now they're targeting R-buyers. But Seat decided against releasing a whole new "Leon Cupra RS" or something...but confusing for buyers, especially 2nd hand sellers who will struggle to shift a 2014 261PS car against an identical looking 290PS 2016 version...
Skoda don't have a hot hatch? Only even seen the Octavia vRS on the road.
I thought golf r was winner before this video!!! It is reverse!!!
Scripeted.
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