KingdomCraft: What should Church music be like?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ธ.ค. 2022
- Music:
The first song is the music for Psalm 124 of the Genevan Psalter by Claude Goudimel. The lyrics to that can be found here:
genevanpsalter.com/music-and-...
The rest of the music is written by me.
"I don't recommend anyone listen to Cardi B for the sake of retaining their hearin." - Redeemed Zoomer based 2023
Based most cardi b music sounds like vomit with bad rap In the background
That's why Cardi B stands for Cardiovacular Bronchitis.
This was 2022 lol
@@billotron5521 you are correct, by ~20 days
@@traznianwow, that's a fast reply
I'm a big fan of Christian metal & rock but i do appreciate the traditional hymns as well
Facts
Another thing is, what should be listened to like normal music and what should be sung in church. A lot of contemporary music works best with the way it was initially performed.
@@CaptainX2012 i agree
There’s nothing wrong with Christian rock … it just belongs on the radio, not in a sacred place!
It its actually good rock.
You are well educated on the components of sacred music. Please, if you can, do more videos relating to this topic.
Haha thank you, one of my college majors is music
@@redeemedzoomer6053 I majored in Music Technology, and Music History was one of my favorite courses. It’s amazing how much Christianity inspired music and art throughout human history. For example, some of the oldest known sheet music are for Gregorian Chants.
@@redeemedzoomer6053 thanks for the gospel shout out
While I definitely agree that older Christian music is generally better, I do think that some modern Christian music is great to listen to outside of church like when you’re on your computer working on something, for example. Any Christian music is better than the terrible stuff most people listen to nowadays.
Roman Catholic organist from Germany here; I agree that sacral music really elevates the service to something ethereal. We share most songs with the Protestants churches and love our Bach. Music can really be a heavenly language which beauty can reach anybody without even understanding the words
Hey greetings brother, I am ALSO a Roman Catholic Organist from Germany (and a zoomer lol).
The feeling of transcendentality music gives us never ceases to amaze me. Maybe I will make some contemporary Christian music one day that elevates you when listening to it.
Gott schütze dich! ❤
@@realrghnck Gott schütze dich ebenfalls!
As an Australian who is a fellow gen z'er, conservative Christian and classical musician who is extremely disturbed by the infiltration of contemporary music into my Catholic parish, I think this is the right channel for me.
I agree with a lot of what you said here. I've even heard that folks used to contemporary-sounding Christian music in church aren't always fond of it. Some folks talk about "7-11" songs. meaning the same seven words repeated eleven times. And some of them think there are too many songs that ignore scripture altogether, and just sing about what God can do for you now or in the future. They call these songs "Jesus is your bestie", or even "Jesus is your boyfriend". As for me, I think "Silent Night" is better than at least 90% of all other Christmas songs, secular or otherwise, composed since.
BTW, it was a red-letter day for me. I recently committed to reading a copy of the Bible all the way through, and today, I actually got through all of Leviticus, probably the hardest-to-read book in all of scripture.
lmao, not even a minuite in and you are already taking shots at non-denom 😂
I feel attacked.
but then again... I don't like our music much either... lol
@@Swiftninjatrev dude then you just aren’t listening to the right stuff! Check out MBL worship! Also UPPERROOM and VOUS worship
@@howardparkes8787 Haha, will do. I love Sovereign Grace Music, and Shane and Shane and City Alight. My church plays some of their songs too.
@@howardparkes8787 What? Those are the artists that make more theologically rich songs.
The worship leader at my Baptist church sings in a "country rock" style and it drives me up the wall. They added a chorus to "A Mighty Fortress is our God!!!" My husband was practically holding me back from jumping over the pew and storming the stage
ive never been so entertained by a monolog you know so many incredibly intresting things i love hymns so much more than modern too
I tend to agree. Where I’m from here in the South (and other parts of the US) we have the Sacred Harp choral tradition which I desperately want to make a comeback down here (beautiful songs include Idumea, Ortonville, Corinth, Golden Streets etc). I think it definitely qualifies as sacred music.
I think the biggest thing is how influential and the message behind the music matters the most, especially when it gets you closer or just wanting to know God more. Growing up listening to the music my grandmother and her peers sung did not get me closer or want to know God more, however when artists like Kirk Franklin and Mary Mary came along I become more interested in God and wanting to know Him. Traditional is to be respected but with the change of times so should the sound, as long as the uplifting of His Kingdom is the main goal, I think God would appreciate it.
I appreciate that you wrote pieces based on FREU DICH SEHR, O MEINE SEELE and OLD 124TH, and included them in this video.
And those are just the ones I noticed and recognized! I’m sure there were more that I either missed or didn’t know the tune they were based off of.
Nope, that's not where those melodies are originally from. They're originally from the Genevan Psalter, written in the 1500s by Claude Goudimel, commissioned by John Calvin
@@redeemedzoomer6053 This is true. I just listed them under the tune names I was familiar with from my hymnal.
I just realized you literally go to my church (HP Pres)! I almost burned myself while cooking when I heard you say that. Hope to see you one day! You actually evangelized me
He's not calling contemporary Christian music displeasing to God because it's "not good enough". His opinion is that it sounds bad and not at all sacred.
I disagree, but we must note that these are all opinions. A fact would be that: All man made worship is insufficient to glorfy God to the level He deserves. And what pleases God is a sincere heart that Loves Him. If effort is given to express that love through music, no matter the type, God appreciates it as much as that person put an effort to do so, according the level of their ability.
Agree completely. It’s a bit close-minded. I know a lot of talented guitarists, pianists, singers, bass players and drummers who enjoy offering up their skills to God during praise and worship and were called to do so. We shouldn’t just stop contemporary Christian music in church just for the sake of singing hymns. One of the things that’s missing in this video is the condition of the heart, rather than just the quality of music.
I agree with the premise that there is natural beauty but I don't believe you provide enough evidence to prove that certain genres are naturally beautiful. An example of what I'm looking for: we all know that there is an objective morality, even most atheists. However how can we know what is objectively right and wrong? Well as Christians we have a Bible which tells us exactly what is right and wrong. Back to music, while there certainly is objective beauty and objective trash, we have no metric or instruction as to what is what. So unfortunately measuring beauty comes back to what the individual thinks is objectively beautiful (differing from post-modernist subjectivity in that one believes something is objective, yet that differs from what another believes is objective). So your metric for what should be sacred music is what sounds other-worldly and ethereal. One could disagree that this should be the standard and another could disagree on what genres sounds other-worldly or ethereal. So without an infallible metric for beauty and music like the Bible, then appealing to tradition or to one's interpretation of what is beautiful is not sufficient to prove that XYZ genre is naturally beautiful or sacred.
Furthermore, your rejection of contemporary Christian music, acoustic guitars, Christian versions of popular genres, and 'folksy' sounding music doesn't make much sense to me. For Biblical reference the Psalms is the only book of the Bible that is entirely worship music. Many Psalms reference harps, lyres, unidentified stringed instruments (obviously not a guitar, but there's no reason a guitar can't be used in modern worship if other stringed instruments are encouraged for worship), cymbals, organs, flutes, and trumpets. While some of these were probably solely for use in worship, something like a flute, lyre, or harp were much more common instruments that we know historically would be used for entertainment. So although these instruments might have been considered the Hebrew equivalent of 'folksy' at the time, David had no hesitation in using them for worship. In Psalm 8 something called the instrument of Gath (Gath being Israel's evil arch-nemesis at the time) is used in worship! And Psalm 9 is set to the tune of an unknown song called "Death of the Son", and assuming that it's not a prophetic song lost to time, David used the tune of a funeral song and changed the lyrics to make it a worship song! (Who would have thought that King David pioneered religious parody.) So, I don't see the problem at all with any of the things listed at the beginning.
TL;DR
Basically, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and we have no instruction on what is and isn't considered sacred music. It is arbitrary, and this video doesn't give us any evidence that contemporary actually is bad.
Love the video here! I also think that secular music may be adopted into church hymn, if only it is properly befitting the glory of the Lord. For instance, the well-known hymn tune "AUSTRIA". You may be familiar with the history of the tune that eventually became the tune for German National Anthem. Secular in origin, and yet is a proper tune for the hymn "Glorious Things of Thee Are Spoken". It fits to a hymn of praise for the King of kings. Or FINLANDIA by Sibellius (that was created as a covert celebration of Finnish identity) is a tune for the hymn "Be Still, My Soul". It is secular in nature, but a comforting tune for the heart with heavy laden.
Some other notes, perhaps, concerning Catholics and the current issue of their worship:
1. Catholics may be singing Byzantine chant (or hymns of other eastern Christianity), because they have a particular body of churches called Eastern Catholicism, in which each of them is in full communion with the Church of Rome. They historically came from various Eastern traditions (Byzantine / Oriental / Assyrian Church of the East even!) that separated themselves from their respective original orthodox church body (which has been one of the stumbling block in Catholic-Orthodox / Catholic-Oriental / Catholic-Assyrian Church dialogues).
2. Catholics (as far as I know in Southeast Asian) have been allowing Charismatic Pentecostal element (including some cringe modern worship music) in their liturgy to some degree, depending on the opinion of the local bishop.
By strange coincidence, we actually sang the one that sounds like Deustclandlied at the end of mass today
Another example of an originally secular piece that later became a hymn is "God, the Omnipotent." It was originally composed in the early 19th century by Alexei Lvov and, under the title Боже, Царя храни! (transliterated Russian: Bozhe, Tsarya khrani!, English: God Save the Tsar!), was selected as the national anthem of the Russian Empire. An Englishman, Henry Chorley, set new lyrics to the Russian melody, and transposed it from Lvov's original key of F# down to D, about a decade later. To this day, some hymnals use the title "Russian Hymn" or some variant thereof for the piece, though most adopted the first three words of Chorley's lyrics, "God, the Omnipotent," as the title.
16:52 This is a really good point, thank you for pointing this out to me.
Church music shouldn't be a jig, something that makes you "want to move", or something that puts lyrical message over composition. Not "emotional". Beautiful.
So why is Hillsong bad exactly? I don't have them in my place of worship and I don't listen to them, but they don't sound bad to me.
I think you are being ignorant of non-western music. It can be beautifull, and it is perfectly valid. I like listening to like traditional south-asian stuff. Music wasn't invented by the church. It has been created in many isolated cultures over the cource of history.
Large portions of music definitely were made by the church
@@David-bh7hs large portions of WESTERN music, that is NOTHING compared to music as a whole. It is just A system not THE system. Also, there is no such thing as THE church.
@@birthdefectthehedgehog3461 take meds
@@David-bh7hs WHY, SO I CAN BECOME ONE OF THEM?!?!? I'll be chill, I just find it slightly annoying, and just typical amarican chritian shit, to believe something as proposterus as the church invented music.
He quite literally pointed this out in the video.
Found your channel through Ruslan KD - Really enjoyed hearing your views on sacred music in the church!
I feel like it’s important to note that Rock and Roll, Blues/ R&B, and Jazz (so called secular genres) originated from early 20th century Black gospel music.
Much of those early black gospel musicians and their songs came from the Christian church or profess Christ in their lyrics.
One clear example to look up is Sister Rosetta Tharpe
Video games use traditional music more than modern Christians lol.
There are some great hymns. There are many trash hymns. There are some great modern worship songs, and there are many, many trash modern worship songs.
The problem with saying "we should only use good music in church" is that the idea of good music is completely subjective and based on human taste. God gives us no indication of what is and isn't 'Good' music.
The real question isn't about style for me, there are many other questions though.
1. Is the music distracting in any way?
2. Are the lyrics theologically sound?
3. Do you know what you are singing? There's no worship in singing words that you don't understand, except maybe that they are at least being sung to God. That said, if you don't know what you are singing, you don't know if they are theologically sound or not, do you?
4. Old doesn't mean good.
5. Old doesn't mean bad.
6. New doesn't mean good.
7. New doesn't mean bad.
I've studied music for most of my life. Bach is a total genius, but he absolutely bores me to death, and therefore I struggle to worship because I'm distracted by my hate of Bach.
I currently worship at a church that uses the organ for worship, and that's fine, but I just tend to prefer a more modern, varied sound. Even with all the varied stops on an organ, the sound is just so monotonous to me, and therefore I struggle to worship effectively because of that.
The other distracting thing I find is that a lot of hymns and songs just sound like nursery rhymes to me. The melodies just sound infantile, and that goes across the board from ancient to modern.
On the other end of the spectrum, I can't think of anything worse than visiting a stadium full of people going to a service AHEMconcertAHEM every Sunday, spending 10 minutes every song, singing the same 4 lines over and over. It feels very self-oriented and not very worshipful to me.
Not to mention, the pipe organ wasn't around when the church started, in fact it came much, much later in the 16th century, so there's nothing biblical or especially holy about organ music.
We also have to take into account that not every country uses/used modern, western harmony. There are many other styles and genres that have been brought out of various different countries and cultures. You are just as capable of worshipping God with a sitar as you are with a pipe organ and choir, or a 16 member band with drum kit, guitars and synths.
the "well we don't have the money" thing is such obvious cope when you remember there are strictly no instruments whatsoever in almost every Eastern Orthodox church, we simply rely on the human voice. If money is there excuse then surely they shouldn't be buying guitars and PA systems (not to mention that the evangelical churches of the US are insanely rich compared to the little antiochian chapel i attend)
By Jove, you pulled no punches, brother! You did not hesitate to offend so many of the "sacred cows" of today's liturgical ethos and overall evangelical theology, and for that alone you have my admiration.
I am pretty much in agreement with everything you said, and halfway through the video, I have only one minor remark to make, about the "not enough money" argument:
It is well known that real, acoustic pipe organs are the ideal for Christian church music, and should always be preferred to electronic alternatives, but it is true that they are a big investment which not all churches can afford.
HOWEVER.
A good and comprehensive digital organ with two manuals and pedal can be bought for $9k or less (and that for a new product, not second-hand). The absolute cheapest ones cost about $3k and still get the job done well when it comes to hymn leading (and some of the literature as well). The electronic organ setup which I have assembled at my church cost EVEN LESS than that.
So yeah, the point about costs is entirely moot. If you can afford the necessary equipment for a praise band (at a bare minimum: guitar, bass, keys, drums, console, amplification), then you can definitely afford an electronic organ at the very least.
"God of Mercy and Compassion" goes hard
bro your whole argument is just based on your opinion on what sounds good.
Take it this way. For a compositional piano festival, my piano teacher ripped out my classical era styled composition and forced me to write Avante Garde music because it's just the 'style of today'.
And by the way I hate Avante Garde and all that impressionist hippy dippy stuff.
Worship, like all music, changes throughout history and like me, you can't change the sad fact that Avant Garde music is just the latest form of Western Art Music.
you're assuming that beauty is subjective, but most of Christianity has seen beauty as objective
@@redeemedzoomer6053 Exactly. If I were to put a blindfold on you and play FORTUNATUS NEW for you on the organ, I’m betting you would recognize that it’s good. If I were to then play an organ transcription of Trading My Sorrows, it would be immediately apparent that it’s inferior in more ways than one. And that is after eliminating such factors as text and instrument choice. In fact, even if I were to do it on the native instrument of Trading My Sorrows, and had to rewrite FORTUNATUS NEW, I still think FORTUNATUS NEW would win.
The former is better in terms of having a melody and theory. Its melody is more intricate and militant, and features glorious high notes. The chord progression features changes more frequently, and the changes are more interesting, rather than just using the same three chords over and _over_ and OVER.
@@redeemedzoomer6053 He's not necessarily assuming subjectivity. As I detailed in my other comment, the problem is that you presented no objective standard on which to differentiate objective beauty and objective trash. The extent of your reasoning was that "some music sounds sacred and ethereal". But who said that 'sacred and ethereal' is the standard of beauty and who can determine what music is or is not sacred and ethereal? If you something along the lines of 'Well everyone is able to naturally tell what is beautiful and what isn't', well then who's assuming subjectivity now?
Why can't contemporary worship be beautiful? That sounds confrontational, but it's a genuine question I have. The beauty of music has changed over the years, for example, music like Mozart or Beethoven was considered good music 500 years ago, stuff like Elvis was considered good music 60 years ago, and today, stuff like indie pop, and hip hop is considered good music. Why is the "old" music only good? Why can't new and old music be beautiful and glorifying to God alike?
Much of what you're saying here has touchpoints with the second chapter of Kierkegaard's "Either-Or", called "the Musical Erotic". You should check it out if you haven't already, it's an interesting read from a Christian apologetic. Great video by the way!
Bedroom Gospel by Montell Fish. It's a very heartfelt Christian bedroom pop album. I don't like it because it's "bedroom pop + Christian". I like it because he's authentically using his musical style to worship God and it's just a fat vibe
Montell slaps
Ur theme song here would be fun for a brass section to play. Lots of up an down emboucher
Speaking of music, could you experiment with putting bach chorales as the background music?
instant subscribe
I've been setting your videos on while I work and enjoying them, so when I say this I mean it charitably...your background music is a bit to loud in this video and I think would be even better without it, I like hearing the keyboard and game noises and obviously your voice.
Keep making these, God bless!.
The first time I heard "In the End" by Linkin Park was as apart of a Christian summer camp worship service around 2001-02. Didn't really help with my faith but it made me a Linkin Park fan for life.
I agree completely with you on this however there is a small minority of good contemporary Christian music it's just tiny
I mean I’m not sure I agree. Elevation worship and Hillsong in my opinion are good music. I think it’s subjective of what is good and bad music. In my opinion, Hillsong or Elevation sound different to me, like there is power in the music. I do agree however that classical music is legit
beaty is objective
@@redeemedzoomer6053 beaty? Or do you mean beauty?
Yes, Music Literacy is a legitimate category in music education (Choir Director here).
At my Lutheran church the Organ is at the front.
What I don’t like is people saying you shouldn’t listen to any secular music. I think that you are going into fundamentalist ground here. While I hate songs like the new Sam Smith song that they play on the radio every morning, there are some very good songs out there.
Yes I was raised in legalism and now that I am out of that, any time someone even makes a hint at controlling what I listen to, read, watch, drink, etc I speak up and remind them that the Holy Spirit gives us discernment and that's up to me.
Any thoughts on CHH (Christian hip hop) like Tyson James or Bryson Grey? It is also quite political / conservative leaning (otherwise it wouldn't Christian anyways)
My brother in Christ, you should look into the vast Anglican choral tradition. I likely would not have found faith in Christ if I had not been in an Anglican choir. Even in the 20th century they maintained beauty in music while the rest of classical music was deconstructing tonality and making more dissonant sounding pieces. This tradition has so much deep high level classical music it is hard to condense in a comment, and it always surprises how overlooked it is even in the realm of classical music. I would recommend checking out composers such as William Byrd, C.V Stanford, John Ireland, Herbert Howells, Harold Darke, Edward Bairstow, John Stainer among others. Handel’s Messiah is a product of this tradition by the way. If you ever come to Albany NY you’re welcome to come worship at St.Peters episcopal where I play organ and sing in the choir, (we’re a slightly conservative parish)
If you look at my pfp its pretty obvious im a metallica fan, and one of my favorite songs "creeping death" is based on the events in the book of Exodus. Its scary when secular bands make better christian songs than christian bands lmao
I hope you would discuss this with Adam Neely. He has problem with christian music too
I agree, alot of the protestant worship song are bad, but some of it are very good
A lot of Catholic churches also have the organ in the back, along with the choir. I actually prefer this model, since having the choir in the front of the church (near the altar) can often distract from the sacrifice of the Mass. Also, from the congregation's perspective there is definitely a more mystical quality to the music if you can't see the choir.
Those creepers were making me nervous. Please crafts a bow and some arrows 🙏
What about throat singing and ambient chord vamp. Ambient can be otherworldly
This is the trouble with Zoomer's view. He gives no definition of what is definitively sacred music and what isn't. And that's because you can't. It is purely a subjective label by his own definition of sounding "otherworldly".
For some people, otherworldly is indeed choirs and organ music. For others it is ambienty, djenty modern metal. It's completely arbitrary.
Agreed. I find the traditional hymns much better over contemporary music
I think any style can glorify God. Having an attitude of worship comes from within. I believe in all we do we should strive for excellence.
I also think that insisting that Western European classical music is inherently sacred is a pretty narrow view.
Is there crappy contemporary worship, no doubt about it! But insisting that you must have an organ and stained glass to worship is unnecessarily divisive.
i am a Evangelical Christian, i want to make some jazzy music to God. How could i make some music that is sacred and glorifies God? I want to make good music
do you know how much an actual organ costs?
My mother loves going to church, but she always comes to church late after the contemporary music is finished. I can't say I blame her.
What’s your take on modern hymn writers like the Gettys, Matt Boswell and Mat Papa, Stuart Townsend or CityAlight?
I would say songs like “In Christ Alone,” “Come behold the wondrous mystery,” “Speak O Lord,” or “Yet Not I but through Christ in Me,” have the richness and sacredness of traditional protestant hymns such as those of Charles Wesley.
Well, they're not written for 4 part choir. They're for acoustic guitar and solo voice, which by definition, is less sacred and rich. There are a ton of great modern choral composers, it's just that they're often secular, because Evangelicals have abandoned the musical institutions just as they've fled from all established institutions
@@redeemedzoomer6053 I’m curious if you have a more rigorous definition of what makes something sacred. It seems almost like you base it on how it makes you feel listening to it. However, you also recognize many types of sacred music from various times and cultures. Is sacredness (particularly in music) culturally dependent, or is there an objective standard, and if so how can we define that more explicitly?
@@redeemedzoomer6053 What is your definition for sacred, musically? What's sacred about a 4 part choir? What's so unsacred about a guitar? Where in the Bible can you justify your beliefs on the matter?
@@redeemedzoomer6053So arrange them for 4 part choir! Some evangelical churches actually have choirs. BWV 2 is a much more complex arrangement of an originally much simpler, but quite solid, hymn, the same should be doable with the more solid works of contemporary music. Most evangelical music, of whatever quality, is written to be sung congregationally (although one of the more common problems is being less suited to untrained singers than many of the old hymns), so having one part with a fairly simple structure is key (or split male/female parts for the chorus if you're feeling adventurous). But that doesn't mean that these songs can't be arranged for a trained, multi-part choir.
What do you mean by “Catholics aren’t so great on the issue of justification”
It's true. The difference between walking into a generic american evangelical church and walking into a traditional lutheran church is huge. At the lutheran church, you'll hear beautiful organ music that makes you feel like you're walking right into Jesus' own house. At the evangelical church, you'll hear the praise band playing the exact songs they're gonna play 20 minutes later in the service but pausing 10 times to complain about the audio levels.
Also, could you get a mouspad or smthng?
If you want some good traditional christian music, I would recommend Benedictines of Mary, Queen of Apostles. Their chants are amazing. Or if you want something like Byzantine chants, I like Petros Gaitanos
I feel like the younger generation is turning back to prefer old hymns. Contemporary music has had its run. It was new and exciting for a while, but it hasn't shown itself worthy of long-term practice
Many Christians forget that the elaborate, ornate, and highly ritualistic OT style of worship was pleasing to God. Sure we’re in grace now but God hasn’t changed. If priests were struck down for improper worship, then what does that say about how holy God truly is?
what about gregorian chant
Redeemed Gamer
The reason I wouldn’t recommend any Christian to listen to secular music is not in a legalistic way but because a majority of them have secular, more worldly values. And secular/popular culture now is mainly promoting envy and WANT WANT WANT. Songs and movies and tvshows are just made to make you want things- human love/sex/cars/money/ better lifestyle- want this, want that, want everything.
Most (like 50%) pop music is romantically inclined- so its about heartbreak or human love which is extremely glorified and makes everyone listening to it feel like they NEED a gf/bf to be happy/experience life, and the other 40% is about pride, girls, money, cars, etc. The rest 10% is people singing about how lonely/depressed/sad they are or how unhappy they are with their life/the current state of the world, etc. Obviously, Christians listening to these songs think “whats the big deal i know my values and this is just background music” but we subconsciously internalise these things the more we listen to them.
I'd personally love to write a song worthy of being sung to God, but I am afraid I haven't the experience yet to do so. On the difference between sacred and non sacred music, sacred music is set apart for God, that's what sacred means. There is a place for both Christian types of music, but contemporary as it stands cannot serve a sacred purpose.
What makes it set apart for God in your view, and why couldn't a contemporary style fulfil that criteria for being set apart?
Style, genre and instrumentation are all human preference, so is it exclusively the lyrics and set it apart? What about ancient hymns done in a modern style?
ohh man you just gave me a childhood memory i used to live with my uncle and aunt he had xbox 360 mc and he built this MASSIVE church im talkin hugee several months thing and he aint even build anything inside it it was just that big
I am Roman Catholic and have just discovered your channel and already love it. You make the greatest points dude, I have no clue how you don't even have at least 100k subscribers yet
As a Catholic, I can tell you bad music has infected our Church, too 😢
ok, hear me out
a christian mecha anime about crusaders in giant robots fighting against demons and robot communists, IN SPACE.
As someone who regularly attends a non denominational “mega church” (not of my own preference, my grandparents both attended and I feel it is a good way to connect with them, I’m baptist) I can’t agree more with your take on shitty new day “Christian music” and how ethereal and otherworldly classic hymns are. My mother was catholic, when I attended a catholic funeral it completely blew me away how beautiful and sacred the hymns were. The church looked traditionally constructed with amazing decor and didn’t look like the massive office buildings most non-denominational churches seem to look like.
how are you going to church with that pfp
no i went to a non-denomiational church while i was visiting my parents and i hated it. they just put words on screen and it felt more like singing along at a rock concert than jointly worshipping god thru song.
but the opposite of sacred is "mundane" and people get mad when you describe it as feeling mundane, but i think it gets the point across better
Bach's music is good and all, but when it comes to classical music, I prefer Handel over Bach :)
It also begs the question if they can't afford to own the proper instruments, why can't they just play video of the song with speakers, it just doesn't make any sense.
When people complain about the cost, I have to laugh. The same groups who spend thousands of dollars on projectors, microphones, and sound systems for their churches "can't afford" to perform the old hymns.
And then the Orthodox girl comes out of me and screams "lol noobs we don't rely on any instruments 😅 all you need is four decent singers and the music. Of course there's an art to it! But in reality, as long as you have a couple solid singers everyone else will fall in line.
One religion that does get a lot of converts by having excellent, beautiful music is Mormonism. Their Mormon Tabernacle Choir is the number 1 biggest individual reason people become Mormons, and that's saying something.
Not gonna lie, most contemporary worship music, I really don't like it. And a lot of hillsong and elivation ect. songs, man, they even make me uncomfortable. However, I hate to say it but there is one every once in a while that I really like, such as Jesus What A Beautiful Name. Man, now that one right there makes me cry just from the beauty of it.
My church has an electroc keyboard, a drum set, some bongos, a saxaphone, and an electric guitar. The keyboard and bongos are the one we use the most.
Music in 90% of catholic parishes is terrible, and "good" music is relative. Talking as a Catholic
Do they not use latin nowadays?
@@definitionhighguy latin is in most cases forgotten, even in sacred music. We've got guitars and tambourines now
my church sings hymns, but I find it kind of boring and I would prefer to sing Gregorian chant.
What if i truly don't enjoy classical music?
No seriously though I think we should break down what you mean by "sacred music". Sacred means set apart - or the opposite of ordinary. I believe that the only reason you find traditional church music to be sacred is that the only time it is heard is at church. Compare this to hillsong which is just Christian lyrics sung over a backing track that is designed to be the least offensive, most common, bland thing they could come up with.
I think that if you lived in a world where rock music never existed and you went to a church in a foreign land and all their hymns were sung to Led Zeppelin music, and the pastor told you that the hymns belonged to their rich history written hundreds by the late, great, and devout Christian composer Robert Plant; were written down in a sacred hymn book and only played on joyous feast days, (remember, in this alternate universe, you've never even heard an electric guitar before) - You would be rushing to make a video about this new sacred form of music you discovered on your trip. You would be proclaiming how it is pleasing to God and glorifies him when it is played. What is and isn't sacred music comes down to 1. Originality - it can't be a blatant rip off of popular music (this is why you hate hillsong)
2. Commonality - if it is heard playing in the background at all the department stores and is played 4x per day by radio stations, you will never see it as sacred
3. Context and traditions - you are somewhat subject to repeating what music has previously been labeled as sacred. Music that you only hear in the context of a high church service will forever be at least somewhat tied with prayer and that which is holy in your mind, regardless of the style of the music
I totally disagree with the attacks on CCM or Christian non-hymnal bands, If god is truly god his message must fit all people (for Calvinists all as in all to be saved and for Armenians all as in all humans), it is just another case of different strokes for different folks. I have felt spiritually closer to god listening to Hillsong, Bethal, Relient K, and Toby Mac while racing dirt bikes than I have ever felt singing hymns at church. I also don't think hymns should be discarded but I haven't seen anywhere in the bible that god says you must worship musically this exact way with these styles of hymns. My biggest problem with this debate is some people don't like modern music styles so they use those arguments to ruin your enjoyment of it and that is where I get mad because to think one worship style is correct is very narrow-minded. (In writing this comment I am missing a lot of newaunce but I dont want to write an esssay so sorry I will explain more if asked).
recently read an article that, in full seriousness, said: music with a backbeat, regardless of content or context - promotes sensuality. Sure, true for a lot of secular songs - but conflating even contemporary Christian music (which is not even the only christian genre that uses a backbeat) with sensual themes based solely on the type of drumbeat used is *beyond* absurd to me.
This video has a much much better explanation as to why traditional music is important to prioritize
edit: replace sensuality with promiscuity, incorrect wording
It is very true. Music -- backbeat or no backbeat -- is the most sensual medium of art there is, which doesn't equate it with being bad, as the Muslims thought, but rather very powerful. It can be used for Good or for Bad, depending on who is using it. The Church has understood this for a long time. I suggest you read Kierkegaard's essay titled "the Musical Erotic" on this subject.
@@pierre9694 I suppose I should be more specific in noting that this article surmised that all music with a backbeat was made with a hidden intention to promote sexual immorality - with his proof being random quotes from old school rock and roll stars.
Having brushed up on my definitions a bit, sensuality is a less fitting word than sexuality in my first comment. I don't think it's disputable at all that music is sensual - though the word is often used to relate to sexual topics.
@@realkeizerosu Understood. With that in mind I should agree less with the article, although it's debatable if we consider sexual immorality to be the most extreme form of sensuality. With this consideration, it can probably be said that music, being a sensual medium, pulls you closer to sexual immorality, albeit by so little that you'll probably never reach it. I still encourage the read though, when you find the time!
@@pierre9694 Thank you! I will gladly add it to my list of resources to read sometime. I'm always willing to learn something.
I don't think we can say Bach was the greatest genius ever when Leonardo da Vinci existed, but anyway.....
One of the few Christian version of secular things I actually like is the Kingstone Bible comic. It’s not a replacement for an actual Bible nor does it try to be, but it’s more of a celebratory adaptation.
Being raised on Phil Keaggy's music, I'll never agree that guitars can't sound holy and befitting worship, but hard agree that worship music needs to be objectively good, and today often isn't. Whoever wrote "King of My Heart" belongs in music jail.
Seventeen 40 five
Did you really just call Mozart "secular?" 😂
I don’t think “Leck mich im Arsch” is very sacred music.
You do realize music is subjective right?
Technicality and complexity don’t necessarily make a piece of music good.
Put Christianity into modern music but never modern music into Christianity
Sacred = Satan
huh?
@@redeemedzoomer6053 think about it. When does the Bible ever use the word “sacred”? Never.
Wait till RZ finds out that modern music isn’t only cardi b or CCM