*Addendum* : I made a minor error at around 10:28. While Magnus was banished from the Imperial Palace, he was *NOT* actually driven back into the warp itself. I had misremembered that specific detail, so I apologise for the mistake. This means that Magnus should also be added to the list of active traitor primarchs mentioned at 11:13
You should make a theory about st basilius the elder about his corruptive influence, the guy send 30000 spaces marines to damnation in the service of the dark gods. i do believe he did something on the imperium even on Terra. the inquisition never solve this case.
Magnus’s decision to even join the seige was single-minded at best, as he had only one 1-2 goals which was to gain his Noble Soul-Fragment/Shard. But when that goal became impossible, for reasons which lead to Malcador’s first death of the siege, lol(poor Malcador, he really earned that Hero title by the Emperor) Magnus’s new goal then became to go Kill the Emperor, which lead him to the Golden Throne and Vulkan having to hammer some sense into him!
Perturabo, the definition of an extremely competent person becoming jaded after wading through oceans of morons for too long. You really should listen to your best logistician when it comes to things like siege warfare, they kind of know what they’re talking about.
Meanwhile Fulgrim is just fucking every Imperial citizen he could find, Angron is just too angry for any thought or reason, Konrad is at this point dead, Mortarion is having the worst time of his life against Jaghatai and Horus just challenged the Emperor in a 1v1 fight. I could just hear Perturabo saying "damn you all bastards for leaving me here".
Its really perfect for Perturabo's character that his whole gripe with the Big E was that he didn't get enough recognition for his achievements but it was his very own actions that almost entirely determined the fate of Terra and humanity.
Perturabo was the only Primarch who actually gave a meaningful warning to Magnus aside from Jagathai. The pre-heresy faction of pro-psyker artistic cultural weirdos Magnus/Perturabo/Fulgrim/Jagathai is just a really funny group.
@@NoName-lo9ym He is head of the council pretty much. I seriously wonder how this group would perform if they became allies during the heresy. Would be really interesting.
@@zeppelincraft1443 I agree, it would be a great what if for 40k theories or someone if the Council of Nikea caused the real schism and breakaway of the psychic/intellectual faction vs the blunt/rationalist faction
It is a fact that Perturabo has always been his own worst enemy. That he ended up being the very reason that the siege of Terra fell is just fitting really.
@@Hammer_Of_Olympia Wonderful name, and also yeah, Perty pretty much was trying to direct undisciplined allies, some of whom were devolving nearly to being beasts, the fact that the imperial palace was breached at all kinda shows if he had forces that kept more control of themselves Dorn's defenses would have failed.
@@BioroidPilot i agree. Perty is used to commanding his legion who are battle hardened siege specialists. Coming from that to commanding wild and eratic forces who are either daemonic or at the brink of turning into warp infested entities who are ill desciplined and cannot conform well with orders. It was a complete step down to what he is used to. So in hindsight, we really cant blame Perty for leaving.
Did Emperor know that at least 60% of traitor army had fucked off when he decided to challenge Horus? This sounds like rather favourable situation that I would not ruiń by seeking glorious 1 on 1 duels with Warmaster
Cool video xD definetly shows how much a victory Perturabos departure really was for the loyalists. How about a "What if Konrad Curze had joined Sanguinius on his way to Terra and turned loyalist again?"
Always loved the dynamic between Sanguinus and Curze. The bad writers focus WAY to much on the idea of Sanguinius being opposite to Angron. The idea that Curze and Sanguinius both foresee their own deaths, but handle this knowledge in totally different ways, is far more interesting.
When you think about it, Cain and Perturabo are mirror images of each other Cain: Wants a cushy life, likes people, always manages to get things done in gloriously improbably ways, has everyone's love and respect but neither wants or feels he deserves it. Perturabo: Always at toil, neither likes or understands people, gets everything done by the numbers, everyone hates him and he never gets any credit or respect despite totally deserving it.
@@Gitskreig It's little wonder then that, in that one Spacebattles thread for that fanfiction where Ciaphas Cain is (unwillingly) a hero of chaos instead of the Imperium, Perturabo is people's first choice out of all the traitor primarchs they'd want him to end up allying with.
if Perturabo would have stayed i think they would have won. But it's hard to know as they took control of Lion's gate space port too when the white scars assaulted it, and Khan killed Mortation bashing him back to warp.
@@altarboi1475 perturabo well being a seige expert is a monster who brought deamon primarch angron to heel and forced to join the seige so with him on the battlefield most other primarchs would be at the very least challenged by him
@@altarboi1475 hard to say the khan is faster and a better duelist but charging a fortress of guns is not a great idea so I'd say 60/40 for perturabo I know the khan has deflected a storm of orkish rounds fired at him so if he can do that then a win but still has to get in relatively unscaved
Honestly, I used to think he was just some angry bitter dude like Angron, but then I read Angel Externinatus and I think he was really well fleshed out, especially with the juxtaposition of him to Fulgrim in the novel. He’s pretty much my favorite of the traitor Primarchs.
If Perturabo hadn't abandoned the Siege of Terra, the loyalist casualties would have been much higher, though I think that the traitors would have lost as the Ultramarines would have shown up with fresh reinforcements and the traitors could suddenly find themselves being attacked on two sides as Guillemen would have been not only attacking the traitor fleet in orbit, but also landing fresh troops in the traitors' rear and that could have been the push for the beleaguered defenders to rally and push back against the traitors. That could have also rallied the Space Wolves and the Dark Angels and convinced them to commit to breaking the siege. The Emperor could have given a similar offer to Perturabo for what we now know as the Primaris Marines and there is a slight chance he might have switched sides as he didn't really think very highly of most of his traitor brothers, that and he was basically soloing the entire conflict by this time. Imagine a redeemed Iron Warriors legion suddenly opening fire on their former traitor brethren. Highly unlikely, I know,but a guy can dream. Also, fanfic writers, to your keyboards!
The only issue with this is that the Ultramarines would be doing blind drops, since both space ports were taken by the traitors. Rynn's World is a good book to show that blind drops into a large enemy is likely not a favourable idea, which is why they needed the Crimson Fists to retake the space port.
I had an idea a while back about Perturabo, halfway into the heresy, realizing what a gaggle of morons he was saddled with, and either fucking off entirely or working as a double agent in the traitors in the hopes that the Emperor would forgive him if he brought down the heresy from within.
These videos always lighten my mood. Welcome back rem and naerina. Already know it's gonna be great. Honestly this is question I've thought about a ton. It's one of those things that's one of the most defining moments of the entire siege, maybe even the entire heresy. A couple things that may have happened though. If perty had stayed, regal might very well have not joined the emperor aboard the vengeful spirt, since he understood the tactical intelligence of perty and was, let's be real, gunning for him. If he hadn't joined the emperor, and it played out the same way, with Horus being slain and the emperor mortally wounded, it entirely possible no one else might have been able to get to the emperor in time/slash the ones who were there wouldn't have known what to do. Another thing is whether or not the loyalists would have killed perty, and if not , if he would have become, or even wanted to become, a daemon primarch following the loss. Also damn I edited it before I saw the heart :(
funniest thing about the iron warriors and perterabo that I can't ever get over is that they play Warhammer on their battlebarge to improve their tactics using clockwork miniatures
I like to imagine that Perturabo's ascension was more akin to becoming a living siege weapon rather than a Daemon Prince like Fulgrim or Angron. In essence becoming akin to a Defiler rather than a Greater Daemon. Sealing his corrupted form within a hull of his own intricate design, binding himself to the machine rather than being forced in by hereteks and warpsmiths. It would also be a further development on his self-made armour, and dedication to siege warfare to become the ultimate siege breaking weapon.
But in response to the actual video, if Perturabo had remained in command of the siege the Traitors would have won. Firstly as stated the Iron Warriors were and are masters of siege and trench warfare, only matched by the Iron Fists and then I would argue one is the master of siege defence and the other the master of siege attack. The loss of Perturabo's expertise along with the knowledge of his legion meant that the traitors lost the only tool that could defeat Rogal Dorn's siege defence skills. I believe Perturabo would have had the Emperor's Children and Fulgrim himself act as a morale destroying force to disrupt internal operations, weakening the chain of command between the Primarchs and the non-astartes defenders. Only one Traitor could have broken the Siege, and his brother failed to see that usefulness and keep him in position. From memory of my tabletop days, Iron Warriors had a large volume of heavy weaponry. If this was true during the Siege, that means that losing the Iron Warriors meant more than a standard Legion's worth of artillery and heavy equipment was lost with them. I would argue that out of all the Traitor Legions, the worst that could have abandoned Horus at that time was the Iron Warriors. In the situation practically built for them, he mistreated Perturabo and lost the tools to defeat the defences. That's without even accounting for the fact that Perturabo could have orchestrated defences to hold off the incoming Legions for long enough for the remaining Traitors to escape with their spoils. Terra would have been cracked like an egg, and only the empty shell left for Guilliman to find.
@@drakeevans3066 I mean, I mainly made that up because of the funny naming situation, but given the similar attributes of the three legions I think it could absolutely create a functional fighting force, probably specialized in drawn-out conflicts and battles of attrition, where the endurance, excessively stoic chapter culture, and sheer will of these Astartes would find full advantage.
I would agree with this video pretty much in it's entirety. I am however interested to see if Perturabo has become a demon Primarch, or if he has followed his legion's practice of hacking away the corruption that they manifest. Thank you for the video.
He has indeed since become a daemon primarch. A description of his form was finally shown within one of the short stories included within the limited edition re-release of Storm of Iron.
@@LupusGr3y Likely did it for two reasons. He knew it would likely happen eventually, so wanted to do it on his own terms and or timeline. Secondly the damage he sustained after fulgrim's betrayal during Angel Exterminatus left him in a weakened state, and ascending would fix that. At least this is what I believe. A lot of the IV legion view chaos as a tool to be used.
@@LupusGr3y 'What happened?' can't be answered in-universe because as you point out here his becoming a demon prince/primarch makes no sense given his previous thoughts and words regarding chaos - both the warp in essence and its attendant and resultant corruption - and his actions when he perceived chaos had so suffused and pervaded the other traitor legions, which were his allies. 'What happened?' can at least be tentatively answered in real life and, for me, it's just bad writing, perhaps driven by some need to have an equal number of demon primarchs of chaos undivided as of single patron chaos gods, perhaps under the misguided 'creative tutelage' of some-or-other department head or project manager at GW, perhaps stemming from too free a hand given to too narratively lax an author fulfilling a commission for the Black Library print house. Maybe some combination of all of these or none of them. I'm just pretty sure that the whole nonsensical development is just plain bad writing. Too little quality control, too small a talent pool, too few keen eyes for oversight, too poor a sense of deference to established lore. I can't prove it for a fact, I just know it's true.
@@breakerofrocks I think a wonderful thing would be if him going daemon primarch turned out to be misinformation and he may have done some other stuff to himself, such as some gene modification/ cybernetics and the daemon primarch stuff was a lie so foes prepared the wrong tools to fight him.
I don't think the outcome would have changed in the end if Perturabo stayed. The Iron Warriors were the only ones to remain close enough to the legion they once were, it was on a crash course for infighting. Horus preferred the "council" of commanders like Abaddon to those of his brother primarchs, his command of the war effort was slipping and I'm sure if he found his own sub commanders taking to the abominations he looked down on he would have consolidated his legions strength more and more. The forces of chaos fought each other about as much as they fought the loyalists and his exit likely salvaged the war effort for the traitors. Perturabo very well could have just looked at his position and the IV's and said "you know what, I got more in common with the guys on the other side of that wall and as much as I hate Dorn and the Emperor, maybe they'll grant me leniency if I start bombing the literal demons clawing at the walls, eating century old heros the Emperor and Dorn will look past what I've done and be relieved to have an extra 100 000 plus space marines materializing in enemy territory to help." Perturabo left because it was no longer a legion war, if Horus had stopped Perturabo from leaving he would have at the very least flat out turned against the traitor legions, at worse he might have actively started supporting other loyalist operations, him parting ways was the only option all things considered
I think the Horus heresy was orchestrated by Perturabo and Rogal Dorn just so they can see who's the better Offender/Defender, or Perturabo and Ferrus Manus created the greatest VR game the galaxy has ever seen.
Fantastic video, but unless I'm misremembering, Magnus wasn't banished to the warp by the anti-daemonic wards, just back to the traitor staging grounds outside the palace! Fury of Magnus ends with a Sons of Horus Officer bringing news of a new front opening up, and Magnus tells the Sons of Horus that he and his legion are committed to the war until the very end.
@@40KTheories It's all good! 😄Really feels like he should've been banished at that point, I have no idea what they're gonna do with him in the last books lol.
How about a what if the primarchs and their legions hadn't embraced chaos fully until after the siege of terra? Like how would the siege have gone differently if morty, fulgrim Magnus and angron were still 100% primarch? They wouldn't have to wait so long to land their legions, but Mortarions depression miasma wouldn't have been there, but would that have mattered when they could land 5 fully functioning legions at the palace gates.
Perturabo is the Master Destroyer. He is unmatched in war. Not in battle. In war. His grinding methodology, unshakable resolve and the fact he could use his Daemon Primarch brothers, would have spelled the end for the Emperor's forces. He would also make *extensive* use of the siege weaponry at his disposal. Properly. No more throwing legion upon legion at the walls, basically at random. Perturabo, you may remember, broke the Aegis: the void shield system, that protected the Emperor's Palace. If he could do that, then what would he have made of the Ultimate wall? Child's play. After all, he and his Astartes, wargamed assaulting the Emperor's Palace, extensively. Additionally, Perturabo's logistical skill, rivals that of Roboute Gulliman's. The armada would be better organised, better armed and much more able to mount a comprehensive assault on Terra. It's possible that Perturabo would destroy the Holy Mountain from orbit. The Master Destroyer is, without doubt, one of my favourite characters. Conflicted, conceited and unfathomably intelligent. Horus lost the siege, because Perturabo left. But that's just what I think.
Cool I’ve been out of the loop for the past several years thanks for any info on the siege of terra. 👍 I only heard a brief on it by majorkill a couple weeks ago. Also on a related note I’m bit curious what would Horus done if he won against The Emperor?
There's a prophecy that if Horus won, chaos would rule for a time before consuming itself and being banished forever, at the cost of humanity. Every other race would be spared, but humanity would be extinct.
@@magikot heh. Imagine if that happened. Many tens of thousands of years later the Tau would be discovering former human worlds and discovering the remains of the Imperium. Maybe perhaps get mind-boggled by the size and scope of the Imperium 😂 Perhaps the necrons would switch their biotransference to the tau instead then. That is, if they can do that before the tyranids arrive.
Do you know how hard it would be to write him using those for a fight? There is a reason the emperor weilds a giant sword to cleave horus with instead of just popping him.
The Iron Warriors carried the whole damn Horus Heresy until right at the end! "War is math!" - Perturabo. There is an old saying that goes something along the lines of "amateurs study tactics, professionals study logistics". Because tactics may win battles, but it is logistics that wins wars. That is why Horus was terrified of Robute Guilliman, and his Ultramarine Legion. He sent TWO Legions against them ... and it wasn't enough! Guilliman was (and is) a logistical genius, and the only one on the Traitor side that could match him was Perturabo. Regrettably, logistics is often though of as being "boring" so it does not receive the attention it deserves ... not do those who master it.
killed by one of the loyalist primarchs. he left before any of them could seriously hurt him whereas all his other brothers who weren't trying to kill him were all demons at that point
Excellent video. I have a request, what if Mortarion abandoned the Traitors upon learning the true nature of who he has aligned himself with. Mortarion had been staunchly anti-warp and I would like to see how this would have affected the Traitors and the Horus heresy should Mortarion have stuck with his anti-warp views. I do not see him being welcomed back into the Imperium and he probably doesn’t want to anyways. I suspect that both the traitor and loyalist forces would go after him for abandoning their cause after the conclusion of the Heresy. Mortarion would probably claim his little empire and rule Barbaros. But if he hates the warp more than the Emperor, he may assist the Imperium and the Imperium will begrudgingly accept his help given the rather dire situation the Imperium is in right now. On the heresy itself, would this be enough to affect the heresy in any meaningful way?
Perturabro has quickly become my favorite Chaos Primarch and I can see his point of view of why he left Terra. It also shows his desire to preserve his Legion against Horus making a misstep.
It interesting that he makes gifts for the Lion and Rowboat - though this could just be a quirk of the writing - maybe suggesting these were brothers he tried to form a relationship? As a side thought, how many feels would you have Perturabo if it was revealed he had made Dorn some kind of gift, who was very blunt in his critque of it or tossed it away and that is what started the whole feud.
I think the defeat of the Traitors was truly realized on Tallarn. If Horus had not chastised Perturabo for seeking the xenos artifact behind his back, had trusted that his intentions were pure (which they were), then I don't think Perturabo would've abandoned the siege. Horus was just too arrogant. Had he not made Perturabo kneel before him in front of his own warriors, Horus might have won the war.
The issue is thst none of the primarchs can trust the other to have pure intentions. They have all been scared by the emperor so keeping secrets between them is emulating their enemy.
Did Perturabo not think what would happen if he abandoned the siege? He must have...and maybe with Horus' order he realized he wasn't getting the recognition Horus had promised, and that Horus wasn't treating him any better than Big E...so he decided that they could fight it out between them without him... 🤷♂
He knew, and was most likely just fed up with everyones shite. Horus had gone mad at that point, his other brothers were also deep in the thrall of Chaos and their legions were following suit. The siege devolved from Astartes vs Astartes to Chaos vs Anything untainted, and he was disgusted with it all and said fuck that shit I'm out. At this point, the Iron Warriors had bled for everyone BUT themselves and at this point we see them truly begin indulging in their own wants and desires.
That is the art indeed (artist link is in the video description :3), but it served well enough for a visual representation of the scene described (you'd be surprised by how little art of Sons of Horus terminators in battle actually exists lol)
I think Perturabo being the only true clearly thinking Primarch on the traitor side, he recognized the battle was shifting into loyalist hands already and knew the Dark Angels, Ultramarines and Space Wolves would be arriving soon enough. Perturabo knew the traitors were going to lose due to Horus underestimating his loyalist brothers. Especially that of Jaghatai and Vulkan who actually killed or forced out all of the traitor Primarchs that were killed or forced out. Sanguinis also killed the most daemon lord on the field. So yeah Horus drastically underestimated his brothers. But Perturabo would be the only traitor to realize this.
Perty didn't complain again but Morty kept bitching and moaning about wanting to be the one to kill the Emperor so to shut him up Horus put him in charge at the expense of Perty who just blew his top again after being ignored and sidelined all over again.
I actually didn’t realize till watching this video that once Perturabo left and Mortarion was banished that there was basically NO primarch in command of the traitors. Angron by that point (and to be honest long before) was basically just a battering ram. He could cause some chaos, but in truth? That’s it. He would have no interest or desire to do much more to breach the palace walls then throw bodies at it. Which makes it all the more confusing to me HOW Perturabo became a daemon primarch, much less and undivided one considering his absolute disdain for his brothers “pet monsters”.
I think it would have meant imperial forces would get much more mauled on Terra but the void battle would have left them with a choice of being stranded on Terra or withdraw. I think the Lion, Guilliman and the wolves would have been hard to resist hitting you from behind.
I really like the story of Perturabo, although he became a traitor and many people don't like him because he is very "meh". Reading about him shows that he is a great tatictian and siegebreaker and good asset in the traitor's side. On my point of view, While Horus was the leader and lead them to the cause, Perturabo is that guy who keeps the group together, that make then follow the plan/objective instead let then doing random things like Angron and World eaters killing everyone on sight or Fulgrim and his legion "having fun" on Terra. If he stays on the siege, nobody knows what could happen: -- He could be decisive for Horus Victory; -- The traitors could lose(for GW decides reasons), but will be more costly for the Imperium than it was on cannon. I really like how is a reasonable man and how decisive he was for both traitor and loyalist cause.
Yooo..... 40k theories, can you make a video of the state of the 40k universe but WITHOUT the Imperium and Chaos, as in this timeline Horus won the duel and the other prophecy took place instead? 😀
I got a feeling they made Perturabo leave, because if he were there now, with Hawkboy and his Angels guarding the Eternity gate, Perty and Iron Warriors would use tanks and titans to blast them to kingdom come.
@@ZeroNumerous I have read that scene. It was a Warhound, hardly a large titan. And dont you underestimate rabbits. Dorn was killed by Black Legion marines. Beside, if titans dont work, we can always use the Holy-Hand-Granade.
We always hear about the Siege of Terra barely being won by the Loyalists, but it seems that the Traitors lost the battle more than the Loyalists won. Horus must be a stand-in for Stalin or Hitler with those amazing strategic bungles.
I mean, Dorn discovered the weakness in Saturnine in the book, while Perturabo had known about it for months. Yes, it was a trap, but a trap hastily put together at the last second. He still managed to overestimate Dorn wrt Saturnine, and if the gambit could have been employed earlier, it would have succeeded.
Perty should have never turned or once he saw the corruption of his brothers (fulgrim literally tries to kill him) he should have renounced horus. The fact his grudge with rogal took him to Tera makes him a petulant child and his leaving the siege merely another expression of his petulant child like behavior continued. This from a logistical genius and builder is almost an unbelievable character flaw that should have been noticed and dealt with long ago before the heresy. Of course that would have prevented the story and so we must simply accept the words written as is. Perty was always someone's B until he traded those prison daddies for warp daddies with bigger spikeyer strap on. And he deserves it.
I cant afford to be playing the game anymore. So I'm removing all of the links on TH-cam Instagram and Facebook. If I cant afford to play the game I'm not spending hours watching videos about it. Its their fault. I've struggled and sacrificed to keep this passion but I'm sorry enough is enough.
Off the top of my head, I would assume it was due to Horus being gradually influenced more and more by the Chaos Gods, who wanted one of their daemonic servants to take charge as opposed to a "regular" man.
@@jonathandavies1716 at that point out of all the traitor demon primarchs, mortarian was probably the most saner out of all of them, you couldn't give command to fulgrim or angron.
Horus was to corrupt by the gods to see how far he had fallen, in the end only Pertarabo had the will to resist the influence. To me that makes him the only true primarch for the "traitors" and the rest were just pawns of the four brothers including the warmaster, with such factors apparent is it any wonder that the loyalist won?
Being a daemon prince proves Perturabo was never above the influence, but even if they hadn't fallen to Chaos the traitors had no chance. They simply could not work together due to each of the traitor primarchs being incompetent man-children whose egos were stronger than winning.
To be fair. That applies to about all the primarchs except Vulkan, khan and sang. The rest kinda are just what you described but had more resources and could keep up. This became a battle of attrition more then anything about having better leaders.
I think he knew the outcome would be an imperial victory but his father's imperial truth would be forever shattered, others would begin to see the hypocrisy and mistrust that the Lord of Iron saw and felt. Horus and the forces of chaos wanted to destroy and build nothing but their debased greatnesses slaves to destruction believing it to be freedom.
Naerina is a regular fixture on this channel. She primarily does the Homebrew of the Week videos, but occasionally narrates for a theory of lore for newcomers video. She recently narrated a video about the Aeldari gods, so go check that out.
It all happened exactly as the warp willed. Keeping humanity divided and battling gives them strength. If Horus wins, humanity and the galaxy is consumed and they starve out.
The new lore that the Iron Warriors betrayed the heresy still makes a huge problem. During the Legion Wars everyone blamed the Sons of Horus for the failure and hunt them to almost extinction, but no one cares about the Iron Warriors.
Perturabo would have won the siege, sieges are by nature very attacker sided since the attacker has the freedom to do whatever he wants while the defender is most often forced to simply try and hold for has long as pooible without a hope for a true victory (Look at most historical sieges). It is also very fitting that Perturabo would leave the siege since he hated chaos and most of his allies had already been corrupted by it and so the war had truly lost its purity, what we also have to keep in mind if that by having Mortarian take over the siege Horus is also not giving Perturabo the credit he is due just like the Emperor.
A bit hypocritical of Perturabo to complain about the corruption of his allies while learning to "scientifically master" Chaos from a Word Bearers tutor.
I believe perty was a man and wanted to remain a man, and when all his brothers began to become Demons, he left knowing his time was limited amid them at best. He was no fool and no mans sacrifice. he followed his father words,"a hammer" knowningly or not, do not forget he dispised most of his brothers not just dorn.
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*Addendum* : I made a minor error at around 10:28. While Magnus was banished from the Imperial Palace, he was *NOT* actually driven back into the warp itself.
I had misremembered that specific detail, so I apologise for the mistake.
This means that Magnus should also be added to the list of active traitor primarchs mentioned at 11:13
You should make a theory about st basilius the elder about his corruptive influence, the guy send 30000 spaces marines to damnation in the service of the dark gods. i do believe he did something on the imperium even on Terra. the inquisition never solve this case.
Magnus’s decision to even join the seige was single-minded at best, as he had only one 1-2 goals which was to gain his Noble Soul-Fragment/Shard. But when that goal became impossible, for reasons which lead to Malcador’s first death of the siege, lol(poor Malcador, he really earned that Hero title by the Emperor)
Magnus’s new goal then became to go Kill the Emperor, which lead him to the Golden Throne and Vulkan having to hammer some sense into him!
Perturabo, the definition of an extremely competent person becoming jaded after wading through oceans of morons for too long. You really should listen to your best logistician when it comes to things like siege warfare, they kind of know what they’re talking about.
tbf, he was an arrogant ass long before the emperor came by and picked him up to fight his crusade
Meanwhile Fulgrim is just fucking every Imperial citizen he could find, Angron is just too angry for any thought or reason, Konrad is at this point dead, Mortarion is having the worst time of his life against Jaghatai and Horus just challenged the Emperor in a 1v1 fight. I could just hear Perturabo saying "damn you all bastards for leaving me here".
@Alphagon & Omegarius
Quite.
An embarrassing blunder.
But,Konrad was entirely out of the loop, to use a phrase, beyond the control of any of his brother primarchs.
Perty is the patron Primarch of engineers everywhere.
*FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS I LAY DORMANT, WHO HAS DISTURBED MY-* Oh it's the 40k Theories uploading another glorious video. Nice.
Hey I get that one
Its really perfect for Perturabo's character that his whole gripe with the Big E was that he didn't get enough recognition for his achievements but it was his very own actions that almost entirely determined the fate of Terra and humanity.
0:54 Magnus the Red is the only brother who truly understood Perturabo and they are like Mood Kindred.
They were indeed.
Perturabo was the only Primarch who actually gave a meaningful warning to Magnus aside from Jagathai.
The pre-heresy faction of pro-psyker artistic cultural weirdos Magnus/Perturabo/Fulgrim/Jagathai is just a really funny group.
@@zeppelincraft1443 Don't forget Sanguinius in there too. Definite art club kids
@@NoName-lo9ym He is head of the council pretty much. I seriously wonder how this group would perform if they became allies during the heresy. Would be really interesting.
@@zeppelincraft1443 I agree, it would be a great what if for 40k theories or someone if the Council of Nikea caused the real schism and breakaway of the psychic/intellectual faction vs the blunt/rationalist faction
It is a fact that Perturabo has always been his own worst enemy. That he ended up being the very reason that the siege of Terra fell is just fitting really.
A siege without the siege master himself is like a party without drinks. Or hiking with no guide.
If you had to deal with the shit I had to, you would’ve left as well
@@Hammer_Of_Olympia Wonderful name, and also yeah, Perty pretty much was trying to direct undisciplined allies, some of whom were devolving nearly to being beasts, the fact that the imperial palace was breached at all kinda shows if he had forces that kept more control of themselves Dorn's defenses would have failed.
@@BioroidPilot thank you and completely! The fact Perturabo managed to breach the Imperial Palace is good enough, if he had stayed then goddamn
@@BioroidPilot i agree. Perty is used to commanding his legion who are battle hardened siege specialists. Coming from that to commanding wild and eratic forces who are either daemonic or at the brink of turning into warp infested entities who are ill desciplined and cannot conform well with orders. It was a complete step down to what he is used to. So in hindsight, we really cant blame Perty for leaving.
Did Emperor know that at least 60% of traitor army had fucked off when he decided to challenge Horus? This sounds like rather favourable situation that I would not ruiń by seeking glorious 1 on 1 duels with Warmaster
There are laws in the universe, even the God-Emperor has to abide by...
Like the "Rule of Cool"!
You smash the head of yhe snake when you have the chance
At this point the loyalist were below 1% strength, so traitors had still overwhelming advantage.
Having Horus lick his wounds and build a separate imperium in the warp was way more dangerous.
iirc Horus/the vengeful spirit was literally pulling Terra into the Warp
Cool video xD definetly shows how much a victory Perturabos departure really was for the loyalists.
How about a "What if Konrad Curze had joined Sanguinius on his way to Terra and turned loyalist again?"
Talk about a prodigal son...
Always loved the dynamic between Sanguinus and Curze. The bad writers focus WAY to much on the idea of Sanguinius being opposite to Angron. The idea that Curze and Sanguinius both foresee their own deaths, but handle this knowledge in totally different ways, is far more interesting.
@@Jagonath heck yes xD especially how they connect with each other when Curze confronts him.
@@Jagonath Always thought Curze would've looked cooler with bat wings.
@@40kanon would be a cool conversion for someone to do, daemon prince Curze. Not lore accurate to his character, but cool
Perturabo: UNKNOWINGLY THE HERO OF THE IMPERIUM!
Years later, Ciphias Cain would inherit that title.
When you think about it, Cain and Perturabo are mirror images of each other
Cain: Wants a cushy life, likes people, always manages to get things done in gloriously improbably ways, has everyone's love and respect but neither wants or feels he deserves it.
Perturabo: Always at toil, neither likes or understands people, gets everything done by the numbers, everyone hates him and he never gets any credit or respect despite totally deserving it.
@@Gitskreig It's little wonder then that, in that one Spacebattles thread for that fanfiction where Ciaphas Cain is (unwillingly) a hero of chaos instead of the Imperium, Perturabo is people's first choice out of all the traitor primarchs they'd want him to end up allying with.
if Perturabo would have stayed i think they would have won. But it's hard to know as they took control of Lion's gate space port too when the white scars assaulted it, and Khan killed Mortation bashing him back to warp.
Could the khan have been killed if perturabo sent troops into the fray?
@@altarboi1475 perturabo well being a seige expert is a monster who brought deamon primarch angron to heel and forced to join the seige so with him on the battlefield most other primarchs would be at the very least challenged by him
Maybe, but with the Emperor's Children too I think their victory is assured.
@@altarboi1475 hard to say the khan is faster and a better duelist but charging a fortress of guns is not a great idea so I'd say 60/40 for perturabo I know the khan has deflected a storm of orkish rounds fired at him so if he can do that then a win but still has to get in relatively unscaved
Absolutely love any content on Perty. He might be viewed as one dimensional by some but he fascinates me to no end!
Honestly, I used to think he was just some angry bitter dude like Angron, but then I read Angel Externinatus and I think he was really well fleshed out, especially with the juxtaposition of him to Fulgrim in the novel. He’s pretty much my favorite of the traitor Primarchs.
1:09 Wholesome Perturabo is best Perturabo
If Perturabo hadn't abandoned the Siege of Terra, the loyalist casualties would have been much higher, though I think that the traitors would have lost as the Ultramarines would have shown up with fresh reinforcements and the traitors could suddenly find themselves being attacked on two sides as Guillemen would have been not only attacking the traitor fleet in orbit, but also landing fresh troops in the traitors' rear and that could have been the push for the beleaguered defenders to rally and push back against the traitors.
That could have also rallied the Space Wolves and the Dark Angels and convinced them to commit to breaking the siege.
The Emperor could have given a similar offer to Perturabo for what we now know as the Primaris Marines and there is a slight chance he might have switched sides as he didn't really think very highly of most of his traitor brothers, that and he was basically soloing the entire conflict by this time.
Imagine a redeemed Iron Warriors legion suddenly opening fire on their former traitor brethren. Highly unlikely, I know,but a guy can dream. Also, fanfic writers, to your keyboards!
The only issue with this is that the Ultramarines would be doing blind drops, since both space ports were taken by the traitors. Rynn's World is a good book to show that blind drops into a large enemy is likely not a favourable idea, which is why they needed the Crimson Fists to retake the space port.
I had an idea a while back about Perturabo, halfway into the heresy, realizing what a gaggle of morons he was saddled with, and either fucking off entirely or working as a double agent in the traitors in the hopes that the Emperor would forgive him if he brought down the heresy from within.
EYYYYYY Remleiz! Heard you were feeling under the weather again on the podcast. Hope you feel better soon if you aren't already.
Yesssss!!!!!!! Welcome back
4:05 Noise Marines: "Let's Get Loud, Let's Get Loud!~ Turn the music up, let's do it!~"
Pretty sure my neighbors in 2009, 2010 were noise marines…
These videos always lighten my mood. Welcome back rem and naerina. Already know it's gonna be great. Honestly this is question I've thought about a ton. It's one of those things that's one of the most defining moments of the entire siege, maybe even the entire heresy.
A couple things that may have happened though. If perty had stayed, regal might very well have not joined the emperor aboard the vengeful spirt, since he understood the tactical intelligence of perty and was, let's be real, gunning for him. If he hadn't joined the emperor, and it played out the same way, with Horus being slain and the emperor mortally wounded, it entirely possible no one else might have been able to get to the emperor in time/slash the ones who were there wouldn't have known what to do.
Another thing is whether or not the loyalists would have killed perty, and if not , if he would have become, or even wanted to become, a daemon primarch following the loss.
Also damn I edited it before I saw the heart :(
Thanks for the video!
1:54 Horus and his Chaos Bros are going for a walk.
A very enthusiastic walk.
1:12 bruh that pic is so wholesome
Be sure to check out the rest of the artist's gallery here:
www.deviantart.com/yangzheyy
@@40KTheories oooh thanks!
I was about to go to bed then I saw my notification of a new 40k theories vídeo. Guess ill just go to bed a bit later
Your sacrifice is appreciated :D
So happy for so many 40k theories uploads
funniest thing about the iron warriors and perterabo that I can't ever get over is that they play Warhammer on their battlebarge to improve their tactics using clockwork miniatures
I like to imagine that Perturabo's ascension was more akin to becoming a living siege weapon rather than a Daemon Prince like Fulgrim or Angron. In essence becoming akin to a Defiler rather than a Greater Daemon. Sealing his corrupted form within a hull of his own intricate design, binding himself to the machine rather than being forced in by hereteks and warpsmiths. It would also be a further development on his self-made armour, and dedication to siege warfare to become the ultimate siege breaking weapon.
But in response to the actual video, if Perturabo had remained in command of the siege the Traitors would have won. Firstly as stated the Iron Warriors were and are masters of siege and trench warfare, only matched by the Iron Fists and then I would argue one is the master of siege defence and the other the master of siege attack. The loss of Perturabo's expertise along with the knowledge of his legion meant that the traitors lost the only tool that could defeat Rogal Dorn's siege defence skills. I believe Perturabo would have had the Emperor's Children and Fulgrim himself act as a morale destroying force to disrupt internal operations, weakening the chain of command between the Primarchs and the non-astartes defenders. Only one Traitor could have broken the Siege, and his brother failed to see that usefulness and keep him in position.
From memory of my tabletop days, Iron Warriors had a large volume of heavy weaponry. If this was true during the Siege, that means that losing the Iron Warriors meant more than a standard Legion's worth of artillery and heavy equipment was lost with them. I would argue that out of all the Traitor Legions, the worst that could have abandoned Horus at that time was the Iron Warriors. In the situation practically built for them, he mistreated Perturabo and lost the tools to defeat the defences. That's without even accounting for the fact that Perturabo could have orchestrated defences to hold off the incoming Legions for long enough for the remaining Traitors to escape with their spoils. Terra would have been cracked like an egg, and only the empty shell left for Guilliman to find.
@@Lumen_Obscurum The iron fists? The iron hands successor chapter secretly made using chimeric geneseed from iron warriors and imperial fists?
@@omnitroph1501 sounds cool but would it work?
@@drakeevans3066 I mean, I mainly made that up because of the funny naming situation, but given the similar attributes of the three legions I think it could absolutely create a functional fighting force, probably specialized in drawn-out conflicts and battles of attrition, where the endurance, excessively stoic chapter culture, and sheer will of these Astartes would find full advantage.
@@omnitroph1501 so exactly what the imperium needs most of all right now.
Sweet a new what if video. Glad you are doing well my friend
I would agree with this video pretty much in it's entirety. I am however interested to see if Perturabo has become a demon Primarch, or if he has followed his legion's practice of hacking away the corruption that they manifest. Thank you for the video.
He has indeed since become a daemon primarch. A description of his form was finally shown within one of the short stories included within the limited edition re-release of Storm of Iron.
@@40KTheories Which to me still doesn't make sense. First he despises the corruption of chaos then he becomes a daemon prince. What happened?
@@LupusGr3y Likely did it for two reasons. He knew it would likely happen eventually, so wanted to do it on his own terms and or timeline. Secondly the damage he sustained after fulgrim's betrayal during Angel Exterminatus left him in a weakened state, and ascending would fix that. At least this is what I believe. A lot of the IV legion view chaos as a tool to be used.
@@LupusGr3y 'What happened?' can't be answered in-universe because as you point out here his becoming a demon prince/primarch makes no sense given his previous thoughts and words regarding chaos - both the warp in essence and its attendant and resultant corruption - and his actions when he perceived chaos had so suffused and pervaded the other traitor legions, which were his allies.
'What happened?' can at least be tentatively answered in real life and, for me, it's just bad writing, perhaps driven by some need to have an equal number of demon primarchs of chaos undivided as of single patron chaos gods, perhaps under the misguided 'creative tutelage' of some-or-other department head or project manager at GW, perhaps stemming from too free a hand given to too narratively lax an author fulfilling a commission for the Black Library print house. Maybe some combination of all of these or none of them.
I'm just pretty sure that the whole nonsensical development is just plain bad writing. Too little quality control, too small a talent pool, too few keen eyes for oversight, too poor a sense of deference to established lore.
I can't prove it for a fact, I just know it's true.
@@breakerofrocks I think a wonderful thing would be if him going daemon primarch turned out to be misinformation and he may have done some other stuff to himself, such as some gene modification/ cybernetics and the daemon primarch stuff was a lie so foes prepared the wrong tools to fight him.
I don't think the outcome would have changed in the end if Perturabo stayed. The Iron Warriors were the only ones to remain close enough to the legion they once were, it was on a crash course for infighting. Horus preferred the "council" of commanders like Abaddon to those of his brother primarchs, his command of the war effort was slipping and I'm sure if he found his own sub commanders taking to the abominations he looked down on he would have consolidated his legions strength more and more. The forces of chaos fought each other about as much as they fought the loyalists and his exit likely salvaged the war effort for the traitors. Perturabo very well could have just looked at his position and the IV's and said "you know what, I got more in common with the guys on the other side of that wall and as much as I hate Dorn and the Emperor, maybe they'll grant me leniency if I start bombing the literal demons clawing at the walls, eating century old heros the Emperor and Dorn will look past what I've done and be relieved to have an extra 100 000 plus space marines materializing in enemy territory to help." Perturabo left because it was no longer a legion war, if Horus had stopped Perturabo from leaving he would have at the very least flat out turned against the traitor legions, at worse he might have actively started supporting other loyalist operations, him parting ways was the only option all things considered
The most pleasant voice on this channel. Great video.
I think the Horus heresy was orchestrated by Perturabo and Rogal Dorn just so they can see who's the better Offender/Defender, or Perturabo and Ferrus Manus created the greatest VR game the galaxy has ever seen.
Offender lmao 😂
10:32 In short, Vulkan had hugged Magnus the Red so very hard it broke his spine once more.
Great theory. Great videos.
Gotta love a good Naerina narration, I would love to know what would happen if the Ultramarines made it to Terra
It would have pretty much been The Scouring, but shorter, and more bloody!
Fantastic video, but unless I'm misremembering, Magnus wasn't banished to the warp by the anti-daemonic wards, just back to the traitor staging grounds outside the palace! Fury of Magnus ends with a Sons of Horus Officer bringing news of a new front opening up, and Magnus tells the Sons of Horus that he and his legion are committed to the war until the very end.
Yes, you are correct. I fucked up and misremembered that detail >_<
I've made a pinned comment addressing the error.
@@40KTheories It's all good! 😄Really feels like he should've been banished at that point, I have no idea what they're gonna do with him in the last books lol.
Perturabo, Lord of Iron, Saviour of Man.
Yes.
Iron Within.
Iron without.
@@TheMaleRei Iron within!
I like to think the last message Horus received from Perturabo was him flipping him off with both hands as his ships warp jump away
How about a what if the primarchs and their legions hadn't embraced chaos fully until after the siege of terra? Like how would the siege have gone differently if morty, fulgrim Magnus and angron were still 100% primarch? They wouldn't have to wait so long to land their legions, but Mortarions depression miasma wouldn't have been there, but would that have mattered when they could land 5 fully functioning legions at the palace gates.
Perterabo and Magnus are the only traitors i respect, and the only two that could maybe be redeemed.
Perturabo is the Master Destroyer. He is unmatched in war. Not in battle. In war.
His grinding methodology, unshakable resolve and the fact he could use his Daemon Primarch brothers, would have spelled the end for the Emperor's forces.
He would also make *extensive* use of the siege weaponry at his disposal. Properly. No more throwing legion upon legion at the walls, basically at random. Perturabo, you may remember, broke the Aegis: the void shield system, that protected the Emperor's Palace. If he could do that, then what would he have made of the Ultimate wall? Child's play. After all, he and his Astartes, wargamed assaulting the Emperor's Palace, extensively.
Additionally, Perturabo's logistical skill, rivals that of Roboute Gulliman's. The armada would be better organised, better armed and much more able to mount a comprehensive assault on Terra. It's possible that Perturabo would destroy the Holy Mountain from orbit.
The Master Destroyer is, without doubt, one of my favourite characters. Conflicted, conceited and unfathomably intelligent. Horus lost the siege, because Perturabo left.
But that's just what I think.
Me: down with the vid
Rem: posts this and the world gets a little nicer
Per - Per - Peryurabo, HERO OF THE IMPERIUM!
There is information in here that I didn't know you have my gratitude :)
Cool I’ve been out of the loop for the past several years thanks for any info on the siege of terra. 👍 I only heard a brief on it by majorkill a couple weeks ago. Also on a related note I’m bit curious what would Horus done if he won against The Emperor?
There's a prophecy that if Horus won, chaos would rule for a time before consuming itself and being banished forever, at the cost of humanity. Every other race would be spared, but humanity would be extinct.
@@magikot heh. Imagine if that happened. Many tens of thousands of years later the Tau would be discovering former human worlds and discovering the remains of the Imperium. Maybe perhaps get mind-boggled by the size and scope of the Imperium 😂
Perhaps the necrons would switch their biotransference to the tau instead then. That is, if they can do that before the tyranids arrive.
Magnus is supposedly this unstoppable psyker yet never seems to use those powers in a fight
Do you know how hard it would be to write him using those for a fight? There is a reason the emperor weilds a giant sword to cleave horus with instead of just popping him.
So basically perturabo carried the seige of terra until horus ego got in the way
Tactics win battles. Logistics win wars.
The Iron Warriors carried the whole damn Horus Heresy until right at the end!
"War is math!" - Perturabo.
There is an old saying that goes something along the lines of "amateurs study tactics, professionals study logistics". Because tactics may win battles, but it is logistics that wins wars. That is why Horus was terrified of Robute Guilliman, and his Ultramarine Legion. He sent TWO Legions against them ... and it wasn't enough!
Guilliman was (and is) a logistical genius, and the only one on the Traitor side that could match him was Perturabo. Regrettably, logistics is often though of as being "boring" so it does not receive the attention it deserves ... not do those who master it.
killed by one of the loyalist primarchs. he left before any of them could seriously hurt him whereas all his other brothers who weren't trying to kill him were all demons at that point
Excellent video. I have a request, what if Mortarion abandoned the Traitors upon learning the true nature of who he has aligned himself with. Mortarion had been staunchly anti-warp and I would like to see how this would have affected the Traitors and the Horus heresy should Mortarion have stuck with his anti-warp views. I do not see him being welcomed back into the Imperium and he probably doesn’t want to anyways. I suspect that both the traitor and loyalist forces would go after him for abandoning their cause after the conclusion of the Heresy. Mortarion would probably claim his little empire and rule Barbaros. But if he hates the warp more than the Emperor, he may assist the Imperium and the Imperium will begrudgingly accept his help given the rather dire situation the Imperium is in right now. On the heresy itself, would this be enough to affect the heresy in any meaningful way?
Perturabro has quickly become my favorite Chaos Primarch and I can see his point of view of why he left Terra. It also shows his desire to preserve his Legion against Horus making a misstep.
It interesting that he makes gifts for the Lion and Rowboat - though this could just be a quirk of the writing - maybe suggesting these were brothers he tried to form a relationship? As a side thought, how many feels would you have Perturabo if it was revealed he had made Dorn some kind of gift, who was very blunt in his critque of it or tossed it away and that is what started the whole feud.
I hope he's redeemable cuz if he ain't he better be the biggest threat out there Damm near unconquerable walls this big. ♾️
I think the defeat of the Traitors was truly realized on Tallarn. If Horus had not chastised Perturabo for seeking the xenos artifact behind his back, had trusted that his intentions were pure (which they were), then I don't think Perturabo would've abandoned the siege. Horus was just too arrogant. Had he not made Perturabo kneel before him in front of his own warriors, Horus might have won the war.
The issue is thst none of the primarchs can trust the other to have pure intentions. They have all been scared by the emperor so keeping secrets between them is emulating their enemy.
Did Perturabo not think what would happen if he abandoned the siege? He must have...and maybe with Horus' order he realized he wasn't getting the recognition Horus had promised, and that Horus wasn't treating him any better than Big E...so he decided that they could fight it out between them without him... 🤷♂
He knew, and was most likely just fed up with everyones shite. Horus had gone mad at that point, his other brothers were also deep in the thrall of Chaos and their legions were following suit. The siege devolved from Astartes vs Astartes to Chaos vs Anything untainted, and he was disgusted with it all and said fuck that shit I'm out. At this point, the Iron Warriors had bled for everyone BUT themselves and at this point we see them truly begin indulging in their own wants and desires.
ugh Naerina narrating automatic thumbs up, then i listen :)
4:29 Those are the Sons of Horus Loyalist Legion from the Roboutian Heresy art by Nemris!
That is the art indeed (artist link is in the video description :3), but it served well enough for a visual representation of the scene described (you'd be surprised by how little art of Sons of Horus terminators in battle actually exists lol)
Peter Turbo beats the defences of Terra with fax and logic
The captions called perturabo, party robber and honestly I love it
Something something "Party Robber's in the house tonight"
Perturabo made the right choise iron within iron without
What if Ultramar annexed Angron’s home world before he landed?
That's already on my list, don't worry. ;)
@@40KTheories 👍
I think Perturabo being the only true clearly thinking Primarch on the traitor side, he recognized the battle was shifting into loyalist hands already and knew the Dark Angels, Ultramarines and Space Wolves would be arriving soon enough.
Perturabo knew the traitors were going to lose due to Horus underestimating his loyalist brothers. Especially that of Jaghatai and Vulkan who actually killed or forced out all of the traitor Primarchs that were killed or forced out.
Sanguinis also killed the most daemon lord on the field. So yeah Horus drastically underestimated his brothers.
But Perturabo would be the only traitor to realize this.
Wow... Horus replaced Perty with the biggest failure of a Primarch... No wonder he failed.
Perty didn't complain again but Morty kept bitching and moaning about wanting to be the one to kill the Emperor so to shut him up Horus put him in charge at the expense of Perty who just blew his top again after being ignored and sidelined all over again.
That must have been a funny whisper from tzeench saying to horus to do that « it will be fun you’ll see » kind of whisper
I actually didn’t realize till watching this video that once Perturabo left and Mortarion was banished that there was basically NO primarch in command of the traitors. Angron by that point (and to be honest long before) was basically just a battering ram. He could cause some chaos, but in truth? That’s it. He would have no interest or desire to do much more to breach the palace walls then throw bodies at it. Which makes it all the more confusing to me HOW Perturabo became a daemon primarch, much less and undivided one considering his absolute disdain for his brothers “pet monsters”.
I think it would have meant imperial forces would get much more mauled on Terra but the void battle would have left them with a choice of being stranded on Terra or withdraw. I think the Lion, Guilliman and the wolves would have been hard to resist hitting you from behind.
I really like the story of Perturabo, although he became a traitor and many people don't like him because he is very "meh". Reading about him shows that he is a great tatictian and siegebreaker and good asset in the traitor's side.
On my point of view, While Horus was the leader and lead them to the cause, Perturabo is that guy who keeps the group together, that make then follow the plan/objective instead let then doing random things like Angron and World eaters killing everyone on sight or Fulgrim and his legion "having fun" on Terra. If he stays on the siege, nobody knows what could happen:
-- He could be decisive for Horus Victory;
-- The traitors could lose(for GW decides reasons), but will be more costly for the Imperium than it was on cannon.
I really like how is a reasonable man and how decisive he was for both traitor and loyalist cause.
Hope you are recovering from your illness you had on podcastus Rem!
Yooo..... 40k theories, can you make a video of the state of the 40k universe but WITHOUT the Imperium and Chaos, as in this timeline Horus won the duel and the other prophecy took place instead? 😀
When talking about Perturabo, the phrase "utterly decimated" takes a very specific meaning, rather than a general meaning.
Ordo Notificus Present! We Will Provide The LIKES!
I got a feeling they made Perturabo leave, because if he were there now, with Hawkboy and his Angels guarding the Eternity gate, Perty and Iron Warriors would use tanks and titans to blast them to kingdom come.
Sanguinius solos one of the largest Titans in Saturnine. Devoting more titans and tanks to fight Sanguinius is mustering rabbits to battle a lion.
@@ZeroNumerous I have read that scene. It was a Warhound, hardly a large titan.
And dont you underestimate rabbits. Dorn was killed by Black Legion marines.
Beside, if titans dont work, we can always use the Holy-Hand-Granade.
We always hear about the Siege of Terra barely being won by the Loyalists, but it seems that the Traitors lost the battle more than the Loyalists won. Horus must be a stand-in for Stalin or Hitler with those amazing strategic bungles.
And now you know why Perturabo didn't make Roboute Guilliman's "Dauntless Few".
0:38 - 0:51...... so he's Gork and Mork fused into one
Just less green
@@40KTheories
Well he's green with envy every time he looks at Dorn.
I mean, Dorn discovered the weakness in Saturnine in the book, while Perturabo had known about it for months. Yes, it was a trap, but a trap hastily put together at the last second. He still managed to overestimate Dorn wrt Saturnine, and if the gambit could have been employed earlier, it would have succeeded.
You think if like, someone just sat down and heard him vent for like a very hundred years hed feel better?
HERESY !!!
He would have taken over after Horus died and you know won
But I don't blame him screw that working for the death guard we don't do well with disrespect Iron Within Iron Without
That could have been the perfect time for Puertorabo to turn back to the loyalist side
Perty should have never turned or once he saw the corruption of his brothers (fulgrim literally tries to kill him) he should have renounced horus. The fact his grudge with rogal took him to Tera makes him a petulant child and his leaving the siege merely another expression of his petulant child like behavior continued. This from a logistical genius and builder is almost an unbelievable character flaw that should have been noticed and dealt with long ago before the heresy.
Of course that would have prevented the story and so we must simply accept the words written as is. Perty was always someone's B until he traded those prison daddies for warp daddies with bigger spikeyer strap on. And he deserves it.
4:10 - When he still had his arms? | 5:09 - Filthy Frank?
I cant afford to be playing the game anymore. So I'm removing all of the links on TH-cam Instagram and Facebook. If I cant afford to play the game I'm not spending hours watching videos about it. Its their fault. I've struggled and sacrificed to keep this passion but I'm sorry enough is enough.
Why was Perturabo replaced with Motarion?
Off the top of my head, I would assume it was due to Horus being gradually influenced more and more by the Chaos Gods, who wanted one of their daemonic servants to take charge as opposed to a "regular" man.
@@40KTheories Thanks. Didn't realise it wasn't a known thing. Would explain why I couldn't find anything trying to look it up.
@@jonathandavies1716 at that point out of all the traitor demon primarchs, mortarian was probably the most saner out of all of them, you couldn't give command to fulgrim or angron.
Peter Turbo got a raw deal…
Horus was to corrupt by the gods to see how far he had fallen, in the end only Pertarabo had the will to resist the influence. To me that makes him the only true primarch for the "traitors" and the rest were just pawns of the four brothers including the warmaster, with such factors apparent is it any wonder that the loyalist won?
Being a daemon prince proves Perturabo was never above the influence, but even if they hadn't fallen to Chaos the traitors had no chance. They simply could not work together due to each of the traitor primarchs being incompetent man-children whose egos were stronger than winning.
To be fair. That applies to about all the primarchs except Vulkan, khan and sang. The rest kinda are just what you described but had more resources and could keep up. This became a battle of attrition more then anything about having better leaders.
I think he knew the outcome would be an imperial victory but his father's imperial truth would be forever shattered, others would begin to see the hypocrisy and mistrust that the Lord of Iron saw and felt. Horus and the forces of chaos wanted to destroy and build nothing but their debased greatnesses slaves to destruction believing it to be freedom.
I haven't see Remleiz's vid dor a while. Why different voice now?
Naerina is a regular fixture on this channel. She primarily does the Homebrew of the Week videos, but occasionally narrates for a theory of lore for newcomers video. She recently narrated a video about the Aeldari gods, so go check that out.
If only the Chaos Legions hadn’t been Chaotic, they might have won.
mint naration😶🌫
It all happened exactly as the warp willed. Keeping humanity divided and battling gives them strength. If Horus wins, humanity and the galaxy is consumed and they starve out.
Naerina is the closest thing to a mother I've ever had
The new lore that the Iron Warriors betrayed the heresy still makes a huge problem. During the Legion Wars everyone blamed the Sons of Horus for the failure and hunt them to almost extinction, but no one cares about the Iron Warriors.
Easy to take the mouth out but harder to take the brain.
So Horus lost because he showed no consideration to the emotions of his family? How ironic.
Perturabo would have won the siege, sieges are by nature very attacker sided since the attacker has the freedom to do whatever he wants while the defender is most often forced to simply try and hold for has long as pooible without a hope for a true victory (Look at most historical sieges). It is also very fitting that Perturabo would leave the siege since he hated chaos and most of his allies had already been corrupted by it and so the war had truly lost its purity, what we also have to keep in mind if that by having Mortarian take over the siege Horus is also not giving Perturabo the credit he is due just like the Emperor.
They probably would of cracked open the line and Horus wouldnt of had to draw the loyalist to him
Oh yeah!
I can't believe that GW have trademarked the word 'Ork'. They just nicked them from Lord of the Rings and put 'K' on the end.
A bit hypocritical of Perturabo to complain about the corruption of his allies while learning to "scientifically master" Chaos from a Word Bearers tutor.
He view chaos as a tool. The tool taking over people is just wrong.
Regarding that all of this will happen in the future, should it no be Perturabo will be instead of was? ;)
I believe perty was a man and wanted to remain a man, and when all his brothers began to become Demons, he left knowing his time was limited amid them at best. He was no fool and no mans sacrifice.
he followed his father words,"a hammer" knowningly or not, do not forget he dispised most of his brothers not just dorn.
For the algorithm.
The heretics would still have lost. Perturabo leaving is a retcon of the battle established by older lore
I think he wisely realized Dorns trap and would have been the one who suffered massive losses had he stayed
Like it says in the video?
@@kelman727 He said to comment what we think
What if Mephiston had been there fighting for the Emperor?