ALSO today, I got the Google Coral TPU working, woohoo! Details here: www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2023/pcie-coral-tpu-finally-works-on-raspberry-pi-5 And please note Pineberry Pi *also* sells the HatDrive! Bottom, a 2280-version of the board that slides just underneath the Pi 5. I didn't show it set up in this video but it's a really neat board that works with even more NVMe SSDs!
that Bottom version seems interesting, I kind of want to combine it with an Intel Optane SSD and see what the performance is with the low latency and high IOps.
they should have just added the plug and play NVME slot so we as a customers do not need to modifying / buying an extra device just for a storage slot.
I’m hoping to see a dual NVMe hat with a PCIe switch at some point so I can run two drives in raid 1, but I’m not sure how well that would work with only one lane
I have been asking about this-it'd be nice for RAID 1 / RAIDZ1 for a little NAS... right now it would not support any kind of boot through the PCIe switch but that's not as big a deal for most of us who just want multiple storage devices! I think one or two makers will come up with solutions, so stay tuned!
@@JeffGeerling There are PCI-e scheduler/multiplexer chips that IIRC work pretty well for storage. I have a mobo with one and it worked pretty well with only a very small increase in latency.
@@ChrisModjeska @JeffGeerling thats what i want to see too, any of those non-bifurcation boards with a 2-4 M.2 slots and a ASMedia ASM2806/ASM2812/ASM2824 or Broadcom/PLX PEX 8712/8724 chip with pcie adapters on the M.2 slots so they can be broken out to a handful of pcie devices. open questions are drivers and power availability tho
I think the HatDrive!Top could do with a big square hole in the board where the NVMe goes so that air from the CPU fan below can blow upwards and cool the bottom of the NVMe drive that's screwed in on top.
I have a set of ESD tweezers for various things. They come in really handy for those ribbon cables. I mostly use it for building keyboards, but they're invaluable however you use them.
I don't love that the new PCI-E connector is in basically the same place and a similar shape to where the DSI connector used to be, but other than that, it's pretty neat to see PCI-E on the Pi. Interested to see what new devices people can connect and use, over time.
@@danielpicassomunoz2752 I _presume_ because they couldn't find the space on the Pi mainboard for a pcie slot - the FFC connector they used instead is a quarter of the size or less, and the Pi mainboard is very dense. But, I don't know. Typical M.2 storage deployments, though, are parallel to the board whereas pcie slots are perpendicular. So integrating an M.2 connector would mean either an SSD sticking out the side (bad) or an SSD overlapping most of the chips and passives on the board and maybe colliding with the USB and Ethernet ports (worse).
@@dansummers2965 i think the main reason is so you have more options on what you connect to pcie. if it would be M.2 on board, you are limited to that. sure, there are adapters to turn M.2 into pretty much anything else too. but i think the FFC connector was the best option bet to give the most versatility.
the PCB where they printed the logo is doing nothing (has no components on either side) and is just in the way for airflow. I understand a big logo is cool but please remove that part in the production model
Having a ground plane there may or may not affect things, but I agree, a future revision of this board could have some more opportunities for airflow (maybe even an integrated space for a fan, or a 3D printed duct!)
ปีที่แล้ว +23
Future versions hopefully will just be the m.2 edge slot and cable that goes to the pi. We don't need a whole card taking up space.
ehhh it’s a hat, it uses the rest of the pcb as construction material to attach properly. Making it in a non standard (non rectangular) shape would be expensive
As much as i love the Raspberry Pi 5, i feel like theres still a lot of missed opportunities here when it comes to NVMe support. Or power management, for that matter- I had to previously scrap a project because of how little power you can actually feed to the Pi.
I agree, why did they not just scrap the SDCard and put a NVME connector on the board itself. It is still a hazzle to get a Pi with a PoE and "Something other than SDCard" into a nice small package that can actually run solely off of PoE. Lets hope they ditch the SDCard in Rpi 6, i think i will just keep my 4b right now, it does what it is supposed to, but with a USB connected SSD sadly.
@@JohnDoe-bd5sz they keep the SD card for education reasons. Schools can't afford those NVMe drives, even though they have got a lot cheaper. Not all projects require a fast and reliable drive. SD card is plenty for many people. Losing that option would be a shame,
I hope Pi 6 goes with a different setup on GPIO. I would really like to see it as a sideways-angled connector so coolers and access to the board aren't restricted by HATs.
How about this, make the plated it through holes again. Or offer the GPIO at the bottom - In my car radio project, I had to Tear out the GPO connector and flip it around so that I could call the raspberry pi 4 properly - Until they understand that the GPIO cannot be in the same direction as the fan The raspberry pie is not a viable industrial platform
They must be developing the PI 6 now considering how long the PI 5 was in the oven. 90 degree header would make soo many other project ideas possible. You can buy a 40 pin 90 degree header and fit it yourself if you are handy with a soldering iron. I got one fitted to my PI Zero 2 W.
All my Pis use an M.2 SSD to USB drive with the Argon One M.2 case. Fantastic solution! Very compact with great cooling. Will be interesting to test this against an SSD to see what real world benefits there are.
Argon One M.2 is the best solution for Pi 4, I am currently running two of them :) This should be a little faster at default Gen 2 speeds, mostly in the latency (USB to NVMe or SATA causes a little loss there), but a lot faster if you bump to Gen 3 speeds!
@@maxgood42 At a first guess, they will make Pi 5 cases with an M.2 bottom where you can use that FFC (completely internally to the assembled case), leaving all USB ports free.
argon case has tested and many other have lot worst than better ice tower but whit ice tower nt can use any HAT on board. and not have many case what can use. need plan and 3D print own case and all peoples not have printer.
Yes... I've been patiently waiting for more pi5 content! Why isn't there a built in boot editor in the bios? At this point they really need to have it on by default to at least try sd first then other drives.
It's a shame they decided to go with the proprietary (?) ribbon connector rather than adding an m.2 slot to the Pi5. The ribbon might be a good (though not necessarily better) solution to connect oddball components, but I'd expect more people would use an m.2.
Can't disagree there! Their reasoning was it would add too much cost to fit an M.2 slot somewhere on the board (and probably require more layers on the PCB), but hopefully it happens someday.
sure, if they were able to fit an m.2 slot on the board without making it bigger that would've been nice, if they weren't able to do that then they made the right choice
@@goblinslayer5404 keeping in mind that I know nothing about electronics or board design, it certainly looks like a 2230 SSD would fit on top if you moved the heat-generating components out of the way. Maybe specify single-sided only if something needs to be mounted underneath it. At least there was enough space for a functionless resistor that tells you how much RAM is installed. It's an odd choice to have 2 HDMI _and_ 2 MIPI connectors, but not a single built-in option for reliable storage.
@@johnq.public2621 my RPi5 arrives in another month or so. Seems the original 2024 RPi5 dates reported a year ago were right. Only early eval deliveries happened last year. Now pre-orders are quite backlogged.
@@johnq.public2621seems RPi5 can be ordered for overnight delivery is you're willing to pay a $50 premium. Could that be why pre-orders for $80 are out of stock?
@@johnq.public2621 @JeffGeerling Finally received my RPi5. My experience with the Pineberry Hat using an inland TN325 1TB all mounted in the topless (see point 3 below) official RPi5 case is similar to Jeff's. The inland seems to be slightly faster than the one Jeff used. I haven't stressed it much while it's been in the case without the top but cpu temp seems to stay under 60C, ranging from 54C - 58C. Downside 1a: In order to change the nvme drive, the Pineberry hat must be unscrewed from the standoffs since the nvme retaining screw is inaccessible between RPi5 and the hat. Pineberry did not provide short enough screws that would allow attaching the the brass retaining nut from the bottom such that the nvme drive could be screwed down from the top. Somehow, Jeff was able to screw his drive down from the top. I would have had the screw sticking up by many threads and not holding the nvme drive down tightly. Downside 1b: If the GPIO extender in installed, it's a pita to disassemble in order to change the nvme drive. I noticed a few reviews showing the hat being installed without the GPIO extender but none with it. Downside 2: Neither Raspberry Pi nor Pineberry include longer screws to secure the standoffs from the bottom of the case. If the standoffs are screwed on with the Pineberry supplied short screws, then it doesn't fit in the case. Downside 3: The Pi case snap-in top rests on top of the Pineberry hat board instead of sliding down on the four corners. A rubber band can hold it on though. 🩹 There are traces on the Pineberry Hat that connect a few GPIO pins to the rest of the board. IIRC, one was power but I thought power was delivered through the FPC. The Pineberry bottom testing will need to wait until I find a case that can house it and the official Raspberry Pi PoE hat comes out.
the card with the ssd would be better mounted at the bottom with a thermal pad or a small heatsink. because with the direct heat of the fan it could overheat. further tests would be needed on this matter.
Just wondering if you could just flip the bottom standoffs upside down on the Pi case (using screws through the bottom) and then the next standoffs would screw down on the Pi itself. Nice video, glad to see this capability finally.
I'm excited to get my first 5 and how I'm going to have to get the HatDrive Bottom to go with it. It would be nice if you could use both at the same time 1 for boot and 1 for storage, but I guess if you really just want a separate boot drive you're stuck with the MicroSD card for now.
That external nvme to usb docking adapter specifically states an incompatibility with that Maker ssd, I think. From it's description: "Compatible with M.2 NVMe SSD ONLY........ NOT Support PCI-e Based M Key AHCI SSD, or any B/B+M Key SATA Based SSD. " It seemed to work for you. What am I missing? Is that SSD B/B+M Key, but not SATA Based?
Personally, I'm a little disappointed with the development path of the newer Raspberry Pi's. It is no longer a cheap, affordable SBC. Instead, the Pi and its accessories now easily add up to $100-$200, and requires a lot of power to run. I recently purchased a Dell USFF mini PC for just $45 off of eBay, and that easily out performs the Raspberry Pi by 4-5X in processor speed. I'm just glad that the Pi Zero W still exists.
You said it yourself. The pi zero exists. Can you fit your Dell laptop in a pi5 case? It really depends what your needs are. If you need a laptop, buy a laptop. If you need a pi zero, buy a pi zero. If you need a pi5, buy a pi5.
Just spied a Mikrotik switch in that rack. Solid choice. They have seriously stepped up their game in the last few years, and no home labber should be without one or more!
I got myself the Pironman case for my Pi5 and it has al the extra boards etc and works fantastic. You dont need to go through all the issues to setup the ssd as I just pluged it into the pironman and copied the system over to it. Have worked with the Raspberry Pi since day one and have built a Dr Who K9 Robot dog using a Pi 4 and wrote my own code for it to do what I wanted. Now learning Pi 5
will 2280 ssd work on the pi bottom ssd hat? same ssd as@09:09except i got the black not blue! plz do a tut on the bottom hat using a 1 tb wd black 2280 :P???
I'm digging the mix of "produced" and "ad hoc" content you've been doing lately. Let's me know you're a real person that makes the occasional mistake that you don't edit out
In nano you can just ctrl-s to save then ctrl-x to exit. Only need to ctrl-o if you want to save as a different name. It just saves pressing enter in between.
That flimsy little ribbon cable was a MASSIVE misfire by Raspberry. People are going to screw that up in the millions. The Pi should've just had an NVMe drive on the bottom and called it a day. 🤦♂
The price was better than expected, but I think I prefer the buttom version they had for this. Also since it takes normal sized drives which are cheaper here.
You should get a top down camera so you don't have to pan back and forth so much handheld. I had to close fullscreen mode because i was starting to feel like i ate too much pi
Where can I find a case, for the Pine berry bottom & a Pi5 active cooler ? I am not opposed to the layered acrylic cases . Do you have a list of retailers, for the case, bottom hat & active cooling fan ? Thx !
I know it's not the same thing as using direct PCIe to a hat but I've been using NVMe with Pi 4 in an Argon One case. They have two models that take Sata or NVMe in the bottom of the case and then use a USB 3 jumper on the back. It works very well. I have a few of them deployed.
Awesome video! Now i just have to wait to get my Rpi 5...some people have all the luck lol Thanks as always for the awesome content and instructions. Keep up the great work.
Keeping the little bits you normally "edit out" remind us that you are indeed human and redshirtjeff has not replaced you with a robot (Though knowing RSJ, we would know anyway!). EDIT: Geez, I need more coffee in my system... My typing is all over the place today!
That's super awesome. I might have to pick one of the bottom ones to see if I can run the RPi over PoE using the PoE hat and the bottom NVMe board. Power might be an issue, but if I can possibly PoE something, I'm certainly going to try.
Hey Jeff, long time viewer here. Just wanted to say - no need to edit the "embarrassing"/"funny" bits out. It was a nice fresh breeze to see other video formats instead of your regular ones (the more... let's say... professional). This video that is kinda vlog-like is really good. Here's to more videos mate, cheers!
It’s nice that Raspberry Pi has updated their imager to update the eeprom now. No need to edit, after imaging the NVME the Pi Imager Software has a pop-up that says you can remove the SD Card. Imager my Crucial P3 last night from within Pi OS. Nice to see Raspberry Pi supporting NVME natively.
The waveshare cm4 carrier board ( cm4-io-base-a / b ) has an nvme slot. It works really nice! The nvme slot is on the bottom which doesn't stand in the way of coolers or heatsinks on the top.
What device are you using at 2:57, that you call the puck? Is it necessary to use that device to flash Pi on to the ssd or is there another way to do it? I'm new to ssd's and am currently building a Pi 5. I've got Pi on a mini usb drive while I wait for an ssd I've ordered to come in.
That's a USB to NVMe adapter, so I can plug NVMe SSDs into my Mac more easily. You don't technically need it. With the Pi 5, if you're running the latest firmware, it can do network install straight to NVMe. Or you can use rpi-clone to clone a working install from microSD to NVMe.
Im using geekworm X1002 and samsung 970 evo plus. for no reason wifi is not working.. only ethernet is working.. but when i use usb boot then everything works just fine. The psu is 27 w and i dont see any power error in my dmesg. can u check on this
Hi! Do you have any plans to compare the Raspberry Pi 5 to the Orange Pi 5 Plus? I'm really hesitating between the 2. On paper it seems that the Orange Pi 5 Plus has a better CPU, native support for an NVME, 2x2.5G ethernet ports, and optional emmc (which could be great to use as the os drive and keep the ssd for storage)
But you can't beat the community of support that is built around RPi, including software compatibility, active development, and troubleshooting. That itself is the advantage that makes many of the alternatives inferior regardless of specs comparison.
@@mattrogers6646 sure, that's why I'm wondering if they could be compared at some point. See if the tradeoffs are worth it. And in his latest video Jeff stated that he had no particular software issues with the Orange Pi Compute Module. So maybe it's fine for some projects
Great video 👍 I'm testing for the last few days RPi5 with NVMe Base from Pimoroni with M.2 SSD 256GB. All works great, thanks to your guidance Jeff, I can do so much more with my RPi5 😀👍
Just ordere a RasPi5, gonna try the passive aluminium cooler-case. Went for an "endurance" sd-card for now. Dont know if it'll boot from usb-sata, dont really care for speed but have some usb3/2.5" sata cases.
You just know that Jeff's going to try to put a 4090 with the 2280 one 👀 It's amazing to hear that finally the SSDs are finally getting some love! Amazing video as always.
Cool, I know with the Pi you could use USB which was nice, if you had the Argon cases that came with either M.2 SATA or M.2 NVMe. I hope Argon updates their case so you can run the ribbon to the storage tray. This is cool.
I didn't test that particular drive on CM4, but for a few others I've tested (like the Kioxia XG6 and XG8), I got close to the same performance at Gen 2 (400-450 MB/sec), but I could get around 800-900 MB/sec on Pi 5 at Gen 3.
I have a longer nvme drive in a metal case, plugged into the usb port on my Pi 5. I boot from that. I will consider that hat in the future though, it looks like a good solution.
I would love to use an Intel Optane drive with the new Pi. The IOPS should be insane, and given that they're discontinued the prices can be ridiculously cheap.
Good job. Very useful. The shutdown command, however, requires a "now" modifier to avoid the delay. Typically, "sudo shutdown now." Also, and it depresses me to mention, but apparently ifconfig is being depreciated in favor of an "io" and "ss" pair of commands. I don't care for them much, but they didn't ask me.
One day, maybe on a Raspi 7, Jeff will manage to get his 6090Ti running and will play TuxCart with 1000fps. And the next day, he'll lean back, stare at the ceiling, and he'll ask himself: "And now?" 🙂 Great work you're doing here, @JeffGeerling!
I have recently purchased a NVMe board from Pimoroni used a Kingston 500gb NVMe. I just installed it on my Raspberry pi5 with a FLIRC PASSIVE cooling enclosure. I was able to fit in the case with hardware supplied from Pimoroni. I was unable to install the base from the FLIRC CASE. The Pimoroni base protects the Raspberry Pi 5 which seems adequate.
good vid ! ...working on setting up HomeAssistant on a Pi 5 booting from NVMe and have found your very helpful vids ! One question -- I really like the acrylic base you have on the bottom, can you share where to find one ? it woudl be great way to mount the Pi to my basement wall where I have my firewall, etc. already mounted. Cheers!
I don't know if it's because I've been lucky or if it's my configuration, but I've never had an SD card fail in a Pi. My configuration is simple, put the OS and all of its requisites on an SD card and setup the home folder as a mount on a USB flash drive. Most frequently you'll get a lot of reads and writes from /home and for the most part the OS will really only ever be read, and even if you're writing to both, it'll be easier to duplex. I started with 64gb for the SD card and a 64gb flash drive, and by the time I stopped using a Pi as my desktop computer I had upgraded the flash drive to 256gb but still had the same SD card 6 years later. Another possible contributing factor is the only time I power cycled it is when there was an extended blackout in my area. Sadly I had at least a couple dozen blackouts in that time, but all except for the past two winters they were generally only an hour or two in length. While I still use my Pi to this day, I don't use it as hard, mostly just to play media on the TV in the living room, so I wouldn't count the past 3 years towards its use, but if you do then that's 9 years without a failure.
ALSO today, I got the Google Coral TPU working, woohoo! Details here: www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2023/pcie-coral-tpu-finally-works-on-raspberry-pi-5
And please note Pineberry Pi *also* sells the HatDrive! Bottom, a 2280-version of the board that slides just underneath the Pi 5. I didn't show it set up in this video but it's a really neat board that works with even more NVMe SSDs!
Why would the Pi imager software not allow changing of settings?
@@greglawson9729It does; once you select an OS that allows settings to be modified it pops up the gear icon.
Stopped doing that all together
@@JeffGeerling
that Bottom version seems interesting, I kind of want to combine it with an Intel Optane SSD and see what the performance is with the low latency and high IOps.
they should have just added the plug and play NVME slot so we as a customers do not need to modifying / buying an extra device just for a storage slot.
Great to see this Jeff -- some impressive results.
Thanks! I can't wait to see if someone makes a few other HATs to make an even more compact, fast little NAS box for the Pi!
Ooh, fancy! Getting a Pi 5 next week, this will be useful. Also happy to see that they make them locally here in Poland!
Gotta go fast!
Joo, a guy from poland, Polska gurom
where can i read that pi 5 is made in poland?
I’m hoping to see a dual NVMe hat with a PCIe switch at some point so I can run two drives in raid 1, but I’m not sure how well that would work with only one lane
I have been asking about this-it'd be nice for RAID 1 / RAIDZ1 for a little NAS... right now it would not support any kind of boot through the PCIe switch but that's not as big a deal for most of us who just want multiple storage devices!
I think one or two makers will come up with solutions, so stay tuned!
@@JeffGeerling There are PCI-e scheduler/multiplexer chips that IIRC work pretty well for storage. I have a mobo with one and it worked pretty well with only a very small increase in latency.
@@ChrisModjeska @JeffGeerling thats what i want to see too, any of those non-bifurcation boards with a 2-4 M.2 slots and a ASMedia ASM2806/ASM2812/ASM2824 or Broadcom/PLX PEX 8712/8724 chip with pcie adapters on the M.2 slots so they can be broken out to a handful of pcie devices. open questions are drivers and power availability tho
You know what would be even better? A HAT with a *real* PCIe connector, so you can just plug in whatever you want! 10Gb networking, video card? Sure!
@@Destructificial The issue there is that it's a x1 interface.
I think the HatDrive!Top could do with a big square hole in the board where the NVMe goes so that air from the CPU fan below can blow upwards and cool the bottom of the NVMe drive that's screwed in on top.
I thought the same thing! Great idea! I believe the fan pulls in air from the top, which is even better.
The stock active cooler blows down.
Excellent idea, fan doesn't have to blow up though, blowing down will pull air from the top around SSD down to CPU heatsink below.
And wouldn't it be easier to put the NVMe board underneath?
I have a set of ESD tweezers for various things. They come in really handy for those ribbon cables. I mostly use it for building keyboards, but they're invaluable however you use them.
I don't love that the new PCI-E connector is in basically the same place and a similar shape to where the DSI connector used to be, but other than that, it's pretty neat to see PCI-E on the Pi. Interested to see what new devices people can connect and use, over time.
Agreed on both accounts! FFC connectors are not the easiest to work with, either.
Isn't m.2 basically a pcie slot? If so, why didn't the just use that?
space on the board @@danielpicassomunoz2752
@@danielpicassomunoz2752 I _presume_ because they couldn't find the space on the Pi mainboard for a pcie slot - the FFC connector they used instead is a quarter of the size or less, and the Pi mainboard is very dense. But, I don't know.
Typical M.2 storage deployments, though, are parallel to the board whereas pcie slots are perpendicular. So integrating an M.2 connector would mean either an SSD sticking out the side (bad) or an SSD overlapping most of the chips and passives on the board and maybe colliding with the USB and Ethernet ports (worse).
@@dansummers2965 i think the main reason is so you have more options on what you connect to pcie. if it would be M.2 on board, you are limited to that. sure, there are adapters to turn M.2 into pretty much anything else too. but i think the FFC connector was the best option bet to give the most versatility.
the PCB where they printed the logo is doing nothing (has no components on either side) and is just in the way for airflow. I understand a big logo is cool but please remove that part in the production model
Having a ground plane there may or may not affect things, but I agree, a future revision of this board could have some more opportunities for airflow (maybe even an integrated space for a fan, or a 3D printed duct!)
Future versions hopefully will just be the m.2 edge slot and cable that goes to the pi. We don't need a whole card taking up space.
@ The M.2 hold down is usually pretty important though.
ehhh it’s a hat, it uses the rest of the pcb as construction material to attach properly. Making it in a non standard (non rectangular) shape would be expensive
@@awwastor totally agree with you. It's a hat. That's how a hat looks like.
7:27 "You might need to go in and out a couple times..." ~ Jeff Geerling 2023
I expect a fancy dinner first, Mr. Geerling
As much as i love the Raspberry Pi 5, i feel like theres still a lot of missed opportunities here when it comes to NVMe support. Or power management, for that matter- I had to previously scrap a project because of how little power you can actually feed to the Pi.
I agree, why did they not just scrap the SDCard and put a NVME connector on the board itself.
It is still a hazzle to get a Pi with a PoE and "Something other than SDCard" into a nice small package that can actually run solely off of PoE.
Lets hope they ditch the SDCard in Rpi 6, i think i will just keep my 4b right now, it does what it is supposed to, but with a USB connected SSD sadly.
@@JohnDoe-bd5sz I SO agree - they missed an obvious opportunity here. Hopefully, they will get it right in RP 6
@@JohnDoe-bd5sz they keep the SD card for education reasons. Schools can't afford those NVMe drives, even though they have got a lot cheaper. Not all projects require a fast and reliable drive. SD card is plenty for many people. Losing that option would be a shame,
I hope Pi 6 goes with a different setup on GPIO. I would really like to see it as a sideways-angled connector so coolers and access to the board aren't restricted by HATs.
Not a bad idea; I've used 90° angled adapters for GPIO before, it would be nice to have that out of the way for many builds.
How about this, make the plated it through holes again. Or offer the GPIO at the bottom - In my car radio project, I had to Tear out the GPO connector and flip it around so that I could call the raspberry pi 4 properly - Until they understand that the GPIO cannot be in the same direction as the fan The raspberry pie is not a viable industrial platform
@@vinniemoscaritolo3318 viable industrial platform, which is why they have the compute modules
They must be developing the PI 6 now considering how long the PI 5 was in the oven. 90 degree header would make soo many other project ideas possible. You can buy a 40 pin 90 degree header and fit it yourself if you are handy with a soldering iron. I got one fitted to my PI Zero 2 W.
@@vinniemoscaritolo3318 Ah yes, "not a viable industrial platform", which is why the raspberry pi is widely used as an industrial platform...
All my Pis use an M.2 SSD to USB drive with the Argon One M.2 case. Fantastic solution! Very compact with great cooling. Will be interesting to test this against an SSD to see what real world benefits there are.
Argon One M.2 is the best solution for Pi 4, I am currently running two of them :)
This should be a little faster at default Gen 2 speeds, mostly in the latency (USB to NVMe or SATA causes a little loss there), but a lot faster if you bump to Gen 3 speeds!
@@JeffGeerling I wonder what Argon40 will be making now...?
@@maxgood42 At a first guess, they will make Pi 5 cases with an M.2 bottom where you can use that FFC (completely internally to the assembled case), leaving all USB ports free.
@@apveening And then the Pi 5 NAS GOD.
argon case has tested and many other have lot worst than better ice tower but whit ice tower nt can use any HAT on board. and not have many case what can use. need plan and 3D print own case and all peoples not have printer.
Yes... I've been patiently waiting for more pi5 content!
Why isn't there a built in boot editor in the bios? At this point they really need to have it on by default to at least try sd first then other drives.
Honestly I'd love to see UEFI native on Pi, someday... we can dream...
It's a shame they decided to go with the proprietary (?) ribbon connector rather than adding an m.2 slot to the Pi5.
The ribbon might be a good (though not necessarily better) solution to connect oddball components, but I'd expect more people would use an m.2.
Can't disagree there! Their reasoning was it would add too much cost to fit an M.2 slot somewhere on the board (and probably require more layers on the PCB), but hopefully it happens someday.
sure, if they were able to fit an m.2 slot on the board without making it bigger that would've been nice, if they weren't able to do that then they made the right choice
@@goblinslayer5404 keeping in mind that I know nothing about electronics or board design, it certainly looks like a 2230 SSD would fit on top if you moved the heat-generating components out of the way. Maybe specify single-sided only if something needs to be mounted underneath it. At least there was enough space for a functionless resistor that tells you how much RAM is installed. It's an odd choice to have 2 HDMI _and_ 2 MIPI connectors, but not a single built-in option for reliable storage.
@@goblinslayer5404 orange pi 5 has a m.2 on the bottom of the board
Wow. I just read about those NVME hat and bottoms yesterday and put off ordering them until I saw a review. VERY TIMELY!!!
Please let us know how they are working out for you.
@@johnq.public2621 my RPi5 arrives in another month or so. Seems the original 2024 RPi5 dates reported a year ago were right. Only early eval deliveries happened last year. Now pre-orders are quite backlogged.
@@johnq.public2621seems RPi5 can be ordered for overnight delivery is you're willing to pay a $50 premium. Could that be why pre-orders for $80 are out of stock?
@@johnq.public2621 @JeffGeerling Finally received my RPi5. My experience with the Pineberry Hat using an inland TN325 1TB all mounted in the topless (see point 3 below) official RPi5 case is similar to Jeff's. The inland seems to be slightly faster than the one Jeff used. I haven't stressed it much while it's been in the case without the top but cpu temp seems to stay under 60C, ranging from 54C - 58C.
Downside 1a: In order to change the nvme drive, the Pineberry hat must be unscrewed from the standoffs since the nvme retaining screw is inaccessible between RPi5 and the hat. Pineberry did not provide short enough screws that would allow attaching the the brass retaining nut from the bottom such that the nvme drive could be screwed down from the top. Somehow, Jeff was able to screw his drive down from the top. I would have had the screw sticking up by many threads and not holding the nvme drive down tightly.
Downside 1b: If the GPIO extender in installed, it's a pita to disassemble in order to change the nvme drive. I noticed a few reviews showing the hat being installed without the GPIO extender but none with it.
Downside 2: Neither Raspberry Pi nor Pineberry include longer screws to secure the standoffs from the bottom of the case. If the standoffs are screwed on with the Pineberry supplied short screws, then it doesn't fit in the case.
Downside 3: The Pi case snap-in top rests on top of the Pineberry hat board instead of sliding down on the four corners. A rubber band can hold it on though. 🩹
There are traces on the Pineberry Hat that connect a few GPIO pins to the rest of the board. IIRC, one was power but I thought power was delivered through the FPC.
The Pineberry bottom testing will need to wait until I find a case that can house it and the official Raspberry Pi PoE hat comes out.
Just ordered the bottom version. Got an “old” Samsung 950 pro lying around that will fit my pi 5 and this perfectly!
Just got my HatDrive! Bottom, and tested installing and booting from NVME and it works!
the card with the ssd would be better mounted at the bottom with a thermal pad or a small heatsink. because with the direct heat of the fan it could overheat. further tests would be needed on this matter.
Thank you for pushing the technology along so that it is useable by the rest of us, who are not so clued up in this Tech.
Just wondering if you could just flip the bottom standoffs upside down on the Pi case (using screws through the bottom) and then the next standoffs would screw down on the Pi itself.
Nice video, glad to see this capability finally.
Finally, was waiting for this video for weeks! Thank you.
I'm excited to get my first 5 and how I'm going to have to get the HatDrive Bottom to go with it. It would be nice if you could use both at the same time 1 for boot and 1 for storage, but I guess if you really just want a separate boot drive you're stuck with the MicroSD card for now.
Yeah; hopefully they can get a board with a PCIe switch, and have two NVMe on one adapter!
That external nvme to usb docking adapter specifically states an incompatibility with that Maker ssd, I think.
From it's description: "Compatible with M.2 NVMe SSD ONLY........ NOT Support PCI-e Based M Key AHCI SSD, or any B/B+M Key SATA Based SSD. "
It seemed to work for you. What am I missing? Is that SSD B/B+M Key, but not SATA Based?
Thanks Jeff. Just installed this on my Pi 5 - After watching this review. Awesome. Thanks for the advice.
Personally, I'm a little disappointed with the development path of the newer Raspberry Pi's. It is no longer a cheap, affordable SBC. Instead, the Pi and its accessories now easily add up to $100-$200, and requires a lot of power to run. I recently purchased a Dell USFF mini PC for just $45 off of eBay, and that easily out performs the Raspberry Pi by 4-5X in processor speed. I'm just glad that the Pi Zero W still exists.
You are absolutely right. Pi Zero W with 1 GB will be best cheap SBC
You said it yourself. The pi zero exists. Can you fit your Dell laptop in a pi5 case? It really depends what your needs are. If you need a laptop, buy a laptop. If you need a pi zero, buy a pi zero. If you need a pi5, buy a pi5.
Really cool Jeff, really liked your delivery and detail. Thanks
Just spied a Mikrotik switch in that rack. Solid choice. They have seriously stepped up their game in the last few years, and no home labber should be without one or more!
I love the value of Mikrotik's gear. So much hardware for so little cash!
I got myself the Pironman case for my Pi5 and it has al the extra boards etc and works fantastic. You dont need to go through all the issues to setup the ssd as I just pluged it into the pironman and copied the system over to it. Have worked with the Raspberry Pi since day one and have built a Dr Who K9 Robot dog using a Pi 4 and wrote my own code for it to do what I wanted. Now learning Pi 5
Why the 'sudo curl'? Shouldn't 'curl | sudo bash' suffice?
Ordered!! Poland to Italy without problem!!
Just got my 5 in Romania, I alerady put it to work, replacing my 4 mini server. Nice work with your video!
Hi @JeffGeerling, thanks for using the MakerDisk NVMe SSD! Great review!
I pre ordered a complete pi 5 kit i can now confirm I'm very hyped for it maybe nvme drives will be fully integrated by the time it arrives
That m.2 ssd you're plugging in appears to be a sata drive as it has 2 notches an M and B key, an nvme drive only has an M notch.
will 2280 ssd work on the pi bottom ssd hat? same ssd as@09:09except i got the black not blue! plz do a tut on the bottom hat using a 1 tb wd black 2280 :P???
I'm digging the mix of "produced" and "ad hoc" content you've been doing lately. Let's me know you're a real person that makes the occasional mistake that you don't edit out
In nano you can just ctrl-s to save then ctrl-x to exit. Only need to ctrl-o if you want to save as a different name. It just saves pressing enter in between.
I...... will need to update my muscle memory!
When I tried this in nano 2.2.6 I only got a message that XOFF was ignored. ^S to save must be something only in newer versions.
Good stuff. Someone will start making cases to fit the HATs and the fan in etc
That flimsy little ribbon cable was a MASSIVE misfire by Raspberry. People are going to screw that up in the millions. The Pi should've just had an NVMe drive on the bottom and called it a day. 🤦♂
The price was better than expected, but I think I prefer the buttom version they had for this. Also since it takes normal sized drives which are cheaper here.
You should get a top down camera so you don't have to pan back and forth so much handheld. I had to close fullscreen mode because i was starting to feel like i ate too much pi
Where can I find a case, for the Pine berry bottom & a Pi5 active cooler ?
I am not opposed to the layered acrylic cases .
Do you have a list of retailers, for the case, bottom hat & active cooling fan ?
Thx !
Nice. Ordered a HatDrive! Bottom. It would be real nice now if Pimoroni would ship the Pi5 that was supposed to go out at the end of October.
3:16 Velcro Command strips. That way you can use that device one-handed without risking a Red Shirt Jeff moment.
I know it's not the same thing as using direct PCIe to a hat but I've been using NVMe with Pi 4 in an Argon One case. They have two models that take Sata or NVMe in the bottom of the case and then use a USB 3 jumper on the back. It works very well. I have a few of them deployed.
Im very curious about boot times with this. I have an openauto project in mind and want the boot time as fast as possible
looking forward to the PCI testing video! Love this content
Awesome video! Now i just have to wait to get my Rpi 5...some people have all the luck lol Thanks as always for the awesome content and instructions. Keep up the great work.
i love that the hat is made in poland, super close to me
What about a water block and setup a cooling circuit that will keep the processor nice and cold.
Sweet. Nice work as always thanks for the video.
Keeping the little bits you normally "edit out" remind us that you are indeed human and redshirtjeff has not replaced you with a robot (Though knowing RSJ, we would know anyway!).
EDIT: Geez, I need more coffee in my system... My typing is all over the place today!
That's super awesome. I might have to pick one of the bottom ones to see if I can run the RPi over PoE using the PoE hat and the bottom NVMe board. Power might be an issue, but if I can possibly PoE something, I'm certainly going to try.
Hey Jeff, long time viewer here.
Just wanted to say - no need to edit the "embarrassing"/"funny" bits out. It was a nice fresh breeze to see other video formats instead of your regular ones (the more... let's say... professional).
This video that is kinda vlog-like is really good. Here's to more videos mate, cheers!
The next step is clearly a m.2 to u.2 adapter and running PiOS on a huge enterprise drive (with external power).
30 TB SSD, I'm in! :D
*an M.2 (because "emm dot too" begins with a vowel sound)
"A" vs "an" is determined by the *sound* that immediately follows, not the letter.
It’s nice that Raspberry Pi has updated their imager to update the eeprom now. No need to edit, after imaging the NVME the Pi Imager Software has a pop-up that says you can remove the SD Card. Imager my Crucial P3 last night from within Pi OS. Nice to see Raspberry Pi supporting NVME natively.
The waveshare cm4 carrier board ( cm4-io-base-a / b ) has an nvme slot. It works really nice! The nvme slot is on the bottom which doesn't stand in the way of coolers or heatsinks on the top.
13:05 is this wifi 7 wlan card? does it support ap mode in the latest kernel the piOS runs?
It's a Google Coral TPU, though I'm hoping to test some WiFi 7 at some point!
awesome! :) Thanks for sharing :) now i want the pi5 even more :)
What device are you using at 2:57, that you call the puck? Is it necessary to use that device to flash Pi on to the ssd or is there another way to do it? I'm new to ssd's and am currently building a Pi 5. I've got Pi on a mini usb drive while I wait for an ssd I've ordered to come in.
That's a USB to NVMe adapter, so I can plug NVMe SSDs into my Mac more easily.
You don't technically need it. With the Pi 5, if you're running the latest firmware, it can do network install straight to NVMe. Or you can use rpi-clone to clone a working install from microSD to NVMe.
Im using geekworm X1002 and samsung 970 evo plus. for no reason wifi is not working.. only ethernet is working.. but when i use usb boot then everything works just fine. The psu is 27 w and i dont see any power error in my dmesg. can u check on this
I hope they work out the board layout in the next version for a proper connector.
Awesome teaching as always Jeff! None of that red shirt Jeff quality :P
I won't tell Red Shirt Jeff you think his quality is reduced :D
Awesome video! Thanks for this. I will order it.
Thanks Jeff always informative!
I believe imager has a way to flash the SD card with the bios preconfigured to search for nvme
Will there be a speed difference from the usb-m.2 adapter with the same ssd? I am wondering if the benefit is "only" the saving of one usb port.
What about memory cooling? Have you measured to what temperature the memory heats up?
Hi! Do you have any plans to compare the Raspberry Pi 5 to the Orange Pi 5 Plus? I'm really hesitating between the 2. On paper it seems that the Orange Pi 5 Plus has a better CPU, native support for an NVME, 2x2.5G ethernet ports, and optional emmc (which could be great to use as the os drive and keep the ssd for storage)
But you can't beat the community of support that is built around RPi, including software compatibility, active development, and troubleshooting. That itself is the advantage that makes many of the alternatives inferior regardless of specs comparison.
@@mattrogers6646 sure, that's why I'm wondering if they could be compared at some point. See if the tradeoffs are worth it. And in his latest video Jeff stated that he had no particular software issues with the Orange Pi Compute Module. So maybe it's fine for some projects
Great video 👍
I'm testing for the last few days RPi5 with NVMe Base from Pimoroni with M.2 SSD 256GB. All works great, thanks to your guidance Jeff, I can do so much more with my RPi5 😀👍
Just ordere a RasPi5, gonna try the passive aluminium cooler-case.
Went for an "endurance" sd-card for now.
Dont know if it'll boot from usb-sata, dont really care for speed but have some usb3/2.5" sata cases.
In case it help, `dmesg` accepts a level, so `dmesg --level=warn+` will reduce noise (or even `err+`)
Bloody brilliant! 👌 👌👌👌 Thanks for bringing this to us!
...its in and again i kinda wiggle things a little bit to make sure im in nicely and you might need to go in and out a couple of times...
You just know that Jeff's going to try to put a 4090 with the 2280 one 👀
It's amazing to hear that finally the SSDs are finally getting some love! Amazing video as always.
Cool, I know with the Pi you could use USB which was nice, if you had the Argon cases that came with either M.2 SATA or M.2 NVMe. I hope Argon updates their case so you can run the ribbon to the storage tray. This is cool.
They will :)
@@79ober My expectation as well.
I'd be interested in seeing that same NVMe drive plugged into a CM4 setup (Turing2?) to compare the CM4 vs Pi5 speeds.
I didn't test that particular drive on CM4, but for a few others I've tested (like the Kioxia XG6 and XG8), I got close to the same performance at Gen 2 (400-450 MB/sec), but I could get around 800-900 MB/sec on Pi 5 at Gen 3.
I have a longer nvme drive in a metal case, plugged into the usb port on my Pi 5. I boot from that. I will consider that hat in the future though, it looks like a good solution.
I love your bash (zsh?) prompt in Apple terminal! Can you share your PS1?
Check out my GitHub - I think under my dotfiles repo.
Good stuff, but you misspelled vi as nano when editing that config file.
hehe
Thanks, was looking for this
Spectacular work from the pi community!!
Would love to have a custom pcie hat that includes both a 2.5Gbps NIC and an nvme slot. Would make for an awesome little NAS.
I would love to use an Intel Optane drive with the new Pi. The IOPS should be insane, and given that they're discontinued the prices can be ridiculously cheap.
Good job. Very useful. The shutdown command, however, requires a "now" modifier to avoid the delay. Typically, "sudo shutdown now." Also, and it depresses me to mention, but apparently ifconfig is being depreciated in favor of an "io" and "ss" pair of commands. I don't care for them much, but they didn't ask me.
are there anything routed under the SSD? i wish it was cut out so the fan would pull air better
Placing such things on top of RPi will reduce air exchange and it can cause performance issues, such extending boards must be mounted under Pi board.
I wonder if I can fit this in a retro boy? The retroboy is a gameboy case hand held.
One day, maybe on a Raspi 7, Jeff will manage to get his 6090Ti running and will play TuxCart with 1000fps.
And the next day, he'll lean back, stare at the ceiling, and he'll ask himself: "And now?"
🙂
Great work you're doing here, @JeffGeerling!
kick ass tutorial. thank you for this. top knotch.
Thanks again! What was the difference in boot time? Also in general use where do notice this extra speed the most?
I have recently purchased a NVMe board from Pimoroni used a Kingston 500gb NVMe. I just installed it on my Raspberry pi5 with a FLIRC PASSIVE cooling enclosure. I was able to fit in the case with hardware supplied from Pimoroni. I was unable to install the base from the FLIRC CASE. The Pimoroni base protects the Raspberry Pi 5 which seems adequate.
The Kingston NVMe memory card is a 2280 which fits fine.
Two videos in one week, Jeff your spoiling us.
Heh, just trying to get some of these things done before I tear down my desk for the office move :D
@@JeffGeerling Good luck with the move.
I have NVMe with a couple of my RPi Compute Module 4
I wish it supported full length nvme, since I find these smaller ones only a little more reliable compared to SD.
The Bottom version does!
A piece of tape could be used to add support for longer drives.
good vid ! ...working on setting up HomeAssistant on a Pi 5 booting from NVMe and have found your very helpful vids ! One question -- I really like the acrylic base you have on the bottom, can you share where to find one ? it woudl be great way to mount the Pi to my basement wall where I have my firewall, etc. already mounted. Cheers!
Any tips on formatting and partitioning the nvme for optimal use?
Is there any reason why this module is not under the board?
I don't know if it's because I've been lucky or if it's my configuration, but I've never had an SD card fail in a Pi. My configuration is simple, put the OS and all of its requisites on an SD card and setup the home folder as a mount on a USB flash drive. Most frequently you'll get a lot of reads and writes from /home and for the most part the OS will really only ever be read, and even if you're writing to both, it'll be easier to duplex. I started with 64gb for the SD card and a 64gb flash drive, and by the time I stopped using a Pi as my desktop computer I had upgraded the flash drive to 256gb but still had the same SD card 6 years later. Another possible contributing factor is the only time I power cycled it is when there was an extended blackout in my area. Sadly I had at least a couple dozen blackouts in that time, but all except for the past two winters they were generally only an hour or two in length. While I still use my Pi to this day, I don't use it as hard, mostly just to play media on the TV in the living room, so I wouldn't count the past 3 years towards its use, but if you do then that's 9 years without a failure.
Good to see they are finally catching up 👌🏼