My Toughest DCC Sound Installation Yet (158)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.ย. 2024
- I've lost count of the number of decoders I have installed over the last 25 years but I can tell you one thing, this is the toughest and most challenging one I have ever done! Getting a decoder, speaker, and Keep Alive in a tiny locomotive model like this requires sacrificing some things like factory installed sockets and even cutting out a little weight from time to time. Even if you don't have a model this small I'm sure the techniques I'll show you will be useful even in larger locomotives. So let's get started.
Everything i used was purchased from Streamlined Backshop (www.sbs4dcc.com)
Econami ECO-100 UK steam decoder
Sugar cube speaker 8x12mm w/Boiler Baffle #4067
TCS KA1 Keep Alive
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Excellent work, Larry.
You, sir...are a flipping genius!!!! Even though I watched you do this, I STILL don't know how you managed it!!!!
Impressive install. My toughest was stuffing sound into a tender-powered loco-driven 4-4-0, and even it had more space than your 0-6-0.
Good job indeed. Some time ago I had to install a Loksound V4 , a 20 x 40 mm speaker with custom enclosure, and resistors for the leds lights, all into the water tender of a 3-truck, 80 ton Shay from Bachmann. I also had to improve the pickups, the wiring, replace the bulbs by led lights, install a fire-effect led in the firebox, and replace also the bevel gears. And I had to do that for two Shays...
Major job, congrats!
Thanks for the vid, I'm getting back into the hobby after 25 years and this is all new to me.
Just when you think there's no Room, voila Can't believe the size of those speakers Incredible !!!
What amazes me is how much sound they put out.
Hi Larry, you definitely needed a delicate touch with that little loco, I fitted a standard decoder into my LMS 'Jinty' 0-6-0 loco which had quite a bit more room inside but it was still tight. I noticed you used the soldering iron tip to shrink the sleeves, I have in the past myself but got fed up of burning fingers so I have just managed to buy a small craft heat gun from one of my local supermarkets which is proving to be ideal. The 'sugar cube' style speakers are god send for those tight spaces. An excellent video with lots of useful info.
Thank you for the tutorial Larry. You make dcc decoder installs so easy. I'm about to embark on some installs on a couple of n scale locomotives I have and I hope I can keep my whits about me while doing them lol.
Very well done Larry. That little Loco is nice looking and when you completed this delicate operation the running and sound was great. Well done sir
Thanks for sharing, Cary
Nice job, Larry! Those 0-6-0 steamers can be a challenge! I installed a Digitrax SDN136PS decoder and a cut down Iphone 4 speaker in a Bachmann HO 0-6-0. It was tight, but I got it done!
I build 4mm scale narrow gauge locos which run on N gauge track. Getting DCC decoders in to them is, er, interesting. I haven’t attempted sound because there’s no room for a speaker unless you put it in the cab and and Iike cab detail.
Streamline Backshop (www.sbs4dcc.com) sells sugar cube speakers in various sizes with rounded enclosures so they fit inside a cab roof and are out of the way. I use them in diesels but they were originally designed for the cabs of steam locos. Gove them a look.
You are amazing......
Another excellent video, well done sir.
You make it look SO easy! And despite the tiny size, you even did it without an optiviser. Thanks for another great video.
And Happy New Year! 🥳
Awesome work Larry
Micro surgeon skills
Well done....a great video. Very brave of you!
Wow!
Congratulations on that project Larry, you did a great job there, you made it look easy, which I know it isn't, I would have said that it would have been an impossibility to fit all of that in such a small loco. I have a Heiljan version of that model, in which the decoder is fitted under the coal load. and it has been nothing but a pain with various running issues guess I got a rogue one. Happy new year regards Jon.
I’ve heard criticisms of both versions. Kernow is still dumping their version for £69 which is what enticed me and I have seen the Heljan one for about £79. Why companies can build smaller N scale models that run well and not these is beyond me.
Thanks Larry, your work is inspiring!! As I recall, you intend this project layout to be used for both a British, and, an American theme...for the American DCC & sound install, please consider the HO Walthers' Plymouth ML-8 gasoline switcher (mine is Walthers' #910-20012, with DCC, but it was never made with sound). the model sold well (2 sold out runs that I know of), and I believe a lot of American 'critter' fans would appreciate such a project. For such a tiny engine, it pulls like crazy, and runs very slowly and quietly, thus the need for sound !! Thanks for this series!
I have one of those with the SoundTraxx decoder in it that was designed for Walthers. I originally planned to install sound but there really is no room anywhere. The only open area is in the cab and the decoder was designed specifically to fit in the cab roof and that is the only way it will fit. I am sure that a sound decoder could be designed for the job but I’m not holding my breath on this one.
@@TheDCCGuy Thanks for responding! New subscriber !
Love your videos...am learning or bringing back to memory a lot. I have neuropathy pretty bad in my fingers, is that going to inhibit my doing soldering, especially in these smaller applications?
Where are you located? I'm assuming somewhere in either NC or SC...based on the name of your layout; however, you don't have that southern accent...LOL!
I think that’s what they call the mid-Atlantic news anchor accent.
What ever happened to service. The manufactures make a set amount of product and good bye. Don't care if it works or not or if you need info or not. Thanks for info on Stewards. I was going to use your video to do that job . Ha! Should have reviewed it.
I have a Hatton's Andrew Barclay 0-4-0 saddle tank loco that is DCC ready, but I wonder if I can add if anything a keep alive, let alone sound. It's a tiny little thing!
I thought that about this one but at least DJM had provided space and wires in the coal bunker that I used for a KA. I also cut out a chunk of weight in the boiler to make a little more room for the speaker. Take a look at the You Choos DCC website and see if he has info on installing decoders in the 0-4-0.
That was a lot of work this time! Lol
That is getting a lot in a small space! Surprised to see this locomotive appears to have no lights.
British steam had no lights or bells like American prototypes. They used lanterns on the front or rear for signalmen to see but otherwise ran dark. When the big GWR King George V 4-6-0 was brought over in 1927 for the B&O centenary of steam celebration they installed a bell. The bell is still mounted on the front pilot today.
@@TheDCCGuy Larry hi from the UK. When I was at work years ago I had to visit an older bloke who had a problem with his home. It turned out that he was one of King George V’s drivers (they had assigned locos then). He gave me a wonderful print of her at speed; bell and all. Sadly I lost track of the picture a long while ago . I still miss it but I remember the conversation with him was brilliant and a job which should have taken minutes lasted hours and two cups of tea!
that was tough? i would consider this a walk in the park conpared to my n scale sound projects XD.
But very nice work on the installation and explanation.
N-scale is not all that hard if a steam loco with a good sized tender. Diesels are a pain unless they are designed for it at the factory. Otherwise it requires milling the fuel tank or other places to put a speaker and keep alives can be almost impossible.
@@TheDCCGuy yeah that's the biggest pain. My very first was br132 where I had to cut out the tank, but the result was worth it. Next up is my old rivarossi bigboy but not in the tender but everything in front so its gonna be difficult.
Very informative video. Thank you. The curved backed speaker for boiler installation intrigues me. Have you installed a speaker like this in a standard steam loco, like a brass or BLI loco? One thing that bugs me is that all the sound comes from the tender. I've been wanting to wire an extra speaker in the boiler, if possible.
Streamlined Backshop sells various sizes of sugar cubes with these curved enclosures. He also has one designed to fit in a cab roof. So you can out a big speaker in the tender a d a smaller one in the loco boiler or cab to get stereo sound.
You have highlighted tow of my pet peeves. 1) Trying to find space( with out destroying existing set up in case your idea doesn't work) for new decoders and speakers. And
2) This one I wish the NMRA would join in and ask, beg someone ( manufacturers come to mind), to please, please, please supply instructions on how to open their engines. They seem to think that we like puzzles before we break our backs to put in decoders in their engines. There's a new steam engine that has a screw under the water tank cover-- really?
I just found the instructions that came with my GP18 Proto 2000 ( one of the first Protos made) and it barely ( but did ) mention to get shell off you have to take off foot boards and fuel tank cover to remove shell.
I have a Stewart F3a and F3b ( original Stewarts) that I don't have instructions for and I can't figure out how they come apart.
How about joining me in this plea?
Manufacturers seem to take perverse delight at these two and some others. Over the years I have just accepted that anything they can put in I can rip put and do my way and make it work-as my Episcopal priest used to say sin boldly! As for the Stewart locos just place your fingernails under the side skirts and pull out-the shell should slip off although it may catch a bit and require some encouragement. I think I showed how to do it in my video on converting a DC loco to DCC.
This particular model is a real pain to take apart especially to extricate the boiler shell from the smokebox. And because the handrail stanchions are very delicate it is almost impossible to do it without breaking one or more. They seem to think that because they give you access to the DCC harness through the smokebox door you shouldn’t need to do it any other way. When I recently emailed Dapol asking how to get the boiler off the new 2-6-0 they wrote back admonishing me that doing so would violate my warranty and refused to provide any further info. Fortunately YouChoos DCC took one apart and pasted photo’s and tips on their website.
You noted the gear noise but didn't seem to attempt to fix this noise, couldn't you use some Labelle grease on the gears?
Yes, I tried grease to no avail, that only interferes with power pickup so I had to clean most of it out. The pickup is directly off the axle bearings where they are set into the split chassis halves and too much grease or oil interferes with pickup. I have been running this model in for over 4 months now including 30 minutes in each direction at 50% throttle on a rolling road and it is not really any quieter than the day I first took it out of the box. Today I went back and loosed the hold down screws 1/4 turn each and that helped some but I am afraid the gear lash is just a fact of life. It is surprising since I have an 0-4-2 that DJM made for Hatton’s and it is very quiet. I guess inconsistency like this may be part of the reason why DJM went out of business.
Thank you for sharing. I'm in n scale and I have a number of steam engines I would love to add decoders to , been to scared to touch. Maybe I will pick one and see if I can get one running in DCC. Thanks again for sharing. Would you consider doing and n scale steam as a video?
I have done a couple N scale steam sound installs for friends. One was a brass B&O 4-6-2 Pacific in which I squeezed a Tsunami2 decoder and KA1 keep alive similar to those I used in this video. It already had a small oval speaker but a small sugar cube would work. The other was a B&O EM-1 2-8-8-4 in which I stuck a Digitrax N-scale sound decoder and sugar cube speaker. That one was more difficult because the circuit board took up too much room and the owner didn’t want it removed. I would have gutted it otherwise and done an install like the one in this video. I will likely do more for him in the future but I have not seen him or operated on his layout since about Feb. These types of installs can be done in N-scale but it helps to have a big long haul tender to get it all in. If yours is an American prototype then I suggest the small Tsunami2 decoder, KA1, keep alive, and small sugar cube speaker like I used in this video. Those are about as small as you can get.
@@TheDCCGuy Thank you I will look into it. I really like the ESU sound decoders. I have a little 2 6 0 I would like to add sound. Oh and a Kato Mike a 2 8 2 that I run that sound would greatly improve the use of.
Hey Larry!
How do you plan these installations out? I have an N Scale Atlas 4-4-0 that has some sentimental value to me (I worked on the loco's prototype).
It's a DC loco that wasn't built with DCC in mind, but I have a DCC layout and want to convert it to DCC with keep alive (since she doesn't run very well as-is anyway).
However, the shell of the engine doesn't have much clearance and so I'm likely going to be forced to work in the tender. I'm afraid about messing things up during the install and ruining this loco that I really like. Do you have any tips on how you decide what will go where when doing a tight installation like this? How do you know when you're going to cut something to make it work? Like why not cut the coal bunker for the speaker and mount the keep-alive near the front, instead of the other way around?
You first have to find a space that will hold the speaker and decoder. With sugar cubes space isn’t usually a problem but getting the decoder in may require going with the smallest available. Same goes for a keep alive. I have cut coal loads out and replaced it with wire screen covered with coal so I could install a speaker. I have cut holes for keep alives and decoders. You really have to try anything that works. The combination I used for this loco are about the smallest I know of.
were you actually touching the heat shrink with your iron?
Yes, the polyolefin tubing can take the heat and not burn whereas PVC tubing will. I just stroke the tubing with the tip of the iron and it shrinks right down.
Nice vid, as usual.
I've always heard about Tsunami2 decoders and wasn't aware of the smaller Econami units. I have a small N scale Model Power 2-6-0 steamer that they might fit. Do you know off hand which cat number is for American steam?
Unfortunately they no longer make the Eco-100 for the US market. Something about not being able to get enough critical parts to produce them in the quantity we need here, but they can make enough for the UK market! So if you want a small decoder like that the TSU2 is it. The LokSound micro is nice but try to find a steam sound package for your locos-they mainly have diesels and only a select few steamers.
@@TheDCCGuy Thanks for replying. Several eBay listings show ECO-21P models but with different 88x numbers, some saying UK, some not. Yoy.
The Eco-21P is the 21 pin version and there is a PNP version that is similar to an HO diesel circuit board. I really miss the old Eco-100 as it fits a lot fo applications. It would be a good idea to visit the Soundtraxx website and familiarize yourself with their stock numbers before ordering anything on eBay.
@@TheDCCGuy I've been to the Soundtraxx site several times. They really need to redesign it to answer buyer questions like mine.
They have a separate site for their UK versions. I guess they do it that way to try and avoid confusion but with eBay being an international source it gets mixed.
What size wire do you use for Dcc decoders? Oh and love the videos you do.
I have a plastic container full of leftovers from previous decoders that I mainly use. I also bought a bundle of decoder wire that Digitrax sells in all the standard colors they use on their decoders. I think this is about 28 ga but some decoders have wires that look even thinner.
@@TheDCCGuy i did a bit of googling, and apperently they are commonly 30 ga
@@TheDCCGuy watch your videos will a dcc decoder handle the current draw from a smoker with out destroying it if so what models would you suggest
I want to install 50cc and sound in an old 0-6-0 Mantua, what decoder should I use?
You first might want to consider repowering it using a kit from NWSL (nwsl.com/collections/repower-kits), especially if it has an old open frame motor. Those pulled a lot of current even when new and the magnets lose their magnetism over time and often at least need replacing. The type of decoder will be dependent on the stall current which I discussed and showed how to measure in a previous video # 89. I would suggest you look at Soundtraxx decoders as they have a good selection of steam chuffs, bells, and whistles. You can listen to their sound selection on their website. Depending on your loco either the TSU1100 or TUS2200 will likely work, again depending on stall current.
@@TheDCCGuy Thank you for the info