@@evian. Surprisingly, my ex was virtually mute, I was always trying to get her to talk, she would probably accuse me of 'unscripted waffle' but only because she was too stupid to know what I was talking about.
@@madisonmoon5346 exactly you don't need to. BPD doesn't make you an inherently bad person and feeling like a bad person does nothing for the pwBPD but make them feel worse.
Woooow, this is something I’ve feared in the back of my mind.. “what if I am a narcissist” usually when I do something pretty crap. This was def insightful. Love these videos
SAME!! But then I’m like would I be asking this if I was? Wouldn’t I be thinking nothing could be wrong with me...? Idk I know my mom is a undiagnosed NPD especially when looking back on what memories I can about my childhood. The traits she has displayed are things I have never done.
A true narc thinks they are fine and everyone else is messed up. They dont feel guilty about they way they think or act. My birth giver is a poster child for narcissists.
As a woman with Bpd traits, I do much better & am completely normal around healthy people. It's my fear of being controlled, by an abuser...whether male or female, that I become a different person & their switching triggers me to switch & react.
As a woman diagnosed with BPD I agree! I'm the same way, healthy, sane, happy when around healthy people in healthy environments. When I'm in the opposite, toxic people, neegy vampires, users, and toxic environments I tend to like "switch" and I can feel the switch in personality too like a defense mechanism! I start to act out and I start drinking to try to cope! My boundaries have been up lately where I don't tolerate these people and environments anymore. I either cut them off or I leave those situations now, whereas as before I used to just "tolerate" and deal with it and try to suppress
I have BPD and MDD, and my roommate has NPD. You are absolutely right about the entitlement, and how the person with BPD will be overly accommodating. It was not a good combination by any means and I'm moving out at the end of the month because I'll no longer have my generosity taken for granted.
This video gave me 2 things: -RELIEF (I have BPD and don't want to be mistaken for narcissist) -UNDERSTANDING (my narcissistic brother and mom) I actually have 100% more sympathy for them after hearing Dr. Fox explain. This helps me move on easier in life.
I am on the BPD spectrum and I dated someone on the Covert Narcissism Spectrum. I blamed myself for things going wrong. Now I realise that it’s very common for Borderlines to date Narcissists.
I'm recovered from BPD and married a community narcissist in my first marriage. Now I'm about to filed for divorce from my second husband who is BPD and covert narcissist. I went from being BPD to being a caretaker 🤦♀️ the covert thrived off my caretaking and bled me dry within 6 months! Take care of yourself. It's ok to be single. It is better to take care of your own recovery alone if you need to ❤
Thank you so much for dedicating your time to help people all over the world who have had trouble finding clarity with these topics. For a very long time I thought intense emotional pain and instability was just something everyone dealt with, and that because my emotions were breaking me down so much it meant that I was simply a weaker person then everyone else. Finding your videos has helped me to step back and really see what's going on in my mind and see that I can ask for help and maybe things will get better. Thank you
I know I have borderline personality disorder, but the fear of being wrongly diagnosed is always in the back of my head.What if I actually have a comorbid diagnosis, and am not getting the proper help I need. This video really helped me out, and was extremely insightful, thank you so much for sharing!!
Yeah I don't see borderlines' suicide attempts as a setup for a rescue. In part it's often thinking there is absolutely no other recourse to escape an excruciating current lifes' status and pain usually triggered by a recent event that would be painful to anyone. But everyone doesn't experience the erroneous sense that the despair is absolutely inescapable, forever and therefore intolerable...unless one wasn't alive. Illogical to even borderlines on a better day but continues to happen.
This exactly. When I'm having SI and dissociate and melt into my spiral, I'm not thinking about anybody else, anything else but how to SAVE them and myself FROM myself. How the pain I cause hurts me as much as it hurts them and everyone would be better off with me gone. I dont want to be saved in those moments. I want to fucking die. It's embarassing and I largely deal with those emotions alone in seclusion. I tell my wife after I handle the emotions, but It is unbelievably embarassing that I go through this and the last thing I want to do is be rescued. I want to die. Lol. And on good days, I know that suicide is not what I want, that I can be better, that this isn't the end of my life, living with BPD. It seems almost insane to me that I can feel that low and have that line of thinking when I have a 3 year old crawling all over me looking for horse rides. But sometimes, it just doesn't matter. The only thing that keeps me alive is the commitment I made to my kids to not be my parents.
Every time I've attempted suicide it was a rescue attempt. I was fed up but I wanted to be saved. I didn't want to die. Dr. Fox knows that BPD's do ffed up stuff and the rescue thing is very real!
Hads, I suspect the same with my mother. But don't bother diagnosis, important is we survive and lower expectations, set bondaries, go gray rock, seek help, maybe DBT? Maybe cut contact, at least for a while? Don't feed a narc mom.😜
Wow this was so helpful and informative, I felt really understood at 9:48 when talking about feeling as though one will disappear if not at the centre of attention and needing to feel valued. Thank you for this insight! I always learn something new from you videos, this time I learnt a whole bunch of new things. Thank you ✨
Wow! You totally nailed my two daughters! One with BPD and the other with ND. Their father has ND and I would fall more into the catagory of the BPD. I definitely have some traits of BPD. I love listening to your videos. They are so helpful to get my head around all of this. It breaks my heart as well.
It would be useful to hear more about what it looks like when one person has both NPD and BPD. My mother was diagnosed as BPD, but I believe she also had strong narcissistic traits (but without the grandiosity). So she had extreme emotional instability, but she also demanded that I as the golden child make her the center of my life. And she used every form of deception, manipulation, and emotional blackmail she could think of to force me to comply.
I wish there was videos like this for me back then. The first person I ever came close to marry had both of these disorders and it really put my brain through the mill. We were together for 5 years and it took me around 5 years to repair from the trauma bonding. I just honestly feel bad for her at this point because I have no idea if she is capable of doing the self reflection to have a better life. She's been through quite a bit of relationships since we split, and I heard she was meaner to each one. 😑 Sigh, the things I would tell my younger self to watch out for.
In the past, it seemed my BPD was fueled by alcohol! Life is so much better without alcohol, and after awhile one can see themselves and the world a whole lot clearer. It took me many years to figure out what was wrong with me because I used alcohol to “medicate”myself . Alcohol, clear thinking, and good decision making, don’t mix. And more than anything you have to have a clear mind to heal wholly.
Alcohol causes a release of the neurotransmitter Gabba...which induces calm. However, as alcohol use increases and more Gabba released, the brain releases more of the excitatory neurotransmitter glutamate. The alcohol is first soothing than increased anxiety follows...as well as the depressive after effects and regrets that happen due to the alcohol use. Alcohol definitely was problematic for me too. So harmful...and I was just looking for an escape from the overwhelming anxiety😬 I've found good sleep, no alcohol, meditation, journaling, yoga with Adriene, routine...all help so much. I wish you continued improvement, connection and peace 💛💫
Did you feel you were able to open up more to a partner emotionally when you drank? But the next day ruminate and regret being impulsive, and what you might have spilled to them? My ex did this. Still not sure what disorder/s she had though.
Yes! My parents were definitely NPD!! As well as verbally, physically, and emotionally abusive. Never cared at all about how their actions affected their children.
Thank you Dr Fox for your channel and all the information, this was the most helpful and properly informative video i saw regarding the differences and similarities between NPD and BPD
Ive had all traits of bpd at several points but ive found through treatment and learning better coping mechanisms i can sometimes lose certain traits for extended periods of time, ive heard people say they used to be the same and now have 4 or less traits and have been that way for a year or longer Its helpful to me watching these videos seeing you be supportive and informative, i hope people living with individuals with mental health strugles watch your videos as much as i have today
Thank you for explaining what "Cluster B" actually means. I have watched tons of videos and read books on NPD, and have heard the term, but never heard/saw it defined.
I would hit the “like” button on this video simply for the fact that you did not say, “I love you” at the end of it, as some channel hosts do (🤮). That said, I will also be “liking” it because it’s a helpful video. Thank you.
Regardless of the labels, they can be very damaging behaviours. I was married for several years to someone with personality disorders. It was almost impossible to ever please him, and he got rather aggressive and at times extremely violent. I still love him, but I refuse to be treated so poorly every day. I truly hope that he gets help. I was seeing dr for 3 years prior to our breakup, and the dr explained to me that its like playing a poker machine with your emotions. You pour in alot but you dont ever get much back . Sad for my ex that he ended up losing everything, I think every day how he will not seek help. I wish he would, I would stay then.
I found this video informative but was hoping to hear more about how someone co-morbid would present. Knowing the differences between the two disorders I find it hard to discern how someone could have both, or how that would manifest. Could you do a video on this please. Thanks.
I have been in an on and off relationship with a man for 2 yrs. I have been confused for awhile because he had traits of NPD BUT he has some of BPD BUT I always leaned towards BPD because he can be empathic, he HAS cried real tears and I have seen pain in his face. Either way it has been very difficult to walk away from a person who didn't conciously choose to be this way. I have learned things that triggers his behavior.
I am in a relationship that is similar to this... it literally makes me break down every time I think about leaving or try to leave. I feel so guilty because it's not my partners choice, frequently they don't even seem to know they're doing it. I keep trying to talk them into going to therapy regularly to manage some of the behaviors, not much luck to this point with that though. I hope you've been able to make some headway in yours.
I have a friend who unfortunately has got into a lot of trouble with the law. His personality seems to swing between NPD traits and BPD traits. On the one hand, he's absolutely desperate for validation, attention and reassurance. He will go to extreme lengths to "befriend" anybody and everybody to get it, no matter how desperate it makes him seem. But once he's there, his behaviour can be very different. He can treat people with contempt if they're not giving him what they want, and can be very smug, arrogant and a terrible show off. He often devalues / discards anyone who isn't giving him what he wants. Yet in some of his other friendships, it's very different. He will allow them to walk all over him, treat him terribly, but he can also do the same to them behind their backs (lots of sleeping with their partners behind their backs etc).
I'm very curious, I've been having a hard time finding any information on what a comorbid narcissist, borderline person would look like and I'm wondering if you happen to know. I found one study looking at this, and considering how common it's suggested in several studies, I would believe that it would be studied more in depth, however, I have found very little on it. I'm curious how it might be different from just narcissism or just borderline, what traits from each would show up in the comorbidity or would it be a bizarre mixture of traits that looks just different enough from how they usually appear in borderline and narcissism?
My mother was both. Npd and bpd. Both of them combined looked like schizoaffective personality disorder. You rarely see those and is extremely hard to diagnose such patients. When she was attacking - sne acted as narcissist. When she crawled in the corner protecting herself - she was borderline. And she completely changed, as she was anoher person Scary shit. My mother killed herself when I exposed her sadism btw
I know someone that seems to be a severe Covert narcissist, with a 2-year-old. She shows real feelings for him as long as he fits into her mood (not saying she is not abusive). She displays real sympathy. Let me give an example; when the two-year-old gets hurt she will show sympathy for him, but always blame herself or someone else for the incident. Is she really displaying real sympathy or is it just an act? Can this be a mix between Covert Narcissism and Borderline Personality Disorder (if it is even possible)?
Would love to hear if you receive answer to this. My wife has borderline and narcissist traits, and I suspect more than enough to be diagnosed with either BPD, NPD or both, but for a lack of willingness to seek help or believe anything is wrong. I haven't accused her of having either of these for the record, but was trying to get her to seek help for anxiety or depression to get her foot in the door. One thing that keeps me asking myself questions though, is what seems to be genuine affection for our young children. Don't get me wrong, she can be quite cutting if they do not do what she wants, but she does seem to genuinely care and fear for them. I guess I will know better as they grow up and make life choices which differ from her desires.
I am curious about this as well. I know someone with a BPD diagnosis, but she has this whole public persona is super NFP So much so in fact that the way she talks to people and the way she comes off with her charisma is identical to my ex that has NDP. She certainly has BPD traits, but she also uses people for her own gains as though every relationship in her life is there for the sole purpose of serving her. She even nicknames all of her friends and even her clients so that she can make them her own. Strange.
Please! Please could you go over BPD comparisons with specifically the Covert Narcissism area of NPD? I find there may be even more overlap over these specific combinations. Perhaps even more specifically the BPD “subtypes”: discouraged and self destructive? (I know they may not be legit used subtypes and we maybe shouldn’t go by these as labels but I found using them possibly helpful in explaining what I’d like to learn about when contrasting more specific mindsets and behaviors of BPD with NPD.) I recently viewed the video you made about Covert Narcissism and now have landed here and I feel there could be even more of an overlap or interaction (in traits or even in having a dual diagnosis?) with That particular “kind” of NPD and the ways in which you’ve described BPD here? That video has been so helpful in understanding NPD a bit more beyond just what I’ve heard through the grapevine! So thank you so much! This video is where I came immediately after and I was wondering if we were to compare that video’s kind of narcissism and BPD would it change any of the comparisons made here? (Sorry if this is a lot to answer to!)
This is the breakdown and explanation Ive been looking for. I suspected my partner was Narcissistic because of certain behaviours but they never truly fit into the categories .....but Borderline fits like a glove. Thank you.
I wish I could have people understand me and understand my needs and can meet them without me having to explain and let them know what i need. I feel like not only will I burden them, but I will also feel uncomfortable seeing them try and have them know what my triggers are. I can never win 😔
Oof! That portion about narcissistic injuries really hit home. The tattoo I use as my profile picture is representative of the pain I felt from being ‘stabbed in the back’ via my ex’s online infidelity. “How could you have done this TO ME?! After everything I have done for you - after all the the efforts I have made, you decided to repay ME by breaking MY trust?!” Despite her repeatedly expressing that it had nothing to do with me, I was left feeling incredibly unworthy, ugly, and inadequate. Rationally, I understood that her behaviors weren’t caused by me (I knew from the beginning that she had a long history of these behaviors); however, I felt completely defeated that “I put so much effort into the relationship for nothing” and came to the conclusion that I couldn’t fulfill her (or anyone). I made it about me. Yikes.
Thank you for your acknowledgement of potential abuse history and suicidality in NPD. There is a misconception that abuse history is uncommon for narcissists and that suicidality and NPD are somehow mutually exclusive; also that NPD does not cause harm to the disordered person themselves. I also have a lot of appreciation for your frank and compassionate explanations. You don't sugarcoat, but you take steps to be conscientious of the feelings of your listeners including people who may have these disorders. It has the effect of creating a more welcoming listening environment and I expect often, a more comfortable and receptive listener.
First I would like to say how much I appreciate you Dr. Fox, how much your videos have been helping me over the last few weeks. Also, how huge it is for me and probably people like me, that you approach bpd with such understanding, compassion, and respect were it’s typically so misunderstood and stigmatized even by a lot of professionals. With that said I am a bit thrown off on the topic of comorbity between bpd and npd and hope I can get an actual response to clarify 😂 From my research, experience and understanding of the two disorders, I can see how a person might have some traits of the opposite disorder. But I do not see how the two disorders in their entirety could coexist. Let me explain- while both might look similar from the outside with episodes of rage, some degree of splitting, idealize/devalue cycle, rocky relationships... as you mentioned these things are motivated by completely different factors. Npd idealize (love bomb)/devalue (abuse), and of course the final phase discard as a way of obtaining and extracting sufficient supply and as means of manipulation and control. Bpd idealize the people that they care about and see them as all good and light, then split to devaluation when triggered by something the person has said or done that hurt them and see them as all bad and cruel. Then upon them doing something nice they are idealized and all good again.... Npd rage when they feel criticized, controlled, or exposed. Bpd rage because they are overly sensitive and overwhelmed by emotion or in a frantic reaction to some real or perceived abandonment. Etc. However I think they’d have to be mutually exclusive because of some of the main characteristics of each disorder... npd have few and very shallow, superficial emotions based purely on their own desires and false self image. They act based on their own logic. Things they do and say are very calculated and always meant to further whatever their agenda may be even if it’s not obvious.Bpd experience an abundance of extremely deep and intense emotions. They react quickly and usually inappropriately to situations based on these emotions and find it very difficult to control and over power the emotions logically. But most importantly, npd naturally lack empathy. They find it difficult or impossible to consider someone else’s point of view if it opposes theirs and don’t feel bad for causing someone pain if it was a result of getting what they wanted at the time. Bpd has a significant capacity for empathy. Sometimes having a tendency to put others feelings even above their own and feel extremely guilty and remorseful if they hurt others. These two things specifically are so opposing on a fundamental level and are such significant defining characteristics of each disorder I can’t see how they could coexist.
Thank you for your research, insight, and education. I do want to point out one thing seeing as I have borderline personality disorder (mother narcissistic borderline), And I want to zero attention and zero eyes on me. That’s also why I did not have a wedding. I just feel constantly judged, everything I do is wrong etc. I know that’s extreme paranoia as well, but I just wanted to put it out there that some borderlines do not want any attention on them.
I'm pretty certain I have BPD, but I don't meet any of the requirements of NPD. If anything, I have a very low self esteem and feel like no body likes or understands me. I definitely never feel like I'm smarter or more powerful than others. In fact, quite the opposite.
Well narcissm has variations with the most common being Overt and Covert. Overts are the stereotypical narcissist. Cocky, arrogant, entitled. While coverts are the exact opposite. Covert NPD is often referred to as "vulnerable narcissm" they are insecure, loners, have low-self esteem. BPD and Covert NPD have many similarties, often to the point they are indistinguishable.
Been sucked into the whirlpool after shutting down when not feeling safe or sure of myself. Hospitalization x 2 with increasing medications and more diagnosis. The medical, counseling and psych med providers do not communicate well with one another, and do not consider differences between bipolar and borderline/ type B disorders. It appears to be easier to prescribe meds and see what happens, than to figure out what is going on, and then consider appropriate treatments. Meds may help, but only after correct diagnosis. So frustrating. Thank you for helping to clarify differences, and providing a guide to communicate clearly my conscerns.
+L J this is a constant issue within the field and I’m sorry you’re going through it. Stay strong and seek a professional you trust to help you through the process.
Thank you - this video is so insightful. I seem to attract alot of narcissist because i am alone and so I am a workaholic who is co-dependent And than when I am alone- I am BPD. So I found this video to be spot on and insightful .
Hello Dr. Fox I think my mom may suffer with NPD. I have BPD and Bipolar; and suffered severe neglect and abuse from my father as a child and have no contact with him anymore. But I’ve also struggled with my mother, who I love very much, and recently started considering that she has NPD. It’s hard to get unbiased, and especially not attacking, information on NPD, how to help someone with NPD, etc. I do believe she did a lot of things wrong. I know from her own admission that she doesn’t feel empathy in the same way as other people, and it scares her. But she’s not a bad person.
Anyone know of wanting to escape painful or perceived painful circumstances is a borderline thing? It’s usually triggered in me realizing something isn’t what I want in life (that what I want is elsewhere), then this grey depressing veil comes over me making me hate my life and so many things in it. Feeling like a victim/at fault for everything. I know this isn’t the truth but it’s hard to see at times, and unpredictable when this drastic change in perception occurs
1-2% 👀 One look at social media & I can clearly see it’s a hell of a lot more than that. Very good analysis otherwise, as a BDP with 38 years experience living with NPDs you broke down the similarities & differences brilliantly. Although I didn’t hear you mention empathy, BPDs tend to have it & can understand the consequences of their actions. NPDs don’t in my opinion.
He mentioned that a lot of people have traits without being full-blown. However, you see their more extreme behaviour online and it may seem that they are full-blown, when in normal life they may not act out like that at all (or certainly not as much). Secondly full-blown types are probably going to be more active and visible online and therefore give a false impression of how common they are in real life. Remember these disorders can have a powerful and potentially highly toxic relationship with social media.
I agree. I think someone with BPD will look very much narcissistic when in the middle of a trigger, fixated on whatever is causing pain at the moment. Fixated on their own suffering and forgetting (or not being capable at the time) or fully realizing the other persons suffering, but after they act or speak impulsively will actually feel a deep sense of remorse and shame for how they acted (which actually perpetuates their feeling that they are inherently a bad or flawed person). Whereas someone with NPD can’t see how they effect others at all. That would mean that they would have to be capable of perceiving themselves as flawed and that inherently is impossible for them (which is why they are unable to see their true self but only the false self/masks that they ware).
Hmmm yes and no. I think a bpd can have sympathy somewhat but, I'm not sure, if they can every truly empathize b/c that would require relating to others and w/o a true sense of self it is impossible to put urself in their shoes. Neither feel true empathy b/c the borderlines view of ppl including themselves is always shifting and the npd has a false idealized sense of self. BPDs do have somewhat more of a heart than NPDs, and they may not wish to hurt ppl even if they do w/ all their testing to see if the person will leave, pushing and pulling or w/e, where as the NPD knows they hurt ppl, and they do it crueley w/ the intention of doing so in order to control, and manipulate, and often they tend to be somewhat psychopathic, where as the bpd usually knows not what they do, and just does it to avoid feeling abandoned, or to test others to see if they'll abandon them. The NPD is more aware in the moment and ill intended, the BPD is more instinctively always trying to avoid pain and later may regret it when they see the pain they caused. The NPD is more the abuser type who consciously abuses b/c they want domination, superiority and control, the BPD is more of the self-harmer, or the one who gets abusive only out of fear unaware they're being abusive. Don't let the NPD fool u. They know they hurt u and are completely aware of their actions. They're just abusive and manipulative trying to play dumb so u won't leave (whether they admit it or not). Both are very insecure even if the NPD hides it even from themselves as a facade but, the borderline does have a heart beneath it all where as the narc is heartless.
I believe my mother is undiagnosed NPD. I asked around and other people with NPD moms sounded EXACTLY like my mom. As well as talking to people with their experiences growing up and what that looked like. There were so many similarities with the disorder and how they react to the situation. it was more than just a normal person being a narcissist.
Saw your diploma from Texas Tech. Saw NCAA championship game against Virginia other day. I feel your pain. I graduated from UNC. I also watched the Carolina-Villanova game where Carolina got beaten on last second shot from half court.
As someone with bpd in the past whenever I had resorted to self harm or suicide attempt it was never fueled by a want to be rescued, it was always fueled by the feeling of being locked in a jar and there being only one way out
I have BPD. What causes it? My mother was a narcissist and my father was an alcoholic/sex addict. Mom was very invalidating of me and my emotions. She never said she loved me and often invalidated my perceptions. While I felt my father loved me to the best of his ability I did not feel my mother loved me and perhaps didn't like me. Would this be a contributing factor?
I was able to mostly overcome my BPD when I looked back at my mother as a human who struggled in her own ways at the time, and that she did love me even though she didn’t say it, and I humanized her and forgave her, that was huge in my journey to recovery. I must mention though that she left my narcissistic father and then she changed a lot and now we have a much better relationship, so that also probably helped me to recover.
Cagedunicorns, Yes, BPD alone can be debilitating as you describe, and even more so if you also have major depression and/or other diagnoses. Please hang in and keep watching these and other supportive videos.
That sounds like me. Between my mental and physical health issues, I'm currently not able to work. The embarrassment of this causes me to isolate from others, whenever I desire to connect. It's hellish.
Thank you for your clear and detailed explanations in your videos. I am grateful that you are interested in helping us with PDs when so many other specialists are not.
Thank you,clears up the fact I am definitely targeted by a narcissist. I am unsure what I'm dealing with in another neighbour who appeared to want to come for coffee. Seemed very friendly and told me the same narcissist had tried to lose them their rental home 3 times.Then they asked if I could lend them some money.They seemed desperate so I did.A month went by and another request and this time it was small amount. On day they repaid,they asked for a large amount.Friends don't treat you like that and I said no.Now they contact to ask for compensation for my pet attacking one of their fish,no photo,no confirmation that it was mine. 5 others go in their garden because they leave cat food outside.I said no proof,no money.They have now teamed up with the narcissist who is urging them to further action again st my pet,to the point where I have had to sign her over to a place of safety because I cannot provide that for her.It was soul destroying to have to do that because of the narcissist seeking revenge and the other family trying to get money by whatever means.For the 2 enemies to join together, does this mean the 2nd family have a personality disorder as well? I feel as if their is no one normal around me some days.
My new favorite YT channel! I really am hopeful that I will be able to get well thanks to your vids and Im finally back getting treatment from a new therapist. But as alot of yall know BPD symptoms can flair up outta nowhere even when your chillin in a good mood. And I've just gotten to a point where all my baggage is seeping into every area of my life and im fighting so hard to push it away and its time to try something new. This is the first time ever that im willing to do whatever it takes. It broke my heart when my fiance and kids mom left me, and married the first guy she met after me and started a new family of their own. Cos deep down i felt in my heart this amazing relationship was eventually going end. Then it did and kinda reinforced my belief. Plus my dad had it and my parents didnt last. Ever since we broke up Ive felt like being able to get married and start a family of my own was never going to happen cos my relationships don't last long and typically don't end well. But I am hopeful for the future Im not giving up. People with BPD deserve happiness and I think (or at least i hope lol) are capable of starting families and staying married for the long haul. Hate to say it but i kinda don't believe in marriage. I want to so bad though
I am a Human. With many disorders, depends on the doc. I am a human. I am alive. I am surviving. I am free. I am healthy. I am satisfied with my life. I am alone. I am a mother, grandmother, sister and friend. I am free of labels now. I have had so many it makes me realize that mental health is the ABNORMAL…AND has been for decades if not millennia. Blessings to all much love. I am human, happy, sad, strong, weak, satisfied or not. It is ok. I am human! 💕
I think that I have NPD but I'm just so scared and torn about the impairment of everything that I'm not sure which issue I have. Can someone with BPD love someone? I can't experience love (I only "love" people to get what I want and stave the anxiety away). I know it's a narcassistic thing but I don't know if it could be either one or maybe something else. I definitely have a feeling of hopelessness in getting better because it was only a few weeks ago I found out that I'm a narcassist perhaps, and it's constantly on my mind and affects every aspect of my life. I can't even tell if confidence is a good thing or narcassistic anymore. I don't really know what to do and I'm on my way to having my second nervous breakdown about it.
Wyatt Cerri A narcissist or rather someone with NPD would not care if they were narcissistic or not...Because to them it’s just ‘I do what I do’ To them, they are entitled to behave how they want & do not worry about it. Just be observant about yourself and be willing to try to get help and the answers will come... don’t give up.
Yes, people with BPD can and do experience real love. The often love without fault(and don’t usually love themselves), which is why they attract other toxic individuals. You could be self-aware NPD, which is very rare, or be co-morbid with BPD.
Same ego function deficits. The way i see them differ is fantasies of loss in bpd and fantasies of rejection and wining the person who supposedly rejected (real or imagined in vulnerable narcissts) and fantasies of ideal love and grandiosity wealth power in grandiose narcissists. The way narcs deal with abandonment is control same anxiety. And the mix seems so difficult.Both have cognitive dysfunctions. Emotional dysregulation. The borderline may attribute a trait or attribute to someone who doesnt have this trait and when they find this person who supposedly has a trait and the person supposedly screws up and those w bpd will devalue them.favorite person.
Thank you, Dr Fox. Your videos help me alot. I also like and appreciate your personality because it's easy to learn from you. I 'm so grateful for your kindness. And you are not condescending. 🙏💕
The vulnerable narcissist I know expect others to adapt to his needs and his point of view even if all others have the same opposite needs and point of view as to his. Even if he is alone versus 100 people, he really believes that all 100 people should do what he wants.
I dealt with someone displaying both. They'd vaccilate from controlling and leaving, or threatening, to then after crying and freaking out (as if I'd left- which I didn't). This person was like a bulldozer in my life. Impossible to please. Would dump me and need consolation. RUN if someone has these and isn't aware, or in therapy. Run. I have never had my heart so shattered, stepped on, and thrown in the trash b4. They were SO selfish and cruel. They literally have EVERYTHING a person could be blessed with and are so miserable.
Yes sir, Very interesting...but what about the "covert" version of the narcissistic spectrum? Those tend to have a very vulnerable "core" and demeanor, they tend a lot more to isolation and self destructive behaviours...I still couldn't find exhaustive material that could inform a differential diagnosis. It would be amazing if you could provide it. Thank you!!
Both are maladaptive. Both fear abandonment. The Borderline has intense emotions that are exciting to the emotionally dead (emotionally suppressed) Narcissist. The Narcissist can provide stability to the Borderline by tolerating the intensity/ abuse and staying in the dysfunctional relationship.
@@StreetRacerMX5 Borderlines do not have intense emotions, they experience bodily sensations of pain & pleasure, and their derivatives of fear & excitement. The anticipation of pain or the anticipation of pleasure. And narcissist also operate on this same level, the only difference is that narcissist is more stable. While the borderline is really unstable, bordering psychosis.
@@Nobody-Nowhere those two comments of yours were probably the dumbest and most off base thing about borderlines and narcissists ive seen in my life lol. Get a clue bro
It's hard to say that whether my ex girlfriend is borderline or narcissistic. She is a very ideal and high standard for what should be considered as a successful life. She works very hard for it, sometimes too hard to be healthy. Her attitudes towards me was constantly changing drastically. If I treat her well, or if I satisfy her needs, she d think that I am the best man in the world that she would never leave me. And she wants to spend her whole life with me. But whenever she's not happy, sometimes not even my fault. She d intentionally belittles and disrespects me in a way that none of my friends think that is acceptable. My opinions and my feelings were never respected and paid attention to, she made decisions for us and I couldn't express any disagreement because that will 100% lead to a huge fight. Sometimes I think that maybe she didn't love me so I accepted the breakup, However, she would always want me back, but never apologizes for anything she has done. We had some conversations and she said she has the very weird intention to verbally and emotionally hurt the people that she loves, including her boyfriend and her family members, that she didn't want to hurt us. Because of that, I gave her one chance after another, until I realized I have no self esteem and self love anymore in this relationship.
Thank you Dr. Diagnosed BPD girl here. Dated a narcissist for 10 horrific years from the ages of 16-26. To call it abusive is an extreme understatement. I'm 37 now and still suffer immensely with memories of the sick and twisted relationship I thought I deserved. I was diagnosed with PTSD later on and have been in therapy since. What I can't wrap my mind around is how my therapists refuse to address this issue. I was told that I wasn't mentally ready to dig into this topic and its incredibly frustrating. I've heard this from 2 different therapists now and actually left the 1st therapist because of this. I also wasn't seeing any progress and it became more like 2 friends bullshitting. My current therapist is wonderful and nice...but again, not addressing this debilitating problem. I'm wondering if I will EVER find someone who is willing to open the door to the past.... Ps...if anyone can give me some insight into why this is occurring, I'd greatly appreciate it Pps....I understand that having BPD makes me a "difficult" patient, but I can assure you, I am an open minded individual willing to listen, take my meds and follow guidelines to become a healthy person...
It's probably because the insight you have now would mean you would see things as they actually were if you had help to piece together the context of your traumatic memories. Opening one door can have a domino effect, and It might be soul-crushing and aggravating because you'd be going through EVERY traumatic experience all over again, making it feel like it is happening the present moment instead of just recalling the past. I know exactly what you mean with being frustrated, but your mind might never be ready to reopen those wounds, even if your heart is. Just trust your therapist, and accept that you might never be ready to fully confront your trauma. Sometimes confronting trauma does more damage than healing. But if you're anything like me, I know you won't stop obsessing over it until you have ALL the answers. Lol.
i just have to say if you haven't been told already lol your videos deff are doing what you hope just from me starting your videos my partner always states he's happy I found you cuz he sees how much these videos have helped me so they really are doing what your hoping a lot of grate info on this video ... i see even more now why I deff identify with BPD and why docs see it too ..... one statement you said in this video stands about a lot ..... that with BPD our lives revolve around others .... this has been one of the biggest issues in my life as I've done some pretty crazy things just to make sure the people I'm hanging out with stay and are not feeling like they are bad .... now that I've realized this is an issue its been hard to be social as I don't want to do that but I'm still lost as to what I truly want to do and who I truly want to hang out with .... really hard core content
Love you Dr.fox. My mom is a narc.an BPD. I am very sensitive an creative. I really believe that she is completely Evil.I realize She drains all my energy. An fill me with feelings of hate.i don't do Anything at all for her to scream an yell at me. She humiliates me every chance she gets. She has runined my life. Now I am stuck depending on her. I just can't ever win against her .I am exhausted all the time. Depressed. Help. How much are your sessions? I need help
Thank you for asking. I am not taking new clients at this time and I can only treat those in Texas, due to license regulations in Texas. I have a video on how to find a therapist that may help you. I wish you well.
You mother sounds like mine. I have learned to show no emotion around her. She will attempt to get me to engage in her drama/chaos via arguments. I ignore her. I dont look her in the eye. I dont start any conversations with her. It angers her that she cant get a rise in me. I just walk away.
If you go to www.psychologytoday.com there's a box to fill in your city name. Then, you will get a qualified referral to a Therapist near you. Best of luck, dear one. No one deserves to have their life force drained away. God gave it to you and its yours to keep.
4:26 is when he starts talking about the similarities and differences
Thanks - I hate unscripted waffle.
Thanks
Thank you
@@dreamdiction
If you hate unscripted waffle I wonder what feelings you have about your ex?
@@evian. Surprisingly, my ex was virtually mute, I was always trying to get her to talk, she would probably accuse me of 'unscripted waffle' but only because she was too stupid to know what I was talking about.
You’re so compassionate. You simply give information without judgement. Thank you!
@part 3 I’m sorry you’re upset but I’m not taking my comment down because theirs nothing wrong with it.
@@madisonmoon5346 exactly you don't need to. BPD doesn't make you an inherently bad person and feeling like a bad person does nothing for the pwBPD but make them feel worse.
Woooow, this is something I’ve feared in the back of my mind.. “what if I am a narcissist” usually when I do something pretty crap.
This was def insightful. Love these videos
SAME!! But then I’m like would I be asking this if I was? Wouldn’t I be thinking nothing could be wrong with me...? Idk I know my mom is a undiagnosed NPD especially when looking back on what memories I can about my childhood. The traits she has displayed are things I have never done.
A true narc thinks they are fine and everyone else is messed up. They dont feel guilty about they way they think or act. My birth giver is a poster child for narcissists.
@@phant0m0th_ If you ask other people or your therapist if you're narcissistic, you're not a narc.
Steven S that’s what I was trying to say...then I added about my mom saying she should seek therapy but she said no I have a problem.
A narcissist forces other people to develop narcissistic defenses which resemble NPD, this is how narcissism is contagious.
As a woman with Bpd traits, I do much better & am completely normal around healthy people. It's my fear of being controlled, by an abuser...whether male or female, that I become a different person & their switching triggers me to switch & react.
As a guy, I’m the same. I hate being controlled and it brings out the worst in me. I’m fine around normal people too
Same
I didn't realize until now, you nailed it!
As a woman diagnosed with BPD I agree! I'm the same way, healthy, sane, happy when around healthy people in healthy environments. When I'm in the opposite, toxic people, neegy vampires, users, and toxic environments I tend to like "switch" and I can feel the switch in personality too like a defense mechanism! I start to act out and I start drinking to try to cope! My boundaries have been up lately where I don't tolerate these people and environments anymore. I either cut them off or I leave those situations now, whereas as before I used to just "tolerate" and deal with it and try to suppress
I'm just like that also.
I have BPD and MDD, and my roommate has NPD. You are absolutely right about the entitlement, and how the person with BPD will be overly accommodating. It was not a good combination by any means and I'm moving out at the end of the month because I'll no longer have my generosity taken for granted.
People suck. 😅
This video gave me 2 things:
-RELIEF (I have BPD and don't want to be mistaken for narcissist)
-UNDERSTANDING (my narcissistic brother and mom)
I actually have 100% more sympathy for them after hearing Dr. Fox explain. This helps me move on easier in life.
I'm so glad this video was helpful for you. I wish you well.
I am on the BPD spectrum and I dated someone on the Covert Narcissism Spectrum. I blamed myself for things going wrong. Now I realise that it’s very common for Borderlines to date Narcissists.
I dont blame myself for anything anymore! I see right thru ppl...especially NPD!! IM SO MAD I TOOK CRAPP FOR SO LONG AND TOOK ALL THE GUILT😪
I'm recovered from BPD and married a community narcissist in my first marriage.
Now I'm about to filed for divorce from my second husband who is BPD and covert narcissist.
I went from being BPD to being a caretaker 🤦♀️ the covert thrived off my caretaking and bled me dry within 6 months!
Take care of yourself.
It's ok to be single.
It is better to take care of your own recovery alone if you need to ❤
Did your partner cov narc ever blamed himself and what for?
in the same boat.
what the hell this is kinda scary. My fiancé has BPD and i’m a covert narcissist. why do these personalities find each other so often?
totally informed, thanks dr. Daniel Fox, love how sweet and soft spoken you are-so soothing.
I feel like I'm in love with him ! Handsome too & seems gentle !
Thank you so much for dedicating your time to help people all over the world who have had trouble finding clarity with these topics. For a very long time I thought intense emotional pain and instability was just something everyone dealt with, and that because my emotions were breaking me down so much it meant that I was simply a weaker person then everyone else. Finding your videos has helped me to step back and really see what's going on in my mind and see that I can ask for help and maybe things will get better. Thank you
I know I have borderline personality disorder, but the fear of being wrongly diagnosed is always in the back of my head.What if I actually have a comorbid diagnosis, and am not getting the proper help I need. This video really helped me out, and was extremely insightful, thank you so much for sharing!!
Yeah I don't see borderlines' suicide attempts as a setup for a rescue. In part it's often thinking there is absolutely no other recourse to escape an excruciating current lifes' status and pain usually triggered by a recent event that would be painful to anyone. But everyone doesn't experience the erroneous sense that the despair is absolutely inescapable, forever and therefore intolerable...unless one wasn't alive. Illogical to even borderlines on a better day but continues to happen.
In a better moment, let alone a day!
This exactly. When I'm having SI and dissociate and melt into my spiral, I'm not thinking about anybody else, anything else but how to SAVE them and myself FROM myself. How the pain I cause hurts me as much as it hurts them and everyone would be better off with me gone. I dont want to be saved in those moments. I want to fucking die. It's embarassing and I largely deal with those emotions alone in seclusion. I tell my wife after I handle the emotions, but It is unbelievably embarassing that I go through this and the last thing I want to do is be rescued. I want to die. Lol.
And on good days, I know that suicide is not what I want, that I can be better, that this isn't the end of my life, living with BPD. It seems almost insane to me that I can feel that low and have that line of thinking when I have a 3 year old crawling all over me looking for horse rides. But sometimes, it just doesn't matter. The only thing that keeps me alive is the commitment I made to my kids to not be my parents.
Every time I've attempted suicide it was a rescue attempt. I was fed up but I wanted to be saved. I didn't want to die. Dr. Fox knows that BPD's do ffed up stuff and the rescue thing is very real!
I have BPD and I’m pretty sure my mum has NPD. I often wonder if my mum’s narcissistic tendencies is a part of what caused my BPD.
I'm in same situation. I think the answer is yes.
Your mum is probably BPD, you are just projecting on her.
Hads, I suspect the same with my mother. But don't bother diagnosis, important is we survive and lower expectations, set bondaries, go gray rock, seek help, maybe DBT? Maybe cut contact, at least for a while? Don't feed a narc mom.😜
nobody nowhere You don’t know what you’re talking about
They're both Cluster B
Wow this was so helpful and informative, I felt really understood at 9:48 when talking about feeling as though one will disappear if not at the centre of attention and needing to feel valued. Thank you for this insight! I always learn something new from you videos, this time I learnt a whole bunch of new things. Thank you ✨
Wow! You totally nailed my two daughters! One with BPD and the other with ND. Their father has ND and I would fall more into the catagory of the BPD. I definitely have some traits of BPD. I love listening to your videos. They are so helpful to get my head around all of this. It breaks my heart as well.
Stay strong Kelly!😘
You are an enabler!
Comforting and full of wisdom. BPD can be such a daunting diagnosis. I always tune in when I need a sense of security. Thank you so much. 🦋
My friend swings from both sides of this.... it's incredibly impossible to communicate with her when she's mad.
It would be useful to hear more about what it looks like when one person has both NPD and BPD. My mother was diagnosed as BPD, but I believe she also had strong narcissistic traits (but without the grandiosity). So she had extreme emotional instability, but she also demanded that I as the golden child make her the center of my life. And she used every form of deception, manipulation, and emotional blackmail she could think of to force me to comply.
Bpds can have narcissistic traits due to cluster B overlap. Having narcissistic traits does not mean you have NPD.
I wish there was videos like this for me back then. The first person I ever came close to marry had both of these disorders and it really put my brain through the mill. We were together for 5 years and it took me around 5 years to repair from the trauma bonding. I just honestly feel bad for her at this point because I have no idea if she is capable of doing the self reflection to have a better life. She's been through quite a bit of relationships since we split, and I heard she was meaner to each one. 😑 Sigh, the things I would tell my younger self to watch out for.
In the past, it seemed my BPD was fueled by alcohol! Life is so much better without alcohol, and after awhile one can see themselves and the world a whole lot clearer. It took me many years to figure out what was wrong with me because I used alcohol to “medicate”myself . Alcohol, clear thinking, and good decision making, don’t mix. And more than anything you have to have a clear mind to heal wholly.
Alcohol causes a release of the neurotransmitter Gabba...which induces calm. However, as alcohol use increases and more Gabba released, the brain releases more of the excitatory neurotransmitter glutamate. The alcohol is first soothing than increased anxiety follows...as well as the depressive after effects and regrets that happen due to the alcohol use.
Alcohol definitely was problematic for me too. So harmful...and I was just looking for an escape from the overwhelming anxiety😬
I've found good sleep, no alcohol, meditation, journaling, yoga with Adriene, routine...all help so much.
I wish you continued improvement, connection and peace 💛💫
I was thinking that most PD's are from self.
@@mikeballard8404 that is a very unclear assertion. Can you further explain?
Did you feel you were able to open up more to a partner emotionally when you drank? But the next day ruminate and regret being impulsive, and what you might have spilled to them? My ex did this. Still not sure what disorder/s she had though.
I have observed that many people with Cluster B disorders self medicate with alcohol. Kudos to you for recognizing this and getting away from it.
Thank you so much for making these videos. I have been feeling really lost lately. Having a little more understanding about bpd has been so helpful
This makes so much sense now. My mother was a Narcissist and I'm a BPD.
Dr. Fox, would you say it is common to find BPDs raised by narcissistic parents?
you have one here
BPD is usually the outcome of narcissistic parenting.
True for me
Yes! My parents were definitely NPD!!
As well as verbally, physically, and emotionally abusive. Never cared at all about how their actions affected their children.
i am one here.
Thank you Dr Fox for your channel and all the information, this was the most helpful and properly informative video i saw regarding the differences and similarities between NPD and BPD
Ive had all traits of bpd at several points but ive found through treatment and learning better coping mechanisms i can sometimes lose certain traits for extended periods of time, ive heard people say they used to be the same and now have 4 or less traits and have been that way for a year or longer
Its helpful to me watching these videos seeing you be supportive and informative, i hope people living with individuals with mental health strugles watch your videos as much as i have today
Thank you for explaining what "Cluster B" actually means. I have watched tons of videos and read books on NPD, and have heard the term, but never heard/saw it defined.
I would hit the “like” button on this video simply for the fact that you did not say, “I love you” at the end of it, as some channel hosts do (🤮). That said, I will also be “liking” it because it’s a helpful video. Thank you.
Wow, this has made it clear to me I have met a NDP/BPD comorbid personality. This has been very interesting. Thank you!
Regardless of the labels, they can be very damaging behaviours. I was married for several years to someone with personality disorders. It was almost impossible to ever please him, and he got rather aggressive and at times extremely violent. I still love him, but I refuse to be treated so poorly every day. I truly hope that he gets help. I was seeing dr for 3 years prior to our breakup, and the dr explained to me that its like playing a poker machine with your emotions. You pour in alot but you dont ever get much back . Sad for my ex that he ended up losing everything, I think every day how he will not seek help. I wish he would, I would stay then.
I found this video informative but was hoping to hear more about how someone co-morbid would present. Knowing the differences between the two disorders I find it hard to discern how someone could have both, or how that would manifest. Could you do a video on this please. Thanks.
I have been in an on and off relationship with a man for 2 yrs. I have been confused for awhile because he had traits of NPD BUT he has some of BPD BUT I always leaned towards BPD because he can be empathic, he HAS cried real tears and I have seen pain in his face. Either way it has been very difficult to walk away from a person who didn't conciously choose to be this way. I have learned things that triggers his behavior.
This certainly sounds like a challenging relationship. You may want to explore it more with a mental health provider. I wish you all the best.
I am in a relationship that is similar to this... it literally makes me break down every time I think about leaving or try to leave. I feel so guilty because it's not my partners choice, frequently they don't even seem to know they're doing it. I keep trying to talk them into going to therapy regularly to manage some of the behaviors, not much luck to this point with that though. I hope you've been able to make some headway in yours.
I have a friend who unfortunately has got into a lot of trouble with the law. His personality seems to swing between NPD traits and BPD traits. On the one hand, he's absolutely desperate for validation, attention and reassurance. He will go to extreme lengths to "befriend" anybody and everybody to get it, no matter how desperate it makes him seem. But once he's there, his behaviour can be very different. He can treat people with contempt if they're not giving him what they want, and can be very smug, arrogant and a terrible show off. He often devalues / discards anyone who isn't giving him what he wants. Yet in some of his other friendships, it's very different. He will allow them to walk all over him, treat him terribly, but he can also do the same to them behind their backs (lots of sleeping with their partners behind their backs etc).
Narcissists also idealize and devalue people in a similar fashion to BPD. The difference is the intent.
An ex best friend of mine was like this. I believe this is what the disorders look like if they co-occur or present as covert narcissism.
I love the way you explain things. You are so professional 👍🏼👍🏼
you give me such comfort. im waiting for my dbt appointment and this is so hard... thank you for being here
You are so welcome!
I'm very curious, I've been having a hard time finding any information on what a comorbid narcissist, borderline person would look like and I'm wondering if you happen to know. I found one study looking at this, and considering how common it's suggested in several studies, I would believe that it would be studied more in depth, however, I have found very little on it. I'm curious how it might be different from just narcissism or just borderline, what traits from each would show up in the comorbidity or would it be a bizarre mixture of traits that looks just different enough from how they usually appear in borderline and narcissism?
My mother was both. Npd and bpd.
Both of them combined looked like schizoaffective personality disorder.
You rarely see those and is extremely hard to diagnose such patients.
When she was attacking - sne acted as narcissist.
When she crawled in the corner protecting herself - she was borderline.
And she completely changed, as she was anoher person
Scary shit.
My mother killed herself when I exposed her sadism btw
I know someone that seems to be a severe Covert narcissist, with a 2-year-old. She shows real feelings for him as long as he fits into her mood (not saying she is not abusive). She displays real sympathy.
Let me give an example; when the two-year-old gets hurt she will show sympathy for him, but always blame herself or someone else for the incident.
Is she really displaying real sympathy or is it just an act?
Can this be a mix between Covert Narcissism and Borderline Personality Disorder (if it is even possible)?
Would love to hear if you receive answer to this. My wife has borderline and narcissist traits, and I suspect more than enough to be diagnosed with either BPD, NPD or both, but for a lack of willingness to seek help or believe anything is wrong. I haven't accused her of having either of these for the record, but was trying to get her to seek help for anxiety or depression to get her foot in the door. One thing that keeps me asking myself questions though, is what seems to be genuine affection for our young children. Don't get me wrong, she can be quite cutting if they do not do what she wants, but she does seem to genuinely care and fear for them. I guess I will know better as they grow up and make life choices which differ from her desires.
I am curious about this as well. I know someone with a BPD diagnosis, but she has this whole public persona is super NFP So much so in fact that the way she talks to people and the way she comes off with her charisma is identical to my ex that has NDP. She certainly has BPD traits, but she also uses people for her own gains as though every relationship in her life is there for the sole purpose of serving her. She even nicknames all of her friends and even her clients so that she can make them her own. Strange.
weird ive just seen this comment as I swear I have both
I love your videos and how dead on they are, not offensive or ignorant in any way, just feels nice to know there is someone out there that gets it
I wish we still lived in Houston so our son could have seen you! Your videos are so informative and helpful.
Thank you! The way you broke things down and explained everything was beyond helpful! One of the better videos I've seen on the topic hands down! 😊
Yeah this guy is really clear. 'Esoteric Doll' is a great handle :)
Lack of insight isn't all that keeps borderlines stuck. The other reasons are discounted.
Please! Please could you go over BPD comparisons with specifically the Covert Narcissism area of NPD? I find there may be even more overlap over these specific combinations. Perhaps even more specifically the BPD “subtypes”: discouraged and self destructive? (I know they may not be legit used subtypes and we maybe shouldn’t go by these as labels but I found using them possibly helpful in explaining what I’d like to learn about when contrasting more specific mindsets and behaviors of BPD with NPD.)
I recently viewed the video you made about Covert Narcissism and now have landed here and I feel there could be even more of an overlap or interaction (in traits or even in having a dual diagnosis?) with That particular “kind” of NPD and the ways in which you’ve described BPD here? That video has been so helpful in understanding NPD a bit more beyond just what I’ve heard through the grapevine! So thank you so much! This video is where I came immediately after and I was wondering if we were to compare that video’s kind of narcissism and BPD would it change any of the comparisons made here? (Sorry if this is a lot to answer to!)
This is the breakdown and explanation Ive been looking for. I suspected my partner was Narcissistic because of certain behaviours but they never truly fit into the categories .....but Borderline fits like a glove. Thank you.
I'm so glad this video was helpful for you. I wish you well.
I wish I could have people understand me and understand my needs and can meet them without me having to explain and let them know what i need. I feel like not only will I burden them, but I will also feel uncomfortable seeing them try and have them know what my triggers are. I can never win 😔
Oof! That portion about narcissistic injuries really hit home.
The tattoo I use as my profile picture is representative of the pain I felt from being ‘stabbed in the back’ via my ex’s online infidelity.
“How could you have done this TO ME?! After everything I have done for you - after all the the efforts I have made, you decided to repay ME by breaking MY trust?!” Despite her repeatedly expressing that it had nothing to do with me, I was left feeling incredibly unworthy, ugly, and inadequate. Rationally, I understood that her behaviors weren’t caused by me (I knew from the beginning that she had a long history of these behaviors); however, I felt completely defeated that “I put so much effort into the relationship for nothing” and came to the conclusion that I couldn’t fulfill her (or anyone). I made it about me. Yikes.
I'm so glad it was helpful. I wish you well.
Living with Cluster B traits is HELL
I just discovered your channel and I am pleasantly surprised! I subscribed and looking forward to learn from you🎉
Bpd= fear of abandonment
Npd= fear of no fuel
Right on
Thank you for your acknowledgement of potential abuse history and suicidality in NPD. There is a misconception that abuse history is uncommon for narcissists and that suicidality and NPD are somehow mutually exclusive; also that NPD does not cause harm to the disordered person themselves.
I also have a lot of appreciation for your frank and compassionate explanations. You don't sugarcoat, but you take steps to be conscientious of the feelings of your listeners including people who may have these disorders. It has the effect of creating a more welcoming listening environment and I expect often, a more comfortable and receptive listener.
First I would like to say how much I appreciate you Dr. Fox, how much your videos have been helping me over the last few weeks. Also, how huge it is for me and probably people like me, that you approach bpd with such understanding, compassion, and respect were it’s typically so misunderstood and stigmatized even by a lot of professionals.
With that said I am a bit thrown off on the topic of comorbity between bpd and npd and hope I can get an actual response to clarify 😂
From my research, experience and understanding of the two disorders, I can see how a person might have some traits of the opposite disorder. But I do not see how the two disorders in their entirety could coexist.
Let me explain- while both might look similar from the outside with episodes of rage, some degree of splitting, idealize/devalue cycle, rocky relationships... as you mentioned these things are motivated by completely different factors. Npd idealize (love bomb)/devalue (abuse), and of course the final phase discard as a way of obtaining and extracting sufficient supply and as means of manipulation and control. Bpd idealize the people that they care about and see them as all good and light, then split to devaluation when triggered by something the person has said or done that hurt them and see them as all bad and cruel. Then upon them doing something nice they are idealized and all good again....
Npd rage when they feel criticized, controlled, or exposed. Bpd rage because they are overly sensitive and overwhelmed by emotion or in a frantic reaction to some real or perceived abandonment. Etc.
However I think they’d have to be mutually exclusive because of some of the main characteristics of each disorder... npd have few and very shallow, superficial emotions based purely on their own desires and false self image. They act based on their own logic. Things they do and say are very calculated and always meant to further whatever their agenda may be even if it’s not obvious.Bpd experience an abundance of extremely deep and intense emotions. They react quickly and usually inappropriately to situations based on these emotions and find it very difficult to control and over power the emotions logically.
But most importantly, npd naturally lack empathy. They find it difficult or impossible to consider someone else’s point of view if it opposes theirs and don’t feel bad for causing someone pain if it was a result of getting what they wanted at the time. Bpd has a significant capacity for empathy. Sometimes having a tendency to put others feelings even above their own and feel extremely guilty and remorseful if they hurt others.
These two things specifically are so opposing on a fundamental level and are such significant defining characteristics of each disorder I can’t see how they could coexist.
perhaps because it is a continuum between two extremes and in the middle features overlap
Dr Fox, please do a video on borderline pd and addiction/compulsions and eating disorders, 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
I plan to do an addiction and BPd video in the future. Thanks
@@DrDanielFox 🙏🙏
Thank you for your research, insight, and education. I do want to point out one thing seeing as I have borderline personality disorder (mother narcissistic borderline), And I want to zero attention and zero eyes on me. That’s also why I did not have a wedding. I just feel constantly judged, everything I do is wrong etc. I know that’s extreme paranoia as well, but I just wanted to put it out there that some borderlines do not want any attention on them.
You’re a wonderful teacher. You help me understand myself better which gives me hope.
I'm pretty certain I have BPD, but I don't meet any of the requirements of NPD. If anything, I have a very low self esteem and feel like no body likes or understands me. I definitely never feel like I'm smarter or more powerful than others. In fact, quite the opposite.
You can have BPD without NPD. I understand the loneliness, it's common in those with BPD, and those with traits and those without it.
Well narcissm has variations with the most common being Overt and Covert.
Overts are the stereotypical narcissist. Cocky, arrogant, entitled. While coverts are the exact opposite. Covert NPD is often referred to as "vulnerable narcissm" they are insecure, loners, have low-self esteem.
BPD and Covert NPD have many similarties, often to the point they are indistinguishable.
Been sucked into the whirlpool after shutting down when not feeling safe or sure of myself. Hospitalization x 2 with increasing medications and more diagnosis. The medical, counseling and psych med providers do not communicate well with one another, and do not consider differences between bipolar and borderline/ type B disorders. It appears to be easier to prescribe meds and see what happens, than to figure out what is going on, and then consider appropriate treatments. Meds may help, but only after correct diagnosis. So frustrating. Thank you for helping to clarify differences, and providing a guide to communicate clearly my conscerns.
+L J this is a constant issue within the field and I’m sorry you’re going through it. Stay strong and seek a professional you trust to help you through the process.
Thank you for your insights. Can you adress BPD and eating disorders as a means of coping with the disorder.
Thank you - this video is so insightful. I seem to attract alot of narcissist because i am alone and so I am a workaholic who is co-dependent And than when I am alone- I am BPD. So I found this video to be spot on and insightful .
Hello Dr. Fox
I think my mom may suffer with NPD. I have BPD and Bipolar; and suffered severe neglect and abuse from my father as a child and have no contact with him anymore.
But I’ve also struggled with my mother, who I love very much, and recently started considering that she has NPD.
It’s hard to get unbiased, and especially not attacking, information on NPD, how to help someone with NPD, etc.
I do believe she did a lot of things wrong. I know from her own admission that she doesn’t feel empathy in the same way as other people, and it scares her. But she’s not a bad person.
Anyone know of wanting to escape painful or perceived painful circumstances is a borderline thing? It’s usually triggered in me realizing something isn’t what I want in life (that what I want is elsewhere), then this grey depressing veil comes over me making me hate my life and so many things in it. Feeling like a victim/at fault for everything.
I know this isn’t the truth but it’s hard to see at times, and unpredictable when this drastic change in perception occurs
1-2% 👀 One look at social media & I can clearly see it’s a hell of a lot more than that. Very good analysis otherwise, as a BDP with 38 years experience living with NPDs you broke down the similarities & differences brilliantly. Although I didn’t hear you mention empathy, BPDs tend to have it & can understand the consequences of their actions. NPDs don’t in my opinion.
He mentioned that a lot of people have traits without being full-blown. However, you see their more extreme behaviour online and it may seem that they are full-blown, when in normal life they may not act out like that at all (or certainly not as much). Secondly full-blown types are probably going to be more active and visible online and therefore give a false impression of how common they are in real life. Remember these disorders can have a powerful and potentially highly toxic relationship with social media.
"Although I didn’t hear you mention empathy, BPDs tend to have it & can understand the consequences of their actions."
Wrong.
I agree. I think someone with BPD will look very much narcissistic when in the middle of a trigger, fixated on whatever is causing pain at the moment. Fixated on their own suffering and forgetting (or not being capable at the time) or fully realizing the other persons suffering, but after they act or speak impulsively will actually feel a deep sense of remorse and shame for how they acted (which actually perpetuates their feeling that they are inherently a bad or flawed person). Whereas someone with NPD can’t see how they effect others at all. That would mean that they would have to be capable of perceiving themselves as flawed and that inherently is impossible for them (which is why they are unable to see their true self but only the false self/masks that they ware).
Hmmm yes and no. I think a bpd can have sympathy somewhat but, I'm not sure, if they can every truly empathize b/c that would require relating to others and w/o a true sense of self it is impossible to put urself in their shoes. Neither feel true empathy b/c the borderlines view of ppl including themselves is always shifting and the npd has a false idealized sense of self. BPDs do have somewhat more of a heart than NPDs, and they may not wish to hurt ppl even if they do w/ all their testing to see if the person will leave, pushing and pulling or w/e, where as the NPD knows they hurt ppl, and they do it crueley w/ the intention of doing so in order to control, and manipulate, and often they tend to be somewhat psychopathic, where as the bpd usually knows not what they do, and just does it to avoid feeling abandoned, or to test others to see if they'll abandon them. The NPD is more aware in the moment and ill intended, the BPD is more instinctively always trying to avoid pain and later may regret it when they see the pain they caused. The NPD is more the abuser type who consciously abuses b/c they want domination, superiority and control, the BPD is more of the self-harmer, or the one who gets abusive only out of fear unaware they're being abusive. Don't let the NPD fool u. They know they hurt u and are completely aware of their actions. They're just abusive and manipulative trying to play dumb so u won't leave (whether they admit it or not). Both are very insecure even if the NPD hides it even from themselves as a facade but, the borderline does have a heart beneath it all where as the narc is heartless.
I believe my mother is undiagnosed NPD. I asked around and other people with NPD moms sounded EXACTLY like my mom. As well as talking to people with their experiences growing up and what that looked like. There were so many similarities with the disorder and how they react to the situation. it was more than just a normal person being a narcissist.
That is great video, but what about those with comorbid BPD and NPD, can you, please, make a video about that? exuse my english
Very helpful and informative. Much appreciated. 🦋
Saw your diploma from Texas Tech. Saw NCAA championship game against Virginia other day. I feel your pain. I graduated from UNC. I also watched the Carolina-Villanova game where Carolina got beaten on last second shot from half court.
As someone with bpd in the past whenever I had resorted to self harm or suicide attempt it was never fueled by a want to be rescued, it was always fueled by the feeling of being locked in a jar and there being only one way out
I have BPD. What causes it? My mother was a narcissist and my father was an alcoholic/sex addict. Mom was very invalidating of me and my emotions. She never said she loved me and often invalidated my perceptions. While I felt my father loved me to the best of his ability I did not feel my mother loved me and perhaps didn't like me. Would this be a contributing factor?
+Cathi Christian it absolutely can be.
@@DrDanielFox Thank you I appreciate your responses.
I was able to mostly overcome my BPD when I looked back at my mother as a human who struggled in her own ways at the time, and that she did love me even though she didn’t say it, and I humanized her and forgave her, that was huge in my journey to recovery. I must mention though that she left my narcissistic father and then she changed a lot and now we have a much better relationship, so that also probably helped me to recover.
Invalidated feelings and perception as a child is one of the biggest causes of BPD, actually.
So good. Thank you!!
I feel educated and empowered
Subbed
Great video that has helped me differentiate between the two. Thanks Doc👍
can you have BPD and just can't function? almost at all? can't go to work or do simple tasks? is it BPD depression or more than that?
Cagedunicorns Good question? This happened to me too, I got diagnosed as depressed by my GP 🙄 but I think it was the BPD/CPTSD.
@cagedunicorns ...same problem
Cagedunicorns, Yes, BPD alone can be debilitating as you describe, and even more so if you also have major depression and/or other diagnoses. Please hang in and keep watching these and other supportive videos.
I struggle a lot with that as well due to my bpd
That sounds like me. Between my mental and physical health issues, I'm currently not able to work. The embarrassment of this causes me to isolate from others, whenever I desire to connect. It's hellish.
Great Breakdown & Thanks!
Always great videos!
Thank you for your clear and detailed explanations in your videos. I am grateful that you are interested in helping us with PDs when so many other specialists are not.
Thank you,clears up the fact I am definitely targeted by a narcissist. I am unsure what I'm dealing with in another neighbour who appeared to want to come for coffee. Seemed very friendly and told me the same narcissist had tried to lose them their rental home 3 times.Then they asked if I could lend them some money.They seemed desperate so I did.A month went by and another request and this time it was small amount. On day they repaid,they asked for a large amount.Friends don't treat you like that and I said no.Now they contact to ask for compensation for my pet attacking one of their fish,no photo,no confirmation that it was mine. 5 others go in their garden because they leave cat food outside.I said no proof,no money.They have now teamed up with the narcissist who is urging them to further action again st my pet,to the point where I have had to sign her over to a place of safety because I cannot provide that for her.It was soul destroying to have to do that because of the narcissist seeking revenge and the other family trying to get money by whatever means.For the 2 enemies to join together, does this mean the 2nd family have a personality disorder as well? I feel as if their is no one normal around me some days.
My new favorite YT channel! I really am hopeful that I will be able to get well thanks to your vids and Im finally back getting treatment from a new therapist. But as alot of yall know BPD symptoms can flair up outta nowhere even when your chillin in a good mood. And I've just gotten to a point where all my baggage is seeping into every area of my life and im fighting so hard to push it away and its time to try something new. This is the first time ever that im willing to do whatever it takes. It broke my heart when my fiance and kids mom left me, and married the first guy she met after me and started a new family of their own. Cos deep down i felt in my heart this amazing relationship was eventually going end. Then it did and kinda reinforced my belief. Plus my dad had it and my parents didnt last. Ever since we broke up Ive felt like being able to get married and start a family of my own was never going to happen cos my relationships don't last long and typically don't end well. But I am hopeful for the future Im not giving up. People with BPD deserve happiness and I think (or at least i hope lol) are capable of starting families and staying married for the long haul. Hate to say it but i kinda don't believe in marriage. I want to so bad though
I am a Human. With many disorders, depends on the doc. I am a human.
I am alive. I am surviving. I am free. I am healthy. I am satisfied with my life. I am alone. I am a mother, grandmother, sister and friend.
I am free of labels now. I have had so many it makes me realize that mental health is the ABNORMAL…AND has been for decades if not millennia.
Blessings to all much love.
I am human, happy, sad, strong, weak, satisfied or not. It is ok. I am human! 💕
I think that I have NPD but I'm just so scared and torn about the impairment of everything that I'm not sure which issue I have. Can someone with BPD love someone? I can't experience love (I only "love" people to get what I want and stave the anxiety away). I know it's a narcassistic thing but I don't know if it could be either one or maybe something else. I definitely have a feeling of hopelessness in getting better because it was only a few weeks ago I found out that I'm a narcassist perhaps, and it's constantly on my mind and affects every aspect of my life. I can't even tell if confidence is a good thing or narcassistic anymore. I don't really know what to do and I'm on my way to having my second nervous breakdown about it.
Wyatt Cerri A narcissist or rather someone with NPD would not care if they were narcissistic or not...Because to them it’s just ‘I do what I do’ To them, they are entitled to behave how they want & do not worry about it. Just be observant about yourself and be willing to try to get help and the answers will come... don’t give up.
Yes, people with BPD can and do experience real love. The often love without fault(and don’t usually love themselves), which is why they attract other toxic individuals. You could be self-aware NPD, which is very rare, or be co-morbid with BPD.
Same ego function deficits. The way i see them differ is fantasies of loss in bpd and fantasies of rejection and wining the person who supposedly rejected (real or imagined in vulnerable narcissts) and fantasies of ideal love and grandiosity wealth power in grandiose narcissists. The way narcs deal with abandonment is control same anxiety. And the mix seems so difficult.Both have cognitive dysfunctions. Emotional dysregulation. The borderline may attribute a trait or attribute to someone who doesnt have this trait and when they find this person who supposedly has a trait and the person supposedly screws up and those w bpd will devalue them.favorite person.
Results of BPD: comorbidly obese from binge drinking,
Thank you so much. Your videos have helped me really a lot. It's so validating to hear you describe PDs.
You really are and expert on bpd....tks for your videos
Other differences between BPD and NPD- BPD has empathy and loves others, NPD doesn't have empathy and claims others in disguise of love.
Thank you 😊 great information and amazing voice . Have been binge watching your videos. There is so much to learn and understand.
Great video, I don't think anyone else has covered this yet. Very helpful
Thank you, Dr Fox. Your videos help me alot. I also like and appreciate your personality because it's easy to learn from you. I 'm so grateful for your kindness. And you are not condescending. 🙏💕
You are very welcome! Be well.
Thank you Dr. Daniel for taking the time to educate. I appreciate that.
The vulnerable narcissist I know expect others to adapt to his needs and his point of view even if all others have the same opposite needs and point of view as to his. Even if he is alone versus 100 people, he really believes that all 100 people should do what he wants.
I dealt with someone displaying both. They'd vaccilate from controlling and leaving, or threatening, to then after crying and freaking out (as if I'd left- which I didn't). This person was like a bulldozer in my life. Impossible to please. Would dump me and need consolation. RUN if someone has these and isn't aware, or in therapy. Run. I have never had my heart so shattered, stepped on, and thrown in the trash b4. They were SO selfish and cruel. They literally have EVERYTHING a person could be blessed with and are so miserable.
This is one of the best videos on these disorders.
Thank you and I’m glad that you found it helpful. Take care.
Yes sir, Very interesting...but what about the "covert" version of the narcissistic spectrum? Those tend to have a very vulnerable "core" and demeanor, they tend a lot more to isolation and self destructive behaviours...I still couldn't find exhaustive material that could inform a differential diagnosis. It would be amazing if you could provide it. Thank you!!
I really would like to know the ratio of NPD/BPD couples. Why do those pathologies often attract one another?
Their need to please and seek approval is like a kid in candy story for insecure narc
Both are maladaptive. Both fear abandonment. The Borderline has intense emotions that are exciting to the emotionally dead (emotionally suppressed) Narcissist. The Narcissist can provide stability to the Borderline by tolerating the intensity/ abuse and staying in the dysfunctional relationship.
@@sunshineleo24 narcs also have a need to please & seek approval... thats basically what narcissism is.
@@StreetRacerMX5 Borderlines do not have intense emotions, they experience bodily sensations of pain & pleasure, and their derivatives of fear & excitement. The anticipation of pain or the anticipation of pleasure. And narcissist also operate on this same level, the only difference is that narcissist is more stable. While the borderline is really unstable, bordering psychosis.
@@Nobody-Nowhere those two comments of yours were probably the dumbest and most off base thing about borderlines and narcissists ive seen in my life lol. Get a clue bro
It's hard to say that whether my ex girlfriend is borderline or narcissistic. She is a very ideal and high standard for what should be considered as a successful life. She works very hard for it, sometimes too hard to be healthy. Her attitudes towards me was constantly changing drastically. If I treat her well, or if I satisfy her needs, she d think that I am the best man in the world that she would never leave me. And she wants to spend her whole life with me. But whenever she's not happy, sometimes not even my fault. She d intentionally belittles and disrespects me in a way that none of my friends think that is acceptable. My opinions and my feelings were never respected and paid attention to, she made decisions for us and I couldn't express any disagreement because that will 100% lead to a huge fight. Sometimes I think that maybe she didn't love me so I accepted the breakup, However, she would always want me back, but never apologizes for anything she has done. We had some conversations and she said she has the very weird intention to verbally and emotionally hurt the people that she loves, including her boyfriend and her family members, that she didn't want to hurt us. Because of that, I gave her one chance after another, until I realized I have no self esteem and self love anymore in this relationship.
Omg.... this sounds like my ex that I co parent with. It's like ... I hate you, don't leave me!!
I wanted to add that BPD's are more self aware & are able to self reflect unlike The Narcissists.
That was excellent !!! Really clarified some things for me... Thsnk you !!!
Please do a video on Quiet BPD!
why is my favorite part the crump music in the intro!! lol
Thank you very much, it was very clear and i needed to understand it.
You are my new favorite person on TH-cam Dr Fox!
Yesss! He's awesome
Excelent !!! Very clear and well developed subject!!! I will help me a lot with my patients!! I Appreciate!!
Very enlightening!
Thank you Dr. Diagnosed BPD girl here. Dated a narcissist for 10 horrific years from the ages of 16-26. To call it abusive is an extreme understatement. I'm 37 now and still suffer immensely with memories of the sick and twisted relationship I thought I deserved. I was diagnosed with PTSD later on and have been in therapy since. What I can't wrap my mind around is how my therapists refuse to address this issue. I was told that I wasn't mentally ready to dig into this topic and its incredibly frustrating. I've heard this from 2 different therapists now and actually left the 1st therapist because of this. I also wasn't seeing any progress and it became more like 2 friends bullshitting. My current therapist is wonderful and nice...but again, not addressing this debilitating problem. I'm wondering if I will EVER find someone who is willing to open the door to the past....
Ps...if anyone can give me some insight into why this is occurring, I'd greatly appreciate it
Pps....I understand that having BPD makes me a "difficult" patient, but I can assure you, I am an open minded individual willing to listen, take my meds and follow guidelines to become a healthy person...
It's probably because the insight you have now would mean you would see things as they actually were if you had help to piece together the context of your traumatic memories. Opening one door can have a domino effect, and It might be soul-crushing and aggravating because you'd be going through EVERY traumatic experience all over again, making it feel like it is happening the present moment instead of just recalling the past. I know exactly what you mean with being frustrated, but your mind might never be ready to reopen those wounds, even if your heart is. Just trust your therapist, and accept that you might never be ready to fully confront your trauma. Sometimes confronting trauma does more damage than healing. But if you're anything like me, I know you won't stop obsessing over it until you have ALL the answers. Lol.
i just have to say if you haven't been told already lol your videos deff are doing what you hope just from me starting your videos my partner always states he's happy I found you cuz he sees how much these videos have helped me so they really are doing what your hoping a lot of grate info on this video ... i see even more now why I deff identify with BPD and why docs see it too ..... one statement you said in this video stands about a lot ..... that with BPD our lives revolve around others .... this has been one of the biggest issues in my life as I've done some pretty crazy things just to make sure the people I'm hanging out with stay and are not feeling like they are bad .... now that I've realized this is an issue its been hard to be social as I don't want to do that but I'm still lost as to what I truly want to do and who I truly want to hang out with .... really hard core content
Love you Dr.fox.
My mom is a narc.an BPD.
I am very sensitive an creative.
I really believe that she is completely Evil.I realize
She drains all my energy.
An fill me with feelings of hate.i don't do Anything at all for her to scream an yell at me.
She humiliates me every chance she gets.
She has runined my life.
Now I am stuck depending on her.
I just can't ever win against her .I am exhausted all the time.
Depressed.
Help.
How much are your sessions?
I need help
Thank you for asking. I am not taking new clients at this time and I can only treat those in Texas, due to license regulations in Texas. I have a video on how to find a therapist that may help you. I wish you well.
You mother sounds like mine. I have learned to show no emotion around her. She will attempt to get me to engage in her drama/chaos via arguments. I ignore her. I dont look her in the eye. I dont start any conversations with her. It angers her that she cant get a rise in me. I just walk away.
If you go to www.psychologytoday.com there's a box to fill in your city name. Then, you will get a qualified referral to a Therapist near you. Best of luck, dear one. No one deserves to have their life force drained away. God gave it to you and its yours to keep.
Good video thanks for sharing your knowledge with us