Baby Boomers Speak Out About Vietnam In 1969
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ก.ย. 2024
- This is a portion of a TV show presented in 1969 where a well-known journalist visited Charlottesville Virginia. It was a time when America was divided, just about 50-50, on whether the Vietnam War was a just war or an unjust war. I was one of the cameramen recording this documentary and collected it as part of the archive I built to produce my 6 part 1991 PBS television series, Making Sense Of The Sixties. The divide was extreme and it seemed as though few could cross the partisan divide and agree on just about anything.
Props to that teacher letting his students speak freely and express themselves.
Agree, and he didn't beat anybody down, regardless their opinion. As far as we saw, he remained (at least in that classroom) neutral, not imposing his own opinion.
Seriously impressive and something I wish was more prevalent today. The amount of times I've been indirectly shut-up by professors is ridiculous. They have the brains to get a PhD but not the balls to hear someone say "I disagree" and it's just pathetic.
@@keeptrying5962 Despite it being easier today for people to use a banner of individuality to break away from accepted
norms the country had more effective tools to use free thought then, because they had a strong baseline to operate from.
Most kids were still being taught at least one required course in civics and learned the basics of how government
is supposed to work and the importance of respecting and accepting the rights and duties of citizenship.
These people could see the contradiction between how the government is supposed to operate and how
those who were holding the political high ground were actually putting it into practice.
That may be part of the problem today They don’t get to express themselves especially the children who struggle in a classroom setting.
I agree. I never took a civics class, but my younger sisters did, and it was not the same. The teacher took off points and degraded them for certain opinions, and when assigned projects that required research, banned many topics.
As a senior high school student in 1969 I’ll never forget an incident during an assembly when a USMC officer was brought in to speak to us about the validity and importance of the war. He started strong but halfway through his voice started to drift off, then quiver and then he simply stopped. We had no idea what was happening, then he began to sob. Both teachers and students were stunned as the principal, who had recruited him to speak to us to support the war effort, quietly helped the officer off the stage. The assembly seemed to collapse under the weight of its own mission then we also exited in silence. I still wonder, as he looked at the students assembled before him, what he saw and what made him break down.
future soldiers.
And to add onto what the other two said, I suspect he saw half of them dead because of his pro war speech.
@@sebanimega4189 agreed
came to his senses and realised he was talking shit and had a rush of guilt he was on the evil side in this war, even worse realised he was a propaganda machine being used to convince others innocence to be lead to the slaughter to slaughter and be slaughtered
@@sprintershepherd4359 agreed. I think it's important to remember these were proxy wars that were waged with the Soviets. We wanted to beat the Soviets out of any sphere of influence.
Too many good young men lost their lives due to the bad decisions of old men who were able to live out their own lives.
I would explain this but it requires an ungodly amount of tinfoil....
Phil Ochs the folk singer said "It's always the old who lead us to the war; always the young to fall. Look at all we've won with a Sabre and a gun; tell me is it worth it all? 🎶"
Ran he never said there wasn’t....
"People die sometimes."
Plato said that only the dead have seen the end of war. During the Vietnam war, there was a button that said "Old soldiers never die, only young ones." Fortune passes everywhere.
"Old men start wars younger men fight them" we should add "rich men start wars, poor men die in them"
Lmao plenty of wealthy people have fought wars 🤦♂️🤦♂️
@@mikexxxmilly wealthy people usually have either the option to buy themselves out of conscription or they were traditionally appointed as leaders and never actually put on the front lines. Do some reading about the aristocracy and wealthy in historical Wars
@@SgtE5 I'm thankful there are men like you who are willing to risk it all to protect their family and county. I'm sorry that wealthy/politicians are willing to take advantage of your good nature and throw away the lives of good men for their personal gain. it's the paradox of the military. Military is full of Great Men who are at the mercy of snakes.
@@mattm7378 Yes they did, but there were very few upper class and upper middle class boys who avoided service during Vietnam. The war was fought by lower middle class boys, lower class boys, and boys from the rural small towns and farms.
“Old men start wars, poor boys die in them”
I was fooled into the Iraq war... I wish I had learned about how the government-media-military industrial complex manufactures consent, before I threw my life away.
You didn't throw your life away son .you only want what is best and what you believe in,sometimes the truth is out of our reach,but we learn and advance to make our lives better its just horrible experience that we make mistakes but this is what makes us human and we can change once we are aware of our surroundings. All of us are led on this path we all have regrets we all want to thank you for your service 🙏 😊 its only human to believe in something sometimes that something is a lie,but in no way should you ever feel fault if we are not giving the truth at first then of course we can fall,but getting back up and changing is what makes us wise.we are all born this way.god bless .and take care
@@frankorobinson1540 Good speech. God bless you.
Long live Iraq*
58,000 killed in that goddamned war. I lost high school friends in that war. What a waste. What a travesty, What a tragedy.
OÄKTA DOPBOK 58,000 Americans.
@@markofsaltburn yes. And as many as 3 million Vietnamese on both sides.
Fake baptism book.
@@98Zai haha not fake!
As well as untold wounded
These things are so interesting, I’m 21 and from England but there is a huge almost nostalgic feeling when I learn about our western ancestors. Thank you Mr Hoffman, what you’re doing is preserving history in its best form, real people. Thank you! 🏴 🤝 🇺🇸
Western ancestors? We're their eastern ancestors
@@justaretardwithinternetacc2859 Exactly.
It's such a great thing to listen to!
Did that dude say that bombing a bunch of countries killing millions is better than thinking about the issue? That’s scary
is that not where were at now. i hate it but its what were doing for my whole lifetime.
I agree. I found his statements outrageous and horrible!
@@c-LAW
Dont forget Trump. He's gonna surpass Obama as a drone in Chief. That new expensive ass drone airport in Africa costed tax payers a lot of money
But it's what you all do now. Easy to look back and criticise
@@c-LAW DONALD TRUMP GEORGE HW BUSH RONALD REAGAN RICHARD NIXON JFK OLD IKE
I graduated in 1969 and found this to be outstanding! I was so afraid for the boys and extremely happy to be a girl! The war was almost constantly broadcast on TV and I was terrified! (So many important folks were assassinated...it was a very scary time!). Thanks for this insightful film...👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Unfortunately there is huge profit in war, and always the first casualty is the truth.
🎯
Demetrios Koukoulomates is that a quote or did you just come up with that? Because I want to use it as a quote and want to cite the right person.
@@HillaryMarek “In war, truth is the first casualty.” Was first stated by Aeschylus He lived between 525 BC and 456 BC
Demetrios Koukoulomates thank you very much!
@@HillaryMarek Keep in mind because that quote is so old many people with an over exaggerated sense of self worth have used it without giving credit to where it is due; mostly politicians and war historians.
DAVID- I'm younger and fought in a more recent war (for 3 years) and I can still tell you it is NOT ANY GOOD...
Ummmm yeah... no. Post 9/11 "war" is not even close to Vietnam conflict, or any other war for that matter. David and Goliath. US war machine invading and dominating third world countries with no real militaries.
@@damone70 Exactly, all in the name of "fighting terrorism". The US is the biggest terrorist nation in the world and people wonder why there's so much hatred for America in the middle east. Not that I support Islamic terrorism or Islam or any other religion but my country is so tyranical and wasteful in terms of human life and tax dollars under the guise of defending democracy or keeping americans safe at home.
"No draft no war"
Little did they know lol
I love the triple play: No draft! No war! No draft = no war. Know draft and you’ll know war.
@Jeff Webb So you want to force people to fight someone else's war and tell them they are "fighting for freedom"?
@ " _government_ outsourcing all the labor job" cope. its capitalism. all corporations did it around the world. that incidentally fits all three´s, corporation´s and government´s and bank´s interests, college costing so much that you need huge loans from banks for it is by design, wouldnt have "volunteers" to military otherwise. and corps get their cheaper labor. capitalism by its fundamental design is not nationalistic. it does not wear united states flag. never did, never will. Even china _will_ automate eventually.
@Jeff Webb i feel like the draft is wrong. if you want to fight, then fight. you shouldn't be forced to lay down your life for a cause you don't believe in. if there are not enough people who want to willingly fight then that is a sign that most likely you shouldn't be in the war.
True
Your content is among the highest quality on this platform, David.
thank you so much.
David Hoffman-filmmaker
The range of subjects and topics you have been able to have been able to chronicle is overwhelming and amazing.
Ty so much for sharing these with us!!
David,
This is very quickly becoming my favorite TH-cam channel! Not only are your videos informative and incredibly interesting, your demeanor is positive and nonjudgmental. I appreciate the range of topics you cover and the way you cover them.
- An older millennial/veteran
Thank you sir.
David Hoffman-filmmaker
I wasn’t born in USA unfortunately but your stories teach me everything I need to know about our country in 10-15 minutes . Without being boring . Straight to the point and so real . Thank you so much ♥️👍🏻🙏🏻 Happy holidays 🙂
David Hoffman, I myself am a very young man and I thank you for making these videos, I enjoy very much learning about our past generations and consider it very thought provoking
Once again thank you!
David, I recently discovered your films. These short films that examine the fifties and the sixties are outstanding. This film has strong meaning for me. I started college in 1963 to be come a teacher. During my college years, the escalated rapidly. I starting teaching in 1967 in a high school very similar to the one depicted in this film. Most of my students were college bound from upper middle class families. I taught English so the Vietnam war was discussed at times. My personal feelings about the war evolved during my college years. In 1963, I supported the war. However, after the battle for Hue, I could no longer support the war. Like many in America, I took my cue from Walter Cronkite, who openly questioned how the war was being conducted. I taught in a great school with many great teachers. However, most of the social studies teachers were very conservative and supported the war. This 30 year teacher in your film should be commended for allowing his students to comment on the main issues of the time in a free and respectful atmosphere. Those student were so fortunate to have an outstanding teacher who truly understood his mission to encourage students to be good citizens.
Thank you for sharing just a bit of your experience and perceptions, Thomas. I do believe that with all that we are confronting right now, having a historical perspective helps lead us in the right directions going forward.
David Hoffman - filmmaker
In 1965 I was a high school junior. I had a civics teacher that was teaching us about governmental structure. The Communists were on the left, Nazis were on the right, etc. One night my father came home after a meeting of the parents and asked me to show him what the teacher was telling us. Then he drew a line. On one end was complete totalitarian control. On the other was anarchy. Where, he asked, was there room for someone who didn’t want to play the game. He said forget the labels. All forms of government fall somewhere in between. Shortly thereafter that teacher was dismissed
Imagine how involved people would be today if there was a draft.
Would women be drafted ?
No,they would have to volunteer.
@@flashchrome640 is that equal and fair
@@flashchrome640 What if they are genetically female, but identify as an Apache helicopter?
Pre-op.
Andrew Henry women are drafted in Israel and Qatar, to name two that I know of.
I absolutely love the humanistic, cultural, everyday life footage this channel produces/posts. Absolutely fascinating insight
Mr Hoffman, thank you for your work. Greetings from a locked-down UK.
That boy who wanted China and southeast Asia "blown to bits" is frustrated, upset. He knew the war was grave and awful, but he could do nothing. I hope he has found peace.
Today we have much the same sentiment, "No endless wars!" Nope, we never learn.
You left out Vietnam Veterans Against The War, of which I was one.
You are correct. I am sorry that I did.
David Hoffman - filmmaker
@@DavidHoffmanFilmmaker thank you, Sir. I enjoy and appreciate your show very much.
Yes, the Winter Soldiers played a significant role in turning puplic opinion against the war.
I too serve the Soviet Union
Thank you David Hoffman. God Bless You. From the daughter of a WW2 Veteran daughter whose Dad, now a self made man, welcomed our Vietnam Veterans home warmly with loving arms.
Mine were two little helping hands in training. Dad was teaching that warriors weren’t to blame for wars, but victims of, who needed care from their fellow Americans. Dad was a fellow Veteran who had been a poor boy sent to
a war planned by men he didn’t know, doing as he was ordered, being shot at by strangers trying to survive, similar to these young men I had watched the TV “draw numbers for sending” on the news. So I was glad to help Dad welcome them home and help the wounded, although I was against all war. Still am as a 60 year old woman. Doing the math, you know I grew up young. I love my country; completely. Vietnam Veterans still have a special place in my prayers. ~
The worst part was that the soldiers themselves were rejected! But after two world wars who can blame the younger ones for not seeing a point to more death?
I spend a lot of time on TH-cam, watching stuff that probably doesn't really matter. But when I started getting old found footage on my feed I was intrigued, I have watched so many of them now. I never thought of TH-cam videos as gifts but that's what it feels like. Almost as if they were left for us to experience. Thank you so much for uploading these with such care, the hard work really shows and I can't wait for the countless hours I'll spend exploring this godsend of a channel.
Thank you so much for your comment, Jules. There is much to see on my channel as I have been posting these old footage clips for just about 10 years. I invite you to become a subscriber and a member.
David Hoffman filmmaker
@@DavidHoffmanFilmmaker entire interviews?! Say no more ☺️
I had two great uncles that were in the Vietnam War. I‘m only 23 (well, in a few days) but I have always felt some weird connection to that period of time. Probably because I was raised by people who were raised during that time. Thanks for uploading David! I’m going to go in my papaws room and watch this with him right now!
Edit: I just wanted to add that I’m grateful for your generation David! I was raised half my life by my paternal grandparents and the other half my maternal grandparents and they made me who I am today. I’ve never been into the whole “ok boomer” thing because, while I know most are just cracking a joke, I find it kind of disrespectful and I don’t feel comfortable saying it really lol but thanks for all your hard work! You’re one of my fav TH-cam channels!
Thank you for sharing Ann.
David Hoffman - filmmaker
I would love to see the rest of these video. Also I have to say every time I watch one I can’t stop clicking more and more. I think you’ve contributed something that’s value cannot be measured by bringing us videos like this and others that allow us to take a real look into the past. I thank you for this. Keep up the great work.
Thank you so much.
David Hoffman
"old men start them knowing young men must fight them"
My Dad was a USAF Pilot in this very conflict having served Two one year deployments separated by only 6 months between 1965 and 1968. Yes, he enlisted as a younger man NOT anticipating war but to serve his Country if need be. He respected the opinions of others....BUT....he was very aware of the horrific diatribe spewed towards fellow soldiers upon returning from Vietnam (IF they were fortunate enough to survive their Tours). I dare say I've NEVER seen a documentary on how awful Our Soldiers were mistreated back in the day. I'll STOP now before I go off the rails. Good Day From Ohio Mr. Hoffman.
Good Lord, both of these replies are ridiculous... I appreciate your father's service.
@@cheryal6661 No worries Cheryal....I appreciate your comment and I refuse to disrespect Mr. Hoffman by engaging with the people who come in here solely to argue. Cheers
Poor soldiers. Just following orders to slaughter entire villages of yellow people on the other side of the world. True American heroes.
occupunewparadigm, He is telling the truth. The post you said is Google/FB misinformation, just LIKE the misinformation WE as boomers were fed by the media. I LIVED during those years and SAW with my own eyes, the mistreatment of soldiers coming back from Vietnam. It was
DISGUSTING. They were spit on, screamed at, called "baby killers", and worse. It was always the college kids that did this. THEY went to college to avoid the draft, and others couldn't afford college (many couldnt) it was mainly hippies, and those acting like "hippies", who didn't do much of anything, but go to school, do drugs, have sex, and protest. When non college kids were working farms, factories, and many labor jobs.
The older generation believed in the war, because they only understood ut from a WWII perspective, where there was a real enemy.
Vietnam had no real "enemy". We didn't solve or help anything. It was a war for certain people to get RICH, and others to get DEAD. LBJ, ramped up the war to help his buddies get rich. This we knew even as kids and we hated that.
Soldiers were treated terribly, and the VA hospitals were the WORST. The guys came back from Vietnam SO messed up, because it was a war they weren't SUPPOSED TO WIN, it was only to make money for the silent generation (our parents age) folks while these men paid for it with their lives. My brother in law was one of these, and getting the VA help was terrible. Most young families of servicemen didn't do very well financially or emotionally.
There were MANY boomers who weren't handed "everything", and (weren't handed anything), with no parental help, no encouragement, and just told, "You're 18, time to get out on your own". We had to do most everything on our own. Also, there were those such as my family, who were severely abused and abandoned, and still had to "make it" on our own with no help. My husband and I are at retirement age and are still struggling. It's hard to hear all the "boomers are rotten" stuff, when people aren't hearing the whole thing. There's SO much more. Just like the Millenials.....some are spoiled rotten, others are good people. Perspective!!
Occupy, So, your're calling me a liar? I LIVED THIS! Tell me about your vast knowledge of living during this time. I saw many things and it was awful.
I had friends who died during this war. The war was every day, every hour, and hurt most every town in this country, who lost men and women during this time.
I'm telling you NOT to believe the media....They LIE. I guess you haven't read or seen the "information scrubbing", which the government (deep state, if you will) has been doing for decades. They've been taking information out of libraries (school and public) scrubbing articles, newspaper archives, and many things, to re-write history. BTW...conservative or liberal has nothing to do with this....it's called "right and wrong". Certain people don't want the younger groups to know what they've been doing. It's called CONTROL, and getting you to believe what THEY want. This has been done for centuries actually, but especially since this "information age".
Why don't you seek out some Vietnam vets and talk to them yourself? Ask their family members, find out on your own.
I'm glad you are teaching this because I don't think it's being taught anymore. I hated the Vietnam war. Mylei (sp?) was it for me, and Kent State was unbelievable. I remember seeing on television piles of bodies like 15 feet high. It was horrific.
Mr Hoffman, you have a subtle yet savage edgelord inside and I love it. These responses to the “OK, Boomer” insult are amazing. Keep it up. Hopefully it will become obvious to the younger generations how cyclical some things are (politicizing of war, for example) and how much they improve when the old games/tricks are avoided (let’s not do McCarthyism again, ok?).
we are engaged in full scale McCarthyism as we speak. Every phone call and text is recorded, saved and scanned for "word of interest", Google home and Alexa and your phone are constantly listening in on you and the information is sent to homeland security. People who try to blow this whistle like Edward Snowdon, Julien Assange and Chelsea Manning are labelled terrorists and hunted by the CIA and FBI. The kids today are fighting to avoid falling in the trap that the boomers fell into. They want to stay mad at the system that takes advantage of them, not give in to it when the system decides to ease up and provide some financial relief as they age a bit. The kids are aware that war is cyclical but also acutely aware that they are all based on falsehoods, lies that are revealed after the fact and are started by the rich. America is a war mongering country and the kids are both disillusioned and fed uo
I graduated HS in 1969. one fact barely mention is that til 1972 the ''draft age was 18'' but ''voting age was 21'' the implications of this disparity was not lost, making many ''kids'' angry & defiant.
yeah, that's absurd. What was the drinking age?
@@98Zai 21 '''old enuf to kill but not old enuf to have a beer''
I love the perspective of these well-spoken young people which have been preserved for us. We really need to understand all the different ways of thinking whenever we enter any particular topic.
I totally agree! 🌴✌🌴
Amazing videos Mr. Hoffman, keep it up! I wish we were related so we could just talk about these things for all the holidays. Youre giving us more information than stuff in our textbooks.
I love your work ❤️🙏
Amazing work Mr. Hoffman...as fascinating now, as it was then! Can't wait to explore more of your works!
Awesome! Thank you!
HI DAVID HOFFMAN ALL THE BEST WISHES TO YOU FROM THE SOUTH FORMER OF VIET NAM
High schoolers in 1969 were more articulate and capable of entertaining other ideas and points of view than adults in 2019. Well, that's depressing.
Thanks for sharing this footage, your videos always make me think.
You sure about that? Just because we see it more commonly on the internet doesn’t exactly mean adults don’t look into different perspectives. Mind you they are young adults. I mean you are talking about 5 years after the Civil Right Act was established. That didn’t rid the mindset. These are reports of some students at the time.
Back in early 1971 you could get a draft exemption by taking 12 hours of classes at a community college, and maintaining a barely passing GPA. My brother and his 2 friends did that and easily had time to work part time and party a lot. I got a low draft lottery number of 33, and wasn't doing anything but hanging out with mixed feelings about the war. I went in for my induction physical after the notification letter came in the mail. The last part of the induction physical involved a written test. I was right handed and at the time it was broken and in a cast. A young Army doctor there at the time walked up to me and said " you're in no shape to take this part, go home and we will be in touch with you about when to come back". I never heard anything. 3 years later I received a received a draft status card with something like 4F on it.
I love these old film footages of everyday people whether they're young or old voicing their opinions on different subjects it like being a fly on the walls of time. Thanks David Hoffman.
Wait, why were the reserves not already drafted, but some kid in a classroom could be called at any time!? What was that about?!
This video cut off at an important part. Who wanted to hear what the reservist had to say
There's no way anyone can understand what it was like unless you were there. It was a dark time.
Also pretty sad that a lot of these same students championed the war in Iraq a few decades later
@@TheChristafershawn Yeah but we thought they first one was justified back then before the internet. Very few opposed the war.
@ 91, or 2003?
@ many opposed it in the UK, especially 03. There was a feeling with many people that the reasons for the war weren't the reasons we were being given. As opposed to the Falklands War of a decade earlier, which was also opposed by some, where the reasons for going in seemed really quite clear and straightforward.
“It is only one who is thoroughly aquatinted with the evils of war that can thoroughly understand the profitable way of carrying it on” - sun Tzu the art of war
I graduated high school in 1964, and I remember thinking that no good could come to anyone who fought using conventional warfare against those who used guerrilla tactics. I've always loved history and had seen plenty of examples in that.
For me, this is one gigantic scab that keeps being picked at. All I want to do is forget that feeling I had when I came back and was treated like shit stuck on someone's shoe. Nope please let me put this away in the box that sits on my shelf. Not to say I'm not proud of what I did, but for me it's the people I lost, and how they went. I know you mean well but some of us just want to forget.
I'm truly curious, was not going ever a choice? What kept you from dodging the draft if you didn't agree with the war, like so many did?
@@motox2416 Some people I know went to Canada, and that 's their choice I have no beef with them. They paid their price and didn't see their families for years, but I can say they were gutless but that just me. I enlisted in high school and went on active duty a year later, I joined the Reservers, 2x6 plan. Funny thing if I would of let them draft me I wouldn't have been taken, Luck of the draw.
We should never forget because we've been doing the same crap ever since.
@@tropicalco2339 Didn't ask you to forget,, I'm just tired of hearing the same old rhetoric, we all know the outcome. I've lived with this every day for the past 48 years, you didn't live through it as I did. Now that I'm 70 I just want to enjoy my 9 grandchildren and enjoy my last days on this planet.
@@brucemartinez5343 I don't see them as gutless. They were actually very brave. There's no way in hell I would be forced to go to another country to kill people I don't know. The draft is one of the most depraved institutions in our society.
WELCOME HOME VIETNAM VETS!!! Thank you and welcome home.. something that should have been said too you in those days....
Thank you for posting this! I've looked everywhere for this kind of stuff.
I was born in 1964, and was a child when that war went on. Now, I am at the age of the elders shown in this short, and it's interesting to me to find myself at this age, and I often think about what, how, and why those elders, whether pro- or anti-Viet-Nam War, felt and thought about it, as well about those who would have been more or less in my elder siblings' and friends' generation back then, too. I believe that this is a good reminder that not everyone in every generation felt and thought the same way, either then or now.
Unfortunately nothing much has changed concerning war from 1969 to 2019. You would think in 50 yrs time everybody would be against war and do everything possible to prevent it.We are still polarized as much today as we were in 1969...have we learned nothing ? Or ....has apathy deep seated itself in the collective psyche of this country , that we still believe (naively )“ somebody” else will take care of it.....and so the cycle continues.
partisan divide,Family's broke apart,people yelling instead of talking.
Seems like things don't really change that much at all
Marshal burnsy Thanksgiving Dinner?
"" war is a racket "" said General Butler , , !
He said the taxes are too high? Yeah they went up 1000% since then
They went down at lest for the rich
I guess you failed math in grade school.
This was such a difficult time. I graduated high school in 1969.
Would like to know how these young kids feel about Vietnam today now that they’re well into their 60’s-70’s! Wonder how Many are awake now🤷♀️
Awake. You mean agree with you and how you view war
Sodbuster346 awake meaning knowing the truth about not only wars, but EVERYTHING we’ve been lied to about.
Cynthia Marvin Your being lied to still everyday So am I Obama bombs Libya Trump kills an Iran General. What makes you think you know the truth.
Sodbuster346 one HUGE example, we don’t live on a spinning ball! Even as a child laying on my back in the yard the clouds moved not I. I’ve learned there are over 75 bible verses that prove our earth is stationary. Also in grade school our maps revealed a circle of white around us, hence it’s a flat earth. Admiral Bird also confirmed flat earth. Even Buzz Aldrin admitted they never went to the moon. These were some of my “awakening “ moments.
Cynthia Marvin Sounds like you got it all figured Stay safe. Don’t drive off the end of the earth.
I think one of the biggest differences between American society in 1969 and 2020 is that we weren't saturated with what I would call "dessert" - celeb culture, the 24-7 availabilty of media, no need to get up and change one of the three channels we had back then, no need to get up and turn a "record" over. Those pleasures are now front and center, we've made them over-important when they are meant to be enjoyed, say, after work or when you have free time. Also, what's happened since then is that bad language and "street" culture have been made chic, whereas once you would be sent to the Principal's office for swearing. (Now swearing is fine but you can't use racial or religious epithets under pain of public roasting, loss of job and life ruined.) Not saying it's right or wrong, good or bad - I won't be here forever so I see myself as just an observer, and when I'm gone, things will continue to progress and change without my help! Thank you, David, for these fascinating chronicles. My Dad was a WW2 bombardier.
So, the Vietnam conflict was concluded by the time I was a year old. I understand the history of why the US was there but I never understood why we remained. Sunk cost fallacy? I was in high school when the first Gulf War broke out. I felt like Bush Sr. gave Hussain adequate notice to leave Kuawait. What bothered me then and bothers me now is that a lot of the conflicts we see and involve ourselves in are historical conflicts. It was our past interference that lead to that conflict. The US's support of the Iranian Shah, or even bailing the French out which lead to Viet nam in the first place. Why are we so war like? I love my country, but we are far to quick to fight than we ought. If I were alive during the Viet Nam era, I wouldn't have gone to war. It was a stupid waste of life on both sides.
@B Sharp ... Have you ever heard of the role of April Glaspie?
New subscriber here. I’m a 27yo from the PNW. I’ve seen several of your videos over the last year or so, not knowing they were from the same channel. Just wanted to let you know that I’ve really enjoyed and have learned a ton that I believe otherwise would have slipped through the many cracks which run freely through the “official record” in regards to the century before me. Perspective carries the most weight for me coming from the ones who don’t bet their future and livelihood off of manipulating other peoples perspectives and livelihood.
Seems like yesterday, David. Polarities and Similarities of yesteryear and today are Interesting and informative.
Wow... just wow. I'm really glad you're sharing these stories. We should all watch and learn.
It's a culling of honorable men.
I'm a Boomer who came to the USA when President Eisenhower was about to hand over the mantle to JFK. Us younger kids loved JFK. I remember the Cuban missile crises and duck and cover drills in school and know a marine who was on a ship during the blockaid. He never received the recognition he really deserved. I thank those men and women who served during that period because they kept us young kids safe and that was leading up to the Vietnam war. The Vietnam war was a nightly news topic. I remember my neighbors who played Little league and one died in Vietnam in 67. In 1969 I was 12 years old, and was wondering if I would eventually be going to Vietnam when my time came and I often thought about it but I was more interested in baseball and seeing the Mets overcome the Cubs and go on to win the World Series. On my birthday the New York Mets won the World Series. That year I won the Gary Paul Steffus memorial award in Little league for being the MVP in Gary's memory. My neighbor the marine who died in 67 in Vietnam. When I was awarded the trophy by his parents I was shaking and didn't want to say the wrong thing to a Gold Star family. My brother got his draft card after our pullout. In April 30th 1975 at 17, I volunteered and asked if I could go to Vietnam but was told no more troops would be going since the 72 pullout. Ironically after I was inducted into the service Saigon fell that night. I wound up on the Iron Curtain and unfortunately had my own misfortune. I was supposed to go to Berlin Brigrade but my cousin helped me change my mind. I served with my cousin which was very unusual since the Sullivan Brothers died in WWII. My family suffered and fought in that war. My Grandfather was tortured to death after 30 days in NAZI occupied Yugoslavia. My dad fought against the NAZIS and Partisan Communists and was shot and captured. He watched 12 men including his cousin get shot and killed. My mother lived under Mussoulini and Fascism. Her family suffered. Her cousin was shot by the NAZIS for being out after curfew looking for food for his crying children ravaged with hunger. My uncle was in the Italian Navy and wanted to say goodbye to his grandmother before he left port. His friend knew they would be late and left my uncle pleading with him to get back to ship. My uncle refused until he said his goodby to her. He eventually got to the port and the ship was gone. It went out to sea and was sunk by an allied ship. My uncle was spared his life but I believe all on board ship had died. How ironic to have family members on each side of the war. My uncle did not support Mussoulini nor my Italian family members but he had no choice and if he refused to go would have probably been shot or jailed. I too would be the 3rd generation in my family on my father's side to suffer the consequences of being held as a prisoner. I was detained behind the Iron Curtain and had guns in my back and head and ordered to sign confessions which I refused. I hope I lived up to the expectation of a young man who lost his life in Vietnam. I'm a Disabled Veteran. Rest in Peace Gary Paul Steffus. If I get to the wall I will leave the memorial trophy where it belongs along with all the other important things of rememberance to our soldiers from that war.Another one of my friends served on a ship and was part of the rescue mission when I was inducted on April 30,1975. He helped throw those helicopters over the sides of the carrier so room was made for survivors. I thank him for his service. The Cold War had victims too and is very much forgotten. My Cold War Brothers that I served with deserve recognition but it won't happen until they are all passed away. East Germany and the Soviet Union supplied arms and funded the Vietnam war. I have had over 40 operations and most due to my service. I would never admit that I was suffering from PTSD and refused treatment and compensation money. It was an honor to serve with Vietnam Veterans and I always respected them because of Gary Paul Steffus and seeing of Walter Chronkite and the nightly news stories from a far away place. I remember Kent State and the riots in Chicago in 68. I would sit in the park drinking and thinking about how mayor Dailey and the DNC was a disaster and after it appeared that RFK would be our President who would get our troops home. It was not to be because of his assassination. I guess the best thank you I ever received was from Commander Lyoyd Bucher CMDR. of the USS Pueblo whose crew were held captive by North Korea for about a year. He drew a beautiful painting and signed it for me. I also have a picture Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher sent me thanking me for my service. We didn't get medals and any thank you back then but that was better than what those young men and women were getting coming back from Vietnam got. Who wants to be called a baby killer and spit on. I did know of some bad troopers who never should have been in the service. Friends fighting resulting in death. A trooper doing acid and relentlessly stabbing and murdering a poor West German girl. A deranged lunatic who beat his roommate with a Steel bunk adapter and nearly killed him as he slept thus recieving a dishonorable discharge and a prison sentence. Something's are so twisted and barbaric I cannot mention them here because they are too shocking. I've survived my own ordeals which maybe I can never full discuss. It's not good but from East Germany to Juarez, Mexico I have had a bizarre life and was beaten and tortured. Gary Paul Steffus I wasn't always the best role model and had my share of bad but I never ever betrayed my country. Rest in Peace to all the Brave Vietnam Veterans who served and passed away, some many years after. I remember seeing WWI Veterans when I first went to the VA, then they all passed away, now the WWII and early Cold War Veterans are being seen less and less. I have had many close calls. I have much to say but it is difficult to get it out, it's been buried inside of me from the 70s. May all the people who lost their lives in Vietnam rest in Peace. We are not enemies anymore and let time heal all old wounds. I'm trying my best to get by each and every day but it is difficult because of the physical and mental pain I live with. I have much to be thankful for because I have been Clinically dead. I am thankful that I was blessed with a wonderful son who keeps me going even when I want to quit. I could go on and have much to say but what I have is a start. It's the most I have written about since the 70s when I tried to bury that pain within me but was only destroying myself more. Rest in Peace Cousin, we served together and laid in snow on alerts waiting for terrorist attacks by the Baader Meinhoff and a Soviet Invasion. I'm proud to have served with you and the Vietnam Veterans who endured in Hell. Rest in Peace Pearl harbor Veterans and Civilians, Dec. 7, 2019. I have many a day in a life episodes. I have survivors guilt because I never seemed to have had long term imprisonment and always gotten through near death experiences but it is ironic how a day in a life can change you and affect your life and all those single days add up to a lifetime of experiences which can destroy you if you let them.
thank you for sharing these bits of your story. Aren't they worth your trying to do a video and sharing it all with those who might care to hear what happened to you and what you have learned as a result?
David Hoffman-filmmaker
@@DavidHoffmanFilmmaker I have been a very private person and only a few people know what has happened to me but not everything and of course the VA knows some. I'm still a bit hesitant about opening up to the entire world as I can't talk about some details. Too painful still. It has been a hard journey and I am still dealing with the memories that will forever remain buried within me. I didn't go into the experience I encountered in Juarez, Mexico after my experience behind the Iron Curtain. That in itself is another one that I survived but I was drugged up, beaten by the police who were corrupt. I was definitely set up. They apparently like to drag Americans from a car bumper through the terrain. I was pretty much a bloody mess without going further into those details. If anything my heart really goes out to younger Veterans. There is a reason why they are committing suicide at an alarming rate. I've been down that rode and understand what they are dealing with. The ones without any financial support that have no family or strong support structure probably will not make it. The VA will resist in regards to any compensation for them even after doctors diagnosis of PTSD. These young men and women are warriors and injuries were frowned upon in my time in the military. If I was hurt I hid it and your taught to suck it up. I developed hearing loss from a tank firing about 7 feet from mine on a firing line. I was told by our loader we were done firing. It was very hot and being a driver at that time took off my helmet and opened up the driver's hatch, raised the seat and felt the relief of some air when the tank next to me fired. I first saw the flash, then the compression from the blast felt like my face was crushed. I immediately could not hear anything but a loud ringing. Rather than face the scrutiny of command and become the brunt of jokes, I heard that ringing for about a week. I know now that I should have had medical treatment but as I said your taught to suck it up and don't complain and you certainly don't want to be the brunt of jokes. Soldiers can be brutal with the jabs. To this day I have lost about 50%of my hearing on the right side. I don't hear certain notes. If you watched Saving Private Ryan in the scene where Tom Hanks loses his hearing and he hears ringing, well that's what I dealt with rather than to be chastised. I listened to our loader and it cost me. I'm sure many injuries are written off by soldiers rather than facing ridicule. The VA is also making major mistakes by not allowing Veterans in those legal medical cannabis states to use it and banning them from treatment because they are Federal. I believe that if a Veteran needs medical cannabis and it will calm them down, improve their life and perhaps save their lives then why isn't the VA making allowncences for them? Instead of telling them that they can't use the VA pain clinic or use the VA because of their Cannibis use. If they were serious about saving these younger Veterans who have once have or do use Cannibis then they should consider that option. I have been considering writing a book about the experiences I encountered. I don't know if it will be of use to anyone but perhaps if I knew I was helping others struggling with issues from their service I may be encouraged to do a video. I'm just not certain yet Mr. Hoffman but if I can get some recognition for my peers then maybe. You are the first person who has asked me to share a video. It is ironic but I have some super 8 footage from a foot patrol on the Iron Curtain but some parts need digital correction mainly the footage of the fence because I panned so fast. What can I say, young kid and not much experience but I don't see too much footage from Troopers during that time. The fence had pressurized mines and if they failed to go off, the fence had razor blades that would cut the fingers off of a person who gripped it as they were trying to escape from East to West Germany.
They cut off that “I’m sick of Vietnam” guy real quick lmao (and I believe it’s for the better)
If you do a documentary today in a classroom, the kids would be busy looking at their smartphones, lol
Thank you Mr.Hoffman for this video. Born in 1980 in India, so these students might be of my parents age. They think and speak so differently than today's youth
I was 18 years old in '69 and my status for the draft was 1A and college was definitely not in my future. I guess I was one of the few people who had no strong feelings about the war. Probably because when I heard arguments from either side I could not tell if either side (for or against the war) was right or wrong.
There really was nobody in my life who could counsel me or mentor me. I had to figure things out for myself. One thing was certain though; that was that I would NOT become a fugitive and avoid the draft by going to Canada or by refusing to report should If and when I received my draft notice.
I did the best thing I knew to do. That was to join the Air Force Reserve. I suppose that in a way I was supporting the War by becoming a Reservist in USAF but I felt like I was doing the best thing by fulfilling my obligation without actually being sent to Vietnam.
Today I am 68 and to this day I do NOT know with any degree of certainty if Americas campaign in Southeast Asia was righteous or not. I did the best thing possible considering my ambiguity about the war in Vietnam and I'm glad I did it that way.
Smart move soldier.
These videos are amazing! David, Thank You!
Substitute vietnam on film with War on Terror and see how much it sounds relevant in 2020. War doesn't change.
The Okayed Boomer one exception our young people don’t have as much common sense. They are so polite. I graduated in 1971. So I remember the Vietnam war very well 😭✝️ God bless all who served and if they made it home they were treated badly. Men and women 💔
The fear of spreading communism that never happened. As far as I know North Vietnam has never exported or spread their philosophy or threatened us or surrounding nations.Does that mean 59 thousand young men and women died in vain? I don’t think our government has ever adequately explained to its people what was actually accomplished. If Vietnam was really hellbent on influencing others the fear of us returning wouldn’t have mattered since we left so abruptly leaving our supporters to pay the price.
"Pretty ridiculous in an AGE when we have such great communication" 👍 half a century later... same.
It’s crazy to watch this an realize how greatly overall intelligence has declined, especially in proper speech
That's over diversity for you.
I was thinking the same thing. These high schooler's had a better vocabulary than most people I spoke to in college 10 years ago.
Crazy how many statements can still be held true today
I remember at the of the evening news at the end of the broadcast they scrolled the names of all the soldiers who had been killed in Vietnam that day. Very sad.
Mr. Hoffman whats your opinion on the USS liberty incident?
Some of these so-called men look 12 years old, its enlightening to see high school students debate and educate themselves on the war.
Make fun of them or compliment them. Pick one.
Graduated from a high school in a small town in 1969. My dad was a Marine in the Korean War. Both of my parents were anti war.
As someone who just graduated high school (class of 2020) and we had a lot of dialogues and sharing our opinions just like this in a couple of my classes, it really feels like the way teenagers articulate themselves hasn’t changed much at all. I’m in a similar area of Virginia too so the accents are pretty close as well. I notice a lot of adults saying that teens aren’t as articulate today, but I beg to differ.
Mr Hoffman I do hope you realize what an incredible thing you have going here, your whole career and now with this TH-cam channel. I am shocked that you dont have 10 million subs.
Thank you. I am trying very hard to achieve a larger audience and work every day added for at least eight hours. It has become my primary source of income and my primary source of creative joy.
David Hoffman filmmaker
Hey David - Just wanted to say thanks for making these videos and keep it up.
I served in Vietnam 1969-70. I was drafted and enlisted. I am very proud to have served in spite of coming back to an ungrateful group of US residents. And the COWARDS who made their decisions to go to Canada and or Mexico and suffered no punishment for their actions.
I am very impressed at how mature and intelligent these kids were back then. I graduated high school in 1998 and very few of the kids had these types of well thought out opinions. Sure, there were a few. There was a girl that I had a HUGE crush on, named Vanessa, who was a member of amnesty international club that met after school and all of that. I liked her so much because of the way she would look at me and others. It was a look of trying to understand how I might feel. It's sad because so many people thought that she was 'stuck up' but in reality, now that I'm older, i realize that it was a feeling of pity, sadness, and the inability to comprehend the apathy of the other kids.
And her mother was really intelligent too. She would always be involved in whatever afterschool activities that Vanessa was interested in. And when her mom would show up, Vanessa was always happy to see her! I think that parent involvement is a huge missing element in the lives of kids today; especially teenagers. Too many sons without fathers, and that's a fact. I'm not talking about so-called 'non-traditional' living arrangements either. I think most people are past that (thank GOD) In fact, adoptive, gay/lesbian partners can be some of the parents that a kid can have!
But a kid needs a communicative and punctual parent, no matter if it's mom/daughter, son/father, son/trans-other, etc. The love and devotion is what's important.
But our society has been set up to have latch-key kids, both parents working (almost as slaves basically), divorce sanctioned and even encouraged, cheating prevalent due to this constant work schedule and loneliness, abandonment of spiritual faith and development (whether Christian, Jew, Muslim, Hindi, etc...all of which are family activities that have the same base values)... it makes me really sad; A 12 year old child has to get up in the morning alone, eat some not-too-healthy breakfast that they made themselves, walk to school, walk home, and be asleep already by the time a parent comes home, 5 days a week. Almost no family time.
I grew up homeless and alone starting when I was 15. I used to beg for change to eat, walk two towns over so my school mates wouldn't see me, show up wearing dirty clothes, but I still went to school everyday. And this situation wasn't as uncommon as you might think.
I used to cry, and cry wishing I had a family. There were a couple Mormon families that showed me compassion and invite me over to eat with them and whatnot. Everyone would sit down together, even if it was just canned soup and toast, pray (one family had a 'prayer wheel' on the fridge and they would be sad if it wasn't their turn!) I used play with all the brothers and sisters on the trampoline in the back yard, and standing by the window inside the house were the mom and dad, holding hands, and watching all the kids play together. Those are some of my best memories. And don't get me wrong, it wasn't only Mormon families that extended this compassion to me.
One particular man was a 3rd degree Freemason. He helped more more that anyone. He let me rent the spare room at his family's house after his one daughter moved away. Not for free. He made me earn the money to pay him rent, which was a paltry $100 plus 1/4th the utilities. He was up my butt constantly about too. But that kick in my ass made me get myself in gear. He was one of the best men I have ever met (RIP Mr G.) And I just happened to meet him by chance when that Masonic lodge was cooking hotdogs outside and I happened to walk by.
There's a God. Have some faith every once in awhile.
I am having a lot of trouble right now and Mr. Hoffman, so many of your videos are a great inspiration to me, to keep my chin up and plow through.
Maybe you don't get told that enough but I hope you do.
It's like this song:
th-cam.com/video/CTAud5O7Qqk/w-d-xo.html
Probably not your favored style of music but the lyrics are fantastic.
I want to be able to watch everyone of these films in this series
Please do. Ask for making sense of the sixties on my TH-cam channel
Thinking this is before 1969? That young lady in the classroom mentioned the "hippies" in San Francisco. I can see this being 1966 or even early 1967, but by 1969, hippies were everywhere. Very interesting nonetheless.
Man we need these kinds of classes right now as a hard conversation is better than uncomfortable silence
Williamsburg Virginia, born and raised. Currently a zoomer advocating for peace and world tolerance in a world being torn apart by it's leaders and it's enemies alike. I hope to never have to take up a gun against the US government, but I am prepared and willing to do so. I like to think my home state is an advocate of change, a southern state with an agenda, a purpose, and a legislature that cares for the good of the country at large. My first vote was for Ralph Northam and Justin Fairfax. I hope that one day I can give equal or greater testimony than these fellow Virginians as to the chaos and pure dispair of today's problems and issues, God willing we last that long. I'm aware I may not survive to have children, nor will my children be able to survive in a world defined by chaos and disorder on both sides of the parallel. My testimony is my life, my life is my testimony. Listen to your country's youth, they are the only ones who can accurately tell the future.
Also, am I aware that I'm wine-drunk on a Sunday night rattling my own issues to a captive audience? Of course I am dumbass, now shut up and pay attention.
"You drop your knife I'll drop my gun" is still the American way of diplomacy
Would you drop your gun if someone had a knife pointed at you?
@bilokoje ime Is it loaded?
@bilokoje ime Why would I have a not-loaded gun? I might as well have a rock.
@bilokoje ime You can't maintain peace without first preparing for war.
You are related to Larry David and Bernie Sanders? The 2 are cousins i read you were. Just curious if any relation. Love your videos
unfortunately not related and never met them. thank you for your compliment.
David Hoffman-filmmaker
War is not the answer to resolving conflicts!
Yes people had strong feelings about Vietnaum and our involvement. Over time opposition to the war increased. After Kent State, those opposed to the grew significantly. I knew guys who were killed and some who were traumatized the rest of their lives by what they experianced.
yes views changed after Kent State. PARENTS of demonstrators began to oppose the war too and agree with their kids, ending the ''generation gap''
when LBJ expanded the war from Viet Nam into Cambodia, the congress did not approve that. then Nixon lied about the expansion.
The wars make the bankers happy. Everyone else should have been against it. My dad was considered the best of his family by his peer group and grew up in a hard life and on top of that was drafted. That war has never ended since it is still alive to me. It never went away. It has its part in making a piece of who I am. Since my Dad had a very high IQ they wanted to keep him in the army but he refused. In this video clip, Henry Cooper said he would leave for boot camp on May first. That was the day I was born. So I had a Dad but I didn't have a Dad. He couldn't be bothered. He didn't like me and told me so often. He told me many times that he wished I wasn't born. His money went to himself and his friends. So really my siblings and I were raised much more like a single-parent home. There's always much more one can tell about it. (As far as generations go, my Dad was Silent Generation, my Mom a Baby Boomer, and I am a Generation X-er.)
8:20
This kid later became a high ranking official in the republican party through the 1980's .
Then switched to the democratic party administration through the 90s into the 2000s.......
He still holds the same viewpoints.
He later had a deep role in the tax policies that led to the outsourcing of jobs to southeast Asia.
I graduated HS in 1970 my draft # was 61. I enlisted in the Reserves (as an infantry private.) in order to dodge the draft. served 23 years during the cold war (in Germany & Korea) and retired as a MAJOR in logistics (Ordnance Corps)
Wow, I'm 7 years younger than these kids and I don't remember young people being this articulate.
In 1969 I was the one sent to the Dean every pep rally for not standing during the anthem. We also mimeographed small flyers against the war. Seeing these submissive kids brings back nightmares in a way.
I lived through that war. I was 15 in 1969. It was horrible. There was less censorship on television than there is now. When I was 9 years old I saw Lee Harvey Oswald shot in the stomach on live television. During the Vietnam War they showed gruesome battlefield scenes and injured soldiers. It was a war that we should never have been involved in, killing a lot of innocent people. I have hated war ever since. When I found out that Bush, Sr. had pushed us into the Gulf War I cried inconsolably, remembering how the Vietnam War dragged on and on while the casualties mounted. I guess that one kid was probably one who became a Republican politician.”We should blow up all of Southeast Asia.” Um, OK. This guy was a great teacher, by the way. 🙂
Man, that dude saying he wants to nuke all of Asia must've woken up on the wrong side of the bed.
He wasn’t wrong looking at our youth loving communism today.
@@UnknownName5050 No, the nuking of Asia, which would result in the deaths of billions (hundreds of millions at the time), is demonstrably worse than a small vocal minority of teenagers doing dumb things.
Is no one else low key simmering about how the narrator spoke over the young woman's entire comment and then let the two following boys finish their rambling thoughts
Thank you for uploading. They never taught me anything except that we were fighting the communists.
‘ Hippies, there are about 5,000 of them in SF’. . . 😂 Beautiful