In the books, that's actually Harry's prediction for Ron. The movies flipped it. And more specifically, the line is "So you're going to suffer but be very happy."
The 13 to dine thing also comes up twice again. At Harry's first night in 12 Grimmauld Place, there are 13 people present for dinner and Sirius is the first to rise from his seat. Then in DH, there are 13 present to drink a toast in memory of Moody and Remus is the first to leave.
Aside a few exceptions, Rowling foreshadows purposefully for each specific book, but it usually doesn't go beyond said book. What she does more than that is take what is established and build on it giving the impression it was planned all along i.e. the vanishing cabinet. Imo, her best bit of foreshadowing was the "glint in Dumbledore's eyes" in Goblet of Fire with the payoff in Hallows. That bit was brilliant.
@damgful sorry I didn't mean to send the nerd emoji I meant to send another one. Can't remember which but I think they were next to each other at the time
When hiding the half blood prince's book, Harry does the following: "Would he be able to find this spot again amidst all this junk? Seizing the chipped bust of an ugly old warlock from on top of a nearby crate, he stood it on top of the cupboard where the book was now hidden, perched a dusty old wig and a tarnished tiara on the statue’s head to make it more distinctive, then sprinted back through the alleyways of hidden junk as fast as he could go, back to the door, back out onto the corridor, where he slammed the door behind him, and it turned at once back into stone." That Tiara is the Diadem of Ravenclaw.
i can already see, x amount of years in the future, when the hbo show is on the HBP, the shot is going to linger on that tiara for slightly too long. because subtlety is dead
@@onefinegent i imagine many younger viewers experiencing HP for the first time with that show won't be able to put the pieces together and will only realize the foreshadowing later on
- Each and every Trelawney's prediction came true. From Lavander's rabbit to the Lightning-Struck Tower. - Objects and potions mentioned by Snape during Harry's 1st lesson come back later. - We see Dumbledore's patronus in the Goblet of fire, though we don't know about them till book 5. - Harry hears the sound of apparation a few times, before he learns about it. He mistakes it for the sound of a car muffler popping. - A lot of name drops! - The list goes on endlessly I've noticed myself or learned about all the foreshadowings you mention, and I enjoyed the video nonetheless. I absolutely love the triumphant gleam in Dumbledore's eyes and Petunia's subtle mention of Snape. Bloody brilliant writing.
22:45 I think what's actually happening is Firenze getting in trouble for getting in between Harry and Voldemort. Centaurs can see into the future looking at the stars and planets, yet the only problem is.. they aren't always very accurate to the date, meaning they could be off by a few years. What the centaurs thaught they where witnessing what happened at the end of book 7, Voldemort killing Harry in the forbidden forest, ending the war, and eventually ending voldemort. Meaning the very end of the series was foreshadowed in book 1.
Regarding Horcruxes, they don’t really exist until book 6. From a writing standpoint if they existed earlier they would be used as a Macguffin or red herring earlier. Tom Riddle’s diary is a retcon, sort of like Loki’s Scepter, the tesseract, and the aether becoming infinity stones in the MCU. The concept of Voldemort being a repeatable villain and a hard sumofabitch to kill is obviously early on and harry having a part of Voldemort in him is, but the exact mechanism isn’t figured out until later.
Only the Infinity Stones weren't a Mcguffin or a retcon. The Infinity Saga was established in the first "The Avengers" movie if I'm not wrong. The "Infinity Stones" storyline existed for decades before the movies. The moment one appeared, the story was already written, and it was being adapted. The Harry Potter series books were the original story. It wasn't the most creative in the world, and they had their own problems, but we can not say it wasn't one of the kind pop moments, like the original Infinity Gauntlet storyline in the comics. That's why even before the "Multiverse Saga" was announced, we were considering which story the MCU would adapt next. Starting with WandaVision and the quasi adaptation of "House of M" for comic fans was a big giveaway.
nah the diary is a much better retcon than the infinity stones. It fits much more and the idea was built upon from the basis of the diary. The infinity stones were thought of as an idea and then placed onto those items because yeah it kinda makes sense. No expansion was done on them like the diary and other horcruxes.
The centaurs talk about how the planets mean harry should be killed by Voldemort in the Forrest in the chapter “the forest” book 1. Only later in “the forest again” in book 7 does harry finally die in the forest. They thought they got in the way of fate in that first chapter. But in book 5 Firenze talks about how centaurs predictions could be over huge periods of time. So they had the correct prediction but the wrong date by 7 years…
Just to correct the record… You said the scene in the movie with the boggart turning into the moon didn’t happen. But it did. And it happened almost exactly like in the movie. Ron’s legless spider rolls in front of Harry. Harry gets ready. Lupin shouts “Here!” and jumps front of Harry. The boggart vanishes and the students look all around and finally spot a silvery white orb. Lupin dispenses of the boggart. (Later on, a student even wonders why Professor Lupin is afraid of crystal balls.) Which is why Harry says “why didn’t you let me fight it?” Then they have that conversation you quoted.
Yep good catch, I also noticed after the fact that when Harry is training to fight dementors, as he is passing out the boggart switches to a silvery orb for lupin.
@@VaultLorethat may be. I’ll pay attention on my next reread. But the time I’m talking about was in class in the chapter The Boggart in the Wardrobe. The movie follows it almost exactly.
@@VaultLoreI also wanted to say I really enjoyed the video. I’ve niticed that Ron says quite a few things that seem to foreshadow or even be almost prophetic. Now I’m thinking I’ve only noticed a few and I’ll be paying attention to things Ron says. Much more carefully.
big difference is in the book it doesnt get the chance to turn into a dementor because lupin thought voldemort was gonna appear. In the movies harry just freezes up because it turned into a dementor and lupin has to save him by getting in front of the boggart, what happens to the boggart when lupin uses ridiculous on the moon is different as well.
My favorite tidbit is in the first book, when Hagrid shows up on Privet Drive on the flying motorcycle with baby Harry. He mentions to Dumbledore and McGonagall that Sirius Black lent him the motorcycle. Looking back on it, it doesn't make much sense for Sirius Black, who had just sold out Harry's parents to Voldemort, to offer his motorcycle up for Hagrid to take Harry on. Unless Sirius actually had no part in that. It's not something you'd remember when reading Prisoner of Azkaban for the first time, but it's pretty clear to me now that Sirius was obviously never a bad guy.
You can also notice Dumbledore clearly worried when Sirius' bike is heard, but then when he sees Hagrid he is "sounding relieved". He was afraid of seeing Sirius, who he believed was a traitor and a murderer. And asks "No problems, were there?" when Hagrid mentions Sirius
@@Maria_Bar sirius wasnt convicted or even thought of as a murderer at that point though. Dumbledore didnt know who their secret keeper was, no one knew except black and the potters. It wasnt until after his alleged murders and trial did they think it was him. He was just relieved it was hagrid and not a third party that might get involved.
@@theccarbiter He didn't know about Peter, but he knew (or believed he knew, to be precise) it was Sirius, because 1st of all - he proposed to be the keeper himself and was involved in the Potters hiding, and 2nd - this was exactly Sirius' genius plan, to let everyone believe he was the secret keeper. And Dumbledore was of course among those people
@@theccarbiter And there was no trial btw. Sirius was sent to Azkaban right away, almost the next day to the events in Godric'c Hollow. Everything happed very fast.
The plot holes video came up on my feed a couple days ago and ever since i've binge watched all your harry potter videos and re discovered my childhood love for the series. I'd fall asleep to the audiobooks every night and was introduced to them around the age of 5 through the chamber of secrets movie. Don't stop making videos, these are great and i'll keep watching!
23:45 the ‚mars is bright tonight‘ comment is especially interesting, when you know that professor quirrels first name is ‚quirinus‘. Who is quirinus? You might ask. Quirinus is an alternative name to the roman/greek god of war, mars/ares. In a scene, where just a few moments prior, Quirrle sneaked though the woods, killing unicorns and drinking their blood to regain his power, possibly to ‚Shine brighter‘ in the sense of ‚being more active than usually‘, a magical being, capable of reading prophecies, talks about the mars. Maybe im interpreting too much into it, but maybe bane knew, that quirinus (mars) quirrel was the murderer of the unicorn.
Wow. I knew the centaurs actually answered Hagrid's questions in their own way, but I could never quite get what they really meant. This is exactly it!
@ to be honest, I don’t know how canon my interpretation is. Quirrels first name isn’t mentioned in the movies (but it was listed on IMDb before the movie came out) and it could be just an accidental connection.
@ by the way, if you’re interested in his name, ‘Quirrel’ is a mix of quiver and squirrel (to showcase how harmless he seems) , and ‘quirinus’ the god of war, is often portrayed with two faces on both sides of his head. So, ‘trouble maker war two face quivering squirrel’ fits perfectly into the my-name-is-what-I-am list of characters, with ‘snake boy evil believer’ ‘moon wolf man’ ‘big black dog man darkness’ and ‘owl goddess of wisdom Scottish lady’
1:03:46 the entire Lore of the DH’s is that whoever can unite all three becomes the Master of Death. Much like when Harry was able to obtain the Sorcerer’s/Philosopher’s Stone from the mirror of Erised (he wanted to have it, but not use it. Just keep it away from Voldemort, who was actively trying to subvert/overcome Death) Harry never really sought to reunite the Hallows for a nefarious purpose. In fact, he was most interested in the resurrection stone, because he had already had a special relationship with Death. Not only had he watched so many people who he loved be taken in by Death (‘like an old friend’), he was actually also a great descendant of Ignotus Peverell, the brother who had received Death’s Cloak of Invisibility. He was basically destined/fated to become the Master of Death because he wasn’t actually trying to live forever or beat Death, but instead he was trying to deliver Voldy to him.
"The chamber pots room" was mentioned in book 5 when Dobby told Harry about the Room of Requirement. It goes as follows- 'And if you really needed a bathroom," said Harry, suddenly remembering something Dumbledore had said at the Yule Ball the previous christmas, 'would it fill itself with chamber pots?'
I always figured Harry shocking Vernon in OOTP was just reflexive magic, kind of like him ending up on the roof to get away from Dudley's gang when he was younger. I don't know that it had anything to do with him being a Horcrux, and the fact that he wasn't a deliberate one does make a difference. It explains why he didn't affect those around him the way the locket later did. As for the blood of the enemy thing, I think even Voldemort hinted that someone else's blood might have completed the ritual, he just believed Harry's blood would give him the protection he wanted. One foreshadowing example you missed was Wormtail's death, hinted at all the way back in book four when Voldemort creates his silver hand. He delivers the line "May your loyalty never waver again, Wormtail." Then in DH when Wormtail seems on the point of letting Harry go, the hand turns on him and chokes him to death.
The Horcruxes and Occlumency I reckon to be more revisionism by Rowling. She never could have expected the books or movies to take off so she was just playing around with ambiguous concepts of telepathy and possession and then gave them and unique labels once she got to book 4-ish. It also explains why she went for werewolves instead of vampires for Lupin as it gave her more flexibility in future books.
with the Firenze and Bane thing from book 1 looking back I thought it might have been foreshadowing Harry's death to Voldemort in that very forest. They were upset that Firenze averted harry dying that night.
The scene where Vernon gets "shocked" for attacking Harry, I figured that was just his mom's protection shielding him. Since Vernon had become a threat to Harry, he got a VERY mild dose of whatever took Quirrell out as a warning
It became painfully clear in Philosopher's stone , and even much more in the following books that Dumbledore was not only aware of everything happening, but he was intentionally manipulating people into certain events happening. Cleary he was testing, and training Harry from the start. After Chamber Dumbledore had successfully indoctrinated Harry into total loyalty. Thus making Dumbledore's job easier. Whether it was hiring the perfect DADA teacher for the plot of each year, or crazy things like sending first yrs into a dark dangerous forest with a unicorn killer hanging around, or givingva 13 yr old a time turner to manipulate time because.....she needed time ...for extra classes? Like there wasn't a genuis wizard before Hermoine that never got one. From choosing Mad Eye the exact time Wormtail escaped, and Crouch Jr. escaped Askaban and kidnapped Moody. Certain things had to happen ,impossible, incredible things that would of changed the story if they didn't happen. He just happened to hire Slughorn the same yr they were seeking Horcruxes? Giving Harry , a friggen 1st yr one of the Deathly Hollows , so he could eventually find the mirror of Erised. I knew by POA that Dumbledore was directing everything and that Snape was a double agent. There are so many clues to this. The adults in this world are portrayed as inept, impulsive, and some outright evil.
I have long felt that both Petunia and Snape were let off easy at the end of the stories, (esp with the deleted scene where Petunia telling Harry she had lost a sister)... If either or both Snape and Petunia had truly loved Lilly they would not have treated her son (despite what they felt about James) anywhere as badly as they each did. Having Snape being a double spy doesn't clear him of his behavior towards Harry, he may have been brave but he was still a terrible person, and it wasn't just to Harry~ a teacher who winds up being a student's greatest fear, as with Neville, just shouldn't be allowed. Harry should never have named his son for him.
Yeah and even if they genuinly loved lily, that still would not excuse the abuse, in the slightest, a character can be relatable or sympathetic in one point, but still be terrible people overall. Its even quite common for parents and partners to love the child/partner they abuse . . . Does not make it any better Snapes love for lily does not change he is a pretty amoral ahole who delighted in cruelty towords kids passing along abuse he suffered from as a kid
In all honesty, I think they were originally very black & white one note boring characters who were just bad and mean, the first two books are very basic & made for children, it was just aunt bad, teacher bad, later on they needed character development and idk just didn’t pay off great, especially in the movies
I loved this theory from the Super Carlin Brothers. Basically, the centaurs have seen in the stars that Voldemort will kill Harry in the Forrest. They know that it will happen, but not when, so in philosopher’s stone, the other centaurs don’t want to interfere with the potential fate of Harry being being attacked by Voldemort on that night.
Wonder, how it would have gone dowm then Tbe difference is that Voldemort hasn't had a new body with Harry's blood in it So the Horcrux would have been destroyed alright, but Harry would hav e stayed dead
Dumbledore, Harry, and the Mirror of Erised: Dumbledore mentioned wanting a warm pair of socks. Lucius later gave Dobby a sock. Ron gives Dobby socks and on canon Dobby receives them for Christmas every year, graveside.
Another small part of foreshadowing I noticed was in the very first book when Harry gets Dumbledore's chocolate frog card, Ron says "I have six of him". Dumbledore then dies in the sixth book.
06:23 Not only Snape is said to be a mind reader, but "Harry forced himself to keep looking straight into those cold eyes" (PhS) - we learn later on that eye contact is crucial for legilimency. And such eye contact is in every book. The most hilarious one is in GoF: "Harry imagined picking up his cauldron, and sprinting to the front of the class, and bringing it down on Snape’s greasy head"
5:50 In an interview for the Chamber of secrets Movie, which was made around the time the 4th Book was released. She stated that a few scenes had to be done exactly Like in the Book (but she didnt say which), since they would be Important for the end of the Story. Looking back, it were Most certainly the scenes with the diary. So we can assume she had at least a Rough idea about Horkruxes, thus the Connection between Harry and Voldemort could also already been in the back of her Head.
You missed the confirmation that Hagrid knew ALL about horcruxes 1. 1st book " Thats NO ordinary scar Harry, you only get a scar like that from a curse....AND AN EVIL ONE AT THAT" Horcrux spells are inherently evil 2. Hagrid was IN SCHOOL with TOM RIDDLE Hagrid KNEW Riddle was a bad guy , cuz Riddle set Hagrid up for the death Myrtle By framing Aragog. Hagrid kept a weather eye on him thereafter, for sure 3.Obiviosly Hagrid finds out Riddle is doing shady stuff, maybe he hears him say he wants a spell to live forever who knows. But HAGRID TELLS DUMBLEDORE. HE maybe didnt know the word horcrux but HAGRID PUTS DUMBLEDORE ON THE TRAIL. 4.back to 1st book McGonagall asks where is Harry? DUMBLEDORE says Hagrids bringing him McGonagall says " u trust Hagrid with that? DUMBLEDORE says I Trust Hagrid with MY LIFE. HAGRID KNEW EVERYTHING and plays the oaf to throw off both sides
Hagrid could have known about what Riddle was up to anyway beforehand maybe he had a deal with Riddle I won't tell about your Death Eater We wanna Live Foever club You don't tell anyone about my BIG FUCKING SPIDER
Remus John Lupin... if you know your mythology you'd likely have seen the reveal about him right when we first get his name as it's a double-barrel shotgun blast when you know Lupin (or Lupine) is a term related to Wolves - Romulus & Remus, the twins who were raised by a she-*wolf* before growing up to build the first incarnation of Rome (named after Romulus).
18:31 Or, much more likely, he was talking about Mad-Eye Moody, who was actually Barty Crouch Jr. and Harry trusted as a friend too. You know, the one who actually did stab Harry in the back instead of Ron, who just had two fights with Harry along with brief falling outs like human friends often do. Backstabbing friends don't apologize and come back.
@VaultLore That's okay. I just don't like it when people go after Ron for simply being human. And you could make the argument the other way, too. But just to a lesser extent. Then again, that's the thing about divination. It never has one concrete meaning. It depends upon the interpreter. Which is why Hermione is so quick to dismiss its legitimacy as a magical art. Along with the fact she's not good at it, LOL.
@VaultLore Please let the new tv series do book Ron justice. Put him back at the level of the rest of the trio. Because he embodies love. That's all I ask! He deserves it!
Much of this wasn't a surprise to me, though I didn't read HP until 2021 and I'm in my late 50s. I think it takes an adult mind to understand that true foreshadowing is designed to leave you ignorant until the writer chooses otherwise, so don't beat your 10-year-old self up too much. I also think it takes an adult mind to understand Dumbledore. I wish people would look at the bigger picture regarding his actions and motives. Though I could write an essay, suffice it to say that if you are the chief enemy and you don't have an army at your disposal, you are forced to run a resistance organisation. in such circumstances, information and its dissemination becomes your primary weapon and safeguard. Group members cannot reveal,when captured, what they do not know. Timing then becomes critical: what to tell whom, and when to tell them. Did Dumbledore always get the timing right? No, of course not because he is human - for all that he is also a powerful wizard. I think the fandom has a big problem with this; they expect the chief good guy to also be perfect. Yet, Dumbledore, unlike many real human gbeings I know, is self-aware enough to admit his errors. He is also all too aware of the over-riding imperative: the war must be won at all costs. Everything else must be subjugate to that imperative if the world you know and those you care about are to be safe. He can't allow his growing affection for Harry to stand in its way no matter how much he may wish to. Voldemort activated the prophecy once he gave it credence, forcing Dumbledore and Harry to play their parts. Fanfic writer and Dumbledore sceptic, Perverse Idyll, put it this way: "Of course, it could be said in Dumbledore's defence that he'd been forced to play - and it hadn't been a game. If he'd lost, the broken trust of a teenage boy would have been the least of the ensuing disaster." I am thoroughly convinced that although HP began as a story for children, it certainly did not evolve that way. There are layers upon layers of nuance which I find fascinating. Thanks for yet another thought-provoking presentation. As a recent and older reader of HP it is all too easy for me to forget that waiting for new books to arrive would have produced a very different reading - at least initially.
I love your videos. You go and do these great deep dives into the source material and talk about things that I thought I was the only one to notice when I first read and then reread the books. The best part is that you aren’t smug about it and act like you think you are so much smarter than everyone else like some creators who talk about HP can be. Love the content and can’t wait to see more!
Thanks for the great comment! I am genuinely just a normal reader. Lots of things I probably get wrong along the way, but hopefully that’s part of the charm of the channel!
@ that is part of the charm is that you are just a fan and a normal reader just like the rest of us. Keep up the great work and you will have me for a sub as long as you are making great content
fun fact, when the order starts cleaning up grimmauld place, harry takes notice of a locket everyone tries to open, but nobody is able to. obvious what that foreshadows
Here's another "Ron foreshadowing" moment: after he and Harry look at Harry's tea leaves, taking his own dream journal/predictions but *applying* them to Harry foreshadows the 3 tasks (here the "friend" is BCJ)
See, Ron is so logical. He can actually break the 4th wall in his foreshadowing! LOL! 😂 Also wanted to mention Harry was pretty good at reading Ron, too. "So you are gonna suffer, but be happy." When he saw the sideways cross for Ron. Meaning losing Fred along with the Hortacrux stuff, but getting to be with Hermione and having a family of his own in the end. It's all about perspective.
In the half blood prince Dumbledore and Harry discuss about the diary and the fact that Voldemort was so reckless with it. Dumbledore comes to the conclusion that Voldemort gave the diary to Lucius because he wanted the chamber of secrets to be opened. He had so many horcruxes that the diary didn't play a big role as he later made Nagini one. The room of requirement line from Dumbledore was also intentional because when Dobby tells Harry about it, Harry remembers this line from Dumbledore, and tells Hermione that it was Dumbledore who told him about it in the first place, when Hermione doubted Dobby's idea.
Still - at this point Lucius was still considered his most loyal male follower I mean, evidenced by the fact Voldy gave HIM, not Barty his frigging soul fragment Why exactly did Lucius treat it so badly? In fact, why did he give it away in the first place? The Malfoys are one of the sacred 28; the Ministry wouldn't bother them so much He could have just temporarily given it to the Blacks, his in -laws
To bolster your theory about the Christmas gifts foreshadowing the deathly hollows: toothpick = elder wand tissue = cloak of invisiblity 50 pence = resurrection stone - but why? Also a stretch, as publishing a book takes some time, but hear me out: The first Harry Potter book was released in 1997, where the first present of the 50 pence is given (never read the books, this is what google told me and actually the theory would be more sound if it was in a later book) In 1997 an incredibly rare 50 pence coin was released into circulation, having freesia on one side. Freesia is associated to mean trust and friendship, but also a deeply rooted love. The resurrection stone is meant to bring back a loved person. A person you trusted. Like characterized by a freesia. Maybe the Dursleys wanted to be cheap by just sending 50 pence, not realizing how valuable that coin actually was? Just my little theory to fill that gap =)
There's a pretty great one that foreshadows a big plot point in Order of the Phoenix. Harry is noticing his increasing connection to Voldemort, and is trying to do his coursework while heavily distracted by thoughts of what Voldemort is after. The book he's reading, which it describes him as taking in not a word of, _precisely_ spells out exactly Voldemort's end goal in this book. It's a book about a plant that can be used to cause "confusion and befuddlement", and is best used in situations "where the wizard is desirous of producing hot-headedness and recklessness." Voldy's plan is to use their newly-discovered connection to trick Harry into thinking Sirius is in danger and in need of rescuing, causing him to abandon all caution and come STRAIGHT to the Ministry, walking right into a trap. And to think Harry might have noticed it if he wasn't so confused and befuddled.
I don't get Voldemort cursed the ring and kill whoever puts it on, but he didn't do the same with the locket to protect the horcrux with good measure. Then he would have eliminated the trio wandering around in the woods hiding while they look for more horcruxes and a way to figure out how to destroy them, or at least Hermione and Ron Harry would have been immune since he had one in him already. Also should have cursed the cup of Hufflepuff whoever tries to take it dies.
Just saying, as far as Snapes plot goes, she at least had that front day 1 cause she was very specific on who she wanted for that role and even told Alan Rickman the secret that Snape loved Lily from the very beginning specifically so he would perfect that character. So from the very 1st book, Alan Rickman (as Snape) had all that plot to go off of which you can really absorb when watch the films. The very first scene Harry speaks to Snape in the book and film is a secret Victorian flower message that said something like "I bitterly regret Lily's death".
57:22 Regarding the kidnapping, one of the most horrific theories I’ve heard is based on the unfounded/undebunkable claim that Bertha was pregnant. After she was killed & made horcrux fuel, they took said theoretical foetus & Moldy possessed it.
56:09 Foreshadowing is just planting seeds for something that pays off later on. Nothing about it implies that it needs to be able to be guessed by the reader ahead of time.
I really appreciate the effort you put into these videos. From your narration, to presentation style, to editing, it's so well done, and never over the top. In regards to the bit about the boggart and how powerful a Voldemort version of it would be, I rather wondered what form it would take. Would it just turn into the two-faced Quirrell? Or maybe just the shadowy-cloaked form we see in the Forbidden Forest in the Philosophers stone? I also figured that, seeing as how feared Voldemort was to the general wizarding world, I thought for sure it would be the #1 fear of many of the children. But that begs another question- would the boggart only be able to turn into something you've physically seen? Boggarts are such a cool part of the lore for me, and I love the idea that Moody is (possibly) the only person who can see the "natural" form of a boggart, as his magical eye allows him to see through solid objects.
I have a hard time believing she did a lot of foreshadowing in the first book for some of these things that happened in book 7, but I think it’s totally reasonable to believe she foreshadowed things that happened 1-2 books later, especially as she got further into the books and knew more and more where she was going and as she became a better author
Honestly one major oversight that dumbledore had for sure is somehow not recognizing the critical danger a vanishing cabinet could present being inside hogwarts like that. That aside I love how some of the most simple magical items and rules in Harry Potter are some of the most powerful and underestimated. I know its obvious but I just appreciate it such as the Elder Wand disarming rule or the sheer power of the vanishing cabinet.
To answer your question about planning ahead: I read somewhere that Rowling had at least a version of the ending planned when she began on the first book. Though obviously who was in the ending and who wasn't changed throughout the series, but the basics were there, so it's possible that the horcruxes were already a thing.
When Ron looks in the mirror he sees himself as all these great things for Gryfindor. While some of them werent what he saw exactly, he says "im head boy, i have the quidditch cup and im quidditch captain too". Later on, he goes on to help Gryfindor win and is hoisted on their shoulders as they sang "Weasley is our King". He also eventually becomes a Prefect.
Could be wrong, but I thought the fetus thing was Voldemort prime’s soul? As in, Voldemort prime and Harry were both in kings cross, but prime’s soul was so mangled that he appeared as a gross fetus
I listened through all of them earlier this year and i surprisingly noticed most of these, but that's of course with seeing all of the movies countless times
To be honest to me it doesn't matter if the foreshadowing was intentional or not. For me, the foreshadowing is there and that makes the books even more magical 🥰
The foe glass foreshadowing is one I never even considered until you brought it up. That's crazy. Even through my re reads I always just attributed it to the fact that Barty is the main viliian of that book so of course Snape and the others would be in the foe glass since they are the good guys for that book.
12:10 what you mean shot in the dark isn't it the main feature of the dumbledore fork of snape / lilly protection if theres harry's blood around him these protected , better than horcruxes , if voldy has his blood attached to earth he's doing what the dursleys being doing since ever
This might be a stretch, but I think the ending of the first book when Gryffindor wins the house cup foreshadows the destruction of Voldemort’s horcruxes. Or at least who participates in doing so. Dumbledore announces the points, just as he destroys the ring and presents Harry with the knowledge about horcruxes in the first place. Then we have the trio, who obviously destroyed all of the other ones besides Nagini. And who destroys the last horcrux? Neville, and he’s also the one who was awarded 10 points to help them win the house cup. We always knew Harry, Ron, Hermione, and Dumbledore were going to be important as the series went on. So why throw Neville in there randomly? I believe it was all hinting at his rise and hidden bravery.
Hey, don't make the same mistake everybody else did - under estimate Wormy But, yeah, the Blacks would have been an obvious choice - you know, his frikking PARENTS -IN -LAW just put the diary into the vault temporarily until the new Dark Objects hunter unit has tired themselves out
The centaurs knew Harry would die by Voldemort, specifically in the Forbidden Forest, which is why they get so pissed when Firenz saves him. They were waiting for that moment because it was the moment they were to officially join the war. Harry dies in the Forbidden Forest in book 7 and upon his awakening, the Centaurs join the battle as they're supposed to, which they saw in the stars. Dumbledore can read the stars a bit too, Firenz is an ally of his afterall and the centaurs as a whole salute him upon his death. In book one, it specifies Dumbledore has a watch that has 12 planets on it instead of numbers.
@TeylaDex yes. But the mirror was not in the room of requirement that was presenting itself as an empty classroom, it was just in an actual empty classroom. Harry does not find the room of requirement in sorcerers stone
I think it’s pretty shocking that not a single other student had their fear be Voldemort. There definitely had to be a few at least that grew up hearing the scary things that he did
Yeah, but he vanished when most of them was just a year or two old Do they even know what he looked like? He's an obscure figure; you may as well be a 2000's kid with Ted Bundy or Charles Manson as your biggest fear
@ I thought that at first, but everyone is afraid to say his name, and it is not unlikely that there would be at least a few parents that had told their kids all the scary things that had happened, and that he had just disappeared. There was no confirmation that he was dead. There has to be some kids that are afraid of Voldemort more than anything haha
Am I crazy or did you not mention Harry finding Rowena's diadem in the room of requirement when he hid the potions book? That's like one of the most obvious ones
@@VaultLore I watched it in parts and didn't remember if you mentioned it or not. That one is the one I remember more vividly, the first time I read the books when I was 14 that was a huge "Oh shit" moment lmao
@@L251125 theres no way you picked that up on first read, but disregarding that - you said it yourself its 'the most obvious one'. Why would Vault waste time telling us the things we already know?
@@c4ctusc4ctusc4ctus I did, and I think it's not a stretch to believe that. Especially if one reads them back to back. And the point of the video is to point them out, I don't know what your problem is.
A weird numerology thing I noticed in the bit about the presents being representative of the deathly hallows: - The 50 pence piece was in book 1 and is a circle, which has 1 "side" - The toothpick was given in the second book and has 2 sides (if you picture it as a line) - The tissue is given in the 4th book and tissues are squares which have 4 sides
So, basicall y like squid game? •The stone (round) no edges - least useful, least satisfactory, least healthy Hallow (Cadmus, you suck) Lowest hierachy •The Wand (pointy) two edges - mo re useful, more powerful, more desirable against death (You go, antioch) Middle hierachy • the cloa k (at least four edges) - most useful against "death", impenatrable, untracable, most durable, badass Highest hierachy
I dont remember if this is headcanon or foreshadowing. But in book 1 the classroom that harry stumbles on to find the mirror of erised. When trying to find it again im almost certain follows how you get into the room of requirement
Horcrux were not after thought or later addition to the idea- because voldy died because of spell rebound but still he was alive that needed some plot to make him alive and he is main villain so his super power would be actually to the writer. voldy was not just powerful wizard he was literally immortal until all horcrux are not destroyed and if horcrux was not there then dumbledore would have simply taken care of voldy anyday.
24:45 No, itʼs talking about neither. Itʼs talking about how the heavens foretell Voldemort killing Harry in that very forest, on a night when both of them are in it. 56:30 They say pretty explicitly in GoF that pretty much anyone who still hates him would do, but he wanted to use Harry specifically.
When reading Order for the first time I remember thinking they would return to the hole where the Devil Snare was under fluffy to and train where the either the chess set was or the room where the mirror and stone were hidden. But I guess the room of requirement was cooler.
One curious thing in regards to the room of requirement is a line the PC game of Philosopher's Stone, right at the start. Dumbledore greets Harry (aka the player) and tells him that Hogwarts is full of secrets. He then goes on to recount a story of finding a room full of Chocolate Frogs which later turned into a room full of firecrabs. And I realized later that that line sounds very similar to the line used in Goblet of Fire, so I'm wondering if the game developers were referencing it (was book 4 already out at the time?) or if someone close to Rowing, or even Rowling herself, wrote it for the game. The latter seems a bit odd as there is no known record of Rowling being involved in the games. But it is a curious one.
Don't know if it has been said by another commenter but Harry telling the talking turban that he didn't want to join Slytherin is just an obvious call back to the last talking hat Harry encountered. Rowling was probably just trying to show that the fact the sorting hat wanted to put him in slytherin was still plaguing harry's mind.
i can imagine that JKR had the idea of room of requirement as a funny element of magic castle, but found a good storyline use for this idea later and developed it. it happened to me a few times, when i make a mention of somethuing in my story because i think it would be a fun detail, and later i find a great use for this detail
I currently read the books to my son and I keep finding little details. We read the part with Filch mentioning Peeves breaking the vanishing cabinet just yesterday. So Fred and George are kinda responsible for Dumbledore's death :/
38:00 his name is also Remus, and during the war his code name for the radio show was Romulus, the names of famous lycanthrope twins from Greek mythology.
If we are to assume that the idea of a horcrux was there from the start, Voldemort being flippant with its use is understandable, it is a ridiculously hard to destroy item and Voldemort was always over confident, so he had no real fear of harry a student figuring out what it is, or if he did why would Voldemort assume he could get access to one of the few things that can damage it
What about the foreshadowing that JK missed? Obvious foreshadowing without a payoff. The position of DADA teacher was cursed. A new teacher every year. Harry shows real aptitude for teaching DADA to his fellow students. Harry defeats V and goes on to be..... an auror?! Working for the ministry that made his life hell for 7 books? Not the final DADA teacher, breaking the curse on the position? Working for the place he called home, that was a respite away from the Dursleys. Leaving it open to have future books about him and students he's teaching? Huge missed opportunity.
I will forever complain about this. "Hogwarts is my home" AND IT COULD'VE LITERALLY BEEN HIS HOME You're telling me he FINALLY has a family, and he sends them off to school 7/8ths of the year? He would absolutely want to be around them as much as possible, and being a teacher he could see them all the time. What better ending than for him to finally get a break from hunting and have peace? He could even become a Quidditch coach. Even having him become a pro Quidditch player would've been a better career for him than an auror 🤦🏻♀️ Auror would've fit Ron better (alone) since he was always wanting to be in a position of power. Just look at their Mirror of Erised - Ron as Head Boy, Harry with family.
The description of the cabinets don't match. One is a large black cabinet, the other is a large black and gold cabinet. So I wouldn't call that foreshadowing. I would just say that is trying to find a link where none exists.
I remember reading the first book in the 4th grade and then the movie was coming out that next school year and it was this big thing cause I had gotten into the books… she only had the first 4 books out at the time, right? And she released books 5-7 after the movies were already in production. I think because of this I always assumed the ending wasn’t planned from the beginning. Like.. it wasn’t a state secret or anything at the time?
I think Hagrid is perceptive. One might even say he pays more attention to biology and life with his love of animals. But i dont think he knew about the Horcruxes
page 394 referencing something specific in the book would be very difficult to pull off as some editions of the book have more or less pages than others. in my copy of Prisoner of Azkaban, page 394 begins partway through Sirius explaining how he managed not to go insane while he was in Azkaban.
Ron says in Divination "You're gonna die but be happy about it?"
Basically everything Ron says actually. He is strangely prophetic all along. And then gets attacked by the brains.
In the books, that's actually Harry's prediction for Ron. The movies flipped it. And more specifically, the line is "So you're going to suffer but be very happy."
I noticed that
"Suffering, trials, happy about it"
Ron's Quidditch Career
The 13 to dine thing also comes up twice again. At Harry's first night in 12 Grimmauld Place, there are 13 people present for dinner and Sirius is the first to rise from his seat. Then in DH, there are 13 present to drink a toast in memory of Moody and Remus is the first to leave.
Oh nice! I didn’t find those ones
Lavender Brown mentioned in the book - "I wonder why is prof Lupin scared of crystal balls?"
Cause he knew Sybill T could yeet that sht... just ask greyback what happens to a werewolf with a crystal ball
Aside a few exceptions, Rowling foreshadows purposefully for each specific book, but it usually doesn't go beyond said book. What she does more than that is take what is established and build on it giving the impression it was planned all along i.e. the vanishing cabinet.
Imo, her best bit of foreshadowing was the "glint in Dumbledore's eyes" in Goblet of Fire with the payoff in Hallows. That bit was brilliant.
🤓
When the centaurs said that Harry was supposed to die in that forest in book 1 was brilliant too
@damgful sorry I didn't mean to send the nerd emoji I meant to send another one. Can't remember which but I think they were next to each other at the time
@@prodmoira
You could have just edited your comment.
Hater moment
When hiding the half blood prince's book, Harry does the following:
"Would he be able to find this spot again amidst all this junk? Seizing the chipped bust of an ugly old warlock from on top of a nearby crate, he stood it on top of the cupboard where the book was now hidden, perched a dusty old wig and a tarnished tiara on the statue’s head to make it more distinctive, then sprinted back through the alleyways of hidden junk as fast as he could go, back to the door, back out onto the corridor, where he slammed the door behind him, and it turned at once back into stone."
That Tiara is the Diadem of Ravenclaw.
i can already see, x amount of years in the future, when the hbo show is on the HBP, the shot is going to linger on that tiara for slightly too long. because subtlety is dead
If I were Harry, I’d made a copy and not tell Hermione.
@@onefinegent i imagine many younger viewers experiencing HP for the first time with that show won't be able to put the pieces together and will only realize the foreshadowing later on
@@CJ-im2uuthis is why Harry’s not a Ravenclaw
- Each and every Trelawney's prediction came true. From Lavander's rabbit to the Lightning-Struck Tower.
- Objects and potions mentioned by Snape during Harry's 1st lesson come back later.
- We see Dumbledore's patronus in the Goblet of fire, though we don't know about them till book 5.
- Harry hears the sound of apparation a few times, before he learns about it. He mistakes it for the sound of a car muffler popping.
- A lot of name drops!
- The list goes on endlessly
I've noticed myself or learned about all the foreshadowings you mention, and I enjoyed the video nonetheless. I absolutely love the triumphant gleam in Dumbledore's eyes and Petunia's subtle mention of Snape. Bloody brilliant writing.
22:45 I think what's actually happening is Firenze getting in trouble for getting in between Harry and Voldemort. Centaurs can see into the future looking at the stars and planets, yet the only problem is.. they aren't always very accurate to the date, meaning they could be off by a few years. What the centaurs thaught they where witnessing what happened at the end of book 7, Voldemort killing Harry in the forbidden forest, ending the war, and eventually ending voldemort. Meaning the very end of the series was foreshadowed in book 1.
Regarding Horcruxes, they don’t really exist until book 6. From a writing standpoint if they existed earlier they would be used as a Macguffin or red herring earlier. Tom Riddle’s diary is a retcon, sort of like Loki’s Scepter, the tesseract, and the aether becoming infinity stones in the MCU.
The concept of Voldemort being a repeatable villain and a hard sumofabitch to kill is obviously early on and harry having a part of Voldemort in him is, but the exact mechanism isn’t figured out until later.
Agreed
Only the Infinity Stones weren't a Mcguffin or a retcon. The Infinity Saga was established in the first "The Avengers" movie if I'm not wrong. The "Infinity Stones" storyline existed for decades before the movies. The moment one appeared, the story was already written, and it was being adapted.
The Harry Potter series books were the original story. It wasn't the most creative in the world, and they had their own problems, but we can not say it wasn't one of the kind pop moments, like the original Infinity Gauntlet storyline in the comics.
That's why even before the "Multiverse Saga" was announced, we were considering which story the MCU would adapt next. Starting with WandaVision and the quasi adaptation of "House of M" for comic fans was a big giveaway.
nah the diary is a much better retcon than the infinity stones. It fits much more and the idea was built upon from the basis of the diary. The infinity stones were thought of as an idea and then placed onto those items because yeah it kinda makes sense. No expansion was done on them like the diary and other horcruxes.
The centaurs talk about how the planets mean harry should be killed by Voldemort in the Forrest in the chapter “the forest” book 1. Only later in “the forest again” in book 7 does harry finally die in the forest. They thought they got in the way of fate in that first chapter. But in book 5 Firenze talks about how centaurs predictions could be over huge periods of time. So they had the correct prediction but the wrong date by 7 years…
Just to correct the record… You said the scene in the movie with the boggart turning into the moon didn’t happen. But it did. And it happened almost exactly like in the movie. Ron’s legless spider rolls in front of Harry. Harry gets ready. Lupin shouts “Here!” and jumps front of Harry. The boggart vanishes and the students look all around and finally spot a silvery white orb. Lupin dispenses of the boggart. (Later on, a student even wonders why Professor Lupin is afraid of crystal balls.) Which is why Harry says “why didn’t you let me fight it?” Then they have that conversation you quoted.
Yep good catch, I also noticed after the fact that when Harry is training to fight dementors, as he is passing out the boggart switches to a silvery orb for lupin.
@@VaultLorethat may be. I’ll pay attention on my next reread. But the time I’m talking about was in class in the chapter The Boggart in the Wardrobe. The movie follows it almost exactly.
@@VaultLoreI also wanted to say I really enjoyed the video. I’ve niticed that Ron says quite a few things that seem to foreshadow or even be almost prophetic. Now I’m thinking I’ve only noticed a few and I’ll be paying attention to things Ron says. Much more carefully.
The constant foreshadower. Thanks for watching!
big difference is in the book it doesnt get the chance to turn into a dementor because lupin thought voldemort was gonna appear. In the movies harry just freezes up because it turned into a dementor and lupin has to save him by getting in front of the boggart, what happens to the boggart when lupin uses ridiculous on the moon is different as well.
My favorite tidbit is in the first book, when Hagrid shows up on Privet Drive on the flying motorcycle with baby Harry.
He mentions to Dumbledore and McGonagall that Sirius Black lent him the motorcycle. Looking back on it, it doesn't make much sense for Sirius Black, who had just sold out Harry's parents to Voldemort, to offer his motorcycle up for Hagrid to take Harry on. Unless Sirius actually had no part in that.
It's not something you'd remember when reading Prisoner of Azkaban for the first time, but it's pretty clear to me now that Sirius was obviously never a bad guy.
You can also notice Dumbledore clearly worried when Sirius' bike is heard, but then when he sees Hagrid he is "sounding relieved". He was afraid of seeing Sirius, who he believed was a traitor and a murderer. And asks "No problems, were there?" when Hagrid mentions Sirius
@@Maria_Bar sirius wasnt convicted or even thought of as a murderer at that point though. Dumbledore didnt know who their secret keeper was, no one knew except black and the potters. It wasnt until after his alleged murders and trial did they think it was him. He was just relieved it was hagrid and not a third party that might get involved.
@@theccarbiter He didn't know about Peter, but he knew (or believed he knew, to be precise) it was Sirius, because 1st of all - he proposed to be the keeper himself and was involved in the Potters hiding, and 2nd - this was exactly Sirius' genius plan, to let everyone believe he was the secret keeper. And Dumbledore was of course among those people
@@theccarbiter And there was no trial btw. Sirius was sent to Azkaban right away, almost the next day to the events in Godric'c Hollow. Everything happed very fast.
@ you’re right there was no trial, I meant after his sentencing. He still had no way to know Sirius did them in or what the situation was.
The plot holes video came up on my feed a couple days ago and ever since i've binge watched all your harry potter videos and re discovered my childhood love for the series. I'd fall asleep to the audiobooks every night and was introduced to them around the age of 5 through the chamber of secrets movie. Don't stop making videos, these are great and i'll keep watching!
This is exactly what happened to me
Haha thank you all for watching! Glad you’re liking them!
Same! I love some good Harry Potter content!
Jim Dale narrates me through work all the time 😂
23:45 the ‚mars is bright tonight‘ comment is especially interesting, when you know that professor quirrels first name is ‚quirinus‘. Who is quirinus? You might ask. Quirinus is an alternative name to the roman/greek god of war, mars/ares. In a scene, where just a few moments prior, Quirrle sneaked though the woods, killing unicorns and drinking their blood to regain his power, possibly to ‚Shine brighter‘ in the sense of ‚being more active than usually‘, a magical being, capable of reading prophecies, talks about the mars. Maybe im interpreting too much into it, but maybe bane knew, that quirinus (mars) quirrel was the murderer of the unicorn.
Wow. I knew the centaurs actually answered Hagrid's questions in their own way, but I could never quite get what they really meant. This is exactly it!
@ to be honest, I don’t know how canon my interpretation is. Quirrels first name isn’t mentioned in the movies (but it was listed on IMDb before the movie came out) and it could be just an accidental connection.
@@Charles-r9f6o I don't believe in accidents when it comes to Rowling writing 😄
@ by the way, if you’re interested in his name, ‘Quirrel’ is a mix of quiver and squirrel (to showcase how harmless he seems) , and ‘quirinus’ the god of war, is often portrayed with two faces on both sides of his head. So, ‘trouble maker war two face quivering squirrel’ fits perfectly into the my-name-is-what-I-am list of characters, with ‘snake boy evil believer’ ‘moon wolf man’ ‘big black dog man darkness’ and ‘owl goddess of wisdom Scottish lady’
Let's not forget that Scabbers bit Goyle's hand after Malfoy made a distasteful remark about Harry's parents.
1:03:46 the entire Lore of the DH’s is that whoever can unite all three becomes the Master of Death.
Much like when Harry was able to obtain the Sorcerer’s/Philosopher’s Stone from the mirror of Erised (he wanted to have it, but not use it. Just keep it away from Voldemort, who was actively trying to subvert/overcome Death) Harry never really sought to reunite the Hallows for a nefarious purpose. In fact, he was most interested in the resurrection stone, because he had already had a special relationship with Death. Not only had he watched so many people who he loved be taken in by Death (‘like an old friend’), he was actually also a great descendant of Ignotus Peverell, the brother who had received Death’s Cloak of Invisibility.
He was basically destined/fated to become the Master of Death because he wasn’t actually trying to live forever or beat Death, but instead he was trying to deliver Voldy to him.
"The chamber pots room" was mentioned in book 5 when Dobby told Harry about the Room of Requirement. It goes as follows-
'And if you really needed a bathroom," said Harry, suddenly remembering something Dumbledore had said at the Yule Ball the previous christmas, 'would it fill itself with chamber pots?'
I think that was Dumbledore trying to hint at Harry where he could solve the egg puzzle.
Hagrid probably had heard it from Dumbledore, that something keeps Voldemort alive
I always figured Harry shocking Vernon in OOTP was just reflexive magic, kind of like him ending up on the roof to get away from Dudley's gang when he was younger. I don't know that it had anything to do with him being a Horcrux, and the fact that he wasn't a deliberate one does make a difference. It explains why he didn't affect those around him the way the locket later did. As for the blood of the enemy thing, I think even Voldemort hinted that someone else's blood might have completed the ritual, he just believed Harry's blood would give him the protection he wanted. One foreshadowing example you missed was Wormtail's death, hinted at all the way back in book four when Voldemort creates his silver hand. He delivers the line "May your loyalty never waver again, Wormtail." Then in DH when Wormtail seems on the point of letting Harry go, the hand turns on him and chokes him to death.
The Horcruxes and Occlumency I reckon to be more revisionism by Rowling. She never could have expected the books or movies to take off so she was just playing around with ambiguous concepts of telepathy and possession and then gave them and unique labels once she got to book 4-ish. It also explains why she went for werewolves instead of vampires for Lupin as it gave her more flexibility in future books.
Hater moment
with the Firenze and Bane thing from book 1 looking back I thought it might have been foreshadowing Harry's death to Voldemort in that very forest. They were upset that Firenze averted harry dying that night.
There is also a connection between the chapter names."The Forbidden Forest" and "The Forest Again".
The scene where Vernon gets "shocked" for attacking Harry, I figured that was just his mom's protection shielding him. Since Vernon had become a threat to Harry, he got a VERY mild dose of whatever took Quirrell out as a warning
It became painfully clear in Philosopher's stone , and even much more in the following books that Dumbledore was not only aware of everything happening, but he was intentionally manipulating people into certain events happening. Cleary he was testing, and training Harry from the start. After Chamber Dumbledore had successfully indoctrinated Harry into total loyalty. Thus making Dumbledore's job easier. Whether it was hiring the perfect DADA teacher for the plot of each year, or crazy things like sending first yrs into a dark dangerous forest with a unicorn killer hanging around, or givingva 13 yr old a time turner to manipulate time because.....she needed time ...for extra classes? Like there wasn't a genuis wizard before Hermoine that never got one. From choosing Mad Eye the exact time Wormtail escaped, and Crouch Jr. escaped Askaban and kidnapped Moody. Certain things had to happen ,impossible, incredible things that would of changed the story if they didn't happen. He just happened to hire Slughorn the same yr they were seeking Horcruxes? Giving Harry , a friggen 1st yr one of the Deathly Hollows , so he could eventually find the mirror of Erised. I knew by POA that Dumbledore was directing everything and that Snape was a double agent. There are so many clues to this. The adults in this world are portrayed as inept, impulsive, and some outright evil.
'You DID do the thing properly, didn't you?' - Dumbledore to Harry in the hospital wing after he tells him he learned about Nicholas Flamel
I have long felt that both Petunia and Snape were let off easy at the end of the stories, (esp with the deleted scene where Petunia telling Harry she had lost a sister)...
If either or both Snape and Petunia had truly loved Lilly they would not have treated her son (despite what they felt about James) anywhere as badly as they each did.
Having Snape being a double spy doesn't clear him of his behavior towards Harry, he may have been brave but he was still a terrible person, and it wasn't just to Harry~ a teacher who winds up being a student's greatest fear, as with Neville, just shouldn't be allowed.
Harry should never have named his son for him.
Yeah and even if they genuinly loved lily, that still would not excuse the abuse, in the slightest, a character can be relatable or sympathetic in one point, but still be terrible people overall. Its even quite common for parents and partners to love the child/partner they abuse . . . Does not make it any better
Snapes love for lily does not change he is a pretty amoral ahole who delighted in cruelty towords kids passing along abuse he suffered from as a kid
In all honesty, I think they were originally very black & white one note boring characters who were just bad and mean, the first two books are very basic & made for children, it was just aunt bad, teacher bad, later on they needed character development and idk just didn’t pay off great, especially in the movies
Thumbs up and comment to help the algorithm because this is clearly a human production! Well done and keep at it!
Thank you!!
I loved this theory from the Super Carlin Brothers. Basically, the centaurs have seen in the stars that Voldemort will kill Harry in the Forrest. They know that it will happen, but not when, so in philosopher’s stone, the other centaurs don’t want to interfere with the potential fate of Harry being being attacked by Voldemort on that night.
Wonder, how it would have gone dowm then
Tbe difference is that Voldemort hasn't had a new body with Harry's blood in it
So the Horcrux would have been destroyed alright, but Harry would hav e stayed dead
Dumbledore, Harry, and the Mirror of Erised: Dumbledore mentioned wanting a warm pair of socks. Lucius later gave Dobby a sock. Ron gives Dobby socks and on canon Dobby receives them for Christmas every year, graveside.
Another small part of foreshadowing I noticed was in the very first book when Harry gets Dumbledore's chocolate frog card, Ron says "I have six of him". Dumbledore then dies in the sixth book.
😳🤔
06:23 Not only Snape is said to be a mind reader, but "Harry forced himself to keep looking straight into those cold eyes" (PhS) - we learn later on that eye contact is crucial for legilimency. And such eye contact is in every book. The most hilarious one is in GoF: "Harry imagined picking up his cauldron, and sprinting to the front of the class, and bringing it down on Snape’s greasy head"
In the moment Bellatrix was introduced I knew Sirius would die by her hand. Reason? Astronomy and star maps.
5:50
In an interview for the Chamber of secrets Movie, which was made around the time the 4th Book was released. She stated that a few scenes had to be done exactly Like in the Book (but she didnt say which), since they would be Important for the end of the Story. Looking back, it were Most certainly the scenes with the diary. So we can assume she had at least a Rough idea about Horkruxes, thus the Connection between Harry and Voldemort could also already been in the back of her Head.
55:00 Slughorn frowns because he recognises the ring from Tom wearing it at school, and their chat after the Slug Club dinner
You missed the confirmation that Hagrid knew ALL about horcruxes
1. 1st book " Thats NO ordinary scar Harry, you only get a scar like that from a curse....AND AN EVIL ONE AT THAT" Horcrux spells are inherently evil
2. Hagrid was IN SCHOOL with TOM RIDDLE
Hagrid KNEW Riddle was a bad guy , cuz Riddle set Hagrid up for the death Myrtle
By framing Aragog. Hagrid kept a weather eye on him thereafter, for sure
3.Obiviosly Hagrid finds out Riddle is doing shady stuff, maybe he hears him say he wants a spell to live forever who knows. But HAGRID TELLS DUMBLEDORE.
HE maybe didnt know the word horcrux but HAGRID PUTS DUMBLEDORE ON THE TRAIL.
4.back to 1st book McGonagall asks where is Harry?
DUMBLEDORE says Hagrids bringing him
McGonagall says " u trust Hagrid with that?
DUMBLEDORE says
I Trust Hagrid with MY LIFE.
HAGRID KNEW EVERYTHING and plays the oaf to throw off both sides
Hagrid could have known about what Riddle was up to anyway beforehand maybe he had a deal with Riddle
I won't tell about your Death Eater We wanna Live Foever club
You don't tell anyone about my BIG FUCKING SPIDER
Remus John Lupin... if you know your mythology you'd likely have seen the reveal about him right when we first get his name as it's a double-barrel shotgun blast when you know Lupin (or Lupine) is a term related to Wolves - Romulus & Remus, the twins who were raised by a she-*wolf* before growing up to build the first incarnation of Rome (named after Romulus).
I read somewhere "He might as well be called Wolfy McFullMoon" 😂😂😂😂
18:31 Or, much more likely, he was talking about Mad-Eye Moody, who was actually Barty Crouch Jr. and Harry trusted as a friend too. You know, the one who actually did stab Harry in the back instead of Ron, who just had two fights with Harry along with brief falling outs like human friends often do. Backstabbing friends don't apologize and come back.
🤷🏼♂️
@VaultLore That's okay. I just don't like it when people go after Ron for simply being human. And you could make the argument the other way, too. But just to a lesser extent. Then again, that's the thing about divination. It never has one concrete meaning. It depends upon the interpreter. Which is why Hermione is so quick to dismiss its legitimacy as a magical art. Along with the fact she's not good at it, LOL.
#justiceforron
@VaultLore Please let the new tv series do book Ron justice. Put him back at the level of the rest of the trio. Because he embodies love. That's all I ask! He deserves it!
Much of this wasn't a surprise to me, though I didn't read HP until 2021 and I'm in my late 50s. I think it takes an adult mind to understand that true foreshadowing is designed to leave you ignorant until the writer chooses otherwise, so don't beat your 10-year-old self up too much.
I also think it takes an adult mind to understand Dumbledore. I wish people would look at the bigger picture regarding his actions and motives. Though I could write an essay, suffice it to say that if you are the chief enemy and you don't have an army at your disposal, you are forced to run a resistance organisation. in such circumstances, information and its dissemination becomes your primary weapon and safeguard. Group members cannot reveal,when captured, what they do not know. Timing then becomes critical: what to tell whom, and when to tell them. Did Dumbledore always get the timing right? No, of course not because he is human - for all that he is also a powerful wizard. I think the fandom has a big problem with this; they expect the chief good guy to also be perfect. Yet, Dumbledore, unlike many real human gbeings I know, is self-aware enough to admit his errors. He is also all too aware of the over-riding imperative: the war must be won at all costs. Everything else must be subjugate to that imperative if the world you know and those you care about are to be safe. He can't allow his growing affection for Harry to stand in its way no matter how much he may wish to. Voldemort activated the prophecy once he gave it credence, forcing Dumbledore and Harry to play their parts.
Fanfic writer and Dumbledore sceptic, Perverse Idyll, put it this way: "Of course, it could be said in Dumbledore's defence that he'd been forced to play - and it hadn't been a game. If he'd lost, the broken trust of a teenage boy would have been the least of the ensuing disaster."
I am thoroughly convinced that although HP began as a story for children, it certainly did not evolve that way. There are layers upon layers of nuance which I find fascinating. Thanks for yet another thought-provoking presentation. As a recent and older reader of HP it is all too easy for me to forget that waiting for new books to arrive would have produced a very different reading - at least initially.
I love your videos. You go and do these great deep dives into the source material and talk about things that I thought I was the only one to notice when I first read and then reread the books. The best part is that you aren’t smug about it and act like you think you are so much smarter than everyone else like some creators who talk about HP can be. Love the content and can’t wait to see more!
Thanks for the great comment! I am genuinely just a normal reader. Lots of things I probably get wrong along the way, but hopefully that’s part of the charm of the channel!
@ that is part of the charm is that you are just a fan and a normal reader just like the rest of us. Keep up the great work and you will have me for a sub as long as you are making great content
fun fact, when the order starts cleaning up grimmauld place, harry takes notice of a locket everyone tries to open, but nobody is able to. obvious what that foreshadows
Here's another "Ron foreshadowing" moment: after he and Harry look at Harry's tea leaves, taking his own dream journal/predictions but *applying* them to Harry foreshadows the 3 tasks (here the "friend" is BCJ)
See, Ron is so logical. He can actually break the 4th wall in his foreshadowing! LOL! 😂 Also wanted to mention Harry was pretty good at reading Ron, too. "So you are gonna suffer, but be happy." When he saw the sideways cross for Ron. Meaning losing Fred along with the Hortacrux stuff, but getting to be with Hermione and having a family of his own in the end. It's all about perspective.
In the half blood prince Dumbledore and Harry discuss about the diary and the fact that Voldemort was so reckless with it. Dumbledore comes to the conclusion that Voldemort gave the diary to Lucius because he wanted the chamber of secrets to be opened. He had so many horcruxes that the diary didn't play a big role as he later made Nagini one. The room of requirement line from Dumbledore was also intentional because when Dobby tells Harry about it, Harry remembers this line from Dumbledore, and tells Hermione that it was Dumbledore who told him about it in the first place, when Hermione doubted Dobby's idea.
Dumbledore says in HBP that Malfoy didn’t know the diary was a horcrux
Still - at this point Lucius was still considered his most loyal male follower
I mean, evidenced by the fact Voldy gave HIM, not Barty his frigging soul fragment
Why exactly did Lucius treat it so badly? In fact, why did he give it away in the first place? The Malfoys are one of the sacred 28; the Ministry wouldn't bother them so much
He could have just temporarily given it to the Blacks, his in -laws
To bolster your theory about the Christmas gifts foreshadowing the deathly hollows:
toothpick = elder wand
tissue = cloak of invisiblity
50 pence = resurrection stone - but why?
Also a stretch, as publishing a book takes some time, but hear me out:
The first Harry Potter book was released in 1997, where the first present of the 50 pence is given (never read the books, this is what google told me and actually the theory would be more sound if it was in a later book)
In 1997 an incredibly rare 50 pence coin was released into circulation, having freesia on one side.
Freesia is associated to mean trust and friendship, but also a deeply rooted love.
The resurrection stone is meant to bring back a loved person. A person you trusted. Like characterized by a freesia.
Maybe the Dursleys wanted to be cheap by just sending 50 pence, not realizing how valuable that coin actually was?
Just my little theory to fill that gap =)
That’s awesome
🤯
PETUUNIIIAAAAAAAA
There's a pretty great one that foreshadows a big plot point in Order of the Phoenix.
Harry is noticing his increasing connection to Voldemort, and is trying to do his coursework while heavily distracted by thoughts of what Voldemort is after. The book he's reading, which it describes him as taking in not a word of, _precisely_ spells out exactly Voldemort's end goal in this book. It's a book about a plant that can be used to cause "confusion and befuddlement", and is best used in situations "where the wizard is desirous of producing hot-headedness and recklessness."
Voldy's plan is to use their newly-discovered connection to trick Harry into thinking Sirius is in danger and in need of rescuing, causing him to abandon all caution and come STRAIGHT to the Ministry, walking right into a trap.
And to think Harry might have noticed it if he wasn't so confused and befuddled.
I don't get Voldemort cursed the ring and kill whoever puts it on, but he didn't do the same with the locket to protect the horcrux with good measure. Then he would have eliminated the trio wandering around in the woods hiding while they look for more horcruxes and a way to figure out how to destroy them, or at least Hermione and Ron Harry would have been immune since he had one in him already. Also should have cursed the cup of Hufflepuff whoever tries to take it dies.
19:15 he also inherits the Black family fortune when Sirius is murdered by his cousin Bellatrix.
Just saying, as far as Snapes plot goes, she at least had that front day 1 cause she was very specific on who she wanted for that role and even told Alan Rickman the secret that Snape loved Lily from the very beginning specifically so he would perfect that character. So from the very 1st book, Alan Rickman (as Snape) had all that plot to go off of which you can really absorb when watch the films. The very first scene Harry speaks to Snape in the book and film is a secret Victorian flower message that said something like "I bitterly regret Lily's death".
57:22 Regarding the kidnapping, one of the most horrific theories I’ve heard is based on the unfounded/undebunkable claim that Bertha was pregnant. After she was killed & made horcrux fuel, they took said theoretical foetus & Moldy possessed it.
Yeah, the exact thing I don’t want to put in the narration of my video
56:09 Foreshadowing is just planting seeds for something that pays off later on. Nothing about it implies that it needs to be able to be guessed by the reader ahead of time.
I really appreciate the effort you put into these videos. From your narration, to presentation style, to editing, it's so well done, and never over the top. In regards to the bit about the boggart and how powerful a Voldemort version of it would be, I rather wondered what form it would take. Would it just turn into the two-faced Quirrell? Or maybe just the shadowy-cloaked form we see in the Forbidden Forest in the Philosophers stone? I also figured that, seeing as how feared Voldemort was to the general wizarding world, I thought for sure it would be the #1 fear of many of the children. But that begs another question- would the boggart only be able to turn into something you've physically seen? Boggarts are such a cool part of the lore for me, and I love the idea that Moody is (possibly) the only person who can see the "natural" form of a boggart, as his magical eye allows him to see through solid objects.
Ooh interesting!
58:32 "Harry pulling at his uncle's sausage" bro
💀
I have a hard time believing she did a lot of foreshadowing in the first book for some of these things that happened in book 7, but I think it’s totally reasonable to believe she foreshadowed things that happened 1-2 books later, especially as she got further into the books and knew more and more where she was going and as she became a better author
Honestly one major oversight that dumbledore had for sure is somehow not recognizing the critical danger a vanishing cabinet could present being inside hogwarts like that. That aside I love how some of the most simple magical items and rules in Harry Potter are some of the most powerful and underestimated. I know its obvious but I just appreciate it such as the Elder Wand disarming rule or the sheer power of the vanishing cabinet.
To answer your question about planning ahead: I read somewhere that Rowling had at least a version of the ending planned when she began on the first book. Though obviously who was in the ending and who wasn't changed throughout the series, but the basics were there, so it's possible that the horcruxes were already a thing.
I remember a anecdote, that supposedly Rowling wanted more horcrux goreshadowing in chamber of secrets that was cut by the publishers
@@lauramarschmallow2922 That's possible.
When Ron looks in the mirror he sees himself as all these great things for Gryfindor. While some of them werent what he saw exactly, he says "im head boy, i have the quidditch cup and im quidditch captain too". Later on, he goes on to help Gryfindor win and is hoisted on their shoulders as they sang "Weasley is our King". He also eventually becomes a Prefect.
Could be wrong, but I thought the fetus thing was Voldemort prime’s soul? As in, Voldemort prime and Harry were both in kings cross, but prime’s soul was so mangled that he appeared as a gross fetus
Oh possible!
I listened through all of them earlier this year and i surprisingly noticed most of these, but that's of course with seeing all of the movies countless times
To be honest to me it doesn't matter if the foreshadowing was intentional or not. For me, the foreshadowing is there and that makes the books even more magical 🥰
Really high quality content, glad I stumbled across your channel!
Thanks for watching!
The foe glass foreshadowing is one I never even considered until you brought it up. That's crazy. Even through my re reads I always just attributed it to the fact that Barty is the main viliian of that book so of course Snape and the others would be in the foe glass since they are the good guys for that book.
Yeah, could be reading too far into it but who knows. 🤷🏼♂️
12:10
what you mean shot in the dark
isn't it the main feature of the dumbledore fork of snape / lilly protection
if theres harry's blood around him these protected , better than horcruxes , if voldy has his blood attached to earth he's doing what the dursleys being doing since ever
This might be a stretch, but I think the ending of the first book when Gryffindor wins the house cup foreshadows the destruction of Voldemort’s horcruxes. Or at least who participates in doing so.
Dumbledore announces the points, just as he destroys the ring and presents Harry with the knowledge about horcruxes in the first place.
Then we have the trio, who obviously destroyed all of the other ones besides Nagini.
And who destroys the last horcrux? Neville, and he’s also the one who was awarded 10 points to help them win the house cup.
We always knew Harry, Ron, Hermione, and Dumbledore were going to be important as the series went on. So why throw Neville in there randomly? I believe it was all hinting at his rise and hidden bravery.
6:03 lucius sucks at death eating yeah but WORMTAIL??
Hey, don't make the same mistake everybody else did - under estimate Wormy
But, yeah, the Blacks would have been an obvious choice - you know, his frikking PARENTS -IN -LAW
just put the diary into the vault temporarily until the new Dark Objects hunter unit has tired themselves out
The centaurs knew Harry would die by Voldemort, specifically in the Forbidden Forest, which is why they get so pissed when Firenz saves him. They were waiting for that moment because it was the moment they were to officially join the war. Harry dies in the Forbidden Forest in book 7 and upon his awakening, the Centaurs join the battle as they're supposed to, which they saw in the stars. Dumbledore can read the stars a bit too, Firenz is an ally of his afterall and the centaurs as a whole salute him upon his death. In book one, it specifies Dumbledore has a watch that has 12 planets on it instead of numbers.
I think harry also found the room of Requirements back in The Philosopher's Stone when he found The Mirror of Erised
The mirror was in an empty classroom when harry first found it
@@wandering_butnotlost and for dumbledore it was a walk in cupboard full of nightpots.
@TeylaDex yes. But the mirror was not in the room of requirement that was presenting itself as an empty classroom, it was just in an actual empty classroom. Harry does not find the room of requirement in sorcerers stone
@@wandering_butnotlost the room appears as WHATEVER. it could look like an empty classroom
@@TeylaDex However, the room couldn't magically recreate the Mirror of Erised.
Love your videos, such good narration please keep up the great work 🙌
I think it’s pretty shocking that not a single other student had their fear be Voldemort. There definitely had to be a few at least that grew up hearing the scary things that he did
Yeah, but he vanished when most of them was just a year or two old
Do they even know what he looked like?
He's an obscure figure; you may as well be a 2000's kid with Ted Bundy or Charles Manson as your biggest fear
@ I thought that at first, but everyone is afraid to say his name, and it is not unlikely that there would be at least a few parents that had told their kids all the scary things that had happened, and that he had just disappeared. There was no confirmation that he was dead. There has to be some kids that are afraid of Voldemort more than anything haha
Am I crazy or did you not mention Harry finding Rowena's diadem in the room of requirement when he hid the potions book? That's like one of the most obvious ones
Ya ya ya good call. Can’t catch them all
@@VaultLore
I watched it in parts and didn't remember if you mentioned it or not. That one is the one I remember more vividly, the first time I read the books when I was 14 that was a huge "Oh shit" moment lmao
@@L251125 theres no way you picked that up on first read, but disregarding that - you said it yourself its 'the most obvious one'. Why would Vault waste time telling us the things we already know?
@@c4ctusc4ctusc4ctus
I did, and I think it's not a stretch to believe that. Especially if one reads them back to back.
And the point of the video is to point them out, I don't know what your problem is.
Bro I alsonpicked that up on my first read. Its so obvious.
The Sirius Black one you said another at same
Hushed whispers
The vale only Harry and Luna heard the voices
A weird numerology thing I noticed in the bit about the presents being representative of the deathly hallows:
- The 50 pence piece was in book 1 and is a circle, which has 1 "side"
- The toothpick was given in the second book and has 2 sides (if you picture it as a line)
- The tissue is given in the 4th book and tissues are squares which have 4 sides
So, basicall y like squid game?
•The stone (round) no edges - least useful, least satisfactory, least healthy Hallow (Cadmus, you suck)
Lowest hierachy
•The Wand (pointy) two edges - mo re useful, more powerful, more desirable against death
(You go, antioch)
Middle hierachy
• the cloa k (at least four edges) - most useful against "death", impenatrable, untracable, most durable, badass
Highest hierachy
Dumbledore's Army could have met in the Chamber of Secrets
I guess we don’t know what happened to that do we? Just got cemented off?
LETS GOOO your videos slap
Woooo thanks for watching!
I dont remember if this is headcanon or foreshadowing. But in book 1 the classroom that harry stumbles on to find the mirror of erised. When trying to find it again im almost certain follows how you get into the room of requirement
Oh I might have missed that one, I’ll have to check it out!
Horcrux were not after thought or later addition to the idea- because voldy died because of spell rebound but still he was alive that needed some plot to make him alive and he is main villain so his super power would be actually to the writer. voldy was not just powerful wizard he was literally immortal until all horcrux are not destroyed and if horcrux was not there then dumbledore would have simply taken care of voldy anyday.
24:45 No, itʼs talking about neither. Itʼs talking about how the heavens foretell Voldemort killing Harry in that very forest, on a night when both of them are in it.
56:30 They say pretty explicitly in GoF that pretty much anyone who still hates him would do, but he wanted to use Harry specifically.
This video got me through my break, great video!
Glad to hear it! Thanks for watching!
I loooove your videos king, keep it up
Thanks for watching!!
When reading Order for the first time I remember thinking they would return to the hole where the Devil Snare was under fluffy to and train where the either the chess set was or the room where the mirror and stone were hidden. But I guess the room of requirement was cooler.
Been waiting for this one!!!
Yay!
One curious thing in regards to the room of requirement is a line the PC game of Philosopher's Stone, right at the start. Dumbledore greets Harry (aka the player) and tells him that Hogwarts is full of secrets. He then goes on to recount a story of finding a room full of Chocolate Frogs which later turned into a room full of firecrabs. And I realized later that that line sounds very similar to the line used in Goblet of Fire, so I'm wondering if the game developers were referencing it (was book 4 already out at the time?) or if someone close to Rowing, or even Rowling herself, wrote it for the game. The latter seems a bit odd as there is no known record of Rowling being involved in the games. But it is a curious one.
Been waiting for this video.
Don't know if it has been said by another commenter but Harry telling the talking turban that he didn't want to join Slytherin is just an obvious call back to the last talking hat Harry encountered. Rowling was probably just trying to show that the fact the sorting hat wanted to put him in slytherin was still plaguing harry's mind.
Good call!
i can imagine that JKR had the idea of room of requirement as a funny element of magic castle, but found a good storyline use for this idea later and developed it. it happened to me a few times, when i make a mention of somethuing in my story because i think it would be a fun detail, and later i find a great use for this detail
I currently read the books to my son and I keep finding little details. We read the part with Filch mentioning Peeves breaking the vanishing cabinet just yesterday.
So Fred and George are kinda responsible for Dumbledore's death :/
Lol, I'm sure they'd have been horrified to think so.
What about the sky in the great hall becoming dark and stormy as soon as Mad Eye enters?
Oh that’s awesome, I didn’t notice that one!
@VaultLore Might have only been in the movie but upon watching it again it foreshadows that Moody isn't what he seems.
7:34 It's actually pronounced legilimency
Tomato, tomato
38:00 his name is also Remus, and during the war his code name for the radio show was Romulus, the names of famous lycanthrope twins from Greek mythology.
Romulus and Remus are the twins, not lycanthropes, from Roman mythology
If we are to assume that the idea of a horcrux was there from the start, Voldemort being flippant with its use is understandable, it is a ridiculously hard to destroy item and Voldemort was always over confident, so he had no real fear of harry a student figuring out what it is, or if he did why would Voldemort assume he could get access to one of the few things that can damage it
“Neither could die while the other lives” is not the prophecy.
Oops
I wish I could go back and reread the books blind. So many of these I don't know if I'd catch until it's revealed
Me too, thought I cauhgt them all
Turns out not so much; I mean the Dursley gifts allegorying the Deathly Hallow s......genius
What about the foreshadowing that JK missed? Obvious foreshadowing without a payoff. The position of DADA teacher was cursed. A new teacher every year. Harry shows real aptitude for teaching DADA to his fellow students. Harry defeats V and goes on to be..... an auror?! Working for the ministry that made his life hell for 7 books? Not the final DADA teacher, breaking the curse on the position? Working for the place he called home, that was a respite away from the Dursleys. Leaving it open to have future books about him and students he's teaching? Huge missed opportunity.
I will forever complain about this. "Hogwarts is my home" AND IT COULD'VE LITERALLY BEEN HIS HOME
You're telling me he FINALLY has a family, and he sends them off to school 7/8ths of the year? He would absolutely want to be around them as much as possible, and being a teacher he could see them all the time.
What better ending than for him to finally get a break from hunting and have peace? He could even become a Quidditch coach.
Even having him become a pro Quidditch player would've been a better career for him than an auror 🤦🏻♀️
Auror would've fit Ron better (alone) since he was always wanting to be in a position of power. Just look at their Mirror of Erised - Ron as Head Boy, Harry with family.
The description of the cabinets don't match.
One is a large black cabinet, the other is a large black and gold cabinet.
So I wouldn't call that foreshadowing. I would just say that is trying to find a link where none exists.
I remember Boarders I loved going there
Great video!
Thanks!
I remember reading the first book in the 4th grade and then the movie was coming out that next school year and it was this big thing cause I had gotten into the books… she only had the first 4 books out at the time, right? And she released books 5-7 after the movies were already in production. I think because of this I always assumed the ending wasn’t planned from the beginning. Like.. it wasn’t a state secret or anything at the time?
I think Hagrid is perceptive. One might even say he pays more attention to biology and life with his love of animals. But i dont think he knew about the Horcruxes
56:41 any enemy. Voldemort explains this.
Was that gandalf
page 394 referencing something specific in the book would be very difficult to pull off as some editions of the book have more or less pages than others. in my copy of Prisoner of Azkaban, page 394 begins partway through Sirius explaining how he managed not to go insane while he was in Azkaban.
Imagine though ✨
yeah that'd be cool
because of a comment I read the other day (for an episode of "through the Griffin door"), I can tell you: in my book of the German version it IS true!
@@lauramarschmallow2922 nice
The dinner for 13 my 3rd grade teacher told me it. It was mind blowing to me
@Vault - Page 394 is a numerical swap of Platform 9 3/4.
wow great observations!