Melbourne's Single Track Sections, and What To Do About Them
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 มิ.ย. 2024
- Although there have been a number of efforts to eliminate Melbourne's remaining single track over the years, there are still several locations where Single Track is found. In this video I discuss these and what can be done about them.
Chapters
00:00 Intro
00:26 Recent History and Upgrades
01:22 Alamein Line (Ashburton - Alamein)
03:00 Belgrave Line (Ferntree Gully - Belgrave)
05:00 Lilydale Line (Mooroolbark - Lilydale)
05:44 Hurstbridge Line (Montmorency - Diamond Creek, Wattle Glen - Hurstbridge)
08:14 Upfield Line (Gowrie - Upfield)
08:47 Altona Loop (Laverton - Newport)
10:13 Outro
Music Used (in order)
A Caring Friend - Bad Snacks
Music I made myself
Lullaby - Yung Logos
Manhattan - Dyalla
Videos Used:
• Cranbourne Line Upgrad...
• Victorian Rail - A Run...
• Hurstbridge Line Dupli...
• South Morang Rail Exte...
• Altona Loop Duplication
• Altona to Laverton Rai...
And those from zacsrailstuff linked in the video
Images Used:
Weston Langford
Belgrave First Train 1962 - www.victorianplaces.com.au/ta...
Google Earth
Myself
Footage taken between 2021 and 2024 - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
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As a resident of the Eltham area, the Hurstbridge line does warrant duplication to Eltham, & partial duplication to Diamond Creek because Diamond Creek has a population of 10-15k. But anything beyond Diamond Creek could almost never be justified.
It's worth noting that the full capacity of the current infrastructure is only used for a relatively short time during the peaks. There's nothing stopping a 10 minute all-day frequency to Eltham and 20 minutes to Hurstbridge.
I disagree. Wattle Glen and Hurstbridge are both on the metropolitan rail network, and that line, along with any and all other lines on the network that have single track sections must be duplicated - I remember back in the early 1990s, so 33-34 years ago, between 3-5 pm on an afternoon weekday peak, there were 3 trains from Hurstbridge heading to the city - 3!! Guess what, there are still 3 trains at the same time now! It needs to be fixed!
@@TheAntmiral You're dumb.
9:14 nice bottle
I loved signalling the Heidelberg to Rosanna single track section as a 24 yr old. Kid from Launceston plays trains!
Hopefully they duplicate that section of track. There was nearly a head on collision on the Belgrave line due to this. Upfield line is another line that has a single track section
@@thunderturbine8860 that part was duplicated as part of the rosanna level crossing removal in 2018
There's heaps of room between Seaholme and Westona if you take out the absurdly wide streets we have. We probably won't do that though - we all love our staggeringly expensive luxury wide streets.
I have to agree, we really don't need Railway Street North and Railway Street South to both exist
@@kirbstagoontheaxolotlYeah. Honestly living within 30-50m of a train line shouldn't be a thing either though. Gov should pay to evaluate each home, double the track and offer to buy out anyone who wants to move out at the pre-doubling price. Replace the homes with parkland and express bikeways.
really loving the effort and professionalism of these videos! Keep it up
Great video cheers for that.
Just an update on cave hill, now known as Kinley estate, between Lilydale and Mooroolbark.
This precinct could be coming along sooner than you expect, although there are more stages and development to come, it looks as if one of the villages is just about complete and ready for people to move in - with at least a hundred or so houses complete.
It’s also adjacent to Box Hill Institute (Lilydale Lakeside campus) so the duplication and new train station could be useful sooner than you’d expect.
There is a demand in Diamond Creek for public transport, as it is no longer a small town anymore, but with wait times of 50 mins plus its not considered a viable option by most. I doubt it will ever be double tracked the whole way from Eltham to DC due to the landscape
I think extending the number 6 tram to end at Ashburton, or maybe even going down further down high st rd and going up to connect to the 75, rather than Glen Iris would be a lot more useful and cost effective than duplicating Ashburton-Alamein, especially for late-night coverage
That would require some serious bridge work to get over Gardiner’s creek and the Monash Freeway given the elevation change into and out of the valley if you want to get to the Ashburton section of High St from the end of route 6.
Woohoo a new video!
On the top of my head:
Gowrie to Upfield
Mooroolbark to Lilydale
Sections of the Belgrave line
Ashburton to Alamein
Montmerency to Hurstbridge (passing loops)
Altona loop
Frankston to Stoney Point.
Are still single track as of 2024.
would you count termini with one platform as "single track"? or no?
@mineyon-ms
No I wouldn't. Sandringham Station is single platform with two tracks all the way to the city. If the double track was to end just before a final station of a single platform, I would give it a pass as double track line.
While two platforms at terminating stations would allow the line to reach its full potential, it is not a precondition for being able to run trains at 5-10 minute frequency.
As long as the single track section is less than a few hundred metres, trains can maintain a high frequency.
I hope this answers your question.
@@Vlocity2005 yes, thank you
They really need to duplicate the lines between Ferntree Gully and Upper Ferntree Gully. There was almost a collision in that section a few weeks ago as a Belgrave train and City train left Ferntree Gully and Upper Ferntree Gully simultaneously. It would also reduce the delay at Ferntree Gully station as often the Belgrave train has to stop just before reaching Ferntree Gully to allow safe passage of the City train coming through. Reckon they might do that once they finally get around to removing the level crossing at Ferntree Gully.
the level crossing at FTG needs to be replaced
Interesting viewpoints. Thank you b
babe wake up new metromanmelbourne video dropped
Nice video 👍
Nice video!
boy cant i wait
Cave hill mentioned 🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️
dont ask where the cave is
@@MetroManMelbourne where is it?
@@thatbluebook in the hill 🤫🤫🤫🤐
One could argue the cave is still there and only the rock that surrounded it has been removed.@@MetroManMelbourne
Back in the 80s, we used to call it "Electiondale Station", because that's the only time we ever heard about it.
as someone who lives on the far end of the Werribee line, the entire line needs some love - trains are once every 20-25 off peak, and on weekends trains are signnificantly longer due to the altona loop restrictions - so i reckon duplication would allow more trains on the whole line more often despite the constraints (fyi, williams landing is the third busiest station on the entire network with half the train frequency 😢)
Nice a new video
Used to work the box at Keon Park along time ago. Only 13 levers😅
Nice video. I would wonder when the Doncaster line is going to come out??
It won't. They are using the median in the eastern freeway as part of the north east link.
Cool video mate. Would love one for how to improve the Overlander :)
Overnight service and facilities at the station to eat a *good* meal, relax, have a drink prior to departure. As an overnight service you save a night's accom costs and arrive in the morning at your destination. Also return motorrail.
It's The Overland.
Grab some standard gauge 6 car velocities paint them maroon and have the same frequency that trainlink can manage with the XPT 's.
theparks, i rode the overlander in 1989 and the only beer on board was fosters light! no victorian willingly drinks fosters. only tourists ask for fosters.
@@vsvnrg3263 might have been on The Overland
The Belgrave line actually has quite a high population density - the trees in the area obscure the actual high density of housing. A new multilevel car park has been constructed at Belgrave to cope with the number of cars parked at that station.
Belgrave is not high density 😂😂😂😂 its very low density and the pork barrel carpark highlights how low the density is to justify that need.
@@74_pelicans You obviously haven’t had a look round under the trees. Belgrave has as high a density of housing as Glen Waverley. They are just under tall trees.
A lot of commuters between Belgrave and Upper Ferntree gully travel by car to Upper Ferntree Gully or further down to access better train frequency because of the bottle neck caused by the single line up the hill to Belgrave.
Belgrave's 'density' is increased by people funnelling in from other suburbs in the hills in every direction. Many people travel further to get to it than most other stations.
That said, because of the original line being designed for Puffing Billy, I doubt they'll ever do anything beyond UFG. A significant amount of the line is on the sides of steep hills.
A multi-level carpark does not suggest high density. It tmerely suggests people drive to the train station, and perhaps due to the distance from their homes - therefore, low density.
one rail is pretty useful because i live in broady
aww man i missed th premiere
There also needs to be triple track between Box Hill and Ringwood. The present double track is a capacity limiter, in spite of level crossing removal on that section of line.
6:00 Eltham station is two tracks.
Therefore, the single track sections are Montmorency-south Eltham, north Eltham-Diamond Creek, Wattle Glen-Hurstbridge.
doesn't really count
its more of a passing loop
@@thatbluebook i guess
3:09 PUFFING BILLY MENTIONED!
I'm so glad that the Epping line got duplicated from Keon Park to Epping durng the extension of the line to Mernda in the early 2010s, it made a massive difference.
extension to mernda in early 2010s? i thought that happened in 2018
@@mineyon-ms Sorry, I meant South Morang instead of Mernda. South Morang extension was announced in 2009, started construction in 2010 and completed in 2012. Part of the works was duplicating the track between Keon Park and Epping.
Very nice video although I do think describing the Montmorency butterfly issue as "misguided", is misguided. A threatened species is a threatened species, and unless and until they can come up with a way to bypass or relocate the railside population it needs to be protected.
Preservation of biodiversity and the protection of endangered species should always be a priority for any project. Imagine if it was a koala habitat rather than a butterfly’s, people would be up in arms.
@@MetroManMelbourne It's a pretty small section isn't it?
I came here to say the same thing. :) People only think the butterfly is insignificant beacuse it's small - if we were talking about a big, obvious mammal, everyone would see it's value! Extinction is forever, so any action needs to be considered very carefully. I don't think there's any easy solution where both the butterfly and the railway win, but it's possible if they'd identified it earlier in the project (rather than waiting for locals to point it out), there might have been time time plan a better compromise. Anyway, enjoyed the video!
Probably because it was planted by some NIMBYs. The duplication to Montmorency then just became a massive waste of money. Also, heading east, a train departing Greensborough from Platform 1 barely makes it to Montmorency before there are points that go to Platform 2. Quite the joke.
@@ngerk While not what it could have been, the duplication has allowed a 10 minute frequency to Eltham, over the previous limit of 20 minutes, so it wasn't without benefit. I do agree the position of the crossover is not good, and should have been as close to Greensborough as possible.
(and no, nimbys didn't 'plant' the butterfly - the reason they're so endangered in the first place is that they only survive in very specific places. There have been ongoing sightings since the first one)
The Stony Point line is all single track. Hae you omitted this intentionally?
Different kettle of fish. That would warrant its own entire video.
The what line?
maybe a passing loop at baxter?
Not to be patronising - but it seems weird having so many single track sections on a suburban network. Maybe that’s because I’m used to Sydney’s trains (and the 6-track section through the inner west). Especially considering Melbourne was planned out properly as a city from the get go (unlike Sydney). Love your vids regardless, I’m learning lots about Melbourne transport :)
Most of these sections were minor branch lines in the past and some date back over 100 years. I don't think OP quite sold how difficult the terrain is around the Belgrave line in particular either.
Eventually the Belgrave line will be the only single track 😅 mostly because the end of the line can't exactly be widened on the edge of the hill around Tecoma & Upway.
Just a heads up that Cave Hill is currently being developed. It’s not a proposal, it’s a thing that’s underway as we speak. I’m literally moving in to the development… *checks notes* next month. Expected population of 6500+ people. We’re gonna need a station, and duplication.
So why move before a station is built? Why not put pressure for development of a station before houses. Oh the car brains.
@@74_pelicans Uhhh yes, because I’m definitely going to wait the 15+ years for a station to be built before buying the land, and all the land definitely won’t be sold by then, and prices definitely won’t have skyrocketed… hahahahaha
Cave Hill & Lilydale areas will likely need upgrades once the development on the old quarry site (which is slowly being filled in but is predicted to take up to 5yrs to complete) is finally started.
Ferntree Gully to Upper FTG is a reasonable upgrade but beyond that, the environmental/hippie/greenie-type culture around Upwey & Tecoma may be a factor PTV would probably want to avoid.
the developers OFFERED to the government to build the station themselves at their cost and stupidity enough the government refused. my local MP has been advocating for the duplication works since elected
@@Region13 It’s about 90% filled, it’ll only take another year or two to finish filling. Then it will need time to settle and monitor.
Lilydale line will end up with a new station, the development in kinley is full steam ahead atm, will definitely see the line duplicated and new station
Lilydale-Mooroolbark remains the longest single track section on the metropolitan network. Our local MP has been advocating its duplication since elected
BTW it is 4.7km, not 4.4
Don't think the single track between Ashburton and Alamein is a huge issue considering the fact the line has low ridership. However, the other lines mentioned in this video could use duplication especially Upfield, that single track between Gowrie and Upfield severely limits how many trains can travel on the line, only having 3 trains per hour even in peak hour is pathetic, I'm surprised that the government hasn't even bothered rebuilding Upfield station and having 2 platforms would definitely increase the number of services if duplication is too expensive.
The Altona loop is a huge issue and a major bottleneck of the Werribee line, the government should really consider permanently splitting the line and make Werribee run separately without having to go through the Altona loop such as would help but I guess it's all up to budget issues I suppose.
How come you didn't mention the Stony Point line? That line is entirely single track, which is why service frequency is so low.
Stony Point would qualify for its own video
Its low because it goes to nowhere.
They should quadruplicate the Frankston line
I believe better traffic control and better designed passing loops can do nearly as much as dupication can, for much less. Just look at Switzerland. If trains are constantly missing their arrival times at passing loops, that means the timetable is wrong and/or the traffic control is not working right.
There's nowhere on the network where duplication wouldn't be of some help.
9:14 😂
trestle bridge
damn that sounds like an instagram account that might not exist anymore??
@@MetroManMelbourne he probably means the eltham trestle bridge
The only trestle bridge I was thinking about was puffing Billy but that's not one that main line😅
Flying bottle! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Management always bleats about 'low patronage' not justifying expansion. Alamein could sustain 10 min headways without any change. The problem beyond FG is poor signalling. A down train cannot arrive at FG while an up is coming. Changing the signalling could do that. Duplicating just across the crossing would fix that problem (providing better overlap), but breaches PTV's dictum 'no more level crossings'.
Just duplicating to Cave Hill would let the line sustain 10 min headways throughout. Hurstbridge could sustain 20 min headways today, but PTV won't do it. Duplicating to the up side of Diamond Creek bridge is feasible. A second bridge is unnecessary. Any short single line section can sustain 10 min headways; the problem is if any route has several of them at incompatible distances. For minimum money, Gowrie could have 10 min headways, with 20 to Upfield. There is an easy solution to Altona: run all down trains through Altona, and all up trains up the straight, with cross-platform interchange at Laverton (which it had until PTV spent millions removing it). That provides 10 min headways at all times, and removes assorted flat-junction bottlenecks. It is time neutral, as Alamein then gets limited-stop trains (North Melbourne - Footscray - Newport) at all times, with 10 min headways to Werribee picking up the stops.
definitely agree about the ftg signalling, i've been on many a train that has had to hold before the station for upwards of 15-20 minutes to wait for the citybound train
i hope they don't electrofiy to emerald or if they do hopefully they don't take land from PBR so it can still run from belgrave to gembrook
Alamein? Low ridership interesting now revive the inner and outer loop lines and reroute trains to run the full loop and Watch ridership skyrocket
Skyrail through Altona is a good solution to get around space restraints but it would take some convincing to get the local council on board.
Build another track above the single track
Better PT leads to higher density pop growth, not the other way around. Lack of PT inhibits any population growth.
RAHHHH ALAMEIN MENTIONED 🔥🔥🔥🗣️🗣️🗣️🚊🚊🚊WHAT THE FUCK IS A TRAIN???!!!!
@9:34 "There is a major constraint between Seahome and Westona which would likely prohibit most attempts at line duplication" - can't you just skyrail that and make the space underneath a nice bike path? Looks like there is space for a 2-track Skyrail, 2-way local road with slow speed limit and a bike path lined with some gardens. Might have to lose street parking but that isn't a God-given basic human right...
That's the only feasible way
Altona Loop should be elevated and duplicated
Stony Point Line:
Can you please speak a bit slower, so older people can understand.
Hi mate, if you find he talks too fast go the settings on the video, you can slow down (or speed up) the playback speed.
I also checked the automatic closed captions - they're not bad!
Your audio sucks & the network map at 8:30 looks like it was photographed on a potato 🥔 ......needs improvement D-
The audio's largely fine, i disagree.
The source for 8:30 is www.flickr.com/photos/danielbowen/44646955914/ - there's no higher quality version in existence. I know it's bad quality.
@@MetroManMelbourne
😎👌
There is something of a sound dropout at about 4:47 though, just after you say “duplication to Upwey”. I thought the video was fine in terms of covering the subject, and I’m a block or so away from Westona, so I know well of what you speak!