Chapters: 0:00 Intro 0:30 Meet Orenda Fink! 1:00 Orenda's Music Career 5:50 What I Loved About The Witch's Daughter 7:40 Navigating No-Contact With Abusive Parents 19:09 Recognizing the Abuse of Others 34:03 Children Don't Know Real From Fake 40:24 Carl Jung's Work vs Today's Trauma 44:02 The Journey of Therapy & Dreamwork 58:31 The Grief of Going No-Contact 1:03:03 Getting Yourself Back After Abuse 1:10:24 Learn More About Orenda Fink 1:11:06 Outro
My brother didn't get away from my family like I did, and he's now dead from a drug overdose. I've been grieving for him. I'm glad you mentioned these other stories of deceased siblings who never got away because now I know I'm not alone.
Big solidarity. 💜 two of my brothers are in the graveyard...one took their own life after a long addiction and the other diabetes..even though ive taken the long way to stability i made it out. No contact for 8 years with my insane mother.
My elderly stepfather stated "we both" when mentioning how we were victims of abuse from my borderline mother. I'm over 60 and let him know we didn't start from an even playing field. I was six, he was mid 30's when he married her. He could have left her. I could not. I had no, no, no power or resiliency. Took me so many years to process all this sh**.
Presently battling the inner critic telling me no one cares about my thoughts on this video despite Patrick literally asking for feedback. This shiz is so deeply ingrained.
Inner critics can be real jerks. I care and I'm sure others do too. I get so much from hearing other folk's perspectives and what they've learned on their journey. I hope you get the courage to share when you're ready!
That sounds like an internal part trying to protect you. I am recognizing this and believe that Internal Family Systems Therapy can help. Personally, the title got my attention, but, for me, I strongly suspect that witchcraft is going to be”poo pooed” as only mental illness. I would beg the question, which came first, rebellion against God, or mental illness? Way too much personal experience to be in any agreement with any denial of witchcraft . The occult is as real as the words I am typing, and more prevalent than many people realize. Family curses reach down through the bloodlines. God allows us to experience evil and the repercussions of it, and sent His Son, Yeshua Hamashiach, to be the propitiation for those sins, that we may not perish if we genuinely repent and confess our sins, only He can heal us of these wounds . And before anyone attacks me as being some religious fanatic, I am a sexual abuse survivor, and religious abuse survivor in that the same people who taught me about God were also my abusers, so I am quite worthy of respect and compassion as much as any other survivor on this forum.
Thank you both. Very meaningful discussion. Let's take a moment to celebrate all of us that had to go through hell yet still manage to love and help people.
Yes! Absolutely! And noticing how often people respond to Patrick with "Thank you Patrick! You saved my llife"! Knowing those are not just words. Those are literal actual factual truths.
I’m 60 and I’m still that child but, I’m now the best part of that child in going no contact with a mother and siblings that shun me. Thank you both! 🥰
Hi Mary. Same! I am 60 and still that child....don't know yet who my child is, NC with NP mother and 2 older sibs that shun me also. Scapegoat child is me. Sad, grieving, in disbelief still. Just identifying as an orphan. She is sick mentally and damn cruel. I can never recall I caring moment with her ever. Just despises me but still wants full control. TOO LATE
I'm 57 and I'm wondering is there an average age that adult survivors of Narcissistic abuse or familial abuse go 💯 no contact and start inner work? On these life saving sites by Patrick Teahan, Crappy Childhood fairy, Richard Gannon, Dr. Ramani to name a few, there seems to be many of us in our 50-60 range that are open to this change.
Two beautiful souls ❤ Thank you for your vulnerability. I was surprised to hear Patrick’s mom is still alive. If you are reading this, we are with you, Patrick. We hurt just look you did. Thank you so much for what you do.
When I finally worked up enough courage to tell my mom that she hurt my feelings, she iced me out “to process”. Days later, my dad called me and said he just doesn’t understand it. My mom’s been crying all night and neither of them have slept. “When you throw a bomb, it doesn’t just affect the person it hits, it affects everyone around them” literally equating my feelings to a bomb. I told him he has unqualified to give me advice and that he was gaslighting and they’re both abusive. Felt good
@@Bronte866it’s so hard because it’s covert, and I’d lose my whole family. But I’m low contact with firm boundaries and in therapy. It has been a grieving process to reset my expectations of them
I remember how my Father said something similar to me...and it really hurt as i had 'assumed' that he understood me the most in the family...but on hindsight he had given me few opportunities to show me that in reality I never had his FULL SUPPORT
So hopeful to hear people like you two. You've made it through. Going no contact with family is so much harder than i thought.❤ Love to every soul that is inflicted with so much hurt, as a small innocent, beautiful child.
Thank you for sharing these videos! My father ran over my sweet kitty Casper right in front of me in the driveway. When he got out of truck he said “ he should have moved” and went inside. I was crying and holding Casper as he passed. My 2 brothers were fine with it when I told them later. I was the scapegoat in the family. If you can believe it my mother was even worse. The information you share is so helpful thank you again 🙏🏻😊 that happened when I was in my early 30’s I’m 56 now. And both my parents have passed.
My Dad did the same thing to my dog. He did it on purpose because he was mad the he would circle the car. So he gunned it. I saw the whole thing. He didn't care. I was left shattered in pieces. I was the scapegoat too. I was around 15.
Phew! Family scapegoat here. 55. In the middle of processing my trauma. It sure helps knowing I am not alone but at the same time we have to do our work in our own individual soul and body level...❤
@earthrooster1969 a poem I wrote about finding myself again Ecstasy at finding me I lost so long ago The knowing smile Just like a child Who whispers all alone The shell amends Beneath it bends A branch, a broken bough It extends, it has no end The soul it will allow To slice and carve infinity To mend the cracks No one can see 🌟
I resonate totally with this My mother was an extreme right wing fundamentalist nationalist. My father was a warm hearted go-along for peace. I would appeal to him for support from my mother’s strict abuse, and he would always defer to her. Led me to years of abusive relationships. After my first divorce, my mother didn’t speak to me for two years and wouldn’t allow my father to speak to me either. They are big one now, and I am incapable of having a good, loving relationship. And I don’t care. Being alone feels like my comfort zone! Thank you for your videos, Patrick. I’m 79, and they are still very helpful to me in unraveling my childhood trauma, even though it is more religious abuse than those related to alcohol abuse.
Fantastic discussion - I'm going to get her book! It feels validating to hear a story so similar to my own. I 'awakened' far later in life and for those who say, "Why bother at this late stage?", I offer this: Awakening is not easy, but wow - it's amazing to see clearly for the first time in my life, like Lasic eye surgery for the SOUL!
Ditto, in these comments someone mentioned her audio book with music clips. The Witch's Daughter, read by the authors,.Orlinda will be my first audio book purchase.
15:45 “This will never end” was the exact same thought I had with my mother. My mother sounds like yours, lost my whole family because I had to keep the peace and didn’t fulfil my role that was expected of me. Ordered your book 🙏
You’re right. It will never, ever stop. I so hoped that as they got older they would stop it. At 17 a therapist told me it will never stop and I should get away from them & never look back. I was too scared at 17 to take that advice. Biggest regret of my entire life.
@@Bronte866 I left 4x since 18. My final attempt was 44, I understand the regret. 🤗 but we finally broke free from the entanglement, that’s more than others.
Omg interview with Orenda!!!! I picked up this book from the library on my way out of town for the holidays, based on Patrick’s rec. I was roadtripping two thousand miles round trip to visit family of origin. I finally cracked open the book on day 5 when I had the mental space… and read the entire thing in one day, between rest stops in the desert and my hotel room. Orenda, this is such a masterpiece, and I felt an immediate kinship to your story. I am buying a copy of your book for me and another for my “witchy friend” across the country, as we do our recovery work together. (Spoilers below) One thing that really struck me was how understatedly you handled the disintegration of the “magic” narrative… throughout this book there’s the looming sense of magic might be brought in at any point to f* things up, with multiple uncanny instances of dreams coming true and witchcraft having tangible effects, with the exclamation point of the dream about George. Finding out that none of your mother’s backstory likely even happened, makes this whole notion of “the magic coming true” fall apart at the seams, and that universe-shredding is just left to hang there. 😱 You’ve inspired me to pick up a writing pen myself after 12 years of silence in that area… my story has so many parallels to yours just with the parents’ genders reversed. Seeing you go through that with soul-staring honesty, gave me the vocabulary to be horrified on my own behalf, and I thank you for opening your spirit in vulnerability to so many who needed to hear you.
There’s something really comforting about Orenda sharing her story. It made me realize that we’re not alone in our struggles. Even though we come from different families, a lot of our traumas are surprisingly similar. Orenda and her husband are super talented and creative folks, and I loved watching them perform live. There was one show that really stood out to me; I could see how deeply connected Orenda was to her music. You could feel the pain in her songs as she sang. Now that I know where that pain comes from, it’s wild to think she has a story that’s so much like mine. Huge thanks to Orenda and Patrick for opening up and sharing their experiences.
I stopped the video early to note that locating personality pathology in a cerebral way is hands down one of the best things I did for myself. It helped me see the fleas I had picked up in my home and differentiate toxic behavior I exhibited from me, survivor. I could adjust how I reacted to things. Also, I believe that acute personality pathology (never fleas), is early soul death. The personality dies in early childhood, because it starves to death while in exile. I feel for both my parents, who display sadistic tendencies along with other toxic behaviors. They forced me to commit a kind of self death on repeat. They were unsuccessful because there is something in me that resisted. I'm lucky there was this innate resistance. Most of the people I ended up around are dead. My parents threw me to the street, so, yeah. I believe that intellectualizing recovery has a place. I now help other people understand what happened. It helps
I like your explanation of early soul death. It explains the jealousy narcissists have for those of us that are excited by life and have original ideas and radiate energy. They want to eat that soul and live off of another's energy. Lately I have started to question my own resistance, where did my hubris come from? So thankful to not be OF them.
I really like how you worded this. Early soul death. Forced to commit self death over and over. This rings so true. I've always had this inner resistance too. My sister was always more susceptible to the abuse and is struggling with heavy denial and depression now. I hope her soul isn't too damaged. My emotionally immature mother especially targeted her
Patrick and Orenda - thank you for your discussion. I felt every bit of it with you, which helps confirm, as I oscillate within myself, that I have indeed had this childhood. Going non contact 8 months ago - low contact really, wished happy new year......always bad ha. More BS that really is SO obvious. So much cycling of grief once one pinches oneself when nearly returning to the illusion of how it was - NO. Then confirming, better off as an orphan than the "cinderella la la happy family nonsense" Scapegoat here. to hear both of your thoughts and feelings around this period was gold for me. Thank you both 🥰🙏
Wow! Love the The Casket Girls, Chemical Dizzy. Good stuff. I found this interview helpful because it wasn't a clinical lesson about childhood trauma, it was two highly relatable people having a broad stroke conversation about their paths to healing from childhood trauma . I really needed this because I need all the reminders I can get that you can be a childhood trauma survivor and you don't have to hide or be ashamed. Thank you both!
it has become easier for me to go no contact after being punished with the silent treatment over and over again for decades.... Why feel guilty about leaving a toxic relationship when they are so eager ( and able) to discard you ?~ it helps with the guilt knowing they can live with out me . Just the time it takes to recover your cognitive abilities after abuse is reason enough to go no contact.
Oh, this comment hit my heart. I’ve come to this same conclusion, (been no contact from my bio-fam for almost two years) but I haven’t been able to articulate my thoughts this clearly. Thank you for sharing this. It’s really helping my brain sort through my thoughts. ❤️
My mother placed my brother up to defend her against our father instead of leaving. I had set her and siblings up in a nice home but she returned again. My brother died at home Our family fell apart. I was the scapegoat and I feel my brother realised this was all too much. I was no contact and my mother passed recently. She failed to get help for childhood trauma and grief and I learned from her failings and am the only one who has. This is a topic that many truly can look to becoming aware of constant unhealed wounds and heal. My parents were warring teenagers.
Hello. The book is really amazing. I listened to it on Audible, read by Orenda. The added bits of music were very nice, making it even more personal. Great interview.
So many good things (crazy mother & codependent dad) but the end bit… I am 65 and retired and joined Adult Children of Alcoholics and Dysfunctional Families 11 months ago. I am ready to continue growing into my authentic self. And I don’t want to leave this planet not knowing who I am. Thanks!
I'm not a mechanic but I can confidently change an air-conditioning condenser. I'm not an electrician but I can confidently diagnose and fix a neutral wire issue. I'm not a carpenter but I can confidently install and seal wooden decking. I'm not a psychiatrist but I can confidently identify that my Dad is a malignant compensatory narcissist to the point of it being a disorder! I firmly believe you can assess your own family members for disorder of this kind. And maybe certain presidents...
I really appreciate this conversation. Thank you for doing it. It means so much to hear people talking about the other parent after dealing with the problem parent. And so many other things. The other parent really did and does need to get the kids out of there.
I enjoyed hearing you interview Orenda! I hadn’t heard of her book or music, I looked up her music and it’s amazing. I’m definitely getting her book. So many insights and very inspiring to see people who go through trauma and still thrive!!
Listening to you two talk has been incredibly eye opening and has put to words so many things that I had been feeling. What a meeting of the minds. Thank you!
Oh I read Orenda's book right when it came out and it resonated with me so so much. I felt seen and contained and embraced at the same time. She has a beautiful raw way to portrait what some of us went through but could not articulate. Thank you Patrick for allowing Orenda to use your platform.❤
I feel so seen and validated in everything you two say. Thank you so much! It's such a confusing place to be in, full of heartbreak and self gaslighting and like you pointed out, this is your normal and you have to re-learn what actual human behaviour is like! Or you'll most likely perpetuate the cycle, either as an obliviously codependent victim of another broken human or as the next generation of witch herself.
Glad to be able to tune in. 4:30 Patricks skills in the music realm awesome. I like seeing people expressing themselves healthily. 😁💡💯I think thats really good for people. The loss of normalcy huh? Well, i can definitely opine on that. Im sure many of us knew, dealt with, or suffered as a result of, the codependent parent, in all its toxicity." 🙏💯
Y'ALL! This conversation could not have shown up at a more important time for me. My mother's "stories" about events from her early life I am just now at 64 discovering may or may not have actually happened😢
Thank you Patrick, and Orenda! Love this interview and now I have another book in my queue! So called shadow work is hard and doesn't always lead us to the outcome we hoped for (in tack family, decent connection, being understood, etc), and often it leads to no contact just to survive and try to heal enough to do deeper work. I'm no contact with my mom seven years ago and my dad by proxy.Also one sister and, up until his life threatening motorcycle accident this year, a brother too. My dysfunctional and often highly toxic family has all had to be in regular group texts and it has heightened my inner turmoil about not being at a place where I can "forgive and move on" like I've been conditioned to believe is best. But like my therapist said, what if healing doesn't look like being able to tolerate being close to the abuser, what if it means your system tells you that's not safe and you finally listen. And grieve. So, I do, and Im still in the years long process of grieving and unearthing the pain, damage, wounds trauma and abuse and trying to heal from it all. Thank you both for being there for us who are trying to dry the work and not leave this life without knowing ourselves. ❤❤❤ Peace, love, happy new year to you both.
Really lovely helpful conversation. Gives me hope to see others who have had done the hard work to reprocess trauma and to reconnect with their inner child to then take what they have learned and share it with the rest of us crawling around in the shadows. Brave & inspiring
I love this guest and can relate but just to clarify, actual Wiccans only practice "White Magic" and any "spell" is believed to come back to the Witch 3x as much as the person they did the spell for. Kind of like a Golden Rule on steroids. One of my ancestors was persecuted in Salem and "Witch" is often used as a derogatory toward women, never men. So hopefully we clarify that this is a beneficial religion! - signed, a Wiccan! 🧡💛
Blessings sister! It is so true. Thanks for commenting. Our religion is commonly misunderstood and maligned. It is prone to religious abuse, though, just like any ideology! Hopefully our loving-kindness and respect for life as core values shine brighter than foolish malignant practitioners. May love shine bright upon you and all beings!
@@Norton57Many thank you for those beautiful words sister. We are protectors! Yes so many fake practitioners use our terms to abuse. This is not allowed! May the narrators of this video heal and all life be respected! Many blessings to you 💛
Too much apology and guilt around cutting off toxicity. It is taking care of your one and only life and spirit. We are too forgiving of evil doers. They are dangerous and unconscionable to us all. I think it's ok if you don't love your narcissistic parent from afar. It is ok to axe them from your life. They make thier choices. You have a right to your well being.
I absolutely agree. Often the feelings are more complicated though... and sometimes we stay in it because we love someone in the family system who we'd lose if we went no contact. For me, my sister for example.
Yes! To everything, but lately I've been super fearful that the ways that I'm charming are fake or manipulative. I appreciate having this validated as something others who are in similar healing boats go through as well
Could you do a video on the link between having nightmares (or night terrors, in my case) and having a traumatic childhood? or maybe more generally - types of dreams that may come up if you have had a dysfunctional family?
As an aside, looking good, Patrick, love the haircut; pro, clean, very GQ, with a touch of rock and roll, works very well. Thank you for all the insights shared and validating content. Top of the line teacher, online. Is this real life? This should be, the standard irl, but it's not. You've helped me deal with previously ongoing intense emotional responses to abuse, multigenerational neurodiverse trauma, scapegoating.. and yet there are so many blessings to be created, and vulnerabilities to protect in the youngest beloved family member's lives. My respect for you, has helped deepen self respect, relatively. And you clarify, validating my own insights on situations I'm painfully the only one witnessing.. determined to use experiences, knowledge, and shared joys, and acceptence to offset distress trauma in beloved little one's lives, be a positive mirror, and hardwire some self esteem and creative joy instead.. thank you
omg tell Todd Fink hello :P I'm wearing my The Faint concert shirt from the time we went to Omaha. We talked with him at the merch booth about skating. True power couple. They both helped me in their each ways during a dark time
This is helping me, I've just gone no contact with my Sister, we're the only ones left in our immediate family. The guilt with the 1st Xmas holiday has been difficult. I feel free not being around her narcissistic abuse, but picturing her at Xmas was hard, and I was 2nd guessing myself.
I just checked out The Casket Girls - bloody fantastic indie music. There's always a great takeaway with Patrick's videos but I didn't see this one coming 💜
This was so helpful. Thank you both! Her story about her mother is so similar to my story. Pretty sur my mother has a mental disorder. Just went no contact and have cut off 2 of her other children. Its sucks but here we are.
Brilliant, insightful discussion...I will get the book. The title is intriguing and draws me. I'm curious what's lurking in my shadow that beckons to me. Thank you for this very helpful and thought provoking conversation.
I never had an issue telling my parents about themselves and not having them in my life. Going to no contact with my siblings was beyond hard and I cried for days letting myself grieve. As someone who believes in demons and stuff, this would not help me in my dreams. I pray that this book helps others.
@sjohan7835 right lots of people talk about the parents, which is understandable but not many people I have seen talk about the sibling aspect. I would just like people to know their not alone in the siblings thing. ☺️
I totally understand. I went no contact with my mother once and sadly it also meant going no or very low contact with my sister because of how my mum had "converted" her to see the error in me. My sister kept working away at me to get me to come back and started to reiterate manipulative narratives at me that were quite off putting tbh. It's the reality though. No matter how strong the love between siblings might be (and ours was very strong), if they're not ready to leave, the toxic family system has the stronger hold on them. I eventually allowed minimal contact after 6 months but slowly my mother has pried her way back into my life. It's nerve-wrecking actually and produces huge anxiety spikes in me. I need to reduce contact again. And no visits.
@@mandarinadreux9572 i am trying to lower my expectations and just accept that my siblings will likely continue to side with/enable our abusive mother. It is hard to let go of those relationships & hope that they will wake up and see reality for what it is
Orenda mentioned that she's still looking to understand the narcissists mind. I'm similar also. Sam Vaknin thoroughly describes the mindset of cluster B people. His videos have helped me to grasp the cluster B insanity better than anyone else. Can't recommend him enough. He's a diagnosed narcissist which might put people off but he speaks from research and psych literature, factual and his own well thought out ideas. Learning about how profoundly different and malformed their personalities are, even though they mimick being pretty normal alot of the time, has been such a foundational support for me realising I'm actually ok and they're the broken one... Very noticeable shift in me when I got this. Took Sam's articulated knowledge for me to understand it. Not trying to take anything away from this channel, it's also profoundly helpful
Wow thank you so much for sharing this. I have not checked him out yet. Seeing content produced by psychopaths their psychology from their own perspective helped me understand one parent but delving into narc stuff could help me more with the other unsafe parent
I think people like our mothers are so afraid of their own self-loathing and faults, that to admit even a small fault would open a crack in the protective wall that would expose the inner ugliness to others but worst of all, to themselves. They can’t bear to acknowledge the deep deep worthlessness they feel and to admit it, almost feels like death. They scramble constantly, covering that up, with overachieving, competition, controlling others, making others feel smaller.
I think you're spot on. And i think these are actually really childlike feelings because they stayed in the guilt mindset of a "bad" 2 year old and never were able to become more mature for whatever reason, be it trauma, bad parenting, predispositions or something else... someone above me stated that they think it is early soul death from a soul having been dissociated away from so aggressively for such a long time that it starved. I thiught that image was also quite thought-provoking since it takes personal resilience into account
My mom used religion in the way Orenda's mom used witchcraft. She thought she had ESP and could influence events with her mind. She was a lot like the mother in "Carrie". Supernatural curiosity got completely ruined for me and I'm an atheist now because of it.
My step mother was a witch and my dad was completely devoted to her. I was an inconvenience to her and she scared me. I was never able to have a consistent relationship w my dad becauseof this. It hurt me so much that i had to go no contact and just found out that both my dad and stepmother have died. My dad's obituary didn't mention me either. Such petty, hurtful people. I always thought he'd come around. I was so wrong.
What is the line between the inner child work vs subconscious programming (behavior/thinking)? There is a lot of indirect teachings from in most cases generational trauma that would be difficult to put the blame on the parent totally because they don’t know any better either…
I have an awareness that these mothers and fathers who can act out their issues do it because it is supported. Taking full responsibility is placed upon others. A candle goes out once we starve it if oxygen. The gift is being aware of other damaged and toxic vampires before they are welcomed into my life
Such an amazing read! I too could not stop listening (audio book)! From this book I got the recommendation to read, "Understanding The Borderline Mother," by Christine Ann Lawson. Another one I was totally pulled in by. Highly recommend.
My brother is in hospital due to a suicide attempt. We tried to go no contact but could not due to having autism as well as all tge mental health isdues. I wake up daily wantingvtovend my life but i wintcdonitvwhilst myblively dad is still with us. Mum passed away 6 years ago now. Its hard for him to live alone as he has autism too but at least now we can have a very good friendship without her trying to keep us apart. X
I had a lot of similar experience with my borderline mother, its almost shocking. However what I wanted to say is that I suspect that being a daughter to a borderline mother is probably more dangerous than being a son. My sisters has had it worse than my brother and me.
I had to pause the video because Orenda's mother sounds just like mine. Never apologized. Not really. She would say the words "All I can do is apologize," as if saying that sentence as a preface *was* the apology. But she never actually acknowledged what she said or did. I also similarly would have to apologize, even if it was just "I didn't mean it," because she just wanted to be absolved of any sense of responsibility. If I apologized then that meant she was blameless and it was my fault for being hurt, for having feelings, etc.
I'll be candid dealing with chronic drinker us difficult ad a child but much worse once u r a adult . It just never stops. Too much drama u learn to ignore everyone's constant comments.
Educating myself and putting a label on my mother's crazy behaviours which was so confusing and infuriating was a grand braking!🧐👏 That helped me to move on with my healing as the penny finally dropped how that works and why in personality disorder. It was eye-opening like being enlightened by the God😉 It was very profound for me, and let me move with my healing. Through the process, I could understand more and put a label instead call it crazy or being constantly confused to the level that I felt I was losing my marbles! How someone can be so double face-bitch and a compulsive liar 🤔 The personality disorder labels were a lot for me!
I understand Dx from afar, and the current pandemic of irresponsibility around it...yet by their fruits you shall know them....just saying (LMFT here).
My witch mother framed my husband for scapegoating me. Then she lied horribly and created paranoia in our adult children and now we could not net our first granddaughter. The pain is unbearable. She is targeting my husband...now they goaded us to kill ourselves. It is so dark.
I was wondering if at ‘the age of 5’ did she take those experiences or behaviors like casting vengeful spells into her own relationships because as Patrick said at that age we see black and white and not the nuance?
Amazing exchange! A bit off topic.. But does anyone connect this to a very overbearing 'patriarchal' structure of society? Women are biologically programmed to have children and cherish them, but if we as society use that strength and power of the woman as a given, women can and will struggle with their own identity
Chapters:
0:00 Intro
0:30 Meet Orenda Fink!
1:00 Orenda's Music Career
5:50 What I Loved About The Witch's Daughter
7:40 Navigating No-Contact With Abusive Parents
19:09 Recognizing the Abuse of Others
34:03 Children Don't Know Real From Fake
40:24 Carl Jung's Work vs Today's Trauma
44:02 The Journey of Therapy & Dreamwork
58:31 The Grief of Going No-Contact
1:03:03 Getting Yourself Back After Abuse
1:10:24 Learn More About Orenda Fink
1:11:06 Outro
My brother didn't get away from my family like I did, and he's now dead from a drug overdose. I've been grieving for him. I'm glad you mentioned these other stories of deceased siblings who never got away because now I know I'm not alone.
I am so sorry for your loss. I lost two brothers who took their own lives.
@loriwilde3977 I'm so sorry. Thank you for sharing. Prayers for healing. 🙏
I'm so sorry for your loss!
Big solidarity. 💜 two of my brothers are in the graveyard...one took their own life after a long addiction and the other diabetes..even though ive taken the long way to stability i made it out. No contact for 8 years with my insane mother.
@@Celestial_Cephalopod he never got away from my unhealthy family system: enmeshment, enabling, and emotionally immature parents. 😭
My elderly stepfather stated "we both" when mentioning how we were victims of abuse from my borderline mother. I'm over 60 and let him know we didn't start from an even playing field. I was six, he was mid 30's when he married her. He could have left her. I could not. I had no, no, no power or resiliency. Took me so many years to process all this sh**.
Presently battling the inner critic telling me no one cares about my thoughts on this video despite Patrick literally asking for feedback. This shiz is so deeply ingrained.
No one cares about anyone's comments -- until we read those comments.
Inner critics can be real jerks. I care and I'm sure others do too. I get so much from hearing other folk's perspectives and what they've learned on their journey. I hope you get the courage to share when you're ready!
That sounds like an internal part trying to protect you. I am recognizing this and believe that Internal Family Systems Therapy can help. Personally, the title got my attention, but, for me, I strongly suspect that witchcraft is going to be”poo pooed” as only mental illness. I would beg the question, which came first, rebellion against God, or mental illness? Way too much personal experience to be in any agreement with any denial of witchcraft . The occult is as real as the words I am typing, and more prevalent than many people realize. Family curses reach down through the bloodlines. God allows us to experience evil and the repercussions of it, and sent His Son, Yeshua Hamashiach, to be the propitiation for those sins, that we may not perish if we genuinely repent and confess our sins, only He can heal us of these wounds . And before anyone attacks me as being some religious fanatic, I am a sexual abuse survivor, and religious abuse survivor in that the same people who taught me about God were also my abusers, so I am quite worthy of respect and compassion as much as any other survivor on this forum.
I’m hearing you. I care and I care that you think nobody cares. Sometimes it’s just too much emotional effort to put these things into words.
You said that! And speak for many@@stephanieb2484
Thank you both. Very meaningful discussion. Let's take a moment to celebrate all of us that had to go through hell yet still manage to love and help people.
🎉🎉🎉
Yes! Absolutely! And noticing how often people respond to Patrick with "Thank you Patrick! You saved my llife"! Knowing those are not just words. Those are literal actual factual truths.
I’m 60 and I’m still that child but, I’m now the best part of that child in going no contact with a mother and siblings that shun me. Thank you both! 🥰
Good for you burry the hate move on never surrender you journey.
Hi Mary. Same! I am 60 and still that child....don't know yet who my child is, NC with NP mother and 2 older sibs that shun me also. Scapegoat child is me. Sad, grieving, in disbelief still. Just identifying as an orphan. She is sick mentally and damn cruel. I can never recall I caring moment with her ever. Just despises me but still wants full control. TOO LATE
I'm 57 and I'm wondering is there an average age that adult survivors of Narcissistic abuse or familial abuse go 💯 no contact and start inner work? On these life saving sites by Patrick Teahan, Crappy Childhood fairy, Richard Gannon, Dr. Ramani to name a few, there seems to be many of us in our 50-60 range that are open to this change.
@sharonmerton9812 it's not too late to protect your peace, seek JOY and nurture your inner child.
@@bewarefalsenonprofits Thanks. Working on this awareness. Go well.
Two beautiful souls ❤ Thank you for your vulnerability. I was surprised to hear Patrick’s mom is still alive. If you are reading this, we are with you, Patrick. We hurt just look you did. Thank you so much for what you do.
When I finally worked up enough courage to tell my mom that she hurt my feelings, she iced me out “to process”. Days later, my dad called me and said he just doesn’t understand it. My mom’s been crying all night and neither of them have slept. “When you throw a bomb, it doesn’t just affect the person it hits, it affects everyone around them” literally equating my feelings to a bomb. I told him he has unqualified to give me advice and that he was gaslighting and they’re both abusive. Felt good
I hope you’re no contact because that sh*t will never, ever stop.
@@Bronte866it’s so hard because it’s covert, and I’d lose my whole family. But I’m low contact with firm boundaries and in therapy. It has been a grieving process to reset my expectations of them
I remember how my Father said something similar to me...and it really hurt as i had 'assumed' that he understood me the most in the family...but on hindsight he had given me few opportunities to show me that in reality I never had his FULL SUPPORT
The stonewalling and triangulation are so unfair. Don't set yourself on fire to keep others warm.
So hopeful to hear people like you two. You've made it through.
Going no contact with family is so much harder than i thought.❤ Love to every soul that is inflicted with so much hurt, as a small innocent, beautiful child.
Thank you for sharing these videos! My father ran over my sweet kitty Casper right in front of me in the driveway. When he got out of truck he said “ he should have moved” and went inside. I was crying and holding Casper as he passed. My 2 brothers were fine with it when I told them later. I was the scapegoat in the family. If you can believe it my mother was even worse. The information you share is so helpful thank you again 🙏🏻😊 that happened when I was in my early 30’s I’m 56 now. And both my parents have passed.
My Dad did the same thing to my dog. He did it on purpose because he was mad the he would circle the car. So he gunned it. I saw the whole thing. He didn't care. I was left shattered in pieces. I was the scapegoat too. I was around 15.
@cherylthornton1544 it’s hard being the scapegoat. May we find a way to heal.
I’m so sorry I can’t even think straight.
Phew! Family scapegoat here. 55. In the middle of processing my trauma. It sure helps knowing I am not alone but at the same time we have to do our work in our own individual soul and body level...❤
@earthrooster1969 a poem I wrote about finding myself again
Ecstasy at finding me
I lost so long ago
The knowing smile
Just like a child
Who whispers all alone
The shell amends
Beneath it bends
A branch, a broken bough
It extends, it has no end
The soul it will allow
To slice and carve infinity
To mend the cracks
No one can see 🌟
I resonate totally with this My mother was an extreme right wing fundamentalist nationalist. My father was a warm hearted go-along for peace. I would appeal to him for support from my mother’s strict abuse, and he would always defer to her. Led me to years of abusive relationships. After my first divorce, my mother didn’t speak to me for two years and wouldn’t allow my father to speak to me either. They are big one now, and I am incapable of having a good, loving relationship. And I don’t care. Being alone feels like my comfort zone! Thank you for your videos, Patrick. I’m 79, and they are still very helpful to me in unraveling my childhood trauma, even though it is more religious abuse than those related to alcohol abuse.
It's all still abuse friend. Abuse: the coat of many colors.
Would love to see an interview with Stephanie Foo who wrote What My Bones Know: A Memoir of Healing from Complex Trauma !
Fantastic discussion - I'm going to get her book! It feels validating to hear a story so similar to my own. I 'awakened' far later in life and for those who say, "Why bother at this late stage?", I offer this: Awakening is not easy, but wow - it's amazing to see clearly for the first time in my life, like Lasic eye surgery for the SOUL!
Ditto, in these comments someone mentioned her audio book with music clips. The Witch's Daughter, read by the authors,.Orlinda will be my first audio book purchase.
@@bewarefalsenonprofits Ooh! I didn't even think about it being on audio - that's even better for me - thanks!!
15:45 “This will never end” was the exact same thought I had with my mother. My mother sounds like yours, lost my whole family because I had to keep the peace and didn’t fulfil my role that was expected of me. Ordered your book 🙏
Ditto for me. "This will never end... and I cannot do it another second."
I drove away almost 6 years ago and will never go back.
I'm there right now. It never ends so I've realized I need to walk away.
You’re right. It will never, ever stop. I so hoped that as they got older they would stop it. At 17 a therapist told me it will never stop and I should get away from them & never look back. I was too scared at 17 to take that advice. Biggest regret of my entire life.
@@Bronte866 I left 4x since 18. My final attempt was 44, I understand the regret. 🤗 but we finally broke free from the entanglement, that’s more than others.
Omg interview with Orenda!!!! I picked up this book from the library on my way out of town for the holidays, based on Patrick’s rec. I was roadtripping two thousand miles round trip to visit family of origin. I finally cracked open the book on day 5 when I had the mental space… and read the entire thing in one day, between rest stops in the desert and my hotel room. Orenda, this is such a masterpiece, and I felt an immediate kinship to your story. I am buying a copy of your book for me and another for my “witchy friend” across the country, as we do our recovery work together.
(Spoilers below)
One thing that really struck me was how understatedly you handled the disintegration of the “magic” narrative… throughout this book there’s the looming sense of magic might be brought in at any point to f* things up, with multiple uncanny instances of dreams coming true and witchcraft having tangible effects, with the exclamation point of the dream about George.
Finding out that none of your mother’s backstory likely even happened, makes this whole notion of “the magic coming true” fall apart at the seams, and that universe-shredding is just left to hang there. 😱
You’ve inspired me to pick up a writing pen myself after 12 years of silence in that area… my story has so many parallels to yours just with the parents’ genders reversed. Seeing you go through that with soul-staring honesty, gave me the vocabulary to be horrified on my own behalf, and I thank you for opening your spirit in vulnerability to so many who needed to hear you.
There’s something really comforting about Orenda sharing her story. It made me realize that we’re not alone in our struggles. Even though we come from different families, a lot of our traumas are surprisingly similar. Orenda and her husband are super talented and creative folks, and I loved watching them perform live. There was one show that really stood out to me; I could see how deeply connected Orenda was to her music. You could feel the pain in her songs as she sang. Now that I know where that pain comes from, it’s wild to think she has a story that’s so much like mine. Huge thanks to Orenda and Patrick for opening up and sharing their experiences.
I stopped the video early to note that locating personality pathology in a cerebral way is hands down one of the best things I did for myself.
It helped me see the fleas I had picked up in my home and differentiate toxic behavior I exhibited from me, survivor. I could adjust how I reacted to things.
Also, I believe that acute personality pathology (never fleas), is early soul death. The personality dies in early childhood, because it starves to death while in exile.
I feel for both my parents, who display sadistic tendencies along with other toxic behaviors.
They forced me to commit a kind of self death on repeat. They were unsuccessful because there is something in me that resisted.
I'm lucky there was this innate resistance. Most of the people I ended up around are dead. My parents threw me to the street, so, yeah.
I believe that intellectualizing recovery has a place.
I now help other people understand what happened. It helps
I like your explanation of early soul death. It explains the jealousy narcissists have for those of us that are excited by life and have original ideas and radiate energy. They want to eat that soul and live off of another's energy. Lately I have started to question my own resistance, where did my hubris come from? So thankful to not be OF them.
I really like how you worded this. Early soul death. Forced to commit self death over and over. This rings so true. I've always had this inner resistance too. My sister was always more susceptible to the abuse and is struggling with heavy denial and depression now. I hope her soul isn't too damaged. My emotionally immature mother especially targeted her
Having a very confusing dynamic with my mom and dad, I appreciate this one. I hope you two meet up again and chat further. Thank you.
12 mins in... so grateful you two beautiful wise souls are talking about the abuse enabler parent! And the cyclical futility of it all!
Patrick and Orenda - thank you for your discussion. I felt every bit of it with you, which helps confirm, as I oscillate within myself, that I have indeed had this childhood. Going non contact 8 months ago - low contact really, wished happy new year......always bad ha. More BS that really is SO obvious. So much cycling of grief once one pinches oneself when nearly returning to the illusion of how it was - NO. Then confirming, better off as an orphan than the "cinderella la la happy family nonsense" Scapegoat here. to hear both of your thoughts and feelings around this period was gold for me. Thank you both 🥰🙏
I found this hopeful at the end. Being 68 and just coming to terms with my cPTSD I needed to hear there is no age limit. ❤
I like to see us as unbiological siblings 🖐️🥲
Wow! Love the The Casket Girls, Chemical Dizzy. Good stuff. I found this interview helpful because it wasn't a clinical lesson about childhood trauma, it was two highly relatable people having a broad stroke conversation about their paths to healing from childhood trauma . I really needed this because I need all the reminders I can get that you can be a childhood trauma survivor and you don't have to hide or be ashamed. Thank you both!
it has become easier for me to go no contact after being punished with the silent treatment over and over again for decades.... Why feel guilty about leaving a toxic relationship when they are so eager ( and able) to discard you ?~ it helps with the guilt knowing they can live with out me . Just the time it takes to recover your cognitive abilities after abuse is reason enough to go no contact.
Oh, this comment hit my heart. I’ve come to this same conclusion, (been no contact from my bio-fam for almost two years) but I haven’t been able to articulate my thoughts this clearly. Thank you for sharing this. It’s really helping my brain sort through my thoughts. ❤️
My mother placed my brother up to defend her against our father instead of leaving. I had set her and siblings up in a nice home but she returned again. My brother died at home Our family fell apart. I was the scapegoat and I feel my brother realised this was all too much. I was no contact and my mother passed recently. She failed to get help for childhood trauma and grief and I learned from her failings and am the only one who has. This is a topic that many truly can look to becoming aware of constant unhealed wounds and heal. My parents were warring teenagers.
Hello. The book is really amazing. I listened to it on Audible, read by Orenda. The added bits of music were very nice, making it even more personal. Great interview.
This discussion is truly amazing…
We can all learn so much from your discussions ✨❤️✨
This was a beautiful calming informative and relatable conversation - thanks yall !
This is so validating for me, thank you for this great therapy.
So many good things (crazy mother & codependent dad) but the end bit… I am 65 and retired and joined Adult Children of Alcoholics and Dysfunctional Families 11 months ago. I am ready to continue growing into my authentic self. And I don’t want to leave this planet not knowing who I am. Thanks!
I'm not a mechanic but I can confidently change an air-conditioning condenser. I'm not an electrician but I can confidently diagnose and fix a neutral wire issue. I'm not a carpenter but I can confidently install and seal wooden decking. I'm not a psychiatrist but I can confidently identify that my Dad is a malignant compensatory narcissist to the point of it being a disorder! I firmly believe you can assess your own family members for disorder of this kind. And maybe certain presidents...
Love the last bit ❤
Haha. Pretty much
I really appreciate this conversation. Thank you for doing it. It means so much to hear people talking about the other parent after dealing with the problem parent. And so many other things. The other parent really did and does need to get the kids out of there.
I definitely want to read her book.
This is a phenomenal interview. Please do more videos like this!
I enjoyed hearing you interview Orenda! I hadn’t heard of her book or music, I looked up her music and it’s amazing. I’m definitely getting her book. So many insights and very inspiring to see people who go through trauma and still thrive!!
This is an amazing conversation... Thank you two for sharing your learnings, experiences, insights, advice, etc.
Wow....Must get this book....here I am thinking I was the Witch's daughter! Thank you, grateful for this podcast.
Listening to you two talk has been incredibly eye opening and has put to words so many things that I had been feeling. What a meeting of the minds. Thank you!
Oh I read Orenda's book right when it came out and it resonated with me so so much. I felt seen and contained and embraced at the same time. She has a beautiful raw way to portrait what some of us went through but could not articulate. Thank you Patrick for allowing Orenda to use your platform.❤
Started reading your book after Patrick recommended it. Loving it and loving this conversation. Thank you, Patrick. Thank you, Orenda.
I feel so seen and validated in everything you two say. Thank you so much! It's such a confusing place to be in, full of heartbreak and self gaslighting and like you pointed out, this is your normal and you have to re-learn what actual human behaviour is like! Or you'll most likely perpetuate the cycle, either as an obliviously codependent victim of another broken human or as the next generation of witch herself.
Glad to be able to tune in. 4:30 Patricks skills in the music realm awesome. I like seeing people expressing themselves healthily. 😁💡💯I think thats really good for people. The loss of normalcy huh? Well, i can definitely opine on that. Im sure many of us knew, dealt with, or suffered as a result of, the codependent parent, in all its toxicity." 🙏💯
Thank you 2 ❤
Great interview. Looking forward to reading the Witches Daughter.
Y'ALL! This conversation could not have shown up at a more important time for me. My mother's "stories" about events from her early life I am just now at 64 discovering may or may not have actually happened😢
I opted not to have kids but if I did I wouldn’t tell them any of the stuff that happened to me. That’s crazy.
Great interview and what a lovely soul Orenda is. Thank you.
Can’t watch now. Will watch later!
Fantastic interview, will be getting the book. Her family set up was the same as mine. Great insights to ponder.
Thank you Patrick, and Orenda! Love this interview and now I have another book in my queue! So called shadow work is hard and doesn't always lead us to the outcome we hoped for (in tack family, decent connection, being understood, etc), and often it leads to no contact just to survive and try to heal enough to do deeper work. I'm no contact with my mom seven years ago and my dad by proxy.Also one sister and, up until his life threatening motorcycle accident this year, a brother too. My dysfunctional and often highly toxic family has all had to be in regular group texts and it has heightened my inner turmoil about not being at a place where I can "forgive and move on" like I've been conditioned to believe is best. But like my therapist said, what if healing doesn't look like being able to tolerate being close to the abuser, what if it means your system tells you that's not safe and you finally listen. And grieve. So, I do, and Im still in the years long process of grieving and unearthing the pain, damage, wounds trauma and abuse and trying to heal from it all.
Thank you both for being there for us who are trying to dry the work and not leave this life without knowing ourselves. ❤❤❤ Peace, love, happy new year to you both.
Really lovely helpful conversation. Gives me hope to see others who have had done the hard work to reprocess trauma and to reconnect with their inner child to then take what they have learned and share it with the rest of us crawling around in the shadows. Brave & inspiring
Lovely conversation! Very rewarding for me. ❤️🙏
This is soooooooo good. Thank You both!
This is exactly my story with my mother. She will never believe that I'm not the problem. I love her, too. It's heartbreaking. I had to go no contact.
I love this guest and can relate but just to clarify, actual Wiccans only practice "White Magic" and any "spell" is believed to come back to the Witch 3x as much as the person they did the spell for. Kind of like a Golden Rule on steroids. One of my ancestors was persecuted in Salem and "Witch" is often used as a derogatory toward women, never men. So hopefully we clarify that this is a beneficial religion! - signed, a Wiccan! 🧡💛
Blessings sister! It is so true. Thanks for commenting. Our religion is commonly misunderstood and maligned. It is prone to religious abuse, though, just like any ideology! Hopefully our loving-kindness and respect for life as core values shine brighter than foolish malignant practitioners.
May love shine bright upon you and all beings!
@@Norton57Many thank you for those beautiful words sister. We are protectors! Yes so many fake practitioners use our terms to abuse. This is not allowed! May the narrators of this video heal and all life be respected! Many blessings to you 💛
Too much apology and guilt around cutting off toxicity. It is taking care of your one and only life and spirit. We are too forgiving of evil doers. They are dangerous and unconscionable to us all. I think it's ok if you don't love your narcissistic parent from afar. It is ok to axe them from your life. They make thier choices. You have a right to your well being.
@tahnihandal9328 ... re; your comment - fair dues, I get you, correct, tfs !
I absolutely agree. Often the feelings are more complicated though... and sometimes we stay in it because we love someone in the family system who we'd lose if we went no contact. For me, my sister for example.
Yes! To everything, but lately I've been super fearful that the ways that I'm charming are fake or manipulative. I appreciate having this validated as something others who are in similar healing boats go through as well
Dead-On : ) Kudos to 'You' Patrick @ 18;07 - 19;07, tfs & ''highlighting'' the ''importance'' of this ~ ...
Could you do a video on the link between having nightmares (or night terrors, in my case) and having a traumatic childhood? or maybe more generally - types of dreams that may come up if you have had a dysfunctional family?
As an aside, looking good, Patrick, love the haircut; pro, clean, very GQ, with a touch of rock and roll, works very well. Thank you for all the insights shared and validating content. Top of the line teacher, online. Is this real life? This should be, the standard irl, but it's not.
You've helped me deal with previously ongoing intense emotional responses to abuse, multigenerational neurodiverse trauma, scapegoating.. and yet there are so many blessings to be created, and vulnerabilities to protect in the youngest beloved family member's lives. My respect for you, has helped deepen self respect, relatively. And you clarify, validating my own insights on situations I'm painfully the only one witnessing.. determined to use experiences, knowledge, and shared joys, and acceptence to offset distress trauma in beloved little one's lives, be a positive mirror, and hardwire some self esteem and creative joy instead.. thank you
Yeah he’s got the hair right.
Agree! His haircut is so good!
Y'all just read my life! I'm feeling so validated rn. Bless you for this courage 💜
Amazing interview, very relatable, so many gems from you both. Thank You in so many ways.
omg tell Todd Fink hello :P I'm wearing my The Faint concert shirt from the time we went to Omaha. We talked with him at the merch booth about skating. True power couple. They both helped me in their each ways during a dark time
Great video, Patrick!
This is helping me, I've just gone no contact with my Sister, we're the only ones left in our immediate family. The guilt with the 1st Xmas holiday has been difficult. I feel free not being around her narcissistic abuse, but picturing her at Xmas was hard, and I was 2nd guessing myself.
Also no contact with my sister. Really goes against so much conditioning! We need to maintain boundaries for our own mental health. ☮️
I just checked out The Casket Girls - bloody fantastic indie music. There's always a great takeaway with Patrick's videos but I didn't see this one coming 💜
One Love!
Always forward, never ever backward!!
☀️☀️☀️
💚💛❤️
🙏🏿🙏🙏🏼
I have listened to this twice
This was so helpful. Thank you both! Her story about her mother is so similar to my story. Pretty sur my mother has a mental disorder. Just went no contact and have cut off 2 of her other children. Its sucks but here we are.
Brilliant, insightful discussion...I will get the book. The title is intriguing and draws me. I'm curious what's lurking in my shadow that beckons to me. Thank you for this very helpful and thought provoking conversation.
I never had an issue telling my parents about themselves and not having them in my life. Going to no contact with my siblings was beyond hard and I cried for days letting myself grieve. As someone who believes in demons and stuff, this would not help me in my dreams. I pray that this book helps others.
I can relate so much to what you’re saying about the sibling fallout being even harder ❤️🩹
@sjohan7835 right lots of people talk about the parents, which is understandable but not many people I have seen talk about the sibling aspect. I would just like people to know their not alone in the siblings thing. ☺️
I totally understand. I went no contact with my mother once and sadly it also meant going no or very low contact with my sister because of how my mum had "converted" her to see the error in me. My sister kept working away at me to get me to come back and started to reiterate manipulative narratives at me that were quite off putting tbh. It's the reality though. No matter how strong the love between siblings might be (and ours was very strong), if they're not ready to leave, the toxic family system has the stronger hold on them. I eventually allowed minimal contact after 6 months but slowly my mother has pried her way back into my life. It's nerve-wrecking actually and produces huge anxiety spikes in me. I need to reduce contact again. And no visits.
@@mandarinadreux9572 i am trying to lower my expectations and just accept that my siblings will likely continue to side with/enable our abusive mother. It is hard to let go of those relationships & hope that they will wake up and see reality for what it is
Great Interview, you are great artist. Can identify with much of the mother dynamic your testimony book is about❤.
August Osage County and Divine Secrets of the Yaya Sisterhood and Shameless all represent parts of my life.
I feel that.
Great music
Orenda mentioned that she's still looking to understand the narcissists mind. I'm similar also. Sam Vaknin thoroughly describes the mindset of cluster B people. His videos have helped me to grasp the cluster B insanity better than anyone else. Can't recommend him enough. He's a diagnosed narcissist which might put people off but he speaks from research and psych literature, factual and his own well thought out ideas.
Learning about how profoundly different and malformed their personalities are, even though they mimick being pretty normal alot of the time, has been such a foundational support for me realising I'm actually ok and they're the broken one... Very noticeable shift in me when I got this. Took Sam's articulated knowledge for me to understand it.
Not trying to take anything away from this channel, it's also profoundly helpful
Wow thank you so much for sharing this. I have not checked him out yet. Seeing content produced by psychopaths their psychology from their own perspective helped me understand one parent but delving into narc stuff could help me more with the other unsafe parent
She, conundrum she
SHe, the quest in question. ShE? me? Ms. Tear E
I’m nearly 2 years on now and no regrets but I really wish this finding myself thing would hurry up
Great!
I think people like our mothers are so afraid of their own self-loathing and faults, that to admit even a small fault would open a crack in the protective wall that would expose the inner ugliness to others but worst of all, to themselves. They can’t bear to acknowledge the deep deep worthlessness they feel and to admit it, almost feels like death. They scramble constantly, covering that up, with overachieving, competition, controlling others, making others feel smaller.
I think you're spot on. And i think these are actually really childlike feelings because they stayed in the guilt mindset of a "bad" 2 year old and never were able to become more mature for whatever reason, be it trauma, bad parenting, predispositions or something else... someone above me stated that they think it is early soul death from a soul having been dissociated away from so aggressively for such a long time that it starved. I thiught that image was also quite thought-provoking since it takes personal resilience into account
My mom used religion in the way Orenda's mom used witchcraft. She thought she had ESP and could influence events with her mind. She was a lot like the mother in "Carrie". Supernatural curiosity got completely ruined for me and I'm an atheist now because of it.
Hopefully, you can at some point come into your spiritually. Listen to a bunch of near death experiences, it'll blow your mind
My step mother was a witch and my dad was completely devoted to her. I was an inconvenience to her and she scared me. I was never able to have a consistent relationship w my dad becauseof this. It hurt me so much that i had to go no contact and just found out that both my dad and stepmother have died. My dad's obituary didn't mention me either. Such petty, hurtful people. I always thought he'd come around. I was so wrong.
What is the line between the inner child work vs subconscious programming (behavior/thinking)? There is a lot of indirect teachings from in most cases generational trauma that would be difficult to put the blame on the parent totally because they don’t know any better either…
I am also a Witches Daughter...my mother was actually born on October 31...Halloween!
Here for the algorithm
I have an awareness that these mothers and fathers who can act out their issues do it because it is supported. Taking full responsibility is placed upon others. A candle goes out once we starve it if oxygen. The gift is being aware of other damaged and toxic vampires before they are welcomed into my life
Such an amazing read! I too could not stop listening (audio book)! From this book I got the recommendation to read, "Understanding The Borderline Mother," by Christine Ann Lawson. Another one I was totally pulled in by. Highly recommend.
21:10 THE ABUSE AROUND PERCEPTION 💥💥💥
My brother is in hospital due to a suicide attempt. We tried to go no contact but could not due to having autism as well as all tge mental health isdues. I wake up daily wantingvtovend my life but i wintcdonitvwhilst myblively dad is still with us. Mum passed away 6 years ago now. Its hard for him to live alone as he has autism too but at least now we can have a very good friendship without her trying to keep us apart. X
Excellent conversation - I wonder which Elliott Smith book you are reading/were referring to, Patrick. 📚
Love it 😊😊😊
I had a lot of similar experience with my borderline mother, its almost shocking. However what I wanted to say is that I suspect that being a daughter to a borderline mother is probably more dangerous than being a son. My sisters has had it worse than my brother and me.
ok going to listen and i know it's going to be validating and triggering. will report back after!
I had to pause the video because Orenda's mother sounds just like mine. Never apologized. Not really. She would say the words "All I can do is apologize," as if saying that sentence as a preface *was* the apology. But she never actually acknowledged what she said or did. I also similarly would have to apologize, even if it was just "I didn't mean it," because she just wanted to be absolved of any sense of responsibility. If I apologized then that meant she was blameless and it was my fault for being hurt, for having feelings, etc.
I'll be candid dealing with chronic drinker us difficult ad a child but much worse once u r a adult . It just never stops. Too much drama u learn to ignore everyone's constant comments.
Educating myself and putting a label on my mother's crazy behaviours which was so confusing and infuriating was a grand braking!🧐👏 That helped me to move on with my healing as the penny finally dropped how that works and why in personality disorder. It was eye-opening like being enlightened by the God😉 It was very profound for me, and let me move with my healing. Through the process, I could understand more and put a label instead call it crazy or being constantly confused to the level that I felt I was losing my marbles!
How someone can be so double face-bitch and a compulsive liar 🤔 The personality disorder labels were a lot for me!
I understand Dx from afar, and the current pandemic of irresponsibility around it...yet by their fruits you shall know them....just saying (LMFT here).
One parent more like the kids...a victim too...😮..80pc of survival irish families in the 80s...great interview...
Projective identification..anna freud...minute 17.17...the witch was trying to resolve her childhood thru her child...total blindness to reality
Invisibility...unseen child...a hologram...v.sad.
My witch mother framed my husband for scapegoating me. Then she lied horribly and created paranoia in our adult children and now we could not net our first granddaughter. The pain is unbearable. She is targeting my husband...now they goaded us to kill ourselves. It is so dark.
❤
54:02
They don’t perceive a separate self , from them, my experience.
I was wondering if at ‘the age of 5’ did she take those experiences or behaviors like casting vengeful spells into her own relationships because as Patrick said at that age we see black and white and not the nuance?
Amazing exchange!
A bit off topic..
But does anyone connect this to a very overbearing 'patriarchal' structure of society?
Women are biologically programmed to have children and cherish them, but if we as society use that strength and power of the woman as a given, women can and will struggle with their own identity
Potential ADD lol