There are a number of cores/archetypes that work with White Forest. Melodious is another that also synergizes with the deck quite well. Covers the weaknesses of Forest (Shifter, Droll and Deck Lockdown) with Melodious hardly needing searches and summon from decks or the graveyard via the Ostinato, Sonata and Canon plays. You essentially pivot into playing a pure Melodius deck if one of those cards gets played against you. The main spice however, is the Refrain and Couplet scales, which then allows you to play around a lot of handtraps including Imperm. Melodious/White Forest has various gears it can turn to if plan A isn’t working.
Would love to see your take on Fiendsmith White Woods post banned list. I found the Kash package a little clunky but the Fiendsmith being the best for Caesar turbo to play around Nib.
A really cool list, very similar to snake kash. Definitely is nice to see a different side engine. The fiend smith stuff makes sense, the only problem is trying to justify its price.
I love the idea of the kash cards. You could play Psychic end punisher + crimson dragon to get to shooting majestic star dragon for a good omni negate card
@@TopTierYugioh definitely. No one plays punisher these days it can be a hard card to out for some decks. I have like 3 variants of white forest that I play rn and my favorite one so far is a mostly gas build with bystials, toy box and a small centurion package it can only fit like 9-12 non engine but it produces so much advantage and interruptions that it just doesn’t even matter it’s so hard to deal with I can share the list if you’re interested
lol fair point, the toy cards are great into hand traps, but unfortunately are weaker in some other areas, so it’s a bit of a trade off in a few regards
Great suggestion! I’ll work on getting some test hands up by this weekend! Being able to make Beatrice to send Astellar to revive really helps the consistency, went to another regional yesterday, and it came up so many times to do that play
Ngl the only reason I wanna make this deck is bc the synchros are beautiful Also, deck lockdown is a silly card in the last combo; " well I full combo'd, now you're not allowed to seach your deck at all, enjoy
Thanks! The toy cards are really good, but my main concern with them was how weak they were in simple game states, without WF cards, or going 2nd. As much as I want the WF engine to win all of my games, sometimes you have to rely on the side engines, but the Toy cards aren’t quite able to carry when they need to in my limited experience at least
@@TopTierYugioh Similar experience here too! Gonna test out the Runic version next and my current build is quite similar to yours, but I like your Kash card ratio more.
Oh yeah definitely, the Kashtira cards are just good in general. A hand of like Planet, Box, Elzette/Astellar would be sooooo good. And without the Fiendsmiths, you’d have a lot more extra deck space too!
Do you think there's a way to play only Kashtira White Woods? I want to play this but man Fiendsmith is out of my budget for the time being. I was gonna go with White Woods Runick, but i might run this variant instead
Definitely, but I just wished the levels matched up more or that there was more synergy. For example Fenrir + a White Forest card doesn’t do anything lol. The Kashtira cards are just so good on their own though plus they work so well with Astellar and Elzette that you definitely could just play that, you’d just need a way to fill out the rest of the deck. I want to experiment more with the Runick builds, they definitely seem interesting right now too!
Tbh, with so any other decks to play, I haven't spend as much time playing this version of WF since the list. Beatrice can't really be replaced, it was such a huge consistency hit because now you basically have to hard draw Astellar/Elzette. There is't really a good replacement for that, and then with Lacrima and Apo banned, the deck loses a lot of power too, as well as the ability to play though hand traps as easily
I really want to play the 2nd Rucia, but my fear is how it only really works with like 6-7 other cards in the deck, I don’t want to call it a brick, but the idea of playing more of it just in case there’s a HT for that 6-7 cards feels a bit off. How have you liked 3 copies?
@@TopTierYugioh Definitely, it also feel nice going second. Removal can feel tough to play around going second so it can be nice to put another body on board
Gomna be honest, this deck seems really poorly built around the idea that your Astellar will always resolve. I'm sure this bangs at a small locals, but all the better decks are playing hand traps. The reason we play Toy cards is that they plus you and let you play through your Astellar getting Veiler'd/Imperm'd/Ash'd/etc.
Fair criticism, appreciate the honesty! I’ve already played this exact list at a few regionals where the deck has performed pretty well, and so I can definitely confirm it plays through hand traps pretty well. With the fiendsmiths, you can make Apollousa before even summoning Astellar, or with Kashtira, you have enough extra bodies to force hand traps and pivot extra cards into fiendsmiths lines. The combo I showed was the most basic play of the deck, which is definitely vulnerable, but in real games, I’d have probably also drawn Planet, Unicorn, Fenrir, Terraforming, Rucia, Tales, Engraver, Tract, Crossout, or CbtG, so 16 cards that all would play around the Astellar getting interrupted. Any extras of those help play around additional HTs, and if not, my own HTs to slow down the opponent and stay in the game. While the toy cards are good into hand traps, my issue with them was that they’re pretty weak on their own where as the fiendsmith and Kashtira cards are both strong even without WF. So in simple game states, those engines can just carry the deck to wins sometimes. Unicorn + hand traps can sometimes just beat Snake Eyes or Yubel with their extra decks being so limited now I think the biggest issue with this deck right now is the format overall where Snake Eye and Yubel are clearly better decks, and then on the other end of the spectrum, there’s Tenpai. White Forest, regardless of side engines and variants, are affected by both what Tenpai does to beat Snake Eye/Yubel (Shifter, board breakers) and what other decks do to beat Tenpai (Barrier), on top of the general tech against fiendsmiths (Bystials and Droll). So I think the bigger issues are not Ash/Veiler/Imperm on Astellar, it’s all the other stuff in the format right now. I’m working on a test hand video for the deck now that’ll show I’m playing through hand traps, it’ll be up this weekend, so if you have some time, definitely check back on that! Hopefully it helps shed some light on the plays!
This was an excellent and informative video!
Glad it was helpful!
There are a number of cores/archetypes that work with White Forest.
Melodious is another that also synergizes with the deck quite well. Covers the weaknesses of Forest (Shifter, Droll and Deck Lockdown) with Melodious hardly needing searches and summon from decks or the graveyard via the Ostinato, Sonata and Canon plays. You essentially pivot into playing a pure Melodius deck if one of those cards gets played against you.
The main spice however, is the Refrain and Couplet scales, which then allows you to play around a lot of handtraps including Imperm.
Melodious/White Forest has various gears it can turn to if plan A isn’t working.
Very interesting idea! Definitely going to have to try this out!
Would love to see your take on Fiendsmith White Woods post banned list. I found the Kash package a little clunky but the Fiendsmith being the best for Caesar turbo to play around Nib.
Just when i thought i wasnt gonna need a fiendsmith engine
I see this list.
I currently was going for white forest centurion build
I hear the collective sigh😅
A really cool list, very similar to snake kash. Definitely is nice to see a different side engine. The fiend smith stuff makes sense, the only problem is trying to justify its price.
It’s so good, but at the same time, the deck works perfectly well without the Fiendsmith cards and with other engines instead
I love the idea of the kash cards. You could play Psychic end punisher + crimson dragon to get to shooting majestic star dragon for a good omni negate card
That was the first card that came to my mind
Oh now that’s a really good idea, especially with Dogwood everywhere right now, Punisher otks through it easy haha
@@TopTierYugioh definitely. No one plays punisher these days it can be a hard card to out for some decks. I have like 3 variants of white forest that I play rn and my favorite one so far is a mostly gas build with bystials, toy box and a small centurion package it can only fit like 9-12 non engine but it produces so much advantage and interruptions that it just doesn’t even matter it’s so hard to deal with I can share the list if you’re interested
I'm interested @@GinFaced
@@make10253017 okay I’ll upload to dueling book or ygoprodeck so there’s a clickable link and not a list of 70 cards lol
What you say at 36:32 is the reason to play toy cards lol.
lol fair point, the toy cards are great into hand traps, but unfortunately are weaker in some other areas, so it’s a bit of a trade off in a few regards
Nice list. Got first yesterday at locals with it. Minus 1 engraver
That’s awesome! Glad to hear that! Would you make any changes?
@@TopTierYugioh yea I added 1 more Silvy.
this is a cool list
Thanks!!
Excellent video, we would like to see test hand, to be able to measure consistency, please.
Great suggestion! I’ll work on getting some test hands up by this weekend! Being able to make Beatrice to send Astellar to revive really helps the consistency, went to another regional yesterday, and it came up so many times to do that play
Ngl the only reason I wanna make this deck is bc the synchros are beautiful
Also, deck lockdown is a silly card in the last combo; " well I full combo'd, now you're not allowed to seach your deck at all, enjoy
This whole archetype has amazing artwork! First deck in awhile that I’ve wanted to rarity bump, love the deck lockdown idea!! 🤔
Incredibly cool and innovative list. Curious how you felt about the toy cards?
Thanks! The toy cards are really good, but my main concern with them was how weak they were in simple game states, without WF cards, or going 2nd. As much as I want the WF engine to win all of my games, sometimes you have to rely on the side engines, but the Toy cards aren’t quite able to carry when they need to in my limited experience at least
@@TopTierYugioh Similar experience here too! Gonna test out the Runic version next and my current build is quite similar to yours, but I like your Kash card ratio more.
good video :)
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it!
Could white forest deck use the kashtira engine without fiendsmith? I might want to add kashtira with the other normal engines like toy or centur-ion
Oh yeah definitely, the Kashtira cards are just good in general. A hand of like Planet, Box, Elzette/Astellar would be sooooo good. And without the Fiendsmiths, you’d have a lot more extra deck space too!
What is the music pls?
Do you think there's a way to play only Kashtira White Woods? I want to play this but man Fiendsmith is out of my budget for the time being. I was gonna go with White Woods Runick, but i might run this variant instead
Definitely, but I just wished the levels matched up more or that there was more synergy. For example Fenrir + a White Forest card doesn’t do anything lol. The Kashtira cards are just so good on their own though plus they work so well with Astellar and Elzette that you definitely could just play that, you’d just need a way to fill out the rest of the deck. I want to experiment more with the Runick builds, they definitely seem interesting right now too!
Updated deck profile with Beatrice banned?
Tbh, with so any other decks to play, I haven't spend as much time playing this version of WF since the list. Beatrice can't really be replaced, it was such a huge consistency hit because now you basically have to hard draw Astellar/Elzette. There is't really a good replacement for that, and then with Lacrima and Apo banned, the deck loses a lot of power too, as well as the ability to play though hand traps as easily
Bro you have a new deck list without apo and beatrice ?
Definitely working on it man! Losing Apo is huge, but there’s a lot more space in the extra deck now at least 😂
@@TopTierYugioh i try too haha
@@TopTierYugioh it’s so hard you have a News ?
@@TopTierYugioh bro i need news i am lost i have ycs Lille i dont know how play my decklist
Personally going with 3 Rucia. But one silvy for sure
I really want to play the 2nd Rucia, but my fear is how it only really works with like 6-7 other cards in the deck, I don’t want to call it a brick, but the idea of playing more of it just in case there’s a HT for that 6-7 cards feels a bit off. How have you liked 3 copies?
@@TopTierYugioh Definitely, it also feel nice going second. Removal can feel tough to play around going second so it can be nice to put another body on board
When you dropping the combos ?
Today at 6pm EST! I'll reply later with the link for ya!
@@TopTierYugioh thanks man appreciate the videos
I’m playing my version as an omega handloop for 4 with colossus and protos and rabbit with a continuous trap set
It’s been super fun and strong
That’s awesome! You can hand looo for 4 AND have thunder Dragon Colossus + Protos? Lol just to be sure, because that’s an insane board haha
@@TopTierYugioh yeah it’s hyper consistent
If you get handtrapped even better cuz your opponent is helping you hand loop them
Gomna be honest, this deck seems really poorly built around the idea that your Astellar will always resolve. I'm sure this bangs at a small locals, but all the better decks are playing hand traps. The reason we play Toy cards is that they plus you and let you play through your Astellar getting Veiler'd/Imperm'd/Ash'd/etc.
Fair criticism, appreciate the honesty! I’ve already played this exact list at a few regionals where the deck has performed pretty well, and so I can definitely confirm it plays through hand traps pretty well. With the fiendsmiths, you can make Apollousa before even summoning Astellar, or with Kashtira, you have enough extra bodies to force hand traps and pivot extra cards into fiendsmiths lines. The combo I showed was the most basic play of the deck, which is definitely vulnerable, but in real games, I’d have probably also drawn Planet, Unicorn, Fenrir, Terraforming, Rucia, Tales, Engraver, Tract, Crossout, or CbtG, so 16 cards that all would play around the Astellar getting interrupted. Any extras of those help play around additional HTs, and if not, my own HTs to slow down the opponent and stay in the game.
While the toy cards are good into hand traps, my issue with them was that they’re pretty weak on their own where as the fiendsmith and Kashtira cards are both strong even without WF. So in simple game states, those engines can just carry the deck to wins sometimes. Unicorn + hand traps can sometimes just beat Snake Eyes or Yubel with their extra decks being so limited now
I think the biggest issue with this deck right now is the format overall where Snake Eye and Yubel are clearly better decks, and then on the other end of the spectrum, there’s Tenpai. White Forest, regardless of side engines and variants, are affected by both what Tenpai does to beat Snake Eye/Yubel (Shifter, board breakers) and what other decks do to beat Tenpai (Barrier), on top of the general tech against fiendsmiths (Bystials and Droll). So I think the bigger issues are not Ash/Veiler/Imperm on Astellar, it’s all the other stuff in the format right now.
I’m working on a test hand video for the deck now that’ll show I’m playing through hand traps, it’ll be up this weekend, so if you have some time, definitely check back on that! Hopefully it helps shed some light on the plays!