Sure but there's a clear difference between being able to hop on netplay at most times of the day and be able to find a game OR having to go on discord and ping people to be able to MAYBE get a set with one person who's also probably mismatched with your skill level. I don't like using the term dead game because it isn't really accurate but for me I really have no interest in playing... We'll say "discord fighters". I'm not a very social person and finding people to play with is akin to actual work. Most days I don't want to go through that entire process I just wanna hit the "play online" button and play random people. If you're content with the discord fighter style that's awesome as long as you aren't implying that should be a valid option for everyone Also if you're just talking about simply playing with a friend or something that's totally cool and I'm always down to learn a niche game but that's also kind of a different experience than being able to grind, improve, go to tournaments, etc. Point being I think the term dead game is kind of stupid but it can be important to note the difference I'm trying to express here.
@@azumashinobi1559 fair honestly if you haven't tried playing through discord I would recommend it though, it's pretty fun especially some of the older arcsys games and french bread games, they're usually super active especially bbcf, xrd, and uni2 but yeah I think the term discord fighter is a better term as opposed to "dead game" I think that term should just be reserved for games you literally can't play anymore like the cycle frontier and multiversus or games that need multiple people that you just can't find games on like team fortress classic or ricochet
Rev2 and dragonball are far from dead, its a shame games like bbtag and dnf are in the state theyre in though. Put in at least 50 hours of bbtag, my boy akihiko was unstoppable
Are you talking about pc? Because Rev2 on ps is almost deserted since Strive came out, apart from private rooms (which you have to find or ask to participate in)...
Kinda miffed at how glossed over AoCF was. If I can just go on a tangent here: It's actually the 6th Touhou fighting game and the 3rd to go for the "float" style of gameplay that has been built up since 2013's Hopeless Masquerade (Touhou 13.5). A thing with the float fighters is that they've always had an uphill battle in terms of any shot of popularity. Especially considering the first 3 Touhou fighters were more grounded affairs that played a little more traditionally with the most popular of which being Hisoutensoku (Touhou 12.3). Especially bolsterd by the fact that 12.3 has community made rollback which has done wonders for international play. Of all the things to deteur players from 15.5, the new style and the majority new roster with only 5 carry overs from 12.3 (even then their movesets function differently) may be two significant ones but the biggest killer is simply put; no rollback. You're relying on a very scuffed delay based code to play with people and it makes any international scene all the more harder to maintain. It's a shame though since there are a lot of things that carry over between games as well as some other new additions to it people don't talk about much, Touhou fighters traditionally have a bullet > melee > dash (graze) circle as their hit > grab > shield flowchart with things like shields and grabs still in the game and AoCF balances these pretty well. A unique thing to AoCF is a new mechanic called Perfect Possession. Basically it turns the game into an interesting tag fighter where your partner is less their own character and more so an extension of your main character. The community refers to both point and anchor as master and slave... Mainly also in part due to how the story calls it. It creates this interesting resource management as to whether you can cash out more damage in a combo with a tag action, swap over to try and heal your health, burst or break out of a combo with your master/slave or save your possession meter to try and build up to your ultimate super. The float style gameplay is also probably the tightest in this game as no external gimmicks are going to make things lop sided and makes getting use to the fact that the central lane characters are on is effectively the ground, making jump ins and jump cancels have these tight but exhilerating strings. That's my whole speal on it though. I might have some details messed up but it's a game that has gotten me more into fighters again as a whole. Hope for the day it does get rollback.
I'll be honest, I've actually kinda preferred AoCF over Soku, as fun as Soku is to play as awful as the netcode can be on the Switch version, I've had fun learning the game, trying to play around my mains (Doremy, Sumireko, & especially Ichirin) having pretty slow pokes, & overall feeling more appealing to me it helps that it's also the only fighting game I really have to play with my friend group
really messed up how the very next game he said "I didn't put VF on the list because I don't know anything about it and I don't want to show me playing it badly" when that's what he did with AoCF
It's still important for their to be a single player experience for people who enjoy different characters it gives new players ways to learn whilst still having fun not everyone takes fighting games seriously and most casual players don't want to spend 3 hours in training mode every day
@@corbinallen4562 ok but… that’s literally my point go learn The basics of your character in training mode it takes like 30 minutes at the most to figure out how the most complex character in the game works bro
@@Sewer-coon that works for learning basics but it's far easier to improve as a new player with a good single player mode rather than losing over and over again online
DNF may have been squandered but there's one thing you have to admit is crazy: There was a community tournament a while back where the matcherino surpassed $1000-which is INSANE for a "dead game"
this has been repeated a bajillion times but 12.3 and 7.5 are generally considered the “good touhou fighters” (also yes, it is canon and HM has one of the best stories of any touhou game but it’s attached to one of the worst games lol) but 12.3 especially is a fairly technical game that’s also very well balanced and. importantly feels good to play, it doesn’t have the floaty stuff going on and while defense is strong it’s not as absurdly strong as in 15.5. generally it’s a much stronger game and the community, although bad, is still active and growing. it’s a game i’d recommend trying at least once since i enjoy it quite a lot and it’s actually one of the only good implementations of “build your character’s moveset” for any fighting game that has that feature imho.
For people interested in BBTAG: The scene is still active! All the discords are active and alive, and there's plenty of tournaments! There's the main weekly being Doncons Big 8 on Tuesdays. There's a new bi-weekly happening this week and the team, Railfire Legion is planning special events for BBTAG. WNF is weekly swapping between console and pc, and there's Intertwining fates with their events. There's switch tournaments, beginner brackets, and the game still sees good play at majors! BBTAG IS NOT DEAD! Until Project L comes out at least lol.
You might be unaware if you are getting to it late, but Kill la Kill actually had an early scene. The game was labbed and there were tournaments, and for what its worth, the game was fun and played pretty well. I got a pre-release code from the publisher so I was there day 1 and I played a lot of online games. There was a patch released, I think just before Mako came out, that totally screwed the game up. The combo system was changed in frustrating ways, a lot of small changes that was just enough to suck the creativity out of the gameplay, and the game was abandoned by the playerbase not long after that. I don't remember exactly what the changes were, I think something about combos being way shorter and especially something about the wall system. Supposedly to make the game less frustrating for all the players who are not expecting the game to have actual fighting game depth. And so the hand of modern fighting game design slapped KLK into the abyss.
To this day SFxT is the king of adapting characters into a tag game. All Street Fighter characters were directly brought over even becoming more complex while the Tekken side had a remarkably different feel as they tried their best to scale them to 3D.
bbtag has crazy ammounts of mods, although not all released. but basically there are mods that added missing characters from each franchise (terumi, kokonoe, izanami, wagner, rise, or even melty blood characters) other mods flat out restore the og movesets of the characters. its crazy but the discord is still active to this day, i believe some of the people who mod tag also mod the french bread games. also poor ol fexl is so dead you didnt even mention it... although that game still has tourneys iirc despite its niche community.
@@williehawkinsii4845 it wasn't made by arcsystem works. They published the game A+ Games made the game. It's in the start up of the game, yall gotta stop saying this
I still find it extremely bizarre how the RWBY characters were even in Cross tag. Like despite my opinions on the show it was cool to see them in the game but they were clearly the odd ones out. Like they aren't originally from a video game like every other character nor have a dedicated fighter like the persona cast. I don't mind them being in the game I just find it odd they were in the game in the first place.
It really is still baffling to this day. Iirc I think Mori was a fan of early RWBY and reached out to RT to use them? This is second hand info so im not sure how true it is.
This is all info that is super old sitting in the back of my head but, if I remember, Monty was a big fan of BlazBlue, I think even citing BB as one of the inspirations for RWBY. I think it was just a way of honoring his memory as a fan. He probably would have loved to put his characters in a fighting game, and especially one made by ArcSys. Too bad the game sucked ass.
Well at least they can say RWBY was in a fighting game. Though I still don't get why RWBY doesn't have a dedicated fighter when that'd be like the perfect genre with a game adaptation other than maybe a DMC style hack and slash.
There’s actually quite a few touhou fighting games depending on your idea of a fighting game . 1V1 bullet Hells can be loosely described as a fighting game. I guess the same thing could also apply to 1v1 sniper only in call of duty
Hisoutensoku is like, an active fighting game with tons of new players and lots of activity but theres like from 10 to 20 players everyday, it's really weird (from what i have seen at least)
I've come to realize that the whole "dead game" discussion is one of the major reasons why I've grown to really dislike the FGC. It's like, I get it. With how gaming is nowadays, if it's not something that's continually and constantly getting updates, it just falls into obscurity for whatever "new" thing happens to release. Content creators have to bend to what the "new" thing is if they want to still get viewership. Sure, there are some fighters that are popular enough that they can still hold up somewhat by their branding alone. But at that point, you'd be locking yourself into a specific niche. It's a viscous cycle. I just can't help but find that to be a complete shame since a fighter that's finished is when it truly can start getting figured out and pushed to its limits. A sort of stability that allows for more in-depth exploration since stuff isn't changing every other month or so. Whatever, I'll continue to enjoy the "dead" fighters I like, even if I have to resort to just watching JP arcade uploads of some of them. If you FGC folks just want to dismiss them all for not being current, feel free. Just leave me out of it, I want to actually enjoy stuff. Which reminds me, "Antinomy of Common Flowers" should have had its 6th anniversary tournament by now. Imma go watch that.
I mean, that is true. But it's because they are dead that I think they should be talked about. As you said, they fall into obscurity, and that's why I talked about them. To bring any attention back to them, so they won't be forgotten. Dead game discourse can lead to more people having eyes on them, and that alone can bring new life and blood into a once forgotten game.
I'm a part of the fgc but I love all fighting games, I have a list of 730 of them Back on point though, I'm of the thought that as long as two people are playing, a fighting game isn't dead.
A Shame Indeed. Instead of growing as community, FGC devolved into popularity/trendy contest community. If an FGs isn't having constant 'new' update, game is dead 😂.
Now as for it being “dead”, it was alive to begin with? It’s an Indie Fighter made by indie Japanese team Twilight Frontier (who were responsible for the other 5 main fighting games). As for storyline, a lot of them are various characters failing to stop the Yorigami sisters until Reimu and Yukari end up solving the incident, then the Yorigami’s have to clean up the mess they caused.
Sad how fun DNF Duel actually was when beta was around and a bit of base game. But the marketing for the game was atrocious. Having only drip feeding the DLC just small teasers while the game at its core was suffering, blah. I personally enjoyed BBTAG but I definitely think that watering down the kits massively was a dissuading idea. I get that it was supposed to bring in tons of newcomers but it was such a double edged sword. A sword that I feel like could've been used by both sides had there been slightly more depth to the game. Also re-releasing older sprites as multiple DLC packs was incredibly ridiculous, let's admit. Funny that a lot of the time, it's not the fighting games at base value that ruin the game too much, but the support following that people gauge whether you play more or not.
I’m convinced that arc sis was developing 3.0 season three for tag but got canceled halfway through so they just left the game in the poorly balance state that it’s in.
I greatly miss playing AoCF. It's some of the most fun I've ever had with a video game, but the netplay requirements- port forwarding, wired internet, network control- became untenable for me with my work. If I could just... play, anywhere, I'd still be having a blast with it. Soku's a little more playable thanks to the Sokuroll mod but still... it's a bear and a half to set up on hotel wifi.
BBTAG had amazing potential but I knew out the gate that it probably wouldn’t go very far. Partly because of the issues mentioned in the video, but also because of what it had to contend with. DBFZ and Smash Ultimate coming out in the same year was devastating for the longevity of the game. By the time BBTAG was released, you already had DBFZ, which made BBTAG a nice break from DBFZ but the problems mentioned meant it would only be a “break” game and not a new mainstay. Meaning as soon as you wanted to play DBFZ again, BBTAG was going right back on the shelf. And then with Smash Ultimate coming out later? That would be your “break” game, assuming it didn’t become your main game.
It's funny how they talk about "Dead" fighting games but never mention Sailor Moon Snes or Third Strike. All versions of SF3 were dead games right up until Evo moment 37.
I appreciate your opinion on bbtag, but the video comes off more like you complaining it wasn't the game you specifically wanted and attempting to present it as evidence that it didn't make it. It's fine if you would rather play a 1v1 fighter, but many people enjoy tag fighters and the way they combined all the unique mechanics together from each franchise was actually quite impressive from a game design point of view. For instance, lets take MvC2. It's arguably dead, and you could even say some of the characters are even more poorly designed in mvc2 because of how weak they are such that they're mostly played for assists, but wouldn't it be a little ridiculous to complain about mvc2 is dead because the characters don't match their iterations in another franchise and present that as clear evidence of its demise? People don't accuse mvc2 of being poor because ryu doesn't play like he's in street fighter... despite it having simplified button schemes and more chaotic gameplay. You mentioned that you think they did the game mechanics of bbtag poorly because you played all the other fighting games. Well, that's great and all, but bbtag isn't trying to be other games. the design of the game, like mvc2 is wholly unique to where it derives its ip. yes, it takes inspiration from other games, but they put a unique spin on it to keep it within reason of the game's vision. There's a reason chain shift and persona stocks aren't in the game, and why they chose certain moves over others. You can disagree with me on whether you think the game as a whole is poorly designed, but imo you should back up your arguments in the video with examples from the game itself. What's a situation in the game that you perceive is poor in the context of the overarching game? For instance, some people may critique the auto-combo buttons being too linear, or the damage being too high. personally, given the complexity you have when controlling 2 characters at the same time, I believe it opens the window to highly creative play and the auto-combos feel justified and has good uses, generally. like different points in the auto combo can be used to bait bursts and apply pressure while tagging for mixups. with the free form nature of the tag system it allows you to create so many situations to attack or defend. I generally believe the damage is too high in the game, but that's just my personal opinion. whether or not you agree with my assessment is not really an issue though, imo you're allowed to think I'm wrong, but I think you should be more transparent with your beliefs and use a real justification if you want to claim something has poor design instead of just saying "I didn't like it". Last thing, my personal opinion, but as someone who enjoys bbtag, I don't really appreciate "discourse" for the sake of eyes on the game. It comes across as an un-genuine attempt to get attention off of bashing something someone might like or catering to haters. I'd rather you just leave it alone if you don't care to offer any insight on things beyond I didn't like it. It might not be your intention to do something like that, and maybe you'll ignore this comment, but I sincerely hope you will improve your videos.
Kill la kill if is cool Using the characters themes in game might have trouble with copyright when people use it in videos/streaming I like them coming up with new themes I've played both KlkI and Storm and personally I feel like they got closer to a fighting game feeling than Strom did
Why BBTAG failed was heavily downplayed in your video and I only got into BBTAG about a year ago! It's not that BBTAG couldn't work, it's the fact that 1) The marketing was garbage, 2) The character balancing was the worst I have ever seen, 3) The game was never fully finished, even after the final patches, and 4) Laziness and horrible practices (I guess that makes five.) I put hundreds of hours into the game because IT CAN be fun when the match ups are fair...but most of them aren't. My biggest issue as someone that had just gotten into UNI as of last month is that UNI's section of characters in BBTAG have terrible match ups (Other than Hyde, who I feel is close to busted, and Seth, Yuzu and Hilda who are VERY busted). I mained Gordeau the moment I picked up BBTAG for the first time and I can tell you first hand they took ALL of his tools out for this game. He doesn't even have Rusty Nails (his projectile) so that he stands a damn chance against anyone since the majority of the characters rely on gimmicks or impossible to see moves (Seth, Yuzu, Yoske.) Don't even get me started on Gorby because my man did not deserve that ridiculous nerf when he was already missing half of his move set. Due to that, I'm kind of enjoying watching RWBY burn. Hey! RoosterTeeth did this to themselves! If you know their track record, they had it coming for a while now. The point is ArcSystems never built BBTAG to last. It is a fighting game that had all the potential in the world to be something awesome but was completely squandered by their incompetence. If you look hard enough, you can even find audio mistakes where characters lines are cut off, it gets that bad. My advise when trying to determine if a game is truly terrible is to study the games menus and oh my lord. BBTAG has probably the worst menu set up I have ever seen. Nothing is color coordinated by series, multiple features (Mostly the resort to default button) does not work in training mode, no easy way to raise or lower the difficulty of cpu characters, no save music track option, I could go on. The point is on the most basic fundamental level it is very poorly designed and very very bad. Yet at the same time, I wouldn't mind seeing what they can do with a BBTAG2 if they actually gave a shit about it. I have a feeling though that will never happen and even as we speak. Most people have already fallen off with UNI2, a game that deserves more recognition than BBTAG in every possible way but just like BBTAG. French Bread doesn't market their damn games so once again, UNI2 will go under the radar. They just don't learn and I don't understand why, like, come on guys...
Bro compared ninja storm to KLK and said storm was better..I'm flabbergasted. Dudes talk about fighting games and dont play them and just trash them in a video.
I think the internet has spoiled people. While I do think it's a good thing that developers can quickly patch bugs and stuff. The flip side of that is people always want NEW things. Characters, stages, features. If they don't get them, they move on quick. It doesn't matter that you're stuck on floor 8 in Strive. "When's that new DLC coming out!? If you're not adding stuff to the game it's stale, stagnate, dying."
To be honest, I actually thought that Kill La Kill If never came out. I only saw it advertised once and then never heard anything about it. I'm also pretty surprised you didn't bring up Marvel Vs. Capcom Infinite.
No you don't understand there still 0,5 people playing these games. Fighting games are never dead. As long as there are 2 people to olay fighting game is never dead I saw comments like that to many times
Jump Force or Kill La Kill are more in line with Arena Fighters than Traditional 2D or 3D Fighter in which a majority of the FGC avoids Arena Fighters that's why people hoped that New Hunter X Hunter Game is more Traditional than a Arena Fighter.
DNF Duel shows you need to do more than ride the ArcSys hype train into the FGC to succeed as a fighting game. But being pretty on the surface and neglecting everything under the hood is about what I've come to expect from Korean IPs at this point.
DNF duel was a very good looking game sadly is one of those games you buy and you are not able to play it, meaning you get locked in the corner and if you pressed something you were dead.
People take offense to the term "dead fighter" or "discord fighter" I don't care for terms but it's crystal clear that mismangement and timing will ruin things. For example, Under Night 2 and Tekken 8 came out at the same time. I don't think this matters since they're entirely different games. The only problem is UNI PC port is horrific. French Bread took the initiative to fix problems but people already started turning and doomposting on it. The scene will be fine but this is the type of stuff that swings momentum. You can say "if there's 2 players it's not dead" all you want but the reality is that if you have to set your schedule around who shows up like you're on a date it's a bad look. People have lives and different social ideas. You shouldn't have to know someone or a place just to play the game you paid for. I have played Persona 4 Arena for like 10 years. It was locked on PS3 up to 2022. It was not uncommon where I would travel to an event SPECIFICALLY meant for anime fighting games and the tournament was literally *called off* or not even there to begin with. THAT was a dead game. Atlus bombing the rerelease hurt a lot in multiple ways. At least it has (okay) rollback now. And people have the ability to play easier but only the few dedicated people care right now. All of the old veterans play something else or don't travel or only show up when there's an event that happens to have it. If P5U was announced today, the lobbies would quadruple instantly. And yes BBTAG heavily ruined Persona characters so badly. It's ironic that Adachi is so good BECAUSE they basically gave him new moves
I think the thing with fighting games is they mostly only last around 3 to 4 months depending if the game is still getting content i think to me dnf dual was a game i was curious about but im not buying a whole PlayStation for it I wish the game had launch on more then PlayStation
Bbtag slander honestly the game gets nothing but slander the game isn't bad by anymeans yet most fighting game players on release and to this day act like its the antichrist and is garbage the fgc as a whole seems to slander games if they simplify anything
Kill la kill and naruto storm is different gamplay wise (not a better version) infact I'd argue that kill la kill combos was a bit more indepth especially because kill la kill has wall bounce and juggle mechanics also each character has its own unique play style so no one plays the same..kill la kills down fall was its marketing unfortunately not because it was a bad game
OMG I actually love what you said about BBTag. That game was an abomination, but it served its one hypothetical purpose, which is to introduce people to better fighting games. I love ArcSys, but BBTag is the most disappointing fighting game from a solid legacy since Capcom dropped Capcom Fighting Jam. Also the other Touhou fighters are more like Danmaku Guilty Gear.
IMO, I think there are two types of dead games: game where you physically can’t play it anymore, or where it’s forgotten by most people. I’d say Kill la Kill IF and Cross Tag Battle are the latter category. You can probably find matches for both, but no one talks about them anymore. BBTag especially, since I remember seeing so many videos being like “the game is dead”, then seeing videos be like “the game isn’t dead”. Like compare them to Melee, that game has been out for 20 years and it’s still popular and talked about. Meanwhile both IF and BBTag aren’t even a decade old and are forgotten and dead. Though I could be wrong in my comparison. Plus, I feel like Kill la Kill IF and Blazblue Cross tag battle died for different reasons.
Its not that complicated once you find out what everything does (theres an entire discord to help with that) but the initial learning curve is steep due to soku not being "normal"
Agreed. And don't let me start about all the technicalities that are nowadays REQUIRED to play at a certain level online... Where did "the feel for a character's moves" go? 😢
BBTAG was the game that got me interested in fighting games, but it was not the first one I played. Skullgirls was. I still think BBTAG is pretty good but it is more of a MVC2 than a BlazBlue. Would rather just play a new BlazBlue. Believe it or not TAG actually has a small weekly online tournament scene.
There's more than just Doncons weeklies too! There's a new bi-weekly happening this week and the team is planning special events. WNF is weekly swapping between console and pc, and there's Intertwining fates with their events. There's switch tournaments, beginner brackets, and still sees good play at majors. BBTAG IS NOT DEAD! Until Project L comes out at least lol.
Bro really said kill la kill IF was worse than storm im dying KLK plays way better and is way deeper than storm. Only issue is the game doesn’t really tell you how to play it what the mechanics really are
I’m sorry if this sounds rude but I appreciate what I’m seeing as a casual level POV, especially for BBTAG. I’ve been with fighting games so long that I don’t have the ability to truly have a casual sided opinion anymore because game hopping has become such an easy thing for me nowadays. I can play BBCF, P4AU and UNI then hop onto tag and have no issue with gameplay changes whatsoever, and I’m glad I can find people like you with a whole different way to see fighting games, letting me see how different my issues with a fighting game or games can differ from a different side of FG players.
BBTAG is far from dead (unless youre on PC, which the playerbase is non-existent in terms of piblic lobbies) with pretty regular tournaments and Discords having plenty of people regularly playing in em (and a decently healthy PSN player count last I saw) As for going on about how the game being sinple is bad.......I dunno what you expected them to do. We're talking about merging together 3 radically different fighting games and one franchise that didn't have a game to pull from at all. Not to mention making it a tag game. The route they went was honestly the best choice they couldve made, so celebrating its death is backwards to me
Talking about Touhou AoCF is definitely warranted, that game isn't as deep as what's come before it, but did you reeeeallly have to leave Touhou Hisoutensoku out of the mix? Its not exactly a dead game, but goddamn it deserves at least a spotlight for how goddamn unique it is Like legitimately, Soku is the only fighting game where you can say that giant screen filling projectiles are common and dodgeable
As someone who has an unhealthy love of BBTAG it breaks my heart that it’s a dead game. I genuinely love bbtag and I think it only really died because arcys abandoned it and it’s also not super fun until you sink hours and hours into the game to learn all the wacky tech. Like the tag mechanic seems simple at fist but there is a lot you can do once you delve deeper. I just wish it had more staying power because it truly is super unique game.
brother, not to be rude but you take two years between each bloody sentence if you wanna do content in the future, i suggest writing a script beforehand
BBTAG isnt really dead i would say. Got the game from gamepass and a niche discord community and forums have kept it alive for a while according to the players there. Really welcoming community for the most part
DNF while I did give it the college try just wasn’t my cup of tea gameplay wise. Characters designs I feel are the best aspect of the game 100%. The lack of promotion, communication made ppl wary of the game was getting support. Along with the long wait for Spectre which released around SF6 didn’t do any favors . Kudos to the DNF community trying to keep the game alive, I’m probably not coming back as Tekken and Granblue has more of my interest.
If you blame a dev for lack community enthusiasm, then the interest was just all fake from the community in the first place. It got a lot of attention too, so it's not as if advertisment was the issue.
In the case of DNF, it really was. One thing he missed was the state of release swiftmaster, who was so strong that NO character had favorable odds, with another being worse than the rest of the cast by a long shot. Remember that swiftmaster was BANNED from most tournaments, Which could have been fixed with a balance patch, and was, but far too late. I personally watched the enthusiasm of DNF die-hards drain in real time as they waited and waited for ANYTHING past the initial release with no additional news, no trailers, no word at ALL from devs, and then once they were all done keeping their hopes up and moved to newer games and the rollback updates of older games, THEN we got a trailer. But there was simply nobody left to care. street fighter 6 was around the corner, tekken 8 release was announced, under night 2 was hinted at, blazblue and old guilty gear had rollback betas and then rollback updates, strive went through TWO balance patches and several dlc releases, and that’s all they needed to give up and seek better pastures. EVERYTHING but dnf was still getting active support.
Honestly I was gonna start my comment on about touhou but the more I think about Arena Fighters as a whole the more I just get mad so if you don't mind let me rant a bit cause dang this genre of "fighting" is just so dumb af, not to mention a waste of potential and just licensing and stuff. And you ask how I would like fix this? Literally there's one simple solution make it an Hack and Slash fighter which is you ask wtf is that and at that point let me give you an outline on this hypothetically scenario (besides we have a good grasp on it with DMC5 Mods so either way it'll make sense) Okay so imagine any series but instead of your standard Arena fighter it's an hack and slash similar to DMC (cause honestly out of all of the hack and slashers that one is close to making this "Arena Fighter" actually be a cool af concept not to mention the moves from the DMC series alone are honestly considered to be fighting game-ish type moves especially with the motion inputs as well anyways getting side track) then because each character is unique it's about knowing your own character and knowing your opponents style like look. I get the problem of why this will be h3ll to balance but honestly if you saw those Dante vs Vergil Cinematic edits but instead of Boss Vergil or Dante it's Players then think of the cool stuff can be achieved not to mention the knowledge checking you could do because your opponent just spamming a single move. Like seriously Modders made it possible to Co-op DMC5 and it's fun af not to mention the PVP as well despite it being unbalanced af because it was not being considered but imagine if it was. Timing your attack to the enemies skills managing your resources and you can't just willy nilly cause there's directional attacks that makes you do attacks that can combo into each other unlike arena fighters where it's just button mashers. Like seriously the possibility is endless with concept alone if DMC Modders gave us a glimpse on how it could look like I don't see why some of these studios can't make something similar to that one. At the end of the day tho I might be smoking and it ain't but dang man it's just wasted potential indeed. Anyways thank you for reading my rant now going back to Touhou. Touhou fighting games are in a weird spot well for me at least because I wanna try every Touhou fighting game that there is but... Finding them is "hard to find" or if I find them it's literally Japanese only and no English which is just unfortunate for me cause I wanna play the game without using Google translate to make sense of what this and that does. The only one I know and is Popular (well I think so anyways) is Touhou Hisoutensoku which is at this point what you call a Poverty fighter cause it's free plus you can play with your friends and other people from Discord. My main there being Sanae Kochiya while my friend Mains Mei Ling and Ofc he kicks my ass hard but it's a fun fighting game from time to time to play despite my character being a zone/setup character and just doing D HP into the Air while Qcf LP or HP (Light Projectile, Heavy Projectile) for the Wind Goddess to Qcb LP or HP for Frog Goddess "landmine" Setup, Some card supers here and there I think you get the point. Touhou is both accessible and not at the same time finding a playable touhou fighting game other than Hisoutensoku is difficult especially one that is in English unless you can prove me wrong then I would love to know where to play the other games, other than in steam again I don't mind I just need it translated so please be my guess and drop some of it here. Other than that tho if you wanna play some Hisoutensoku I can go down for a few games if I'm not busy, just leave a reply here and I can drop my discord other than that tho I'll just cry cause the Sanae Kochiya Fumo is just expensive af lelz. Although other than that tho for the creator of this video keep up the great work, do it at your own pace and ofc have fun while doing so. Honestly fighting games in general are both cooking and not at the same time it's hard to find a hard balance to make it appealing both to an casual audience and an competitive one so it's honestly great for you to mention some of these games at least to make them a little bit known in a sense.
7:38 Its not pronounced 2hu, its more pronounced Toho (like the Godzilla group). There wasn’t 2 of them, there were 6, split evenly into 2 trilogies, the grounded trilogy (7.5, 10.5 and 12.3), then the flying trilogy (13.5, 14.5 and 15.5)
Fun fact: the Kill la Kill If developer worked on a ps vita asterisk war arena fighter. Take that as you will. Also I actually like IF's ost. Not as good as the anime's but it's hell of a lot better than most OSTs that you hear from other mediocre anime arena fighters (*cough* jump force *cough*)
The Touhou flighting game is a decade plus old indie game, I'm so glad that's still rocking! And as people's saying, if there's even 2 people playing it is not dead 😊
a fighter is still alive as long as 2 people want to play it
NEVER. RIVALS IS DEAD. NEVER TO RETURN FROM THE ABYSS.
@@SoftwareNeos idk man make some friends at locals who like rivals or something, just cause you can't play ranked doesn't mean a game is worthless
Sure but there's a clear difference between being able to hop on netplay at most times of the day and be able to find a game OR having to go on discord and ping people to be able to MAYBE get a set with one person who's also probably mismatched with your skill level.
I don't like using the term dead game because it isn't really accurate but for me I really have no interest in playing... We'll say "discord fighters". I'm not a very social person and finding people to play with is akin to actual work. Most days I don't want to go through that entire process I just wanna hit the "play online" button and play random people.
If you're content with the discord fighter style that's awesome as long as you aren't implying that should be a valid option for everyone
Also if you're just talking about simply playing with a friend or something that's totally cool and I'm always down to learn a niche game but that's also kind of a different experience than being able to grind, improve, go to tournaments, etc.
Point being I think the term dead game is kind of stupid but it can be important to note the difference I'm trying to express here.
@@azumashinobi1559 fair honestly
if you haven't tried playing through discord I would recommend it though, it's pretty fun
especially some of the older arcsys games and french bread games, they're usually super active especially bbcf, xrd, and uni2
but yeah I think the term discord fighter is a better term as opposed to "dead game" I think that term should just be reserved for games you literally can't play anymore like the cycle frontier and multiversus or games that need multiple people that you just can't find games on like team fortress classic or ricochet
But what if I’m the third player and a beginner and want to learn against people who are also beginners?
Rev2 and dragonball are far from dead, its a shame games like bbtag and dnf are in the state theyre in though. Put in at least 50 hours of bbtag, my boy akihiko was unstoppable
Fingers crossed for the BBTAG2 we deserve, with more characters and especially more Arcana Heart representation.
@@BridgetGX all id ask above else is a better character select lmao, shit was ludicrous
@@BridgetGX Arcana Heart always deserves more
Are you talking about pc? Because Rev2 on ps is almost deserted since Strive came out, apart from private rooms (which you have to find or ask to participate in)...
@@alessandrobaggi6129 yea you can still regularily find people to play in player lobbies every day on pc in rev2, i play rev2 all the time.
16:50 ok thats a *YOU* problem, not the games. There's a training mode for a reason.
Kinda miffed at how glossed over AoCF was. If I can just go on a tangent here:
It's actually the 6th Touhou fighting game and the 3rd to go for the "float" style of gameplay that has been built up since 2013's Hopeless Masquerade (Touhou 13.5). A thing with the float fighters is that they've always had an uphill battle in terms of any shot of popularity. Especially considering the first 3 Touhou fighters were more grounded affairs that played a little more traditionally with the most popular of which being Hisoutensoku (Touhou 12.3). Especially bolsterd by the fact that 12.3 has community made rollback which has done wonders for international play.
Of all the things to deteur players from 15.5, the new style and the majority new roster with only 5 carry overs from 12.3 (even then their movesets function differently) may be two significant ones but the biggest killer is simply put; no rollback. You're relying on a very scuffed delay based code to play with people and it makes any international scene all the more harder to maintain.
It's a shame though since there are a lot of things that carry over between games as well as some other new additions to it people don't talk about much, Touhou fighters traditionally have a bullet > melee > dash (graze) circle as their hit > grab > shield flowchart with things like shields and grabs still in the game and AoCF balances these pretty well. A unique thing to AoCF is a new mechanic called Perfect Possession. Basically it turns the game into an interesting tag fighter where your partner is less their own character and more so an extension of your main character. The community refers to both point and anchor as master and slave... Mainly also in part due to how the story calls it.
It creates this interesting resource management as to whether you can cash out more damage in a combo with a tag action, swap over to try and heal your health, burst or break out of a combo with your master/slave or save your possession meter to try and build up to your ultimate super. The float style gameplay is also probably the tightest in this game as no external gimmicks are going to make things lop sided and makes getting use to the fact that the central lane characters are on is effectively the ground, making jump ins and jump cancels have these tight but exhilerating strings.
That's my whole speal on it though. I might have some details messed up but it's a game that has gotten me more into fighters again as a whole. Hope for the day it does get rollback.
I'll be honest, I've actually kinda preferred AoCF over Soku, as fun as Soku is to play
as awful as the netcode can be on the Switch version, I've had fun learning the game, trying to play around my mains (Doremy, Sumireko, & especially Ichirin) having pretty slow pokes, & overall feeling more appealing to me
it helps that it's also the only fighting game I really have to play with my friend group
really messed up how the very next game he said "I didn't put VF on the list because I don't know anything about it and I don't want to show me playing it badly" when that's what he did with AoCF
16:40 that’s why training mode exists bro so you can try your characters💀
😳😳
It's still important for their to be a single player experience for people who enjoy different characters it gives new players ways to learn whilst still having fun not everyone takes fighting games seriously and most casual players don't want to spend 3 hours in training mode every day
@@corbinallen4562 ok but… that’s literally my point go learn
The basics of your character in training mode it takes like 30 minutes at the most to figure out how the most complex character in the game works bro
@@Sewer-coon that works for learning basics but it's far easier to improve as a new player with a good single player mode rather than losing over and over again online
Fighting game players when they suck at a character and they don't go into training mode:
DNF may have been squandered but there's one thing you have to admit is crazy:
There was a community tournament a while back where the matcherino surpassed $1000-which is INSANE for a "dead game"
this has been repeated a bajillion times but 12.3 and 7.5 are generally considered the “good touhou fighters” (also yes, it is canon and HM has one of the best stories of any touhou game but it’s attached to one of the worst games lol)
but 12.3 especially is a fairly technical game that’s also very well balanced and. importantly feels good to play, it doesn’t have the floaty stuff going on and while defense is strong it’s not as absurdly strong as in 15.5. generally it’s a much stronger game and the community, although bad, is still active and growing. it’s a game i’d recommend trying at least once since i enjoy it quite a lot and it’s actually one of the only good implementations of “build your character’s moveset” for any fighting game that has that feature imho.
They might be dead but not forgotten. Being able to play a kill la kill game is still awesome
It’s quite ironic that I play everything on this list other than the Touhou one which is on my wishlist😭
For people interested in BBTAG:
The scene is still active! All the discords are active and alive, and there's plenty of tournaments!
There's the main weekly being Doncons Big 8 on Tuesdays.
There's a new bi-weekly happening this week and the team, Railfire Legion is planning special events for BBTAG.
WNF is weekly swapping between console and pc, and there's Intertwining fates with their events.
There's switch tournaments, beginner brackets, and the game still sees good play at majors!
BBTAG IS NOT DEAD! Until Project L comes out at least lol.
You might be unaware if you are getting to it late, but Kill la Kill actually had an early scene. The game was labbed and there were tournaments, and for what its worth, the game was fun and played pretty well. I got a pre-release code from the publisher so I was there day 1 and I played a lot of online games. There was a patch released, I think just before Mako came out, that totally screwed the game up. The combo system was changed in frustrating ways, a lot of small changes that was just enough to suck the creativity out of the gameplay, and the game was abandoned by the playerbase not long after that.
I don't remember exactly what the changes were, I think something about combos being way shorter and especially something about the wall system. Supposedly to make the game less frustrating for all the players who are not expecting the game to have actual fighting game depth. And so the hand of modern fighting game design slapped KLK into the abyss.
Kill la Kill IF is actually very underrated. I love it to death.
To this day SFxT is the king of adapting characters into a tag game. All Street Fighter characters were directly brought over even becoming more complex while the Tekken side had a remarkably different feel as they tried their best to scale them to 3D.
bbtag has crazy ammounts of mods, although not all released. but basically there are mods that added missing characters from each franchise (terumi, kokonoe, izanami, wagner, rise, or even melty blood characters)
other mods flat out restore the og movesets of the characters.
its crazy but the discord is still active to this day, i believe some of the people who mod tag also mod the french bread games.
also poor ol fexl is so dead you didnt even mention it... although that game still has tourneys iirc despite its niche community.
the storm games are nothing compared to kill la kill if
"My CyberConnect shit is better than your CyberConnect shit"
Ok?
@@mechadeka kill la kill if was made by Arc System works aka the people who make Blazeblue and Guilty Gear.
And it is better
@@williehawkinsii4845 educate this fool.
@@williehawkinsii4845 it wasn't made by arcsystem works. They published the game A+ Games made the game. It's in the start up of the game, yall gotta stop saying this
I still find it extremely bizarre how the RWBY characters were even in Cross tag. Like despite my opinions on the show it was cool to see them in the game but they were clearly the odd ones out. Like they aren't originally from a video game like every other character nor have a dedicated fighter like the persona cast. I don't mind them being in the game I just find it odd they were in the game in the first place.
It really is still baffling to this day. Iirc I think Mori was a fan of early RWBY and reached out to RT to use them? This is second hand info so im not sure how true it is.
This is all info that is super old sitting in the back of my head but, if I remember, Monty was a big fan of BlazBlue, I think even citing BB as one of the inspirations for RWBY. I think it was just a way of honoring his memory as a fan. He probably would have loved to put his characters in a fighting game, and especially one made by ArcSys.
Too bad the game sucked ass.
Well at least they can say RWBY was in a fighting game. Though I still don't get why RWBY doesn't have a dedicated fighter when that'd be like the perfect genre with a game adaptation other than maybe a DMC style hack and slash.
I’m thankful for DNF because it gave me my first taste of a true kusoge
There’s actually quite a few touhou fighting games depending on your idea of a fighting game .
1V1 bullet Hells can be loosely described as a fighting game. I guess the same thing could also apply to 1v1 sniper only in call of duty
Hisoutensoku is like, an active fighting game with tons of new players and lots of activity but theres like from 10 to 20 players everyday, it's really weird (from what i have seen at least)
how weird. e talking frog mom's crouch making her hitbox bigger weird?
i meant the whole activity thing, not the game itself, but yes suwako is indeed, a goofy character!@@DarkSymphony777
@@woolsnik4333ahhh ok. i didn't know how weird we talking
These games would not be dead if their network systems weren’t designed to only work when there are lots of players
I've come to realize that the whole "dead game" discussion is one of the major reasons why I've grown to really dislike the FGC.
It's like, I get it. With how gaming is nowadays, if it's not something that's continually and constantly getting updates, it just falls into obscurity for whatever "new" thing happens to release. Content creators have to bend to what the "new" thing is if they want to still get viewership. Sure, there are some fighters that are popular enough that they can still hold up somewhat by their branding alone. But at that point, you'd be locking yourself into a specific niche. It's a viscous cycle.
I just can't help but find that to be a complete shame since a fighter that's finished is when it truly can start getting figured out and pushed to its limits. A sort of stability that allows for more in-depth exploration since stuff isn't changing every other month or so.
Whatever, I'll continue to enjoy the "dead" fighters I like, even if I have to resort to just watching JP arcade uploads of some of them. If you FGC folks just want to dismiss them all for not being current, feel free. Just leave me out of it, I want to actually enjoy stuff.
Which reminds me, "Antinomy of Common Flowers" should have had its 6th anniversary tournament by now. Imma go watch that.
I mean, that is true. But it's because they are dead that I think they should be talked about. As you said, they fall into obscurity, and that's why I talked about them. To bring any attention back to them, so they won't be forgotten. Dead game discourse can lead to more people having eyes on them, and that alone can bring new life and blood into a once forgotten game.
I'm a part of the fgc but I love all fighting games, I have a list of 730 of them
Back on point though, I'm of the thought that as long as two people are playing, a fighting game isn't dead.
A Shame Indeed. Instead of growing as community, FGC devolved into popularity/trendy contest community. If an FGs isn't having constant 'new' update, game is dead 😂.
Now as for it being “dead”, it was alive to begin with? It’s an Indie Fighter made by indie Japanese team Twilight Frontier (who were responsible for the other 5 main fighting games). As for storyline, a lot of them are various characters failing to stop the Yorigami sisters until Reimu and Yukari end up solving the incident, then the Yorigami’s have to clean up the mess they caused.
Sad how fun DNF Duel actually was when beta was around and a bit of base game. But the marketing for the game was atrocious. Having only drip feeding the DLC just small teasers while the game at its core was suffering, blah.
I personally enjoyed BBTAG but I definitely think that watering down the kits massively was a dissuading idea. I get that it was supposed to bring in tons of newcomers but it was such a double edged sword. A sword that I feel like could've been used by both sides had there been slightly more depth to the game. Also re-releasing older sprites as multiple DLC packs was incredibly ridiculous, let's admit. Funny that a lot of the time, it's not the fighting games at base value that ruin the game too much, but the support following that people gauge whether you play more or not.
I’m convinced that arc sis was developing 3.0 season three for tag but got canceled halfway through so they just left the game in the poorly balance state that it’s in.
I greatly miss playing AoCF. It's some of the most fun I've ever had with a video game, but the netplay requirements- port forwarding, wired internet, network control- became untenable for me with my work. If I could just... play, anywhere, I'd still be having a blast with it. Soku's a little more playable thanks to the Sokuroll mod but still... it's a bear and a half to set up on hotel wifi.
BBTAG had amazing potential but I knew out the gate that it probably wouldn’t go very far. Partly because of the issues mentioned in the video, but also because of what it had to contend with. DBFZ and Smash Ultimate coming out in the same year was devastating for the longevity of the game. By the time BBTAG was released, you already had DBFZ, which made BBTAG a nice break from DBFZ but the problems mentioned meant it would only be a “break” game and not a new mainstay. Meaning as soon as you wanted to play DBFZ again, BBTAG was going right back on the shelf. And then with Smash Ultimate coming out later? That would be your “break” game, assuming it didn’t become your main game.
It's funny how they talk about "Dead" fighting games but never mention Sailor Moon Snes or Third Strike. All versions of SF3 were dead games right up until Evo moment 37.
Ok, why must everyone hate arena fighters and the fans. Kill La Kill IF is actually a good game and has more nuisance than most arena fighters.
Maybe the blazblue was the crosstag battle we made along the way
I appreciate your opinion on bbtag, but the video comes off more like you complaining it wasn't the game you specifically wanted and attempting to present it as evidence that it didn't make it. It's fine if you would rather play a 1v1 fighter, but many people enjoy tag fighters and the way they combined all the unique mechanics together from each franchise was actually quite impressive from a game design point of view.
For instance, lets take MvC2. It's arguably dead, and you could even say some of the characters are even more poorly designed in mvc2 because of how weak they are such that they're mostly played for assists, but wouldn't it be a little ridiculous to complain about mvc2 is dead because the characters don't match their iterations in another franchise and present that as clear evidence of its demise? People don't accuse mvc2 of being poor because ryu doesn't play like he's in street fighter... despite it having simplified button schemes and more chaotic gameplay.
You mentioned that you think they did the game mechanics of bbtag poorly because you played all the other fighting games. Well, that's great and all, but bbtag isn't trying to be other games. the design of the game, like mvc2 is wholly unique to where it derives its ip. yes, it takes inspiration from other games, but they put a unique spin on it to keep it within reason of the game's vision. There's a reason chain shift and persona stocks aren't in the game, and why they chose certain moves over others. You can disagree with me on whether you think the game as a whole is poorly designed, but imo you should back up your arguments in the video with examples from the game itself. What's a situation in the game that you perceive is poor in the context of the overarching game?
For instance, some people may critique the auto-combo buttons being too linear, or the damage being too high. personally, given the complexity you have when controlling 2 characters at the same time, I believe it opens the window to highly creative play and the auto-combos feel justified and has good uses, generally. like different points in the auto combo can be used to bait bursts and apply pressure while tagging for mixups. with the free form nature of the tag system it allows you to create so many situations to attack or defend. I generally believe the damage is too high in the game, but that's just my personal opinion. whether or not you agree with my assessment is not really an issue though, imo you're allowed to think I'm wrong, but I think you should be more transparent with your beliefs and use a real justification if you want to claim something has poor design instead of just saying "I didn't like it".
Last thing, my personal opinion, but as someone who enjoys bbtag, I don't really appreciate "discourse" for the sake of eyes on the game. It comes across as an un-genuine attempt to get attention off of bashing something someone might like or catering to haters. I'd rather you just leave it alone if you don't care to offer any insight on things beyond I didn't like it. It might not be your intention to do something like that, and maybe you'll ignore this comment, but I sincerely hope you will improve your videos.
Can't escape from crossing fate!
Kill la kill if is cool
Using the characters themes in game might have trouble with copyright when people use it in videos/streaming
I like them coming up with new themes
I've played both KlkI and Storm and personally I feel like they got closer to a fighting game feeling than Strom did
Why BBTAG failed was heavily downplayed in your video and I only got into BBTAG about a year ago! It's not that BBTAG couldn't work, it's the fact that 1) The marketing was garbage, 2) The character balancing was the worst I have ever seen, 3) The game was never fully finished, even after the final patches, and 4) Laziness and horrible practices (I guess that makes five.) I put hundreds of hours into the game because IT CAN be fun when the match ups are fair...but most of them aren't. My biggest issue as someone that had just gotten into UNI as of last month is that UNI's section of characters in BBTAG have terrible match ups (Other than Hyde, who I feel is close to busted, and Seth, Yuzu and Hilda who are VERY busted). I mained Gordeau the moment I picked up BBTAG for the first time and I can tell you first hand they took ALL of his tools out for this game. He doesn't even have Rusty Nails (his projectile) so that he stands a damn chance against anyone since the majority of the characters rely on gimmicks or impossible to see moves (Seth, Yuzu, Yoske.) Don't even get me started on Gorby because my man did not deserve that ridiculous nerf when he was already missing half of his move set. Due to that, I'm kind of enjoying watching RWBY burn. Hey! RoosterTeeth did this to themselves! If you know their track record, they had it coming for a while now.
The point is ArcSystems never built BBTAG to last. It is a fighting game that had all the potential in the world to be something awesome but was completely squandered by their incompetence. If you look hard enough, you can even find audio mistakes where characters lines are cut off, it gets that bad. My advise when trying to determine if a game is truly terrible is to study the games menus and oh my lord. BBTAG has probably the worst menu set up I have ever seen. Nothing is color coordinated by series, multiple features (Mostly the resort to default button) does not work in training mode, no easy way to raise or lower the difficulty of cpu characters, no save music track option, I could go on. The point is on the most basic fundamental level it is very poorly designed and very very bad.
Yet at the same time, I wouldn't mind seeing what they can do with a BBTAG2 if they actually gave a shit about it. I have a feeling though that will never happen and even as we speak. Most people have already fallen off with UNI2, a game that deserves more recognition than BBTAG in every possible way but just like BBTAG. French Bread doesn't market their damn games so once again, UNI2 will go under the radar. They just don't learn and I don't understand why, like, come on guys...
Good news brotha, we just got word that the hxh is indeed a 2d fighter
Bro compared ninja storm to KLK and said storm was better..I'm flabbergasted. Dudes talk about fighting games and dont play them and just trash them in a video.
dude, if the hxh game is an arena fighter i'm commiting heinous acts
D . Ee . Aa . Ed. dDEAD GAMES. My fave song.
Downplaying BBTAG bc you couldn’t figure out characters moves sets sounds like a skill issue to me but aye that’s you 😂
It's pronounced "TO HO", like when you say "oh!"
I think the internet has spoiled people. While I do think it's a good thing that developers can quickly patch bugs and stuff. The flip side of that is people always want NEW things. Characters, stages, features. If they don't get them, they move on quick. It doesn't matter that you're stuck on floor 8 in Strive. "When's that new DLC coming out!? If you're not adding stuff to the game it's stale, stagnate, dying."
To be honest, I actually thought that Kill La Kill If never came out. I only saw it advertised once and then never heard anything about it. I'm also pretty surprised you didn't bring up Marvel Vs. Capcom Infinite.
No you don't understand there still 0,5 people playing these games. Fighting games are never dead. As long as there are 2 people to olay fighting game is never dead
I saw comments like that to many times
Tell em
Jump Force or Kill La Kill are more in line with Arena Fighters than Traditional 2D or 3D Fighter in which a majority of the FGC avoids Arena Fighters that's why people hoped that New Hunter X Hunter Game is more Traditional than a Arena Fighter.
Am i the only one waiting for samurai showdown getting rollback netcode?
DNF Duel shows you need to do more than ride the ArcSys hype train into the FGC to succeed as a fighting game. But being pretty on the surface and neglecting everything under the hood is about what I've come to expect from Korean IPs at this point.
DNF duel was a very good looking game sadly is one of those games you buy and you are not able to play it, meaning you get locked in the corner and if you pressed something you were dead.
Touhou, It is pronounced "Toe Ho". that part made me mad for some reason.
I was told this game was the most goated of arena fighters compaired to ninja storm
4:03 I personally didn’t like the combo system. One button inputs kinda threw me off.
There is a Touhou fighter everyone plays though.
People take offense to the term "dead fighter" or "discord fighter"
I don't care for terms but it's crystal clear that mismangement and timing will ruin things.
For example, Under Night 2 and Tekken 8 came out at the same time. I don't think this matters since they're entirely different games. The only problem is UNI PC port is horrific. French Bread took the initiative to fix problems but people already started turning and doomposting on it. The scene will be fine but this is the type of stuff that swings momentum.
You can say "if there's 2 players it's not dead" all you want but the reality is that if you have to set your schedule around who shows up like you're on a date it's a bad look. People have lives and different social ideas. You shouldn't have to know someone or a place just to play the game you paid for.
I have played Persona 4 Arena for like 10 years. It was locked on PS3 up to 2022.
It was not uncommon where I would travel to an event SPECIFICALLY meant for anime fighting games and the tournament was literally *called off* or not even there to begin with. THAT was a dead game.
Atlus bombing the rerelease hurt a lot in multiple ways. At least it has (okay) rollback now. And people have the ability to play easier but only the few dedicated people care right now. All of the old veterans play something else or don't travel or only show up when there's an event that happens to have it. If P5U was announced today, the lobbies would quadruple instantly.
And yes BBTAG heavily ruined Persona characters so badly. It's ironic that Adachi is so good BECAUSE they basically gave him new moves
Never seen a gang of people who watch a video just to hate this big until I came to this comment section.
I think the thing with fighting games is they mostly only last around 3 to 4 months depending if the game is still getting content i think to me dnf dual was a game i was curious about but im not buying a whole PlayStation for it
I wish the game had launch on more then PlayStation
Bbtag slander honestly the game gets nothing but slander the game isn't bad by anymeans yet most fighting game players on release and to this day act like its the antichrist and is garbage the fgc as a whole seems to slander games if they simplify anything
Kill la kill and naruto storm is different gamplay wise (not a better version) infact I'd argue that kill la kill combos was a bit more indepth especially because kill la kill has wall bounce and juggle mechanics also each character has its own unique play style so no one plays the same..kill la kills down fall was its marketing unfortunately not because it was a bad game
OMG I actually love what you said about BBTag. That game was an abomination, but it served its one hypothetical purpose, which is to introduce people to better fighting games.
I love ArcSys, but BBTag is the most disappointing fighting game from a solid legacy since Capcom dropped Capcom Fighting Jam.
Also the other Touhou fighters are more like Danmaku Guilty Gear.
Man, you need to undo your crime of badmouthing touhou, talk about the GOOD touhou fighting game, 12.3 is freaking amazing.
IMO, I think there are two types of dead games: game where you physically can’t play it anymore, or where it’s forgotten by most people.
I’d say Kill la Kill IF and Cross Tag Battle are the latter category. You can probably find matches for both, but no one talks about them anymore.
BBTag especially, since I remember seeing so many videos being like “the game is dead”, then seeing videos be like “the game isn’t dead”.
Like compare them to Melee, that game has been out for 20 years and it’s still popular and talked about. Meanwhile both IF and BBTag aren’t even a decade old and are forgotten and dead.
Though I could be wrong in my comparison. Plus, I feel like Kill la Kill IF and Blazblue Cross tag battle died for different reasons.
Leave my DNF Duel alone...
Nah
Bloody roar
BlazBlue crosstag battle is dead what a sad day
Too hoo
you can add to your list campcom fighting collection.
Hi! I was here
I like dnf :(
Play Jump Force and I'll sub. I said it first here folks. I want that good content.
I subbed anyways because this videos great. Fr tho it sounds like a great idea.
I still remember reading a story that Cross Tags success would be the path to get Persona 5 Arena..
Nice vid phil!
Great video
Hisoutensoku is the game i refuse to play,too complicated im not going play it
Its not that complicated once you find out what everything does (theres an entire discord to help with that) but the initial learning curve is steep due to soku not being "normal"
man I wish ryuko didn't have that goofy ass outfit. Her normal outfit is fine
It's kinda an entire thing in the show though-
Tell me you haven't watched Kill la Kill without telling me you haven't watched Kill la Kill
@NarumiButterfly i know that the whole point is that it gives her power. Idc the design is still goofy
Kill la kill is such a great show which is why I am so sad that their game is such hot garbage
Prepatch is cool.
what a godlike video
"toohoo" 💀
Back in my day the game was kept alive by who you played with afterschool.
Agreed.
And don't let me start about all the technicalities that are nowadays REQUIRED to play at a certain level online... Where did "the feel for a character's moves" go? 😢
@@alessandrobaggi6129the moment Evo was created and every one became a hiper competitive rat.
BBTAG was the game that got me interested in fighting games, but it was not the first one I played. Skullgirls was. I still think BBTAG is pretty good but it is more of a MVC2 than a BlazBlue. Would rather just play a new BlazBlue. Believe it or not TAG actually has a small weekly online tournament scene.
There's more than just Doncons weeklies too!
There's a new bi-weekly happening this week and the team is planning special events. WNF is weekly swapping between console and pc, and there's Intertwining fates with their events. There's switch tournaments, beginner brackets, and still sees good play at majors. BBTAG IS NOT DEAD! Until Project L comes out at least lol.
Kill la kill if is good though;-;
He doesn't know how to play so it's a bad Ninja Storm game lmao.
I will miss DNFduel, a game I was so incredibly hyped for to play but the devs just do not care.
Where’s dead or alive?
I died with your pronounciation of Touhou lol
Bro really said kill la kill IF was worse than storm im dying KLK plays way better and is way deeper than storm. Only issue is the game doesn’t really tell you how to play it what the mechanics really are
Never heard of that DNF Duel game but it looks really cool.
Yeah it definitely LOOKS cool.
The thing is, that's it's one and only charm. It LOOKS good, doesn't play as well as you would expect.
Seems like lack of marketing shows how DNF Duel failed at considering you never heard of it.
I’m sorry if this sounds rude but I appreciate what I’m seeing as a casual level POV, especially for BBTAG. I’ve been with fighting games so long that I don’t have the ability to truly have a casual sided opinion anymore because game hopping has become such an easy thing for me nowadays. I can play BBCF, P4AU and UNI then hop onto tag and have no issue with gameplay changes whatsoever, and I’m glad I can find people like you with a whole different way to see fighting games, letting me see how different my issues with a fighting game or games can differ from a different side of FG players.
BBTAG is far from dead (unless youre on PC, which the playerbase is non-existent in terms of piblic lobbies) with pretty regular tournaments and Discords having plenty of people regularly playing in em (and a decently healthy PSN player count last I saw)
As for going on about how the game being sinple is bad.......I dunno what you expected them to do. We're talking about merging together 3 radically different fighting games and one franchise that didn't have a game to pull from at all. Not to mention making it a tag game. The route they went was honestly the best choice they couldve made, so celebrating its death is backwards to me
Talking about Touhou AoCF is definitely warranted, that game isn't as deep as what's come before it, but did you reeeeallly have to leave Touhou Hisoutensoku out of the mix?
Its not exactly a dead game, but goddamn it deserves at least a spotlight for how goddamn unique it is
Like legitimately, Soku is the only fighting game where you can say that giant screen filling projectiles are common and dodgeable
I said goddamn twice. Shoot me...
You butcherd saying Touhou
le deado gamu
As someone who has an unhealthy love of BBTAG it breaks my heart that it’s a dead game. I genuinely love bbtag and I think it only really died because arcys abandoned it and it’s also not super fun until you sink hours and hours into the game to learn all the wacky tech. Like the tag mechanic seems simple at fist but there is a lot you can do once you delve deeper. I just wish it had more staying power because it truly is super unique game.
BB tag did give us that one scott steiner cameo video which was legendary
brother, not to be rude but you take two years between each bloody sentence
if you wanna do content in the future, i suggest writing a script beforehand
BBTAG isnt really dead i would say. Got the game from gamepass and a niche discord community and forums have kept it alive for a while according to the players there. Really welcoming community for the most part
I feel you on Bbtag. Please Arcsys make Xiao-Long a guest in GGS or Blaz Blue.
DNF DUEL was actually well advertised but holy, I feel bad that it's dead.
DNF while I did give it the college try just wasn’t my cup of tea gameplay wise. Characters designs I feel are the best aspect of the game 100%. The lack of promotion, communication made ppl wary of the game was getting support. Along with the long wait for Spectre which released around SF6 didn’t do any favors . Kudos to the DNF community trying to keep the game alive, I’m probably not coming back as Tekken and Granblue has more of my interest.
If you blame a dev for lack community enthusiasm, then the interest was just all fake from the community in the first place. It got a lot of attention too, so it's not as if advertisment was the issue.
In the case of DNF, it really was. One thing he missed was the state of release swiftmaster, who was so strong that NO character had favorable odds, with another being worse than the rest of the cast by a long shot. Remember that swiftmaster was BANNED from most tournaments, Which could have been fixed with a balance patch, and was, but far too late. I personally watched the enthusiasm of DNF die-hards drain in real time as they waited and waited for ANYTHING past the initial release with no additional news, no trailers, no word at ALL from devs, and then once they were all done keeping their hopes up and moved to newer games and the rollback updates of older games, THEN we got a trailer. But there was simply nobody left to care. street fighter 6 was around the corner, tekken 8 release was announced, under night 2 was hinted at, blazblue and old guilty gear had rollback betas and then rollback updates, strive went through TWO balance patches and several dlc releases, and that’s all they needed to give up and seek better pastures. EVERYTHING but dnf was still getting active support.
Honestly I was gonna start my comment on about touhou but the more I think about Arena Fighters as a whole the more I just get mad so if you don't mind let me rant a bit cause dang this genre of "fighting" is just so dumb af, not to mention a waste of potential and just licensing and stuff.
And you ask how I would like fix this? Literally there's one simple solution make it an Hack and Slash fighter which is you ask wtf is that and at that point let me give you an outline on this hypothetically scenario (besides we have a good grasp on it with DMC5 Mods so either way it'll make sense)
Okay so imagine any series but instead of your standard Arena fighter it's an hack and slash similar to DMC (cause honestly out of all of the hack and slashers that one is close to making this "Arena Fighter" actually be a cool af concept not to mention the moves from the DMC series alone are honestly considered to be fighting game-ish type moves especially with the motion inputs as well anyways getting side track) then because each character is unique it's about knowing your own character and knowing your opponents style like look. I get the problem of why this will be h3ll to balance but honestly if you saw those Dante vs Vergil Cinematic edits but instead of Boss Vergil or Dante it's Players then think of the cool stuff can be achieved not to mention the knowledge checking you could do because your opponent just spamming a single move.
Like seriously Modders made it possible to Co-op DMC5 and it's fun af not to mention the PVP as well despite it being unbalanced af because it was not being considered but imagine if it was. Timing your attack to the enemies skills managing your resources and you can't just willy nilly cause there's directional attacks that makes you do attacks that can combo into each other unlike arena fighters where it's just button mashers. Like seriously the possibility is endless with concept alone if DMC Modders gave us a glimpse on how it could look like I don't see why some of these studios can't make something similar to that one.
At the end of the day tho I might be smoking and it ain't but dang man it's just wasted potential indeed.
Anyways thank you for reading my rant now going back to Touhou.
Touhou fighting games are in a weird spot well for me at least because I wanna try every Touhou fighting game that there is but... Finding them is "hard to find" or if I find them it's literally Japanese only and no English which is just unfortunate for me cause I wanna play the game without using Google translate to make sense of what this and that does. The only one I know and is Popular (well I think so anyways) is Touhou Hisoutensoku which is at this point what you call a Poverty fighter cause it's free plus you can play with your friends and other people from Discord. My main there being Sanae Kochiya while my friend Mains Mei Ling and Ofc he kicks my ass hard but it's a fun fighting game from time to time to play despite my character being a zone/setup character and just doing D HP into the Air while Qcf LP or HP (Light Projectile, Heavy Projectile) for the Wind Goddess to Qcb LP or HP for Frog Goddess "landmine" Setup, Some card supers here and there I think you get the point.
Touhou is both accessible and not at the same time finding a playable touhou fighting game other than Hisoutensoku is difficult especially one that is in English unless you can prove me wrong then I would love to know where to play the other games, other than in steam again I don't mind I just need it translated so please be my guess and drop some of it here.
Other than that tho if you wanna play some Hisoutensoku I can go down for a few games if I'm not busy, just leave a reply here and I can drop my discord other than that tho I'll just cry cause the Sanae Kochiya Fumo is just expensive af lelz.
Although other than that tho for the creator of this video keep up the great work, do it at your own pace and ofc have fun while doing so. Honestly fighting games in general are both cooking and not at the same time it's hard to find a hard balance to make it appealing both to an casual audience and an competitive one so it's honestly great for you to mention some of these games at least to make them a little bit known in a sense.
7:38 Its not pronounced 2hu, its more pronounced Toho (like the Godzilla group). There wasn’t 2 of them, there were 6, split evenly into 2 trilogies, the grounded trilogy (7.5, 10.5 and 12.3), then the flying trilogy (13.5, 14.5 and 15.5)
Idk what fuckin Toohoo is, but I _am_ familiar with Touhou if that means anything
Fun fact: the Kill la Kill If developer worked on a ps vita asterisk war arena fighter. Take that as you will.
Also I actually like IF's ost. Not as good as the anime's but it's hell of a lot better than most OSTs that you hear from other mediocre anime arena fighters (*cough* jump force *cough*)
The Touhou flighting game is a decade plus old indie game, I'm so glad that's still rocking! And as people's saying, if there's even 2 people playing it is not dead 😊