There's nothing I hate more in this world then private collectors who refuse to allow people to archive lost games they have. (also a special shoutout to a certain developer that keeps showing stuff he has online of changed or canceled games, but refuses to allow anyone to dump them)
@@MetalMamemon76 Ok, I got a million comments about this on the original video, and it’s my fault for not being clear about this, but the magazine was being asked by a fan if the Hammer Team port was a bootleg or not, and they said it was, but that an official port from Capcom was coming to the NES soon. That’s why the screenshot of the Hammer Team version was included.
@@The1SunshineFeeler Ah my bad, I haven't seen your original video. Still kinda interesting to see mentions of it as far back as the 90s, especially in a US magazine.
I appreciate you not shoving a bunch of redundant information in these videos. I know other TH-camrs nowadays who would have a 3 minute segment at the beginning of each video going over the entire history of Nintendo and everything that went into the development of the NES/Famicom, which while informative to people who don't know about that, ultimately contributes nothing to the video and wastes the time of people who already know what the NES and who Nintendo are (most people who will click on these videos).
Speaking of Tetris, there's actually an unreleased Tetris game for the Famicom Network System that we only just recently learned about thanks to footage surfacing of a supposed "Japanese TV show of a Tetris Contest in 1990" where multiple players including Tetris creator Alexey Pajitnov are playing the game against each other. The only details we know for sure about this game is that the graphics are similar to the Famicom cartridge game of Tetris developed and published by Bullet-Proof Software, it appears to use a Left-handed Nintendo rotation system which is basically the same one used in Nintendo's Game Boy game, and just like the Game Boy game, when playing against another player you were competing to clear 30 lines the quickest or if your opponent tops out and that is where the gameplay details end. Apparently one player who competed in this contest was actually playing from the United States, which gives that person the dubious distinction of being the only foreigner (that we know of) outside of Japan to actually engage with the Network System when it was still active.
Agreed. I'd love to see SF cover some canceled Master System/Sega Genesis games. And maybe some scrapped peripherals and Arcade games left under the table.
Jaleco January Fromsoftware February Midway March Atari April Jagex June Jupiter July Atlus August Sega September Omega Force October Namco November Data Design Interactive December Thinking about this is way harder than you may think.
I watched this video exclusively to see if you mentioned Black Tiger! I'm still bitter this never came out like 35 years later. As a kid, it was listed in the Sears catalog, and it being my favorite arcade game at the time I was beyond excited. I've held hope that we'd see a prototype for a long, long time, but as you said, none have ever appeared. Nice video, I know you did your research!
Loved this compilation of Mostly under rated and unique Lost NES/Famicom games and media! If you could do some more Sonic One related lost media videos, That'd be awesome! As I feel like people are starting to give up on the search for prototypes despite It being a very important game in Video game history. You may not be the biggest youtuber, but even if doesn't help people to get back in to the search, Sonic fans and I would still enjoy it!
With all of the frequent mentions of the Nintendo Gigaleak, I'm surprised that you didn't bring up SimCity on the NES. The leaked rom was fully complete, if I recall correctly
Hey this is pretty good, i had at work for. 2 hours watching it stretched out on a pile of rice bags pretty comfy. It's great when people make long videos
That's not what it says at all. I'm not sure how you arrived at this translation? The Japanese is: このまちには ”ひくうてい”の みせが あるんだ。れきしにのこる ひくうていが ズラリと そろっているんだぜ。 What it means is: "Their an airship shop in this town. It's got a lineup of historically famous airships!"
8:20 Thank you so much for specifically saying the NORTH AMERICAN home console video game industry had crashed. The on-going accepted and repeated narrative that everything everywhere stopped until the NES came along and saved video games is entirely false. It was not a worldwide phenomenon, it did not affect all video game capable systems such as home computers and arcades, and the rest of the world largely kept on trucking, especially the games sector on home microcomputers and personal computers in Europe and Japan, which were both growing rapidly.
The arcade game Journey Escape, inspired by the band Journey, had a tape built in where it would play once you beat the arcade game. It's not technically built into the software, but it is a vocal track nonetheless. That was in 1982. A full 4 years before Athena in the arcades. But of course, as I said, it was a literal cassette tape triggered at a certain point when you beat the game, and you would hear the song.
Watching the city connection rom cassette collection segment again, It would seem Cassette collection was repurpoused by City Connection, They have released several of those titles by themselves already, including the Hebereke/Uforia the saga games by Sunsoft, The Wing of Madoola by sunsoft as well as Bio senshi Dan and Yokai club by jaleco via the Jalecolle line
I wonder if the collectors who don't dump roms know that EEPROMs have a finite lifespan. The data is held by tiny floating electric charges and they slowly leak out, faster at higher temperatures. We'll probably start hearing reports of proto carts turning into pumpkins around 2040.
1:01:46 "Overload" is actually Overlord on the NES, which is a port of the Amiga game Supremacy: Your Will Be Done. The NES port was only released in North America. They must have planned a JP release on Famicom and scrapped it.
Having worked at Parker Brothers in massachusetts on monopoly for the NES I can also confirm we worked with Nintendo of Redmond to supply trivia in easy to hard forms for trivial pursuit. However the games never got finished with the newer consoles leading the way
8:20 Actually you’re wrong, this is is just another “jumpman” situation. if anyone has read lonelygoomba’s tweet regarding this topic, people would actually realize that the video game market didn’t actually crash (there was still a demand for video games, which is why they still thrived in US home computer markets, but it’s the investors who lost interest due to atari’s constant mess ups) and people are giving nintendo way too much credit for “saving the gaming industry”. (especially since the famicom initially launched with various hardware issues and only 3 games, and the NES didn’t even come close to successful in Europe. It wasn’t until Super Mario Bros. where the Famicom actually became a big hit) plus in the 1985 Winter Consumer Electronics Show, the NES is marketed as a “entertainment system” (hence the name) and only ROB and the Zapper were marketed as toys. The NES itself was only marketed as a toy AFTER its successful launch, due to its popularity among kids.
Dammit, why is it every time I cut something out of my videos it comes back to bite me in the butt? Originally, I had a stated that this only applied to the North American home console market and not the arcade and home computer markets or other regions, but I cut it out because I thought people would clearly understand this, but I guess not XD I was trying to dispel false narratives about the crash in the video, but whatever.
So, I dropped that untranslated screenshot into Chat-GPT, and it said the Japanese translates to: "In this town, there is a shop called 'Hikutsutei.' It is said that during historical times, Hikutsutei shops were lined up in rows."
39:52 Translation: The Japanese is: このまちには ”ひくうてい”の みせが あるんだ。れきしにのこる ひくうていが ズラリと そろっているんだぜ。 What it means is: "Their an airship shop in this town. Historically famous airships are lined up there!" (Someone else gave a translation but I'm not sure how they came up with it, it's totally incorrect)
Well, you might not heard about it, but there was a Witcher game planned on Famicom in 1990 or something like that. Few screens and some music survived to this day. It would have been the only game made by the Polish studio on Famicom
On the psycho soldier cover you can clearly see Athena's thighs have doubled in size . So she ain't out running around.......I remember buying Athena store only had 2 or 3 copies and that's how we judged what game to buy. If it was low or out of stock it must be good right
That guy who didn’t want to share the game because he wanted to keep the game as a Japanese treasure sounds so dorky. Like bro I’m pretty sure the Japanese forgot about the game doesn’t GAF about others knowing about it
Eh.... Love Quest... isn't really... completely unavaliable to the public. At some point... and I have no friggin idea how this was even leaked... but somehow on either Zophar or god knows what file sharing site leaked the audio driver code of the game, and with some binary hacking a fully functional NSF is available to the public. Basically... the game's sound data has been saved. I've tried to communicate with countless japanese possible owners of the prototype cartridge, but due to language barrier, and given how most of those people generally don't like to communicate with strangers, it was all a roadblock.
17:13 Uh, three things about that: 1) this game actually exists, 2) it is NOT official and 3) it's EGM, of course they'd use a screenshot of Hummer Team's 1992 port and pose it as a real thing, to... get the hype train going, or whatever the fuck.
@@CrashNicker I’m sick of getting comments about this, read the pinned comment: th-cam.com/video/0dcpKeBQ8ng/w-d-xo.htmlsi=_cYsuBa5kH_tgiKV If you can see the screenshot and take the time to write a comment, you can also read what the magazine says. This will forever haunt me.
half of those "hot takes" around 25:05 arent even that hot and have been echoed by people for ages, yet still my response to each and every one. *Donkey kong country was rares only good series *it really depends on the game as games that allow full air control and games that do not typically have different priorities and a well designed game should not need to add better air control for the sake of accessibility *lives and 1 ups only matter so long as theyre designed around. this is a dumb opinion ive seened echoed since mario odyssey came out and removed lives. classic arcade and even strategy games have made great use of lives but of course they must be accounted for. im a firm believer in the idea that their is no such thing as a bad mechanic but rather there is only bad design. *objectivly correct *git gud or git lost *depends cause hftf, sf3, and mvc2 are all unbalanced nightmares but are made all the more intresting for it *yes *yes *anything pushing 20 years and older is pushing retro so id say its safe to say the gc is retro *yes (but i doubt we agree for the same reasons) *nintendo has become complacent and stagnent since the wii u (botw was the first and last compelling game of theirs and even then it was still an openworld ubisoft sandbox clone) *thats cause barely anyone makes em *yes *yes *the more a game plays like a ttrpg the better *depends on the game my friend, depends on the game. *yes *yes, so brave. do you want a medal? decent video all things considered B+
There’s no way that the DK music games would make Nintendo much money. There’s also no way that Mario and Pauline would agree to being in a band with DK and DK Junior. XD
The case ot the "Indy" rpg game still pisses me off. It's a perfect example of the dark side of collecting: keeping things to yourself and no one else, pure selfishness at its finest. It's bad enough that the only known prototype couldn't be purchased, but also the guy who bought it said in his own words: Screw you filthy foreigners, the game is my treasure, mine and no one else's.
There's nothing I hate more in this world then private collectors who refuse to allow people to archive lost games they have. (also a special shoutout to a certain developer that keeps showing stuff he has online of changed or canceled games, but refuses to allow anyone to dump them)
"Lives and 1-ups are outdated"
*cries in shmup genre*
But really informative video, even had some things I didn't know about before.
17:18 That screenshot is taken from Hummer Team's unlicensed Famicom port of Street Fighter 2, EGM was definitely pulling one on readers.
@@MetalMamemon76 Ok, I got a million comments about this on the original video, and it’s my fault for not being clear about this, but the magazine was being asked by a fan if the Hammer Team port was a bootleg or not, and they said it was, but that an official port from Capcom was coming to the NES soon. That’s why the screenshot of the Hammer Team version was included.
@@The1SunshineFeeler Ah my bad, I haven't seen your original video. Still kinda interesting to see mentions of it as far back as the 90s, especially in a US magazine.
I appreciate you not shoving a bunch of redundant information in these videos. I know other TH-camrs nowadays who would have a 3 minute segment at the beginning of each video going over the entire history of Nintendo and everything that went into the development of the NES/Famicom, which while informative to people who don't know about that, ultimately contributes nothing to the video and wastes the time of people who already know what the NES and who Nintendo are (most people who will click on these videos).
Speaking of Tetris, there's actually an unreleased Tetris game for the Famicom Network System that we only just recently learned about thanks to footage surfacing of a supposed "Japanese TV show of a Tetris Contest in 1990" where multiple players including Tetris creator Alexey Pajitnov are playing the game against each other. The only details we know for sure about this game is that the graphics are similar to the Famicom cartridge game of Tetris developed and published by Bullet-Proof Software, it appears to use a Left-handed Nintendo rotation system which is basically the same one used in Nintendo's Game Boy game, and just like the Game Boy game, when playing against another player you were competing to clear 30 lines the quickest or if your opponent tops out and that is where the gameplay details end. Apparently one player who competed in this contest was actually playing from the United States, which gives that person the dubious distinction of being the only foreigner (that we know of) outside of Japan to actually engage with the Network System when it was still active.
Interesting, I'll make sure to cover it next year!
Next year you should do SEGA September
So true
Agreed. I'd love to see SF cover some canceled Master System/Sega Genesis games.
And maybe some scrapped peripherals and Arcade games left under the table.
Sony December!
Jaleco January
Fromsoftware February
Midway March
Atari April
Jagex June
Jupiter July
Atlus August
Sega September
Omega Force October
Namco November
Data Design Interactive December
Thinking about this is way harder than you may think.
Nintendo November part 2: super nes and virtual boy
1:07:05 "Water being a drug that makes you pee" is my new favourite line out of context.
It has been an honor to watch every Nintendo November episode.
The modem didn’t connect to the Internet, but dialed directly into a dedicated service.
I watched this video exclusively to see if you mentioned Black Tiger! I'm still bitter this never came out like 35 years later. As a kid, it was listed in the Sears catalog, and it being my favorite arcade game at the time I was beyond excited. I've held hope that we'd see a prototype for a long, long time, but as you said, none have ever appeared. Nice video, I know you did your research!
Loved this compilation of Mostly under rated and unique Lost NES/Famicom games and media! If you could do some more Sonic One related lost media videos, That'd be awesome! As I feel like people are starting to give up on the search for prototypes despite It being a very important game in Video game history. You may not be the biggest youtuber, but even if doesn't help people to get back in to the search, Sonic fans and I would still enjoy it!
Just imagine how different the Donkey Kong series would’ve been if Return of Donkey Kong was released
With all of the frequent mentions of the Nintendo Gigaleak, I'm surprised that you didn't bring up SimCity on the NES. The leaked rom was fully complete, if I recall correctly
@@skapokonroll Yeah, I didn’t mention it because it was found :D
The FF4 screenshot says:
This town has a shop called "Airship Pavilion." Because we used to have rows of airships here.
Hey this is pretty good, i had at work for. 2 hours watching it stretched out on a pile of rice bags pretty comfy. It's great when people make long videos
That's not what it says at all. I'm not sure how you arrived at this translation?
The Japanese is: このまちには ”ひくうてい”の みせが あるんだ。れきしにのこる ひくうていが ズラリと そろっているんだぜ。
What it means is: "Their an airship shop in this town. It's got a lineup of historically famous airships!"
No it doesn't. What you called "dusk retreat" is just airship.
8:20 Thank you so much for specifically saying the NORTH AMERICAN home console video game industry had crashed. The on-going accepted and repeated narrative that everything everywhere stopped until the NES came along and saved video games is entirely false. It was not a worldwide phenomenon, it did not affect all video game capable systems such as home computers and arcades, and the rest of the world largely kept on trucking, especially the games sector on home microcomputers and personal computers in Europe and Japan, which were both growing rapidly.
The arcade game Journey Escape, inspired by the band Journey, had a tape built in where it would play once you beat the arcade game. It's not technically built into the software, but it is a vocal track nonetheless. That was in 1982. A full 4 years before Athena in the arcades. But of course, as I said, it was a literal cassette tape triggered at a certain point when you beat the game, and you would hear the song.
Watching the city connection rom cassette collection segment again, It would seem Cassette collection was repurpoused by City Connection, They have released several of those titles by themselves already, including the Hebereke/Uforia the saga games by Sunsoft, The Wing of Madoola by sunsoft as well as Bio senshi Dan and Yokai club by jaleco via the Jalecolle line
Mr Jumpman Video.
I wonder if the collectors who don't dump roms know that EEPROMs have a finite lifespan. The data is held by tiny floating electric charges and they slowly leak out, faster at higher temperatures. We'll probably start hearing reports of proto carts turning into pumpkins around 2040.
1:01:46 "Overload" is actually Overlord on the NES, which is a port of the Amiga game Supremacy: Your Will Be Done. The NES port was only released in North America. They must have planned a JP release on Famicom and scrapped it.
Thanks for this. Havent watched all these videos because there were so many coming out at once. Glad you compiled them here for me to binge out ;)
Also love the new profile picture. Very apt, very cool
51:10 using Sugiyama as the backdrop for this bit was absolutely golden 😭
55:00 I have played a rom hack version of Armadillo renamed as Super Mario 4 and the main character sprite was replaced with SMB3 Mario
Looking forward to the Virtual Boy video!
I don’t care how late it would have released I would so play the hell out of that Keroppi RPG game just for the fun of it
finally, someone willing to speak out against the addictive nature of water! stay strong, and we shall one day win the war on water!
39:54 He's talking about the fact that there's an airship shop in the town
No sponsor and good content? Love it. Subscribed.
3:00 Thank you!!! I've been saying this for years!!!!
Great video! You gained a new subscriber. You missed Hellraiser though. :P It was a Wisdom Tree game, first person with an enhancement chip.
Yeah, I knew someone was going to bring it up! I didn't include it because I didn't include unlicensed games :/
The game Booby reminds me of Buttons and Mindy from Animaniacs.
Having worked at Parker Brothers in massachusetts on monopoly for the NES I can also confirm we worked with Nintendo of Redmond to supply trivia in easy to hard forms for trivial pursuit. However the games never got finished with the newer consoles leading the way
8:20
Actually you’re wrong, this is is just another “jumpman” situation. if anyone has read lonelygoomba’s tweet regarding this topic, people would actually realize that the video game market didn’t actually crash (there was still a demand for video games, which is why they still thrived in US home computer markets, but it’s the investors who lost interest due to atari’s constant mess ups) and people are giving nintendo way too much credit for “saving the gaming industry”. (especially since the famicom initially launched with various hardware issues and only 3 games, and the NES didn’t even come close to successful in Europe. It wasn’t until Super Mario Bros. where the Famicom actually became a big hit)
plus in the 1985 Winter Consumer Electronics Show, the NES is marketed as a “entertainment system” (hence the name) and only ROB and the Zapper were marketed as toys. The NES itself was only marketed as a toy AFTER its successful launch, due to its popularity among kids.
Dammit, why is it every time I cut something out of my videos it comes back to bite me in the butt? Originally, I had a stated that this only applied to the North American home console market and not the arcade and home computer markets or other regions, but I cut it out because I thought people would clearly understand this, but I guess not XD
I was trying to dispel false narratives about the crash in the video, but whatever.
Glad to see some applied historical analysis on this topic for once. I always thought the "nintendo saved gaming" was some sensationalist exaggeration
lonelygoomba is a completionist supporter so I don't really wanna take his opinion as fact here.
Thank you for your service. Was a pleasure 👍
Snake Rattle & Roll is legitimately good.
Loved the series. Great job
70 minutes is epiccc
I'd love one of those red crts in the Star Soldier section.
2:41 DK ON WHAT!?
Oh drums not drugs
Really good video, but as a big G&W fan, I feel the need to correct that you that DK's first playable appearance was DK Hockey in 1984~
16:30 mega man, you're in the wrong game and system!!!
So, I dropped that untranslated screenshot into Chat-GPT, and it said the Japanese translates to: "In this town, there is a shop called 'Hikutsutei.'
It is said that during historical times, Hikutsutei shops were lined up in rows."
39:52 Translation:
The Japanese is: このまちには ”ひくうてい”の みせが あるんだ。れきしにのこる ひくうていが ズラリと そろっているんだぜ。
What it means is: "Their an airship shop in this town. Historically famous airships are lined up there!"
(Someone else gave a translation but I'm not sure how they came up with it, it's totally incorrect)
You can tell someone is of a younger generation if they say VHS player and not VCR
Nah, fam. I used VCR for 20 years, but my brain has since adapted to coming up with VHS player much faster.
@ Well your brain is wrong. It’s a VCR. Always was. Always will be. If it switched you’re not a real one.
1:07:05
this got me off guard lmao
Arcade April would be cool :3
Well, you might not heard about it, but there was a Witcher game planned on Famicom in 1990 or something like that. Few screens and some music survived to this day. It would have been the only game made by the Polish studio on Famicom
Wasn’t “Adventure Game” the early working title for Legend of Zelda?
On the psycho soldier cover you can clearly see Athena's thighs have doubled in size . So she ain't out running around.......I remember buying Athena store only had 2 or 3 copies and that's how we judged what game to buy. If it was low or out of stock it must be good right
55:15 if it did the world would explode
bro asked who SNK’s mascot was and didn’t bring up G-Mantle ok bro
Good stuff
Great video! Where does your avatar comes from?
@@SiarMortal Little doodles included in the Japanese manual for Sonic the Hedgehog 2!
55:00 Is that Mario 4????
Yep, that's a hack of Armadillo!
DK is playing a cello in the music game, not a guitar. Just wanted to point that out.
I'm surprised you didn't cover Sunsoft's Sunman/Superman Lost NES build a little bit more extensively in your series.
Well both are available online, so they aren't technically lost, but it is interesting nonetheless!
Can’t wait for Intellivision April!
Didnt satoru iwata make pinball
No silly, he didn’t create the concept of pinball, that was decades earlier
I dislike Battle Toads a lot. But R.C Pro Am 1 & 2, Cobra Triangle and Snake Rattle and Roll are good Rare games IMO.
That guy who didn’t want to share the game because he wanted to keep the game as a Japanese treasure sounds so dorky. Like bro I’m pretty sure the Japanese forgot about the game doesn’t GAF about others knowing about it
19:42 i forgor what her name was but she was from that one platformer and she had a sword i think
EDIT: nvm your mentioned her in the video
Good video
Wasn't that page from EGM literally an April Fools joke ?
Overlord is an NES game it's a port of a PC game called
Supremacy
battletoad was impressiveish but wasnt the best game design wise
the video was Awesesomesome
The music and graphics are great but the gameplay…
It's always in the last place you look
Doesnt Mario's name come from the landlord in Nintendo america
Yes
Eh.... Love Quest... isn't really... completely unavaliable to the public. At some point... and I have no friggin idea how this was even leaked... but somehow on either Zophar or god knows what file sharing site leaked the audio driver code of the game, and with some binary hacking a fully functional NSF is available to the public. Basically... the game's sound data has been saved.
I've tried to communicate with countless japanese possible owners of the prototype cartridge, but due to language barrier, and given how most of those people generally don't like to communicate with strangers, it was all a roadblock.
Pinball was a satoru iwata game I thought
Yes, it was developed by Satoru Iwata for HAL Laboratory and published by Nintendo. HAL helped develop a lot of Nintendo's early Famicom/NES games.
Welcome to the end......this is the end of the innocence.....i feel a copyright mark lol
is it me or did you change your pfp and uhhhhhhh persona(?????)
@@dakingofcubes Yes, I changed my pfp to Hirokazu Yasuhara’s version of Tails :D I felt it was more distinct than the sprite.
17:13 Uh, three things about that: 1) this game actually exists, 2) it is NOT official and 3) it's EGM, of course they'd use a screenshot of Hummer Team's 1992 port and pose it as a real thing, to... get the hype train going, or whatever the fuck.
@@CrashNicker I’m sick of getting comments about this, read the pinned comment: th-cam.com/video/0dcpKeBQ8ng/w-d-xo.htmlsi=_cYsuBa5kH_tgiKV
If you can see the screenshot and take the time to write a comment, you can also read what the magazine says. This will forever haunt me.
@@The1SunshineFeeler My bad, my bad, I was running most of this video in the background
@ You’re good!
Jumpman forever, deal with it.
half of those "hot takes" around 25:05 arent even that hot and have been echoed by people for ages, yet still my response to each and every one.
*Donkey kong country was rares only good series
*it really depends on the game as games that allow full air control and games that do not typically have different priorities and a well designed game should not need to add better air control for the sake of accessibility
*lives and 1 ups only matter so long as theyre designed around. this is a dumb opinion ive seened echoed since mario odyssey came out and removed lives. classic arcade and even strategy games have made great use of lives but of course they must be accounted for. im a firm believer in the idea that their is no such thing as a bad mechanic but rather there is only bad design.
*objectivly correct
*git gud or git lost
*depends cause hftf, sf3, and mvc2 are all unbalanced nightmares but are made all the more intresting for it
*yes
*yes
*anything pushing 20 years and older is pushing retro so id say its safe to say the gc is retro
*yes (but i doubt we agree for the same reasons)
*nintendo has become complacent and stagnent since the wii u (botw was the first and last compelling game of theirs and even then it was still an openworld ubisoft sandbox clone)
*thats cause barely anyone makes em
*yes
*yes
*the more a game plays like a ttrpg the better
*depends on the game my friend, depends on the game.
*yes
*yes, so brave. do you want a medal?
decent video all things considered
B+
The Japanese words u can't read says seriously .....please like and subscribe
There’s no way that the DK music games would make Nintendo much money. There’s also no way that Mario and Pauline would agree to being in a band with DK and DK Junior. XD
oh fr?
your video quality will increase tenfold if you stop saying obviously and probably every 3 minutes
@@CaptainSamsquanch thanks richard 👍
The case ot the "Indy" rpg game still pisses me off. It's a perfect example of the dark side of collecting: keeping things to yourself and no one else, pure selfishness at its finest.
It's bad enough that the only known prototype couldn't be purchased, but also the guy who bought it said in his own words: Screw you filthy foreigners, the game is my treasure, mine and no one else's.