ไม่สามารถเล่นวิดีโอนี้
ขออภัยในความไม่สะดวก
BATBIKE to BATTRIKE: Adding the Extra Wheel! | Ep. 13"
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 เม.ย. 2024
- store.insta360.com/product/x3...
Tiktok DKthewelder
Instagram dk_the_welder
3d print models www.cgtrader.com/dkthewelder
Clothing ,parts, tools dkthewelder.com/
Email dkthewelder@gmail.com
![แฮงแงงแฮงงาม - บอย ศิริชัย [OFFICIAL MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/vCGJTy9ZeP8/mqdefault.jpg)
You should build a bat bike 2.0, maybe make it electric with hub motors to save space then you could put the gyro where the engine was.
Yes! That is pretty much exactly what I was thinking 👍
@@DktheWelder Honestly man I am here to see you overcome engineering obstacles and making it into a trike makes me less interested. I know it's going to be tough but if you can make it two wheels with a Gyro that's what will set you apart from the rest. Thanks for all that you do and love the content🐬
@@agataskatkus9323 going to the trike is a huge buzz kill aye, the bike did work but I just don’t have the open area to keep testing and developing as I have to load up every time and I work all week so progress would be too slow. And I know what to do for the next version
@@DktheWelder idk if youve watched James Brutons videos, he has a bunch of cool videos on self balancing robots and vehicles. im thinking using inertial measuring units (IMU) to controll and correct the gyro could be a good idea. can do some pretty cool stuff with computer wizardry lol
@@Hellsatanx yes I do watch him! Very clever guy would like to talk to him about some ideas haha
You change this back IMMEDIATELY!! My hopes and dreams of this being viable and completed are crushed! Just giving you grief, great channel and great projects. Keep up the great work.
It is viable, just need more time and a bigger budget and a full redesign
@@DktheWelder what is the budget to fully develop the gyroscope idea further?
@@trenchfighter0369 it’s hard to say , I could work it out I think myself if I had the time but I work 50 hours a week so don’t have much time . I think buying some good brushless motors , a vacuum for the fly wheels and machined and balanced flywheels that can do 10000 rpm and an electronic gyro some electric actuators and an arduno to get it to work and someone to program it , I think 20k would make it happen haha .
@@DktheWelder I understand, working man, same here. Let me do some digging, I'd like to help you figure it out. There was a business called Unknown Choppers that had some great concepts but couldn't make it work, I'd like to see/help you follow through.
As much as I love the batbike, a reverse trike with a huge rear wheel will never not be cool.
Ya you need some positive caster for sure. And maybe some negative camber. The further the top center is tilted to the rear the better for this application. I love it!! Love love it. Your making me want to get my toys back out!
The wobble at a guess is problem with caster and toe, plus the gyro being in the mix?
I checked it again and realised I have welded it on leaning forward a little bit, pretty easy to change for next time👍
@@DktheWelder caster yes indeedy.....id also toe out both fronts slightly too
My thoughts as well.
Most probably the toe in, along with the square edged car tyre on the rear.
I would have loved for this project to stay on two wheels. I’d wager that a vehicle like this for off road capability would need a more advanced balancing system as well as wider or flatter wheel base with less vertical height. Years ago I saw a self balancing motorcycle, but only road capable, off road probably required too many calculations. Either way, keep tinkering, you’ve made a subscriber out of me from the start of this project. Cheers.
DK the Welder video.....sweeeet
I think the 3 wheeler route was the right choice for sure. Regarding the 3 wheel drive though, how do you plan on sorting the different gear ratios that the front vs the rear will have with the 4 wheeler front diff? A new sprocket in the rear might do it. Great video as usual!
You need more rake on the front end. It's not returning to center properly. The more rake you give it, the more stable it will be, but the wider the turning radius. That's your tradeoff. Cars and motorcycles are very similar in this regard.
Toe in will actually give it stability at speed, which for me at least is counterintuitive. You do need to dial in some castor, that will solve your problem, but that's achievable with some creativity whilst you're widening the front track. You might also consider putting a regular square profile tyre back on the rear, now that you don't want it to tilt. The 3x3 reverse trike is an idea I've had for a long time and will be on my channel at some point. Slightly bummed you're going to get to it first but stoked to see what you come up with. Keep being awesome mate!
Thought about the gyro - what about powering it off the drive train with a clutch? When you're moving it will naturally spin up (and isn't needed as much), and when you're at a stand still you can engage the clutch to spin up the gyro. Would be able to use a heavier fly wheel too since you're not relying on an electric motor.
Finally! Thank God! For months I've been thinking: Yeah, but how's he going to deploy his Crocs?
your neighbours must love you lol
i could be mistaken but if you add a little bit of a negative camber to the front tires i think that would help a lot with your flipping issue without even extending the wheelbase
When you extend the a-arms give it a little bit of negative camber to help keep it planted. It will make it more stable while turning. also re adjust the caster and toe. it's getting deathwobble mostly from your current alignment but also partly because of your weight distribution.. address all these things and you should be fine. It wouldn't hurt to have longer suspension travel as well to help keep both wheels on the ground deeper into the lean angle
A little rake would help as well
The trike will be a beast 3 wheel drive😊😊
You're getting the wobbles like dump trucks and front end loaders do.. but from side to side.. I would add another chain and sprocket to the steering that connects to the front left and Right Suspension to sinch down the side you're steering towards.. so it will lean into turns and not get into a harmonic wobble counter to the steering angle and try to flip.
Love your content! Keep up the hard work!
The wobble is the steering radius is very short to suit the quad, so with the quad it will intersect at the rear axel . So on your bike it will be under your butt essentially which means the rear wheel on your one is very far behind the steering radius and so it is trying to self correct the steering, even if it slightly off center, by making the track of the front suspension wider you will help increase the steering radius so just check it before you choose the final width of the front track
15:35 yes! exactly! you need to add rake to the forks! and, im not sure if it would be possible with this setup, but a slight offset may help as well.
You definitely need to read about relay wiring and safety diodes ect,thresh need for such big switch's when using relays and it stops any and all power spikes that probably fried that module... I love the project!
I have a Fat Tad CXS (full suspension reverse tadpole, it's my "wheelchair" lol) and I'm increasing the diameter of the front tires (after a couple other mods) and at some point I'll need to find something with a frontend that tilts/flexes more because this thing has flipped on me a few times.
Granted, I'm off roading it or at the bmx/skate park when it happens, but it really happens too easily for my tastes - also the front wheels can turn far enough to grab your leg and jackknife your front all locked up, and then since there's no flex and about 3" of actual travel on fat tires it just kind of rebounds and you flip/bounce on over, sometimes really slowly but since your handlebars are locked in you can't stop it and you get to watch your helmet hit the ground lol.
That's not something you want in yours...but I am upgrading my derailluer/cassete to this CVT I got (Enviolo for bikes, you could just use one from a small car) and a belt so my mid drive stops eating chains and I stop breaking derailleurs/idlers every time I go over a small hill or pop up into the upper bowl (yes, pedal assist gets me there lol I barrel rolled last time because I didn't commit to getting up the last side to the lip and slowed down halfway up) and it smashes everything down low. Sometimes outcroppings of basalt do it (I live in a volcanic area), just clip the back shifter right off lol
But if people are taking suggestions, yeah I suggest watching some tilting front mechanisms (there's a bunch of examples on YT) and hack that into what you've got built already. My next full build is probably going to be on an MP3 or Tri-Cities chassis, stripped down, electrified, and made recumbent - no pedals, a touring build to ride back country/boondocking trails with and do super remote camping (recharge with wind/solar/dynos, basically infinite range). They make some cool front end assemblies and there's a lot of them parted out for cheap.
I would also find some sort of industrial belt drive cogs/pulleys like you'd see on farm equipment or other heavy duty gear; your power delivery (unless you go shaft drive, which is also something there are many cheap used parts for out there, lots of motorcycles use them) won't break. You're never going to stress your project as hard as say a hay baler or combine.
Your rig is already heavy enough, you're trying to take weight OUT of your wheels at this point (and definitely balance them or throw a pile of balance beads inside to see if that helps) so you don't want hub motors, which are going to be way heavier than simply wheels/rims. You'll get way more weight/power performance using a mid drive, especially since you can set the gearing however you like. Also the hub motors have a gyroscopic impact that you may not notice much but is definitely there if any of the wheels lose contact with the ground - it's very obvious with electric unicycles (EUC), they can turn one direction easily and the other is a battle, because of the forces inherent in what's essentially a flywheel with foot pegs. If anything I would put a couple SMALL motors in the front two wheels to use for regen braking so you can save your mechanical brakes but get it working well first, then add interesting experiments like that (I've been working on mag brakes for my Fat Tad for a while; burned up the stock ones on a forced 1500 foot descent where there was no place to stop, with traffic...terrifying).
Absolutely love this channel. Keep it up brother
In the last video you mentioned that the steering was really heavy. Putting excess tension in the bike chain will do that. Dirt jump mtb and bmxers do that to stop the bike's pedals moving in the air when they do tricks
start with checking your alignment. frame wise and front end wise. then check that your geared steering doesnt have excessive play
Friggen awesome... that is much better than what you had with the single front wheel. I love the 3-wheel drive part that will be sick!!...
Bro is so close to a new stylish type of ride looks like something from the year 3000
You could get rid of a lot of that wobble by not having the front tires straight up and down at a 90degree angle… and by adjusting so that the tires are at a slight angle (not quite 45degrees) by kicking the bottom of the tire out… if you ever look at race cars that take alot of tight turns that’s how they have their wheels set up to stop them from flipping
love what you did with the backyard xD
There've been some reverse trike designs like this made by car companies that LEAN into the corners! Yamaha currently has a sit on version (rather than sit in, like yours) in production. You may be able to make this happen naturally by having the roll center of the A-arms ABOVE your center of gravity.
yes definatly need to tilt that steering angle back , tilt back for more stability at higher speeds, downside it will make steering more difficult but with that mechanical advantage it shouldnt be too noticeable. and super keen for 3WD i got so excited when you showed that
you dropped that clutch like it was stolen 🤣🤣
Always interesting with evolution, and following the path of invention is truly fun.. Now you got rid of some serious problems, and got a few new ones. With that narrow gauge in the front, your triangle of gravity becoms very small. A forklift is very stable on three points (it pivots in the rear), but all weight is on the (broad) front axle. With a narrow front axle, and driver mostly rear, the center of gravity is almost out of the triangle.Two choices: widen the front gauge with basically double in width, or two wheels in the back. Also, could be a good idea to move your weight forward, the front axle out from your knees (cone with pedals and feets) should move the weight most favorable. Keep inventing, you have superb ideas!
What could be fun but might look dumb would be to have all 3 wheels and tires be the same size to match the back tire. Your builds are too much fun, keep it up.
I like that you're taking a bit of the L in dropping the front wheel and hitting up the trike design, I think it would be a cool challenge to get it 3 wheel drive, so it's a nice trade off - just a balancing of the objectives and getting a project you can complete in a more controllable/known amount of time.
If you think of turning it back into a bike you could look to the Yamaha Niken and Piaggio MP3 for inspiration, ie. keep the 2 front wheels but make it a bike. You could even sync the turning of the handle bars to the twin gyros
Tip
You need a torsion bar or try using a mono-suspension and tilt the angle of attack backwards
The trike looks good but yetp ya got a toe problem but also soft suspension aswell,think of it like a lever
I love the three-wheeler bat bike you need to change the camber of the front wheels and taper them in that should make it more stable when turning cool video cheers
Sick brother! That trike is a way better idea!
I prefer this design over the GHP , not to mention this does look like a bat vehicle
Glad to see you are wearing the steel toed safety crocs. For all you safety sallies out there. He knows. He is smart. He has done more unsafe things than what he did in this video. Like one time he stole his wife's cutting board. Go watch and comment on his other videos to see all the other unsafe things he has done. Just sit back and enjoy the video.
Question: is the gyro still active in the 3 wheel form?
Can't wait to see it finshed
3WD Tadpole Terror! You'll be able to make it climb straight up a wall like Hummer!
That flintstone foot slicer was pretty sketch, lol.
What are you going to do for gear ratio on your 3 wheel drive. Theres no way you have those wheels turning the same speed when its turned on, and itll definitely break something eventually if those wheels aint turning in sync
Can the trike get leaning steering system?
Maybe it's not a bad idea to redo the front but it's easy to say
Good morning from America!! Been waiting on this for a while! I just clocked into work. 6 am here Friday morning. I'll try to watch while I work!! I really want to see this this morning!!
Haha, it’s 10:00pm Friday here looking forward to getting in the shed again this weekend
Can I contact you via email? I would love to show you what iv been building the last few weeks
Just a bit overkill on the steering. Too many things to fail. Always think KISS.
I wonder if you coat your 3D part in plastic like they do with lost foam casting you could buried it in sand then fill with aluminium for a stronger part
I think you need very soft shocks in front. Might help with tipping. Super cool build.
Yes one the quad there was a lot more weight over that front axle. I figure once I widen it the shocks will be under more load so the will be softer
Chain slop in the steering linkage causing toe oscillation. A bat trike is cool, but a bat quad will be even better at everything except maybe falling over, the trike will still be better at that.
This seems more legit... If I was Batman Id get this one. LOL
Along with the comments on the geometry issues, I'd look into a sway bar to help reduce the lean. I bet you could find something from a kei that would fit your needs.
Awesome work.
Good Project ! Try an stabilisation bar linking two Roads...
you need to add some front rake to the suspension this is the cause of your death wobble
I'm constantly working on the suspension of my Miata for the track and narrow cars are affected massively from toe in. I would think a little more rake would help. You wife is gonna beat you when she sees the yard and rightfully so. You're the reason you can't have nice things.
I had a feeling from the start that the two wheeled concept wasn't gonna work very well but had hoped you'd be able to work it out, you're one of the smartest dudes I know. Most of the people I know are buffoons, so take that as you will.
I think with some tinkering you should be able to make this thing work extremely well. Use a skateboard wheel and bearing for the chain tensioner, It's what I've used on mini bikes
I think the trike setup will work well, the 2 wheeler would work but needs a redesign and a bigger budget to come in the future
@@DktheWelder DK would it be worth putting the current set up on hold and knocking up a test frame to sort out all the issues?
Once you have all the setting right , maybe have everything adjustable , then go back to the bat bike.
Love your work , cheers from Qld
Pretty radical, hope theres not too many coppers that watch utube in your town. When i was younger they used to just tell us off, not now though.
Unless you design the trike to lean in corners, you'd better put some training wheels on the roof!😅
Hay Daniel, Please try some Positive Caster, So the top of the wheel back towards the seat ,
Maybe 3-5 degrees, at the moment its acting like a shopping cart with zero caster, cheers Brett
"Mums going to grawl you" ......
SWL. anything we want it to be.......
ohh mate! loving the flintstones tech haha
Toe doesnt really affect stability like that... increase the caster by moving the bottom of the front subframe forward, you want roughly 7 deg of caster
Sorry to hear it didn't work out as a bike but the battrike it's still gonna be cool! I'm a big fan of the reverse trike layout so I can't wait to see how this project progresses
I do want to revisit the sit in bike idea but would be better to start from scratch so I’m into the reverse trike for now which will be fun
Too much toe in the front end will make it really darty. Set the toe just a hair wider in the front than in the back of the tires and see if that eliminates the darting.
Slightly wider or lower stance with a shock upgrade should solve that or the 4wd components are creating drag
Try a stabilizer shock.
Like a steering damper? There is a geometry problem that I need to sort first but I can try that as well
@@DktheWelder Yep a damper. They are on some of the higher end sportbikes to prevent the speed (death) wobble.
I also think the weight of the whole thing side to side is causing some of the issue. You will probably need stronger shocks/dampers on the suspension as well.
Your first thought on the 4 wheel front end being too vertical is probably spot on, but do the idiot check of looking at the shocks, it could be that BOTH are flawed.. the rake angle, and then shocks being worn could be a perfect storm of resonance. Another thing to consider is the suspension loading, you may not have enough forward weight to drop the suspension to the angle it was meant to drive at -- If I were a betting man, I think all 3 of these have combined to give you the death wobbles.
I actually checked the rake angle which is vertical haha I was in a bit of a hurry to get this video out and welded the front on tilted forward! And I have been thinking about the weight too or lack of it on the front because it was really bad under acceleration. I think it would roll from the death wobbles it was that bad
@@DktheWelder oh, maybe - under acceleration, the suspension will lift, causing the wheels to want to toed in, one wheel will dominate and since it's toed in will drive you in one direction, but this will put a rotation/torsion on the suspension, squatting that wheel's side a bit, straightening out - then allowing the other wheel which is toed in to take over lifting the opposite side, and .. rinse repeat ?
Has the ve done chains?
Na it goes fine just a few small issues to fix before I sell it but I hate working on cars lol. So it just sits there , I will sell it one day
@@DktheWelder 😂🤣😂 I love working on cars.
Working on anything really
@@dallasstepto8409 haha, honestly I hate working on motors as well I just want to make stuff put the motor in and it goes . Cleaning carburettors and rewiring gets pretty frustrating . I wish you were my neighbour you could come give me a hand haha
@DktheWelder everything I know is self taught.
I can rebuild pretty much anything with success
Front wheel base is just to short. Needs to be farther apart for stability and reduce wobble. Check out aptera and the solo. Great bases. Nevertheless your a genuis to even be able to build stuff like this for your enjoyment. Big fan man 💯💯✝️
you could use a slimmer or less wider front tyre than the rear one, so it would give that auto counter balancing angle of attack when the bike is leaning to one side while moving. so even when you dont add input to the steering, when the bike is leaning the deviation angle of the different width of tyres between the rear and and the front produces a counter steer. but the width different shouldnt be too much just so it wont add too much counter steering. this should give that typical superbike style of "auto balancing" behaviour that makes the bike stay straight up while moving without much steering input.
fly wheel in the front too?
I think one in the front wheel would mess up the steering, really need an active gyro but this bike doesn’t really have room for it . I have ideas for a mach 2 that would solve a lot of problems
@@DktheWelder power steering would be necessary
I've got to get one of those insta 360 cameras, awesome.
Shame you couldn't get the gyro to work well enough. Try again next time. 👍
I’m sure it would work with some tweaks but the reality is I don’t have anywhere to ride it as I will get caught riding on the road eventually, I need it to be off-road capable so has to balance at low speeds
@@DktheWelder It would be great if you had some land and a big workshop so you could create and test what you build. I'm really lucky as I my family have this for me to use.
@@Ben-Dixey yes exactly, my parents also have some land but I have to load up every time to go out there . Also on the camera that insta 360 would be good for your ground affect plane ! Can’t wait for you to get that going
@@DktheWelder Your channel is getting big, If you keep going who knows what opportunities it could provide 🤞.
The insta 360 is a must for the ground effect boat testing videos, I hope to be testing in 3-4 months time. It's going to be extremely exciting, I can't wait either, I'm working on it as much as possible at the moment.
2:05 That, Sir. Is what we call in the trade as a Rats Nest!
That steering set up could be problematic maybe not as much once you make the front end wider. Idk.. i recommend watching a video about taking scooter and maing it fully enclosed. More or less did the same thing as you but with scooter motors. Ill hunt for it and post in the comments here.
Making a futuristic motorcycle
is the 1st video in the series he had a bunch of issues though 2 wheels such a low center of gravity so he did the same thing and made it into a reverse trike
I'm a bit sad about this to be honest.. I really wanted to see the gyrobatbike worked on more.. it looked like we were getting somewhere.. but fair play.. I understand the acceptable balance between pains and gains. :) i wish you had also just at least tried it properly on some proper tarmac straights somewhere... i think it might have worked a lot better than you expected.. what the hell were you doing testing it on grass all the time? :) anyway, great efforts, love your stuff. cheers!
More positive caster in the front.
Can I copy your design?
Very cool
Scorpa Trials Quad prototype
-> ' Ultralight e-quad '
Прикольный аппарат, тоже строю похожий но у меня он будет немного по другому 😉✌️
@litmotorsofficial in San Francisco, California is trying to build an enclosed, auto-balancing, electric motorcycle called the AEV
I think a front anti roll bar would help.
Technically that switch probably cannot take “heaps more power” its designed to switch alternating current to around 10a.
Trying to break a dc current loaded around that same current draw can cause arc over between the contacts.
Might be fine but it’s not the ideal solution for the job.
Yeah I’m not really sure what I am talking about but 10 amp at 240v seemed like it would work and my 2000w chop saw runs through a switch like that so figured a 150w dc would be fine. Does dc draw more current that ac?
It’s just that a DC arc is harder to break because of its nature. An AC currently is sinusoidal so it has a alternating frequency. DC for the purposes of this explanation, typically has little to no effective ripples or ‘waves’.
In summary, in the real world the risk would be that trying to break a DC load with a switch that isn’t designed for that purpose is switch failure by either welding the contacts together from the arc or potentially long term build of of carbon left over from arcing (used to be common on power window switches) or worse case scenario the switch melts from the high current/load arc.
@@dylantaylor8931 thanks that is a good explanation! My last switch welded itself together haha
ps nice work m8
Loved the two wheel look… upset to see it go 😢😢
You should have kept the bike handles been that you don’t much articulation on the front suspension
You need to wide the front axle about 2 meters / tire
If it's difficult to drive slow, just drive fast.
Good!
You need 6 degrees caster on the front axel.
Caster issue maybe?
I see a foot sticking out under and think; you not scared? "I got stuck" I see you you weren't thinking about your feet getting crushed with a roll over. And you need between 4 -10 degrees of caster at least for stable self steering. Like the rake of a motorcycle front fork, same thing just called different.
DEFINITELY needs some caster angle.
dude, show us ve holden commdore red pls
This is turning into a Cyberbyke. Ijs.
Needs some more rake angle like you said lean it back
Yes I took some measurements and it needs to lean back 4 degrees
Hmmmm the Fred Flintstone method
Tilting trikes are a thing and the geometry in some of them doesn't look all that complicated
I think you're not gonna have a very effective reverse trike without front suspension designed to lean, or a much wider front.