Oh damn that's right. I've been playing FIFA Street 2 for almost 17 years now. Great great game. When you heard EA BIG you knew you were in for a treat
@@TheCrankyTechnician I liked Fifa Street 1 a little bit more but both of them were excellent . It s a shame they didn' t continue with that series . Volta doesn't even come close in my opinion .
@sym EA designs these games with little to no effort and / or change. They want to maximize net profit, which means they make short cuts to design FIFA, knowing that they have bugs and glitches that they can easily fix.
@@Yoummzz I get it to an extent like they want things to add to the game every year to sell the game & not run out of ideas but career mode has so many things that could be added the last few years have been so disappointing in terms of new features
PES is one of my favorite sports games ever, it's tough to accept that it's basically gone. I just felt it always had a more realistic feel than FIFA. I also liked the way that you could create or alter almost everything. FIFA is really the only choice at this point. It's OK, and the presentation is always stellar, but the gameplay never has measured up to PES. Seems like the decline in football games mirrors the decline in all sports games. It just feels like developers don't put a lot of work into sports games. As you alluded to in the video, there are countless features that were available on systems that were much less powerful than today's consoles that are no longer included.
Played PES for years and blamed Fifa even tho never tried it before, then i did Fifa and man Pes is just bulshit that i wasted so many years playing and blaming Fifa players for no reason the game is Perfection! I give Fifa 10/10 Pes 3/10
@@flux9433 Depends on when you played PES. Back in the 2000s PES was by far a better game. FIFA improved over the years to catch up to PES while PES faded. But to me PES was a much more realistic game.
Your timeline is completely accurate. The amount of features we had in those older Manager modes on FIFA compared to the barebones tired existence it is today, it's truly astounding
No way man. It died in 2008 like the author of the video said and I completely agree with him. If you haven't lived through the 90s you just can't imagine how groundbreaking the ISS Pro Evo series was. The series became mainstream when PES 3 finally became available on PC but before that only die hard fans knew what it was all about. As for the Pro Evo 2 series some of the stuff it had was just crazy. If back in 2000 you came from FIFA to ISS: PE2 your jaw would drop at how crazy good it was. It literally made FIFA games that came out 4-5 years later irrelevant.
PES from 2016 onwards were all pretty outstanding in my opinion. The actual football was so rewarding and responsive, but improvements from game-to-game were pretty stagnant. In the last game before eFootball I was still hearing the same commentary lines I'd been hearing for almost a decade.
Pes is more realistic but realistic football is boring when we're talking about videogames. I love the realism in pace, touches and overall movement of the players but it can get slow and repetitive while sometimes it makes me feel like I don't have the control/freedom over the players. I grew up with PES from 06 to 2013. After 2014 it went downhill
FIFA has a lot of problems similar to other modern online games (such as COD), the drive towards store content and in game transactions rather than providing a quality game and the manipulative matchmaking. Ultimate team transfer market used to be fun as you could occasionally pick up a bargain or make a killing on a sale, now its just very bland. And the Career Mode/Manager Mode just hasn't really developed enough.
I still remember how fuming I was when they introduced price caps. It was all because of how coin selling was destroying the need for people to buy fifa points, i haven’t played that game mode since lol. I just pick it up on sale/free every year and play career mode😂
And career modes just purposely held back so that people get bored and try out FUT, all these “problems” we have with the game are very much done/ignored on purpose as part of some kind of business technique😂 it’s sad and so so blatant, yet you’ll still find people defending this company
And worst thing is, they know they'll make the sales. Look at the big TH-camrs, spending thousands a week on FP, buying the game every year regardless of how bad it was the year before because "they need the game to make money" (basically you've gotten at a point where you made a terrible decision basing your channel on one game only...). Those big TH-camrs that complain about the game being bad are a big part of that exact problem. And because of FUT, nothing else gets much attention cause why would they. Even looking at FUT itself, it used to be fun, every now and then some cool cards would come out. Now we have promos every week with million of SBCs and we'll only get more cause the more we get the more money they make.
You’re trippin…. Fifa is possibly the only game that is played in esports and has the most server problems. There’s not a single person in the world that plays fifa that can’t say they don’t have shit connection in champs, unresponsive ness and hackers. Doesn’t matter if you got 500mps, 10-20 ms heading into the game bcuz when you’re actually in the game it’s laggy af. It’s the only game that has these problems
Career mode is more immersive with FIFA 22 and 23 but the problem is that these modes are just broken. There's so many freezes and bugs exclusive for career mode that the experience isn't even worth it. If it did properly work it would be an above decent mode.
Pes 6 is simply the greatest football sim of all time, also the fact you mention how elite ryan babel could get was quite nostalgic for me as he was my star striker of endless goals, assists and appearances in master league for at least 10 seasons
I've been playing FIFA since FIFA 06, starting on the PS2. I've seen features come and go, such as team creation and player creation. When I played for a youth team, I spent hours recreating the team badge and kit colours and creating each one of my teammates to put in the squad, stats and faces. I was never too into online play and FUT wasn't too appealing, I only made a FUT team after increasing peer pressure from my teammates in FIFA 13 on Xbox 360 (even then I only ever played against the AI). But I could see the direction FIFA was heading from there, FUT is essentially legal gambling for minors and I pumped a fair amount of money into it. What I never understood was why people were so excited to buy the new game (which was essentially the old game, often with features removed) and start the entire process again from scratch. Most of my FIFA playing has always been single player, I liked tournaments and career mode or even just kickoff. I play it to relax, playing FIFA is second-nature to me. But some of my favourite features aren't there anymore, single player just doesn't bring in the cash like FUT does. I'm really hoping that the new EA Sports FC game will re-add some of those old features and be more customisable with less pressure to be realistic. I also hope they'll release it and update it rather than making us buy a new game every year but this seems unlikely. Also, shout out to FIFA Manager RIP
Its EA. As soon as they got exclusive deals, they just didn't try. I'm a fan of the Madden games as well an the same thing happened there. Madden 05 was great, you could create teams, you could create fans. There were radio shows and decent 'media' coverage in game. But once EA signed an exclusive deal with the NFL, they just stripped it all in favour of bleeding players dry with the FIFA born UT. Hopefully, now FIFA and EA have partied ways, ot encourages them to give us a decent game.
I remembered player creation though my brother was the bigger football fan I made a French footballer called Bon bon. In 2018 a 14 year old from Cork sent his family into overdraft the month before Christmas.
When it comes to EA sports, Ultimate Team is what kills the games. There are only two games I know of that don’t have Ultimate Team and is an EA Sports game, F1 and UFC.
I'm 46 and played them all - you nailed it with the peak being 2006 - 2012. PES 2004-6 (really ISS from '98 to '06) was the best football on console, but Konami couldn't seem to cope with the transition to the PS3 era and shift to online gameplay. FIFA and FUT took over, and probably peaked around FIFA 12/13/14. FUT was still quite innocent then, but the focus shifted to the esport competitive scene around 2016, and the focus now is on "Weekend League" and players having to essentially put in full-time job hours in order to keep up with the market and play matches in a fixed timeframe. Lazyness, a lack of focus on gameplay, awful servers, and greed, caused the decline in FIFA. We are in an interesting time though - there are at least 2 new potential franchises in the works, and the reboot of FIFA next year via EAFC. The gaming industry overall is in a very stale state, however EA's ugly vision of the sport potentially no longer being this football monolith in the industry gives some hope that competition will lead to innovation (as it did back in the mid-to-late 2000s - when EA stole most of what Konami did well and improved on it).
I have been playing football games since early 90's (I'm 36). I fell in love with ISS Pro in 1997 and have been a HUGE fan of the Franchise until PES 2021. Didn't like the 2008 till 2012 period. Loved PES 2013 as a game, because it was complete. Started to love it less after PES 2014 (they were deleting more and more mods). I hate this game since E-Fornite-Football 2022. The problem today: more focus on the money than the quality. And this won't change anymore, because they are making a lot of money while bringing out a shitty game...and people pay. The football game era is done, less effort, more money.
Well, I don't agree about the peak, I have also played them all, and after PES 6, and a couple of bad games, PES 2013 is by far the best football game ever. ( PES 6 is fun, good, but people talk about it more highly because of the nostalgia )
Iss and pro evo were the pinnacle from 97 to 03 first signing of master league was always super cheap Patrick mboma then taribo west for those green dreadlocks lol
Man, I loved to play Fifa 99 on PC. The opening is something so magical. And the playgame it's obvious less accurate than today's games, but it was something so different, evolved, compared to the Fifa 96 for example. And now the games lost some of the simplicity that push backs potential new gamers.
The statistical data in those older PES games were so much more detailed than in the modern equivalents. Konami has been steadily cutting the budget to their games since the 2010's, while adding too many new moves and complicating the control system. Madness
The move from PES to eFootball was a total downgrade. It's now built around features that encourage players to spend coins and GP, they don't care about anything else
I get this argument but honestly 20 and 21 are outstanding titles, while they keep some issues of old and could always do with more work, the game looked and felt great, the stadiums looked incredibly almost lifelike and with the updated lighting system daytime games especially were almost uncanny how real they looked and played. I get that the heyday was that sort of 2005-2010 era so it's easy to dismiss all later titles but there was a ton to like in the most recent editions.
I've been trying Football Life 23 which is essentially PES 2021 but free and without online, just singleplayer for us purists. And the game is good! It's far from perfection but there are gameplay mods that make it so much better, plus I have installed like 500+ stadiums for maximum immersion. I'd recommend it to anyone who's a bit tired of FIFA's shit.
@@MundoSportiva Nope, just for PC. As for the leagues I will tell you from memory. Leagues with first and second divisions; England, Spain, France, Italy and Brazil. Leagues with first division only; Germany, Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark, Scotland, Serbia (replaces Swiss league), Portugal, Turkey, Russia, Argentine, Chile, Colombia, United States, China, Indonesia (replaces Thailand) and Japanese. Everything is fully licensed and updates are frequent. As of right now the devs are releasing individual stadium packs for each league/region, so far we've got England, Scotland, Italy, Spain, France, Germany, Russia, Turkey, Belgium, Portugal and the Netherlands, more to come soon.
I agree with all the points in this video - my fondest memories of football games were local multiplayer PES 3 - 6, and online clubs FIFA 2009. Granted there's probably some nostalgia bias but the modern games just aren't gripping anymore, and it's a real shame what happened with PES.
My introduction to football games was PES 2008. I truly enjoyed it, I've played PES 11, FIFA 18 and 19. Nothing comes close to how PES 2008 made me feel.
With the last Development Update seems that FM is ready for another big improvement in 25, at least on the graphic side. Switching to Unity seems great news, but the update that blowed my mind is the possibility, from FM24, to carry your save games from one FM to the next one! There is hope in FM, much more than in FIFA (where it seems more and more FUT related: the trailer of the next EA SPORTS FC 24 seems a trailer for ONLY that game mode) and e-Football...
@@venettore3601 We should get 1 great game in FM 24 as it supposed to be the culmination of what was best in FM so far with those new features added. After that we should get a proper sequel which the creators with all their experience could fully build from the ground. Good times for FM fans.
It's also worth noting that your earliest football game simulation experiences are most likely your most memorable. For me, it was championship manager, ea's world cup 98 and PES6. Also, football in those years was much more enjoyable to watch; more technical, more balanced etc, thus creating a greater drive to video game in the same genre.
You are absolutelly right. I really stopped watching football for some years. It's so dull in comparison with football fro 90s/00s. Also I feel that for me it shows how good was PES6 that it surpassed my beloved FIFA RTWC 98 (oh the joy of winning World Cup with Vanuatu and indoor mode) and 2001.
@@Michal_Bauer i feel like football became much more centered in getting results than in being entertaining, thus it became a lot more tactical and removed a lot of freedom from the players
One of the biggest things that killed PES was when they stopped you saving your developed Master League team's stats to a memory card so you could play your mates. Instead it would save the original stats so all that hard work on the pitch was for nothing. PES 21 did bring this back (without the memory cards) and it is a decent game, sadly for Konami I think they sorted this too late
I disagree FM did not have a huge improvement. If you compare FM 2010 and 2023 you will see they are totally different games. The tactical part (that is the main one) changed a lot.
And yet, FM 2010 is simpler, more fun, and basically does the same thing. They just added fluff, the game is basically the same, but takes more time to play
@@Impacto92yt exactly, theres not much more FM can do to improve, they are only adding gimmicky content for the sake of making the game different. Sometimes the constant expectation to improve is what ruins companies, sometimes you just need to maintain the level you are at.
Football Manager is fine, you just have to accept that you’re either paying for updated data (players, competition tweaks, Brexit, etc) each year; or you simply only buy a new version every four or five years.
Crazy to not mention pes 2011, 2012, and 2013 phenomenal titles that I feel still really play well. Also champions league presentation in these was great.
The reason Fifa sucks, is because it's become too skill based with randomness taken out. In pes 6, you can cross the ball into the area and pray for a goal, and you might score. In fifa, you can only score that way if you use that exact technique and sweet spot that some fifa-youtuber taught you, which means all the goals you score look the same (trivela shots, german (early) cross, sprint down sideline and score by tap-in etc). Pes 4-6 is still lightyears ahead in gameplay because of the extreme amount of nuances the newer football games dont come close to.
I'd say FIFA is somewhat better (as an e-sport) than PES because of the extreme precision involved, while still allowing for some randomness. There's too many variables in PES that players can't control, especially defending, so pro PES players tend to run ridiculous scorelines and unrealistic formations like 2-3-5 at the end of games
Yeah Fifa sucks, I lose against my nephew he's not even 10 he always does the same sh*t he himself realize was working to goal, when you get older you try different approach to the game because you get bored easily, with Fifa you feel restrained to always play the same way to goal/win and it really sucks... Glad EA lost the right to the FIFA franchise because stagnating for this long with the same title should be a crime.
Amazing no one ever mentions LMA Manager. A short series in the end, but some unique features and a small hardcore fanbase. You could build a new stadium using so many different existing stands and stadia as well as some game created blueprints.
Bloody loved LMA Manager, still find it crazy to this day that they managed to have a Match of the Day-style segment with Gary Lineker and Alan Hansen implemented
PES 6 and PES 08 were immense thanks to Random Select mode. My friends and I would literally play that mode all day and all night. Getting two Ronaldos, two Henrys, two Ronaldinhos... best game mode ever!
One of my all time favourite football games was TIF2004. What a game. Simple, fun, silly and replayable. I genuinely think that developers really need to go back to the drawing and create just a fun experience. Make video games, and make them work well.
Fucking loved using the 'dive' button and getting the other team down to 8 men almost every game hahaah. Sometimes, if you time it wrong and the ball is not in your possession, the same button did a two footed tackle and you got your own guy sent off, such a fun game lol
The two footed tackle was brilliant. When you lost your head 😂😂😂 crunch! Straight red! But was worth it. A derby game v Sunderland there was always a two footer!
Catering to the pace and skill move junkies ruined Fifa. I want to be able to think about how my team is setup and how I can get the best of them (like real football right?), but instead I just have to strive for players with high pace and spend hours learning skill moves that only a handful of real players can actually do. It's mind numbing now.
I dont think it's just football game I think it's sports game in general I even think it's... video game, in general Just to begin with : when I bought a game on my PS2, it was a finished one The community ? It was chatting with your friends IRL and/or go to their house to play, to discuss about how to progress, about secret easter eggs maybe
It's true football games hit a zenith in the early 2000s pre-online gaming. From that point onwards the on field gaming has remained relatively unchanged apart from very gradual graphical improvements. It's absolutely unacceptable that certain things STILL remain absent from football games. Why can I still not decide where my players stand at corner kicks, free kicks etc. Why can I not change my throw in taker, I don't want my centre forward taking the throw just because he was nearest to the ball. Why is there a countdown on dead balls so if I haven't kicked it in that time the AI just kicks it for me? Why, after I've changed my corner kick or free kick taker does it STILL not remember my selection and every time I get a corner I have to manually change it! Why can't I edit real players, some are the wrong skin colour, or the wrong height, or just look like shrek, why can't I edit that when there's a full fat edit mode in the game with pretty decent player creation tools. Why is the control scheme still the same? There should be an option to have defensive and attacking controls, I'm sick to shit of clicking X to tackle but the game bizarrely registers the X input as a pass and boots it out of play even though I didnt have the ball when I clicked X! Absolute piss take lazy programming and this upcoming EAFC24 will be exactly as shite. Online gaming really has killed off innovation in pretty much every genre of game, including football games. People playing each other online gave the developers a lightbulb moment that rather than spend millions developing the offline simulation of football, it was far more profitable to sell ultimate team nonsense to people who really should know better. The feedback loop of earning coins and buying "packs" hit that pleasure centre of the game that is also tickled by people addicted to gambling. I never understood it, I tried it and found it incredibly counter-productive. From 1996 to the early 2000s we all bought football games for a simulation, i.e realism. We played with real squads and got enjoyment from this. So I have no idea why everybody migrated to some daft online mode where you invent a team name in a league of infinite teams with unrealistic lineups. I don't know why EA didn't just go full steam ahead and set the games on the moon and throw in mario kart style power ups into the matches, it was already a deeply unrealistic mode so why not just keep going and give us unlockable 'DKmode' big heads like in Goldeneye. I could rant for hours. But in a nutshell, any easily pleased gibbon that bought into ultimate team has contributed to the death of football games. If online matches hadn't taken off, right now we'd have had 15 years of progress. We'd have a career mode where Bellingham moves to a European heavyweight, rather than moving to West Ham or Villa.
I think the difficult thing with FM is its played across multiple platforms but is best on laptop or pc, I think most people don't have a good enough laptop to play FM with good graphics, meaning they could ostracise a big part of their community if they massively updated the graphics
It also comes with getting older..I remember fifa on the mega drive, then I was massively into PES throughout ps1/ps2 era. Also Champ Manager then Football Manager. Im sure a lot of us just want a solid sim that is suited to playing one player, against the cpu. The best was obviously Pes5/6 on ps2. Also liked the first Pes on ps2 and all the ps1 versions. Amazing that those games are still better than what we have today.
I wish there was a football game that allows you to casually create team where you add players from other teams like moving files to another folder and have them play with your other custom team. At least, you wouldn't have to spend too much fifa coins for just one player and the players will stay forever. It should be called "Sandbox Mode".
I have to agree, PES 6 was the King of Football and i played it for years. I never really came back to FIFA after getting PES 5. I got disappointed by PES 08 and 09 so i stopped buying new football games all together. But now i have a modded PES 2021 career going that is 13 years in. Its fun to see old players coming back super young and thus shifting the power levels and teams around. PES always had the better and more varied gameplay than Fifa, thats why i havent bought a FIFA since 03 to this day.
One thing that is horrible about older football games is it their gameplay doesnt hold up and they've aged poorly. Ofc the games looked spectacular for their time, but playing any older FIFA than 14 in 2023 is a disaster
@@aguyjr the only nostalgia is the player roosters and ofc the main menu music but the gameplay, even tho might be considered outdated to some is actually still engaging imo
@@MrKrewie im 100 % on you the gameplay is better then the current fifas. i mean it can have it changes but overall its way better :). yeah for me the nostalgie part is the teams and the music on the old fifa games.
I miss the Winning Eleven / PES days, now its just frustrating to play, back in the day you needed to be more skilled in the use of the joypad to win and it was also more fun, but also generations change and have to accept that now I´m just an Old School gamer who miss the old days.
I think the reason the cash grab has unfortunately been so successful is because there's practically an ingrained tradition among football fans to buy the new game every single autumn. And forget all the money they spent on packs the year prior, that game may as well be ancient history as far as they're concerned. The only fightback is to vote with their wallets but they won't.
It's what happens when greedy corporations care more about the money then the product they put out and its customers who make them that money. Ea is notorious for this and it's disappointing
@@torenico if the consumers stop buying their crap game they will change remember how bad the PS3 was on lunch that the Xbox overtook the PS3 in that gaming generation sony learnt from that and released the ps4
You summed up everything I think about football games in one video, congrats. FIFA killed PES and changed its target audience, it just doesn't care about those who want good gameplay, they just want the money from brats who love to play running with Mbappe and Vini Jr. FM is an excellent game, I'm still playing it today, but it hasn't added anything new for years, it could be so much better.
There was this one mode in PES where you select a few teams and the game randomise and generates players from those teams to become one team and you can play on the field with their custom kits and badges. Good times ❤
You've nailed it about PES. It was the pinnacle. Looking at that Master League made me so nostalgic. I spent WAY too much time building players and teams. I'm glad I gave up around 2008/9, as it had indeed peaked. The sort-of-precursor ISS on the N64 was a classic before that too. Actua on PS1. Super Soccer on SNES. And was it World Cup '90, the arcade vintage? 20p a pop. Showin' my age there. Good times.
@@_joeshantaram_ Yes, it was fantastic. It seemed so far ahead at the time - the way you could bend and dip the shots. I can still hear the voice of Barry Davies "And he shoots! Oooooh, just wide!" or "he's not the tallest of players but he rose perfectly". I'd love to have a game on it now. Rai, Zinho, Romario, GOAL!! :)
What I love from FIFA is its slider settings. Each series EA constantly changes its early release gameplay into faster gameplay later, and slider setting really helpful for players who dont like faster gameplay. While on PES peoples can do player and teams customization in easy ways, even without mod. Each have its pros and cons. I love to see football games with PES physic combine with FIFA visual. Impossible right?
Simple reason for me: Large market, little competition. No new competitors allowed these companies to stop trying as hard and it's hard to get into the market as EA and Konami own most of the rights to clubs.
The problem is the consumer. Sports gamers are different to mainstream gamers. A lot of fifa players, play fifa exclusively and are not into others. This creates a market condition where regardless of output, they will repeat purchase every year. The game publishers realised this and this is why all sports games are copy and paste fests with fancy buzz words sprinkled in every year. They quality won’t change until the consumer does.
The thing that made Fifa be fun was that they actually had competition earlier in their company and that motivated them to make better fifa games such as Fifa 13 and 14
I agree with some of this except PES 2017-2021 was actually really good and the reviews back this up. I would argue PES 2019 (purely on a gameplay front) is still the best football game around. I think Konami realised around 2021 that a good football game was still not going to compete with Fifa unless they went down the same route of monetising it to the max with a focus on online play.
PES6 was my favourite. as friends we use to meet up and set up a custom league, around 8-10 teams, and literally play a whole day. We would take turns to pick players to put into your custom team. Eventually we had to ban anyone picking Inter’s Adriano. he was too OP
I've been a very active football manager player since the 2008-2009 season. The graphics are poor, but that's not a point that players want specificaly to see changed. There's been a recent announcement explaining that the game will change a lot in version 25 and that version 24 will be a transitional version. FM works with big changes every 10/15 years and small improvements every year.
This is a great video. My issue with PES/eFootball is that it's been forever since they've had the Bundesliga (which is the European league that I most follow) and that I don't think they've ever had a camera comparable to the End to End camera they have in FIFA. In regards to FIFA it pisses me off that they got rid of the creation centre as I want the Canadian Premier League in the game.
I loved PES too and as a German had to mod it every single time before I started a new Version. :D Do you like the Bundesliga because of Davies or other canadian players or how did it happen?
@sebastians4920 My background is German and my club is Hertha as that's where my mom was born. I love watching Davies but just wish he'd hold back when playing Hertha haha.
I'm just glad I enjoyed the golden era as a teenager and young adult. I had tons of great fun in the 4 legends (fifa, pes, fifa manager, fm), it just makes me sad to think that these titles are in decline.
I loved Pes 2 Master League on the PS1 and I was shocked how badly it declined. I still play FIFA 17 on PS4 for the fun compared to any of the titles that have come later (haven't played 23)
I believe the big thing missing from fifa career mode is the culture of football, the same bland commentators, no podcasts, no transfer rumors, no inside training antics, no off-pitch drama, no real interviews, the same cup-lifting animation, the same signing animation, no loan with option to buy. It's something that i think the NBA 2k games do better than FIFA, yes they release the same product with better graphics, but at least there's a pregame show and courtside interviews, shoe deals where they give you a presentation on what your shoe would look like, and college ball, you feel more in touch with basketball in career mode. Also, there are no international competitions, which means all you really have is club football, literally the additions of the various continental cups and the world cup would make career mode feel fresh. Also there is no way to feel connected with your teammates, which is something that exists in NBA 2k
I must say, I retired from FIFA after 2002, 2003. I could never master PES, so I have always played Football Manager, from PC Football, Championship Manager and the first named. My favorite versions are the ones from 2007 and 2008. I liked 2010, though, not as much as 2008. 2012, 2014 nah. This year I bought the game again and I really like how it is. Although even when I can, I keep playing FM 2008...
Football manager did have a rival years prior and wouldn't you know it, it also came from EA, it was called Fifa Manager and it was an amazing project that rivaled football manager for quite some time but they stopped making them after Fifa Manager 14 because their sale numbers was so low. And it also still gets updated for each new season by a dedicated fanbase ... I feel like EA figured out that fans of the series didn't need to buy their games anymore to update the database entirely including player portraits, stadiums, emblems and so on and so forth themselves and stopped making it.
Whilst I agree with most of what you’ve said here, I’m actually think the gameplay in the latest PES is actually pretty good and allows for so much flexibility and creativity in terms of tactics and the way you play. I do totally agree that it is completely lacking a soul or any kind of real identity. It all feels so forced and like it’s trying too hard to be cool. Just give me master league with that engine, some bug fixes here and there, and I’ll play that all year.
Peak for me was the late 80's and 90's. There used to be so many football games, all of which were fun to play. Now it's monopolised by the same brands and the fun has gone out of it.
I don't think comparing fm with the other 2 are realistic. It has a complete different game style. I would imagine myself not playing fm anymore if, it becomes like football arcade game. The fun of playing fm is always the sideline manager point of view, looking and developing new young potential players, the micromanagement of things. Of course, I mean improvements are needed. I agree that scout system and press conference has been boring and sometimes unnecessary. Match engine, I always wanted to see the overall movements becoming more realistic and more varieties of movement rather than it "becomes" other football game. It's called fm for a reason, you can't control a player and make him shoot
Ngl my favourite FM is FM07, but that's just because of the nostalgia of it being my first ever FM game. It's improved leaps and bounds, but I sometimes go back to my liverpool save on FM07 in 2034!
For me, pes 12, 13 & fifa 12, 13 were the pinnacle of gaming. Pes dropped the ball badly with pes 14... I remember my friends and I using patches until pes 16, which was manageable.
FM's issue is less that the games have gotten worse and more that each new game adds less and less for features. I still enjoy them but I know that even some hardcore fans will only buy every 2 or 3 years due to lack of changes
@@symptomofsoulsFM problem (my main issue) is the match engine just follow the mainstream tactics. Back in FM04-08 their meta tactic is just wing play 442 or 433 09-14 tiki taka and now is gegenpress 4231/433DM wide. We can't play tiki taka, cattenacio, or direct ball unless you manage Man City Madrid or Barcelona nowadays which is suck.
@@bimapriambada1098 fm23 is much more balanced. The only issue is you cannot play possession unless you are one of the best clubs in the league. I have had success with gegenpress, vertical tiki taka and route 1 this year
The target audience of FIFA and PES were always kids and teens, I think they realized over the years that going for the arcadey gameplay was more profitable. My 11-year-old nephew is obsessed with Ultimate Team, now they even have cards of players dressed up as superheroes.
That's why I think the PES mid 00's era is looked back on so strongly, as it was more obviously designed towards people from late teens to mid 30s instead
Dont think fm got worse, from the 2012 fm there were some bad versions for sure but I am having a great time playing fm 23, it is not worse just different. Just like FIFA 17, it was a great game and I had lots of fun personally
Great vid so well articulated. Been playing fifa and pes since FIFA 08 and I think it died when ultimate team was released. And as FIFA have no competition, they have no reason to innovate. SBMM, packs, no new modes, tiny changes to gameplay. It’s not worth playing now as it’s not fun
I agree with the decay of FIFA and PES. But in my opinion FM its getting better and better making it the most complete and accurate football experience in videogames.
Real problem is the urge to sell one game every year, devs won't really release everything they have or could this year so they can have stuff for next year. They make so much money with this tactic that they stop updating the 22 game months before the release of the 23 one
Bro, i agree with a lot, but if you haven't tried PES 2015-2018, you def should. Probably my favorite football games of all time. Also you neglected the ISS era
All games got worse when they added the online feature look at single player games what gems they are no online game comes even close to something like red dead 2 last of us witchers 3 and so on the have one thing in common they don't shove down competitive and online play down ur troath and those games are so much better.
Definitely true what you say about the simplicity of old FIFA. It's like the whole point of gaming, to have fun and enjoy playing, has been completely forgotten about.
Awesome video man! I have a question though, what would make the ultime football video game experience? Like which features could we take from each franchise to make the ultimate football video game? I think that's an interesting idea for a video and would spark the debate.
@@jackninetynine5036 I'd rather have FM's customization at least when it comes to databases and graphics. The fact that FM's editor is so easy to use and the community is very dedicated and creative with it makes it so the possibilities are endless
@@mavros6498 yeah I get that for sure, I wish fifa had that kind of editor. With pes it’s more about the clubs, kits & u can change all the players & completely redo almost anything but that’s down to lack of licenses, don’t think pes had much else going for it
@@jackninetynine5036 also, me personally I am in love with Pes 2010's menus. I think those are the best menus in the whole franchise and would love this hypothetical game with that style of menus
I played FM since 2012, i remember finding FIFA manager 14 while looking for FM 14, i enjoyed both. FIFA manager 14 is more enjoyable overall, more exciting, yet laid back, whereas playing FM felt more intense, more 'life-like'.
i think a lot of changes in football manager are in the background like the AI, etc. graphics, set pieces and training i agree with, and to be honest the game is already so advanced there is not much to improve on imo
FM or any football game should not be a yearly release . I've played every FM for the last few years and honestly some years it feels like there has only been a ui design change. As for FIFA , I've stopped playing it but the same applies there
@@Nooblettoo i just dont buy every one, and still think that the match engine has improved greatky (just not graphics). a lot of the good changes are ones that arent noticable i think
Best gaming days of my life we’re having football on the radio, playing PES/FIFA all Saturday afternoon. It was bliss. Nowadays everything is geared towards online competition. And when you get online competition, you get META. And when you get META, you get stuck or bored unless you’re into online competition.
For football manager I can't agree, I mean they made the game available for the largest number of fans. If they improved the graphics the game wouldn't be playable for those who don't have a great computer to run it. To be honest I don't care about the graphics, I prefer managing, finding great players and winning trophies. The only change that I want is the press conference and its impact on the players, the other coaches and the club. Football manager is the only game that you mentioned that hasn't got worse over the years.
I know this is kind of late but I feel like on field quality should have a setting where the graphics can fluctuate between what we currently have and a more advanced and realistic quality (not sure if possible but sounds reasonable). If an Xbox360 can run fifa 12 then I thnk even the worst laptops today can run similar graphics. I also like where the additional comments in press conferences can go with AI integration. I feel like in 2 years the whole cookie cutter answers will only be there to speed run through conferences lol
Had some great drunken PES game nights with friends when the game was fun in the mid 00s. Over realistic gameplay has ripped the fun out of most video games.
FIFA 17 has been my go to for years, I love the body feint dribbling and making transfers with the ability to know if it’ll be realistic or not 13 or 14 would be ideal, that’s football prime for me, so many dynasties and players in their prime. But from memory the celebrations/crowd were really really bland
Fifa 09 was my all time fave fifa but 23 is better in everywat other than the missing features so nostalgia is deffo a part of it. Fifa needs an online career mode big time. Making a private career with up to lets say 6 friends woth all of em being any team in the game not already chosen by another player would be amazing, pretty much career like it is now but online, could make it interesting with online player career too. Problem is they wont do that cause people wont be playing FuT as much so less money
The worst thing is that Fifa games have completely unsatisfying gameplay in the recent years. Players literally float and the balls glitch through legs or the goalkeepers hands. The dribbling also feels so inconsistent and awful. Overall these games today are not even close to the level of detail, realism and enjoyment from the 2000-2010 games.
I remember when you had the possibility to create your own free kick running routes. The amount of time I spent creating new tactics for them to work maybe once in game was worth the struggle of perfecting them. It also was fun to see free kick variations in real life and then putting them in the game to try. This feature was heavily underrated and I still miss it to this day
Pes3,4,5,6 Were incredible 4 years. You can literally see the game chages improving. This was before internet & online gaming became big. You faced your opponent in the same room as you. Pes 8,9,10 etc. Is the Ps3 era with football games changing from then.
the original fifa street game deserved a mention imo. The most fun fifa game I’ve ever played
Yea that was a FUN game. We’ll never get anything like that again
bruh I’ve been waiting for fifa to add an actual way to nutmeg players in the regular games that’s not just glitching and scripted misses
Oh damn that's right.
I've been playing FIFA Street 2 for almost 17 years now.
Great great game.
When you heard EA BIG you knew you were in for a treat
@@TheCrankyTechnician
I liked Fifa Street 1 a little bit more but both of them were excellent . It s a shame they didn' t continue with that series . Volta doesn't even come close in my opinion .
Yeah volta is embarrassing, why didn’t they just do fifa street
I wish there was a football game that combined fifa and fm
Ye the details and graphics of fifa and the depth and focus on information on fm
Don't we all...
The thing is EA is more than capable of doing it but we know they never will
@sym EA designs these games with little to no effort and / or change. They want to maximize net profit, which means they make short cuts to design FIFA, knowing that they have bugs and glitches that they can easily fix.
@@Yoummzz I get it to an extent like they want things to add to the game every year to sell the game & not run out of ideas but career mode has so many things that could be added the last few years have been so disappointing in terms of new features
PES is one of my favorite sports games ever, it's tough to accept that it's basically gone. I just felt it always had a more realistic feel than FIFA. I also liked the way that you could create or alter almost everything. FIFA is really the only choice at this point. It's OK, and the presentation is always stellar, but the gameplay never has measured up to PES. Seems like the decline in football games mirrors the decline in all sports games. It just feels like developers don't put a lot of work into sports games. As you alluded to in the video, there are countless features that were available on systems that were much less powerful than today's consoles that are no longer included.
Played PES for years and blamed Fifa even tho never tried it before, then i did Fifa and man Pes is just bulshit that i wasted so many years playing and blaming Fifa players for no reason the game is Perfection! I give Fifa 10/10 Pes 3/10
@@flux9433 Depends on when you played PES. Back in the 2000s PES was by far a better game. FIFA improved over the years to catch up to PES while PES faded. But to me PES was a much more realistic game.
@@pelicanhill3251 Makes sense
@@pelicanhill3251 exactly, PES 6 was the last time PES was better than FIFA
Also PES almost always had better graphics than fifaz along with better face models
Your timeline is completely accurate. The amount of features we had in those older Manager modes on FIFA compared to the barebones tired existence it is today, it's truly astounding
Yeah his timeline felt accurate. I think I played FIFA 2008 and 2010 the most and the soundtracks of them were fantastic.
No way man. It died in 2008 like the author of the video said and I completely agree with him. If you haven't lived through the 90s you just can't imagine how groundbreaking the ISS Pro Evo series was. The series became mainstream when PES 3 finally became available on PC but before that only die hard fans knew what it was all about. As for the Pro Evo 2 series some of the stuff it had was just crazy. If back in 2000 you came from FIFA to ISS: PE2 your jaw would drop at how crazy good it was. It literally made FIFA games that came out 4-5 years later irrelevant.
@@mesicek7I figured this out wayyyyy to late, I was always a FIFA person what a fucking shame.
PES from 2016 onwards were all pretty outstanding in my opinion. The actual football was so rewarding and responsive, but improvements from game-to-game were pretty stagnant. In the last game before eFootball I was still hearing the same commentary lines I'd been hearing for almost a decade.
Yes! PES 2019 one of my favorites
Pes 2021 the best football game ever released in my opinion
Pes 2017!!!
2018 was a very good game too
Pes is more realistic but realistic football is boring when we're talking about videogames. I love the realism in pace, touches and overall movement of the players but it can get slow and repetitive while sometimes it makes me feel like I don't have the control/freedom over the players.
I grew up with PES from 06 to 2013. After 2014 it went downhill
FIFA has a lot of problems similar to other modern online games (such as COD), the drive towards store content and in game transactions rather than providing a quality game and the manipulative matchmaking.
Ultimate team transfer market used to be fun as you could occasionally pick up a bargain or make a killing on a sale, now its just very bland. And the Career Mode/Manager Mode just hasn't really developed enough.
I still remember how fuming I was when they introduced price caps. It was all because of how coin selling was destroying the need for people to buy fifa points, i haven’t played that game mode since lol. I just pick it up on sale/free every year and play career mode😂
And career modes just purposely held back so that people get bored and try out FUT, all these “problems” we have with the game are very much done/ignored on purpose as part of some kind of business technique😂 it’s sad and so so blatant, yet you’ll still find people defending this company
And worst thing is, they know they'll make the sales. Look at the big TH-camrs, spending thousands a week on FP, buying the game every year regardless of how bad it was the year before because "they need the game to make money" (basically you've gotten at a point where you made a terrible decision basing your channel on one game only...). Those big TH-camrs that complain about the game being bad are a big part of that exact problem. And because of FUT, nothing else gets much attention cause why would they. Even looking at FUT itself, it used to be fun, every now and then some cool cards would come out. Now we have promos every week with million of SBCs and we'll only get more cause the more we get the more money they make.
You’re trippin…. Fifa is possibly the only game that is played in esports and has the most server problems. There’s not a single person in the world that plays fifa that can’t say they don’t have shit connection in champs, unresponsive ness and hackers. Doesn’t matter if you got 500mps, 10-20 ms heading into the game bcuz when you’re actually in the game it’s laggy af. It’s the only game that has these problems
Career mode is more immersive with FIFA 22 and 23 but the problem is that these modes are just broken. There's so many freezes and bugs exclusive for career mode that the experience isn't even worth it. If it did properly work it would be an above decent mode.
Pes 6 is simply the greatest football sim of all time, also the fact you mention how elite ryan babel could get was quite nostalgic for me as he was my star striker of endless goals, assists and appearances in master league for at least 10 seasons
I've been playing FIFA since FIFA 06, starting on the PS2. I've seen features come and go, such as team creation and player creation. When I played for a youth team, I spent hours recreating the team badge and kit colours and creating each one of my teammates to put in the squad, stats and faces. I was never too into online play and FUT wasn't too appealing, I only made a FUT team after increasing peer pressure from my teammates in FIFA 13 on Xbox 360 (even then I only ever played against the AI). But I could see the direction FIFA was heading from there, FUT is essentially legal gambling for minors and I pumped a fair amount of money into it. What I never understood was why people were so excited to buy the new game (which was essentially the old game, often with features removed) and start the entire process again from scratch. Most of my FIFA playing has always been single player, I liked tournaments and career mode or even just kickoff. I play it to relax, playing FIFA is second-nature to me. But some of my favourite features aren't there anymore, single player just doesn't bring in the cash like FUT does. I'm really hoping that the new EA Sports FC game will re-add some of those old features and be more customisable with less pressure to be realistic. I also hope they'll release it and update it rather than making us buy a new game every year but this seems unlikely. Also, shout out to FIFA Manager RIP
Yes agree game for relax like euro truck simulator
I can't believe they got rid of Practice Matches. Why?? To get people playing ultimate team more??
Its EA. As soon as they got exclusive deals, they just didn't try. I'm a fan of the Madden games as well an the same thing happened there. Madden 05 was great, you could create teams, you could create fans. There were radio shows and decent 'media' coverage in game. But once EA signed an exclusive deal with the NFL, they just stripped it all in favour of bleeding players dry with the FIFA born UT.
Hopefully, now FIFA and EA have partied ways, ot encourages them to give us a decent game.
I remembered player creation though my brother was the bigger football fan I made a French footballer called Bon bon.
In 2018 a 14 year old from Cork sent his family into overdraft the month before Christmas.
really interested in you trying out this new style of content. I think this can take your channel as high as you want.
When it comes to EA sports, Ultimate Team is what kills the games. There are only two games I know of that don’t have Ultimate Team and is an EA Sports game, F1 and UFC.
Notice that the regress is in not only football simulator games but also in almost every part of our day-to-day life.
That's because you let it regress
@@markking4015 bingo. It was exactly me who went to EA headquarters to teach innocent employees scam.
@@Stoicism1989 thought as much sir
It's capitalism
We peaked as a society around 2015-2016
I'm 46 and played them all - you nailed it with the peak being 2006 - 2012. PES 2004-6 (really ISS from '98 to '06) was the best football on console, but Konami couldn't seem to cope with the transition to the PS3 era and shift to online gameplay. FIFA and FUT took over, and probably peaked around FIFA 12/13/14. FUT was still quite innocent then, but the focus shifted to the esport competitive scene around 2016, and the focus now is on "Weekend League" and players having to essentially put in full-time job hours in order to keep up with the market and play matches in a fixed timeframe. Lazyness, a lack of focus on gameplay, awful servers, and greed, caused the decline in FIFA.
We are in an interesting time though - there are at least 2 new potential franchises in the works, and the reboot of FIFA next year via EAFC. The gaming industry overall is in a very stale state, however EA's ugly vision of the sport potentially no longer being this football monolith in the industry gives some hope that competition will lead to innovation (as it did back in the mid-to-late 2000s - when EA stole most of what Konami did well and improved on it).
I have been playing football games since early 90's (I'm 36). I fell in love with ISS Pro in 1997 and have been a HUGE fan of the Franchise until PES 2021.
Didn't like the 2008 till 2012 period. Loved PES 2013 as a game, because it was complete. Started to love it less after PES 2014 (they were deleting more and more mods).
I hate this game since E-Fornite-Football 2022.
The problem today: more focus on the money than the quality. And this won't change anymore, because they are making a lot of money while bringing out a shitty game...and people pay.
The football game era is done, less effort, more money.
Well, I don't agree about the peak, I have also played them all, and after PES 6, and a couple of bad games, PES 2013 is by far the best football game ever. ( PES 6 is fun, good, but people talk about it more highly because of the nostalgia )
Iss and pro evo were the pinnacle from 97 to 03 first signing of master league was always super cheap Patrick mboma then taribo west for those green dreadlocks lol
@@marko_1marko
PES 2006 is the most fun to play , PES 2013 was the most well-made
@@crusades_shall_set_you_free_88 I can agree with that
Best part is it’s on purpose lol
Man, I loved to play Fifa 99 on PC. The opening is something so magical. And the playgame it's obvious less accurate than today's games, but it was something so different, evolved, compared to the Fifa 96 for example. And now the games lost some of the simplicity that push backs potential new gamers.
The statistical data in those older PES games were so much more detailed than in the modern equivalents.
Konami has been steadily cutting the budget to their games since the 2010's, while adding too many new moves and complicating the control system.
Madness
The move from PES to eFootball was a total downgrade. It's now built around features that encourage players to spend coins and GP, they don't care about anything else
I get this argument but honestly 20 and 21 are outstanding titles, while they keep some issues of old and could always do with more work, the game looked and felt great, the stadiums looked incredibly almost lifelike and with the updated lighting system daytime games especially were almost uncanny how real they looked and played. I get that the heyday was that sort of 2005-2010 era so it's easy to dismiss all later titles but there was a ton to like in the most recent editions.
I dont even know how can they still keep the football licenses
I've been trying Football Life 23 which is essentially PES 2021 but free and without online, just singleplayer for us purists. And the game is good! It's far from perfection but there are gameplay mods that make it so much better, plus I have installed like 500+ stadiums for maximum immersion.
I'd recommend it to anyone who's a bit tired of FIFA's shit.
Might have to check it out. Thanks for the suggestion!
checked it out and it is very interesting but my PC can only run up to PES 2017
That sounds good
Is it available for consoles? Which leagues does it have?
@@MundoSportiva Nope, just for PC. As for the leagues I will tell you from memory. Leagues with first and second divisions; England, Spain, France, Italy and Brazil. Leagues with first division only; Germany, Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark, Scotland, Serbia (replaces Swiss league), Portugal, Turkey, Russia, Argentine, Chile, Colombia, United States, China, Indonesia (replaces Thailand) and Japanese.
Everything is fully licensed and updates are frequent. As of right now the devs are releasing individual stadium packs for each league/region, so far we've got England, Scotland, Italy, Spain, France, Germany, Russia, Turkey, Belgium, Portugal and the Netherlands, more to come soon.
I agree with all the points in this video - my fondest memories of football games were local multiplayer PES 3 - 6, and online clubs FIFA 2009. Granted there's probably some nostalgia bias but the modern games just aren't gripping anymore, and it's a real shame what happened with PES.
Fifa 15 was decent but the decline was there onwards
My introduction to football games was PES 2008. I truly enjoyed it, I've played PES 11, FIFA 18 and 19. Nothing comes close to how PES 2008 made me feel.
I played it a lot too, but when i got pes 11 it was so so much better. And then Fifa 13 and 14 which i still play fifa 14.
Or maybe that's nostalgia?
@@aitoluxd 100% nostalgia
Seriously, I am so surprised this video says that PES 2008 was bad, I loved that game.
Play fifa world cup 2014,it's enjoyable
With the last Development Update seems that FM is ready for another big improvement in 25, at least on the graphic side. Switching to Unity seems great news, but the update that blowed my mind is the possibility, from FM24, to carry your save games from one FM to the next one! There is hope in FM, much more than in FIFA (where it seems more and more FUT related: the trailer of the next EA SPORTS FC 24 seems a trailer for ONLY that game mode) and e-Football...
This comment is 2 months old, but damn the new feature announcements for FM24 are pretty fire.
@@venettore3601 We should get 1 great game in FM 24 as it supposed to be the culmination of what was best in FM so far with those new features added. After that we should get a proper sequel which the creators with all their experience could fully build from the ground. Good times for FM fans.
It's also worth noting that your earliest football game simulation experiences are most likely your most memorable. For me, it was championship manager, ea's world cup 98 and PES6. Also, football in those years was much more enjoyable to watch; more technical, more balanced etc, thus creating a greater drive to video game in the same genre.
You are absolutelly right. I really stopped watching football for some years. It's so dull in comparison with football fro 90s/00s.
Also I feel that for me it shows how good was PES6 that it surpassed my beloved FIFA RTWC 98 (oh the joy of winning World Cup with Vanuatu and indoor mode) and 2001.
@@Michal_Bauer i feel like football became much more centered in getting results than in being entertaining, thus it became a lot more tactical and removed a lot of freedom from the players
One of the biggest things that killed PES was when they stopped you saving your developed Master League team's stats to a memory card so you could play your mates. Instead it would save the original stats so all that hard work on the pitch was for nothing. PES 21 did bring this back (without the memory cards) and it is a decent game, sadly for Konami I think they sorted this too late
I disagree FM did not have a huge improvement. If you compare FM 2010 and 2023 you will see they are totally different games. The tactical part (that is the main one) changed a lot.
Agree
But since the tactical revamp it's basically been the same game
@@Victor-gz8ml if it ain't broken...
And yet, FM 2010 is simpler, more fun, and basically does the same thing. They just added fluff, the game is basically the same, but takes more time to play
@@Impacto92yt exactly, theres not much more FM can do to improve, they are only adding gimmicky content for the sake of making the game different. Sometimes the constant expectation to improve is what ruins companies, sometimes you just need to maintain the level you are at.
Nothing beats CM 01/02..Football manager 2005/06 and PES 3 4 5 6. Those days were the best. Im 37 will never forget those days. God bless u all !!
The golden age of fifa will always be fifa World Cup 2006-fifa World Cup 2014
🌉🏆🏟️
The og fifa street came out during that time too
@@bennybombo true that game was great just playing as England with tracksuits as kits.
World cup 2010 is my all time favourite
@@Airyed yeah WC2014 Improved the qualifying adding the preliminary rounds
Football Manager is fine, you just have to accept that you’re either paying for updated data (players, competition tweaks, Brexit, etc) each year; or you simply only buy a new version every four or five years.
FM is about regens
Crazy to not mention pes 2011, 2012, and 2013 phenomenal titles that I feel still really play well. Also champions league presentation in these was great.
2011 and 2013 yes but 2012 felt weird imo
@@EdisArchive In all honesty, I've played 2011, 2012 and 2013, and 2012 had the best UI design out there
@@namholephuong117 I don't remember it that much but I'll believe you
I miss the days of FIFA 13 and PES 2013 on my PSP, good times.
I still have the games, the PSP is just finished.
The reason Fifa sucks, is because it's become too skill based with randomness taken out.
In pes 6, you can cross the ball into the area and pray for a goal, and you might score.
In fifa, you can only score that way if you use that exact technique and sweet spot that some fifa-youtuber taught you, which means all the goals you score look the same (trivela shots, german (early) cross, sprint down sideline and score by tap-in etc).
Pes 4-6 is still lightyears ahead in gameplay because of the extreme amount of nuances the newer football games dont come close to.
I'd say FIFA is somewhat better (as an e-sport) than PES because of the extreme precision involved, while still allowing for some randomness. There's too many variables in PES that players can't control, especially defending, so pro PES players tend to run ridiculous scorelines and unrealistic formations like 2-3-5 at the end of games
Yeah Fifa sucks, I lose against my nephew he's not even 10 he always does the same sh*t he himself realize was working to goal, when you get older you try different approach to the game because you get bored easily, with Fifa you feel restrained to always play the same way to goal/win and it really sucks...
Glad EA lost the right to the FIFA franchise because stagnating for this long with the same title should be a crime.
@@Zahrul3 couldn't be more wrong..
It’s not bad it’s fun it’s the best fifa in the past few yrs
@@Zahrul3 FIFA's precision? Bro, FIFA defending it's a disaster and way tactically inferior to PES.
Amazing no one ever mentions LMA Manager. A short series in the end, but some unique features and a small hardcore fanbase. You could build a new stadium using so many different existing stands and stadia as well as some game created blueprints.
Unbelievable game.
Bloody loved LMA Manager, still find it crazy to this day that they managed to have a Match of the Day-style segment with Gary Lineker and Alan Hansen implemented
PES 6 and PES 08 were immense thanks to Random Select mode. My friends and I would literally play that mode all day and all night. Getting two Ronaldos, two Henrys, two Ronaldinhos... best game mode ever!
One of my all time favourite football games was TIF2004. What a game. Simple, fun, silly and replayable. I genuinely think that developers really need to go back to the drawing and create just a fun experience. Make video games, and make them work well.
I played TIF 2005 and i can confirm that was more enjoyable than other football game, we play to have fun and it statisfied us
I played hundreds of hours of TIF 2005 the game was awful and a buggy mess.
Fucking loved using the 'dive' button and getting the other team down to 8 men almost every game hahaah. Sometimes, if you time it wrong and the ball is not in your possession, the same button did a two footed tackle and you got your own guy sent off, such a fun game lol
The two footed tackle was brilliant. When you lost your head 😂😂😂 crunch! Straight red! But was worth it. A derby game v Sunderland there was always a two footer!
Loved the dive button. So many memories playing it with friends.
Catering to the pace and skill move junkies ruined Fifa. I want to be able to think about how my team is setup and how I can get the best of them (like real football right?), but instead I just have to strive for players with high pace and spend hours learning skill moves that only a handful of real players can actually do. It's mind numbing now.
I dont think it's just football game
I think it's sports game in general
I even think it's... video game, in general
Just to begin with : when I bought a game on my PS2, it was a finished one
The community ? It was chatting with your friends IRL and/or go to their house to play, to discuss about how to progress, about secret easter eggs maybe
Just look at what they did with God of War... and the (fake) people praising it. Sure it gotten worse.
Cricket 24 has full customisation and no micro transactions
It's true football games hit a zenith in the early 2000s pre-online gaming. From that point onwards the on field gaming has remained relatively unchanged apart from very gradual graphical improvements. It's absolutely unacceptable that certain things STILL remain absent from football games. Why can I still not decide where my players stand at corner kicks, free kicks etc. Why can I not change my throw in taker, I don't want my centre forward taking the throw just because he was nearest to the ball. Why is there a countdown on dead balls so if I haven't kicked it in that time the AI just kicks it for me? Why, after I've changed my corner kick or free kick taker does it STILL not remember my selection and every time I get a corner I have to manually change it! Why can't I edit real players, some are the wrong skin colour, or the wrong height, or just look like shrek, why can't I edit that when there's a full fat edit mode in the game with pretty decent player creation tools. Why is the control scheme still the same? There should be an option to have defensive and attacking controls, I'm sick to shit of clicking X to tackle but the game bizarrely registers the X input as a pass and boots it out of play even though I didnt have the ball when I clicked X! Absolute piss take lazy programming and this upcoming EAFC24 will be exactly as shite.
Online gaming really has killed off innovation in pretty much every genre of game, including football games. People playing each other online gave the developers a lightbulb moment that rather than spend millions developing the offline simulation of football, it was far more profitable to sell ultimate team nonsense to people who really should know better. The feedback loop of earning coins and buying "packs" hit that pleasure centre of the game that is also tickled by people addicted to gambling. I never understood it, I tried it and found it incredibly counter-productive. From 1996 to the early 2000s we all bought football games for a simulation, i.e realism. We played with real squads and got enjoyment from this. So I have no idea why everybody migrated to some daft online mode where you invent a team name in a league of infinite teams with unrealistic lineups. I don't know why EA didn't just go full steam ahead and set the games on the moon and throw in mario kart style power ups into the matches, it was already a deeply unrealistic mode so why not just keep going and give us unlockable 'DKmode' big heads like in Goldeneye.
I could rant for hours. But in a nutshell, any easily pleased gibbon that bought into ultimate team has contributed to the death of football games. If online matches hadn't taken off, right now we'd have had 15 years of progress. We'd have a career mode where Bellingham moves to a European heavyweight, rather than moving to West Ham or Villa.
Amen to that
remember, pes 5 and 6 already had online option back then already, and you can play them nowadays thanks to unofficial servers still up to this day!!!
For me the best football game with regime and gameplay was PES 2012. It's a pity that there wasn't an option to play manager of a national team.
I think the difficult thing with FM is its played across multiple platforms but is best on laptop or pc, I think most people don't have a good enough laptop to play FM with good graphics, meaning they could ostracise a big part of their community if they massively updated the graphics
It also comes with getting older..I remember fifa on the mega drive, then I was massively into PES throughout ps1/ps2 era. Also Champ Manager then Football Manager. Im sure a lot of us just want a solid sim that is suited to playing one player, against the cpu. The best was obviously Pes5/6 on ps2. Also liked the first Pes on ps2 and all the ps1 versions. Amazing that those games are still better than what we have today.
Tbh these games just don't hit the same anymore, I quit on them and when something huge comes out I may come back
I wish there was a football game that allows you to casually create team where you add players from other teams like moving files to another folder and have them play with your other custom team. At least, you wouldn't have to spend too much fifa coins for just one player and the players will stay forever. It should be called "Sandbox Mode".
Basically what every old fifa and pes had in playstation 2 era and back.
I have to agree, PES 6 was the King of Football and i played it for years. I never really came back to FIFA after getting PES 5. I got disappointed by PES 08 and 09 so i stopped buying new football games all together. But now i have a modded PES 2021 career going that is 13 years in. Its fun to see old players coming back super young and thus shifting the power levels and teams around.
PES always had the better and more varied gameplay than Fifa, thats why i havent bought a FIFA since 03 to this day.
One thing that is horrible about older football games is it their gameplay doesnt hold up and they've aged poorly. Ofc the games looked spectacular for their time, but playing any older FIFA than 14 in 2023 is a disaster
Idk, I'm having fun playing pes 5 right now,having a better time than playing fifa 23
@@aguyjr Nah
@@aguyjr the only nostalgia is the player roosters and ofc the main menu music but the gameplay, even tho might be considered outdated to some is actually still engaging imo
@@MrKrewie im 100 % on you the gameplay is better then the current fifas. i mean it can have it changes but overall its way better :). yeah for me the nostalgie part is the teams and the music on the old fifa games.
I miss the Winning Eleven / PES days, now its just frustrating to play, back in the day you needed to be more skilled in the use of the joypad to win and it was also more fun, but also generations change and have to accept that now I´m just an Old School gamer who miss the old days.
I think the reason the cash grab has unfortunately been so successful is because there's practically an ingrained tradition among football fans to buy the new game every single autumn. And forget all the money they spent on packs the year prior, that game may as well be ancient history as far as they're concerned. The only fightback is to vote with their wallets but they won't.
It's what happens when greedy corporations care more about the money then the product they put out and its customers who make them that money. Ea is notorious for this and it's disappointing
All corporations are greedy lol, they're just here to make money, ABC of Capitalism.
@@torenico if the consumers stop buying their crap game they will change remember how bad the PS3 was on lunch that the Xbox overtook the PS3 in that gaming generation sony learnt from that and released the ps4
You summed up everything I think about football games in one video, congrats.
FIFA killed PES and changed its target audience, it just doesn't care about those who want good gameplay, they just want the money from brats who love to play running with Mbappe and Vini Jr.
FM is an excellent game, I'm still playing it today, but it hasn't added anything new for years, it could be so much better.
it's sad to see that nowadays developers choose money over fun/good gameplay
There was this one mode in PES where you select a few teams and the game randomise and generates players from those teams to become one team and you can play on the field with their custom kits and badges. Good times ❤
The peak of football games were late 90. FIFA 98 and CM3. I could play both today for hours and have incredible fun.
FM is still a good game.
Pes between 03-06 is untouchable, no version of fifa comes close.
Lumping in FM with those other 2 games is not fair at all
You've nailed it about PES. It was the pinnacle. Looking at that Master League made me so nostalgic. I spent WAY too much time building players and teams. I'm glad I gave up around 2008/9, as it had indeed peaked.
The sort-of-precursor ISS on the N64 was a classic before that too. Actua on PS1. Super Soccer on SNES. And was it World Cup '90, the arcade vintage? 20p a pop. Showin' my age there. Good times.
Actua Soccer, i remember it in the 90s!
@@_joeshantaram_ Yes, it was fantastic. It seemed so far ahead at the time - the way you could bend and dip the shots. I can still hear the voice of Barry Davies "And he shoots! Oooooh, just wide!" or "he's not the tallest of players but he rose perfectly". I'd love to have a game on it now. Rai, Zinho, Romario, GOAL!! :)
@@johnmichel4865 I think i'm going to install one of those games on steam, funnier than the modern games! Sorry for my english i'm from Italy
I'm mid 30's now, Pes was amazing on the ps2, it was THE football franchise for that console.
What I love from FIFA is its slider settings. Each series EA constantly changes its early release gameplay into faster gameplay later, and slider setting really helpful for players who dont like faster gameplay.
While on PES peoples can do player and teams customization in easy ways, even without mod.
Each have its pros and cons. I love to see football games with PES physic combine with FIFA visual. Impossible right?
Simple reason for me: Large market, little competition. No new competitors allowed these companies to stop trying as hard and it's hard to get into the market as EA and Konami own most of the rights to clubs.
there is no micro in fm
The problem is the consumer. Sports gamers are different to mainstream gamers. A lot of fifa players, play fifa exclusively and are not into others. This creates a market condition where regardless of output, they will repeat purchase every year. The game publishers realised this and this is why all sports games are copy and paste fests with fancy buzz words sprinkled in every year. They quality won’t change until the consumer does.
The thing that made Fifa be fun was that they actually had competition earlier in their company and that motivated them to make better fifa games such as Fifa 13 and 14
13 and 14 are top 3 fr.
I agree with some of this except PES 2017-2021 was actually really good and the reviews back this up. I would argue PES 2019 (purely on a gameplay front) is still the best football game around. I think Konami realised around 2021 that a good football game was still not going to compete with Fifa unless they went down the same route of monetising it to the max with a focus on online play.
PES6 was my favourite. as friends we use to meet up and set up a custom league, around 8-10 teams, and literally play a whole day. We would take turns to pick players to put into your custom team. Eventually we had to ban anyone picking Inter’s Adriano. he was too OP
Haha bro i could literally write the same comment. Good times eh
@@maxdata8579 great times. No packs. No credit cards. Just skill. And if someone beat you it was because they was better
@@theblackhand1 exactly!
I've been a very active football manager player since the 2008-2009 season. The graphics are poor, but that's not a point that players want specificaly to see changed. There's been a recent announcement explaining that the game will change a lot in version 25 and that version 24 will be a transitional version. FM works with big changes every 10/15 years and small improvements every year.
This is a great video. My issue with PES/eFootball is that it's been forever since they've had the Bundesliga (which is the European league that I most follow) and that I don't think they've ever had a camera comparable to the End to End camera they have in FIFA. In regards to FIFA it pisses me off that they got rid of the creation centre as I want the Canadian Premier League in the game.
I loved PES too and as a German had to mod it every single time before I started a new Version. :D Do you like the Bundesliga because of Davies or other canadian players or how did it happen?
@sebastians4920 My background is German and my club is Hertha as that's where my mom was born. I love watching Davies but just wish he'd hold back when playing Hertha haha.
@@sebastians4920 In FIFA gibt es jedoch die erste, zweite und dritte Liga, weshalb man darauf angewiesen ist.
I'm just glad I enjoyed the golden era as a teenager and young adult. I had tons of great fun in the 4 legends (fifa, pes, fifa manager, fm), it just makes me sad to think that these titles are in decline.
I loved Pes 2 Master League on the PS1 and I was shocked how badly it declined. I still play FIFA 17 on PS4 for the fun compared to any of the titles that have come later (haven't played 23)
I believe the big thing missing from fifa career mode is the culture of football, the same bland commentators, no podcasts, no transfer rumors, no inside training antics, no off-pitch drama, no real interviews, the same cup-lifting animation, the same signing animation, no loan with option to buy.
It's something that i think the NBA 2k games do better than FIFA, yes they release the same product with better graphics, but at least there's a pregame show and courtside interviews, shoe deals where they give you a presentation on what your shoe would look like, and college ball, you feel more in touch with basketball in career mode.
Also, there are no international competitions, which means all you really have is club football, literally the additions of the various continental cups and the world cup would make career mode feel fresh.
Also there is no way to feel connected with your teammates, which is something that exists in NBA 2k
I must say, I retired from FIFA after 2002, 2003. I could never master PES, so I have always played Football Manager, from PC Football, Championship Manager and the first named. My favorite versions are the ones from 2007 and 2008. I liked 2010, though, not as much as 2008. 2012, 2014 nah. This year I bought the game again and I really like how it is. Although even when I can, I keep playing FM 2008...
Try playing fifa world cup 2014 it's an absolute blast
Football manager did have a rival years prior and wouldn't you know it, it also came from EA, it was called Fifa Manager and it was an amazing project that rivaled football manager for quite some time but they stopped making them after Fifa Manager 14 because their sale numbers was so low.
And it also still gets updated for each new season by a dedicated fanbase ... I feel like EA figured out that fans of the series didn't need to buy their games anymore to update the database entirely including player portraits, stadiums, emblems and so on and so forth themselves and stopped making it.
Whilst I agree with most of what you’ve said here, I’m actually think the gameplay in the latest PES is actually pretty good and allows for so much flexibility and creativity in terms of tactics and the way you play. I do totally agree that it is completely lacking a soul or any kind of real identity. It all feels so forced and like it’s trying too hard to be cool. Just give me master league with that engine, some bug fixes here and there, and I’ll play that all year.
Peak for me was the late 80's and 90's. There used to be so many football games, all of which were fun to play. Now it's monopolised by the same brands and the fun has gone out of it.
Greed ruined gaming in general
I don't think comparing fm with the other 2 are realistic. It has a complete different game style. I would imagine myself not playing fm anymore if, it becomes like football arcade game. The fun of playing fm is always the sideline manager point of view, looking and developing new young potential players, the micromanagement of things. Of course, I mean improvements are needed. I agree that scout system and press conference has been boring and sometimes unnecessary. Match engine, I always wanted to see the overall movements becoming more realistic and more varieties of movement rather than it "becomes" other football game. It's called fm for a reason, you can't control a player and make him shoot
FM still great, not a downfall like the other two.
Yeah but some years the games new features don't justify a yearly release, they are like small patches with a new ui
Ngl my favourite FM is FM07, but that's just because of the nostalgia of it being my first ever FM game. It's improved leaps and bounds, but I sometimes go back to my liverpool save on FM07 in 2034!
For me, pes 12, 13 & fifa 12, 13 were the pinnacle of gaming.
Pes dropped the ball badly with pes 14... I remember my friends and I using patches until pes 16, which was manageable.
Spot on!
The disrespect to PES 2013. That game is goated.
FM has not got worse though. The older games are unplayable now compared to the newer ones
FM's issue is less that the games have gotten worse and more that each new game adds less and less for features. I still enjoy them but I know that even some hardcore fans will only buy every 2 or 3 years due to lack of changes
@@symptomofsoulsFM problem (my main issue) is the match engine just follow the mainstream tactics. Back in FM04-08 their meta tactic is just wing play 442 or 433 09-14 tiki taka and now is gegenpress 4231/433DM wide. We can't play tiki taka, cattenacio, or direct ball unless you manage Man City Madrid or Barcelona nowadays which is suck.
@@bimapriambada1098 fm23 is much more balanced. The only issue is you cannot play possession unless you are one of the best clubs in the league. I have had success with gegenpress, vertical tiki taka and route 1 this year
The target audience of FIFA and PES were always kids and teens, I think they realized over the years that going for the arcadey gameplay was more profitable. My 11-year-old nephew is obsessed with Ultimate Team, now they even have cards of players dressed up as superheroes.
That's why I think the PES mid 00's era is looked back on so strongly, as it was more obviously designed towards people from late teens to mid 30s instead
Dont think fm got worse, from the 2012 fm there were some bad versions for sure but I am having a great time playing fm 23, it is not worse just different. Just like FIFA 17, it was a great game and I had lots of fun personally
Great vid so well articulated. Been playing fifa and pes since FIFA 08 and I think it died when ultimate team was released. And as FIFA have no competition, they have no reason to innovate. SBMM, packs, no new modes, tiny changes to gameplay. It’s not worth playing now as it’s not fun
I agree with the decay of FIFA and PES. But in my opinion FM its getting better and better making it the most complete and accurate football experience in videogames.
Real problem is the urge to sell one game every year, devs won't really release everything they have or could this year so they can have stuff for next year. They make so much money with this tactic that they stop updating the 22 game months before the release of the 23 one
FiFA 06 was by far the greatest ...
Bro, i agree with a lot, but if you haven't tried PES 2015-2018, you def should. Probably my favorite football games of all time. Also you neglected the ISS era
All games got worse when they added the online feature look at single player games what gems they are no online game comes even close to something like red dead 2 last of us witchers 3 and so on the have one thing in common they don't shove down competitive and online play down ur troath and those games are so much better.
Definitely true what you say about the simplicity of old FIFA. It's like the whole point of gaming, to have fun and enjoy playing, has been completely forgotten about.
Awesome video man! I have a question though, what would make the ultime football video game experience? Like which features could we take from each franchise to make the ultimate football video game? I think that's an interesting idea for a video and would spark the debate.
FIFA’s licenses, presentation & gameplay. Pes’s customisation & FMs menu features
@@jackninetynine5036 I'd rather have FM's customization at least when it comes to databases and graphics. The fact that FM's editor is so easy to use and the community is very dedicated and creative with it makes it so the possibilities are endless
@@mavros6498 yeah I get that for sure, I wish fifa had that kind of editor. With pes it’s more about the clubs, kits & u can change all the players & completely redo almost anything but that’s down to lack of licenses, don’t think pes had much else going for it
@@jackninetynine5036 also, me personally I am in love with Pes 2010's menus. I think those are the best menus in the whole franchise and would love this hypothetical game with that style of menus
@@mavros6498 yeah they used to be good for the time. It amazes me how shocking they made the efootball ones
I played FM since 2012, i remember finding FIFA manager 14 while looking for FM 14, i enjoyed both. FIFA manager 14 is more enjoyable overall, more exciting, yet laid back, whereas playing FM felt more intense, more 'life-like'.
i think a lot of changes in football manager are in the background like the AI, etc. graphics, set pieces and training i agree with, and to be honest the game is already so advanced there is not much to improve on imo
FM or any football game should not be a yearly release . I've played every FM for the last few years and honestly some years it feels like there has only been a ui design change. As for FIFA , I've stopped playing it but the same applies there
@@Nooblettoo i just dont buy every one, and still think that the match engine has improved greatky (just not graphics). a lot of the good changes are ones that arent noticable i think
Best gaming days of my life we’re having football on the radio, playing PES/FIFA all Saturday afternoon. It was bliss. Nowadays everything is geared towards online competition. And when you get online competition, you get META. And when you get META, you get stuck or bored unless you’re into online competition.
For football manager I can't agree, I mean they made the game available for the largest number of fans. If they improved the graphics the game wouldn't be playable for those who don't have a great computer to run it. To be honest I don't care about the graphics, I prefer managing, finding great players and winning trophies. The only change that I want is the press conference and its impact on the players, the other coaches and the club. Football manager is the only game that you mentioned that hasn't got worse over the years.
I know this is kind of late but I feel like on field quality should have a setting where the graphics can fluctuate between what we currently have and a more advanced and realistic quality (not sure if possible but sounds reasonable). If an Xbox360 can run fifa 12 then I thnk even the worst laptops today can run similar graphics. I also like where the additional comments in press conferences can go with AI integration. I feel like in 2 years the whole cookie cutter answers will only be there to speed run through conferences lol
Had some great drunken PES game nights with friends when the game was fun in the mid 00s. Over realistic gameplay has ripped the fun out of most video games.
I still play EAs Football Manager from 2013.
FIFA 17 has been my go to for years, I love the body feint dribbling and making transfers with the ability to know if it’ll be realistic or not
13 or 14 would be ideal, that’s football prime for me, so many dynasties and players in their prime. But from memory the celebrations/crowd were really really bland
Picking the Torres-Liverpool and then "you failed to sign David Silva and David Villa" is a pure throwback.....
Fifa 09 was my all time fave fifa but 23 is better in everywat other than the missing features so nostalgia is deffo a part of it. Fifa needs an online career mode big time. Making a private career with up to lets say 6 friends woth all of em being any team in the game not already chosen by another player would be amazing, pretty much career like it is now but online, could make it interesting with online player career too. Problem is they wont do that cause people wont be playing FuT as much so less money
Pro Evo 2 was the greatest. Great memories holding tournaments down the pub with our Sunday league club.
I think personally the other gamemodes on fifa are so much better than fut but like the graphic difference is unbelievable
The worst thing is that Fifa games have completely unsatisfying gameplay in the recent years. Players literally float and the balls glitch through legs or the goalkeepers hands. The dribbling also feels so inconsistent and awful.
Overall these games today are not even close to the level of detail, realism and enjoyment from the 2000-2010 games.
Fifa 09 was such a good game
I remember when you had the possibility to create your own free kick running routes. The amount of time I spent creating new tactics for them to work maybe once in game was worth the struggle of perfecting them. It also was fun to see free kick variations in real life and then putting them in the game to try. This feature was heavily underrated and I still miss it to this day
which game?
Pes 6 is the ultimate football game then came pes 13
Pes3,4,5,6 Were incredible 4 years. You can literally see the game chages improving. This was before internet & online gaming became big. You faced your opponent in the same room as you. Pes 8,9,10 etc. Is the Ps3 era with football games changing from then.