Febiven's brutal wave manipulation strategy that makes Zed players useless | SkillCapped
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ต.ค. 2024
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Challenger Wave Manipulation: • CHALLENGER - ADC Wave ...
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Video Description:
In this game, CG Febiven on Ryze absolutely destroys Shiphtur's Zed. This super high octane gaming video is a must watch for anyone that gets bodied by Zed in laning phase.
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The one time that Shiphtur doesn't ban Ryze, they make a video about it haha. Poor Chapanya.
Imed Koody shut up bitch!
even dopa bans it
Why so aggressive Steven? Did momma not give you a goodnight kiss? :(
Dopa prefer to ban khazix at 1st or just dodge the champ select ahahah x)
?
This video was *_supposed_* to be out 6 hours ago.
However, a few audio issues later, here we are! Anyway, we really tried to go above and beyond for this video, and everyone involved tried their best to give you guys the most up to date information, the cleanest visuals and the clearest explanations.
If you could *please turn notifications on by pressing the bell*, it would mean so much for our growing channel, as TH-cam has again changed the way that videos get shown to subscribers, which makes it really tricky for us to show you when we have new content out!
If you already have notifications on, first off thank you so much, and second it'd mean so much to us if you *told a friend who feeds to Zed* about this video!
If not, that's okay, we still love you! Have a great weekend everyone - see you on Tuesday!
Noooooo my boys at skillcappedwhy did you have to expose me and my fellow zed onetricks lmao feelsBadMan
peepoS
How do you watch pro replays??
im masters mid play and i often feed against really good Katarina, shes quite unusual assassin i guess, so may the another vid feature her?
i got a question, how can you roam with kassadin when kassadin's waveclear isn't that good?
I've watched several of your 'wave control videos' and I haven't received as much ganks from the enemy jungler as I did before. Already climbed 2 divisions with your videos. Really love these videos, keep up the good work!
Leroy Veldhoen
>tfw you can’t wave control because you’re a support main
But it’s still fun to watch these videos, and I can at least try to help with cs at the right times by pressuring their adc
Plus, I mostly play mid in norms, so it’ll help somewhat. Even tho most norm games I don’t care nearly enough to think about that :P
Thelondonbadger
And I don’t really care enough about the game to do that lol
Gold is gud enough for me if I have to do that to climb more
The secret to winning lane vs Zed
don't get hit OmegaLUL
I play ivern mid into zed.
damn bro india ❤️🇮🇳
“Febiven, the TSM slayer” haha what happened to “the boy that solo-killed faker”?
twice
beating tsm wow much achievement
Febiven killed faker 3 times with zed, twice vs azir, and once vs corki
Maybe a little late to talk about it, but there was a time in the middle of 2015 that for me he was the best in the world, the problem is that for many players, keeping the rhythm and the necessary focus to stay on top is difficult.
If you make a god bleed, people will stop to believe in them... Poor faker :(
EU mids man
they make NA look like trash tbh
Chicken Madness « look like » lmao
lmao
NA in worlds LUL
NA 15-6 EU LUL
Might want to change Shiphturs icon from challenger to diamond...
...just saying.
LMFAOOOOOO
If there's so little difference, explain Redmercy. Guy's been hardstuck D2 for almost 3 years.
Bad dice I bet.
Damn that's fucked up
You all being toxic guys when you are probably silver players
D1 police, hand's up Danny! *WEE WOO WEE WOO*
Let's mention a small detail : had Shiptur played Bone Plating Second wind on secondary tree, he could've sustained Ryze's harass thx to his potion advantage, and pushed the lane to get his level 2 first, or at least force Ryze to use spells on the wave. Afterwards he just had to wait for the rebound and get level 3 when lane is ~reset. At that point, early game is done, he made it through without losing too much HP, hopefully with 2 potions left. He let's lane push, level 4 comes in, he can start dealing some nice damages with a full combo and outtrade Ryze. If Ryze doesn't back TP, he can engage on him at level 5 and force a flash, even take the kill with assist from his jungler. But I guess you kinda took one of the best midlaners versus an average (for his elo) player, not on his main champion, so yeah...
9:41 "ryze his momentum" haha i see you
This video was made for me, Ryze into Zed. Dude, now I know exactly how to roam in ranked.
5 zed mains disliked this LUL
5 Zed mains and a Chapanya 😬
I actually liked this as a Zed main because it could help me get some insight into my opponent's laning.
I'm a lux main and I dislike that it's suggesting that there's any counterplay at all
I needed this ZED OPEN UP
Zed: *deathmarks Q E autos me*
Me: explodes
When explaining what to do as Ahri you explain that a three wave push would be correct where you get 6 of your own minions and 5 of the opponents on the first wave, and then hard push the second so that the third bounces back. But why don't you just NOT push and bounce back and just keep the wave in the middle all the time? No push early, just freeze minions in middle where you end up anyway after 3 waves with the first strategy.
One of the few high quality content Guides for league of legends. Not these "the only guide you need" scam ...
I didn't have the patience for this guide.
I tried to play aggressively against Zed with Ryze, Zoe, Lissandra, LeBlanc and lost everytime. XD
So I came to watch this video again and correct my mistakes. This surely needs some practice, especially because I only play support. :D
Can you make a video of how to beat or control leblanc?. Nice work
Leblanc's two biggest counters are:
- Waveclear
- The 20th minute
Thank me later.
Use morgana mid,that's how faker lost miserably with lb
he didn't lose that because of his lb lmao his team fucking threw
Didn't lose cause of LB lol. EDG's entire team is focused around countering LB and protecting the ADC.
Odd Af thts back in season 3, if im not mistaken hahahaha
While this guide does help to understand how to gain passive advantages to use later, it requires very good performance and not always msot players do have a good play as the player here did. If you really wanna outdo Zed damage you will need a good understanding how it is done and interrupt the sequence the earlier the better. Mostly to survive the ult dive, and ability spam the best thing for now is tam kench he can eat your ally champ while he has been targetted by zed before he reappears and that means all the benefits of the ult damage are undone, and if you put him into cooldown all the better. next thing possible count the seconds it take to zed to reappear after ult execution and time a cc ability on the area he is to appear, either use exaust on him. Can count on rakkan for this bounce up zed and shields to get close fast to peel the damage.
a way to mitigate the wave is to always have a slight push on ryze and making sure you do not let ryze push you off the minion wave. zed is weaker when wave is on his tower and forcing him to use abilities to farm instead of using them to trade. For ryze you need to constantly pressure him in the lane and constantly use ur q to poke. in this video it just shows how bad shiphtur is at the matchup. You have to hit qs and get wave control. he gave the wave up by standing so far back
Really nice Video since I often have Problems with exactly these matchups. Also good balance regarding you previously made a video helping assasins.
Surely this has more to do with click-target abilities vs skillshots though? Febiven was able to dodge Zed's q's whereas ryze's skills were undodgeable.
i highly doubt they overthink every single detail like you do in your videos.
Question: Would you guys do a video on roaming supports and how to effectively roam as a support?
It don't work like that for me. I do the same thing. But as soon as zed is mid life and feeling that my harras will finally kill him. He flash on me, fail his shuriken, auto E auto proc electrocute and wreck 70% of my life. Then... use his ignite to finish the last 30% and i'm dead. The problem with this champ is the huge amount of damage he can deal even if he's played by a monkey. When i look at pro game i always see them standing away from fight and harrass and looking for the good moment to hit. In my elo there are just monkey who rushes you when you're full life and kill you just because riot give them champs that permit those kind of retardness. Imo the level of this game will be much more interesting if there was less damage and longer fight that will require skill. Like in pro game.
I like the typography of your videos.
Awesome video as always. I'd like to see how to deal with harass as a melee against ranged. Also, how does one combat someone who has good wave management? Thanks and keep up the work.
i like the form that you present these concepts. subscribed.
This easily could have gone the other way if Zed's shurikens landed. Zed would have all-in pressure if they were both at about half health, and he would be able to hold the wave just outside his tower range since Ryze slowly pushed. What would you do in this case? It would be dangerous to try to quickly clear the wave and have it bounce back as Ryze, as Zed would all-in while Ryze's abilities are on cooldown.
Nice, very helpful as usual!
So glad to hear that :D
I'm actually learning where Zed appears after he ULTS.. Maybe at the opposite side where he ULTED, the target is the center of the each sides and he'll appear at the other side of the target, not the opposite of the champion where is facing..
Ryze, or for that matter, any reasonably strong ranged champion will shit on a melee during lane, when played perfectly. Lane control, wave manipulation, roaming, trading... everything is controlled by the ranged champion. (When said ranged champion plays perfectly, that is).
not in low elo.
+Sai Teja Vangari in low elo even range anvantage doesnt exist.. that’s why champs like fizz and zed are actually playable.. god i love being gold garbage sometimes. When u are shen and manage to bully ranged toplaners like vayne or jayce it feels so good..
Love how detailed your videos are. Any jungle content coming?
funny because when he got that level 3 ad and did his rotation on zed he also got the cannon minion lol
Nice vid as usual guys, yet I always wonder what would happen if the jungler appears. In this video at 2:40 (ingame) nidalee could have been there and hit a very easy spear. Her burst combined with zed w e q aa ignite would have cost him big time. It's in every video: "what if the jungler had been there?"
Couldn't Shiphtur have backed right after taking the trade because it was a siege wave and his own minion wave was approaching to stop it just out of tower range?
you guys went above and beyond in this video, wow.
Would be nice if you also talk about what shiphtur could have done better or how you are supposed to play against this strategy on the assassin side in general. It would be good for the mage to know what the enemy could try, too.
Very much agreed. If you are asking for advice for either side:
- Any good Zed would have spammed Q and Shadow-Q on the wave/Ryze whenever off cooldown to increase his push, and gotten in a lot more autoattacks. Not only would that have made it more resource-intense for Ryze to keep the wave from pushing into him (thus causing at best a much less problematic fast-push later on before Ryze wants to back - if even that; because if Ryze runs out of mana, he can't push out the wave to back at all; seriously, he doesn't even get close), it would also not have allowed for a "slow-push" at all, because there is simply no wave to stack up left.
Ryze can't respond to Zed's push with any significant harass, either. E costs 60 Mana, has low damage. EW, sure, that's a nice gimmick, but the damage still doesn't do anything to threaten Zed.
And if Ryze ever goes EW (Q for shield) against Zed who's standing behind a minion wave **on level level 3+**, Zed will respond with a long-trade with Shadow-Spin, Shadow-Q+Normal-Q, switch for autoattack, if in range, and then leave back through his wave. He won't get the empowered Q, but he will get the Spin-damage and the 2 Qs, if he just casts in a straight-forward line to where Ryze started casting, because EWQ or EW-Auto take quite a significant time to channel; definitely more than Zed's burst-cast. That's enough for electrocute, and thus more than enough to guarantee an advantageous trade for Zed.
And this type of trade costs Ryze tons of Mana that he then won't have to push out the wave that Zed is actively thinning. So the longer Ryze tries to get out of that dilemma, the harder it becomes for him to leave, so he just has to find a forced opportunity without subjecting himself to a Zed-All-in, and back disadvantageously, at the loss of some XP/Gold. No matter when he wants to back, no matter what he wants to buy.
My mind feels so powerful after watch your videos lol
9.10 - ryze kill combo was e w e q fyi (you said qs).
All that knowledge, it’s so confusing, well I’ll never get to challenger.
Titus Kluge Udsen It's pretty simple
The problem is you most likely won't be able to juke his q. Early on hits width and your speed makes it near impossible plus minion block as become trendy nowadays so good luck getting anywhere
So shiphtur didn’t base because he saw nid coming down the river, where febiven should’ve died to a 2v1 gang while he’s close to the top side. Instead he gets lucky, goes for the kill, and naturally rotated down knowing nid is probably coming down.
Nid getting there 1 or 2 secs earlier is a dead ryze
Zed Q doesn't receive the damage penalty after first hit anymore(he still gets the multi shuriken penalty though)
You guys should do a video on determining your missions
at 10:28 you talk about the three wave gank strategy and explain it like this first wave: slight minion advantage | second wave: hard shove | third wave: will bounce back.
But in the bjergsen video you explain it differently.. first wave: hard shove | second wave: only last hit | third wave: will bounce back.
So does it not matter if you hard shove wave 1 or 2 and the effect will be the same?
It would be nice to understand what the zed should have done to avoid all these little advantages
9:43 Ryze his momentum. I see what you did there... #WhatAPun
Those are good advices against Zed for sure but show me a Febiven ryze laning phase against LL Stylish Zed so you can make an educational video on how to snowball as Zed against a good Ryze :)
Ryze counters zed but i cant see it countering yasuo
Very nice guide, and I'm sure I will use this info as a tf player against zed in my future games. Any way to counter doran's shield starters tho?
insane quality
okay now try to poke zed with a champion with no point-and-click skills
First of all, Shiphtur is a horrible zed, and i remebered watching this match on stream.
He picked zed because his timer was running out, so it wasn't even planned.
Secondly shiphtur is so bad at zed, that he missed 80% of his skillshots in that game, he almost never plays the champion. Try doing this against a good zed, and he will punish ryze everytime he gets in range to trade with zed.
Zed is pretty much a bullshit champion once u know his ins and outs. He can be a lane bully even in though he's a melee mid vs primarily ranged champions. His WEQ does ridiculous dmg from a safe range, and it's manaless.
man your not even close to him, probably some random silver
Actually shiphtur Is a decent Zed and he play Zed pretty often.
You're delusional. Zed is weak early level and is not until lvl 4 where he can get a good powerspike to trade. Ryze did before level 4 killing Zed at level 2.
"Stop dying to Zed"
Step 1: Ban Zed.
Step 2: ...?
Step 3: Profit.
I absolutely always ban him, no matter which lane I get because I prefer not risking having a fed Zed on the enemy team. Zed in soloQ is just absolute cancer.
Rosen Kostov bronze alert
Ryad Ouldji he's the top ban across all ranks, but sure - be original.
Rosen Kostov You’ll never learn how to lane against him if you keep running from him
the most banned champion in high elo doesn't mean this champion in bronze is gonna be godlike, get good and stop crying. you sound like a lux player
Ryad he's even better in low elo (like all assassins) because people are unorganized there. I'm a support main, actually.
iHoeUp I don't play mid. I prefer having a mage instead of an assassin on my team and I don't want to risk having a fed Zed on the enemy team. This is why I ban him. In the rare cases when I don't ban him, I pick Alistar or Janna to mess with him. I know how to fuck him up as a support or peeler (which is what I play most of the time) - this still doesn't change the fact that he can run around and 1-shot carries with just 2 items. Therefore, I ban him.
As a Nidalee main i need to say It
9:32 she can land a clean spear on this timming and would be easy to get the kill because of the tower shot
That type of Explanation that shuts up the type of people that after seeing a replay of a kill like that say "Oh it's so normal it's easy , nothing special here" ! ..
Such an informative channel i love it! Straight to the point!!
Who is watching this to stay alive when 9.4 drops
Disregarding what might be more comfortable for new Ryze players, is mana crystal a better starting item than doran's ring?
I'm super interested in the subscribe guide on your website! I'll make that as my Christmas gift this year! Cheers!
I used these concepts as Lux against a Talon Mid and Wukong Mid. (Talon was S tier on Mobalytics at that point) I was the best player in those games.
febiven the godslayer - his title since the time he solo killed faker
at 5:08 you counted wrong. Zed has 6.5 minions not 7.5.
this got me from bronze 4 to bronze 3 thanks
TBH I feel like the nid should have atleast shown mid instead of sitting in the bush for 10+ seconds, even if she wasn't going to go in for a kill. Trying to land a spear wouldn't draw minion aggro and I doubt Febiven would have flashed for the kill onto zed at that point, he likely would have backed off. But I'm not challenger so what do I know.
what do you do when you need to roam but your wave is near your turret? this gives an easy oppourtunity for the enemy mid to roam if you try to manipulate the wave like this and you shove it and get a crash back
So thats why shiphtur is gonna drop to diamond
Bro what a BRUTAL wave manipulation strategy
You might want to remove Nunu from the "low threat jungler" category now that he's been reworked.
Finaly how Long did you think to give us this during this meta,
Can you do a video on Aurelion Sol, as his playstyle is vastly different than the one of other mages
The problem is no Zed player misses like this one.
the amount of information i've picked up from this channel....i want to share u to all my friends but i want to be the best among them all xD
This only happens cuz shiphtur lost lane in the moment he throws the first Q, what you have to do vs that type of strategy is this:
1. When the wave comes start autoing the minions and Q the entire wave while is colapsing so you can Q all the minions making your push faster that a ryze level 1.
2. Trade hp for lane pressure, if ryze whats to punish you for that he needs to E and auto you but since you are pushing, your minions will turn on him so he have to back or he will lose more hp then you.
And even if you lose more hp that him is better that getting behing! If you let a ryze push at level 1 vs you he wins the lane like the video shows, so the best way to denie this is doing that steps, cuz ryze doesnt have more push at all stages like the video says. At level 1 is the only time that zed have more push that a ryze, since your Q damage all minions and your auto/passive in minions does much more damage that a ryze so he never push the first wave faster and you never get in your tower getting poked by a ryze level 3 vs level 2.
One flaw in this strategy. Let's say you're right and everything plays out as you say, zed will win the wavecontrol at lvl1, then ryze becomes lvl 2 and starts pushing faster with e e q, Still trading harder than the zed, also zed didn't get to finish any of the minions he tried to quickpush because he was getting harrassed too hard and his q wasn't trading back. Aftermaths of this would be ryze still getting his back @lvl3, zed having to back too while the wave is pushing away from him. Zed comes back jungler is rubbing hands in the bushes knowing he has to overextend into a ryze, you just lost flash. Happy laning.
Can you please make a video for support players? Maybe analyse C9 Smoothies roaming?
12:10 what if nidalee decided to rambo earlier? or what if kindred was not ready for the countergank? nidalee could easily flash combo ryze after he burnt all his spells to finish zed off, and he was also low hp after this. What would be the play if i saw nidalee camping? lvl 3, with 2 buffs? Given that ryze didn't see nidalee camping in that bush, i would really hesitate flashing for that kill, instead i would continue the slow push inside my minions so that her spears don't hit me, and if zed tries to assist, i would burn him and flash away. Am i right skill capped, or am i just missing some nerves?
Oooooo you mean Shiphtur rusty zed? Oooo such a usefull guide
Please make a Darius or Camille guide it'd be really great thank you
so can u explain to me how nid is considered a low threat jungler when she is considered to have the best early ganks in the game ? jw
One side step can foil her entire gank.
I disagree with this Video. The minionwave manipulation was nice, but what zed reallyt made lose this lane is missing every single skillshot on ryze
That was included in the video explanation. In fact, if you listen, they outright say "do not get complacent and start letting skillshots land."
How about when I'm using Zoe at mid lane?
Usually when I play Zoe, the opponent uses a higher solo kills champs for mages.
I did apply this method when playing against higher elo Zed but failed so hard when enemy jungler came to help even though I have visions at top side.
How can I play safe while aggressively poke melee champs without fearing enemy jungler setting up for a gank?
at 6:07, how does He do Q , W , Q , E , Q ? Why did his Q come off cool down after his W? I know that E resets Q cool down.
But what could the Zed have done?
fun fact take comet, scorch, cheap shot, and absolute focus on ryze and start W to rape literally every melee matchup lvl 1
>Plays Kassadin.
>What is Ryze?
And so what do I do when my jungler runs into my lane to feed him?
weird how an LCS superstar is outclassing an NA challenger solo que streamer. Its like Febiven gets to learn from people who are paid to coach League of Legends
I need help, i faced a zed earlier, and all he do is WEQ combo over and over again even i pressured him on lane, i did deny his cs, but i still got solo killed... Tips pls? (Sorry for my bad english)
Zed mains: dont go for minions wait to let enemy push wait for lvl 3 and when the enemy wave is about 3 minions go bait you want to get minions use combo pls electrocut and ignite .... GG
I play A lot of zed. I played against a Jayce mid who used this exact strategy against me. I honestly had no clue what to do, It was very frustrating experience to feel so useless. Being the Zed player, what can you do to mitigate/deal with this strategy?
Yeah, Ryze is hella dangerous like this. Always good to prime flux on people with E or E spread so you can all in with the empowered W so you don't have to E W them in the trade. RIP Chapanya.
Why didn't nidalee barge in mid lane just to force ryze to leave and so zed can farm easier?
Like they said, nidalee ganks aren’t scary while you have a big wave, that would be a waste of time (And XP) from nidalee to come.
I didn't find this video that helpful. I'm aware of punishing melee champions early on, but the problem with Zed is his all in at 6+. Is there a way to manipulate the wave or setting up a gank in a safe way without taking too much risk of dying yourself?
What don't you find helpful? i mean, if you already have a lead early on, you don't have to be afraid of a lvl 6 all in by a zed. You're basically on the driver seat controlling the lane. Continuing this wave manipulation pre-6 can get you a massive lead. Which means you get priority in lane, and create pressure elsewhere on the map. You don't have to stay in lane all the time.
what should zed be doing here to counter ryze wave management? just stay in lane for exp? or try to weq every wave so that he doesnt have too much minion wave disadvantage? or...just chill at lane and wait for his jg?? 😅😅
ISAAC PICHU could attempt to do what insanityxxx, a chall NA mid main does and go tiamat to help with waveclear and gives a bit extra burst to r combo
really nice work
Thank you for supporting us :)
Unless you're Veigar.
Damn, I didn't even know I've been doing this with my lux all the time.
hey there, i m a low elo talon main and i want a general rule about when to shove and when to freeze at 3 first min
Well then I have a question. How do you beat this strategy as a zed or another assassin?
I guess you have to try to shove the wave but this is kina hard