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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ต.ค. 2024
- Is Red Bull using flow through the side pod to generate more downforce than all other cars?
What hints can we find outside?
Which hints can we find underneath the cover?
And why would this be a genius idea?
#F1 #redbull
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So... if they guide (hot) air in this direction, is this than the closest thing to a blown Diffusor we can get with these cars having only one exhaust in the middle? and if yes it simply amazes me that Adrian always finds a way to implement this on his cars 😄
It's not hot air though it's just the air that wold be going through the radiator it's just channelling the air that would be redundant into a high pressure air to create down force at the rear. It's more like the F-Duct than blown defuser.
@@IIIErebusIII The video mentions that placing this duct near the exhaust pipes would heat up the air.
That's why I put the hot in brackets. Like @Aser6000 said, the air passes the engine so I expected it to heat up. Of course not to the same degree as exhaust Gases would but still. But the F-Duct comparison also sounds nice, since Red Bull seems to have a stronger Drs effect to the rest of the field.
@@Aser6000just enough to passively pressurise it. But don’t forget every pre-2022 aero rule was scrapped, the legality boxes make double decker diffusers impossible except for the beam wing that can be close enough to almost be part of the diffuser’s tail. The clever bit is knowing that there’s drag-free downforce to gain there. The RBR is likely full of these marginal gains adding up to one fast car, with no single visible design trick to copy.
@@IIIErebusIIIf-duct was used to lower the drag aka lower the downforce this is used to increase the downforce so completly opposite
Something that F1 TV tech talk pointed out as well is that the ATR restrictions do not apply to the development of cooling solutions inside the sidepods. The only thing RB cannot do unrestricted is load tests. So things like this they can develop as much as they want within the cost cap. That's why I think RB is operating at another level right now. Mercedes had the old regs absolutely nailed but with the cost cap they simply cannot understand the new regs to the same level without a lot of time.
@@pinky6863as Lewis fan I agree, I said this multiple times they become more efficient. In 2012 the redbull was draggy in 2014-2020 they had to learn how to create a fast car that was also efficient. Redbull is now the team with the most efficient aero with the highest downforce levels. Their weakness became their strength.
in other words, they are funnelling wind tunnel time into, unrestricted dev? if so, nice exploit
@@User-dd2xv I bet they have a flexible part inside the pod, that redirects flow at high speed, thus reducing drag. it would not be deemed flexible bodywork if inside the bodywork.
Although it doesn’t count as ATR time, they can’t measure downforce etc just airflow.
@@pinky6863 Nar, more like merc didn't have a ground effect car specialist on their team, just ready for the new "ground effect regs" ......
What an amazing coincidence tho, that RBR did just so happen to have one on their team in the form of Adrian Newey!! .... 🙄
This makes a lot of sense given how other teams are developing. While everyone else is improving their waterslide concepts, RB have visibly been putting lots of effort into their inlet profile likely to optimise this trick
Also cfd on internal ducting in free, not part of the code restrictions.
@@Simon-gk9ugWow, I didn't know that lol!
@@Simon-gk9ug No way there's a loophole like that
@@rkan2 It's free, but you're not allowed to measure any forces (ie downforce), so you might only be able to calculate the velocity of the air going out of the exit.
@@johns.1898this is the kind of loophole that Adrian Newey would find tho. Impressive 🫡
Explains why Perez had no rear grip when he had a gaping hole in his sidepod after contact with HAM. Damn...
Great point
Yep so all Hamilton has to do to cheese another championship is smash into the red bulls every race. Wait thats what he used to do KeK :P
@@nobass_stub1394"Yield or we crash" Remember who said this? Not his fault when Max tries to push him off track
Then what happened to Carlos after contact with Oscar?
When people said Redbull were bringing new side-pods there was speculation that it would be the waterslide side-pods like their rivals, this makes even more sense as to why that wasn't the direction the team went with.
I'm far from an expert , but studies and the end of last year showed that shape of the side pod which was first introduced by Ferrari decreased drag.
And this channel explained in the video increases downforce but doesn't affect drag for the better.
So the idea is very much different
this explains why redbull dont need to use the waterslides. they can further prioritize the cooling of the car, and focus on the outwash by raising the leading edge of the sidepods as much as possible, deal with no losses from the waterslides, and still bring extremely energetic air to the rear. this also helps explain how their single beam wing element can be so useful at medium speed tracks.
It does…
This also explains why Perez lost such a massive amount of time when his side pod was damaged in the Spa sprint race
i love these super tech/nerdy f1 videos. THIS is what makes f1 special. the engineering details
Air bypasses also improve air flow through a heat exchanger too. A sealed ducted heat exchanger is counter intuitively less efficient. So this duct likely is multipurposed, releasing the high pressure circulating air that reduces radiator efficiency, and also feeding air volume to the beam wing.
So an opening at the usually closed end of the radiator increases flow by connecting the high pressure region inside the duct and low pressure region outside the duct while maijtaing a relatively different pressure in both regions
because the hole shifts the extremely high pressure area from the opening of the radiator duct(when it completely closed) to on the radiator( when there is this opening)
I always had this theory with motorcycle airboxes for a long time but never experimented with it. I always bèliveed that an opening in the back of the airbox would increase flow velocity and somewhat lowering the airbox inlet pressure at the opening but increasing the pressure at the velocity stack opening(when the stacks have one long end and one short end)
Please feel free to correct me if I mention any wrong understanding
That’s hilarious, aerodynamics is so counterintuitive sometimes
Because it allows more (and "straighter") air into the duct I assume?
@@hotshtsr20 it all has to do with pressure regions location
@Rayyan-cc4jv what the F has to do with anything?? oh and by the way can you ask them if they know some aerodynamic secrets and tricks... they are all knowing so they should tell!
This is truly amazingly genius! I had wondered how redbull has managed to seemingly be the only team not implementing a “waterslide” sidepod to feed air to the beamwing. It’s truly inspiring to see neweys expertise at work.
Thanks for going into detail on this feature, and I also appreciate it that you prioritized channel members :D
Any time!
It’s an artificial jet propulsion which explains why their DRS is super effective as well. That high pressure of air through that channel is genius!!!
6:04 he mentions that there would be less cooling by guiding the air through the side pods. They’re approaching it with a similar philosophy to the dominant Merc era in that the cars are designed to run in clean air out in front of the pack, so the less efficient cooling is mitigated by clean, cool air.
You can make the rear wing from an old baking tray, then it comes out of the catering budget.
Newbie said they missed a loophole in the specs and smiled this was last your. So maybe what your saying makes sense it's something like this which is missed by the FIA as an area that's not actually supposed to make an aerodynamic difference is covered by pipes so hard to see it sounds very feasible that you're right. Cause it's hidden, hard to see and not something that is obvious but supposed to be more about radiators not aero to the rest of the designers
Great video and you are probably right that they are doing this. Similar to the blown diffuser days. I suspect other teams have tries some variation of this but used ducts instead of heated air.
This could also explain why Checo had such a loss in performance with the damaged side pod.
When checo had the loss of performance I had no doubt, you don’t need to look anywhere else on that car…the performance trick is there. Is it possible to have some sort of air volume control on that beige part? Using the same type of control h like the engine air inlet but reversed? More air on low speed, less on high so the beam would stall thus improving DRS effect
@@ruipedro111 Yeah expecially since he has rear instability after.
I doubt they would have something movable that the FIA knows about as that should make it an movable aerodynamic device which should not be allowed.
@@BNOVA but, if they can somehow kept hidden and using it as cooling device, remember that RB was also one of the firsts to solve the bouncing and they done so, like definitely, Ferrari did it but still have small issues with it, everyone else’s worse even, but RB SOLVED IT, DONE. there has to be some trick, legal or not, I would bet legal.
@@ruipedro111there won’t be anything hidden. Verstappen’s car was inspected at Silverstone and was deemed to be completely legal.
It’s all just clever airflow management, but as another comment pointed out it’s multiple little clever tricks creating a solid package rather than one specific idea to copy. That’s why nobody has caught up despite “copying” them in areas
Well I wouldn't go as far as to say that Checo's loss of pace was specifically due to this trick being ineffective with the hole in the sidepod as Sainz had the same drop of pace with his car when he had a hole the next day. It's just that these wide sidepods are so crucial for keeping the front wheel wake in check and delivering clean air to the back of the car. Guiding the air through the sidepod definitely helps making that airflow more uniform in many different conditions, but I wouldn't say it's the main culprit of losing pace when damaged.
I am happy to have found this channel on TH-cam, after these videos one understands many things, and learns about engineering applied to racing cars
Welcome aboard!
Nice Video :) Thanks for the Details and the insights of the tricks
I don't know if the other teams have figured this out, but it seems like none of the "journalists" or pundits have, despite all their hours of clickbait. Everyone was focused on the floor design, or suspension design, or surfaces, and you appear to be the only one taking a holistic approach and picking up the details. And all the while Mercedes were talking about 'innovation' with their zeropods...
Redbull create a version of the blow diffuser but this time just using this trick to blow the beam wing to create downforce. Very innovative.
Thanks for this info. The latest upgrade of redbull in hungury belgium is there sidepod inlet narrow air duct radiator with this automatically increases the downforce of the car that they say 2secs additional gap which is true.
In a way it is similar to the Ferrari duct concept but it's placement is much more clever and efficient, clearly. This RB has so many details that compound in a spectacular car.
Interesting in the light of “The aerodynamic testing restrictions exempt “windtunnel testing solely for the development of power unit heat exchangers that reject heat to air”, which means you can do work with the internal flow of these ducts.”
I’m positive that Williams had something like this in their 2022 test package and they never deployed it
They did but the placement was completely different
Very interesting video.
I’m at tones very surprised to see how much behind other teams are compared to Redbull. Last year it was the floor construction using cross-lamination principles. I thought it would be a standard, but was shocked to know only Redbull had implemented it later in the season.
Using the sidepod to channel airflow is something I would expect. Unless banned by restrictions. If other teams aren’t doing this already, it points to a sorry state of affairs of the technical teams.
Ferrari are doing it, with a less elegant solution
@@Barcodez5555anything Ferrari does is less elegant
I remembered last year's video. The tone of your voice was this is illegal.
So in summary it is a blown diffuser 2.0. The only thing is that it's passive this time and further enhanced with "Y ducts" like McLaren
And it would also make sense as in the official F1 channel inter coolers don't count towards wind tunnel time but have restriction in measure etc. Smart.
I've always wondered if the meredith effect from WW2 fighter planes could be adapted to F1 cars and this is exactly what it sounds like, even though they got there in a roundabout way. Using the engine heat to both cool the engine and increase the energy in the air passing by hot components with clever ducting.
finally a mind that think alike me... i always thought about P51,spitfire and hurricane radiator and how we can translate those principle to F1
This helps explain why Lewis keeps mentioning how good the rear end of the Red Bull is. And it's obvious too. The Red Bull's traction and rear grip on corner exit as far superior to everyone else.
Makes sense. I would have all kinds of ducts under the bodywork for striaght airflow. Newy and I think alike.
I bet they have a flexible part inside the pod, maybe the rad itself, that redirects flow at high speed, thus reducing drag. it would not be deemed flexible bodywork if inside the bodywork.
if so, nice exploit,
It could also be that they are funneling wind tunnel time into, unrestricted dev? if so, again, nice exploit. RB continue to innovate , I suppose.
Maybe I was born to be an aerodynamicist because that's exactly what I thought all teams or top team are doing .
Passing the air inside the car to flush out hot air n channel it onto rare of care .
That's a no brainer imho
Expecting other teams to try and copy this now, especially next year
I wonder if red bull will try to speed up the air even more with the sidepod opening for cooling or they've already done it, Love the hybrid between F duct/Blown defuser but since this year I was kinda waiting for something like this given the restrictions on everything else, pretty easy way of getting clean air to the back of the car to aid the defuser the only problem is packaging but Merc proved that with the zero sidepod idea.
This sounds very much like the 'Meredith Effect' that was used to great effect on WWII fighter planes.
new style blown diffuser. this is why these guys are my favourite team. always a loophole around these restrictive rules an regs. #NeweyBrains
That is so smart. It means that they need less downforce from the wings which makes them faster on the straights.
Having a duct within the sidepod would also reduce the pressure building up in front of the rad that fills up the fairing overflowing back out of the front of the inlet and ruining the flow around the outside of the sidepod. This overflow is known to be a problem in higher speed corners as it dirties up the air into the coke bottle reducing rear downforce.
RB have been excellent in high speed corners, so I'm even more convinced by this video.
I had this idea last year, and was convinced that Ferrari is doing the same thing.
Thought the same too
This Explains quite a lot, It might be the reason Perez got Huge Performance loss when he got hit by Hamilton in the Belgian GP Sprint Race
I don’t think the hole in the side damaged that system. But a hole in the side disturbs the side flow a lot, which costs lots of downforce.
Is it analogous to the exaust blown diffusers they were masters of, in the Vettel era? 🤔 A. Neway is a master of refreshing old tricks in a stealth way. (New way should I say 😜)
Im not sure about the physics but I suspect that they might be pushing the air out the back to decrease downforce but only when the DRS activates I suspect they have a flap that open when the DRS open to stall the downforce to the rear, bypassing the radiator, as its only open for a few seconds it will not overheat the engine, if might be why their DRS is so much better than the competition.
Having a flap would be illegal, and they don’t need a flap, as they have their elements flow well connected.
So is this the 2.0 version of the blown diffuser .. Only now we call it the Radiator Duct Blown B Wing ... ?
Sergio needs to reveal to us the scheme of this air duct in the next race
Yes please
isn't it similar to the ferrari sidepod duct from this year ? Thanks for the video
You are very right indeed!!
I also suspected that Red-Bull are actually using in this way the sidepod as a wing!
The hot hair can be delivered to the low pressure area of the defuser to increase the defuser efficiency, as well.
This really shows the genius ming of Neway.
Where is newey since 2014?
Thanks, very interesting observation. I suspect that RB is doing something “innovative” with its hidden stays which connect the chassis or engine bay to the floor- perhaps compensating for the lack of hydraulic suspension under the new regulations? It would explain how they can run their car so low..
This is a new version of the Blown Diffuser we had back in '11...
Interesting take. Thanks
Very interesting, thank you. There's been quite a lot of discussion around what these outlets are really for on the various tech forums. Nice to finally know!
@Rayyan-cc4jv the only god I worship is called Adrian newey
Nice video. So are we a little closed to solving the puzzle of how they stall the diffusor during DRS? Does this constant flow have something to do with the cascade? Does it „pollute“ or stall the diffusor when it‘s not being pulled up by the rear wing?
Forget the idea of the diffuser stall and triple DRS. It's all bullshit and it doesn't work. If you designed the diffuser-beamwing-rearwing unit that close to a stall, it would stall in transition states. Red Bull's DRS advantage (which is now not that great anyway) comes simply because Red Bull generates most of its downforce on the rear wing with the upper element. Is that gone with DRS. You can even see this if you compare the rear wings.
This must have been incredibly hard to package, hats off to RBR
Yeah packaging in and around engine just be terrifying
I would add development of, let's call it cooling flow, is not restricted by testing quota
This makes it sound like newer made a new blown diffuser
Would it be possible to design an inlet for such a duct in a way that it captures more air at yaw? This would counteract the DF loss at the rear during cornering without increasing the load on the straights.
@Rayyan-cc4jv If that was the case, how do explain Adrian Newey?
this is genious, very good work in this video!
So Red Bull manages to run air through the cooling system and then unused high-energy air still escapes from one outlet? How is that supposed to work? You would need a separate duct, bypassing the cololing system, but there is none. But anyway - even if High Energy Air is routed out from somewhere, the effect would only be marginal. Actually its much more likely and makes more sense that this outlet is actually related to cooling.
No, this air wouldn’t go through the radiators but bypass them. Otherwise it wouldn’t work.
love this video! i noticed this opening at the azerbaijan gp but i couldn't figure out what could sit behind it
Wonderfully explained as always
Thanks!
Freaking amazing, love your content. But also ferrari design seems more refined but why they are loosing speed and tire degradation looks worse?
we are checking and we will come back to you
@Rayyan-cc4jv no thanks i dont want anything from Allah, i have my own god's and there is unfinished business.
I don't want teachings from quran as it doesn't sit well with my philosophy and way of life. I will never see Sharia as a wise human thing to do as it takes me back to dark ages.
Redbull using the meredict effect
Thank you for this.
I am sure that this is one of many tricks that all teams try to employ and Newey is the master of trickery to the point that the whole thing has a bad taste.
What bothers me is why the governing body is quick to ban some tricks while allowing others.
Also, I think that a lot of Red Bull's tricks are aimed at bypassing the new regulations that intended to reduce the amount of dirty air behind a car.
Now, imagine a situation where the Verstappen kid is starting behind Perez on the grid and needs to pass him at some point. What's the solution? Perhaps just plug some air outlet on Perez's car? An outlet that can barely be seen? Then suddenly the bad boy blows dust in Perez's eyes and speeds to the horizon? Other ways to sabotage Perez's car?
BTW, I am not a fan of Perez. I just don't like Red Bull.
it sure seem like they are using this flow and we have seen this used before when the exhaust was used to expel gas onto the B wing the same as we are seeing here, which they did back when sebastian was in the car... so a repurpose of the same design essentially here, just a different flow input / flow generator...
Is it possible they can stall the beam wing with that feature? Maybe by cutting the airflow through the hole when DRS is active?
Great video! Is this perhaps similar to the Ferrari sidepod duct from the start of the season? I remembered some teams asking if such a solution was legal
The Ferrari outlet is there to bleed losses. But l‘m still thinking their inlet is a big too big for that.
When RB was given a wind-tunnel penalty reduction..Newey said in a quick interview at the BBC..'the wind tunnel time & computer simulations are mostly there to confirm what we already knew'..!!..ouch.!!!!.it reminds me of him showing also ,years ago how he would work aero on an RC model car body ,using an hair- dryer & small paper clip to hold cigarette rolling paper cuts to observe how the air would flow around the model car..!!!..genious..!!
Meanwhile horner called the penalty draconian
@@andrewmelton2686 well..someone at Red Bull had to complain & show some concern..!!..but considering their results for the past races ,I doubt they lost sleep over this 'penalty'...a fart in the wind....
As an italien, i think we should send this to Ferrari ❤️🙏
So this is why Mercedes keep crashing into Red Bull sidepods.
Could it be inspired in 22 williams sidepod hole? (they abandoned that concept)
Using the inlet air for something else yes, but their hole was to increase outwash. Red Bull‘s concept seems to blow on the beam wing.
So this is why they don't require the waterslides?
Possible. The opening is in the same location where the other‘s waterslides end.
Would this explain why Checo complained about rear grip when Hamilton put a hole in his sidepod?
Or is that expected with or without this "trick"?
Great video, Martin!
About your udemy course; if I were to purchase it, how could I get access to the CAD software used in this course? I'd like to purchase the course but I have no access to Catia (in fact, never used it before).
Thank you in advance!
Thanks! So you could get a Catia Student licence or even follow the course with other design programmes. It’s about learning the process of designing complex aero parts and less about Catia specifically.
@@BSport320Great, thank you! I was just worried whether a student version is fine for the course, I was unsure about the limitations of this specific CAD software. I will go ahead and purchase the course shortly, excited!
Great analysis!!
Man that got me thinking. Yeah why not, brilliant theory.
So this is why they don't have waterslides, also explain why Mercedes haven't gone down this avenue as they're likely going to copy this concept for the W15
I wonder if it can be opened and closed like the old Fduct
is this something illegal, or are they even allowed to have guided (clean) air through the car/sidepod?
If this why they have such sn advantage then i hope all the other teams have watched this video we need some true competition you have to give RB kudos for doing what they are doing but come on all the rest pull your finger out snd get on level terms so we have more battles at the front
as far as I know it's ilegal in F1 to internaly canalize air only for aerodynamic porpouyses, all the entry air must be for refrigaration and must go through radiators and conduits.
So that's why Sergio lost so much performance after his sidepod got cracked open.
This bypass would be buried underneath the cooling system, which wasn’t damaged at this crash.
He just lost lots of downforce because of that hole which disturbs the undercut flow around the sidepod.
🙌🙌👏👏👑👑 much greatful thank you 👍👍
Welcome 😊
Hmmm using hot, high pressure air from the engine to power the rear of the car... FIA might be bringing in some changes as to where you can place and you can aim that outlet 😉👍
According to the video, the air isn't coming from the engine though, it's just air scooped up, channeled through the sidepods, onto the beam-wing.
@@spiedvriek8948 Well not sure on that, I was thinking, to give the performance gains RBR are getting. That the air is interacting with the engine some how. Maybe super heating it, they could be using the air to bleed heat from the engine and at the same time send it to the rear of the car.
I think you are correct.
Maybe this is why when they get a bit of sidepod damage they performance drops so much?
I don’t think so. A large whole in the sidepod hurts every team.
@@BSport320 when max had a tiny crack in Baku he was awful.
Is this why this so called “triple DRS” system works so well?
If so then probs to them.
Might be there, just not using a ground effect, body
What makes air 'high energy' and what decreases this energy to 'low energy'? How does this differ from clean vs dirty air?
Unobstructed air with no disturbance or boundary layer offers „high energy“.
Air that e.g. separates off the front wheels or leaves the radiators is disturbed and is „low energy“
In physical terms it’s about the total pressure.
@@BSport320 does routing air through ducts (e.g. through the sidepod) reduce the energy? Given there would be pressure change through narrowing, redirecting, boundary layer etc.
Remind me of the radiator of P-51 Mustang
Ein kleiner, feiner Kanal. Es werden Details endeckt, die die großen Kanäle nicht zur Kenntnis nehmen
Danke!
All I know is that Newey is a smart SOB
Could they theoretically close off this "gap" during DRS periods? Decreasing drag.
Interesting thought, we don’t know yet.
I think it will be a penalty? cause if that's true then they're technically using an active aero.
Why are more people not talking about this?
Now where is the on/off actuator
Interesting thought.
That outlet is too small to do a "main role"... perhaps is just to help "sucking" air for PU cooling...
There isn't "high pressures" inside cooling ducts... after the intake... pressure just keep dropping along the duct... even if it has fans, a "high pressure" point would mean "low efficiency"...
Everyone have been copying RB's upper body and results are marginal... The "tricks" of RB are under the floor and in the suspensions...
Because of the expansion in the radiator duct and the resistance of the radiator nets, pressure is increasing, especially at the lower end of the duct, which in Red Bull‘s case is on a pretty straight flow path from the inlet. So there is a lot of energy down there.
@@BSport320 That's not so linear like that... density also changes due to pressure and temperature changes...
and heat exchangers have a huge DeltaP...
Along the duct the energy of the flow is always decreasing due to losses by viscosity effects and entropy increase... so... Total pressure is always decreasing...
I only have a doubt... it is if they have fans in those ducts... if not... what I am saying is the true...
RB19 + max verstappen= god of speed 🔥🔥🔥
is that a cosworth dfv as your title?
This is it, this is the golden carrot
Would this system have a speed sensitivity, e.g higher pressure and more flow bleeds at high speeds?
Also do you think the long flat lower lip of the inlet has anything to do with keeping this lower through flow cleaner?
Lower car speed would also result in less flow from this opening.
The higher inlet lip is to increase undercut flow around the sidepod.
@@BSport320 very cool, teams are always looking for ways to passively change downforce across a lap
Cheers for the analysis :)
High bypass cooling air ducts 😂. Next make them egg shell shape at the exhaust, too.
Every aero engineer currently on the field except for Newey should go back to kindergarten to train their imagination. 😅
Love the insight, doesn't it increase drag?
I guess it does but the downforce gain would outweigh that
meanwhile, teams were opening all sorts of louvers in their sidepods to bleed air from the radiators
Yes but in different locations and for different reasons
Interesting ...