PSA regarding AoC/Indirect Fire, cos there's only so many times I'm gonna answer the same comment 😅 AoC is not in the Codex Ignoring Indirect Fire penalties is not in the Codex The Codex shouldn't be used in Organised Play until the standard Codex is out, which won't be until after the New Year (both of these statements come straight from GW on WarCom) As such, at a tournament at least, though you can infer in all games, you should be using the 8th Ed Codex, which is what the Slate is for, until the Codex comes out on general sale. In friendly games, or with TO permission, use the new Codex, and have a blast! But using the Dataslate will be, imo, a patently unfair and unnecessary buff you're giving to yourself, for an army that doesn't need it. Yes, CSM got AoC, but their Codex dropped as a Standard, available to everyone at the same time Codex, so the Slate didn't need to be changed. The current Slate isn't going to be updated for around 3 months, which will likely coincide with the Guard release, and I can all but guarantee AoC and the Indirect Fire rules won't be staying, as if they were, they'd be in the Codex (again, this was directly stated by GW on a WarCom article, that "certain" elements had been rolled into the Codex) Put another way, if you want AoC and the Indirect Fire rules available from the Slate, logic dictates you'd also still use Hammer of the Emperor, which is now Born Soldiers. So having Hammer means you'd never need Born Soldiers, and so could have 2 other Doctrines- you know that's absolutely not the case 😅 If your opponent agrees, fine, but looking at their new rules you really don't need AoC nor the Indirect boost, so getting a bigger advantage would be handicapping your foe unfairly, doing your generalship a disservice as you'd be playing with unnecessary extra rules, and are setting yourself up for disappointment when they inevitably get removed. We'll continue to play them without the Slate, and if they stay, I'll eat my hat 😅
I feel like indirect fire was kinda fitting for Guard but yeah everything else needs to go. Now that you can give invul to tanks there's no need for AoC.
On the other hand, the parts that were rolled into the codex were the ones that were in the original dataslate. The indirect fire nerf and Armor of Contempt came along after this was already in the printing cycle. We shall see.
Yeah it’s weird, almost all of AOC and indirect fire penalties also came from balance data slates. Just have to wait for another balance data slate to clear the muddy water of power creep.
If indirect fire gets penalized then it will kill all the guard indirect, because it's not just the to hit that is a problem but also the extra armor. And if AoC goes away then all the non battle tanks are dead on arrival and useless no point in running a hellhound or valkyrie if it is guaranteed to just die. Because there is still so much ap out there
Militarum Tempestus really got the short end of the command rod this time round. No orders after deepstrike, only 1 order, The tempestor command squad is 20 points more than the normal and no option to bring a tempestor prime on his own, limited special weapons, No regiments, No Hammer of the Emperor. How are literal child soldiers raised in the most prestigious war colleges of the imperium not 'Born Soldiers'? I dont want to say GW is up to foul play but the Kaskrin models did just get a refresh and they get everything that Tempestus scions dont. I would not be surprised to see a white dwarf update in a 6 months time with a 'Tempestus drop force' army of renown that changes this.
The 8th edition codex for the glorious Imperial Guard was released October 2017. Five years and nearly two whole editions later and we finally got a new codex. Hell, it's about time...
I would argue that the infantry buffs, even with the command squad being like it is, are not overly game breaking or unreasonable. Guardsmen die by the squad every turn, and you need to keep them in groups, in range, to give them orders. Once three squads of guardsmen get wiped in the first turn, that AP-1 lasgun shot isn’t nearly as… powerful as some people might fear. I feel that this book PERFECTLY reflects the weight of the militarum- overwhelming in large numbers, but only in large numbers.
I feel the same way about this codex as I do about 9th in general. Really glad it's getting more options, updates, and less disparity between bottom and top tiers. However, also groaning at all the new things to keep track and annoyed at more things that'll wipe you off the table all that bit faster. Things do too much damage nowadays
I really think they need to follow the AoS example. The new AoS books have been simplifying everything. Removing overly complicated rules but keeping the fluffy gameplay rules. Also, removing feel bad abilities and giving uplifts to week faction but not strong ones.
I think Chef is overblowing lasguns. While hitting on 3+ and AP -1 universally is great, they wound targets on 5+ for the most part, elves, cultists, and tau firewarriors not withstanding. The take aim buff is also good for buffing special weapons, but not everybody is going to take, the obviously-statted-to-be-the-best-option, cadians. Furthuermore, Hammer of the Emperor was only so effective with squads and hordes of lasguns was because it sidestepped that very wound roll. While marines do get 2+ saves in cover against anything with less than AP -2, having to make ten of those saves and would still end up with a whopping 1 dead marine or so. Adding the AP -1 to lasguns doesn't affect drukhari with their invulns, demons with their demon saves, or marines with AoC. From my experience, Hammer of the Emperor was an enormous prop for the guard that kept them playable. It was a boon to tanks, but it kept the infantry from essentially being wound protection for whatever special or heavy weapons you have in the squad. The tanks are better, but the leman russ also had to be worked on with how clunky it was in 8th, limping around or having minimally effective fire when you the unfortunate occurrence of rolling three 1s for damage rolls. Maxing the damage roll perpetually is the other end of that, but the model has been generally buffed, in anticipation of losing AoC for guard I suspect. The orders are fantastic across the board with them fulfilling numerous roles from utility, mobility, and buffing unit capabilities, but the orders are also dramatically more restricted when compared to how many order sources are available in the 8th edition codex. I think guard commanders will have to relearn the army, as the organization, statlines, strats, and orders have all changed in a lot of places. Then, they will have to test and adapt to find what mix of doctrines and army comp. works with their play style and in the game. Based on this video, and theory-crafting with other guard players on info from the leaks, I think the book will be good, but it will not be broken outside of particular extreme synergies that may exist in it and have yet to be fully unveiled. Personally, I don't like that you essentially have a platoon commander and his command squad, an army or subsector commander with the castellan options, and the Lord Solar of the segmentum as your officer tiers to field. I think it's weird to be fielding the commander of a sub sector or segmentum alongside a platoon or two of infantry. It removes a significant amount of regimental structure from the guard and replaces it with high-level staff officers that are randomly on the front line.
I'm absolutely convinced that we will lose armor of contempt but RETAIN the indirect fire exemption-- there is no reason to expect that the indirect fire exemption would be in the codex, because it is a reference to a rule which itself only exists in the balance data sheet.
I really wonder why GW is missing out on adding Rogue Traders or Inquisition as subfactions, since it would make total sense with the upcoming games: Darktide and Rogue Trader. Would be a good cross promotion and might get some more people into the hobby.
Bringing the Guard up to the level of the 9th edition isn't codex creep. Sounds like Chef's opinion is that with a bit of points tweeking, they're about right.
@@omegonchris but they’ve progressively got more powerful as they’ve gone on so to be level it had to creep up compared to early 9th codexes. Also they’ve have some overpowered crap in there, which they either don’t play test (bad) or deliberately leave it to make hype and sales (bad). No doubt will be ‘balanced’ later (also bad)
@@00pugsly48 Too much where, its literally the same codex with inf going up 5 points. Sure lord solar is good point value and rough riders might be abit on the cheap side but they are losing over half the battle reports so far. Id like to know what you think guard deserve after being a dumpster army for 4 and a half years if they cant even have a good codex without it being called broken.
Never played with Yarrick but I do miss him! Also, very happy with the initial impression of the guard codex, as you say the data sheets are mostly fine (looking at catachans, Deathstrike and mortal wound strategem mainly) as they are and can easily be balanced through point tweaks. I also understand the difficulty of predicting a meta and balance of the game some 6-8 months ahead of a codex release and sometimes they will do quite nicely balanced, like GSC and chaos knights, and sometimes it's gonna be harlequins and tau. And I get wanting to err on the more powerful side of the scales rather than underpowered through arguments like selling but also as a player I want a glow up, not like a sidegrade of the same shit, and it's okay if the glow up gets toned downed once it's dropped. IMO GW should have a standard of releasing a mini FAQ/balance slates for codex release within 3-6 weeks after it's dropped where they are also allowed to tweak points. That way a broken codex from broken point coat isn't gonna remain there for five months just because it was released just after a season point update. In this re-tweak I would expect very little to change, if anything, for most releases but if there would appear another harlequin we would know a tweak is coming shortly.
Thanks for this breakdown! Was listening whilst building my Genestealer cultists and wondering how Brood Brothers will work now? But anyway, about a third of the way through my mind was already reeling with the order/strat combo possibilities for IG now. They really remind me of the bad times of Ad Mech from earlier this year. It is so hard to balance that many rules and buffs.
In regards to the crisis suits, can deny the turn 1 deepstrikes with that orbital interference strat. Gives your big guns time to do atleast some work or push out and thus push the suits back as well as maybe take out the stealth suits. Stuff like daemons and drop pods would also be hurt pretty badly by that
I have to say I like the generic approach. You can put anything on the table and give them cool rules as to how you want to play. Vs. the old way of the model drives the rules. However with the thin model range a little less cool? but you still have Cadian, Kasrkin, chatachan, death Korps Krieg, and scions. so a pretty good range?
Agreed, you can use whatever and not be constrained by classic models having meh rules. It's also super fluffy, as that's how the Guard have always worked in fluff, mixed regiments
Coming back to his video, I found it absolutely hilarious at 24:30. Not only is that what I did every time with my Guard army, my warlord Company commander for my custom Guard regiment is Colonel Jericho Hoode. I'm 99.999999% sure I'm not the one being referenced but it was quite the thing feeling like I was being called out by Chef XD
As someone with a Scions army, I want to play a game or with the new rules before I start thinking that everything is ruined forever. I had heard that Scions could drop from Valks 6" away from enemies, but since you didn't mention it in the flyer or scion section, I guess that's not actually true.
With the added range to HSLG needing to drop closer to the opponents model isn't really an issue, also at 6" you are still out of meltarange which was the dealbreaker for taking Gorgonnes with their 5" deepstrike strat, not that it would have mattered if they kept it since Scions can only have a maximum of two meltas in a squad now.
Im just a little apprehensive about the fact they seem to be able to do anything? Ignore cover, +1 to hit and ws, ignore invuln, extra Ap, counter deepstrike, ignores fnp…. Most armies can do like 2 of those? Lots of extra stuff tagged on where it’s like, yes it does that thing yours does, and it also gives another bonus.
I'm a Scion player, tried guard but wanted that little bit more out of my troopers. I really hope they don't go to the way side but take on a side army with a bit more. If I was a designer at GW this is how I would change the line. Does not have to be to crazy. HQ tempester Elites would be a stealth sniper team. (Ghost) StarCraft, the command squads now Troops Scions or breacher squads (The naval units that just came out) Fast attack would be duel pistols jetpack units (Reapers) Starcraft. Heavy support would be Vendetta gunships Would be focusing more on rapid insertion. Transports Primes, Valkyries, small skimmer aircraft that could hold 6 men, Some kind of ODST drop pod that could change the special weapons on the fly for CP. All in all the army would have 11 different unit options. Love my toy soldiers and hope they stick around with some love from GW
This is the only way I will take discussion of the new Astra Militarum seriously with munitorum regulation mustaches. On demand checking in, that wall of death with momma bear is nice 👌. I am glad for us getting a codex finally, but it does kind of suck to only have it at the end of the line. Such is the guardsmen fate, afterthoughts, while being the core of the imperium.
Happy that the knight codex released in a balanced state, really wondering what the codex would’ve been with Questoris knights with 2+ saves and dominus knights with T9.
Sad to lose so many unique datasheets like special weapons and veterans but overall excited for this codex. I expect we'll keep the indirect fire rules in any balance update as hitting on 5's with artillery otherwise will be a complete waste of time, you'd just use battle tanks.
I love how much you hate that the deathstrike missile type can be chosen after seeing opponents army, but it doesn't seem to bother you at all that rough riders don't have ro pick a spear type at unit selection, they just somehow change the tip on the charge whilst riding horses hands free
My friend got an early copy, I asked him what he thought of it. His words were almost exactly the same as yours. "Exactly how did Cadia fall? These guys are bonkers." 😂
Regarding that lasgun being better than a bolter rule. It's not the lasgun it's the meatbag holding it. You have the steady, stern and, somehow comforting voice of your commander firing through your helmet vox saying, "Okay, this is it. Remember your training. You're back on the range. Relax and make them pay for every meter." Suddenly, your nerves calm down and the screaming tide of tyranids rolling toward you doesn't seem so frightening. You remember the diagram the sergeant showed you that week pointing out the spots to instant kill the various bugs. With a grim smirk you take aim and fire with devastating accuracy, along with every man on the line.
@@thepastrychef8014 Except that's actually the logic behind it. Orders = better performance for the soldiers. Armor piercing in this game makes no sense and is litteraly just a gameplay mechanic. They get guidance so they shoot better, know what to do and actually wound stuff.
@@hmad898 Then buff bolters. Don't make guardsmen shooting more garbage than it already is just because bolters set a (low) standard yet are more powerful in the lore. They already need to use an order to do that and it could be spent on something else. Perhaps remove the splashing order thing, that's excessively powerful. Not take aim itself.
@@drizzziit1 I was just saying man, I dont think space marines need any more buffs. I just think it's a little silly to think about. The 400 year old astartes veteran with many cybernetic and genetic enhancements with a 75 caliber rpg gun shoots about as good as a human with a flashlight after his commanding officer told him to shoot real good.
I really like the new Guard. They still take loads of casualties so you won't be fielding the "Death Stars" of Chaos, Blood Angels, etc., and if you keep your gun line in bounce range they're much more vulnerable to melee. Also, AP -1 lasguns in the AoC meta currently is basically AP 0. Bascially, I see them as a halfway house between Orks and Tau - the MAJORITY of your turn will be in the shooting phase, but they CAN do stuff in other phases. Something else to consider is that since their Artillery have lost the 1-3 per slot, you won't have to deal with the "Parking Lot" that you have to deal with now of "Here's 3 Basilisks AND a Manticore AND a Mortar pit and they're going to be out of sight ALL GAME". They've gotten a lot more vulnerable, so yea they've gotten some shooting buffs. But after turn 1 when they're taking casualties left and right I think you'll find they're pretty balanced.
The fact an AP1 Lasgun exists is my problem. Not everyone uses Marines, and it's hardly an AoC Meta with Nids, Tau, Crons and Quins about 😅 And yes they die in droves, if they're infantry at least, but they're so cheap you can get so much on the board (see the game), making them very flexible As for the Artillery thing, I will not miss 6+ Basilisks I can't interact with all game 😅
@@thepastrychef8014 Sure, but all the armies you mentioned have either significant fast-moving melee threats or outshoot Guard even with the AP-1 buff. Guard need the shooting buff for the sheer fact that every army out there has HARD counters to Guard shooting. Gargoyles/Raveners/Hormagaunts, Destroyers, Suits, and the entire Harlequin army wreck multiple squads of Guard when they close in, which they can do QUICKLY. So Guard do need a little shooting omph to take out at least SOME of them before dying by the tray-full. Maybe this makes those armies actually play more tactically than the current strategy I always see of "Shove my army down their throat as fast as possible because I NEED to tag their parking lot."
really disapointed that heavy weapon squads are still 1 squad per heavy slot. Feels like theres gonna be alot of teams shelved as people move to the more optimized cadian dataslate and not enough heavy slots to realistically use those teams
Hey guys! Great video! Recently started the hobby properly and have finally started my first army, I’ve gone with Astra Militarum however focussing on the Death Korps of Krieg does the new codex support my army well and do you have any tips for someone who’s new to Warhammer 40k and for my chosen army/faction?
To be honest, this video had me so excited for the changes and then I watched the game against the tau. The guard did so poorly and were crushed so easily that it’s really discouraged me from even bothering to get the codex.
Gonna be hard to unlearn my bad habits from last edition. This is gonna change the flavor of my collection but not for the worst. Fun times ahead! Thanks for the video gentlemen great work
@@thepastrychef8014 oh you wherent joking. Looking at a general mixed armed army (tanks and gaurdsmen) seems reasonable. But add in some arty and stack the bonuses then it becomes horrific. Vox casters paired with bombardiers (+1 to hit), tank orders for reroll 1s and bonus to blast. Now earthshakers ignoring line of sight are real scary 😨
I think I speak for most of us; If we had this codex from the beginning of 9th, we had won most of our games we lost. Had multple people come up to me at my last few tournaments and say something along the lines of "Youre playing guard? I am so sorry", before tabling me in 2 turns with their fancy new codexes. If someone cries about balance, just show them the winrate of guard all of 9th. All i wanted was an even playing field. I quit because of it, but for the guardsman who stuck it out the entire time, get em boys. Hell, it's about time.
I'm pretty excited about the Rogal Dorn and using Krieg as a troops, they fit the lore of my Guard regiment much better. It's weird having regiments mixed at the tactical level, since they tend to support each other but not integrate unless ordered to for being understrength. I plan to stick with Krieg models though, as well as Tempestus units since they actually do integrate with other regiments being part of the Officio Prefectus.
I started 9th with 500 points of guard and it's grown but I hate the fact that I had to wait so long for this codex but I'm ready with 2000 points of guard
I'm glad for the guard players getting some fun back into their army after what felt like an endless thirst patch since their last book. On the other hand, I remember guard leafblower lists from the 5th(?) or 6th edition and they were horrible. Granted, you're not getting alpha-struck by 3 Valkyries nowadays, but as with Tau and now Votann, an army that deals damage mostly from range is very hard to balance. Point the units for what they can actually achieve with all buffs considered, and there is less sales because of a missing wow factor. Don't do it and the book immediately takes its place next to the top factions in raw power. It now finally hurts when you're getting hit by a demolisher cannon, and that is good. Why there is another ignore-invul-weapon in the book is beyond me, however. GW might as well call them "situational saves". I concur that lasguns should be underwhelming, but there should be lots of them. So I'd rather see more shots than AP-1 and what not, while the laughing stock of 40k (the holy bolter) just cries in a corner. Also, the order systems seems to be a bit out of hand. So yeah, fixing orders and points with the FAQ/Balance Data Slate and Munitorum Field Manual and the codex is on its way of being a lot more fun to play against - which I'm not quite certain it is now. PS: Rough riders and Kasrkin have more attacks than space marines! Something is going horribly wrong! :D
with the changes to the codex and the way the orders work , how as a death korps player would i get the regemental orders to my death korps troopers? as i dont see them having the ability to carry a vox caster.so i would need a command squad and then keep them in the 6 insh range ? or am i missing someting
The books looks pretty solid (and after 5 years, it’s a welcome change)! I will say though, most of Chef’s complaints come down to GW’s lazy rules writing by making all upgrades free. If you had to pay points points for the guns I really don’t think it would be a problem. I want to play a game with points, not power level…
Dont understand why armor of contempt works for Chaos's Space Marine and not for Guard anymore ? The dataslate works for all codex, the old and the news. Or i missed something.
Winners: - Cadian Shock Troops: Just the best value troop unit we have now. - Kasrkin - Rough Riders - Sentinels - Leman Russ Tanks: Mainly Executioner and Vanquisher. - Hydra: Turret weapon, so 8 AP-2 autocannon shots hitting on 3+. This thing is just a better Castigator for far cheaper. Shreds aircraft with +2 to hit and double shots against them. I expected many of these to be nerfed. Potential Winners: - DKOK Death Riders: Even if it’s just keyword changes. New melee order lets them hit on 3+ which is massive, can get far better traits than the old DKOK one, and Commissar orders. Not as damaging as Rough Riders of course but far more durable. As I said though, highly depends on the keyword changes. Losers: - Catachans: Just sad, overcosted and incredibly restrictive options. By far the worst rule of the named regiment unique units. - DKOK Guardsmen: Mini-transhuman on a T3 model is incredibly situational, most anti-infantry weapons shooting at you will be S4 and S5. Can’t take a vox if you have a plasma gun. I don’t think they’re terrible, but probably 5 points overcosted which really starts to add up for Guard. - Pure Scions: I stress pure here, as Scions will still have a place as objective grabbers for regular Guard, but getting no regiment traits when taking them pure is rough. Especially when their datasheets are so limited. All their "buffs" are essentially rolled into Kasrkins, the only things they really have over them is built in deepstrike and synergy with the scion WLT's. You also can't receive orders after deep strike. - Regimental Preacher: Just far more limiting than the 8th edition one and worse than the current Sister one. - Ratlings: Still just not a great unit. Now that the Scout Sentinel has forward deploy there's no use for them. - FOB: Just too expensive for what you get. The lascannons are good and currently the only option really worth taking, but for a few points more you can just take a Russ with similar firepower and far better durability. The anti-infantry missiles should have been indirect. - HWS: Got more expensive, no durability increases so no reason to take anything other than mortars still and one squad still takes up a whole HS slot. - Taurox Prime: Could have really benefitted from turret weapon. It's the only heavy firepower Scions get. Taurox battle cannon is still terrible, Taurox gatling cannon got nerfed, Taurox missile launcher suffers from being purely a missile launcher. No 5++ really hurts them. Potential Losers: - Everything with indirect fire. Really depends if Guard lose the nLoS exemption. - Tech-priest: If guard keep AoC then there's really no point to bring one. 5++ means nothing if you have 2+ and AoC. Everything else is okay.
Scion command squads have command squad keyword yes? If I add an attaché to that command squad like an astropath or an officer of the fleet, so they lose deepstrike? For the pure scions detachment can I still take advisers and auxila? If I add in a vulture gunship do they no longer count as troops? Does the tempestor prime go in the command squad like the company commander or are they still lone models?
Wait ... can orbital interference make it so you lose your reserves if they're not deployed? So if they interfere in both round 2 and 3 (expensive yes but could be worth) or I don't put my reserves down T2 and they do it turn 3 ... do I lose my unit?
I'm meant to be playing a game against the new guard early in December with my Goff Orks. And honestly, after seeing this, I'm mildly terrified! Please advise! 🤣
I think people are putting too much weight in the rough riders being broken strong. They CAN punch above their weight but your opponent will have to play around them being able to charge a good unit or catching them out for a counter punch. They are very much a glass cannon, in my eyes they are nowhere near as crazy as some of the dedicated melee options space marines can put forward that do absurd amount of damage while maintaining resilience
Only if you're hiding them behind LoS. So like every other Indirect Fire ability, that's the trade off to being effectively invulnerable to shooting. Perish the though there's a choice to make on the battlefield 😅 Good thing they have easy ways of getting rerolls and bonuses to Hit though
@@thepastrychef8014 with the new guard codex it wouldn't surprise me if that indirect fire rule might disappear from the dataslate. The vast majority of other units with indirect fire are bs 3+ or even 2+, or otherwise have ways of auto hitting on some set value. It can be tough to hit much on 5s and the +1 armour save basically negates most of the ap improvements for the guard artillery, like marines in cover out of LoS will still get a 3+ save even at AP -3
I'm excited that my codex is strong, I just hope it doesn't drive players away from me, cuz what's the good of a new codex if no one wants to play against my army?
Thanks for the review, great work as always. Old guard rules felt like a buffétable in a 400 year old mansion, 9th edition guard rules feel more like a bowl of gruel served in a soulless corporate office. I don't care about the codex being good for competitve play, that is just a mirage anyway as GW can turn a good codex into trash-tier whenever they want with slates/FAQ/errata. I just cared that Guard was diverse, flavourful and felt "guardy", 9th edition guard feels the opposite, lazy, soulless and streamlined. I guess 10th edition isn't far off at least.
As someone who played his AM army for the last time in 7th, I was confused and wondering where the points for the special weapons are in the new codex. Then someone told me they are for free now and I was just "wtf?"
As a guard player I would rather have less powerful units at a lesser point cost. I like to field tons of weak troops. That is what the humans should be in 40k. :-) From your input I think the main OP issue might be the bouncing orders. Other than that we have to wait and see what results that come in from the GTs and RTTs. I hate to see the infantry squad fixed point costs risk to go up even further - making my army even smaller on the table. If too strong I’d rather have some rules reined in rather than point increases. Unfortunately it’s easier for GW to bump some point costs up.
I think without bouncing Orders, the points feel about right imo, maybe a little to cheap still, but I think that's par for the course with every new Codex for the most part 😅 Bouncing just makes them so much more powerful than their base cost, so it either needs to go, or the Order giving units need to come up heftily in cost
Personally i HATE that scions do not get any doctrines... stormtroppers is ok, but lets be honest i reckon 80-90% of us scion players would trade that for 2 of the other doctrines... all our flavour got taken away :(
Not the biggest fan of either of the new horse kits, though lord horsey can be improved a lot by ditching the GW colour scheme and going for something darker (wish he came with a head swap though). The rough riders....ouch. It may just be me, but I bloody hate the blanket thing, and will without a doubt be looking for alternatives.
Chef... Please look up how Kasrkin is pronounced by the Kasrkin Sargent in dawn of war. No idea if it is correct... But it is the way! Really enjoyed the video!
Given the rumours circulating about a 10th ed reboot, I'm already frustrated that if I buy this codex it will only be valid for 6 months. (I have a big Guard collection so I'll be waiting for the book to release on its own)
People who read the April content validity update know. ;) The 9th edition supplements expire at the latest in June, 2023, which means new edition probably July.
Great video guys. +1 for the staches. I really think the design of the codex is much better. The doctrine changes are so much better as I disliked having to play "Cadians" to get access to certain strats, relics, etc. The flexibility feels much more guardsman and I look forward to really showing off my custom regiment that has troops from multiple worlds. I think list building is much more enjoyable with this codex. I definitely feel like I want lots of cp for all the great and fun strats in this book.
Have to take into account that a knight so much as looks at them and they disappear. They are cavalry so they have to go around every bit of terrain which makes them predictable in movement which is the worst kind of predictable if you need to get to the enemy mostly intact. They will be good when they hit but they have to get there in one piece
@@hammer1349 right but the big Questoris and Dominus knights dont have access to armour of contempt, they dont have any -1D and they dont have any invul at all in close combat. so they'll be hit on 2s for 3D per time and wont get any save. they also cost between 450-650 points to bring.
PSA regarding AoC/Indirect Fire, cos there's only so many times I'm gonna answer the same comment 😅
AoC is not in the Codex
Ignoring Indirect Fire penalties is not in the Codex
The Codex shouldn't be used in Organised Play until the standard Codex is out, which won't be until after the New Year (both of these statements come straight from GW on WarCom)
As such, at a tournament at least, though you can infer in all games, you should be using the 8th Ed Codex, which is what the Slate is for, until the Codex comes out on general sale.
In friendly games, or with TO permission, use the new Codex, and have a blast!
But using the Dataslate will be, imo, a patently unfair and unnecessary buff you're giving to yourself, for an army that doesn't need it.
Yes, CSM got AoC, but their Codex dropped as a Standard, available to everyone at the same time Codex, so the Slate didn't need to be changed.
The current Slate isn't going to be updated for around 3 months, which will likely coincide with the Guard release, and I can all but guarantee AoC and the Indirect Fire rules won't be staying, as if they were, they'd be in the Codex (again, this was directly stated by GW on a WarCom article, that "certain" elements had been rolled into the Codex)
Put another way, if you want AoC and the Indirect Fire rules available from the Slate, logic dictates you'd also still use Hammer of the Emperor, which is now Born Soldiers. So having Hammer means you'd never need Born Soldiers, and so could have 2 other Doctrines- you know that's absolutely not the case 😅
If your opponent agrees, fine, but looking at their new rules you really don't need AoC nor the Indirect boost, so getting a bigger advantage would be handicapping your foe unfairly, doing your generalship a disservice as you'd be playing with unnecessary extra rules, and are setting yourself up for disappointment when they inevitably get removed.
We'll continue to play them without the Slate, and if they stay, I'll eat my hat 😅
I feel like indirect fire was kinda fitting for Guard but yeah everything else needs to go. Now that you can give invul to tanks there's no need for AoC.
On the other hand, the parts that were rolled into the codex were the ones that were in the original dataslate. The indirect fire nerf and Armor of Contempt came along after this was already in the printing cycle. We shall see.
Yeah it’s weird, almost all of AOC and indirect fire penalties also came from balance data slates. Just have to wait for another balance data slate to clear the muddy water of power creep.
Thank you
If indirect fire gets penalized then it will kill all the guard indirect, because it's not just the to hit that is a problem but also the extra armor.
And if AoC goes away then all the non battle tanks are dead on arrival and useless no point in running a hellhound or valkyrie if it is guaranteed to just die. Because there is still so much ap out there
Hahaha. That intro. The burgeoning 'taches make it even more on point. Bosses!
💪
Militarum Tempestus really got the short end of the command rod this time round. No orders after deepstrike, only 1 order, The tempestor command squad is 20 points more than the normal and no option to bring a tempestor prime on his own, limited special weapons, No regiments, No Hammer of the Emperor. How are literal child soldiers raised in the most prestigious war colleges of the imperium not 'Born Soldiers'? I dont want to say GW is up to foul play but the Kaskrin models did just get a refresh and they get everything that Tempestus scions dont. I would not be surprised to see a white dwarf update in a 6 months time with a 'Tempestus drop force' army of renown that changes this.
Step one of GW axing Scions, they have axed so many guard datasheets by now that it wouldn't surprise me.
I agree they are awful. A side note in this book. They took great potential and threw it away. :(
The 8th edition codex for the glorious Imperial Guard was released October 2017. Five years and nearly two whole editions later and we finally got a new codex. Hell, it's about time...
I would argue that the infantry buffs, even with the command squad being like it is, are not overly game breaking or unreasonable. Guardsmen die by the squad every turn, and you need to keep them in groups, in range, to give them orders. Once three squads of guardsmen get wiped in the first turn, that AP-1 lasgun shot isn’t nearly as… powerful as some people might fear. I feel that this book PERFECTLY reflects the weight of the militarum- overwhelming in large numbers, but only in large numbers.
I feel the same way about this codex as I do about 9th in general. Really glad it's getting more options, updates, and less disparity between bottom and top tiers. However, also groaning at all the new things to keep track and annoyed at more things that'll wipe you off the table all that bit faster. Things do too much damage nowadays
I really think they need to follow the AoS example. The new AoS books have been simplifying everything.
Removing overly complicated rules but keeping the fluffy gameplay rules. Also, removing feel bad abilities and giving uplifts to week faction but not strong ones.
Everything is very killy.
Tone it all down, remove a swathe of rules and strats, imo
More Chef is always appreciated!
Cheers 😅
I think Chef is overblowing lasguns. While hitting on 3+ and AP -1 universally is great, they wound targets on 5+ for the most part, elves, cultists, and tau firewarriors not withstanding. The take aim buff is also good for buffing special weapons, but not everybody is going to take, the obviously-statted-to-be-the-best-option, cadians. Furthuermore, Hammer of the Emperor was only so effective with squads and hordes of lasguns was because it sidestepped that very wound roll. While marines do get 2+ saves in cover against anything with less than AP -2, having to make ten of those saves and would still end up with a whopping 1 dead marine or so. Adding the AP -1 to lasguns doesn't affect drukhari with their invulns, demons with their demon saves, or marines with AoC. From my experience, Hammer of the Emperor was an enormous prop for the guard that kept them playable. It was a boon to tanks, but it kept the infantry from essentially being wound protection for whatever special or heavy weapons you have in the squad.
The tanks are better, but the leman russ also had to be worked on with how clunky it was in 8th, limping around or having minimally effective fire when you the unfortunate occurrence of rolling three 1s for damage rolls. Maxing the damage roll perpetually is the other end of that, but the model has been generally buffed, in anticipation of losing AoC for guard I suspect.
The orders are fantastic across the board with them fulfilling numerous roles from utility, mobility, and buffing unit capabilities, but the orders are also dramatically more restricted when compared to how many order sources are available in the 8th edition codex.
I think guard commanders will have to relearn the army, as the organization, statlines, strats, and orders have all changed in a lot of places. Then, they will have to test and adapt to find what mix of doctrines and army comp. works with their play style and in the game. Based on this video, and theory-crafting with other guard players on info from the leaks, I think the book will be good, but it will not be broken outside of particular extreme synergies that may exist in it and have yet to be fully unveiled.
Personally, I don't like that you essentially have a platoon commander and his command squad, an army or subsector commander with the castellan options, and the Lord Solar of the segmentum as your officer tiers to field. I think it's weird to be fielding the commander of a sub sector or segmentum alongside a platoon or two of infantry. It removes a significant amount of regimental structure from the guard and replaces it with high-level staff officers that are randomly on the front line.
I'm absolutely convinced that we will lose armor of contempt but RETAIN the indirect fire exemption-- there is no reason to expect that the indirect fire exemption would be in the codex, because it is a reference to a rule which itself only exists in the balance data sheet.
I really wonder why GW is missing out on adding Rogue Traders or Inquisition as subfactions, since it would make total sense with the upcoming games: Darktide and Rogue Trader. Would be a good cross promotion and might get some more people into the hobby.
Love the faction focus (and rashes boys). Not a big fan of the codex creep tbh but at the same time it’s nice to see guard being talked about
Bringing the Guard up to the level of the 9th edition isn't codex creep. Sounds like Chef's opinion is that with a bit of points tweeking, they're about right.
@@omegonchris but they’ve progressively got more powerful as they’ve gone on so to be level it had to creep up compared to early 9th codexes. Also they’ve have some overpowered crap in there, which they either don’t play test (bad) or deliberately leave it to make hype and sales (bad). No doubt will be ‘balanced’ later (also bad)
If you think guard codex is on the level of votan your cracked
@@yoyoimokazaki that one was outright silly. This one is too much though
@@00pugsly48 Too much where, its literally the same codex with inf going up 5 points. Sure lord solar is good point value and rough riders might be abit on the cheap side but they are losing over half the battle reports so far. Id like to know what you think guard deserve after being a dumpster army for 4 and a half years if they cant even have a good codex without it being called broken.
Never played with Yarrick but I do miss him!
Also, very happy with the initial impression of the guard codex, as you say the data sheets are mostly fine (looking at catachans, Deathstrike and mortal wound strategem mainly) as they are and can easily be balanced through point tweaks.
I also understand the difficulty of predicting a meta and balance of the game some 6-8 months ahead of a codex release and sometimes they will do quite nicely balanced, like GSC and chaos knights, and sometimes it's gonna be harlequins and tau. And I get wanting to err on the more powerful side of the scales rather than underpowered through arguments like selling but also as a player I want a glow up, not like a sidegrade of the same shit, and it's okay if the glow up gets toned downed once it's dropped.
IMO GW should have a standard of releasing a mini FAQ/balance slates for codex release within 3-6 weeks after it's dropped where they are also allowed to tweak points. That way a broken codex from broken point coat isn't gonna remain there for five months just because it was released just after a season point update. In this re-tweak I would expect very little to change, if anything, for most releases but if there would appear another harlequin we would know a tweak is coming shortly.
Movember works really well with this codex
Perfectly timed really
Thanks for this breakdown! Was listening whilst building my Genestealer cultists and wondering how Brood Brothers will work now? But anyway, about a third of the way through my mind was already reeling with the order/strat combo possibilities for IG now. They really remind me of the bad times of Ad Mech from earlier this year. It is so hard to balance that many rules and buffs.
Technically they won't work at all until an FAQ, as doesn't exist, but I'd argue just do the same units as before
In regards to the crisis suits, can deny the turn 1 deepstrikes with that orbital interference strat. Gives your big guns time to do atleast some work or push out and thus push the suits back as well as maybe take out the stealth suits. Stuff like daemons and drop pods would also be hurt pretty badly by that
I have to say I like the generic approach. You can put anything on the table and give them cool rules as to how you want to play. Vs. the old way of the model drives the rules. However with the thin model range a little less cool? but you still have Cadian, Kasrkin, chatachan, death Korps Krieg, and scions. so a pretty good range?
Agreed, you can use whatever and not be constrained by classic models having meh rules. It's also super fluffy, as that's how the Guard have always worked in fluff, mixed regiments
I love the contrast of happy Bard, and grumpy Chef. What a great paint scheme that is 🤌
😅
Coming back to his video, I found it absolutely hilarious at 24:30. Not only is that what I did every time with my Guard army, my warlord Company commander for my custom Guard regiment is Colonel Jericho Hoode. I'm 99.999999% sure I'm not the one being referenced but it was quite the thing feeling like I was being called out by Chef XD
Leontus looks like the original Imperial Guard model from way back, peaked cap, white uniform and golden breast plate, who you could put on a horse.
Pretty much
As someone with a Scions army, I want to play a game or with the new rules before I start thinking that everything is ruined forever. I had heard that Scions could drop from Valks 6" away from enemies, but since you didn't mention it in the flyer or scion section, I guess that's not actually true.
Iirc yes they do, but only so much time to cover so much stuff 😅
@@thepastrychef8014 I think pure scions might still have a good number of tricks to be fun to play. Glad to hear that 6" drop rule is actually there.
With the added range to HSLG needing to drop closer to the opponents model isn't really an issue, also at 6" you are still out of meltarange which was the dealbreaker for taking Gorgonnes with their 5" deepstrike strat, not that it would have mattered if they kept it since Scions can only have a maximum of two meltas in a squad now.
Im just a little apprehensive about the fact they seem to be able to do anything? Ignore cover, +1 to hit and ws, ignore invuln, extra Ap, counter deepstrike, ignores fnp…. Most armies can do like 2 of those? Lots of extra stuff tagged on where it’s like, yes it does that thing yours does, and it also gives another bonus.
22:43 Having just had all my tanks blasted off the table turn 1 by Iron Hands AP-5 everything last weekend, I'll take it.
I'm a Scion player, tried guard but wanted that little bit more out of my troopers. I really hope they don't go to the way side but take on a side army with a bit more. If I was a designer at GW this is how I would change the line. Does not have to be to crazy.
HQ tempester
Elites would be a stealth sniper team. (Ghost) StarCraft, the command squads now
Troops Scions or breacher squads (The naval units that just came out)
Fast attack would be duel pistols jetpack units (Reapers) Starcraft.
Heavy support would be Vendetta gunships
Would be focusing more on rapid insertion.
Transports Primes, Valkyries, small skimmer aircraft that could hold 6 men, Some kind of ODST drop pod that could change the special weapons on the fly for CP.
All in all the army would have 11 different unit options.
Love my toy soldiers and hope they stick around with some love from GW
So hype for guard to come back in a big way on the channel! Your guard armies are so pretty!
The intro is absolutely fantastic chaps 😂😂👏👏 bravo
Actually really like Chef with that mustache! Bard also rocking that 80's look great!
Just you then 😅
This is the only way I will take discussion of the new Astra Militarum seriously with munitorum regulation mustaches.
On demand checking in, that wall of death with momma bear is nice 👌. I am glad for us getting a codex finally, but it does kind of suck to only have it at the end of the line. Such is the guardsmen fate, afterthoughts, while being the core of the imperium.
I mean, this is the Codex making sure the Imperium hasn't fallen yet clearly 😅
This is going to be a good time, a lot of this sounds really nice. Glad to finally have lots of new things to explore and play around with.
Happy that the knight codex released in a balanced state, really wondering what the codex would’ve been with Questoris knights with 2+ saves and dominus knights with T9.
Im pretty sure there are ways of giving t9 to knights
@@latayantheazran I’d like to know what they are as I haven’t found one in my codex yet
Knights are weirdly quite balanced.
Not something I ever expected myself to say, but here we are 😅
@@latayantheazran Not in imperial knights. Not sure about Chaos...
The likelihood of the guard getting a new codex during movember is pure taliho goodness
Sad to lose so many unique datasheets like special weapons and veterans but overall excited for this codex. I expect we'll keep the indirect fire rules in any balance update as hitting on 5's with artillery otherwise will be a complete waste of time, you'd just use battle tanks.
I love how much you hate that the deathstrike missile type can be chosen after seeing opponents army, but it doesn't seem to bother you at all that rough riders don't have ro pick a spear type at unit selection, they just somehow change the tip on the charge whilst riding horses hands free
That's dumb too. I think we cover it in the game 😅
My friend got an early copy, I asked him what he thought of it.
His words were almost exactly the same as yours.
"Exactly how did Cadia fall? These guys are bonkers." 😂
Great minds 😅
It makes more sense why Abaddon threw a Blackstone Fortress at the planet, he was tired of their shenanigans.
Cadia now recruits the most elite from all planets, so they are actually stronger and can maybe defend a planet now.
In the lore abaddon lost the ground war, he only hurled the blackstone fortress at Cadia in a fit of rage.
Lorewise brother Abby got absolutely shat on and left in shambles, which is why he decided to "yolo" hurl the Blackstone.
Regarding that lasgun being better than a bolter rule. It's not the lasgun it's the meatbag holding it.
You have the steady, stern and, somehow comforting voice of your commander firing through your helmet vox saying, "Okay, this is it. Remember your training. You're back on the range. Relax and make them pay for every meter." Suddenly, your nerves calm down and the screaming tide of tyranids rolling toward you doesn't seem so frightening. You remember the diagram the sergeant showed you that week pointing out the spots to instant kill the various bugs. With a grim smirk you take aim and fire with devastating accuracy, along with every man on the line.
Yeah no
@@thepastrychef8014 Except that's actually the logic behind it. Orders = better performance for the soldiers. Armor piercing in this game makes no sense and is litteraly just a gameplay mechanic. They get guidance so they shoot better, know what to do and actually wound stuff.
@@drizzziit1 ok, but space marines shoot better and have bigger guns
@@hmad898 Then buff bolters. Don't make guardsmen shooting more garbage than it already is just because bolters set a (low) standard yet are more powerful in the lore. They already need to use an order to do that and it could be spent on something else.
Perhaps remove the splashing order thing, that's excessively powerful. Not take aim itself.
@@drizzziit1 I was just saying man, I dont think space marines need any more buffs. I just think it's a little silly to think about. The 400 year old astartes veteran with many cybernetic and genetic enhancements with a 75 caliber rpg gun shoots about as good as a human with a flashlight after his commanding officer told him to shoot real good.
I want to see Mordian Glory Trending in this Chat XD
Great video. I’m looking forward to playing with this codex. Fully-mobile Leman Russ! VROOOOM!
Also, I love the mustaches!
@23:52 “Tankhuman physiology.” Comedic genius Bard.
I need the book in my hands to see what kinds of lists I can build, but it looks promising. Hoping the inevitable balance doesn't overcompensate
I really like the new Guard. They still take loads of casualties so you won't be fielding the "Death Stars" of Chaos, Blood Angels, etc., and if you keep your gun line in bounce range they're much more vulnerable to melee. Also, AP -1 lasguns in the AoC meta currently is basically AP 0. Bascially, I see them as a halfway house between Orks and Tau - the MAJORITY of your turn will be in the shooting phase, but they CAN do stuff in other phases. Something else to consider is that since their Artillery have lost the 1-3 per slot, you won't have to deal with the "Parking Lot" that you have to deal with now of "Here's 3 Basilisks AND a Manticore AND a Mortar pit and they're going to be out of sight ALL GAME". They've gotten a lot more vulnerable, so yea they've gotten some shooting buffs. But after turn 1 when they're taking casualties left and right I think you'll find they're pretty balanced.
The fact an AP1 Lasgun exists is my problem. Not everyone uses Marines, and it's hardly an AoC Meta with Nids, Tau, Crons and Quins about 😅
And yes they die in droves, if they're infantry at least, but they're so cheap you can get so much on the board (see the game), making them very flexible
As for the Artillery thing, I will not miss 6+ Basilisks I can't interact with all game 😅
@@thepastrychef8014 Sure, but all the armies you mentioned have either significant fast-moving melee threats or outshoot Guard even with the AP-1 buff. Guard need the shooting buff for the sheer fact that every army out there has HARD counters to Guard shooting. Gargoyles/Raveners/Hormagaunts, Destroyers, Suits, and the entire Harlequin army wreck multiple squads of Guard when they close in, which they can do QUICKLY. So Guard do need a little shooting omph to take out at least SOME of them before dying by the tray-full. Maybe this makes those armies actually play more tactically than the current strategy I always see of "Shove my army down their throat as fast as possible because I NEED to tag their parking lot."
really disapointed that heavy weapon squads are still 1 squad per heavy slot. Feels like theres gonna be alot of teams shelved as people move to the more optimized cadian dataslate and not enough heavy slots to realistically use those teams
GW can’t stop forgetting that what made Heavy Weapon squads useful before 8th was their ability to be spammed outside of your normal detachment limits
Hey guys! Great video! Recently started the hobby properly and have finally started my first army, I’ve gone with Astra Militarum however focussing on the Death Korps of Krieg does the new codex support my army well and do you have any tips for someone who’s new to Warhammer 40k and for my chosen army/faction?
My Death Riders of Krieg will ride once more!!
To be honest, this video had me so excited for the changes and then I watched the game against the tau. The guard did so poorly and were crushed so easily that it’s really discouraged me from even bothering to get the codex.
I need to see this video now
Gonna be hard to unlearn my bad habits from last edition. This is gonna change the flavor of my collection but not for the worst. Fun times ahead! Thanks for the video gentlemen great work
Enjoy the challenge of change!
@@thepastrychef8014 oh you wherent joking. Looking at a general mixed armed army (tanks and gaurdsmen) seems reasonable. But add in some arty and stack the bonuses then it becomes horrific.
Vox casters paired with bombardiers (+1 to hit), tank orders for reroll 1s and bonus to blast. Now earthshakers ignoring line of sight are real scary 😨
I just wanted to say that you both pull off the mustached look and should continue it into the future!
I was hoping the guard book would be great, but not "S tier, needs a day 1 nerf."
"Raise high the black banners of vengeance. Now is our time." ;)
Well it's not S tier, it will very likely struggle into current nids, clowns and perhaps into Tau. Should be pretty decent against anything else.
I think I speak for most of us; If we had this codex from the beginning of 9th, we had won most of our games we lost. Had multple people come up to me at my last few tournaments and say something along the lines of "Youre playing guard? I am so sorry", before tabling me in 2 turns with their fancy new codexes. If someone cries about balance, just show them the winrate of guard all of 9th. All i wanted was an even playing field. I quit because of it, but for the guardsman who stuck it out the entire time, get em boys. Hell, it's about time.
Loving the Movember look.
👨
I'm pretty excited about the Rogal Dorn and using Krieg as a troops, they fit the lore of my Guard regiment much better. It's weird having regiments mixed at the tactical level, since they tend to support each other but not integrate unless ordered to for being understrength. I plan to stick with Krieg models though, as well as Tempestus units since they actually do integrate with other regiments being part of the Officio Prefectus.
Sounds like you're able to use the fluff with the crunch, which is a good sign. Just don't need to use the non-Krieg Infantry if you don't want to 😁
I started 9th with 500 points of guard and it's grown but I hate the fact that I had to wait so long for this codex but I'm ready with 2000 points of guard
What about all the base sizes changes ? Can we have the info from you guys ? It's very important and that was not communicate officially yet.
Not a clue, didn't look
Base sizes aren't part of the rules, its just what comes in the box.
Command Squads are on 28mm. Regular infantry are on 25mm.
base sizes are the same, the new models just have different, more realistic proportions. you dont have to replace your old imperial guard models
Are you okay, chef? Looking a little Gaunt... Lol. Thanks for some Guard love!!! And digging the 'stash.
lol
Can we still run deathriders, engineers, etc? If so do they get tactics etc?
I'm glad for the guard players getting some fun back into their army after what felt like an endless thirst patch since their last book.
On the other hand, I remember guard leafblower lists from the 5th(?) or 6th edition and they were horrible. Granted, you're not getting alpha-struck by 3 Valkyries nowadays, but as with Tau and now Votann, an army that deals damage mostly from range is very hard to balance.
Point the units for what they can actually achieve with all buffs considered, and there is less sales because of a missing wow factor. Don't do it and the book immediately takes its place next to the top factions in raw power.
It now finally hurts when you're getting hit by a demolisher cannon, and that is good. Why there is another ignore-invul-weapon in the book is beyond me, however. GW might as well call them "situational saves".
I concur that lasguns should be underwhelming, but there should be lots of them. So I'd rather see more shots than AP-1 and what not, while the laughing stock of 40k (the holy bolter) just cries in a corner. Also, the order systems seems to be a bit out of hand.
So yeah, fixing orders and points with the FAQ/Balance Data Slate and Munitorum Field Manual and the codex is on its way of being a lot more fun to play against - which I'm not quite certain it is now.
PS: Rough riders and Kasrkin have more attacks than space marines! Something is going horribly wrong! :D
with the changes to the codex and the way the orders work , how as a death korps player would i get the regemental orders to my death korps troopers? as i dont see them having the ability to carry a vox caster.so i would need a command squad and then keep them in the 6 insh range ? or am i missing someting
Moustache works really well on Chef actually 🙂
The books looks pretty solid (and after 5 years, it’s a welcome change)!
I will say though, most of Chef’s complaints come down to GW’s lazy rules writing by making all upgrades free. If you had to pay points points for the guns I really don’t think it would be a problem. I want to play a game with points, not power level…
Dont understand why armor of contempt works for Chaos's Space Marine and not for Guard anymore ? The dataslate works for all codex, the old and the news. Or i missed something.
Love it thanks guys
Things I never expected to hear in a 40K discussion “ I like the fluffy ones” 😂
I aprove TTT's embrace of the 'stache fashion. Lads are looking like fine british gentlemen
How are you Chef? Everything all right?
Winners:
- Cadian Shock Troops: Just the best value troop unit we have now.
- Kasrkin
- Rough Riders
- Sentinels
- Leman Russ Tanks: Mainly Executioner and Vanquisher.
- Hydra: Turret weapon, so 8 AP-2 autocannon shots hitting on 3+. This thing is just a better Castigator for far cheaper. Shreds aircraft with +2 to hit and double shots against them.
I expected many of these to be nerfed.
Potential Winners:
- DKOK Death Riders: Even if it’s just keyword changes. New melee order lets them hit on 3+ which is massive, can get far better traits than the old DKOK one, and Commissar orders. Not as damaging as Rough Riders of course but far more durable. As I said though, highly depends on the keyword changes.
Losers:
- Catachans: Just sad, overcosted and incredibly restrictive options. By far the worst rule of the named regiment unique units.
- DKOK Guardsmen: Mini-transhuman on a T3 model is incredibly situational, most anti-infantry weapons shooting at you will be S4 and S5. Can’t take a vox if you have a plasma gun. I don’t think they’re terrible, but probably 5 points overcosted which really starts to add up for Guard.
- Pure Scions: I stress pure here, as Scions will still have a place as objective grabbers for regular Guard, but getting no regiment traits when taking them pure is rough. Especially when their datasheets are so limited. All their "buffs" are essentially rolled into Kasrkins, the only things they really have over them is built in deepstrike and synergy with the scion WLT's. You also can't receive orders after deep strike.
- Regimental Preacher: Just far more limiting than the 8th edition one and worse than the current Sister one.
- Ratlings: Still just not a great unit. Now that the Scout Sentinel has forward deploy there's no use for them.
- FOB: Just too expensive for what you get. The lascannons are good and currently the only option really worth taking, but for a few points more you can just take a Russ with similar firepower and far better durability. The anti-infantry missiles should have been indirect.
- HWS: Got more expensive, no durability increases so no reason to take anything other than mortars still and one squad still takes up a whole HS slot.
- Taurox Prime: Could have really benefitted from turret weapon. It's the only heavy firepower Scions get. Taurox battle cannon is still terrible, Taurox gatling cannon got nerfed, Taurox missile launcher suffers from being purely a missile launcher. No 5++ really hurts them.
Potential Losers:
- Everything with indirect fire. Really depends if Guard lose the nLoS exemption.
- Tech-priest: If guard keep AoC then there's really no point to bring one. 5++ means nothing if you have 2+ and AoC.
Everything else is okay.
basilisks not in a squadron, what? How do I take 6 Leman Russ and 3 Basilisks in a battalion now
pay 2CP to use a patrol for 2 russ squadrons
@@bellportbattlebunker4682 ewww
Scion command squads have command squad keyword yes? If I add an attaché to that command squad like an astropath or an officer of the fleet, so they lose deepstrike?
For the pure scions detachment can I still take advisers and auxila? If I add in a vulture gunship do they no longer count as troops?
Does the tempestor prime go in the command squad like the company commander or are they still lone models?
Yes they lose Deep Strike
Yes you can, planes don't stop you
In the squad
Best intro ever 😍
Cheers 😅
Wait ... can orbital interference make it so you lose your reserves if they're not deployed? So if they interfere in both round 2 and 3 (expensive yes but could be worth) or I don't put my reserves down T2 and they do it turn 3 ... do I lose my unit?
What happens with Orbital Interference if delay reserves past turn 3 or can't you do that? As that would mean unit is destroyed.
Can't use it turn 3 iirc
I'm meant to be playing a game against the new guard early in December with my Goff Orks. And honestly, after seeing this, I'm mildly terrified! Please advise! 🤣
Guard don't have a lot of good options for melee. Sure, we have bullgryn but mega nobs will eat bullgryn any day of the week.
Any idea how Brood Brothers running alongside GSC would work now that there's no regiments.
I hate mustache's but Chef looks amazing in one! He could be an IG trooper model.
I think people are putting too much weight in the rough riders being broken strong. They CAN punch above their weight but your opponent will have to play around them being able to charge a good unit or catching them out for a counter punch. They are very much a glass cannon, in my eyes they are nowhere near as crazy as some of the dedicated melee options space marines can put forward that do absurd amount of damage while maintaining resilience
What's the Heavy Bolter stats? I thought I head S6 and AP2 on it and I was wondering if that was a faux pas or new stats.
nothing changed its such a common weapon they would need to change it in every codex which is why it got a global buff at the start of 9th
so guard artillery hits on 5s ... i don't think that will stick around that makes 10 of their units unplayable
Only if you're hiding them behind LoS. So like every other Indirect Fire ability, that's the trade off to being effectively invulnerable to shooting. Perish the though there's a choice to make on the battlefield 😅 Good thing they have easy ways of getting rerolls and bonuses to Hit though
@@thepastrychef8014 with the new guard codex it wouldn't surprise me if that indirect fire rule might disappear from the dataslate. The vast majority of other units with indirect fire are bs 3+ or even 2+, or otherwise have ways of auto hitting on some set value. It can be tough to hit much on 5s and the +1 armour save basically negates most of the ap improvements for the guard artillery, like marines in cover out of LoS will still get a 3+ save even at AP -3
35:34 Most unfortunate. Why can't he give orders to the crew of his own tank? :P
Love you guys!!!
I'm excited that my codex is strong, I just hope it doesn't drive players away from me, cuz what's the good of a new codex if no one wants to play against my army?
Where did you get all those heads with the beret on them
Did they add any Krieg stuff? Or will that be out in an imperial armour book?
Only the plastic Infantry squad. GW have never, and likely never will, put FW stuff in a Codex
@@thepastrychef8014 yeah I was wondering how they'd treat that plastic kill team. So it has its own special data sheet as a Krieg squad?
Thanks for the review, great work as always.
Old guard rules felt like a buffétable in a 400 year old mansion, 9th edition guard rules feel more like a bowl of gruel served in a soulless corporate office.
I don't care about the codex being good for competitve play, that is just a mirage anyway as GW can turn a good codex into trash-tier whenever they want with slates/FAQ/errata.
I just cared that Guard was diverse, flavourful and felt "guardy", 9th edition guard feels the opposite, lazy, soulless and streamlined.
I guess 10th edition isn't far off at least.
Ooh, 'Catch A Tan'? Tell me more! 😄😉🙃
You two are the best, such a great vid and so informative, and Sooo many good chuckles you lads give me.
If Ghazgkhul Mag Uruk Thraka is within 6" of your Command Squad... it's already too late!
As someone who played his AM army for the last time in 7th, I was confused and wondering where the points for the special weapons are in the new codex.
Then someone told me they are for free now and I was just "wtf?"
Ah. So Scions will be getting their own book later on. Maybe they’ll get some new units.
I mean
That's a nice idea
Don't think it's rooted in reality, but a nice idea 😅
Love the optimism that’d be sick!
As a guard player I would rather have less powerful units at a lesser point cost. I like to field tons of weak troops. That is what the humans should be in 40k. :-)
From your input I think the main OP issue might be the bouncing orders. Other than that we have to wait and see what results that come in from the GTs and RTTs.
I hate to see the infantry squad fixed point costs risk to go up even further - making my army even smaller on the table. If too strong I’d rather have some rules reined in rather than point increases. Unfortunately it’s easier for GW to bump some point costs up.
I think without bouncing Orders, the points feel about right imo, maybe a little to cheap still, but I think that's par for the course with every new Codex for the most part 😅 Bouncing just makes them so much more powerful than their base cost, so it either needs to go, or the Order giving units need to come up heftily in cost
Personally i HATE that scions do not get any doctrines... stormtroppers is ok, but lets be honest i reckon 80-90% of us scion players would trade that for 2 of the other doctrines... all our flavour got taken away :(
Not the biggest fan of either of the new horse kits, though lord horsey can be improved a lot by ditching the GW colour scheme and going for something darker (wish he came with a head swap though). The rough riders....ouch. It may just be me, but I bloody hate the blanket thing, and will without a doubt be looking for alternatives.
Chef... Please look up how Kasrkin is pronounced by the Kasrkin Sargent in dawn of war. No idea if it is correct... But it is the way! Really enjoyed the video!
No
😅
I hope basilisks are viable. I want a Dkok Army and they need charging soldiers and Arty
BRING IN THE COLONEL, THE OG
COLONEL COLONEL COLONEL
COLONEL COLONEL COLONEL
COLONEL COLONEL COLONEL
COLONEL COLONEL COLONEL
COLONEL COLONEL COLONEL
COLONEL COLONEL COLONEL
COLONEL COLONEL COLONEL
Bit of a commute from Nottingham 😅
@@thepastrychef8014 The dream is still alive !
Given the rumours circulating about a 10th ed reboot, I'm already frustrated that if I buy this codex it will only be valid for 6 months. (I have a big Guard collection so I'll be waiting for the book to release on its own)
10th is still atleast a year away though. Absolute minimum 9 months.
Who knows
People who read the April content validity update know. ;) The 9th edition supplements expire at the latest in June, 2023, which means new edition probably July.
Does the ursula from little mermaid plus 1 strength work in shooting?
Do Commissars prefectus orders get to go through vox casters or is it only the command squads
Only Command Squads use the Vox, as only they have it. Commissars have to be close to inspire fear... I mean loyalty in their men
Love chef as always !!
💪
Thank you Chef! Thank you Bard!
You're welcome!
Great video guys. +1 for the staches.
I really think the design of the codex is much better. The doctrine changes are so much better as I disliked having to play "Cadians" to get access to certain strats, relics, etc. The flexibility feels much more guardsman and I look forward to really showing off my custom regiment that has troops from multiple worlds. I think list building is much more enjoyable with this codex. I definitely feel like I want lots of cp for all the great and fun strats in this book.
I know everything else has other than Russes have... But have sentinals lost squadron aswell D:
I reserve my opinion for after I've put eyes on my own copy of the dex. however, based on your review I'm thoroughly chuffed! ✌️😊
How guys on horseback can be strong enough to take out Knights is absolutely bonkers.
I think they are making them so strong to encourage people to buy and take them with Leontus.
Yup, they punch far too hard
Have to take into account that a knight so much as looks at them and they disappear. They are cavalry so they have to go around every bit of terrain which makes them predictable in movement which is the worst kind of predictable if you need to get to the enemy mostly intact. They will be good when they hit but they have to get there in one piece
They are super glassy
@@hammer1349 right but the big Questoris and Dominus knights dont have access to armour of contempt, they dont have any -1D and they dont have any invul at all in close combat. so they'll be hit on 2s for 3D per time and wont get any save. they also cost between 450-650 points to bring.