Game Theory: Sonic BROKE His Own Lore! (Sonic Frontiers)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ก.พ. 2023
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Friends, today we’re running headfirst into the world of Sonic! It’s been a while since we talked about everyone's favorite blue speed demon but today there is a good reason. The lore from the new Sonic Frontiers game has everyone up in arms, and so we’re here today to figure out the TRUTH behind the Sonic Lore!
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Credits:
Writers: Matthew Patrick, and Tom Robinson
Editors: Dan "Cybert" Seibert,Pedro Freitas,Warak and Brandon_n_motion
Assistant Editor: GeekyPeanut
Sound Designer: Yosi Berman
#Sonic #SonicFrontiers #SonicTheHedgehog #SonicLore #SonicTheory #SonicFrontiersLore #Frontiers #Sega #MatPat #Theory #GameTheory - เกม
Fun fact: Sonic's lore is so broken that, as we speak, SEGA's hiring an entire team just to organize it all.
Yep, and it seems that the first fix attempt is so strong it has pretty much broken everything before it, for the better imo (also why does everybody hate Unleashed)
Yes, however you also have stuff like Tails' regression in Forces or Sonic's personality shift in Colors
@@kian7406 This
They didn’t need a team just hiring me would have been fine. I was about to make the same video but matpat beat me to the punch.
@@federicoislab Sonic's personality only really changed in the various comics and cartoons. Sonic has always been rather positive and likes to set his own pace. In Colors, Sonic is much more chill compared to say, Adventure, because he's literally in a giant theme park and has matured a bit mentally after the entire Adventure Era arc he went through.
Matpat: "does it break the canon that chaos is chao?"
Ian: "chaos is still a mutant chao. The mutation turns back the clock and makes them look like their ancestors"
Matpat: "so how can these both be canon"
Literally was about to point this out
Yeah there was literally no theory video needed for this one
Wait so the ancients are ancestors of chao!? Sorry I’m new and curious
@@johnnywick2460 yea, the ancients evolved into chao via radiation from the chaos emeralds, and chaos mutated to look like the ancients via that same radiation
I can see why Mat's speaking on it. He's not worried about how they turn back, he addressed how can a mutating emerald mutate something in reverse. And then he goes on about how to master can either empower or neutralize Chaos energy
Let's be honest, "No Copyright law in the Universe is gonna stop me!" Is the best out of context thing to say
Yes.
I mean he isn't wrong
I saw this comment before the video, and I thought MatPat was gonna be the one saying that.
Classic 2010s goof.
I love how he refers to Flynn as the 'former writer of archie' - and not 'the writer of the idw comics', which are alive, and actually built off of the game universe with the intention of being canon.
If that was the intention then they royally messed up
@@thanatosdriver1938 How so ? Because they've already been confirmed canon.
Come on MatPat, you have it right there: Chaos Theory, the fourth and final channel, covering whatever topic you feel like discussing that week
Given it doesn't fit on the other three.
I think it might be for book theories
We all know that we’d probably watch it no matter what he posts/
Book theory
what happened to that fourth channel anyway? didn’t he say it was going to be out in a week like a month and a half ago?
Fishing is literally the best "break" for a game that is focused on speed. You have to be slow and methodical with your movements. It's also an easy way to add the creature collector gameplay loop without having to create crazy looking animals on your own.
No.
I just stan Brian David Gilbert and his e3 video game drinking game game
I'm with you. The way they implemented in this game is genius too. Being able to use the currency from fishing to get almost any in-game item.
@@ramonandrajo6348 Yes. Even Sonic says "I need to unwind" it's meant to be a simple fun thing. It also speeds up the requirements for stuff like memory tokens, defence and attack buffs and lost Kocos plus keys and gears. So it's not just a slow fishing mini game it's a fast progression system.
Yup, no need to create crazy loooking animals, nature did that already. Just have to drag them from the abyss
MatPat making Sonic videos about things that hardcore Sonic fans all know, and acting like it's groundbreaking is a tradition at this point.
Yeah, unfortunately. 😅
True
But it's nice for those of us, like me, who know nothing about Sonic lore.
not everyone is a hardcore sonic fan jesus
He made this video for casuals I believe
I like how Matpat is just explaining the thing we were told by the writer, and calling it a theory
Why not? Worked with FNAF.
Not even explaining, repeating things we were told by the writer.
matpat has run out of ideas in this theory lol
@@baval5 MattPat is such a hack
@@jackflynn412ok
actually sonic was originally designed with storytelling in mind. in the japanese instruction manuals, it explained what was going on and even set up sonic adventure. this was made to contrast with mario's simple storytelling.
@Don't Read My Profile Picture this is why your dad left you
The existence of Dr. Eggman Robotnik is evidence Sonic has a story.
@@whaleping his name is Ivo!
@@whaleping Which one of them? Julian Ivo Eggman or Robotnik? X)
Really, the original Japanese manual called him Eggman, the Americans changed it to Robotnik, they hired some randos to build stories that lead to the nice Ovi Kintobor having an accident with an egg turning him into the evil Ivo Robotnik, slapping Julian on there, and Sonic is supposed to have five sisters...
And I know, the games now say Eggman Robotnik who has a grandfather called Ivo Robotnik, and that is just to try and tie together the Japanese and American mindsets. X)
@@PsychoticWonders0725 Ikr 😒
I never thought I'd see the day when MatPat isn't constantly crapping on Sonic.
Sonic the Hedgehog, lore and overall franchise thanks to the 4th Wall, is too much for MatPat to get right since he’s outside the fandom.
I won't give you any more respect if you're parodying those bots.
SO MANY BOTS
he literally took multiple jabs at the games
He clearly doesn’t know about the series from a lore standpoint tbh
I'm surprised MatPat didn't bring up atavism, i.e. mutating in a way that causes ancestral traits to reemerge. That seems like the most obvious explanation, not that neutralizing the chaos radiation somehow reversed the mutation (which is not how mutations work).
But if the Ancients mutated into the Chao from exposure to the Chaos Energy of the emeralds, then would it not make sense that the Master Emerald (which is one of the few things if not the only thing that can negate the Chaos Emeralds) can undo that radiation and ergo undo that mutation?
Fun fact: Nintendo kept Mario's backstory the same for at least 41 years. Knowing the person who raised him is Yoshi.
Another Fun fact: Scourge got mutated into a green colour because of this Master Emerald , Scourge was always blue and became Green because of the master Emerald
I think we’re gonna have to sit MatPat down and explain all the differences between the Archie Sonic Comics and the Fleetway Sonic Comics
bro fr
Sonic well be the next Fnaf of matpat
Or you know, towards the entire theory team...
I did not notice any mentions of Fleetway, but then again I did stop reading... Both comics a decade or more ago. All I know is that Archie just crammed in everything to try and have tie-ins with all the games, which I'm suspecting Flinn is doing now, and then had a reboot at some point. Fleetway has a strong message on "Power Corrupts" with Super Sonic being evil... and... Well, depending on rights maybe Flinn will throw in some Fleetway and grant Matt's wish. But, turning super that slowly corrupts and/or kills someone isn't anything new. Naruto anyone?
Everything is canon when it comes to sonic
Oh I’m sorry but eggman delivered “ I hate that hedgehog” so perfect. There’s two things always certain in sonic these days: banger osts, and Mike Polluck killing his role.
Mike might be the canon egg man but Alfred from the fan dubs will always be my canon eggman
@@heyoitskram5748 this + the adventures of sonic the hedgehog eggman will always be my canon eggman- men? whatever (I prefer Alfred as the “for adult audiences” interpretation and the adventures of sonic the hedgehog as any other interpretations, if you were wondering)
I have an announcement to make
Farewell to Matt Pat thank you for shaping our childhood
The fact Amy was more of a character than a crazy obsessed fangirl is heartwarming and nice
Makes me like her more than I used to(cuz she was a little crazy back then😓)
Yea I was wondering what happened to her?
@Moga shut up Ur just a bot and a scammer
and annoying
@@amari1368 oh how could I forget🙄
@@Sundeath41 I stg she got on my nerves in every sonic game 😂
Fun fact MatPat, the storyline of someone turning into a water creature was not from the Archie Comics, nor was it done by Ian Flynn
Agree 💯 you got this wrong Mat
Yeah didn’t he say that Chaos was confirmed to have been mutated? Or did the Archie Comic release before Sonic Adventure I’m not sure
✨Well Remember nothing is *perfect* ✨
i mean; wasn't the god chaos a literal chao before mutating into that?
Wait are you saying the story was written by someone else?
To add to this theory, in Sonic Adventure 2, if you raise a perfect neutral chao, which includes having it reincarnate multiple times >_>, it becomes a Chaos choa. A fully adult Chao that no longer dies and reincarnates and looks like a mix of a normal chao and Chaos. Showing that their alien forms aren't fully gone, they have to "grow up" into it.
So by your theory, the Master Emerald not only mutated the chao, but sped its growth... interesting
and there's Koco
@@firdanharbima6997 the koco are said to hold the souls and wishes of the aincents so not much to speculate there
@@uneditg6848 and then there's elder Koco
@@Tony_Man Or Chaos was a fully grown Choa before mutating. Either way works
You know, I do actually miss the old intro theme for game theory. The thing was an absolute bop, and so are the other themes, but the the first one was the best.
@MogaGenshin_on_Tele_Gram no
I actually really liked the fishing aspect, it was really relaxing especially after having to go through all those bosses. (I did not really pay much attention until i got to the last island so i pretty much stayed at lower stats until the very end.
Nah, if something is boring in real life, it usually doesn't turn out to be more fun as a video game. Many of the rare exceptions are activities that are boring only due to the prep work and/or in between busywork that can be automated in a digital form, but fishing isn't one of them.
Big the Cat is just too cool for Sonic
Matpat: *Shows clip where the writer literally explains how these two things can be canon*
Also Matpat right after: "That doesn't explain how these things can both be canon"
What? Mat, have you been drinking too much diet Coke?!
I was thinking the same here, he quoted the writer
"the mutation is a rollback to the previous thing, he's still a mutant chao that hasn't changed"
So there was no need for eggs man 🥚 explanation.
Matpat turned that quote into a 13 min video the way a school kid pads out an essay
@@gman1515 Like one of those game journalism sites that needs 4 paragraphs and fifteen ads to tell you how to evolve a Voltorb in Pokemon Scarlet and Violet (Level 30, btw).
@@Magimasterkarp like a food blog that has to explain their entire life story and childhood trauma before giving their recipe for roasted potatoes
9:55 this is actually the Fleetway comics.
"No Copyright law in the universe is going to stop me" is one of the best lines in gaming and no one can tell me otherwise.
Sonic 3's music will like to have a word
@@trashman9282 Nevermind I've been corrected, I'll give you that one. Hydrocity goes hard.
@@trashman9282 Nevermind I've been corrected, I'll give you that one. Hydrocity goes hard.
@@trashman9282 so would Ken Penders for that matter 🤢
@@trashman9282 sonic generations music and sonic 06 music would like to have a word
This could mean that super sonic itself is a mutation which coincidentally lines up very well with its inspiration. Idk if that was something they thought of when thinking about that or just something that works as Super States and Saiyans are similar but honestly really cool how everything connects back.
i thought all saiyans can achieve a super form if they just try hard enough, as shitty as it is Super basically gives us that information hell even someone able to possess a saiyan body can achieve it
@@Beefaroni_Bert if you want to combine both worlds, you can look at chaos energy as a steroid. It gives you, in moments what takes years of training to achieve on your own. Though it's reversable and means you can't do it at will.
And you run the risk of turning into a cute marketable blob creature
@@Beefaroni_Bert at this point yeah the original requirements for turning into a ssj was to be in need of power but in gotens case its just having enough S-cells
Also explains how knuckles nullified super sonic in his first appearance as the chosen master emerald warrior
@@yairr469 originally it was power and rage, but apparently s-cells also helps with gaining it, but also apparently if you just focus your energy in the back you can achieve it.
Farewell matpat 🫡
It's also worth mentioning that in sonic adventure battle 2 you can essentially morph the chao halfway back into their water monster form by getting them to reincarnate 3 times and feeding them one of each animal. It's called a chaos chao and it just shows that under the right conditions a chao will show traits of their ancestors without any use of chaos energy. It's like how pokemon can be old and yet unevolved. I think what keeps chao dormant is that they essentially live in little paradises with no natural enemies or predators, the most stress they experience being karate matches and racing, and only with each other. There's no reason for them to have to take on a form for battle and destruction. Perhaps chaos protected the chao to keep them pure, because he knew a garden of chao could destroy the world if they were properly threatened. Chaos was willing to destroy the humans himself to avoid an all out war, because if many of his kind were awakened the humans would REALLY try to kill them all, not just out of greed for the emeralds but out of fear.
Aww I like this fact! Thank you for sharing it. It's so true that if humanity sees something they don't understand they just straight up go for war.
Thanks for this bit of lore and trivia, makes the connection seem even stronger (although I Iann didn't really know this, or maybe he did but I don't it was accounted for while writting).
Well, not humans. It was the ancient Echidnas who threatened the Chao. Chaos may not have known what humans even were until he met Eggman 4000 years later.
That's a lot more words than I want to read, please shorten it to 20 words or less
I ain't reading allat
Am I the only one confused as to how MatPat seemed to miss the creator straight up saying that Chaos's mutation was a throwback to the Chao's descendants? The rest of the video is just a deep dive to reach a conclusion that was already said.
I think it was more to explain why it's a throwback
*ancestors not descendants
I was thinking along the same. The last few minutes felt like he was just saying the same thing in different words and different order. That just might be me picking up one what he’s trying to say before he says it tho
He has a tendency to do this kind of thing.
What he was explaining wasn't what happened, it's HOW. He fully acknowledged the point made my the creators and tried to explain exactly how what they were saying was possible, this is necessary because the chaos emerald's energy is what made the ancients turn into the Chao to begin with, so there needed to be an explanation as to how the master emerald could have made him back to normal if it made him that way to begin with. So yeah, you're right, we already know what happened, but Matpat wasn't explaining the what, he was explaining the how
5:01 FISHING WITH BIG THE CAT IS THE MOST RELAXING AND FUN THING TO DO NEVER GROAN AT THIS SERIOUS MATTER AGAIN
Who else is here after he said he was leaving TH-cam 💔 thank you for everything matt
I'm not normally into fishing mini games, but Big's simple fishing game compliments the fast paced gameplay of Sonic very well. I found myself really enjoying it as a part of the experience, something I think other games struggle getting across with their fishing sections
I loved that fishing mini game
That fishing area was so nice and relaxing, it was great. I also like how they made Big a calm fishing guide instead of a buffoon.
i always found myself going there when i needed a break from all the fighting. it's so relaxing. big's voice is certainly a help as well.
I haven't played the game but I've always found Big to be very cute and cuddly. So, I don't mind it.
I agree. they made the fishing fast paced, which I like.
Regarding the master emerald, 06 explains that the emeralds are gems of unlimited power that can turn your thoughts into reality. It's how by using two, sonic and silver were able to open a portal to the past and how shadow was able to seal mephilis into the scepter of darkness. Their thoughts of needing a certain task done was made possible by the power of the emeralds.
Too bad they aren't able to remember it.
They also describe the chaos emeralds as turning thoughts into energy in Sonic Adventure.
It's why Chaos only used the negative energy of the emeralds, he was thinking of nothing but anger and hatred.
@@austinfondren5053 Sonic does while Elise a tiny bit, go back to the last cutscene and you'll see Sonic does know Elise is doing the Festival and he does things differently than in the previous reality, yes Solaris made a second reality and allowed this before wiped from existence and timelines and it's because Solaris heard everything and lets Elise remember a little but not at her own will and needs her to do the Festival while Sonic makes sure she doesn't leave, that's why Solaris in its true form is called *The Flame of Hope*
So did Sonic Adventure and the Sonic movie 2.
@@austinfondren5053Sonic does remember the events of 06. Shadow is confirmed by Iizuka to also remember the events of 06, Blaze has some recollection of the events but not all of it, and Silver does not remember anything from 06. IIRC, Elise also has SOME memory of 06, but not a lot either.
So Sonic and Shadow at least remember 06
The characters/lore aren’t broken, they’re like the most fascinating things in the franchise
At 7:56 when he brings up what Ian says from an interview it kinda answers everything. The video ends here if you understand what Ian says. But I love hearing Matt do his thing so no matter what it’s cool that he went deeper and extended/ explained the science. Love what you and your team do Matt!
Funny thing is matpat, fishing is probably one of the nice things about frontiers, after so much actions. A nice slow fishing can be relaxing
Can someone please tell me what these bots exist for? I understand the crypto scammers and “my channel is better” trying to get hate watches/ comments, but it’s not hard to buy YT views so why tf post a link nobody will click on?
@@paulwilliams667 to bait idiots, that's why. Though honestly I thought it was gonna be a rick roll so I ignored it lol
9:50
MatPat: *talks about Archie Comics*
Also MatPat: *shows Fleetway Comics*
I had to do a spit take when I saw that.
Shouldn't take that long to figure out by their art styles and their covers to see that they are from two different publications, what's next? The IDW comics is Archie Sonic? The Sonic manga is Archie Sonic?
Ignores that the person he is talking about is writing the current run of Sonic Comics with an already connected world, published by IDW.
He uh, missed some comic research on this one, feels like the story is trying to follow up on that run of comics storyline more than anything.
THANK YOU i noticed that too i was upset when did that
Funnest fact the thing he was talking about never even happened in archie it was all just fleetway
Please do more Sonic theories like this, it's a franchise that offers a lot of mysteries, and lore.
YES
please not, since he doesn't know what he's talking about and he does theories about stuff the writers already explained themselves
“SoNiC yoU comE HeRE tO FisH ToO, I LoVE FiShINg”
I wouldn't expect that game theory would make a theory about sonic frontiers, but I'm in for it.
same tbh
Me too
These bots are crazy
@@fresh_coconut9859 honestly
Sam
Fishing is usually in games to be a change of pace. It gives the player a break from high-intensity gameplay and can prevent burnout. Fishing is usually used because it’s easy to make and is almost always relaxing and low stakes.
Huh.
Man the angler makes it the complete opposite in terraria
Maybe... if you are so tired you should just gtfo of the computer
And it’s also in other games like Link’s Awakening.
We Sonic fans are here for the intense high-speed action, not those boring fishing minigames. I think THAT was his point.
Who is watching this in 2024
Me
Me
Me
Yup
Me
I really like Sonic Frontiers it was fun and tried to make all the messy stories coherent and singular.
As for the Chao makes perfect sense to me. We see that they are already “genetically unstable” being able to turn into thousands of different variations.
It wasn’t all that great
@@atre5763 Just because you don’t enjoy something doesn’t mean I can enjoy it.
Sonic 1 had a story. It was kind of simple though. As you go level to level its supposed to become increasingly industrial. It was a very pro nature, Nature vs Industry series. Then it became monster of the month.
Crash 1 would later do the same. Hence why you started out with lush environments until everything becomes all mechanical in the final island. Which is another reason I enjoyed that game's linear map system, it told a story through the journey itself.
All Classic games had stories
if we were talking about chao - im surprised you didnt bring up how in the game when you give them certain attributes they can evolve into different looking chao including the "chaos chao" which looks exactly like chaos if its in the neutral form (instead of hero or devil)
-Bring up Sonic 06 and the "rocky transition into 3D"
-Bring up fishing and Big The Cat.
I swear critics of these games love to beat dead horses.
"Together you stopped the Ark. Overcame Neo Metal."
MatPat, that's a double reference to both Sonic Adventure 2 and Sonic Heroes. Neo Metal was the main villain of Sonic Heroes.
I believe there is a quick citation top right at that part
Now at least
“Stopped the Deadly 6 and the Black Arms each from destroying the world.” The list goes on.
@@AeonCDG 🥰 picture
The examples you showed were not from the Archie Comics. They were from the British Sonic the Comic created by Fleetway and Ian Flynn had no involvement in those.
My problem with the fishing minigame isn’t that it’s slow (I actually like the lofi aesthetic) but what I think is funny is how fishing can solve every problem you have. Wanna go faster? Go fishing. Can’t bear to beat another Squid? Go fishing.
that's why big has survived so long. he's the fishing god
I’m a bit late to the party, but did anyone else notice in the game that when the ancients first arrive on the planet, they were drawn to the master emerald. The master emerald, which was already cut to its current shape, and left abandoned on an empty island. That means that it was already used and lost by yet another entity before the emeralds even got to the planet!
I’d like to point out at 9:52 Matt says that the emeralds turn someone into a water monster in the ARCHIE comics. That never happened in Archie, that was Fleetway, those are two different comic continuities. Just wanted to clear up the confusion for anyone that may be confused.
In all fairness, the whole reason he brought up the fleetway comic was to give some flimsy reason for Ian to justify the narrative choice, which in of itself is completely pointless
It's just a point that can be ignored because it means absolutely nothing lmao
Oh my god, they wasn't kidding, MatPat really did just say he fixed the lore by showing us lore that wasn't even broken
IT'S STORY THEORY!
who wasnt?
Finally someone said something I was just sitting here like it didn’t contradict itself at all
Ah yes, the theory was "is it true" and then telling us "it's true" in 15 minutes
@@jesusmunoz6161 my brother plays this game🤨
Now, I want Matpat to do a series that is a deep dive into the fishing of video games and how they are all important and ....connected? lol
Eggman in Sonic Frontiers do be sounding like Beerus from Dragon Ball Super
I like how he’s been hinting at the fourth channel a lot more often than usual, signaling that we’re getting close
There is some text in the logo when its spun on screen if you wish to dive into it
It's prob book theory
@@blajjko he said it won’t be
Didn’t he say it starts with s
Yea I think its suit theory
Fishing in sonic is actually one of the most efficient ways of speed running the game when the whole point of sonic is him being fast
Ew, all bots in the replies
During the final stretch of the game there's a lot of lore dumping but one thing I did catch is when preparing for the return of The End, the Elder says something along the lines of "if we fail, we'll send the something or other with the chaos Emeralds to the larger one that drew us here."
So apparently the Ancients were drawn to Earth by the Master Emerald, which, as a last ditch effort to preserve the Chaos Emeralds, a group of the ancients took them to the Master Emerald, which caused them to mutate into the Chaos we know now, and allowed the rest of the Ancients to preserve their essence in the Koco
I ain't trusting Matpat with sonic canon if he can't tell the difference between the games (canon), Fleetway (non-canon), and Archie (also non-canon).
Fishing is a huge nod to Sonic adventure 1, where big the cat was a playable character that fished. I really enjoyed the addition in frontiers
Wait, there's something aside from fishing in this game?
I love the fishing area. It's a peaceful place. I love it. Just allows me to slow down. And relax.
@@E.G.I.L.3D Well there's the cooking mini game (I believe it came with MH dlc collab) where sonic is cooking a turkey leg in the same gameplay as MH cooking mechanic work (which makes earning those coins faster than fishing with big)
Rather than a nod its a ongoing jab by the devs. After Bigs appearance in the Adventure 1 the fans hated him, but the devs loved him. So in Adventure 2 the devs pup Big in every level, to show he is still holding on and there despite all the requests for him not to be. Since then the work him in as a kind of jab, Now once again he forces his way into the game, as a "optional" part.
The fishing is actually really fast with all things considered, the slow thing is leveling up speed and ring capacity
Funny how he theorized about something that doesn't retcon Chaos' origins (which could be easy to figure out by yourself if you're into the lore) but not the fact that the emeralds being from space seemingly retcons the cycle of Dark Gaia and Light Gaia, but who knows maybe they'll explain it in the next game
the answer to this theory is literally in game, the only part that he theorized is that the ME nullified the effects that the CE energy gave to the chaos and it doesn't even make much sense. this theory was made in 5 minutes and clearly the team doesn't know sonic lroe
I genuinely think the writers just forgot about Unleashed.
the master emerald probably attracts the chaos emeralds and scatters them to the ancients planet
@@Ichiyama22 The cannons on Chaos Island were directly stated to be on par with the power of Dark Gaia by Tails, so they definitely didn't forget.
I don't think the chaos emeralds coming from space would retcon sonic unleashed, since the chaos emeralds were being attracted to the master emerald. Also I still think the chaos emeralds could have been sent to space by someone or something, just like Sonic did in Sonic X.
0:02 Sonic CD:why are you ignoring me?
Whats more confusing is how Sonic Unleashed's Dark Gaia and the Chaos Emerald Temples fit into all this...
Probably, there was no "Gaia-beings" until after the Chaos Emeralds arrived, seeing that Light Gaia would only be able to defeat Dark Gaia using the Temples.
Honestly, I don't really care if it breaks the old lore. As far as I'm concerned, Frontiers has started a whole new generation/era for the sonic franchise and I'm really excited to see what comes next.
it was even marketed as an entirely new era of sonic
But that’s the thing, it doesn’t the title is pure clickbait.
@@atspeechless545 oh, I'm 100% aware of that since I watched the video. I'm just saying that even if it did break the lore, I wouldn't care.
Yep.I do hope that this era can make Sonic games a more reputable franchise again
@@alextalbain9269 idk, I feel like I’d kind of care, as doesn’t that invalidate everything or that specific thing that happened before?
8:09 "It offers no help on how these two things can both be cannon."
Um, it absolutely did! It's literally what the writer said: It's a rollback. The ancestors of Chao are ancients, and Chaos is just a mutated Chao that happened to mutate backwards. "The mutation is, he looks like their ancestors."
The fishing isn't bad, tbh. It's chill and breaks up the pacing of the game nicely when you stumble upon them.
It also wasn’t lacking at all in the Soundtrack. Those songs are boppin
Big the cat is a favorite among Sega, so they add him whenever they can. (Especially in SA2)
The Fishing Minigame was added so players could relax, and skip a few cyberspace levels, as well as for speed runners.
Ian Flynn isn't just the former writer for the Archie Sonic comics, he's also the current writer for the IDW Sonic comics
one of them, not the only one
@@Sydney_Angelyt true, but he was the first and main writer
4:41 if Sage never put Amy, Tails, and Knuckles in cyberspace, Sonic would've never destroyed the Titans because he would've had no reason to do so.
Then The End would’ve stayed in Cyber Space for another several million years.
5:01
I signed up to go fast and catch fish, and I’m all out of bait. At least they made it quick.
You also have to admire how Ian tried to bring back the lore of Sonic the Hedgehog and glue it all up in one single piece in order to create something better (I imagined he used spit and gum for it, though.... just for the sakes of laugh).
It's hard to do when every single storyline was created almost like it's own, standalone lore, mixing all kinds of stuff to become "unique" to it's predecessors.
Let's be honest, the only way the Sonic timeline could make sense again, is making some DC Crisis kind of thing. Some event that takes an entire game, and restructures the canon
0:53 Still waiting for Space Theory. Come on, Mack- I mean.. Mat. You know you want to.
9:54 I love how Matpat can't tell the difference between US Sonic comics by Archie Comics and UK Sonic comics by Fleetway Publications. And no, Ian Flynn didn't write any stuff to the UK comics and also Chaos has different attributes in those comics compared to games.
9:55 That's Fleetway, not Archie. Different publisher telling a completely different story with different interpretations of these characters. In Archie, Chaos was almost identical to how he was in the games at that point; but in Fleetway, he was a mutated member of a race of evil conquering aliens that were already established prior.
Exactly
we also see exactly how to get chaos adjacent chao in chao garden by evolving them enough. they become straight up immortal lmao
I have no clue how he mixed that up. The Fleetway book is literally most known for its wild and crazy Super Sonic.
@@mildex756 cuz MatPat isn’t a Sonic fan. He just likes making content to enrage the fanbase lol
@@zachmercer1065 He likes to enrage the fanbase, but he still needs research to do so.
I believe that the use of Super Sonic over the years actually had a positive effect on the blue blur. In Sonic 3&K, Sonic can perform an action called the Insta-shield, a move in which Sonic spins so fast that he becomes temporarily invincible, just like his Super form. In Sonic Adventure & Sonic Adventure 2, Sonic would learn how to perform the Light Speed Dash and Light Speed Attack, however by Sonic Heroes it would become part of Sonic’s main actions (sure he would have to learn them again in ‘06 and in Unleashed, but he relearned them again in Generations and Lost World along with his Peel Out ability from CD). In Heroes Sonic could make a giant tornado, this move is similar to his move in Sonic Battle where he could make a smaller twister. Not to mention his Boost ability from Sonic Rush which would carry over to the Modern games starting in Sonic Unleashed. Which finally brings us to Sonic Frontiers, where Sonic’s fighting abilities get an overhaul, not even including the Super form fights against the Titans.
and then there's Koco
Exactly. Sonic isn't an Ancient or a Chao, and the prior watery Chaos mutation from the comic isn't canon in the games. But looking at what we've seen already in the games - especially with Shadow, which is much more concrete - we see that repeated use of the Chaos Emeralds has empowered them over the years.
Sonic Battle specifically notes that Shadow is able to use a number of Chaos techniques without an Emerald, whereas he held onto the green Emerald through most of Adventure 2, and that continues through Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic 06, among others. Also of note: Super Sonic uses Chaos constructs similar to Shadow's Chaos Spear in Frontiers.
I love your videos so much! Keep up the great work!
They should totally make a lore sonic game, where you see him in the childhood and him coping with it as a flashback of his fatigue and tails has to rescue him cause bad guy was waiting for this weakness. And sonic overcomes everything from has former years, so he breaks out of disease and tails and him reunite (after you play tails as a secondary story to reaching sonic) and then then the epic final fight where you take the skills you honed from both characters and destroy the final bad guy
5:14 Mat Pat just doesnt get it. This fishing minigame makes the game a masterpice
Yes without it it’s 1/10
So to simplify, that quote given around 8 minutes is the explanation, we've had it all along and this theory more just spotlights it to everyone that didn't pay attention.
"He's still a mutated Chao, he's just mutated into their ancestors. It's a rollback, but he's still a mutated Chao"
i love how matpatt always destroys my childhood
I have two words for you Matpat: Fleetway. Sonic.
So Sonic broke his own lore and also broke his legs in one game...Jesus can't this guy have a break
but he can catch a break... In the leg eh eh I'll leave now
No
Yes he can have a *break*
_Pun intended*_
He already had 2 breaks lol
i always thought that chao were mutated koco. i mean, we already know the ancient’s souls are infused into the koco, so having the koco themselves mutate into chao and having one of them turn back into how they originally were doesn’t seem that far out.
The koco are the souls of all the ancients that died during the ends attack. At this point they’re just stone (?) holding the old generations soul. There’s no DNA to mutate
The chao are however descendants of the ancients that didn’t die and settled on angel island
@@charismaentertainer1657 yeah, it wasn’t until recently where i thought about it and i was like “hm wait a second” because in all honesty it makes no sense lol
They are
its sort of like the kokos are holders of the ancients souls, sage asks why sonic wants to help them when its already happened, when their fate has already been decided
The Koco turning into Chao through radiation is leagues more likely than the Ancients turning directly into Chao. The Koco and Chao are around the same height and exhibit similar features and behaviors too
I like how he says that Ian Flynn was a writer for the UK fleetway sonic the comic.
5:27 I guess Mat likes waking everyone up with his dialogue.
I find it funny how MatPat is trying his best to make this into an interesting theory... but, well, any actual Sonic fan knows all of this already.
Maybe so, but for those of us who aren't as interested, it's a neat video.
i dont know sonic much so this is new
A channel with over 15M subs isn't just for Sonic fans tho XD
Sonic fans know that this theory makes no sense cuz Archie and Fleetway aren't canon lol
@@negativesymptom1110 I mean the theory does still hold up bc its literally what Ian Flynn said, but the fact that Matpat tried using the non-canon Archie series for proof via inspiration, but failed at that as well because he mixed up Fleetway and Archie lore is... hilarious at best.
Mat, they always had a multiverse in the comics even back in archie, they have scrouge there which you shouldve used for an example of the master emerald mutation too
Being a classic Sonic fan (as is 2D games and the Sonic Adventure games) as well as reading the Archie comics in the 90's (and recognizing Ian Flynn), it makes me want to play Frontiers now. I still have gift cards from Christmas... 😆
What makes this theory more interesting is the inclusion of the battle between Dark and Light Gaia. What if when the ancient race came to the planet the war between Light and Dark Gia was brewing and they created the Gaia temples to help save the planet? That could explain why the emeralds are restored in the Gaia Temples
The tablets int he gaia temples are stated to have been written by humans. The ancients likely came looooong before anything was going on with dark and light gaia
Sonic Unleashed's story is pretty great. Feels like a Disney movie
Same.
Except it isn’t.
For real. The story was never the problem with Sonic Unleashed. In fact the story has NEVER been the problem with 3D sonic games. it's ALWAYS gameplay related stuff like bugs and glitches. the story is almost always great
That's one bare bones Disney movie then. Like 60% of the game features no story progression.
Disney got trashy
I just wanna say that, instead of the ancients turning into Chao, I think they turned into Koco, the koco are like the Walmart version of chao, and the koco are some of the only naturally living creatures on the starfall island
it's literally explained in the game that the kocos are not ancients evolved
matpat make a theory on pikmin like, that would serve a bit.
5:36 Petition for MatPat's 4th channel to be (Video Game) Fishing Theory
Wow, Mat really went "Sonic has had a rough transition to 3D" (shows footage of 06')
This is kind of a shot in the dark but I think the 4th channel teased at 0:56 might be called Super Theory. He said that it’s gonna start with an S, and it you increase the brightness and/or contrast it looks like there’s an S in the logo, akin to Superman’s logo, and then literally right after he makes a joke about going Super Saiyan, and in a video about Thor: Love and Thunder a few months ago MatPat mentioned that he had been going through his backlog of comics. What if that was in preparation for this?
matpat being angry at the slow fishing being in a speed game, but fails to mention you can beat the game entirely by ONLY fishing
The agony of it haha
You have to remember that eggman said that they are "Relatives" so the Koko species could just be an alternate chao. That explains why they look similar, but have some very different features.
They aren’t related to Chao at all, they’re just inanimate objects reanimated by downloading the data of the ancients’ personalities into them.
@@Rusty_Spy but they resemble the chao a lot one could even suggest that the KoKo had some influence on the Ancients’ mutation
@@Notthebloodgod812 they didn’t
They were just charms they used to carry around
@@Rusty_Spy They are related to the chao if we are being honest Chao are decadents of the KoKo or ancients that's why when chaos was mutated from the master emerald he looked exactly like the ancients
@@Comp1ater The Chao are the Ancients after their DNA mutated from exposure to the Master Emerald with the Chaos Emeralds. Which is why when Chaos mutated from a Chao it turns him into an Ancient because it brought out the old DNA through regression. So the Koko are related to the Chao in the same way they were related to the Ancients.
9:54 That’s the Fleetway Comic Series, not Archie. To my knowledge, Ian Flynn had no involvement in that series (but that doesn’t stop the theory that he might have been inspired by it). For the mutant water creature in Fleetway, that was that comic teams way of telling the Sonic Adventure story in that comic series
i believe fleetway was only released in the uk, wish i was alive when they were released lol
"You have escaped cyber space"
Ok Alt Cunningham
I think another great example of the chaos emeralds being used for mutation is sonic unleashed. Egg man straight out uses them to turn sonic into a werehog.
Pretty much describes how wild the Sonic lore is and how much it takes to understand it
Nah he doesn’t know much about sonic game lore according to this video
its really not that hard tbh
Still easier to understand than fnaf lore
It’s really not. It’s nowhere near compilcated much less hard to understand
@@biodock2003 that’s true
Damn Matpat giving a deep Sonic lecture gave me nostalgia
Barely deep. He barely knew what he was talking about
@@kian7406 do you even know what you are talking about?
@@FrankyKenrok th do you fkin mean? do you? cuz if you think he has a grasp on sonic law your factually wrong. Every sonic video he makes shows a misunderstanding of the series.
@@FrankyKenrok The fact that he uses a screenshot of Sonic the Comic and says its the archie comic even though archie comics were US only and Sonic the Comic was made for the UK should be enough, and Ian Flynn didn't write for Sonic the Comic
@@FrankyKenrok he most likely does more than matpat, since he hasn't made a 13 minute long video about something his kid could figure out and that the writers even explained themselves
I want to remind the writers that Sonic went to an alternate universe to kill King Arthur and defeat alternate versions of his friends. You cannot connect all of this.