Thanks for the video, Madeleine! But it's still very hard to love the updated browser. I tried different things, tried saving searches, creating sub-categories, mark my own presets with some special tag but nah, it's all starts to be a mess very fast... So what I decided to do is just create my own structure with folders and saved presets in my User Library (I remember Tom ELPHNT did something like this too). This way I can put the whole folder or even few folders into my Collection or link it to the places and have some structure.
I don't love it out of the box either and making it work for me takes quite a lot of time. Luckily there are several ways we can create our own browser structure. For me, one of the key things is to hide things I don't like at all to reduce the choices I get, plus creating favourites (not sure if in collections or as tags).
Thank you so much for your inspiration and time. 🙏 Still lots to do until it's finished, but it's slowly getting there. Did you make any further changes or did you stick with yours?
I've never used tags in any app I’ve worked with. Polarity Music has a good video about why. The short of it is that most sounds are so context dependent that if you tagged them based on how they were used in that specific project, that specificity wouldn’t translate to another use case. Tagging is one more thing that takes time away from making music imho. Proceed with caution.
I agree that tagging takes time away from music making, but with the new browser in Live 12, I only have chaos and need a way to make it work for me. Whenever I've tried tags, I ended up abandoning them if I had other way to organise data. My own tagging system doesn't use subjective tags that are context dependent. If I'm adding a tag "Glass", then there's only actual glass instruments in it. Or if some clip or sample is tagged with "Arp", it's arpeggiated.
Thanks I appreciate the extra information. I'm baffled why they didn't go with a machine learning analysis plus tagging like Sononym. I'm thinking all this hard work will be redundant soon.. Anyone else have similar thoughts?
Let's hope so, but it's been way over three months since the release and I need to be able to find stuff now and not later. I really don't know why machine learning wasn't included. That's what I expected when I heard of the browser changes.
I hate the tag system so much, i'm so used to use the arrow keys to navigate folders, using a trackpad Is so inconvenient that I cannot use the tag system.... ended up hiding everything except the "ALL'" section in library and use cmd+F to search for everything... if I forgot the name of something, well... guess it wasn't that important
I'm not a fan of tagging either, but it's what we've got now. I hope they might still consider bringing the device folders back. Searching the browser with the keyboard can also be used with tags and key words. Might be worth exploring.
@@sonicbloomtuts I did used the "#" method but it's so bad for my workflow, I know what I have and where it is, but now is just to much clicking for me, if I didn't like Roar as much as I do, i would've switch to Live 11 by now. As a beta tester, I just saw that we can use the folder system in the Plugins sections, let's hope Ableton is going to the direction I think and will let us have both systems and let us choose what we want to use. Thank you so much for the reply, have a great day!
I've gave up on creating subtags because I tried renaming a tag with a pipe in it, but Ableton won't let you do that so I thought it was impossible. Turns out you can create with pipe, but not rename! Apart from that I am sold on the tagging system. Solved a major organisation problem for me
You can rename them as well. In case, it doesn't work for you, try resetting the Library database. I had to do it on both my desktop and laptop after trying out different things. Some things in the browser were just not working as expected. I even had it flicker over and over for a while. The reset fixed all this.
I don’t like to complain because I cannot code and I’m just a user. But I’ve used Live since version 7 and my honest option is that this browser update is horrible. Also Live is great but becoming a bit boring in the way that I looks.
I agree. Luckily we at least get a lot of options for customisation, which is why I made this video. I have huge issues with how the browser was changed in Live 12 out of the box, but I found a way to make it work. With putting in some thought and work.
@sonicbloomtuts Yes likewise. I've made great progress this week organising everything.. but it's annoying that for my plugins I have loads of tags but can't minimize all at once. Alt + Click doesn't work..
All they had to do was allow infinite collection folders instead of 7 (or if not infinite, at least thirty to fifty, lol, as to why that should so hard, I don’t know!), and then give users the option to utilitize the tagging system if they prefer it, as opposed to force everyone to the same workflow. The only issue I ever had with the browser was the collections folders capping out at 7. The tagging system, for me and so many people I know, is just another clutter to weed through. I appreciate some people like it, but that’s why there should be an option.
@@torino1138 You're welcome. Once you put in some work (not that that's what we needed), the Live 12 browser can be quite useful. Out of the box, I still consider it a big mess.
Thanks for the video, Madeleine! But it's still very hard to love the updated browser. I tried different things, tried saving searches, creating sub-categories, mark my own presets with some special tag but nah, it's all starts to be a mess very fast... So what I decided to do is just create my own structure with folders and saved presets in my User Library (I remember Tom ELPHNT did something like this too). This way I can put the whole folder or even few folders into my Collection or link it to the places and have some structure.
I don't love it out of the box either and making it work for me takes quite a lot of time. Luckily there are several ways we can create our own browser structure. For me, one of the key things is to hide things I don't like at all to reduce the choices I get, plus creating favourites (not sure if in collections or as tags).
Hey Madeleine - good to see you found a way to make Live12's Browser work for you!
Thank you so much for your inspiration and time. 🙏
Still lots to do until it's finished, but it's slowly getting there. Did you make any further changes or did you stick with yours?
I've never used tags in any app I’ve worked with. Polarity Music has a good video about why. The short of it is that most sounds are so context dependent that if you tagged them based on how they were used in that specific project, that specificity wouldn’t translate to another use case. Tagging is one more thing that takes time away from making music imho. Proceed with caution.
I agree that tagging takes time away from music making, but with the new browser in Live 12, I only have chaos and need a way to make it work for me. Whenever I've tried tags, I ended up abandoning them if I had other way to organise data. My own tagging system doesn't use subjective tags that are context dependent. If I'm adding a tag "Glass", then there's only actual glass instruments in it. Or if some clip or sample is tagged with "Arp", it's arpeggiated.
Thanks for making this video Madeleine - very helpful!
You're so welcome! 😀
Love the sub tag trick. Learned something new today!
I'm happy to hear it. 🙂
Thanks I appreciate the extra information. I'm baffled why they didn't go with a machine learning analysis plus tagging like Sononym. I'm thinking all this hard work will be redundant soon.. Anyone else have similar thoughts?
Let's hope so, but it's been way over three months since the release and I need to be able to find stuff now and not later. I really don't know why machine learning wasn't included. That's what I expected when I heard of the browser changes.
@@sonicbloomtuts yeah, maybe they tried it and killed cpu.. who knows.
Was für ein cooles Video! Besten Dank!
Gern geschehen. 🙂
@@sonicbloomtuts Dürfen wir hier auch auf Deutsch ein paar Fragen stellen?
@@DennisShinkevich Ja, klar. Ich hab früher auch die Videos auf Deutsch und Englisch gemacht, aber das macht echt viel zu viel Arbeit für eine Person.
Great clips. Thanks Madeleine!
Glad you enjoyed it!
I hate the tag system so much, i'm so used to use the arrow keys to navigate folders, using a trackpad Is so inconvenient that I cannot use the tag system.... ended up hiding everything except the "ALL'" section in library and use cmd+F to search for everything... if I forgot the name of something, well... guess it wasn't that important
I'm not a fan of tagging either, but it's what we've got now. I hope they might still consider bringing the device folders back. Searching the browser with the keyboard can also be used with tags and key words. Might be worth exploring.
@@sonicbloomtuts I did used the "#" method but it's so bad for my workflow, I know what I have and where it is, but now is just to much clicking for me, if I didn't like Roar as much as I do, i would've switch to Live 11 by now.
As a beta tester, I just saw that we can use the folder system in the Plugins sections, let's hope Ableton is going to the direction I think and will let us have both systems and let us choose what we want to use.
Thank you so much for the reply, have a great day!
I've gave up on creating subtags because I tried renaming a tag with a pipe in it, but Ableton won't let you do that so I thought it was impossible. Turns out you can create with pipe, but not rename! Apart from that I am sold on the tagging system. Solved a major organisation problem for me
You can rename them as well. In case, it doesn't work for you, try resetting the Library database. I had to do it on both my desktop and laptop after trying out different things. Some things in the browser were just not working as expected. I even had it flicker over and over for a while. The reset fixed all this.
@@sonicbloomtuts thanks much for the reply. I just deleted and recreated =) Resetting sounds scarily like I would have to retag everything... NOOOOO!
I don’t like to complain because I cannot code and I’m just a user. But I’ve used Live since version 7 and my honest option is that this browser update is horrible. Also Live is great but becoming a bit boring in the way that I looks.
I agree. Luckily we at least get a lot of options for customisation, which is why I made this video. I have huge issues with how the browser was changed in Live 12 out of the box, but I found a way to make it work. With putting in some thought and work.
@sonicbloomtuts Yes likewise. I've made great progress this week organising everything.. but it's annoying that for my plugins I have loads of tags but can't minimize all at once. Alt + Click doesn't work..
I personally appreciate that honesty 🤷♂️
if only tagging and collections would work together ...
It does.
Thank you 😂🎉
All they had to do was allow infinite collection folders instead of 7 (or if not infinite, at least thirty to fifty, lol, as to why that should so hard, I don’t know!), and then give users the option to utilitize the tagging system if they prefer it, as opposed to force everyone to the same workflow.
The only issue I ever had with the browser was the collections folders capping out at 7.
The tagging system, for me and so many people I know, is just another clutter to weed through. I appreciate some people like it, but that’s why there should be an option.
@@torino1138 You're welcome. Once you put in some work (not that that's what we needed), the Live 12 browser can be quite useful. Out of the box, I still consider it a big mess.
The browser is rather embarrassing, considering we are a quarter into the 21st century.