Wow Roy is just salty all round, salty while leading salty when he loses. Seems like it would be a real chore playing with him. Mike as a first timer made a great play and had a great gameplan and a well deserved wins.
Roy was really insufferable in this. Normally I enjoy him, but I was glad everyone called him out. He was alpha gaming hard, and it was not enjoyable. Otherwise the video was fun. I really enjoy Mike! Good for him!
Yikes indeed 40 minutes in and it's like "bro - please just shut it" tbh. It's crazy to be BOTH constantly alpha gaming AND asking for constant rules clarifications/hunting for rule sharking (which he never got, because Tom knows the rules pretty good... just a few misses the whole game). That kind of behavior is the kind of thing that gets people to literally hate Cosmic Encounter - the game is so contingent on how fun the group is. I get "it's a negotiation game" like he kept yelling every time he got called out for alpha gaming - talking is a big part of the game, for sure - but telling every other person what to do EVERY PHASE of EVERY TURN, then second guessing them EVERY TIME they do something you didn't personally present - sure you might be within your rights to do it - but it's ineffective, alienating (LOL), AND expressly unfun. Misrepresenting the nature of the game "it's a cooperative game" and trying to shoehorn people into your desired endgame when they're new players? New players don't need a constant stream of misinformation for the duration of their first play of an hour+ game. You need to do like Tom does - describe POSSIBLE outcomes and actions, but not "drive the ship". Nobody is ever going to have fun with the game if they aren't allowed to play on their own terms. Really embarrassing behavior. Also go Mike!
Weird. I felt that Tom was heavy gatekeeping here, and Roy was just responding to him. (EDIT) THOUGH, the persistence was a bit much on Roy's part. I like to think he has grown from this video.
@@VexylObby I don't understand how you suggest Tom is gatekeeping. He was teaching the game to new players, giving sound advice even when it was to his own expense and trying to keep Roy in check while honestly saying he wanted to win solo if possible. Roy had the energy of a communist revolutionary telling everyone they can all win equally but in the most controlling way possible and no matter the cost(can't say for sure if he was planning a double cross but even if he wasn't I would rather lose playing my own way than tolerate that at a game table). Also it's not simply a negotiating game, that's just one aspect and constantly telling people what to do isn't negotiation. Only thing that I kinda wish Tom had done is just let the powers be chosen randomly or if he's curating not included Loser as I think that created some confusing situations for a first playthrough, especially the metagame loserception with Pacifist.
@@zacdredge3859 I'd have to watch the video again. But iirc, Tom felt too much like a person that knew their game so well and had to make sure everybody else knew it. We all know people like that. They act like they have to prove their knowledge of a game. Also, no need to bring up weird political analogies...
The loser wins thing was played wrong right at the beginning. It says you must use an attack card if possible. He can’t use a negotiate card unless he has no attack cards which I find hard to believe on the first round
I love cosmic and watching tom play our favorite game is always great! some minor things though. it looks like you are playing the Loser wrong... after Upset both players must play attack cards if they can. they cant play Negotiation if they have an attack. and another thing, You can't use a cosmic zap on a squash deal, only a card zap, not sure if thats what happened because i couldn't see the card itself but it sounded like it was a cosmic zap. I am happy to see you caught that mistake with Mike taking his ships back from the warp. He did win fair and square. (my only time winning with the masochist i used plague on myself to win). Thank you the dice tower for this. please play more cosmic
Mike's situation is so hilarious through out the entire thing, especially if you don't know the context. Constantly you hear them say "You just want to die!" and "You just want to lose". 1:04:16 was especially funny lol.
Well done, Mike! Masochist is a tough one but you pulled it off! Yes, if his ships have no colony to return to at the end of an encounter, the ships go to the Warp. If a player has no ships available at the start of their next encounter, the ship they retrieve from the Warp during Regroup goes directly onto the Hyperspace Gate/Cone. So, Mike wins his first Cosmic by alien trickery! That was a lot of fun, guys! Thanks for sharing this!
@@HashStrid When you return ships back from an encounter, they must return to one of your "colonies". A colony is a stack of 1 or more ships on a planet. So, even though his planets are available and empty, if he has no ships on them, he has no "colonies" there. Therefore, when his ships try to return to colonies, they have no colonies to return to and thus go to the Warp. It's an important distinction between a "home planet" and a "home colony". The only way to get ships back onto one of your empty planets is if you draw your own Destiny color on your turn.
I feel like Lindsey was given incorrect information about her race here. Several times I heard it mention that “if the opponent plays a negotiate…”, however players *must* play an attack card if able. Granted, I don’t know what was in the players’ hands, but I feel that really should have been pointed out.
I read the cards and understand what you mean now. I agree with you. It will be interesting to see if he plays an attack after playing that negotiation and thereby missplay on the very first battle.
1:03:00 It's confusing to state you get to draw a new hand of cards "if you need to play an encounter card but don't have any" as it only applies if you're the defender. If you're an offense and it's nothing but the very start of your turn, you don't, and your turn end right away.
It is confusing if not explained properly. It's important to distinguish between Offence and Defence and to note in which phase you draw your new hand. As the Defence, if you don't have an Encounter card during the Planning phase, you draw a new hand. As the Offence, if it is your first Encounter and you don't have an Encounter card, you draw a new hand. If you already had 1 successful Encounter and at the start of your 2nd Encounter you don't have any Encounter cards, you may not draw a new hand and you may not have a 2nd Encounter and it's the next player's turn. Then, if you have only 1 Encounter card at the start of your turn but for some reason lose it before you get to play it during Planning phase(due to an Alien power) your turn immediately ends and it is the next player's turn.
SPOILERS: I love this game for the sheer fact that Mike was able to win with his alternate win condition with the mix of using a card in a way it obviously isn't normally intended (plaguing himself was clutch), and the chaos of all sorts of abilities mixing. Especially as it was his first play. A lot of fun!
@@HashStrid yes, if I recall, you lose your power if you don't have 3 home planets, or something like that - but can get it back. It's been a while, so it might not be exactly how it works
I understand the flak Roy is getting in the comments for how he acted during the match, but I do think this behavior was intentional and wasn't actual alpha-gamer (plays the game for you) behavior. He mentioned this is one of his fav games that he has a lot of time in with another group, and I think this explains a lot of how he acted, but doesn't excuse bringing that energy and attitude to first-timers. After a group has played many times, you can develop more nuance with deception and one valid strategy that emerges is the Coordinator (made-up term). They play like they are just your guide trying to make sure you make optimal plays, but truly they only key you into optimal plays that benefit them. They'll have opinions on everyone's turns and possible actions. To another experienced player who can recognize optimal plays without help and can sniff out deception (especially if they are in the same long-term group) these constant needling doubts and suggestions from the Coordinator actually provide useful clues about exactly what the Coordinator wants to win. The major mistake he made was bringing the playstyle he used with his group to this match where people are being taught. It's like throwing a kid into the deep end to teach them how to swim. Thankfully and to his credit he does relax and plays much more reserved and gives room for the others to think and act on their turns. He still plays this way on his turn, which I think should be ok, it is after-all his turn.
Unfortunately, I never got Cosmic to work with any group. It's niche - expert gamers beer and prezel game - means Casual gamers I tried it with and are interested in a social experience are put of by the complexity (and can't evaluate what cards could possibly be in play), and my expert gamers group(s) find it to random and a bit bloated, preffering classic Area Control or a Deduction game. I hope I'll get behind the secret why this is so beloved by Dice Tower and Shut up and Sit Down, it still sits on my shelf with all expansions.
I've had the same problem. I love the game so much but I can't get it played to save my life. I'm the Boss does the negotiation just as well without the complexity but it is missing the variety that this game gives you.
I'm so lucky that my large family enjoys this game. I taught it and it started lack-luster, but they played it again without me! But it is a weird one that is definitely not for everyone.
For us it works well because even if it has randomness, the strategies change every game! It's chaotic but the skill is guiding that chaos, ideally without anyone else noticing. Also it's important to have everyone playing be talkative and engaged in trying to win.
There are some superficial similarities to Munchkin (Munchkin was clearly inspired in-part by Cosmic) but there are some very important distinctions which drastically change how the game works. While Munchkin often suffers from the "dog pile the leader" mindset that drags the game on forever, Cosmic subverts this with at least three very important elements: 1) the Destiny deck, which forces the players to constantly re-assess their past, present and future relationships, 2) the ability to Negotiate to subvert the traditional head-to-head conflict when necessary or strategically important, and 3) the potential for shared-victory, which by its very existence causes the players to be more deliberate and crafty about their plays, instead of just treating each other as punching bags at every opportunity. And, of course, there are the Alien Powers which drastically reinvent the dynamic of each session by how fundamental some of their changes feel to the flow of play. I used to be a fan of Munchkin because I enjoyed the silliness of it combined with the very social and confrontational nature of the game. When I properly discovered Cosmic Encounter, I realized that (for me, anyway) it was a game that offered everything Munchkin did but more and in a package that was far more cleverly designed. Munchkin is silly and chaotic. Cosmic is silly, chaotic, intricate, subtle and clever.
@@Webhead123 2 of the three elements u discussed are in munchkin (shared victory, and negotiation.) I didn't say the games were exactly the same, but I do believe they are very very similar. I don't disagree cosmic is a superior game. To your first point (dog pile) this can happen in cosmic as well to some degree, when possible, by intentionally playing so the person with the most points is mostly effected, again if possible. But again I am not disagreeing cosmic does everything better. It's just funny to me that Tom HATES munchkin for some of the same reasons he LOVES cosmic.
@@thereal4579 Fair enough, although I think Cosmic makes those elements much more defined as part of the dynamic of play. The devil's in the details, I suppose. I probably give Munchkin a little more credit than Tom does, mostly because I had a group of friends who got quite a bit of mindless enjoyment out of it back in the early 00's. I only wish I had known about Cosmic back then, because as much fun as we had with Munchkin at that time, Cosmic would have blown our minds. Today, I'd give Munchkin a 5/10 because it's just kind of a middle-of-the-road filler with some problematic design choices. Meanwhile, Cosmic is a straight 10 for me, as a game that truly has no contemporary equivalent to how it feels to play and what it offers the players in social dynamic.
I don't disagree with any of that, I also give munchkin a 5/10, but a 5/10 I will always happily play with the right group. Fun memories and incredible clutch moments. I own cosmic with 2 Expansions but have not had it hit the table yet :/, but have watched a few play through's and see it is a game I definitely want to experience.
We played the original by Eon with the expansion for years. Moons and flares, along with two powers. I always found getting the Macron and the Machine as a combo was unstoppable.
I liked the video because I enjoyed it.. however if there was a dislike button just for Roy I would press it. He was annoying. He likes the sound of his own voice too much.
I really like this game and want to get it to the table but explaining everything takes super long and I feel like if you don't people get surprised by rules and grt frustrated
While I dislike roys strategy, i think he is absolutely in the right to play the way he wants to. Its not a coop game, him alphagaming is not a problem. You dont want to, you dont have to do what he Tella you to do, and not doing it may even be better for you. So...
Wow Roy is just salty all round, salty while leading salty when he loses. Seems like it would be a real chore playing with him.
Mike as a first timer made a great play and had a great gameplan and a well deserved wins.
Roy was really insufferable in this. Normally I enjoy him, but I was glad everyone called him out. He was alpha gaming hard, and it was not enjoyable.
Otherwise the video was fun. I really enjoy Mike! Good for him!
Yikes indeed 40 minutes in and it's like "bro - please just shut it" tbh. It's crazy to be BOTH constantly alpha gaming AND asking for constant rules clarifications/hunting for rule sharking (which he never got, because Tom knows the rules pretty good... just a few misses the whole game).
That kind of behavior is the kind of thing that gets people to literally hate Cosmic Encounter - the game is so contingent on how fun the group is.
I get "it's a negotiation game" like he kept yelling every time he got called out for alpha gaming - talking is a big part of the game, for sure - but telling every other person what to do EVERY PHASE of EVERY TURN, then second guessing them EVERY TIME they do something you didn't personally present - sure you might be within your rights to do it - but it's ineffective, alienating (LOL), AND expressly unfun. Misrepresenting the nature of the game "it's a cooperative game" and trying to shoehorn people into your desired endgame when they're new players? New players don't need a constant stream of misinformation for the duration of their first play of an hour+ game. You need to do like Tom does - describe POSSIBLE outcomes and actions, but not "drive the ship". Nobody is ever going to have fun with the game if they aren't allowed to play on their own terms. Really embarrassing behavior.
Also go Mike!
Weird. I felt that Tom was heavy gatekeeping here, and Roy was just responding to him.
(EDIT) THOUGH, the persistence was a bit much on Roy's part. I like to think he has grown from this video.
@@VexylObby I don't understand how you suggest Tom is gatekeeping. He was teaching the game to new players, giving sound advice even when it was to his own expense and trying to keep Roy in check while honestly saying he wanted to win solo if possible.
Roy had the energy of a communist revolutionary telling everyone they can all win equally but in the most controlling way possible and no matter the cost(can't say for sure if he was planning a double cross but even if he wasn't I would rather lose playing my own way than tolerate that at a game table). Also it's not simply a negotiating game, that's just one aspect and constantly telling people what to do isn't negotiation.
Only thing that I kinda wish Tom had done is just let the powers be chosen randomly or if he's curating not included Loser as I think that created some confusing situations for a first playthrough, especially the metagame loserception with Pacifist.
@@zacdredge3859 I'd have to watch the video again. But iirc, Tom felt too much like a person that knew their game so well and had to make sure everybody else knew it. We all know people like that. They act like they have to prove their knowledge of a game.
Also, no need to bring up weird political analogies...
Yeah. I would never play this game with Roy after watching this. Quit trying to force your desire to not win on everyone else. Jesus.
well played mike. champion! just got this game, played once, immediately bought incursions expansion! that's getting played 6 player tomorrow!
The loser wins thing was played wrong right at the beginning. It says you must use an attack card if possible. He can’t use a negotiate card unless he has no attack cards which I find hard to believe on the first round
They did it wrong more than once, poor Lindsay :(
He did play it wrong, he then attacked the other dude on the same turn
I love cosmic and watching tom play our favorite game is always great!
some minor things though.
it looks like you are playing the Loser wrong...
after Upset both players must play attack cards if they can. they cant play Negotiation if they have an attack.
and another thing,
You can't use a cosmic zap on a squash deal, only a card zap, not sure if thats what happened because i couldn't see the card itself but it sounded like it was a cosmic zap.
I am happy to see you caught that mistake with Mike taking his ships back from the warp.
He did win fair and square.
(my only time winning with the masochist i used plague on myself to win).
Thank you the dice tower for this. please play more cosmic
Mike's situation is so hilarious through out the entire thing, especially if you don't know the context. Constantly you hear them say "You just want to die!" and "You just want to lose". 1:04:16 was especially funny lol.
Well done, Mike! Masochist is a tough one but you pulled it off! Yes, if his ships have no colony to return to at the end of an encounter, the ships go to the Warp. If a player has no ships available at the start of their next encounter, the ship they retrieve from the Warp during Regroup goes directly onto the Hyperspace Gate/Cone. So, Mike wins his first Cosmic by alien trickery! That was a lot of fun, guys! Thanks for sharing this!
What im confusd about is the fact that he could have returned them to his plants, he hadnt lost all his planets, they were just empty
@@HashStrid When you return ships back from an encounter, they must return to one of your "colonies". A colony is a stack of 1 or more ships on a planet. So, even though his planets are available and empty, if he has no ships on them, he has no "colonies" there. Therefore, when his ships try to return to colonies, they have no colonies to return to and thus go to the Warp. It's an important distinction between a "home planet" and a "home colony". The only way to get ships back onto one of your empty planets is if you draw your own Destiny color on your turn.
I just picked this up. Cant wait to play!
Tell us what you think! The good, the bad, the ugly...
@@CosmicEncounter I will have too! I haven't got it to the table yet but hopefully soon!
Would have preferred Jason in the far right seat. Never thought I'd say that
I feel like Lindsey was given incorrect information about her race here. Several times I heard it mention that “if the opponent plays a negotiate…”, however players *must* play an attack card if able. Granted, I don’t know what was in the players’ hands, but I feel that really should have been pointed out.
I'm not seeing that in the rule book.
I read the cards and understand what you mean now. I agree with you. It will be interesting to see if he plays an attack after playing that negotiation and thereby missplay on the very first battle.
I believe that he did in fact missplay. If I followed everything properly
1:03:00
It's confusing to state you get to draw a new hand of cards "if you need to play an encounter card but don't have any" as it only applies if you're the defender.
If you're an offense and it's nothing but the very start of your turn, you don't, and your turn end right away.
It is confusing if not explained properly. It's important to distinguish between Offence and Defence and to note in which phase you draw your new hand.
As the Defence, if you don't have an Encounter card during the Planning phase, you draw a new hand.
As the Offence, if it is your first Encounter and you don't have an Encounter card, you draw a new hand. If you already had 1 successful Encounter and at the start of your 2nd Encounter you don't have any Encounter cards, you may not draw a new hand and you may not have a 2nd Encounter and it's the next player's turn.
Then, if you have only 1 Encounter card at the start of your turn but for some reason lose it before you get to play it during Planning phase(due to an Alien power) your turn immediately ends and it is the next player's turn.
SPOILERS:
I love this game for the sheer fact that Mike was able to win with his alternate win condition with the mix of using a card in a way it obviously isn't normally intended (plaguing himself was clutch), and the chaos of all sorts of abilities mixing. Especially as it was his first play. A lot of fun!
What im confusd about is the fact that he could have returned them to his plants, he hadnt lost all his planets, they were just empty
@@HashStrid a home planet you don't have anyone on is considered "lost" - they don't have to be taken by another alien.
@@bricelory9534 i see, so that effects you losing your alien power too?
@@HashStrid yes, if I recall, you lose your power if you don't have 3 home planets, or something like that - but can get it back. It's been a while, so it might not be exactly how it works
Way to stick it to Roy😉, well done Mike!
I understand the flak Roy is getting in the comments for how he acted during the match, but I do think this behavior was intentional and wasn't actual alpha-gamer (plays the game for you) behavior. He mentioned this is one of his fav games that he has a lot of time in with another group, and I think this explains a lot of how he acted, but doesn't excuse bringing that energy and attitude to first-timers. After a group has played many times, you can develop more nuance with deception and one valid strategy that emerges is the Coordinator (made-up term). They play like they are just your guide trying to make sure you make optimal plays, but truly they only key you into optimal plays that benefit them. They'll have opinions on everyone's turns and possible actions. To another experienced player who can recognize optimal plays without help and can sniff out deception (especially if they are in the same long-term group) these constant needling doubts and suggestions from the Coordinator actually provide useful clues about exactly what the Coordinator wants to win.
The major mistake he made was bringing the playstyle he used with his group to this match where people are being taught. It's like throwing a kid into the deep end to teach them how to swim. Thankfully and to his credit he does relax and plays much more reserved and gives room for the others to think and act on their turns. He still plays this way on his turn, which I think should be ok, it is after-all his turn.
Hey Tom, any chance you could show/tell the list of aliens you used for this one? Would be great to introduce people to cosmic.
I second this motion
Unfortunately, I never got Cosmic to work with any group. It's niche - expert gamers beer and prezel game - means Casual gamers I tried it with and are interested in a social experience are put of by the complexity (and can't evaluate what cards could possibly be in play), and my expert gamers group(s) find it to random and a bit bloated, preffering classic Area Control or a Deduction game. I hope I'll get behind the secret why this is so beloved by Dice Tower and Shut up and Sit Down, it still sits on my shelf with all expansions.
I've had the same problem. I love the game so much but I can't get it played to save my life. I'm the Boss does the negotiation just as well without the complexity but it is missing the variety that this game gives you.
I'm so lucky that my large family enjoys this game. I taught it and it started lack-luster, but they played it again without me! But it is a weird one that is definitely not for everyone.
For us it works well because even if it has randomness, the strategies change every game! It's chaotic but the skill is guiding that chaos, ideally without anyone else noticing. Also it's important to have everyone playing be talkative and engaged in trying to win.
I played this game with people who don't really play board games (and two introverts), and they loved it. Mileage may vary?
The LOSER say: "both main players MUST use attack cards, if possible". On the firs turn the guy use a Negotiate card.
Because of the nature of the game with timing and powers would you recommend no take backs for new players?
for someone who hates munchkin....this reminds me alot of munchkin....
There are some superficial similarities to Munchkin (Munchkin was clearly inspired in-part by Cosmic) but there are some very important distinctions which drastically change how the game works. While Munchkin often suffers from the "dog pile the leader" mindset that drags the game on forever, Cosmic subverts this with at least three very important elements: 1) the Destiny deck, which forces the players to constantly re-assess their past, present and future relationships, 2) the ability to Negotiate to subvert the traditional head-to-head conflict when necessary or strategically important, and 3) the potential for shared-victory, which by its very existence causes the players to be more deliberate and crafty about their plays, instead of just treating each other as punching bags at every opportunity. And, of course, there are the Alien Powers which drastically reinvent the dynamic of each session by how fundamental some of their changes feel to the flow of play.
I used to be a fan of Munchkin because I enjoyed the silliness of it combined with the very social and confrontational nature of the game. When I properly discovered Cosmic Encounter, I realized that (for me, anyway) it was a game that offered everything Munchkin did but more and in a package that was far more cleverly designed. Munchkin is silly and chaotic. Cosmic is silly, chaotic, intricate, subtle and clever.
@@Webhead123 2 of the three elements u discussed are in munchkin (shared victory, and negotiation.) I didn't say the games were exactly the same, but I do believe they are very very similar. I don't disagree cosmic is a superior game. To your first point (dog pile) this can happen in cosmic as well to some degree, when possible, by intentionally playing so the person with the most points is mostly effected, again if possible. But again I am not disagreeing cosmic does everything better. It's just funny to me that Tom HATES munchkin for some of the same reasons he LOVES cosmic.
@@thereal4579 Fair enough, although I think Cosmic makes those elements much more defined as part of the dynamic of play. The devil's in the details, I suppose. I probably give Munchkin a little more credit than Tom does, mostly because I had a group of friends who got quite a bit of mindless enjoyment out of it back in the early 00's. I only wish I had known about Cosmic back then, because as much fun as we had with Munchkin at that time, Cosmic would have blown our minds. Today, I'd give Munchkin a 5/10 because it's just kind of a middle-of-the-road filler with some problematic design choices. Meanwhile, Cosmic is a straight 10 for me, as a game that truly has no contemporary equivalent to how it feels to play and what it offers the players in social dynamic.
I don't disagree with any of that, I also give munchkin a 5/10, but a 5/10 I will always happily play with the right group. Fun memories and incredible clutch moments. I own cosmic with 2 Expansions but have not had it hit the table yet :/, but have watched a few play through's and see it is a game I definitely want to experience.
This is such a good game. I need to get the rest of the expansions...
We played the original by Eon with the expansion for years. Moons and flares, along with two powers. I always found getting the Macron and the Machine as a combo was unstoppable.
I just played a game of cosmic encounters on Sunday where the virus was part of a three way tie.
I liked the video because I enjoyed it.. however if there was a dislike button just for Roy I would press it. He was annoying. He likes the sound of his own voice too much.
Just like you.
The Roy school of negotiating… brow-beat them into submission!!!
I really like this game and want to get it to the table but explaining everything takes super long and I feel like if you don't people get surprised by rules and grt frustrated
What the hell, a parasite that doesn't invite himself to every attack...?
Go, Ancient Mike!
I want to try this game.
Finaly love this playtrough ;D
Wow, the explainer was pretty salty when he lost!
Mike should have regrouped one ship before the start of his turn though, no?
It had no colonies to return to.
While I dislike roys strategy, i think he is absolutely in the right to play the way he wants to. Its not a coop game, him alphagaming is not a problem. You dont want to, you dont have to do what he Tella you to do, and not doing it may even be better for you. So...
Hilarious! Nice job Mike !!
Honestly the lady that played the loser did it so wrong it hurts 😂
Oh Man, I would never play this game with Roy. How much more annoying could he get?